because there s so much destruction and so many other things going on. steve, last thought on this. yes, the reason that didn t get more publicity, it got quite a lot, is firstly because as you say he s not well known, the minister who resigned, but also because this whole saga over whether a prime minister broke his own rules and then lied about it is accessible and is significant. i m one of those who thinks these things can be overplayed at times, but not this one. so yes, the four billion is another story. it was quite widely reported actually, and the speech in the house of lords he gave as he resigned was scathing. and there are still implications i think for rishi sunak and the treasury about all of this. but rishi sunak, the chancellor, is keeping a very low profile at the moment. for all sorts of reasons! thank you, steve. now, behind the drumbeat of war, did we just hear the faint sound of brakes being applied? on thursday, the united states rejected russia s central demand t
his security concerns, including his request that ukraine would neverjoin nato. a phone call between the british prime minister borisjohnson, who s on a visit to kyiv, and mr putin is due to take place later on wednesday. we can now speak to peter zalmayev, who s director of the eurasia democracy initiative. he joins us from kyiv. good to see you again. since we last talked, there has been high levels of diplomacy with several western leaders either visiting kyiv or on the phone to vladimir putin. the latest is the uk prime minister, boris johnson, your thoughts on his presence now in conversation later with the russian president? later with the russian resident? ., later with the russian resident? , president? boris johnson visit is happening president? boris johnson visit is happening with president? boris johnson visit is happening with the - is happening with the background of a total of 80 high level visitors of dignitaries from international organisations and western leade
always clear to the average onlooker what to present putin actually wants. how great is the danger, there are too many cooks in this mix. somebody might give something away that one of the other allies doesn t want. away that one of the other allies doesn t want. . ., ., , doesn t want. there aren t that many cooks. doesn t want. there aren t that many cooks- the doesn t want. there aren t that many cooks- the key doesn t want. there aren t that many cooks. the key people doesn t want. there aren t that many cooks. the key people are doesn t want. there aren t that many cooks. the key people are biden - doesn t want. there aren t that many cooks. the key people are biden and| cooks. the key people are biden and biden. the other players are a bit part, including our own, biden. the other players are a bit part, including ourown, i m biden. the other players are a bit part, including our own, i m afraid. but there is scope for compromise. the russians have demanded that ukrain
russian backed separatists in the donbass, were roughly 14,000 people have died, they have seen cyber attacks and warfare, they have roughly 100,000 combat troops all around their borders and almost every side, including to the west. and occupied crimea. the best way to de escalate this is for the russian soldiers to return to their bases and make clear, in a believable way with their actions, that there won t be another russian military invasion of ukraine. i suppose the question invasion of ukraine. i suppose the question is invasion of ukraine. i suppose the question is their invasion of ukraine. i suppose the question is their how - invasion of ukraine. i suppose the question is their how can l the question is their how can president putin do that without losing face? do you have an idea what his end game really is with this holder buckle that has been happening over the past few weeks in particular debacle? i past few weeks in particular debacle? ~ , ., , ., debacle? i
that we are seeing regarding these talks, and president zelensky made the point last night again when he pointed out that they are aware, they have been aware for a long time, that ukraine might neverjoin nato. time, that ukraine might never “oin nato. , , ., time, that ukraine might never “oin nato. , ., ., nato. yes, you are right, and he has said this before, nato. yes, you are right, and he has said this before, he nato. yes, you are right, and he has said this before, he has nato. yes, you are right, and he has said this before, he has talked - said this before, he has talked about a cooling of the idea of joining and he previously called it a dream, and he has now said ukrainians need to realise that the doors to nato are closed, so he has continually inched away from the idea ofjoining, and we have seen more and more prominent ukrainian politicians come up with their own proposals for ukraine to form new alliances. the uk was named as one where it was described as a nu