and self-defense groups protecting protesters from government violence who are, you know, patrolling streets and working in some places with the local police, in some places the police have disappeared because they were part of the repressive mechanism, but basically there s no one systematically capable of challenging the people in power. and certainly the military is on board. the security service has a new leader. there s a new minister of the interior. he has purged all the intermediate people who were associated with the violence. and a new chain of command is being put together. so it is a little bit of a, you know, transitional and bumpy ride. but they are well on the path after such a turbulent period and the collapse of an entire system which had ruled as a very authoritarian and tightly controlled system. we re moving toward the consolidation of power of these people. and i think one thing i want to point out is that yes, western europe and europe and the united states have r
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europe and the united states ante up the money to support the ukrainian change in power? and i think those are the questions that are uncomfortable to ask. it s easy to say democracy is flaming ahead. but there are a lot of expenses and bills to be paid, and i think russia s going to be a very, very tough neighbor. adrian, how does the russian government see the stakes in this? well, i think the russians were very close to wooing and wrenching ukraine out of the european orbit and putting it within its own. and the people basically spoke. the people stood up. these protests really started after mr. yanukovych reversed course on a path to association with the european union. and that was what provoked the initial wave of protests. and they accelerated after there was of course a lot of repression. but the point is mr. putin is i think angry, frustrated. he was on a roll. he was on a roll in syria. he was on a roll with his sort of iran policy. he was exerting a lot of clout
today russian prime minister dimitri medvedev told reporters the legitimacy of a whole number of organs of power that function there raises great doubts. some of our foreign western partners think otherwise. this is some kind of aberration of perception when people call legitimate what is essentially the result of an armed mutiny. we do not understand what is going on there. there is a real threat to our interests and to the lives of our citizens. joining me now are steve clemens, washington editor at large for the atlantic and an msnbc contributor and adrian karatnitsky, a senior fellow at the atlantic council. adrian is also a managing partner for the mirandum group, which advises companies looking to enter the ukraine. steve clemens, a lot has happened since we last met on this subject. very fast-moving situation. where do you think it stands now, and can this government that s kind of holding on at the
bloodshed. ukraine s parliament voted to remove yanukovych from power. the deposed leader fled kiev on friday. leaving the capital of kiev on friday. an arrest warrant has been issued for him. he is not actively leading the country at present. now back in independence square. it has been filled with flowers. explosions and molotov cocktails have been supplanted now by the glow of candles. people coming here all day identify their respects. russia and the u.s. are both doing a bit of saber rattling. russia s leaders entered the fray. an ominous reaction from russia this morning criticizing the west for recognizing the new government. we do believe that parliament has lawfully elected its new speaker. this is not about the u.s. and russia. there has to be? type of stability. a revolution has taken place. parliament is taking charge. ukraine s president was driven out of office and into hiding over the weekend.