not gonna be any political political trump, we ve seen that, very clear. but any kind of legal blowback and whether or not the justice department under merrick garland is going to do something after these hearings and during their own investigation. and they re not feelings are hopeful that that s going to see that. because they know that merrick garland is trying to see unplug of size, someone who is not a part of that process. and trying to say above the frame. there s a concern about whether there s gonna be any rough occasions and then you have the concern, there s a political blow back, there s illegal blow back for some of these folks. including donald j trump. what does that say for the next time someone wants to do this because we re seeing, this is not stopping. and it s continuing. and it s a present danger to the state, democracy. and tim, in the less than a minute that we have left at this part of the conversation. let me ask you a question i asked matthew dowd. about t
testify. in reality, is there any consequence anymore to defying a congressional subpoena? well, it really depends on whether or not the justice department under merrick garland and joe biden want to take the next step. i mean, being held in contempt of congress is something that has it happens in this country. politicians refuse to respond to subpoenas from congress and get held in contempt of congress and it doesn t really mean anything beyond that. but beyond that, there are steps that the justice department could take if they wanted to theoretically attempt to charge any of these individuals with obstruction of justice or obstruction of congress. there are there is a criminal path for this, that is the question as to whether or not the biden administration wants to go down that path. and whether or not the committee, the bipartisan committee wants to go down that path.
you can t just be like, whew, glad they are all out of here. let s make sure we behave differently now. i mean, you have got to come clean what happened. tell the truth. find the guilty parties. name them. give them a chance to defend themselves and explain themselves, yes. but there has to be some accountability, or this stuff just happens, again. and we are starting to learn it. and it is hideous. um, and some of the worst of it has been revealed over these past couple of weeks, while i was trying to learn to catch striped bass from the shore. don t worry, they were all safe from me. first, we get the justice department under merrick garland advising trump s last attorney general and his last deputy attorney general and other senior officials from trump s last days that they are, in fact, allowed to testify in congress, for congress s ongoing investigations into how trump tried to overturn the election results and stay in power. so justice department okayed former trump officials te
trump continue to the challenge the oversight powers. he lost the election. shortly after he lost the supreme court case. in february this year, the supreme court allowed manhattan prosecutors to obtain trump s taxes. so they have it. earlier this month the top money man were charged with tax fraud in manhattan court. today, however, the ways and means committee finally got movement on their year s-long quest. the justice department under merrick garland says his tax returns must be released to congress soon. they could potentially be made public. a national complil reporter has been tracking these developments and jones me now. betsy, my understanding it s the supreme court the office of legal department gives legal direction that basically that office overturned a previous set of guidance that was offered during the trump administration. is that right? that s right. when trump s lawyers were in
white house communications for all messages that it has related to the final days of the white house. i don t think we ve seen the end of new revelations coming out of those final weeks. what do we know given you follow the justice department, there s information that the treasury department should hand over donald trump s tax returns that the houses committee has been getting at. is that likely to happen? what happens next? ways and means has sued for these documents and the government under trump has said they don t want to hand them over. the justice department under merrick garland said, yes, indeed, congress and the committee made a reasonable request for the documents and the treasury should turn them over. we also heard from the administration that the treasury will turn them over. it s basically all sides going to court and agreeing on next steps. you could see the former president sue in order to stop