knows, and that hasn t led t an indictment yet. so really interesting to see what is coming out here. dan, before i have to switc over to the next guest, i will say, though, you and i hav tried cases involving flips as a prosecutor i had flipped codefendants, an i will say to your crimina defense attorney perspective who better to know who was involved in the crime that tha flip codefendant who actuall participated michael cohen said he acted at the behest of and direction of former president donald trum when he made that payment. then evolves, my friend, thank you for joining us for thi breaking news. and finally joining me now, i pleased to have representative sean casten, member of the house financial services committee. he was also one of the first democrats to call for former president trump s impeachment, representative, kind of a wild morning. i know it wasn t exactly wha you and i were planning on talking about this morning, bu i appreciate you being here. i did want to get
i told them to shoot 100 rounds, another one that is referenced is from bad boy with a line, one of the lines that was highlighted, i shot at his mommy, now he no longer mentioned me. so in all, the indictment references, i believe, nine songs over the span of seven years. the lyrics are very specific. is that enough, though, to point to lyrics and say, this guy played a role? it should not be. and when i say that, it is an evidentiary question. good morning to you, erica. listen, cases and trials have to be about specific facts. they can t be about art. they can t be about artistic expression. they can t be about whether or not a rap artist used a certain lyrics and from a defense attorney perspective, we hate this. make your case about witnesses, about corroboration, about the listings, about specific statements that are made by others, about good police work, not about what an artist chooses to say in a specific album or not. and whether or not that is artistic expression or wheth
but it s certainly a shirt that indicates what s on his mind. in any event, in addition to that, you have this child that s now dead. what is also confusing from even a defense attorney perspective is it is plausible and oftentimes likely in the case, alison, where a prosecutor charges for a crime, even the underlying dwi and then they later upgrade the charges. in this particular case, i think the issue is what do you do with the viable fetus who was unborn? i looked at a couple of cases in new mexico, state versus willis, 1982 case that says you cannot charge for a viable unborn fetus. that s a legislative issue. it was revisited again in 2006. state versus martinez that said an unborn fetus is different from a human being. certainly, it in order to be charged with vehicular manslaughter there has to be a human being. at the same time, he needs to be accountable in some degree in the event that the district
would just listen to this piece of testimony, you ll come around to our view of the case. we haven t seen any readbacks today. it seems to me they re sort of just in the early stages of deliberation, particularly going through the evidence, and i don t think they ve reached any conclusions as of right now. and trent, from a defense attorney perspective, as you watch this play out, i mentioned other cases where you have 12 jurors. this is under 6 because it s not a capital punishment case. does your experience tell you when you have a tough case like this, do jurors tend to work things out more quickly because they re smaller, or does that not matter? a couple things. first of all, john, i think because they re sequestered, they tend to work things out differently. they haven t been home, they haven t seen their families, they haven t been able to tend to personal matters. i think they re going to take it seriously. but in terms of the fact this is such a high-profile case, i think