democrats on capitol hill, they want to go to hearings either later this month or maybe at the beginning of december. and i was in court on that cupperman suit on thursday. while the judge there said he wanted to move it with, i think, the word he used was quickly, he talked about ruling by the end of december or the beginning of january. it seems to me the impeachment train will have left the station and made it to the senate by then. i m a little doubtful that is going to result and cupperman showing up. if that becomes the default schedule, it may than john bolton doesn t testify either. and perhaps eisenburg and anyone else in the white house that won wants to decline to cooperate with the inquiry. let me ask you about what he is alleged to have done. i go back to that testimony, what we know of it that alexander vindman delivered this week. something he alleges he kept trying to change the transcript, correct it. get it back to the way it was. reflect what actually happened
about white house counsel don mcgahn, whether he has to testify and the other was about this deputy national security adviser charles cupperman who is refusing to testify. let s talk about this cupperman hearing and let s talk about federal judges. it makes me insane. i admire the federal judiciary are great deal. but here we have an impeachment, perhaps the most important thing the congress can deal with. we have an important witness, charles cupperman, the deputy national security adviser also represented by charles cupperman who represents john bolton. and the question is, and it s not a simple question, should they be forced to testify. and what is judge richard leon do in the federal district court? he says i m not even going to hold a hearing until december 10th. get off his behind and decide this case. the idea that he is not even going to hold a hearing for six weeks? it s a disgrace. why? what s the reasoning behind that? got me. i think it s just disgraceful. these fede
or even now that he s a private citizen should he follow donald trump s request, which is all that it is, a request he not testify to the house. the assumption being that john bolton will be added to this case because he s represented by the same lawyer if john bolton gets the subpoena. yeah, lawrence, i think the best way for your viewers to understand this lawsuit is it s not really a lawsuit, it s a delaying tactic. what cupperman is doing is coming in and trying to buy time so he doesn t have to answer the subpoena and testify in congress. you know, i don t know what his motivations are, but that s the effect of what he s doing. and he s gotten the support from the trump administration for that. so much so that the trump administration when the judge here, judge leon, who s a widely respected judge as well in d.c., judge leon set the argument for december, and the lawyer for the trump administration said, no, that s going to interfere with
msnbc legal contributor and coauthor of an upcoming new book impeach the case against donald trump. thank you very much for joining us tonight. let s start with the don mcgahn subpoena. let s consider what happened in that case because the judge really had a struggle trying to understand why don mcgahn should not be forced to comply with a house subpoena. yeah, so you had two things going on really today, two different witnesses. but i think the most important thing, lawrence, to start your discussion is that s all gravy. from the house impeachment standpoint the evidence against trump as you ve been discussing for the first ten minutes is overwhelming. it s trump s own words. so, you know, these witnesses are nice and mcgahn and cupperman will be helpful to the house s case but they re not necessary at all. so what trump is trying to do here is delay them from
president trump and president zelensky when people like the secretary of state were. well, the house today has officially requested testimony of the impeachment proceedings of president trump from john bolton as of next week. we don t know whether or not bolton will appear. when he served as national security advisor his deputy was charles cupperman. cupperman was the one last week brought a lawsuit in response to his request to testify to the impeachment committees. cupperman asked a judge to intervene, to tell him whether or not he should obey the white house instruction not to appear or the congressional subpoena that says he must appear. that case is due to get its first hearing before a federal judge tomorrow afternoon at 4:00 p.m. eastern. again, charles cupperman was john bolton s deputy until september when they both left, slash were pushed out. john bolton i believe also shares a lawyer with mr. cupperman on these lawyers. that suggests that whatever happens on this court case