and that s increasing the fear even though it s not a front line. and i think it s really important as we keep in mind planning for different scenarios, humanitarian scenarios going forward. you then went from ukraine to germany. everyone is wondering, are the germans fully behind this? there is the spat going on even between the ukrainian government and german government because the germans have been so russian. the ukrainians would argue certainly the social democrats, dependent on russian energy, what is your sense of whether germany has really transformed itself on this issue? i think it has, and i think there s a really important category error being made around the world, especially in some of the commentary. germans are at an elite level, some of the whom i met at the senior reaches of government, but also at a local level, they really made a fundamental move in their own geopolitical positions and their own assessment of russia. however, they do this with deliberation, with
certainly the social democrats, dependent on russian energy, what is your sense of whether germany has really transformed itself on this issue? i think it has, and i think there s a really important category error being made around the world, especially in some of the commentary. germans are at an elite level, some of the whom i met at the senior reaches of government, but also at a local level, they really made a fundamental move in their own geopolitical positions and their own assessment of russia. however, they do this with deliberation, with caution, with the opposite of machismo. there s no machismo about doubling your defense budget in germany. there s a real sense of responsibility arriving from history. and i think it s incredibly important we don t mistake this caution, deliberation, with an absence of determination. i felt from the german leadership i met but also german civil society, they know this is deadly serious. they know it requires fundamental change in how they
from a legal perspective is a category error. i think that s more the case to look at. mueller is going to look at all of this through his legal lens, how are we going to get to the answer what he is supposed to resolve is russian interference in our election process. i think we ve sort of gone away from that he s looking at the legal implications of what came up and what may have arrived. i think the president and guiliani have done a masterful job of framing the debate in the court of public penalties. opinion. that will not change what robert mueller is doing in anyway, shape or form the president will continue to put out tweets about this being a witch hunt. no collusion. no interference, that s his way of communicating with his base. that is his way of trying to distract of what he feels like this is taking away from the legitimacy of his victory. all of that i think is good. that s what the president wants, guiliani wants.
or lawful exercise of his powers, that s not a crime. in the worst case, it s an abuse of power. you don t indict a president for abusing his power. you impeach him. that s ultimately a political question. not a legal question. i think mueller looking at it from a legal perspective is a category error. i think that s more the case to look at. mueller is going to look at all of this through his legal lens, how are we going to get to the answer what he is supposed to resolve is russian interference in our election process. i think we ve sort of gone away from that he s looking at the legal implications of what came up and what may have arrived. i think the president and guiliani have done a masterful job of framing the debate in the court of public penalties. that will not change what robert mueller is doing in anyway, shape or form the president will continue to put out tweets about this being a witch hunt. no collusion. no interference, that s his way
television set all those years before they discovered that fox news could do the yelling for them. i think that s why you see such a difference in response between mainstream media like nbc and fox is the whole idea of fox is trust us they can t be trusted. and we saw this week some people asking why isn t fox having an investigation the way nbc is continuing to have an investigation into broin williams. that s a category error to equate brian williams and bill o reilly. they are in two different ponds, two different oceans. well first of all, fox is a niche program. it s for a group of people alienated from the rest of the news media. it s also wedge programming, wedge politics the idea is to divide the audience grab hold of the part that agrees with you. so it require this constant