Transcripts For WHYY Tavis Smiley 20140905

After taking a beating for a at the same time at a press Conference Last Week that his administration had no strategy for combats isis and the violence in syria, president obama has called for a coalition to go after the terrorist group and has ordered 350 more troops to go to the area, to talk about these issues is richard haass, president of the council on foreign relations, and joins us now from new york. Its an honor to be on the program. Its great to be back. The president spoke earlier today, and last week, did not know what he wanted to do, but it was clear today, they are going to degrade and destroy. That is the phrase of the day. Degrade and destroy. They are on message. The administration is, with this notion of degrading and destroying. Richard haass, what do you make of the strategy . Well, degrading ought to be possible, destroying is hard with a terrorist organization because there will always been individuals that old out. If we degrade, we cannot just degrade in iraq. They ignore the border and we have to as well. We have to go after them in syria, and you can only do so much degrading from the air. Air power that the United States can provide can do some of the work, but ultimately we need a partner on the ground. Now, in iraq, we have three partners. We have the iraqi government, Kurdish Forces and sunni tribes. The problem in syria is we couldnt have a ground partner, the president is now calling for an International Coalition if that were to happen, fantastic. It would have to be a sunni arabs as well as outsiders and we would have to decide where do we leave in place the Syrian Government and where do we try to replace it, and simply go after isis, the problem is, if you cant get some type of an International Coalition, then what . But we are right to try, we should have pushed it some time ago, better late than never. You think the president will have assemb problem assembling group of the willing as the phrase goes . I do, it that is to have a large sunni element to be credible. That means jordanians and its not impossible, i think the countries have come to see isis as a threat, not simply to iraq or syria, but to themselves. Its possible the president could do it. Particularly if the u. S. Were to provide certain types of backing. Its not going to be easy and it will take some time. Always shudder when i hear a president talk about destroying a terrorist group. My sense of this is and you are expert, you can get rid of a terrorist, ist, you cannot destroy a ism, why set himself up to say, our goal is to destroy something we know we cannot do that ever, you cannot destroy it, why use that kind of language some. Im actually with you. I often compare terrorism to a disease, you cannot eliminate disease, what you can do is attack it and reduce your own vulnerability to it. You can increase your ability to bounce back. We can do all those things against terrorism. But, you are not going to have, you know, the equivalent of the battle ship missouri surrenderer ceremony like you had after world war ii, you will have at best, and it ought to be our goal is to seriously weaken the groups and put them on the defensive and limit the damage they can do to the world including ourselves. So, it is beyond fascinating for me, and i suspect for you as wells as head of the council on foreign relations, that just a few weeks ago, literally a few months ago. Assad was in syria, he was the devil incarnate and now, tonight, you other you and others are saying we should work with him to get rid of isis, i understand we have to deal with the cards dealt, but what do you make of the idea that syria will be our friend in this effort . I would not say they are our friend, you have to have tacit or explicit understanding with them. Look, they are evil. No one watching this should have any elusions about mr. Assad and his regime. Everything is relative and they are a local threat and they are not a global threat. Like isis, and so what the inside may need to do is accept that they would control certain parts of syria, but in other parts of syria, where the others are not dominant and the sunnis are, theres a role either for a panarab force with International Backing or some kind of an international force. Maybe the secular iraqi Syrian Opposition would have a role there. But some kind of a large force under sunni banner and there may have to be certain understanding that mr. Assad could stay in power in his part of syria, so long as he left the civilians alone and so long as he was willing to target isis in the part of the country he controlled. If you call that working with assad, and i say it is, sometimes in Foreign Policy you is have to choose and make difficult choices. This is argue ably one of the times. I respect that, richard, as you know i respect you as a thinker and Great American and yet, what im trying to juxtapose is just months ago, it was not just assad was the devil incarnate, but it was because we were told, he walked across, he obliterated the red line that the president drew. What was the red line . He gassed his own people, he used chemical weapons on his own people. And you are suggesting that maybe the way to deal with this is to allow him to stay in power under any arrangement. He gassed his own people, make sense of that for me . Look, its not a place where any of us wanted to arrive. Its a place where any of the decisions over the last three years, we made a mistake in urging that he depart without thinking hard about what would come after. Its the same mistake we made in places like libya and iraq. And then we were not willing to see the process through. We were not willing to make a sizeable invest in the Syrian Opposition. When when he crossed certain red lines, such as chemical weapons use, the United States looked the other way. So we have made a bad situation worse. So, we should not be surprised that 3 and a half years later, we wake up and we have a terrible set of options. Theres nothing out there, and we have to choose the least bad options still available. So the president gave ukraine today, shifting gears, a big fat wet kiss. It was basically a love letter to ukraine, what do you make of that . With limits. The United States is not going to send is forces to ukraine. We have interests there and how it plays out, we do not have legal obligations. Its a limited strategy of direct support for ukraine. Arms, intelligence, training, what have you. But theres real limits and most of the effort we are going to make is indirect. We are going to try to bolster the rest of nato where we have obligations and we will look at sanctioning russia more. We will hold out diplomatic possibilities for russia a. We will try to reduce the energy dependance. And under the circumstances, i think that is probably reasonable. This is nothing new, but today, putin, took it on the chin, visavis the obama speech, speec speech. Mr. Putin does not care about his standing in the world community, cares with it in russia and he is comfortable. He is trying to figure out, what are exactly the red lines. What would be the consequences if we were to cross them. Its my hunch that is improvising as much as anything else, in trying to figure out what gain versus what pain he will experience depending on what he does. You created one of the great phrases in conversations, war of choice. Versus war of necessity with your book, a great phrase. With regard to isis and the war, i will put it in quotes, that we are about to engage in, perhaps to try to degrade and destroy, to use the president s words. Is this going to be a war of necessity or a war of choice . I would say its getting very close to a war of necessity. And at the risk of getting slightly academic here, it a form of what is called preemtive self defense. If we do not weaken them, its when and not if they attack world interests and the American Homeland itself. Rather than wait for that, i think we have to act. Yes, i put it in the category of necessity. Is it possible for any myriad number of reasons that there are forces, there are leaders in w with a over stating this . I mean, we know its an evil group, but what is the what is the evidence to suggest that they really have any real intent or any real capability on striking us at the moment . Well, theres been comments by the head of it. That he looks forward to seeing people back again in new york, the fact that he was they have recruited so heavily from the United States and europe. Suggests to me that they may well have plans for attacking the United States and europe through those individuals when they return on their passports. More broadly, what is interesting, not just their capacity but their agenda. They are not simply out destroy. They want to create. What they want to create is horrible to you and i, but they want to have a 7th Century Society where nonbelievers and those that they feel, have no place in it. I take them seriously and i think the United States need to push back hard. Theres the politics, we talk about the policy. Now quickly about the politics, how does it play on capitol hill, will the president get what he needs to get to do what he needs to do . I dont think the problem is with capitol hill, the problem is the american people. Theres reluctance to get involved in the world, the president has to make the case for why the united needs to do more in the middle east and europe and asia a. Richard, your insights are fascinating and always delighted to have you on the program. Thanks for having, me tavis. A performance and conversation with multiple grammy winnerer, billy childs, stay with us. Despite good intentions, tribute albums can disappoint, but the new album that has been put together by billy childs to celebrate the Ground Breaking work of nero does not disappoint trust me, its called map to the treasure. He will end our program tonight, with a performance from the new cd, but billy, first of all, good to have you on the program. Great to be here. Larry kline. Yes. Produced the album. Produced joany, and Herbie Hancock that went on to be album of the year. Really . You may have heard, first album to do it in 50 years or so. So you are in good company in terms of production. Larry and i, we knew each other since 1973, we met in a theory class. Theres a great picture. There it is. I love my guys. I love this photo, the two of you way back went. Yeah, yeah, yeah, back when i had hair. We met in 1973 and took theory class and later on, we played with freddie hubba are rd in the a late 70s and we kind of parted ways around the early 80s, he started working with and marrying joany mitchell and i stayed the course in the jazz world, and then, so this project brings us back together after hitter years. Joanies name keeps coming up, what do you make of her song writing ability . She is a genius, i think she is brilliant. I think they are kind of like the two most important singer songwriters, although the term singer songwriter is a limiting description of what they are. And i think they are kind of like the two in my opinion, the to that stand out the most. Yeah, you called this project, map to the treasure reimagining laura nyro the critics have labeled it a tribute album. Do you like it . I did not approach it like a tribute album in the sense that to me, a tribute would be something that kind of pays tribute to the person and is mostly about the person that you are doing the tribute to. This is more kind of a reimagining of her music, where we take her music and kind of put it through the prism of our own experience. You know . Its kind of like a joint kind of production. For those that do not know who laura nyro was, how do you describe her . I would describe her as one of the most important song writers that america has produced. And someone that everybody who wants to write songs should check out on in the same sense that anyone who wants to play jazz piano should check out Herbie Hancock, she had different influences and made them in to this really organic whole. She was coming from like the dooopp, the Broadway Musical and jazz, John Coletrane was a big influence on her. And coming from the basic folk genre as well. And all of it is combined in to this kind of organic whole, where you get where you then just focus on the drama and the power of the stories that she is telling. Great story teller, she was half italian and jewish. Changed the spelling of her last name. Yes, it was nigro. She had, i have to be a nigro too, so she changed it to nyro. In ducted in to the rock askand roll hall of fame. Well deserved. Dies in 97. Of . Ovarian cancer, the same disease that claimed her mom at the same age. Way too young. Way too young. You have some speaking of young, you have have young folk and not so young folk on the project. I mean, everybody and their mother yeah, i know. All of your friend s showed p for this one. Lisa fisher and yoyo mmp a, ricky lee jones, alison krauss, and spaulding and wayne shorter. Everybody. Yeah. It turned in to this thing that, you know, it started out with this idea i had well i had been thinking about it for the past 12, 15 years, you know . But never could figure out how to do it, because it was hard for me to conceive of one singer who could cover all of the ground that laura nyro could cover with her own song. So i thought it had to be multiple singers. Prevented me from doing it over the years. And then i got tired of it being on the back burner and i called my agent who made a few phone calls and it turned in to this thing. Your phone calls were answered, literally, they answered and showed up. I have 30 seconds. Tell me about the track that you are going to perform tonight . Yeah, confession, thats a song that laura wrote, its on eli and the 13th confession. Its a song about, she takes the idea of virgin and turns it in to someone who is new to love. And as new to the feeling of intense love for her lover. You know . And that was a beautiful song. Its a beautiful song, and it could could not be played by a more beautiful person. Have a gift that i love, and finally got you on the show. Its called map to the treasure reimagining laura nyro, by billy childs. Herbie hancock surprised us, you have a Wonderful Team here behind billy childs. He is going to perform a song written about by laura nyro called the confession. He will be joined by singer becka stephens, as he gets ready to hop on the keys, thank you for coming on and thanks for watching and enjoy. And as always, keep the faith. Super summer, sugar coppin in the morning do your shoppin baby, oh, i love my love thing super ride inside my lovething and you may disappear smoe but youll be back, i swear would you love to love me, baby i would love to love you baby, now would you love to love me baby i would love to love you baby, now baby now no, no, its not pain super summer, sugar croppin in the mornin do your shoppin baby i love my love thing notes super ride inside my love thing you may leave the fair but youll be back, i swear would you love to love me baby i would love to love you baby now would you love to love me baby i would love to love you baby, now baby, now i keep hearin mother cryin i keep hearin daddy through his grave little girl of all the daughters you were born a woman, not a slave oh, i hate my winsome lover tell him ive had others at my breast but tell him hes held my heart and only now am i a virgin i confess, i confess love my love thing love is surely gospel love my love thing love is surely gospel love my love thing love is surely gospel love my love thing snoes love my love thing love is surely gospel love my love thing no love my love thing love is surely gospel love my love thing love is surely gospel love my love thing love is surely gospel love my love thing love is surely gospel [ applause ] for more information on todays show, visit tavis smiley at pbs. Org. Hi, im tavis smiley, and join me next time for a interview with sergio mendes, that is next time, see you then. And from contributions from viewers like you, thank you. Rose welcome to the program. With the president in europe, we talk more about the choices in Foreign Policy for him and european leaders, and we talk to david sanger the chief National Security correspondent for the new york times. Well, the clock is ticking on the other side of the world with leaders who know theyre going to be in office for some time. Vladimir putin could stay in office until 2024. If he can survive the many challenges, i suspect hes going to have. We dont know whether isis is a power that will burn out, as many in the intelecommunity believe iting, but there will be other forms of islamic extremism that come up. But for president obama, you know, he can hand out clocks as president wuive di