Gamesmanship from both campaigns this is it, were literally minutes way from the start of the first and all important president ial debate on a stage behind us. Weve already seen the candidates tonight Hillary Clinton and donald trump arriving here a bit earlier this evening. Theyre waiting backstage. And chuck, weve had a moment tonight. Yeah. President bill clinton is in the house. And met mrs. Melania trump. They just shared that handshake. Weve got the whole families assembled here. We do. And i think one thing we ought to remember as they are, we know this is going to be a clash of big personalities, this is also a clash of two competing visions of america. Hillary clinton embracing the many cultural changes, diversity, acceleration of globalization thats happening. Donald trump embracing a vision that says whoa, lets slow down, lets slow things down, lets look inward a little bit. Lets not let that get lost tonight. Lets bring in our colleague tom brokaw, obviously somebody whos watched a lot of debates. Doesnt this feel like theres Something Special about this one, if nothing else maybe 100 Million People could be watching. Never seen one quite like this in part because the 100 Million People, a lot are trying to make up their minds. This is an important debate. Add to the television viewership, social media going on, tweeting that is going on, texting that is going on, the streaming that is going on. This is the biggest electronic event in American History to say nothing of american president ial politics. The stakes are so high with the polls tight as weve seen as recently as today. Lets go to Andrea Mitchell, excuse me, Haley Jackson is in the sp hi, savannah. Here media and surrogates are ready for what happens after the debate. Before then, heres Donald Trumps biggest test. Can he prove he has the temperment to be commander in chief . Its one of his biggest negatives to voters. Too many insults he could come off as a bully, too few specifics and could seem unprepared. Savannah . Hallie jackson, thank you. Lets go to Andrea Mitchell covering the Hillary Clinton campaign. Whats Hillary Clintons goal tonight, andrea . Voters and very frankly one of her top aides said to me were glad we have donald trump to debate against because hes the draw, hes drawing 100 Million People. And thats the kind of crowd Hillary Clinton has not been able to attract. She now has to sell herself tonight and bill clinton is here. He never attended kn ed any of the primary debates. Thank you, andrea. Were 230 seconabout 30 seconds away from the debate. The stakes are very high. As i mentioned earlier, the polls are exfreedomly tight. They are. Fluid. We have a bunch of people who are either none of the above or undecided. I think the polls will move tonight. The multibillionaire, former first lady, secretary of state, u. S. Senator about to debate. Well let lester holt take it away. Good evening from Hofstra University in hempstead, new york, im lester holt. Anchor of nbc nightly news. I want to welcome you to the first president ial debate. The participants tonight are donald trump and Hillary Clinton. Sponsored by the commission on president ial debates. A nonpartisan, nonprofit organization. The commission drafted tonights format and the rules have been agreed to by the campaigns. The 90 minute debate is divided into 6 segments each 15 minutes long. Well explore three topic areas tonight, achieving prosperity, americas direction, and securing america. At the start of each segment, i will ask the same leadoff question to both candidates and they will each have up to two minutes to respond. The end of the segment, well have an open discussion. The questions are mine and have not been shared with the commission of the campaigns. The audience here in the room has agreed to remain silent so that we can focus on what the candidates are saying. I will invite you to applaud, however, at this moment as we welcome the candidates, democratic nominee for president of the United States, Hillary Clinton. And republican nominee for president of the United States, donald hey, how are you . Good luck to you. Good to see you. Thank you. Good to see you. Well, i dont expect us to cover all the issues of this campaign tonight, but i remind every president ial debates scheduled. We are going to focus on many of the issues that voters tell us are most important and were going to press for specifics. I am honored to have this role, but this evening belongs to the candidates, and just as important to the American People. Candidates, we look forward to hearing you articulate policies and positions as well as your visions and your values. So, lets begin. Were calling this opening segment achieving prosperity and central to that is there are two economic realities in america today. Theres been a record six straight years of job growth and new census numbers show incomes have increased at a record rate after years of stagnation. However, income inequality remains significant and nearly half of americans are living paycheck to paycheck. Beginning with you, secretary clinton, why are you a better choice than your opponent to create the kinds of jobs that will put more money into the pockets of American Workers . Well, thank you, lester, andnk hofstra for hosting us. The central question in this election is really what kind of country we want to be and what kind of future well build together. Today is my granddaughters second birthday so i think about this a lot. First, we have to build an economy that works for everyone, not just those at the top. That means we need new jobs, good jobs, with rising incomes. I want us to invest in you. I want us to invest in infrastructure and advanced manufacturing. Innovation and technology. Clean Renewable Energy and Small Business because most of the new jobs will come from Small Business. We also have to make the economy fairer. That starts with raising the National Minimum wage and also guarantee finally equal pay for womens work. I also want to see more companies do profit sharing. If you help create the profits, you should be able to s i executives at the top. And i want us to do more to support people who are struggling to balance family and work. Ive heard from so many of you about the difficult choices you face and the stresses that youre under. So lets have paid family leave. Earned sick days. Lets be sure we have affordable childcare and debtfree college. How are we going to do it . Were going to do it and close the corporate loopholes. Finally we tonight are on the stage together, donald trump and i. Donald, its good to be with you. Were going to have a debate where we are talking about the important issues facing our country. You have to judge us. Who can shoulder the immense, awesome responsibilities of the presidency . Who can put into action the plans that will make your life better . I hope that i will be able to earn y secretary clinton, thank you. Mr. Trump, the same question to you. Its about putting money, more money into the pockets of American Workers. You have up to two minutes. Thank you, lester. Our jobs are fleeing the country. Theyre going to mexico, theyre going to many other countries. You look at what china is doing to our country in terms of making our product. Theyre devaluing their currency and theres nobody in our government to fight them and we have a very good fight and we our country as a piggy bank to rebuild china and many other countries are doing the same thing. So were losing our good jobs. So many of them. When you look at whats happening in mexico, a friend of mine who builds plants said its the eighth wonder of the world, theyre building some of the biggest plants anywhere in the world, some of the most sophisticated, some of the best plants. With the United States, as you said, not so much. So, ford is leaving, you see that. Their small cardi division leaving. Thousands of jobs leaving michigan, leaving ohio. Theyre all leaving. We cant allow it to happen anymore. As far as childcare is concerned and so many other things i think hillary and i agree on that. We probably disagree a little bit as to numbers and amounts, and what were going to do, but perhaps well be talking about that later. But we have to stop our jobs from being stolen from us. We have to stop our companies from leaving with it, firing all of the people. All you have to do is take a look at carrier airconditioning in indianapolis. They fired 1,400 people. Theyre going to mexico. So many hundreds and hundreds of companies are doing this. We cannot let it happen. Under my plan, ill be reducing taxes tremendously from 35 to 15 for companies, small and big businesses. Thats going to be a job creator like we havent s s its going to be a beautiful thing to watch. Companies will come. They will build. They will expand. New companies will start. And i look very, very much forward to doing it. We have to renegotiate our trade deals and we have to stop these countries from stealing our companies and our jobs. Secretary clinton, would you like to respond . Well, i think that trade is an important issue. Of course, we have 5 of the worlds population. We have to trade with the other 95 . Deals. We also, though, need to have a tax system that rewards work and not just financial transactions. And the kind of plan that donald has put forth would be trickledown economics all over again, in fact, it would be the most extreme version, the biggest tax cuts for the top percents of the people in this country than weve ever had. I call it trumped up trickle down because thats exactly what it would be grow the economy. We just have a different view about whats best for growing the economy. How we make investments that will actually produce jobs and rising incomes. I think we come at it from somewhat different perspectives. I understand that. You know, donald was very fortunate in his life and thats all to his benefit. He started his business with 14 million, borrowed from his father, and he really believes that and that everything will work out from there. I dont buy that. I have a different experience. My father was a Small Businessman. He worked really hard. He printed drapery fabrics on long tables where he pulled out those fabrics and he went down with a silk screen and dumped the paint in and took the squeegee and kept going. What i believe, the more we can do for the middle class, the more we can invest in you, your education, your skills, your future, the better we will be well grow. Thats the kind of economy i want us to see again. Let me followup with mr. Trump if i can. You talked about creating 25 million jobs and promised to bring back millions of jobs for americans. How are you going to bring back the industries that have left this country for cheaper labor overseas . How specifically are you going to tell american manufacturers that you have to come back . Well, for one thing, and before we start on that, my father gave me a very small loan in 1975 and i built it into a the greatest assets in the world. And i say that only because thats the kind of thinking that our country needs. Our country is in deep trouble. We dont know what were doing when it comes to deevaluations and all of these countries all over the world, especially china. Theyre the best. The best ever at it. What theyre doing to us is a very, very sad thing. So we have to do that. We have to renegotiate our trade deals. And lester, theyre taking our jobs. Theyre giving ince incenti incentives frankly, we dont do. Let me give you the example of mexico. They have a vat tax. Were on a different system. When we sell into mexico, theres a tax. When they sell in, automatic 16 approximately. When they sell into us, theres no tax. Its a defective agreement. Its been defective for a long time. Many years. But the politicians havent done anything about it. Now, in all fairness to secretary clinton, yes, is that okay . Good. I want you to be very secretary clinton, when she started talking about this, it was really very recently. Shes been doing this for 30 years. And why hasnt she made the agreements better . The nafta agreement is defective. Just because of the tax and many other reasons, but just because of the let me interrupt just a moment. Secretary clinton and others, politicians, should have been doing this for years. Not right now because of the fact that weve created a movement. They should have been doing this for years. Whats happened to our jobs and our and our economy, generally, is, look, we owe 20 trillion. We cannot do it any longer, lester. Back to the question, though, how do you bring back, specifically bring back jobs . American manufacturers. How do you make them bring the jobs back . Well, the first thing you do is dont let the jobs leave. The companies have leaving. I could name i mean, there are thousands of them. Theyre leaving and theyre leaving in bigger numbers than ever. And what you do is you say, fine, you want to go to mexico or some lot of luck, but if you think youre going to make your air conditioners or your cars or your cookies or whatever you make and bring them into our country without a tax, youre wrong. And once you say youre going to have to tax them coming in, and our politicians never do this, because they have special interests and the special interests want those companies to leave because in many cases they own the companies. So what im saying is we can stop them from leaving. We have to stop them from leaving and thats a big, big factor. Let me let secretary clinton get in here. Well, lets stop for a second and remember where we were eight years ago. We had the worst financial crisis, the great recession, the worst since president 1930s. That was in large part because of tax policies that slashed taxes on the wealthy, failed to invest in the middle class, took their eyes off of wall street, and created a perfect storm. In fact, donald was crisis. He said back in 2006, gee, i hope it does collapse because then i can go in and buy some and make some money. Well, it did collapse. Thats called business, by the way. 9 Million People, 9 Million People lost their jobs. 5 Million People lost their homes and 13 trillion in Family Wealth was wiped out. Now, we have come back from that abyss and it has not been easy. So were now on the precipe potentially much better economy, but the last thing we need to do is to go back to the policies that failed us in the first place. Independent experts have looked at what ive proposed and looked at what donalds proposed and basically theyve said this. That if his tax plan, which would blow up the debt by over 5 trillion and would, in some instances, disadvantage middle class families compared to the into effect, we would lose 3. 5 million jobs. And maybe have another recession. Theyve looked at my plans and theyve said, okay, if we can do this, and i intend to get it done, we will have 10 million more new jobs because we will be making investments where we can grow the economy. Take clean energy. Some country is going to be the Clean Energy Superpower of the 21st century. Donald thinks that the chinese. I think its real. I did not. Science is real. I did not say that. And i think i do not say that. I think its important that we grip this and deal with it both at home and abroad and heres what we can do. We can deploy a half a billion more solar panels. We can have enough clean energy to power every home. We can build a new modern electric grid. Thats a lot of jobs. Thats a lot of new economic activity. So ive tried to be very specific about that were going to get the economy really moving again. Building on the progress weve made over the last eight years but never going back to what got us in trouble in the first place. Mr. Trump . She talks about solar panels. We invested in a solar company, country, that was a disaster. They lost plenty of money on that one. Now, look, im a great believer in all forms of energy, but were putting a lot of people out of work. Our Energy Policies are a disaster. Our country is los energy, in ternms of paying off our debt. You cant do what youre looking to do with 20 trillion in debt. The Obama Administration from the time theyve come in is over 230 years worth of debt and hes topped it. Hes doubled it in a course of almost eight years. 7 1 2 years to be semiexact. So i will tell you this. We have to do a much better job at keeping job at giving companies incentive to build new companies or to expand because theyre not doing it. All you have to do is look at michigan, look at ohio and look at all of these places where so many of their jobs and their companies are just leaving. Theyre gone. And hillary, i just ask you this, youve been doing this for 30 years. Why are you just thinking about these solutions right now . For 30 years youve been doing it and now youre just starting well, actually i will bring excuse any. I will bring back jobs. You cant bring back jobs. Well, actually, i have thought about this quite a bit. Yeah, for 30 years. I have well, not quite that long. I think my husband did a pretty good job in the 1990s. I think a lot about what worked and how he approved nast d nafta, single worst trade deal approved in the country. Incomes went up for everybody. 1990s if were going it look at the facts. When i was in the senate, i had a number of trade deals that came before me and i held them all to the same test. Will they create jobs in america . Will they raise incomes in america . And are they good for our National Security . Some of them i voted for. The biggest one, a multinational one known as cafta, i voted against and because i hold the same standards as i look at all of these trade deals. But lets not assume challenge we have in the economy. I think it is a part of it and ive said what im going to do. Im going to have a special prosecutor. Were going to enforce the trade deals we have. And were going to hold people accountable. When i was secretary of state, we actually increased american exports globally 30 . We increased them to china 50 . So i know how to really work to get new jobs and to get exports that help to you havent done it in 30 years or 26 years. Ive been a senator, donald. You havent done it. You havent done it. Ive been secretary of state. Excuse me, your husband signed nafta, one of the worst things that ever happened to the manufacturing industry. That is your opinion. You go to new england, go to ohio, pennsylvania, you go to anywhere you want, secretary clinton, and you will see devastation where manufacturers down 30 , 40 , sometimes 50 . N nafta is the worst trade deal signed anywhere, in this country. Now you want to approve transpacific partnership. You were totally in favor of it then heard what i was saying how bad it is and said i cant win that debate. Yuan if y you know if you did win, you would approve that and almost be as bad as nafta. Nothing will top nanafa. That is not accurate. I was against it once it was finally negotiated. The terms were laid out. Gold standard. You kacalled it the Gold Standard of trade deals. Said it was the finest deal youve ever seen. You heard what i said about it and you were against it. Donald, i know you live in your own reality oh, yeah. That is not the facts. I did say, i hoped it would be a good deal. When it was negotiated not. Which i was not responsible for, i concluded it wasnt. I wrote about that so is it president obamas fault . Is it president obamas fault . Before you even announced. Look, there are secretary, is it president obamas fault . There are different because hes pushing it. There are different views about whats going for our country, our economy, and our leadership in the world. I think its important to look at what we need to do to get the economy going again. Thats why i said new jobs with rising incomes, investments. Not in more tax cuts that would add 5 trillion to the debt. But you have no plan. Educate oh, i do. Secretary, you have no plan. Ive written a book about it. Its called stronger together. Thats about all at a bookstore or at an airport near you. Were going to move to its because i see this, when need to have strong growth, fair growth, sustained growth. We also have to look at how we help families balance the responsibilities at home and the responsibilities at business. So we have a very robust set of plans. And people have looked at both of our plans, have concluded that mine would create 10 million jobs and yours would lose us million jobs and explode the debt you are going to approve one of the biggest tax cuts in history. Youre going to approve whone of the biggest tax increases in history. You are going to drive business out. Your regulations are a disaster. Youre going to increase regulations all over the place. By the way, my tax cut is the biggest since ronald reagan. Im very proud of it. It will create tremendous numbers of new jobs, but regulations, you are going to regulate these businesses out lester, i tell you this, ive been all over, and when i go around, despite the tax cut, the things that businesses and people like the most is the fact that im cutting regulation. You have regulations on top of regulations, and new companies cannot form and Old Companies are going out of business and you want to increase the regulations and make them even worse. Im going to cut regulations. Im going to cut taxes big league and youre going to raiseax end of story. Let me get you to pause right there. Were going to move into the next segment. Were going to talk that cant be left please, take 30 seconds. I kind of assumed that there would be a lot of these charges and claims and so facts. We have taken the home page of my website, hillaryclinton. Com and turned it into a fact checker so if you want to see in realtime what the facts are, please go and take a look. Because and take a look at see. Will not add a penny to the debt and your plans would add 5 trillion to the debt. What i have proposed would cut regulations and streamline them for Small Businesses. What i have proposed would be paid for by raising taxes on the wealthy because they have made all the gains in the economy and i think its time that the wealthy and corporations paid their fair share to support this country. You just opened the next segment. That . I think i should. You go to her website and take a look at her website, shes going to raise taxes 1. 3 trillion. Mr. Trump and look at her website. You know what, its no different than this. Shes telling us how to fight isis. Go to her website. She tells you how to fight isis on her website. I dont think general Douglas Macarthur would like that too much. The next segment at least i have a plan to fight isis. No, no, youre telling the enemy everything i want to do. The enemy everything you want to do. No wonder youve, fighting no wonder youve been fighting isis your entire adult life. Thats a go to the please, the Fact Checkers, get to work. You are unpacking a lot here. Were still on the issue of achieving prosperity. And i want to talk about taxes. The fundamental difference between the two of you concerns the wealthy. Secretary clinton, youre calling for a tax increase on the wealthiest americans. Id like you to further defend that. Mr. Trump, youre calling t id like you to defend that. The next twominute answer goes to you, mr. Trump. Im calling for major jobs. The wealthy are going to create tremendous jobs. Going to expand their companies, theyre going to do a tremendous job. Im getting rid of the interest provision and if you really look, its not a tax its really not a great thing for the wealthy. Its a great thing for middle class. Its a great thing for companies to expand. And when these people are going to put billions and billions of dollars into companies and when from overseas, where they cant bring the money back because politicians like secretary clinton wont allow them to bring the money back because the taxes are so onerous, and the bureaucratic red tape, so what is so bad. What theyre doing is leaving our country and theyre, believe it or not, leaving because taxes are too high and because some of them have lots of money outside of our country and instead of bringing it back and putting the money to work because they cant work out a deal to, and everybody agrees it should be brought back, instead leaving our country to get their money because they cant bring their money back into our country because of bureaucratic red tape because they cant get together. Because we have a president that cant sit them around a table and get them to approve something and heres the thing, republicans and democrats agree that this should be done. 2. 5 trillion. I happen to think its double that. Probably 5 trillion that we can bring into our country, lester, it in here very quickly and it could be put to use on the inner cities and lots of other things and it would be beautiful but we have no leadership and honestly, that starts with secretary clinton. All right. You have is two minutes of the same question to defend tax increases on the wealthiest americans, secretary clinton. I have a feeling by the end of this evening im going to be blamed for everything thats ever happened. Why not. Why not, yeah. Why not. You know, just join the debate by say now hey, theres nothing crazy about not letting our Companies Bring their money back into their country. This is secretary clintons two minutes, please. Yes. Well, lets start the clock again, lester. Weve looked at your tax proposals. I dont see changes in the Corporate Tax rates or the kinds of proposals youre referring to that repateuation. You didnt read it. I happen to support that in a way that will actually work to our benefit. But when i look at what you have proposed, you have what is called now the trump loophole because it would so advantage you and the business you do. Youve proposed who gave it that name . The first ever who gave it that this is secretary clintons 4 billion tax benefit for your family. And when you look at how much, how much . It s as i said, trumped up trickle down. Trickle down did not work. It got us into the mess we were in 2008 and 2009. Slashing taxes on the wealthy hasnt worked, and a lot of really smart wealthy people know that. And they are saying, hey, we need to do more to make the contributions we should be making to rebuild the middle class. I dont think topdown works in america. I think building the middle class, making College Debt Free so more young people can get their education. Helping people refinance their tax their debt from college at a lower rate. Those are the kinds of things that will really boost the economy. Broadbased inclusive growth is what we need in america. Not more advantages for people at the very top. Mr. Trump typical politician. All talk, no action. Sounds work. Never going to happen. Our country is suffering because people like secretary clinton have made such bad decisions in terms of our jobs, and in terms of whats going on. Now, look, we have the worst revival of an economy since the great depression, and believe me, were in a bubble right now and the only thing that looks good is the stock market, but if you raise Interest Rates even a little bit, thats going to come crashing down. Better be awfully careful and we have a fed thats doing political things. This janet yellen of the fed, the fed is doing political by keeping the Interest Rates at this level, and believe me, the day obama goes off and he leaves and goes out to the golf course for the rest of his life to play golf, when they raise Interest Rates, youre going to see some very bad things happen because the fed is not doing their job. The fed is being more political than secretary clinton. Mr. Trump, were burden that americans have to fay, yet you have not released your tax returns and the reason nominees have released their returns for decades is so voters will know if their potential president owes money to, who he owes it to and any business conflicts. Dont americans have a right to know if there are any conflicts of interest . I dont mind releasing. Im under a routine audit. It will be released. As soon as the audit is finished, it will about donald trump by going down to the federal elections where i filed a 104page, essentially, financially sapen of sorts, forms they have. It shows income. The income, i just looked today, the income is filed at 694 million for this past year. 694 million. If you would have told me i was going to make that 15 or 20 years ago, i would have been very surprised. Thats the kind of thinking our country needs. When we have a country thats going so badl off by every single country in the world, its the kind of thinking that our country needs because everybody lester, we have a trade deficit with all of the countries that we do business with of almost 800 billion a year. You know what that is . That means whos negotiating these trade deals . We have people that are political hacks negotiating our trade deals. The irs says an audit of your taxes during an audit. So the question, does the publics right to know outweigh your personal well, i told you, i will release them as soon as the audit look, ive been under audit almost for 15 years. I know a lot of wealthy people that have never been audited. I said, do you get audited . I get audited almost every year. And in a way, i should be complaining. Im not even complaining. I dont mind it. Its almost become a way of life. I get audited by the irs. Other people dont. I will say this. We have a situation this country that has to be taken care of. I will release my tax returns against my lawyers wishes. When she releases her 33,000 emails that have been deleted. As soon as she releases them, i will release i will release my tax returns and thats against, my lawyers they say dont do it. I will tell you this. In fact, watching shows, reading the papers, almost every until the audits complete. When the audits complete, ill do it but i would go against them if she releases her emails so its negotiable . Its not negotiable, no, let her release why did she delete 33,000 ill let her answer that. Let me admonish the audience one more time. There was an agreement, we asked you to be silent. It would be helpful for us. Secretary clinton . I think youve seen another example of bait and switch here. For 40 years, everyone running for president has released their tax returns. Nearly, i think, 39, 40 years of our tax returns, but everyone has done it. We know the irs has made clear there is no prohibition on releasing it when youre under audit. So youve got to ask yourself, why wont he release his tax returns . And i think there may be a couple of reasons. First, maybe hes not as rich as he says he is. Second, maybe hes not as charitable as he claims to be. Third, we dont know dealings, but we have been told through investigative reporting that he owes about 650 million to wall street and foreign banks. Or maybe he doesnt want the American People, all of you watching tonight, to know that hes paid nothing in federal taxes because the only years that anybodys ever seen were a couple of years when he had to turn them over to state authorities when he was trying to get a casino license and they showed he didnt pay any federal tax. That makes me smart. If hes paid zero, that means zero for troops, zero for vets, zero for schools or health, and i think probably hes not all that enthusiastic about having the rest of our country see what the real reasons are because it must be something really important, even terrible that hes trying to hide. And the Financial Disclosure statement, they dont give you all the details that tax returns would. And it just seems to me that this is something that the American People deserve to see and i have no reason to believe that hes ever going to release his tax returns because theres something hes hiding. Andguessing at what it might be that hes hiding but i think the question is were he ever to get near the white house, what would be those conflicts . Who does he owe money to . Well, he owes you the answers to that. And he should provide them. He also he also raised the issue of your emails. You want to respond to that . I do. You know, i made a mistake using a private email. Thats for sure. And if i had to do it over again, i would obviously do it differently, but im not going to make any excuses. It was a mistake and i take responsibility for that. Mr. Trump . That was more than a mistake. That was not a mistake. That was done purposely. When you have your staff taking the 5th amendment, taking the 5th so theyre not prosecuted, when you have the man that set up the illegal server taking the 5th, i think its disgraceful and believe me, this country thinks its really thinks its disgraceful also. As far as my tax returns, you dont learn that much from tax returns. That i can tell you. You learn a lot from Financial Disclosure. And you should go down and take a that. The other thing, im extremely underleveraged. The report that said 650 million which, by the way, a lot of friends of mine that know my business says boy, thats not a lot of money relative to what i had. The buildings that were in question, they said in the same report which was actually it wasnt even a bad story, to be honest with you, but the buildings are worth 3. 9 billion. The 650 isnt even on that. That. I can give you a list of banks if that would help you. I can give you a list of banks, very fine institutions, very fine banks. I could do that very quickly. Im very underleveraged. I have a great company. I have a tremendous income. The reason i say that is not in a bragedosious way. Its about time this country has somebody running it that has an idea about money. When we have 20 trillion in debt and our countrys a mess, you know, its one thing to have 20 trillion in debt and our roids are good and and everythings in great shape, our airports our arnt airports are like from a thirdworld country. You land at laguardia, land at kennedy, land at l. A. X. , land at newark and come in from dubai and qatar, come in from china, you see these incredible airports and you land weve become a thirdworld country. So, the worst of all things has happened. We owe 20 trillion and were a mess. We havent even started. Trillion in the middle east according to a report that i just saw. Whether its 6 trillion or 5 trillion, looks like its 6 trillion. 6 trillion in the middle east, we could have rebuilt our countries twice. Its really a shame. Its politicians like secretary clinton that have caused this problem. Our country has tremendous problems. Were a debtor nation. Were a serious debtor nation. And we have a country that needs new roads, new tunnels, new bridges, new airports, new schools, new money because its been squandered on so many of your ideas. Let you respond maybe because you havent paid any federal income tax for a lot of years and the other thing i think is important it would be squandered, too, believe me. Is if your main claim to be president of the United States is your business, then i think we should talk about that. You know, your Campaign Manager said that you built a lot of businesses on the a lot of the people who were stiffed by you and your businesses, donald. Ive met dishwashers, painters, architects, glass installers, marble installers, drapery installers like my dad was, who you refused to pay when they finished the work that you asked them to do. We have an architect in the audience who designed one of your clubhouses at one of its a beautiful facility. It immediately was put to use. And you wouldnt pay what the man needed to be paid what he was charging you maybe he didnt do a good job and i was unsatisfied with his work which our country should do, too. The thousands of people that you have stiffed over the course of your business not deserve some kind of apology from someone who has they produced and then refused to pay them . I can only say that im certainly relieved that my late father never did business with you. He provided a good middle class life for us, but the people he worked for, he expected the bargain to be kept on both sides. And when we talk about your business, youve taken business bankruptcy six times. There are a lot of great businesspeople that have never taken bankruptcy once. King of debt. You talk about leverage. You even at one time suggested that you would try to negotiate down the wrong. National debt of the United States. Wrong. Well, sometimes theres not a direct transfer of skills from business to government, but sometimes what happened in business would be really bad for government. Lets let mr. Trump we need to be very clear about that. I do think its time. Look, its all words. Unbelievable company. Some of the greatest assets anywhere in the world, real estate assets anywhere in the world beyond the United States. In europe, lots of different places. Its an unbelievable company, but on occasion, four times, we used certain laws that are there and when secretary clinton talks about people that didnt get paid, first of all, they did get paid a lot, but taking advantage of the laws of nation. Now, if you want to change the laws, youve been there a long time, change the law. But i take advantage of the laws of the nation because im running a company, my obligation right now is to do well for myself, my family, my employees, for my companies and thats what i do. But what she doesnt say is that tens of thousands of people that are unbelievably happy and they love me. Ill give you an example. Were just opening up white house, so if i dont get there one way, im going to get to pennsylvania avenue another. But were opening the old post office. Under budget, ahead of schedule. Saved tremendous money. Im a year ahead of schedule. And thats what this country should be doing. We build roads and they cost two, three, four times what theyre supposed to cost. We buy products for our military and come at costs that are so far above what theyre supposed to be because we dont have people when we look at the budget, the budget is bad to a large extent because we have people that have no idea as to what to do and how to buy. The Trump International is way underbudget and way ahead of schedule and we should be able to do that for our country. Were well behind schedule, so i want to move to our next segment. We move into our next segment talking about americas direction. Lets start by talking about race. A share of americans country is the highest its been in decades. Much of it amplified by shootings of africanamericans by police. As weve seen recently in charlotte and tulsa. Race has been a big issue in this campaign, and one of you is going to have to bridge a very wide and bitter gap. So how do you heal the divide . Secretary clinton, you get two mint minuute minutes on this. Well, youre right. Race remains a significant challenge in our country. Unfortunately, race still determines t often determines where people live, determines what kind of education in their Public Schools they can get, and, yes, it determines how theyre treated in the criminal Justice System. Weve just seen those two tragic examples in both tulsa and charlotte. And weve got to do several things at the same time. We have to restore trust between make sure that our police are using the best training, the best techniques, that theyre well prepared to use force only when necessary. Everyone should be respected by the law and everyone should respect the law. Right now, thats not the case in a lot of our neighborhoods. So i have ever since the first day of my campaign called for criminal justice reform. Ive laid out a platform that i think would begin to remedy some of the problems we have in the criminal Justice System, but we also have to recognize in addition to the challenges that we face with policing, there are so many good, Brave Police Officers who equally want reform. So we have to bring communities together in order to begin working on that as a mutual goal. And weve got to get guns out of the hands the gun epidemic is the leading cause of death of young africanamerican men. More than the next nine causes put together. So we have to do two things as i said. We have to restore trust. We have to work with the police. We have to make sure they respect the communities and the communities respect them. And we have to tackle the plague of gun violence which is a big contributor to a lot of the problems that were seeing today. All right, mr. Trump, you have two mi divide . First of all, secretary clinton doesnt want to use a couple of words and thats law and order. We need law and order. If we dont have it, were not going to have a country, and when i look at whats going on in charlotte, a city i love, a city where i have investments, when i look at whats going on throughout various parts of our country, whether its i mean, i can just keep naming them all day long. We need law and order in our country and i endorsement of the fraternal order of police. Just came in. We have endorsements from, i think, almost every police group, very i mean, a large percentage of them in the United States. We have a situation where we have our inner cities, africanamericans, hispanics, are living in hell because its so dangerous. You walk down the street, you get shot. In had thousands of shootings, thousands since january 1st. Thousands of shootings. I say, where is this . Is this a wartorn country . What are we doing . And we have to stop the violence. We have to bring back law and order. In a place like chicago where thousands of people have been killed. Thousands over the last number of years. In fact, almost 4,000 have been killed since people in chicago have been killed. We have to bring back law and order. Now, whether or not in a place like chicago you do stop and frisk, which worked very well, mayor giuliani is here, it worked very well in new york. It brought the crime rate way down, but you take the gun away from criminals that shouldnt be having it. We have gangs roaming the street and in many cases theyre illegally here. Illegal immigrants. And they have guns. And they shoot and we have to be very strong and we have to be very vigilant. We have to be we have to know what were doing. Right now, our police in many cases are afraid to do anything. We have to protect our inner cities because africanamerican communities are being decimated by crime. Your two minutes has expired. I do want to followup. Stop and frisk was ruled unconstitutional in new york because it largely singled out black and hispanic young men. No, youre wrong. Who was a very against police judge. It was taken away from her and our mayor, our new mayor, refused to go forward with the case. They would have wanted it repealed. If you look at it throughout the country, there are many places the argument is its a form of racial profiling. No, the argument is we have to take the guns away from these people that have them and are bad people that shouldnt have them. These are felons. These are people that are bad people that shouldnt be when you have 3,000 shootings in chicago from january 1st, when you have 4,000 People Killed in chicago by guns from the beginning of the presidency of barack obama, his hometown, you have to have stop and frisk. You need more police. You need a better community, you know, relation. U y you dont have Good Community relations in kmaug. It chicago. Its terrible. Its terrible whats going on in chicago. You go to ferguson, go to so many different places. You need better relationships. I agree with secretary clinton on this. You need better relationships between the communities and the police because in some cases its not good. But you look at dallas, where the relationships were really studied. The relationships were really a beautiful thing. And then five Police Officers were killed. One night, very violently. So theres some bad things going on. Some really bad things. Secre lester, we need law and order and we need law and order in the inner cities because the people that are most affected by whats happening are africanamerican and hispanic people. And its very unfair to them what our politicians are allowing to happen. Secretary clinton. Well, ive heard ive heard donald say this at his rallies and its really unfortunate that he negative picture of black communities in our country. The vibrancy of the black church, the black businesses that employ so many people. The opportunities that so many families are working to provide for their kids. Theres a lot that we should be proud of and we should be supporting and lifting up, but we do always have to make sure we keep people safe. There are the right ways of doing it and en that are ineffective. Stop and frisk was found to be unconstitutional and in part because it was ineffective. It did not do what it needed to do. Now, i believe in Community Policing and, in fact, Violent Crime is onehalf of what it was in 1991. Property crime is down 40 . We dont want to see it creep back up. Weve had 25 years of but there were some problem, some unintended consequences. Too many young africanamerican and latino men ended up in jail for nonviolent offenses and its just a fact that if youre a young africanamerican man and you do the same thing as a young white man, you are more likely to be arrested, charged, convicted and incarcerated. So weve got to address the systemic Justice System. We cannot just say law and order. We have to say we we have to come forward with a plan that is going to divert people from the criminal Justice System, deal with mandatory minimum sentences which have put too many people away for too long for doing too little. We need to have more secondchance programs. Im glad that were ending private prisons in the federal system. I want to see them ended in the state profit motivation to fill prison cells with young americans. So there are some positive ways we can work on this, and i believe strongly that common sense gun Safety Measures would assist us. Right now, and this is something donald has supported along with the gun lobby, right now weve got too many militarystyle weapons on the streets and a lot of places our police are outgunned. Background checks and we need to keep guns out of the hands of those who will do harm and we finally need to pass a prohibition on anyone whos on the terrorist watchlist from being able to buy a gun in our country. If youre too dangerous to fly, you are too dangerous to buy a gun. So there are things we can do and we ought to do it in a bipartisan way. Secretary clinton, last week you said weve got do Everything Possible to improve policing to go right at implicit police are implicitly biased against black people . Lester, i think implicit bias is a problem for everyone, not just police. I think, unfortunately, too many of us in our great country jump to conclusions about each other, and, therefore, i think we need all of us to be asking hard questions about, you know, why am i feeling this way . But when it comes to policing, since it can have literally fatal said in my first budget we would put money into that budget to help us deal with implicit bias by retraining a lot of our Police Officers. Ive met with a group of very distinguished, experienced Police Chiefs a few weeks ago. They admit its an issue. Theyve got a lot of concerns. Mental health is one of the biggest concerns because now police are having to handle a lot of really difficult Mental Health problems on the street. Training. They want more assistance. And i think the federal government could be in a position where we would offer and provide that. Id like to respond. Please. First of all, i agree and a lot of people even within my own party want to give certain rights to people on watch lists and nofly lists. I agree with you, when a person is on a watch list or nofly list, and i have the endorsement of the nra, which im very proud of. These are very, very good people and theyre proteg think we have to look very strongly at nofly lists and watch lists and when people are on there, even if they shouldnt be on there, well help them legally, well help them get off, but i tend to agree with that. Quite strongly. I do want to bring up the fact that you were the one that brought up the word, superpredator, about young black youth. Thats a term that i think was a its been horribly met as you know. I think youve apologized for it. But i think it was a stop and frisk, youre talking about taking gun away. Im talking about taking guns away from gangs and people that use them and i really dont think you disagree with me on this, if you want to know the truth. I think maybe theres a political reason why you cant say it, but i really dont believe in new york city, stop and frisk, we had 2,200 murders and stop and frisk brought it down to 500 murders. 500 murders is a lot of murders. Hard to believe. 500 is like supposed to be but we went from 2,200 to 500 and it was continued on by mayor bloomberg and it was terminated by current mayor. But stop and frisk had a tremendous impact on the safety of new york city, tremendous beyond belief. So when you say it has no impact, it really did. It had a very, very big impact. Well, its also fair to say, if were going to talk about mayors, that under the current mayor, crime has continued to drop including murders. So there youre wrong. Youre wrong. No, im not. You check it. New york has you check it. Done an excellent job. I give credit. I give credit across the board going back two mayors, two Police Chiefs, because it worked and other communities need to come together to do what will work as well. Look, one murder is too many, but it true. Is important that we learn about what has been effective and not go to things that sound good that really did impact that we would want. Who disagrees with keeping neighborhoods safe . But lets also add no one should disagree about respecting the rights of young men who live in those neighborhoods. And so we need to do a better job of working, again, with the communities, faith communities, business communities, as well as the police to try to deal with this problem. This conversation ask you id like to just respond if i might. Please, 20 seconds. Id like to respond. Please respond then i have a followup question. Look, the Africanamerican Community has been let down by our politicians. They talk good around election time like right now, and after the election, they say, see you later, ill see you in four years. The Africanamerican Community look, the Community Within the inner cities has been so badly treated. Theyve been abused and used in order to get politicians because thats what it is. They control these communities for up to 100 years. Mr. Trump unbroken. And i will tell you, you look at the inner cities and i just left detroit and i just left philadelphia and i just you know, youve seen me. Ive been all over the place. You decided to stay home and thats okay. But i will tell you, ive been all over and ive met some of the greatest people ill ever meet within these communities. And they are very, very upset with what their politicians have done. Mr. Trump i think donald just criticized me for preparing for this debate. And yes, i did. And you know what else i prepared for . I prepared to be president and i think thats a good thing. Mr. Trump, for five years, you perpetuated a false claim of the nations first black president was not a natural born citizen. You questioned his legitimacy. The last couple of weeks you acknowledge years, the president was born in the United States. Can you tell us what took you so long . Ill tell you well, just very simple to say. Sydney blumenthal works for the campaign and very close friend of secretary clinton. And her Campaign Manager, patti doyle, went to during the campaign, her campaign against president obama, fought very hard, and you can go check it out and if you look at cnn this past week, patti doyle was on wolf blitzer saying that this happened. Blumenthal sent mcclatchy, highly respected reporter, to kenya to find out about it. They were pressing it very hard. She failed to get the birth certificate. When i got involved, i didnt fail. I got him to give the birth certificate. So im satisfied with it. Ill tell you why im satisfied with it because i want to get on to defeating isis. I want to get on to creating jobs. I want to get on to having a strong border. Because i want to get on to things that are very important to me and that are very important to the country. Ill let you respond. Thats the point. I want to get the answer here. The birth certificate was produced in 2011. You continued to tell the story and question the president s legitimacy in 2012, the question is what changed your mind . Well, nobody was pressing it. Nobody was caring much about it. I figured youd ask the question tonight, of course. But nobody was caring much about it. But i was the one that got him to produce the birth certificate and i think i did a good job. Secretary clinton also fought it, you know, everybody in the mainstream is going to say thats not true. Sydney blumenthal sent the reporter the interview with your former Campaign Manager and she was involved. But just like she cant bring back jobs, she cant produce. Im sorry, im going to i will let you respond to that. Theres a lot there. Were talking about racial healing in this segment. What do you say to americans well, i was very i say nothing. I say nothing because i was able to get him to produce it. He should have produced it a long time before. I say nothing. But let me just tell you, when you talk about healing, i think that i developed very, very good relationships over the the Africanamerican Community. I think you can see that. And i feel that they really wanted me to come to that conclusion and i think i did a great job and a Great Service not only for the country, but even for the president in getting him to produce his birth certificate. Secretary clinton. Well, just listen to what you heard. And clearly as donald just admitted, he knew he was and lester holt was going to be asking us questions, so he tried to put the whole racist birther lie to bed. It cant be dismissed that easily. He has really started his political activity based on this racist lie that our first black president was not an american citizen. There was absolutely no evidence for it, he persisted year after year because some of his supporters, people that he was trying to bring into his fold, apparently believed it or wanted to believe it. But remember, donald started his career back in 1973 being sued by the Justice Department for Racial Discrimination because he would not rent apartments in one of his developments to africanamericans and people who worked for him understood that was the policy. He actually was sued twice by the Justice Department. So he has a long record of engaging in racist behavior. And the birther lie was a very hurtful one. You know, barack obama is a man of great dignity and i could tell how much it bothered him and was being touted and used against him, but i like to remember what Michelle Obama said in her amazing speech at our Democratic National convention. When they go low, we go high. And barack obama went high despite Donald Trumps best efforts to bring him down. Mr. Trump, you can respond then were going to move to the next segment. I would love to respond. First of all i got to debate against barack obama. You treated him with terrible disrespect and i watched the way you talk now about how lovely everything is and how wonderful you are. Doesnt work that way. You were after him. You were trying to you even sent out, your campaign sent out pictures of him in a certain garb. Very famous pictures. I dont think you can deny that. But just last week your Campaign Manager said it was true. So when you try to act holier than thou, it really doesnt work. It really doesnt. Now, as far as the into my fathers company, Real Estate Company in brooklyn and queens and we along with many, many other companies throughout the country, a federal lawsuit, were sued. We settled the suit with zero, with no admission of guilt. It was very easy to do, but they sued many people. I notice you bring that up a lot, and, you know, i also notice the very nasty commercials that you do on me and so many different ways which i dont do on you. Maybe im trying to save the money. But frankly, i look i say, isnt that amazing, because i settled that lawsuit with no admission of guilt. But that was a lawsuit brought against many real estate firms and its just one of those things. Ill go one step further. In palm beach, florida, tough community, a brilliant community, a wealthy community, probably the wealthiest community there is in the world, i opened a club and really got great credit for it. Against africanamericans, against muslims, against anybody. And its a tremendously Successful Club and im so glad i did it and i have been given great credit for what i did and im very, very proud of it. And thats the way i feel. That is the true way i feel. Our next segment is called securing america. We want to start with a 21st century war happening every day in this country. Our institutions are and our secrets are being stolen. So my question is, whos behind it and how do we fight it . Secretary clinton, this answer goes to you. Well, i think cyber security, cyber warfare, will be one of the Biggest Challenges facing the next president because clearly were facing at this point two different kinds of adversaries. There are the independent hacking groups that do it mostly for commercial reasons to try to make money. But increasingly, we are seeing Cyber Attacks coming from states. Organs of states. The most recent and troubling of these has been russia. Theres no doubt now that russia has used Cyber Attacks against all kinds of organizations in our country and i am deeply concerned about this. I know donalds very praise worthy of vladimir putin, b wong. Playing a really tough long game here. One of the things hes done is to let loose cyber attackers to hack in to government files, to hack into personal files. Hack into the Democratic National committee. And weve recently have learned that this is one of their preferred methods of trying to wreak havoc and collect information. Its russia, china, iran or anybody else, the United States has much greater capacity and we are not going to sit idly by and permit state actors to go after our information. Our private sector information, or our Public Sector information. And were going to have to make it clear that we dont want to use the kinds of tools that we have. We dont want to engage in a different kind of warfare. But we will citizens of this country and the russians need to understand that. I think theyve been treating it as almost a probing. How far will we go, how much will we do . Thats why i was so shocked when donald publicly invited putin to hack into americans. That is just unacceptable. Its one of the reasons why 50 National Security officials who served in republican information in have expired. Have said donald is unfit to be the commander in chief. Its comments like that that really worry people who understand the threats that we face. Mr. Trump, you have two minutes on the same question. Whos behind it and how do we fight it. Yeah, i do want to say i was just endorsed, more are coming next week. It will be over 200 admirals, many of them are here, admirals and generals endorsed me to lead this country. That just happened and many more are coming. And im very proud of it. In addition, i was st i. C. E. They never endorsed anybody before on immigration. I was just endorsed by i. C. E. I was just recently endorsed, 16,500 Border Patrol agents. So when secretary clinton talks about this, i mean, ill take the admirals and ill take the generals any day over the political hacks that i see that have led our country so brilliantly over the last ten years with their knowledge. Okay . Because look at the mess that were in. Look at the mess that were in. As far as the cyber, i secretary clinton said. We should be better than anybody else and perhaps were not. I dont think anybody knows it was russia that broke into the dnc. Shes saying russia, russia, russia, but i dont maybe it was. It could be russia. Could also be china. Could also be lots of other people. Also could be somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds. Okay . You dont know who broke into dnc, but what did we learn with dnc . We learned that Bernie Sanders was taken advantof by debbie wassermanschultz. Look what happened to her. But Bernie Sanders was taken advantage of. Now, whether that was russia, whether that was china, whether it was another country, we dont know because the truth is, under president obama, we lost control of things that we used to have control of. We came in with an internet, we came up with the internet. And i think secretary clinton and myself would agree very much when you look at what isis is doing with the beating us at our own game. Isis. So we have to get very, very tough on cyber and cyber warfare. It is a huge problem. I have a son, hes 10 years old. He has computers. He is so good with these computers. Its unbelievable. The security aspect of cyber is very, very tough and maybe its hardly doable, but i will say we are not doing the job we should be doin our whole governmental society. We have so many things we have to do better, lester, and certainly cyber is one of them. Secretary clinton . Well, i think there are a number of issues that we should be addressing. I have put forth a plan to defeat isis. It does involve going after them online. I think we need to do much more with our Tech Companies to prevent isis and their internet to radic radicalize, even direct people in our country and europe and elsewhere, but we also have to intensify our air strikes against isis and eventually support our arab and kurdish partners to be able to actually take out isis in raqqah, in their claim of being a caliphate. Were making progress. Our military is assisting in iraq and were hoping that be able to push isis out of iraq and then, you know, really squeeze them in syria. But we have to be cognizant of the fact that theyve had foreign fighters coming to volunteer for them, foreign money, foreign weapons. So we have to make this the top priority and i would also do Everything Possible to take out their leadership. I was involved in a number of efforts to take out al qaeda taking out bin laden. I think we need to go after baghdadi as well. Make that one of our organizing principles because weve got to defeat isis and got to do everything we can to disrupt their propaganda efforts online. You mentioned isis and we think of isis certainly as over there, but there are american citizens who have been inspired to commit acts of terror on american soil. The latest incident, of course, the bombings we just saw in new york and new jersey. The kne and the last year, deadly attacks in San Bernardino and orlando. Ill ask this to both of you. Tell us specifically how you would prevent homegrown attacks by american citizens . Mr. Trump . First, i have to say one thing. Very important. Secretary clinton is talking about taking out isis. We will take out isis. Well, president obama and secretary clinton created a vacuum the way they got out of iraq because they got out wrong. Once they got in, the way they got out was a disaster and isis was formed. She talks about taking them out. Shes been doing it a long time. Shes been trying to take them out for a long time. They wouldnt have even been formed if they left some troops behind like 10,000 or maybe something more than that. And then you wouldnt have had them. Or as ive been saying for a long time, and i think youll agree because i said it to you once, had we taken the oil, and we should have taken the oil, isis would not have either because the oil was their primary source of income and now they have the oil all over the place including the oil, a lot of the oil in libya which was another one of her disasters. Secretary clinton. Well, i hope the Fact Checkers are turning up the volume and really working hard. Donald supported the invasion of iraq. Wrong. That is absolutely wrong. Proved over and over again. Wrong. He actually advocated for the libya. And urged that gadhafi be taken out after actually doing some business with him one time. But the larger point, he says this constantly, is george w. Bush made the agreement about when american troops would leave iraq. Not barack obama. And the only way that american troops could have stayed in iraq is to get an agreement from the have protected our troops and the Iraqi Government would not give that. But lets talk about the question you asked, lester. The question you asked is what do we do here in the United States . Thats the most important part of this. How do we prevent attacks . How do we protect our people . And i think weve got to have an intelligence surge where we are looking for every scrap of information. I was so proud of Law Enforcement in new york, in minnesota, in so professionally, to the attacks that occurred by rahami and they brought him down and we may find out more information because he is still alive, which may prove to be an intelligence benefit. So weve got to do everything we can to vacuum up intelligence from europe, from the middle east. That means weve got to work more closely with our allies. And thats something that donald has been very dismissive were working with nato, the Longest Military Alliance in the history of the world, to really turn our attention to terrorism. Were working with our friends in the middle east. Many of which, as you know, are muslim majority nations. Donald has consistently insulted muslims abroad. Muslims at home. When we need to be cooperating with muslim nations and with the american muslim community. Theyre on the front lines. They can provide anywhere else. They need to have close working cooperation with Law Enforcement in these communities. Not be alienated and pushed away as some of donalds rhetoric, unfortunately, has led to. Mr. Well, i have to respond. Please respond. The secretary said, very strongly, about working with weve been working with them for many years and we have the greatest mess anyones ever seen. You look at the middle east. Its a total mess. Underr you look at the middle east. You started the iran deal. Thats another beauty where you have a country that was ready to fall, i mean, it was doing so badly, they were choking on the sanctions and now theyre going to be actually probably a major power at some point pretty soon the way theyre going. But when you look at nato, i was asked on a major show, what do you think of nato . You have to understand, im a businessperson. I did really well, but i have common sense. And i said, well, ill tell you, i havent given lots of thought things. Number one, the 28 countries of nato, many of them arent paying their fair share. Number two, and that bothers me because we should be were defending them. They should at least be paying us what theyre supposed to be paying by treaty and contract. And number two, i said, and very strongly, nato could be obsolete because and i was very strong on this. It was actually covered very accurately in the New York Times which is unusual for the New York Times to be honest. But i said, they do not s and i was very strong. And i said it numerous times and about four months ago, i read on the front page of the wall street journal that nato is opening up a major Terror Division and i think thats great. And i think we should get, because we pay approximately 73 of the cost of nato, its a lot of money to protect other people. But im all for nato, but i said they have to focus on terror also. And theyre going to do that. That was largely because of what i was saying and my criticism of nato. I think we have to get nato to go into the middle east with us in addition to surrou surrounding nations and we have to knock the hell out of isis and we have to do it fast. When isis formed in this vacuum created by barack obama and secretary clinton, and believe me, you were the ones that took out the troops. Not only that, you named the day. They it. They sat back probably and said lester, we covered this wait a minute. They said wait a minute, when they formed, this is something that never should have happened. It never should have happened. Now youre talking about taking out isis. But you were there and you were secretary of state when it was a little infant. Now its in over 30 countries and youre going to stop them . I dont think so. Mr. Trump, with a lot of these are judgment questions. You had supported the war in iraq before the invasion. What makes your i did not support Mainstream Media nonsense put out by her because she frankly i think the best person in her campaign is Mainstream Media. My question would you like to hear . I was against wait a minute. I was against the war in iraq. Just so you put it out. The record shows otherwise. Why the record does not show why is your judgment any the record shows that im right. When i did an interview with howard stern, very likely first time anyones asked me that, i very likel li asked me that, i said, very likelghtly, i dont know, maybe, who knows, essentially. I then did an interview with neil cavuto, talked about the economy is more important. I spoke to sean hannity, everybody refuses to call sean hannity. I had numerous conversations with sean hannity at fox and sean hannity said, and he called me the other day, and i spoke to him about it. He said, you were totally against the war. He was for the war. Why is your judgment better that was before the and other people, hes willing to say, but nobody wants to call him. I was against the war. He said, you used to have fights with me because sean was in favor of the war. I understand that side also. Not very much, because we should have never been there. But nobody calls sean hannity. Then they did an article in a major magazine shortly after the war started i think in 04, but they did an article which had me totally against the war in iraq. And one of your co before or right after, trump was definite because if you read this article, theres no doubt. But if somebody, and ill ask the press, if somebody would call up sean hannity, this was before the war started, he and i used to have arguments about the war. I said its a terrible and a stupid thing. Its going to destabilize the middle east and thats exactly what its done. My reference was what you had said in 2002. My question was you didnt hear what i said. Why is your judgment than she does. Theres no question about that. I also have a much better temperament than she has. You know . I have a much better she spent, let me tell you, she spent hundreds of millions of dollars on an advertising you know, they get madison avenue into a room, they put names oh, temperament, lets go after it. I think my strongest asset, maybe by far, is my temperament. I have a winning temperament. I know how to win. She does not secretary clinton . Wait. The aflcio the other screen, i dont know who you were talking to, secretary clinton, but you were totally out of control. I said, theres a person with a temperament thats got a problem. Secretary clinton. Whew. Okay. Lets talk about two important issues that were briefly mentioned by donald. First nato. You know, nato as a article 5 and basically it says this. An attack on one is an attack on all. And you know, the only time its ever been invoked after 9 11 when the 28 nations of nato said that they would go to afghanistan with us to fight terrorism. Something that they still are doing by our side. With respect to iran, when i became secretary of state, from having enough Nuclear Material to form a bomb. They had mastered the Nuclear Fuel Cycle under the bush administration. They had built covert facilities. They had stocked them with centrifuges that were whirling away. And we had sanctioned them. I voted for every sanction against iran when i was in the senate, but it wasnt enough. So i spent a year and a half putting together a coalition that included russia on iran. And we did drive them to the negotiating table and my successor, john kerry, and president obama got a deal that put a lid on Irans Nuclear program. Without firing a single shot. Thats diplomacy. Thats coalition building. Thats working with other nations. The other day, i saw donald saying that there were some iranian sailors on a ship in the waters off of iran taunting american sailors who were on a nearby ship. He said, you know, if they taunted our sailors, id blow them out of the water and start another war. Thats that would not start a war. Thats not judgment. That is not the right temperament to be commander in chief. To be taunted. And the worst part no, they were taunting us. I heard donald say has been about Nuclear Weapons. He has said repeatedly other nations got Nuclear Weapons, japan, south korea, even saudi arabia. It has been the policy of the United States. Democrats and republicans to do everything we could to reduce the proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. He even said, well, you know, if there were nuclear war in the east asia, well, you know, thats fine, you know. Wrong. Have a good time, folks. And, in fact, his cavalier attitude about Nuclear Weapons is so deeply that is the numberone threat we face in the world and it becomes particularly threatening if terrorists ever get their hands on any Nuclear Material. So a man who can be provoked by a tweet should not have his fingers anywhere near the Nuclear Codes as far as i think anyone with any sense about this should be concerned. Getting a little bit old, i must say. Its a good one, though. Well describes the problem. Its not an accurate one at all. A lot of thing, just to respond. I agree with her on one thing. The single greatest problem the world has is nuclear armament, Nuclear Weapons. Not Global Warming like you think and your president thinks. Nuclear is the single greatest threat. Just to go down the list, we defend japan, we defend germany, we defend south korea, we defend saudi arabia, we defend countries. Ey but they should be paying us because we are providing Tremendous Service and losing a fortune. Thats why were losing were losing we lose on everything. I say who makes the these we lose on everything. All i said that its very possible that if they dont pay a fair share, because this isnt 40 years ago where we could do what were doing. We cant defend japan, a we have to move on. They may have to defend themselves or help us out. We owe 20 trillion. They have to help us out. As far as the nuclear is concerned, i agree, it is the single greatest threat that this country has. Which leads to my next question as we enter our last segment, on the subject of securing naerk. On Nuclear Weapons, president obama reportedly considered changing the nations longstanding policy on first use. Do you support the current policy . Mr. Trump, you hav i have to say, for what secretary clinton was saying about nuclear with russia, shes very cavalier in the way she talks about various countries but russia has been expanding. They have a much newer capability than we do. We have not been updating from the new standpoint. I looked the other night, i was seeing b52s, theyre old enough that your father, your grandfather could be flying them. We are not we are not keeping up with other countries. I would like everybody certainly not do first strike. I think that once the Nuclear Alternative happens, its over. At the same time, we have to be prepared. I cant take anything off the table because you look at some of these countries, you look at north korea, were doing nothing there. China should solve that problem for us. China should go into north korea. China is totally powerful as it relates to north korea. And by the way, another one powerful is the worst deal i negotiated that you started is the iran deal. Iran is one of their biggest trading partners. Iran has power over north korea. And when they made that horrible deal with iran, they should have included the fact that they do something with respect to north korea and they should have done something with respect to yemen and all these other places. And when asked to secretary kerry, why didnt you do that, why didnt you add other things into the giveaways of alltime, of alltime, including 400 million in cash, nobodys ever seen that before, that turned out to be wrong. It was actually 1. 7 billion in cash. Obviously, i guess, for the hostages. It certainly looks that way. So you say to yourself, why didnt they make the right deal . This is one of the worst deals ever made by any country in history. The deal with iran will lead to nuc all they have to do is sit back ten years and they dont have to do much. Your two minutes has expired. I met with Bibi Netanyahu the other day. Believe me, he is not a happy camper. All right. Mrs. Clinton, secretary clinton, you have two minutes. Let me start by saying words matter. Words matter when you run for president and they really matter when you are president. And i want to reassure our allies in japan, in south korea, and treaties and we will honor them. It is essential that americas word be good and so i know that this campaign has caused some questioning and some worries on the part of many leaders across the globe. Ive talked with a number of them, but i want to, on behalf of myself and i think on behalf of a majority of the American People, say that, you know, our word is. That we look at the entire global situation. Theres no doubt that we have other problems with iran, but personally, id rather deal with the other problems having put that lid on their Nuclear Program than still to be facing that. And donald never tells you what he would do. Would he have started a war . Would he have bombed iran . If hes going to criticize a deal that has been very successful in giving facilities that we never had before, then he should tell us what his alternative would be, but its like his plan to defeat isis. He says its a secret plan, but the only secret is that he has no plan. So we need to be more precise in how we talk about these issues. People around the world follow our president ial campaigns so closely trying to get hints about what we will do. Can they rely on us . The world with strength and in accordance with our values . Thats what i intend to do. I intend to be a leader of our country that people can count on both here at home and around the world to make decisions that will further peace and prosperity, but also stand up to bullies whether theyre abroad or at home. We cannot let those who would try to destabilize the world american interests and security. Your two minutes given any opportunities at all. Is expired. Lester, one thing id like to say. Very quickly. 20 seconds. I will go very quickly but i will tell you that hillary will tell you to go to her website and read all about how to defeat isis which she could have defeated by never having it get going in the first place. Right now its getting tougher and tougher to defe defeat them. Theyre in more and mr. Trump. Its a big problem. As far as japan is concerned, i want to help all of our allies. Were losing billions and billions of dollars. We cannot be the policemen of the world. Wi we can not protect countries all over the world where theyre not paying us what we need. We have a few final questions. She doesnt say that because shes got no business ability. We need heart, a lot of things. You have to have some basic ability. Sadly, she doesnt have that. All of the things that shes talking about last ten years, lets say, while she had great power but they werent taken care of. If she ever wins this race, they wont be taken care of. Mr. Trump, this year secretary clinton became the first woman nominated for president by a major party. Earlier this month you said she doesnt have, a president ial look. Shes standing here right now. What did you mean by that . She doesnt have the look. She doesnt have the stamina. I said she doesnt have the stamina. And i dont believe she does have the stamina. To be president of this tremendous stamina. The quote was i just dont think she has wait a minute. You asked me a question. Did she ask me a question . You have to be able to negotiate on trade deals. You have to be able to negotiate thats right, with japan, with saudi arabia. I mean, can you imagine were defending saudi arabia and with all of the money they have, were defending them and theyre not paying . All you have to do is speak to them. Wait, you have so many Different Things you have to be able to do stamina. Lets let her respond. Well, as soon as he travels to 112 countries and negotiates a peace deal, a ceasefire, a release of dissidents, an opening of new opportunities in nations around the world, or even spends 11 hours testifying in front of a congressional committee, he can talk to me about stamina. The world let me let me tell you. Hillary has experience but its bad experience. We have made so many bad deals during the last so shes got experience that i agree, but its bad, bad experience. Whether its the iran deal that youre so in love with where we gave them 150 billion back. Whether its the iran deal, whether its anything you you almost cant name a good deal. I agree, shes got experience, but its afford to have another four years of that kind of experience. We are at the were at the final question well, one thing very quickly because were at the final question. He tried to switch from looks to stamina, but this is a man who has called women pigs, slobs, and dogs and someone who has said pregnancy is an inconvenience to employers. Who has said i never said that. Who have said unless they do as good a job as men. Didnt say. And one of the worst things he said was about a woman in a beauty contest. He loves beauty contests, supporting them and hanging around them. And he called this woman miss piggy. Then he called her miss housekeeping because she was latina. Donald, she has a name. Where did you find this . Where did you find this . Citizen and you can bet shes going to vote this november. Okay. Good. Let me just tell you mr. Trump, ten seconds then well have the final question. You know, hillary is hitting me with tremendous commercials. Some of its said in entertainment, some of it said, somebody whos been very vicious to me, rosie odonnell, i said very tough things to her and i think everybody would agree that she deserves it and nobody feels sorry for her. But you want to know the truth . I was going to Say Something please, very to hillary, to her family and i said to myself, i cant do it. I just cant do it. Its inappropriate. Its not nice. But she spent hundreds of millions of dollars on negative ads on me. Many of which are absolutely untrue, theyre untrue and misrepresentations. I will fell you this, lester. Its not nice and i dont i dont deserve that but its certainly not a nice thing that shes done. Its hundreds of polls come in today and with all of that money, over 200 million is spent and im either winning or tied. One of you i spent practically nothing. One of you one of you will not win this election. So my final question to you tonight, are you willing to accept the outcome as the will of the voter . Secretary clinton. Well, i support our democracy, and sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but i certainly will support the outcome this election. And i know donalds trying very hard to plant doubts about it, but i hope the people out there understand this elections really up to you. Its not about us so much as it is about you and your families and the kind of country and future you want. So i sure hope you will get out and vote as though your future depended on it because i think it does. Mr. Trump, very quickly. The same question. Will you accept the outcome as the will of the voters . I want to make America Great again. Is seriously troubled. Were losing our jobs. People are pouring in to our country. The other day we were deporting 800 people. Perhaps they pressed the wrong button. They pressed the wrong button. Or perhaps worse than that, it was corruption. But these people that we were going to deport, for good reason, ended up becoming citizens. Ended up becoming citizens. And it was 800 and now it turns out it might be 1,800 and they dont even know. Will you a election . I want to make America Great again. Im going to be able to do it. I dont believe hillary will. The answer is if she wins, i will absolutely support her. All right. That is going to do it for us. That concludes our debate for this evening. A spirited one. We covered a lot of ground. Not everything. As i suspected we wouldnt. Would. The next president ial debates are scheduled for october 9th in Washington University in st. Louis. And october 19th at the university of nevada las vegas. The conversation will continue. A reminder the vice 4th at Longwood University in farmville, virginia. My thanks to Hillary Clinton and to donald trump. And to Hofstra University for hosting us tonight. Good night, everyone. First president ial debate of this Campaign Season is in the record books. Hillary clinton, donald trump taking questions for over 90 minutes. Went a little bit long. And we see them now mod raerator lester holt and expect them to greet their families as is tradition on these nights. Chuck todd, ill turn to you first. What did we witness tonight . Do you think either candidate moved the needle in their directions . Before i want to talk about the candidates, this most an nationbnormal event ive ever witnessed. Not a normal political debate. Lets not sit here and pretend we saw something that was a quadrennial occasion here. This was as surreal as some thought it might candidates didnt lie to us about how they prepared for this debate. Hillary clinton was at times even, you could argue overprepared in her Opening Statement must have had 15 policy proposals within that two minutes. And that was donald trump who weve all come to cover on this campaign. That was the same donald trump. Very reactive. He was filled with emotion. He had a couple of decent moments at the top. But there were times where i didnt understand the point he was making. I have to say, this tougher and tougher for trump and it exposed his lack of preparation. Tom brokaw, win, lose or draw . Well, i think its settled on points. It was not a knockout evening and people are going to be at home adding up the points. And i think that hillarys composure and mastery of the detail was consistent throughout and she was pleasant throughout. Even when she turned to donald trump. Donald trump started in a more organized fashion than weve the kind of bombast that hes used now. My guess is that he probably kept his constituency, but i dont think he pulled anybody across the line. Im with you there. The pugilistic aspect of him is what excites his voters. You hear it. The first spontaneous moment in a debate audience i remember covering the things is when he said, oesh yeah, ill release my tax returns when she does her emails. The pugilism of him is boy, when it came to the birther question, when if came to questions about women, he did not do anything to help him add to his support total. I dont know how suburban republicans who have had doubts about him going into this debate, i dont know what he did to somehow win them over. I think that there was one moment that was in which they were both playing to the constituency. She was not critical at all of blackonblack crime. She was defending, in community and saying we got to have reform in the criminal Justice System which we do. No question about that. A lot of people are troubled about blackonblack crime. He went completely to the police piece of it. They were dividing up the black constituentties and playing to their people at that point. As we talk here, were looking at pictures. Preside president bill clinton in the hall tonight, not his National Course of action in a debate. Normally when you see a president in the hall at one of these things theyre running for reelection. There he is. I want to bring in and of course has been a veteran of the republican campaigns past. Nicolle, as i go to you i guess the question this morning is if this debate were fought on demeanors, on the ground of who is more likable, who has addressed some of the character or temperament issues that have dogged both of them, frankly, in this campaign, do you think one side or the other comes out on top . Well, listen, the expectations for Hillary Clinton couldnt have been higher and she met those expectations tonight. But i think that we would be incorrect to think that what we told us time and time again is that with donald trump, they hold him to a different standard. I remember in the republican primary after the South Carolina debate, lot of people watched that and thought that he would be out of the race within days. He blamed 9 11 on george w. Bush. It was really a calamitous performance. Not only did he win South Carolina, but he won that state running away. It was the end of jeb bushs candidacy. So these debate performances from donald trump are not always experienced by political veterans and political operatives like me see them. So i agree with chuck todd that it was surreal, but i think he probably connected on the question of trade. I think there are some people out there certainly in his base that appreciated his answers of law and order, but in the sum of the performance from each, she certainly looked more president ial. Im just not sure thats the standard by which were going to pick the next president. Nicolle, i want to go to the preparation issue. Youve been involved you tell me it is clear no one showed him a videotape of him on mute. Because during the split screens, boy did i think if he had seen himself in reaction shots he might have changed his demeanor. You know, i sent a text to one of our colleagues when i first started seeing that shot and, you know, in these general election debates, every moment of your performance is televised and it was indecipherable from a saturday night live skit. His faces and grimaces. You know, again, im just imt going to hold that against him. They like that hes real. They like that he emotes. I agree with your assessment earlier, i dont think he pulled anyone new into his cause with tonightsle wallacee appreciate that. Were joined by david plouffe, veteran democratic strategist who won Barack Obamas campaigns back in 2008. Also was on 2012. David, good evening to you. I guess the question is, well just let you have a freebie here. How do you think your candidate did . I mean, i think one person was prepared to be president. One person wasnt prepared. There was big moments. I mean, basically s saying he was smart not to pay taxes, celebrated fact he took advantage of the housing crisis, lied about the iraq war and asking people to call sean hannity. Maybe some of his supporters liked it. Im sure they did. Hes losing in the election. He needs to gain support. I dont think he did anything to do that. I think Hillary Clinton was strong, she needed to be and connected with a lot of undecided voters out there. David, dont you think trump scored points on this issue of trade and also the fact that Hillary Clinton had been at this for quite a long time . She talks about hue she wants to solve problems. Shes had those opportunities and hasnt seized on them. Did he score only points there . Well, i dont think so. He tried to in the longevity. I appreciate what he was trying to do. But no one watching that debate in my view whos not a trump partisan think this is anybody whos got solutions to plans. Unhinged and unmoored particularly as the debate went on. He talked about his temperament. Anybody watching the end of the debate would raise questions. Trade is an important debate. She did a good job of explaining how she approaches trade. Again, i think somebody looking at this debate whos not sure if theyre going to vote for trump or clinton, i dont think trump gave them anything. I think it was a pretty dominating performance. Very lopsided if you ask me. Ive been through a few of these. Been on the righte them. I think this was a very lopsided win for Hillary Clinton. David plouffe who was, of course, on team clinton tonight, as a surrogate. Thank you so much. By the way, were going to talk to Rudy Giuliani on behalf of the Trump Campaign in a few moments. When we come back, our coverage continues. Chuck todd has picked key moments from the debate. Were going to look at those and assess how the two campaigns are feeling after the showdown. Well be right back . Before it became a medicine, it was an idea. So scientists went to work. They examined 87 different protein structures and worked for 12 long years. There were thousands of patient volunteers and the hope of millions. And so after it became a medicine, someone who couldnt be cured, could be. Me. Were back live at Hofstra University. And the spin room is active. The spinners are spinning. The correspondents are there. Katy tur whos covered the Trump Campaign from the beginning. Katy, good evening, what are you hearing back there . The donald Trump Campaign wanted him to come out and be president ial, wanted him to not fall for unnecessarily. They were going for moderate republicans. They were going for women. Those are the folks that they need to win over this election. To add to his base of support. To get him past that 40 mark. Did he get those folks today . It does not seem like he is going to break ground with them. Donald trump fell for a lot of Hillary Clintons traps, if you will. He interrupted her repeatedly. He didnt act as president ial as the campaign had hoped he would earlier on. In all, though, savannah, we saw the during the primary season. Not the president ial donald trump that the campaign was hoping for. All right. Katie to ta. Lets go to andrea accompli mitchell, the clinton campaign, what are the moments they hope will be remembered the most . Certainly her comments about women. When donald trump said she didnt look president ial and then the way she seized on that said that he had pivoted from stamina to from look to stamina and that anyone who had traveled arou traveled around to 112 countries and sat through 11 hours of the benghazi hearings, countered him on the women issue and the way he talked about women, talked about the latina woman who was a beauty contestant in a suggesting she had guilty of racist behavior going back to when he began his business in 1973. I think she was on the defensive on trade, on jobs. The economic issues, even though she had a lot of facts on her side were not as compelling to the way he was reaching out to his base. But not adding to that base. All right, andrea. I will let you go back into the spin room as they spin around. Hallie jackson is there, too. Im sure you were looking at your iphone whats the conversation on social media, what are the moments that are really standing out . Some activity here, savannah, before we get to those moments. Donald trump, his Campaign Manager Kellyanne Conway coming in the spin room right now. Im going to keep an ear on them and talk to you. Mr. Trump, were live on nbc network. Youre seeing the Trump Campaign wishing they had had more about benghazi, about her emails. Mr. Trump, were live on nbc right now. Mr. Trump. Lets listen in, savannah, right now. And my questio you admitted you hadnt paid federal taxes and that that was smart. Is that what you meant to say . I didnt say that at all. If they say i didnt, it doesnt matter. I will say this. I hate the way our government spends our taxes. Because they are wasting our money. They dont know what theyre doing. Theyre running it so poorly. Whether its spent in iraq or wherever theyre spending it, they are wasting our money. So i do hate the way our government spends our money. Mr. Trump, that birther moment got a do you say what you said why dont you speak to wolf blitzer because i got to see that on wolf blitzer. In terms of just, she was explaining what happened because she was there. Why dont you see you said when she fired a volunteer for was in trafficking in saying that he was a muslim, not about birtherism. Why dont you do this . Why dont you see the reporter from mcclatchy, speak to sydney blumenthal because hes never going to tell you the truth. Take a quick look at blitzer. Do you apologize for the birther pass . I got him to put up his birth certificate. Hillary clinton failed because she cant bring it home. Shell fail with jobs and fail all the way along the line. I think we proved that tonight. She failed with getting him to do it. I got limb to do. Im proud of that. Will you accept the outcome of this election, mr. Trump . Say it . Will you accept the outcome of the election . Absolutely i will. All right. Savannah, that was a live look at donald his Campaign Manager Kellyanne Conway behind him. Trump talking a bit about some of the moments tonight particularly the birther moment. Republican operatives texting me tonight, one calling it devastating. We will see how this plays out with the crucial undecided voters. Savannah . Hallie jackson, thank you so much. Who needs surrogates when you have the candidate, himself . Chuck, you mentioned tonight was surreal. Have you ever seen a president ial candidate actually go into the spinroom and do this o own spin . Creature of the media. Name drops members of the media, whether sean hannity, wolf blitzer. There was a few networks left out. I mean, my gosh, he does do that. Can we just there was a big loser tonight. I think it was the American Public for this reason. They spent almost, i would say, 75 minutes talking about themselves. Talking about defending themselves or going after each other. I have to say this wasnt early on we got a little bit of back and forth on trade and i thought there were times where they just blew past i have a feeling there is going to be this frustration from voters about the lack of substance. By the way, weve already seen that frustration. People are fairly frustrated. I thought you saw a frustrated donald trump. He didnt stop and say, i had a great evening, did you see what she did . He kept on trucking. He was doing a doover on trade and on the deficit because he didnt think he probably put that one away when he was on the stage. Both of them came tonight trying to attract voters that are still sitting out there in the middle. They needed to get them to their side. Its always a guess, but my guess is that he held on to his constituency, i dont think he brought a lot of people across the line tonight because this as i said earlier, were going from spring training now into the season. People are looking whos going to be the president and is that the president that i want . And the country is deciding, well know more tomorrow. Next the alonzo hyde baseball family remembers his love of the game, how they knew he was destined for greatness she ate like a pig. A person whos flat chested is very hard to be a 10. Does she have a good body . No. Does she have a fat [expletive] . Absolutely. Do you treat women with respect . I cant say that either. He was a local rapper and team. His life was taken when gunfire erupted and you wont believ where it happened. We knock on the door of the person of interest next. And that about does it for our coverage this evening. Chuck, in about 20 seconds, whats your final thought, your verdict on this . Well know how the candidates feel tomorrow morning. How pugilistic are either side . The more aggressive candidate tomorrow morning is the one who always. Chuck and tom, great to have you with us. By way, the next debate takes place october 4th between Vice President ial candidates tim kaine and mike pence. Coverage of tonights debate continues right now on msnbc. We will have full coverage first thing in the morning on today, later on nightly news with lester holt. Chuck todd, tom brokaw and our entire nbc news team, im savannah guthrie. Were glad you were with us tonight. Have a great evening. Well see you tomorrow morning. Right now on news channel 8 at 11 00. A local rap artist shot and killed and police know who did it. So why is the gunman not facing is causing heartache in the bay area. Plus one down, two to go, the first president ial debate in the record books and news channel 8 is there, a live report from new york coming up. Good evening. Im keith cate. Im jennifer leigh. Thank you for joining us this evening. Police in haines city are investigating the shooting death of Jonathan Jordan, a local rap artist. They know who pulled the trigger, but that man has not been charged news channel 8 Melissa Moreno shows us the growing memorial where family held a vigil tonight. Reporter family and friends have been gathering here all evening grieving. Right here behind me you can see this growing memorial. He coached his sons Football Team here and less than a block away is where he was shot. This video shows Jonathan Jordan smiling ear to ear. His son and teammates are celebrating in the background after a big victory. Just hours later his life ended after an argument by the field
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