Transcripts For WETA Charlie Rose 20100821

building since the late '50s, which bought about the breach in the levees and put the city, the city of new orleans 80% underwater. and it was greed on the part of b.p. that brought the greatest oil disaster in the world. >> . >> rose: we continue with vincent cassel whose latest movie is called mayrecent. >> i think moviemakering is important when it becomes a part of your life, and not just a job. so meeting your wife, taking part of something political, being part of that young, angry mankind of directors, you know, that it was attached with. all these things really helped me to build myself as a human being, really. >> shah mahmood, qureshi, the filmmaker spike lee, and the actor vincent cassel when we continue. >> rose: funding for charlie rose was provided by the following captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> the flooding in pakistan is the country's worst natural disaster in its history. one fifth of the country is underwater. more than 20 million people have been affected. an estimated 1600 people have died and some say the figure may be more. millions are in urgent need of food, emergency shelter, and clean drinking water. u.n. secretary-general ben ki-moon has called it a slow motion tsunami yet international bon donors have been slow to raise the u.n. target of $460 million. a swren meeting of the assembly was held yesterday to mobilize support. secretary of state hillary clinton spoke at the session. >> the united states has and continues to take swift action to help. and on behalf of president obama and the american people, i want to state our resolve to help pakistan meet the immediatesy of this crisis and then to recover from it. i want the people of pakistan to know that the united states will stand with you during this crisis. we will be with you as rivers rise and fall. we will be with you as you replant your fields and repair your roads. we will be with you as you meet the long term challenges to build a stronger nation, and a better future. with a new pledge that i am making today of 60 million dollars, united states will be contributing more than 150 million toward emergency flood relief. approximately 92 million of that total is in direct support of the u.n. relief plan. >> rose: there are also some concerns that islamic militants will explore the crisis of 60,000 pakistani troops have been diverted to help with relief work. joining me now is pakistan's foreign minister shah mahmood qureshi. i'm pleased to have him back at this table. welcome foreign minister. >> thank you. >> rose: what have you accomplished this week here in the united states and at the united nations? >> i think there were two major events yesterday. both very encouraging. the first was at the asia society where ngos and important privatizations and corporations of the u.s.a. were present. and they were enthusiastic in their support and i could see them involved in the question. they were really in it. and the second important session was the general assembly special session on the flood situation in pakistan. if you look at the level of participation, if you look at the interventions made and by the way, the session is still going on it was supposed to be for three hours but the interest shown was so huge that right now as we are talking, the discussion is going on and more commitments are being made. now the encouraging thing is that the 460 million initial appeal launched by the u.n. would comfortably be met after this session. so that is a very positive development. the other positive development is that people like you, your program and many other channels for the first time have actually picked up and shown to the world the magnitude of the problem. the scale of the problem. two weeks ago people were not of how a serious the challenge was. today i think they are. >> rose: ambassador holbrooke was here earlier this week saying it was a primary area of concern in washington and the state department because of the risk it made to pakistan and whatever political significant it might have. >> uh-huh. >> rose: they have reflected that to you. >> yes, obviously they are working closely with us. and we have had a very good round of talks. when secretary clinton was in islamabad on the 20th of july. and we have shared objectives in the region. you know, we are allies, fighting extremism and terrorism. so any sort of situation that diverts our attention away from that immediate challenge that we are facing is of concern to both sides. >> rose: let me just refer to one other aid circumstance. pakistan, this is from "the financial times" today. pakistan is to ask the international monetary fund to ease restriction on a $10 billion loan it received in 2008 after concluding that the devastating floods had made the conditions attached to the lending program impossible to meet. has that happened? >> we are going to talk to them. and i think the finance minister of pakistan will be engaging with the imf, the world bank and the international financial institutions. our point of view is that we had agreed to certain benchmarks. you know, in this budget when the budget was passed in june this year. there was a fiscal deficit target. there was a gross target. there was an inflation target and many of the targets that we had mutually agreed to. now the flood has devastated the economy in a major way. standing crops worth billions of dollars have just gone. the infrastructure loss is huge. we will have to revisit our budget. we will have to reprioritize our allocations. and what we are going to share with them is this is what we had agreed. this is the situation. see for yourself. do your research. do your analysis. and sit and renegotiate the targets with us. >> in terms of the donations you have received, have most nations stepped forward that you expected. have you heard from china? have you heard from india? have they done what you expected them to do because they're neighbors? >> china has. and they're making another announcement today. as they speak in the general assembly. they have agreed to look after a sizable population which has become inaccessible because of some of the bridges were sort of swept away. and they are inaccessible by road. so they are going to access them from their side of the border and provide them food and shelter and protection. india has also offered assistance. you know, the prime minister of india called the prime minister of pakistan yesterday and offered assistance which was a very positive and a very welcome gesture on their part. and pakistan would respond positively to that. >> rose: there was in the beginning a sense that the world was slow to wake-up. there was an editorial in "the new york times" stating as much. slow to wake up to the consequences and the severity of this flood. has that slowness been overcome by an increase in the response? >> i think it is. it was slow to begin with. and we were worried. but then i met with some very seasoned experienced people who had experienced in dealing with natural disasters. and they were telling me that their international experience tells them that a response, an international response to a tsunami, to an earthquake, has always been different to a flood situation. and you know, the damage of the flood situation can vary. but now as the world is realizing that this is not just a flood, this is a megaflood this is a flood of the century, and they have realized how extensive the damage is. so they have come to our support. i think the response is picking up rapidly. today's, yesterdays and today's session will contribute. the secretary-general and secretary clinton, myself, we discussed another possibility of an international event on the 19th of september here in new york. we have also agreed to an event in brussels and the european union. >> the pakistani people know they have not been forgotten? >> i think that was the message that i wanted conveyed yesterday. and i think it was conveyed. >> what is necessary now. i mean what are the problems. >> oh, the problems immediately are rescue. you know, people who have been marooned. people are inaccessible. people who are starving to be pulled out and brought to a safer places. you know, picked up by helicopters. the other challenge is providing them food, many, many millions have been displaced. their homes have been either washed away or damaged to an extent that they are no longer livable. so they have to be provided shelter. they have to be provided food. then the immediate challenge is waterborne diseases. the casualties so far as you mentioned have not been very high, close to 1600 as compared to the earthquake where we had 80,000 casualties. but that can grow and grow rapidly if there is an epidemic. and we have to guard against it. so provision of medicines is equally important. drinking water, clean drinking water is an immediate necessity. >> you mentioned the number 450 or 60 million that the u.n. or you and the u.n. set. is the requirement going to be significantly more than that? >> well, certainly. this 460 million dollars is k to 4, these four clusters that i spoke about for a period of 90 days and covering 6 to 8 million people only. mind you, we have 20 million people affected. so the rest will have to come from additional resources that we generate and national resources that we divert, cut down our development expenditures. cut down our nondevelopment expenditures and focus them on the effectees. >> at a time like this people are touched and they want to reach out. privately as well as nongovernmental organizations as well as governments. some worry always in circumstances like this, are the funds reaching the source of the issue and the source of the pain and the source of the devastation? >> first of all, most of the funds that have been utilized so far have gone through the u.n. system. >> right. >> through credible institutions, established by the international community. one, two we have now set up an organization after the 2005 disaster called ndma, national disaster management authority. a reputable person is in charge of that. three, there are many engineers and civil society organizations in pakistan that have a very good record of their performance, accountable, to their activities. they have stepped in. youth pakistan has stepped in. you know, caring people, youngsters who are doing it out of dedication, not to sort of pilfer. then we also set up a new national oversight council of credible people that will ensure transparency and efficient use of this relief. >> what are the political ramifications of this? >> well, if there are food shortages, that will cause instability. poverty figures will rise. and if poverty rises, prices of food items will obviously rise. and that will create sort o of-- creates opportunities. >> that creates anxiety and that can create political trouble. >> rose: there was a huge picture on the front of "the new york times" showing islamic charities, this was early in, saying that they were there and they were demonstrating a commitment to help. and that they wanted to make sure that the people of pakistan understood they were by tir side when others weren't. what's the reality of that. >> well, you should not forget that they are very savvy. they are very smart. and there is a bit of a propaganda element in what they were saying and trying to do. but what we have to do is not to give them the space to operate in. reach out to the people ourselves. nationally and internationally. and they will create a lot of ruckus. they will make a lot of statements but in physical delivery, i don't think they can do that. you know, as compared to the national effort or the international effort. >> so they can't match their words with deeds. >> exactly. exactly. >> where is pakistani army and what's the role they're playing? >> the pakistani army has been deployed to help flood victims. and they have done a tremendous job in the initial phase by evacuating hundreds and thousands of people, you know, who could have been under threat. their life could be under threat. and they have done a tremendous job, over 60,000 people were deployed for this very activity. and they have done a great job. but we have not disturbed our deployments in areas and troops that were fighting the militants. >> rose: has this had any impact in terms of the battle against the taliban that you are conducting? >> none whatsoever. >> rose: none whatsoever. >> yeah. the troops that have been deployed for that job have not been disturbed. they carry out what-- . >> rose: the battle continues at the same level it was. >> yes, they continue. and these are additional troops that have been deployed for flood work. mind you, the militants have not let off despite the missery, despite the devastation, despite the humanitarian, you know, situation in pakistan. >> rose: they have continued their struggle. >> they have continued their bombs. they have continued their kills. and they have, you know, continued their callous behavior. >> rose: there was a note this week, and will you help me understand this, basically that a lim... that there had been an analysis of where the greatest threat came to pakistan. and that it said there was a new judgement and realization that it was from taliban rather than from india. >> uh-huh. >> rose: what's the consequences of that and what exactly did it is a. >> see, what it, i think there is a greater realization that the immediate threat is internal and not external. and so we have to focus on the western border and we have to focus on these elements who are trying to destabilize pakistan and create a security situation and threaten national security within pakistan. >> but you have more troops on the kazmir border than on the western border. >> well, the troop deployment that we have on the western border is unprecedented. you know, we have close to 150,000 troops deployed on the western border. we've never had that before. so that is a significant realization of this. >> rose: that was the question. >> and so we can see more of that in terms of a shift of troops from the kazmir border over to -- >> that is why pakistan has been continuously asking for normalization with india. that is why pakistan has been articulating the resumption of the composite dialogue that was suspended after the mum buy attacks. so that when we have ease on the eastern front, we can focus on the western front. >> are you making any progress in that? >> we have agreed to resume dialogue. the two prime ministers met in butane on the sidelines of the meeting, entrusted to foreign ministers to engage and bridge trust deficit and to undertake confidence-building measures. and we've had a meeting on the 15th of july in islamabad. there are more compete meetings expected during the year. so i think a legalization on both sides has emerged that terrorism is a common challenge and we need a common approach to deal with it. >> are you worried about their presence in afghanistan and what their intent might be after, talking about india, after there is some military success if it comes? >> well, you see, the point is we will have to see the level of their presence. obviously afghanistan is a sovereign country and india is a sovereign country and they have every right to have bilateral relations. and one respects that, and one accepts that. but they do no share a border like pakistan. we share a border with afghanistan so it's the level of presence will also reflect on the intentions. >> it is said that the united states is not pushing as hard as it used to to force, ask your government to go after the haqqani network. and that,-- you are shaking your head. and that recently admiral mullen, the u.s. chair of the joint chiefs did not even bring it up. >> you see, no, it has been under discussion. and i think now the american commanders are in close coordination with the army chief of pakistan. we have a very good arrangement. the tripar tied commercial between the forces, pakistan troops and the military authorities. and they meet on a regular basis. in that there is a realization that pakistan has been focusing and has been carrying out successful operations in the tribal belt. now the timing of that has to be our assessment, has to be the assessment of our military commanders. because they are aware of the resources available. they are aware of the strategy. you see, we have to not just flush them out. once we have flushed them out we have to hold and we have to build. and then we have to transfer those areas to the civil authorities. so we have a very well thought out strategy. that strategy has worked successfully and many other areas. we have successfully operated that strategy in the south-- and obviously we're not going to forget north waziristan. >> rose: it is often said that the leadership of the afghan taliban, is still residing in pakistan and the top leadership of the afghan taliban don't even go into the battle place. is that correct? >> i don't know whether top leadership is, frankly. nobody really knows. because-- . >> rose: they think they no. >> well, they should share it with us, then. >> rose: you don't know where they are. >> honestly, no. honestly no. because they are no friends of ours. and if we did know, we would take them out. >> rose: there are no sightings of mullah omar. >> people of pakistan do not consider the taliban friends of theres any more. they have been killing innocent pakistanis. we have lost over 10,000 civilians in this fight who had nothing to do with the fighting. you know, going about their regular business. >> rose: so that has turned your citizenry against the taliban. >> absolutely. there is revulsion against them. >> rose: the chairman of the senate foreign relations committee john kerry is in pakistan. what's the talk between the americans and the pakistanis now. what's the agenda, the floods are first because of the emergency. where is the point of focus? >> the agenda is immediate humanitarian assistance in the floods, as you said. the agenda is achieving peace and stability in afghanistan. the agenda is to help pakistan rebuild its economy. we have expanded the sectors of engagement in this dialogue from five to 134 under this administration. we're talking about energy, education and help. the agenda is to strengthen democratic institutions in pakistan. so there is a lot to talk about. >> it's a pleasure to you have at this table and i thank you tore coming at a time of crisis in pakistan. and are you here trying to do what you can to raise the world's attention and recognition of the risk. and at the same time, garner as much help as you can. thank you for stopping. >> thank you for drawing world attention to our flight. >> rose: foreign minister qureshi of pakistan. back in a moment. stay with us. spike lee is here. he is a director, an actor, a producer, a writer and an entrepreneur prn. his new film is "if god is willing and the creek don't rise" it a portrait of life in new orleans five years after hurricane katrina. here is a look at his late lates-- latest film. >> oh, i love my kitchen, although i don't like to cook any more. >> yeah. >> but i love my kitchen. >> tell me about these cabinets. >> everything is right at hand. i don't like the-- this. i don't like this at all. and you see all of this cabinet space i didn't need for my washing machine could have gone right back there. >> okay. >> yeah. >> i tried to make it easier to make it more like a kitchen. >> well, it was a kitchen before. >> we only made a few modifications but the contractor told me something that i thought was a really amazing. he said, man n this neighborhood, back in ponchartrain park, he said most of the folks were elderly folks. and he said 99.9% of them when i started the renovation i said look, since your house is open, why don't we make some updates. why don't we do this, we can do this. and he said all of them said no, can you just make it like it was. these were the things that we saved from the hurricane. >> your first trip to italy. >> yeah. >> i was in high school. >> yeah. >> i bought these for you. >> uh-huh. i think i bought these in rome. >> look, there's one little spec on there. i wanted to stay. katrina's dirt so leave it stay there. that's a reminder. >> well. >> yes. >> joining me now, spike lee, i'm pleased to have him back at this table. so tell me about this movie. >> what you just saw is a great, great jazz trumpeter, composer who has done almost all the scores from our film, terrance blanchard and his mother. and in that scene, he' he's-- they're taking a tour of her house that's been renovated since the devastation that struck it when the levees broke and the neighborhood in new orleans. >> rose: so this is a success story, she's back in her home. >> she's back in her home. >> rose: are there other success stories in new orleans? >> there are. but it's like sour and sweet, join pain. and now we have the biggest oil disaster, history of the world. so last night, charlie, we had the premier there. it is a four-hour piece, we showed two hours last night. the first hour and the fourth hour and the fourth hour deals specifically with b.p.. >> rose: it is book ended by the super bowl champion. >> yes. s the first super bowl and that was really f there ever was a case study at how a sports team can lift an entire city, state and region up, that was it with the saints. who dat nation, with superman peyton manning, took care of him that day, didn't they? >> yes, they did. >> rose: so the saints came marching home. >> and it was the middle of mardi gra too, so it was-- . >> rose: but here you want back to make a sequel to the original film. >> right. >> rose: and basically we're going to make the super bowl sort of the crowning sort of punctuation for the film. >> well, it just ended up that our first day of shooting was the super bowl. and so the saints, i and i had, i got an nfl films crew for me and the game. i sent my other people in new orleanss to film people watching the game and also the subsequent celebration that we knew would take place in the french quarter. so with the saints winning that game, we thought that we had an ending already. and as i said before, it was in the middle of mardi gra. so-- mardi gras so it started out that this film was going to be very upbeat, positive, revisit to see what has happened five years since august 29th, 2005. but april 20th happened and we had to rethink and reconfigure the whole film and deal with this oil disaster. >> rose: you figure i got to work b.p. into this story. >> well, it's the biggest story of the year so far. it is the biggest oil disaster in the history of the world. >> rose: what does this is a to you in terms of looking at katherineo, making a film about katrina and now you make a film about b.p. and the oil spill. what are the impressions you have, and what are the similarities and what is it -- >> for me the greatest thing was greed. it was greed, the united states army corps of engineers cutting corners with the levee system they have been building since the late '50s, which brought about the breach in the levees and put the city, the city of new orleans 80% underwater. and it was greed on the part of b.p. that brought about the greatest oil disaster in the history of the world. and it has been documented. i think the device is called a blowout preventer. $500,000. and they said no? now how many many billions, i mean remember that commercial, madeas are you going to pay me now or pay me later. and when you cut corners, soon are-- sooner or later it comes back to bite you. but in this case, 11 people died with the rig blowing up. and this is the third disaster b.p. has had, i think in the last three or four years. 14 people died there was another one no one died but damage was severe so this is, they're good at this. this is-- . >> rose: so did you see a similarity between the government's response to katrina and the government's response to b.p.. >> well, people have been trying to play it like that, is this obama's katrina. my answer to that, charlie, is still yet to be determined. how he deals with b.p.. as this thing goes on. this thing is to the done. and so that will be determined how he deals with b.p. and, here's the thing. when ken sal a skblar-- salazar said we need to keep b.p. responsible and we're going to keep our boot on their neck. the next day we cut to the clip to obama saying we don't need that type of language. now you've been to brooklyn. i think that is very tame language. b.p.'s been dictating to the government what to do from the get-go, charlie. b.p. dictated faa who can fly over, who can't fly over the site. b.p. dictated to the coast guard who could come around here. let me finish. b.p. dictated to the epa about the dispersant core exit. you have to watch the thing. we got the letter, we're b.p. sent the letter to b.p. saying we have problems, we have problems with this dispersant core exit. and we have some other things we want to you use. they said you know what, we are using, basically they said we're going to use what we want to use. >> rose: you know that general, admiral allen is waiting to come on this program. >> yeah. >> rose: all right. >> let's pull up another chair. >> rose: we would be happy to do that. and i suspect he would be happy to do that. but the point is, here, are you suggesting that he who has given a lot of credit for coming in and managing the crisis, did a bad job? >> i just think, first of all, and a lot of stuff, by speaking to the people who live in the gulf, speaking to the fisherman, speaking to billy noneguesser, people like that, this thing, first of all charlie, b.p. has been liing from the beginning. first tony hayward said there was negligentable harm. >> rose: former c.e.o. of b.p.. >> yeah. then he said it was 1,000 gallons. then it said it was 5,000 gallons. then the court ordered them to make that camera public. then he is talking about. and now the newest scam is 75% of the the oil has disappeared. >> rose: and your judgement is that the oil has not dispersed. >> charlie, the same people that said this is the biggest oil disaster in the world are saying that all of a sudden abracadabra disappears, but yesterday a report came out of the university of georgia saying that is not the case. >> rose: how much of the oil is still there? >> here's the thing. when they say, how come when you say 57%, are you talking about 75% of the oil on the surface of the gulf of mexico or 75% in the gulf. and one of the reasons they use corexit so that stuff wouldn't be on the surface so, it would just sink to the bottom. >> rose: i ask you about admiral allen, let me ask you about president obama. president obama said we are taking charge of this oil spill, correct? >> he said that. >> rose: you want to talk about how b.p.... . >> here's the thing though-- . >> rose: lied and made mistakes. >> i don't understand how government officials are saying that 75% of the oil has disappeared. >> rose: i will ask admiral allen. >> ask him. >> rose: all right. >> also how come they did not specify is it 75% of the oil on the surface, or 75% of the oil in the gulf. another thing, no one, have not heard from b.p. how much of the corexit, of the dispersant was used. because five, 10, 50 years from now we might find out that corexit did more damage to the ecology than the oil did. >> rose: so you think they should not have used it. >> we have to learn in the film where the epa had a list of less toxic dispersants and literally b.p. said we're going to use what we want to use. and ep said okay. >> rose: so what's the message of your film? >> well, if you want to connect this film with the first one, you know, greed is just rampant. and people... . >> rose: the mistakes that were made it seems to me because of the coverage of this are evident by b.p., by the government, both in terms of katrina and in terms of the oil spill. >> right. as the mayor said in the piece, why are you even, if you can't, if you are diging is so deep that if something happens than you can't stop it, what are you doing digging that deep in the first place. >> rose: so they should not have been digging in that kind of deep-sea. >> i mean, that rig, this documentation that rig was having problems left and right. and stuff was looked to the side and they just let it go and now 11 people are dead. >> rose: the message of the film is? >> charlie, the film was four hours. and i have stopped dictating to people, oh, you should come out of this film thinking so-and-so and so-and-so. i don't do that any more. i respect people's intelligence. if you watch it, you will make up your own mind about it. >> rose: you were the director of it. >> right. >> rose: tell me -- >> i don't dictate, whether it is a documentary or a night of film i have stopped telling people what to take away from my films. you look at it. you make up your own mind. i don't do it any more. >> rose: if god is willing the creek don't rise will debut on two parts on monday august 23rd and tuesdaying a24th on hbo. spike lee, a great friend of this program says make up your own mind. he has shown you conversations and he has shown you interviews that have been done in which people tell the story of what happened. >> i means that's why we don't even put narrations in my documentaries either. >> rose: so what what else is going on in your life, other than this film. you have made the movies you wanted to make. >> one time i want to do a film biopick on jackie robinson. i wanted to do a pic on james brown, the godfather of soul. i wrote a script with the late great bud shulberg about joe louis and max schmelan. >> rose: that would be a great film. >> one day i would like to do a slade epic. because that's one thing this country is still not really dealt with, slavery. and i'm talking about flat black and white americans. i mean really since roots, that's the last time. >> rose: what is it you hope with your filmmaking and your films, you are accomplishing, what is it that you want to say, what is it about. >> for me, charlie, and again thank you for having me on the show, for me it's been story stilling. because all the great filmmakers i love are storytellers. and that's what great directors do. and that's what i try to be. and you want to tell a great story and tell it in a different way. >> rose: films can change our culture and change our society. they have that kind of tangible. >> some can. but it really depends on the situation. i'll give a perfect example. earl morris's film, thin blue line that got the guy off-- death row. >> rose: and the fog of war. >> these are specific things where the intention was realized. and you could see right away there was direct thing that happened. a direct reaction because of that film. it doesn't happen a lot. >> rose: you are now been married for a while. fathered how many two kids. >> two. >> rose: two kids, how old are they? >> my daughter is going to be 16. on december 2nd. i got a dilemma. >> rose: you're not going let her out the door. >> no, i'm not talking about. >> rose: what. >> december 2nd is my daughter's 16th birthday and december 2nd is the first time that miami heat go to cleveland. >> rose: you go to your daughter's birthday party. stop it. >> we might have to work something out. >> rose: so i was going to ask, finally, finally, how you have changed in terms of the way you look at movies, the impact of movies and the choices you make. because you've made a lot of documentaries now. >> well, this is the fourth. the first one was four little girls, the baptist church in birmingham, alabama. when the levees broke, kobe-- the thing about it though is i don't really make a distinction between, for me, documentary films and now-- it is not like i got to put on different hats to do one or the other. for me it is still storytelling. so because i feel like that, i don't have to like flip the switch, get tripped up going back and forth between those two different medians, i guess. >> rose: spike lee, the film is "if god is willing and the creek don't rise" your grandmother told you that, didn't she. >> yes, you know about that, that is old southern stuff right there, baby. that's the south. >> rose: god is willing and the creek don't rise, will debut in two parts on monday august 23rd and tuesday august 24th on hbo. >> rose: vincent cassel is considered one of frances' most charismatic actors. hes had mastered dark, edgy characters. here is a look at some of them . >> . (speaking french) . >> we're under a deadline. >> no, no, you don't understand. you didn't win. you lost. not only did you lose, you whole entire crew got pinched. and by the way i got to tell you something, you don't look anything like her. eventually the nose but the ears, the way you walk in your dress. >> rose: in his latest film he plays not oruous french gangster jacques marine. here a look at the trailer of that film . he calls can the highway men ♪ ♪ i got a girl in my pocket ♪ ♪ and i want to have a lot of fun ♪ ♪ highwaymen ♪ they call me high ♪ . >> i am pleased to have vincent cassel at this table for the first time. welcome. >> thanks a lot. >> rose: it great to see you and meet you. >> it's an honor. >> rose: tell me who jacques marine was. >> well, jacques marine was actually a pretty normal person when you think about him. but he became a gangster. he didn't have to. but i guess, you know, in the bottom of his heart he was a rebel and he felt like he had to live this life. and then on the way i guess he used a lot of, i mean he tried to find a lot of justifications, you know, for his choices of life. but it's not something he really had to do. >> rose: it seems to be somebody in real life who built up a notion of himself. >> totally. he created his own persona. the interesting thing about him is that he was the first gangster to use the media. and that was pretty new at the time. >> rose: how did he use the media? >> well, it all started when you have to put everything back in context. we're in the 60see-- well actually 70-- '70s. we are in the right wing, france from-- everything is pretty serious, you know. and the left wing newspaper called libereation started to use what he was doing to fight the power, really. and they used him as an icon of the counterpower. >> rose: his posture was anti-establishment, anti-authority, anti-power. >> totally. but i pain he was like that but he never thought about using it with the press, for example. but he used them and he kind of enjoyed it. and he realized that he could definitely use him for his own sake. the problem is that he used it too much and i think he died from it, really. >> rose: in fact, the film opens with his death. >> yup. >> rose: 1979. >> yeah. >> rose: and there is great controversy about the notion of his dying, whether it was an assassination, whether they didn't want to capture him or whether they did want to capture him alive. >> yeah, actually the trial took like 30 years to be closed and it closed right, only a month and a half before he we started to shoot. >> rose: you were very, very clear that if you played him, it would not be necessarily a sympathetic portrayal. you wanted to capture what you thought was what? >> well, the thing is that i felt like hi a responsibility. he was such a known persona in france that we couldn't present him as robin hood. >> rose: exactly. >> because he wasn't. he never gave anything back. >> rose: never gave anything to anybody but himself. >> exactly. >> rose: take a look at this. (speaking french) (speaking french). >> rose: where does a movie take artistic licence with his memoir and his life. >> all over the place, really. because he should follow what he wrote in his book. i mean it's full of lies, really, you know. he would have been a superhero movie, you know. so we had to, we took it as a base and then talking with the people, going back to the police report and stuff, we managed to have some kind of a truth, really. but i mean, we don't really know. i mean we had to, you know, build it from bits and pieces and eventually make something work for what it is, meaning a movie. >> rose: was it inevitable that you would become an actor? >> yes. >> rose: it was, because of your father? >> well, not only that. actually, yeah, of course i grew up on backstage and on sets and stuff. but my grandfather was the owner of a small cinema in the south of france. and it was an old cinema and a theatre. so we would literally sleep in the dressing rooms, you know, in my bathroom, actually one of the theatre, so i have seen a lot of movies from cartoons to the first scorsese, the monty python. and even porn at midnight, you know, so when i was a kid, you know, so it was something we would go and i have seen like a lot of things without even knowing that it would be part of my culture. >> rose: and then when your parents were sdrorsed-- divorced your mother moved to new york. >> yeah, she used to be a journalist here in new york for like 25 years. >> rose: but you spent time here. >> a lot. actually when i was much younger i didn't think that i would ever have a career in france because i couldn't relate with what was going on in the industry. i dreamed of myself being on a bike, you know, and being the spike lee movie more than anything else. >> rose: spike lee was somebody you admired. >> yes, of course. and you know, i was like 13, 12, 14, 15, you know, it was the beginning of hip-hop and new york was like, you know t was incredible. it was every why, music, the energy so i would come here a lot. and we started to make movies like line, irreversible. >> rose: was that the breakthrough film for you. >> definitely. >> rose: what did it do for you? >> well, it was wonderful because suddenly, you know, we were talking about a reality but at the same time it was very cinematic and plus it was so far away from what i am in real life that people didn't know who i was, you know. and from that point, you know, i could get into characters and people would never know how to cast me because they had no idea who i was for real. and that's a good thing for an actor, i think. >> rose: and what was the next big role, apartment? >> well, yeah. then we shot the apartment and that was something very important because it was a young director. plus i met that actress that i am still married to, monika bell you werei. >> rose: a stunning italian actress. >> but i think, you know, moviemaking is important when suddenly it becomes a part of your life and not just a job. so meeting your wife, taking part of something politically-- political in a way, being part of that young, angry mankind of directors, you know, that i was attached with. you know, all these things really helped me to build myself as a person, as a human being really. >> rose: and then irreversible came along. >> yes. irreversible, yeah, i think it is an important movie and-- is one of the best director as live, definitely. it's not for everybody. it's not box office kind of movie. but you know, i think it's the closest thing we have in modern cinema to-- i guess. >> rose: it's the story of a man who sets out to find the rapeest. >> yes. well, actually, the interesting thing about the movie is that it was all based on improvization. and the story is told backwards. remember the first day i got on the set there was a scene like in an apartment with my wife and myself. and i got there and i said okay, so how long should it be? and the director told me anything between 2 and 20 minutes. i said-- what does that mean. why 20 minutes, for example. he said because that's the maximum we can put in that camera, you know there is no more films. and it ended up being a 20 minute sequence in one shot. >> rose: in one shot. >> yes. well, i think like a lot of directors who saw that movie were amazed by that freedom of directing, you know. and so i mean i guess some of the jobs i had afterwards were coming from that movie in particular. >> rose: there are those who look at you and say you're one of the few actors, you are one of the few french actors today poised to become an international star. now i realize actors don't like to talk about stardom but there is something about reaching a level of international acceptance. >> i mean come on, let's face it, you know, as an actor you need to be recognized. and if it's worldwide it's even better. >> rose: and it also gives you more roles, does it not and more opportunities? >> more choices, you know. i mean i am obviously really happy to be able to work in american movies and english speaking movies. but you see i'm developing this brazilian career on the side. >> rose: what is the brazilian career. >> well, i'm attached with some young brazilian directors. and it's a country that i really love and i spend a lot of time there. and so now i have projects over there, you know. i speak enough portuguese to shoot over there and i think there is a rising of latino cinema. and to be part of it more for me is actually pride, really. >> rose: what is it about the country and the culture. >> well, to the people who have been there i think it's obvious. but if i had to sell brazil to somebody who never went there, i would say the energy, how people live the instant more than any wrels. how the culture becomes so strong that you have to be part of it even if you are a stranger. and that makes mix of, you know, sweetness and danger. and i think that could be a definition of poetry. >> rose: is it becoming a kind of second home for you. >> bevel. well, i would say second or third because i'm very much attached to italy too because of my family. >> rose: and when you look at french cinema today where is it. and what's gone on? >> well, you see french people always complain and i think they're right. to do so because otherwise french cinema wouldn't exist any more. i am not in love wefering that comes out of french cinema but at least i have to say that we're still shooting 190 movies a year which is much more than any other european country, really. >> rose: thank you for coming. >> thanks a lot. >> rose: pleasure to have you here. >> funding for charlie rose has been provided by the coca-cola company, supporting this program since 2002. over a century ago gotlieb dime leer wrote a promise to invent the first automobile and to keep reinventing. to build the type of cars that define true performance while never sacrificing their true beauty and introduce innovations that help save lives and the planet. four simple words mercedes wednesday lives by today. the best for nothing. that's what drives us. >> additional funding provided by these funders: tavioo

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