Transcripts For WETA Charlie Rose 20090914

rrz welcome to t broadcast. tonight we remember september 11th, 2001. first byhe certificate pony that took placeoday. th excerpt from pvious conversations on thi program. and then conversations about the future with new york police commissione ray key. andrchitecture cric pau goldberg. >> we reize thatfter september 11th that we had do more to protecthe city froa terrori attack. we had an attk twice, suessfully. and we knew that we had to augment the supplementof wh the federal government wadoing to protect our city. becaus new york was then and still is inhe judgement of the telligence community the number one target in america. >> i think we should have rethoughall of the land. and think we also should have had houng. because that what people really have wanted in lower manhattan, no offices. it's what there's a need for. but there was a fear right th that people would not want to live at ground zero. that it would be too raw, too painful. inact, now with eight years having passed, we ally think of it, is not just any few blocks, o course, it's still very ecial. but i don't think people would hetate to li there had an apartment blding been put up at the cornerof it. >> rose: also this eveng, as we move to the nals of the u.s. en here in new yorke talk to donald ll about tennis and about representingthletes. you learn by listening, not by talking. that's the rea secret. and i think the art of negotiation is really sty in huma nature. i want to do a very serious negotiation iever want to do it on thephone or certainly n by e-mai you want to it face-to-fa so you can get the feelf the other person. and as i sayn that book, thtwo things that really matter mosin life, charl, and you are a rsonification of it, are the relatnships built on trust. that's what it's all about lz. >> rose: absolutely. remembrance of 9/, a program note our convertion with nicholas counies tov and sheryl udin will be seen next week. tonight remembering 9/11 and looking at the tennis finals this weekend funding for charlie rose has been provided by the following captioning sponsored b rose communitions from ourtudios in new york city, this is charlie ro. rose: today marks the 8th anniversary of the stember 11th, 2001, attacks on america in new york. the pentagonn virgia and pesylvania. across the coury americans pause toark the day when nearly 3,000 people were killed. president obama, mayor bloomberg and fmer secrary of state cin powell spoke tthe meaning of this day. ♪ oh say can you see ♪ b the dawn's early light ♪ ♪. >> septembers have come d gone. nearly 3,000 days have pass. almost one for each of those ken from us. t no turning of the seasons can diminish the pain a the loss o that day. no passage of time. d no dark skies can ev dull t meaning of this moment. so on this solem day, at this sacred hour, once more we pause. on more we pray. as a nation. and as a peopl. >> and just as our hearts return tthose that wlost, we also remember all those who ontaneously rushed forwar toelp, hower and whomever they could. eir compassion a selfless actsre etchedn our city's history. >> but what terrorists can never do, what the can never do to us is to chae who we are and what w are as a nationhat fearle. a nation that touches every nati because every natio touches us. >> let enewuresolve against thoswho perpetrate this barbaric acand who plot agast us still. in defense of our nation, we will never waiver in pursuit al qaeda and exemist ales, we will never falt. ♪ and the me of the brave ♪ ♪ o the brave ♪ ♪. >> rose: over the years at this table weave spoken to many about september 11th. we he talkedto rescu workers, polical leaders d new yorkers who were eye witnesss to the attacks. all of them have spoken eloquentlybout the spirit of our city, our cotry and the meang of that day. tonighwe show you moments from those conversations. >> what do you know aut your son's dth? he called me that mornin at he. he calledevery day. he called me five, six, seven times a day d he only led mile away. >> re: five or six times a y. >> a day. he called me every time. >> he lled me all the time. i cat tell youow i miss those calls. >> rose: yh. >> he called tt morning and heaid turn on the tv. we turned it on. we saw the tower was hit. it was t north tower,he firstower. i said john, what is it. he sd a plane hit it. said okay. with that you could hear the tones in t background going f, meaning there i an alarmoming in. he said that's us, dad, we're going to the tde center. i said okay, john, be careful. that was the st time i spoke to my son. he went there with his company, squa 2, hazma is also quarter with them that house had a total of 19 ys respond. 19 menidn't come back at nigh they were all killed. >> it was tough i ally thoht my lifwas over. and th when everything stopped, iyou know, said jeff, are you ay. he's like yeah. and he aed me theame question. anythi hit you. >> no. i ened up my lite light and lookedaround. couldn't s anything. weould -- he was as close as bobby is here. app wecouldn't see each other. itas complete darkness dust all over. but i could see that there was a wall to the left, two walls ha collapsed tohe left of us and were leaning agains an i beam. the landg that was abo, the landing of the second floo jeffrey hadpened a door going to the loafer levels. and the lding actuly landed on p of the door that h had opened, kept it from falling on top of us. anthere is what we call a stand pipe that lned toward the ceer of the building. so when theanding came do it got twisted. so w had a teep more or less, th wall w leaning. this landing was here ande had enough space for the two of us to std next to each her. the right of jeffrey f we didn'tove over to the lt, close to the wallthe floor had collaps and all the debris and everything went down and to the right side of the stairwell. and we tew stuffown, couldn't here it. it was bottomless. and if we didn't move the left, jeffr would have ended up falling down the hole a probably ting me with him, youknow, trying to hold on. >>t was seven sries that ho. >>e don't know how -- >> it went down to the bottom of e elevator shaft. okay. >>ncredible. >> andhen you think abo this, -- >> is a miracle that we' he. i believe god and a couple of people th i kno that have passed on were watching er us. i mean en u saw whe we were, what we were in, and we couldt get out, it took them about four and ahalf hos to actually reach us and dig us out, or bach a couple ofwalls and we were luckenough that theyere able to get to us a lot sier than we thought. because when they found us they had not theools they would have needed if we weret lucky enough to be next to aelevator shaftway that was constructed of double 5/8 sheet rock and metal studs. so they wereble to breach the wall above with a tool and send down a rope and we were able to, you know, climb and break the bottom part where w were. it has made me much more religis. much deeper ith. much deeper understandg of the fact that god has a plan for and that when we can't figure it outut we have to believe, it's made me much more convinced that the single mostmportant thing you have to do is develop strong beliefs that are real, thatre honest, th mean something to you. because ose are the things you are gog to cling to. thosare the things tt are going to getou through a crisis d it has made me much me coinced that the whole concept of american rights an american gornment and what we tryo do f people is the future of theworld. and we have toigure out how to convey it to people. >> our role, our msion and ouobligation and our duty. >> that'right. cause i see wt happened at theorld trade cent in washington overthe skies of pennsylvania. as conflict between the prehistoric world and the modern world. the world where it was and the world whe it's going. the anger and t hatred for a society i which women have equal rights with men, which there iseligious freedo in which there is prosperi. and which is thenly way to bring peop out of poverty you need prospity to bring people o of poverty. and these e the things that somehow haveto work for them. we probably have to fina way to accomplish that. but i ha become much more nvince that that is how we e going to get throh this. >> well, it changed a lot, think. think it changed aense of invulnerable that our country d. i an it's pretty amazing to think that more people died othe morning of septber 11th in new york city than died at lexington d concord, the fst milita engagement in the war of 1812. the first military engagement of the mexica mexin-american war. e first military engageme of the civil war, fort sump ter, the battleip mayne, the sink of t lose takenia, pel harbor and theirst mitary engagement in t rea war and the vietnam war combined. and i think, you know, people have sense now that our country is foregood -- for good or for ill part o the world no longer separated by two vast oceans. i ink that's on the negative se. i think on t positive side i think this reawaned in america a sense of patriotism a a recognition how precious the life is at we have here and our rightsnd our freeds. and how it entls an ligation that sometimes requires sacrifice in order to pro thekt them. and know a lot ofriends mine, sort of '60s hippiewho now when the star-sngled banner is played the eyes mis up a little bit and the art is firmly held to the chest and there is recognition that there is something special aboubeing an american that is worth fightingfor. >> country matters. >> yeah, coury matters. patriotism has been reawakened in this cli. and i don't think it wil be passing moment. d i think a sense of responsibility arosen this cotry as well. and i think ironically ough it caused a lot of people say t themsees, is life all about chasing materialo -- possessions and getting some more tions and having my investment portfolio ri and so i tnk a lotf people have been, you know, sortf searching for, you know, how can they be of service. how can they lead a rher life in a spiritualense, and a sensef service to hers than just simply in the pursui of merial gain for self. >> i thinke went through thistages, according to the -- we went tough shock, first. then a kind of awe that this had happen. d then a kind of stunned anger, sayin weust do something. and then a sense of vuerability. the last emotn is the one thatill last. that wil endure. the sensthat we a now finay in this continent vulnerable. if we bomb the vietnese they couldn't bomb sttle back. if we bomb saddam hussein he couldn'tomb staten island. we felt invulnerableable f a long time. now we are vulnerable. and i thinthat is a very useful thing beuse particularly to people who have lived in this amazing goldenarenthesis between the end of the world war and septembe11th. that was -- that will be looked at later as this period no draft, no -- >> it is really the '90s. >> it is extraoinary. >> yeah. and i think for them it will be a masesingly useful and make them more human to understand tt this costs involve. thatou sometimes have to pay prices, a certain price. but we also kw, inow as journalist if i look at a prize fighter, i know nothing at allbout his quality untilhe gets knked down. if he gets up, i knowe is a fighter. if he -- and this city was so extraordinary, charlie. everybody who was here. we got knocked down on tuesda we grouped around r the mouthpiece on weesday. we were on one knee on thursd and on friday we go up. and the city you cod sense itll over the city on f. everybody was back the deagain rats were ck. gu were handing out club paradiseable dancing things in front of pen station. but is is real. thiss not we all went to the same movie. there are still bodies down the. there are still peopl clawinat that corete and steel trying to not only find and ideify the bodies but even -- that is whai think. we are a par of t proces giving it meaning. not ju to list the facts. >> right. >>e need theacts. weust have the facts. t it not what the facts are buwhat you thinkas a consequence of those facts. >> it was this thing that was just full of separions between pele in tms of how the eerience that i was fascinated, iean the numb of times in one's life where one ows thi is why i live in this city. starting when you first move here and you come over the bridge. but this in a muchnot in th kind ofomantic way but in some, you kn, the pride how brave people were. and how stron people were. and how surprised i w that my friends in other cits were not you know, were behang, you know, the amountf they're going to strike theollywood studios next well no, they're not. no. theye not. the peop i know who bought gas mks did not live here. >> nework has always been an extraordina placement but in the pas ten years, inometime about 1990 something absolutely o '93, say, something genuinely unecedented happened in new york. i have the chance to s it not living he, in fact, being abroad most of those years. and would you comeack to neyork and it felt as thou, as i wrote at the me, as though there s a bubble ovethe city. almost as if awer superman's hometown. there was this big trsparent bubble that would sele over the city with a gleaming highlight and noity had ever seen so powerful, so gleaming, so prosperous, so unreally ch as new york did in those years. anone alway kne you ways knew it couldn't last that that bble was going to break. it simply wasn'tossible r it to persist. but i ink all of us thght the bubble will break becausthe dotcoms will cra, because the real estatearket will crash, the stock market will crash. and one could even begin to imagine thathe bubble wouldn't burst as bubbles do, but the bubble wod be piced. the bubble wld be destroyed in that wa d i think therewas an instant recognition on tuesday and aftwards that that had happened. that some fdamental rift, some fundamentalhange had taken ace in our lives, that we were at that ment we knew that that had passed, that a whole period, not justn administration, not just a polital period but a whole period perioin consousness had changed. it doesn'tappen often in life. >> joining me now, new rk city police commissioner ray kele. e new york police department has thwarted several terror plots and also c crime rates historic lows. he ithe only person in ty history to serve two parate terms as police commissionernd i am ver pleaseon this day to welcome him backo this program. welce and thank you for cong. >> good to b with you. >> tell me what this day ans and will me sort of in termsof the nework policeepartment. >> obviously it was a significant loss as far as personnel were concerned. 23 police officers meers of the new york city police deptment lost their life, 37 port authority police officerand of cose 343 firefighters. what it also signals is a significant change, turning point for e department in w we do busiss. werealized that aft september 11th tha we ha to do more to protect th city were a terrorist attack. we had an attack twice, successful. and we knew tt wead to augment or supplement what the federa government was doing to protect our city. because new yo was tn and still in the judgemt of the telligence community the number one target in erica. it's the counication capital, fancial capital. i deedit is theorld capital in a lot of people' minds. what we did was put in place a cnterterrorism bureau. we reformed r intelligence division. we brought in world-class folks to help us do this from washington, from acemia. weoned and developed our own internal language skills. because have a very diverse department that ha become. more diverse since 2001. we put a of thesekills and these initiives together thelp u better protect the cit >> when there is an cident in mumbaor an incidentn london you've got people on the ground there. >> that's righ >> within 24 hos. >> we want to arn quickly any lesson that can help better protect new yk. we can't wait for report sixonths later. we don't know if it is a precsor to an attack in new york or one that is gointo be coming in a uple of weeks on the same del. so we wt to gatr information as ickly as possible. and we've deployed personnel in 11 forei ties to do a variety thingsut primarily to ask theew york questio, whas going here that can affect new york and perhapharm us. >> rose: that'one reason why we have not had successf attacks in terms of accomplishing t motives of those tt set themin motion wanted toccomplish. what else? >> firsi think it is important to put it in context. because we'vead eight plots against the cit since septber 11th of 2001. d for a variety of reasons, good work the part of the federal government we had o own intellince divisi here, stopan attempt to bb the heral square subway staon, the british,f course, opation overt wch saw three conviions in the uk. but there we at least eight parts that we know of ainst the city. but the federal government has done a good job, think, really everyevel of government. >> not only upping the gam but th essential quality commicating with each other has racheted way up. absolutely. informatn sharing aoss the board. and you know the level of cooperation is excelnt. there no othe way to phrase it. >> do most these attacks come fromthe same ideology and e sameource o that diverse grp of people for their owneasons looking at what has happened before wantg to achieve theame thing? >> it is th sam ideology becausit radical islam, that's the rlity of it. >> rose: ievery case that you have thwarted plot it had a radical islam connection. >>oth eight plotshat i mentioned to you, yes, that is the nature, tt isthe genesis of the plot against theity. >> rose: is the reon are you able t thwart em now becausyou have a, information. that therimary difference. >> yes. >>ose: because you -- >> yesit is informion. informatn as you said, information sharing but now there isuch more listening for that information. >> rose: and y know what you listeng for. >> yes. you know what you are looking for. prior to 2001, we simply didn. certainly not a local level. we weren't doing anof this at a localevel. we were attacked here in 1993 the wod trade center bombing. i was the police commissioner then wh it happened and iwas seenas a, sort of anberration. sort of six crazy guygot together and did thi it wasn't seen to linked to anyort of international mo, obviouy that was wrong. it actually went bac to at least the -- assassinatioin 1990. but it was justort of ushed aside. that all chged with septembe 11th. from that time on you realize that we were up against at least an internional -- you have an opinion on whether the peoplwho want to do harm to t united states in that mannerre growing or are they shrinking? >> i think it's difficult to say. we watch individuals who become radicalized in different ways. even on the internetr they will have aanction or somebody in a particular locati that seems to motivate them. it's difficu to get a numb on tm. we don'tnow. we don't know. we -- our operational premise, you might say, is at it certainly could ow. so we are watching ia lot of difrent corners. >> lete go back to those you thwarted. you thwarted them because you somehow e able to get information whether they messed up an sent a gnal that you were ab to pick up. or b because you created infoants inside tha disclosed . is there a cmon denonator or is each one serate. >> you havto look at each one sort o separely. but clrlynformants were significant in se ofhese cas. you saw the mo cent one was the riverdale bombis. that was clely a case of an informant coming forward working with the fbi. operion overt, we see some of that informion coming out fr t british. that was a wellonducted, billion run inveigation on the part the british. e case that we had her in new york with thewo individuals that wanted to pull offhe heral square subway station, we actually had an undercover police officer involv, receive me information and then based on what tt officer receivedere able to introduce a confideial nv t. sot isike no one model. but clearly information is the key. getting formation early. and bei able to act on it. >> rose: becau it had such a devastati effect on our city and in shington, and in pennlvania and across the untry, is this the reonse to this and how you have been able to change the police deparent and because of what 9/11 means in the heart and psychef americans that the proudest accolishment for you? >> oh, i don't ink w c declare it as an accomplishment, you kn. weake every day as a --. >> rose: risk. >> as a risk. anwe are not going to declare victor have to be concerned about tomorr. we built- >> you do know y tarted attacks. that is an accomplishment. >>es. but is certain a team fort. and you know, it the intellence community it i the lawnforcement community. internationally working, workintogether. >> and people like that don't stop trying. and it is notikeaseball, ne innings and it over. >> that'right. >> it mes they mayry nine or ten or 11. precisely. >> wt do you worry about the most. a question that i know you have hrd a thousand times. >> a nuclear radioologal event, a dirty bomb, oan actual nuclear debnation, of course. you know, it's something that whave to ink about. now we've p certain thgs in pla thawill help us protect th cy. and thanks to the departnt of homela security, we have an initiative going forward called securing citieshere we have the rings of state of the art raation detectors an t city. we're positioning them. we heobile detectors. we're working with 22 agencies in the are, connecticut and ne jersey and upstate new york to help us mitor this progr. but thais t, obviously the biggest concern. of course we're concned about, you know, vehicle-borne improvised explosiv. >> do you havell the resources yoneed. >> we always like more. more resources. >> more meaning what. it's not aess to technology. it's not access. it's just the nber of? >> thenumber of, more personnel, awell. we've down fm where we were in001. we're down because of the budget crisis. the environment weind oursves in in the city. we would like to see the federal government if possible helus out in that regard. cause we are protecti america'assets in this city. this is very much national ty where we have wall to walleye connick targets he that we would like to see the federalovernment help more. >> rose: what kind of rks do you give homeland security? >> good, goo. aferted and they are getting tter. we have worked with t new secretary. >> janet napolitan >> sheisited ground zero this morni. so we work closely with them. we obviously look to them for resources. we like to get money from homeland secury. anyou know, we are communicating. we'rtalking, as i say, the securinghe ty's itiative is funded by land security. >> wt's the applition of smart power soft pow in terms of the battle against terrorism coming to our shores again? >> we so many things i that area. imyself visit mosque on a gular basis. and answer questions. >> rose:ou say we orour friends. >> we answer questions this they have some conces. >> rose: about dirimination. >> ty are concerned about discmination. they a concerned about monitoring. i try tollay some of their concerns. weust had a cricket league fo young mostly muslim young men. cricket is unheard of in this country but we had a cricket league. it was a maj success and it goteef reviews oth pakian and india. we had a socr league for --. >> ros we meaning you created it. yes, we created it here. the police departmt did. and we got, u know, as i say, a lot of kudos for it, for doing it. we have mad our departmt much more derse. we have muslim officers asciation. we just had a a few weeks ago a preramadan conferen where00 people came tour auditorium and we spoke out what we are going to , provide additial security, ding ramadan. we a activel reuiting inhe musm community. so i meet with muslim leaderall the time. we d't always agree. no qstion about it. weut out a rept on radicalization that was coroversy, no question about it. it was the first attempt by an agency, new york city police department,o tryo get our arms around the process of radicalization. and we taujedbout -- we look at 11 cases specifically. and we made some statements there that not everybody agreedith. but we met. we talked abouit. we made some adjustmts in e report. so there is an awful lot of dialoguean awfulot of communication going on. d our language skills which we talked about, we have over 700 speakers of what we callanguages viously abic, hindi, venghali we have tse speakerin our ranks, these are police officers. so w are able to mmunicate in the diverse communities of this ci. and believe it buildan ineasing level of tst. >> rose: and information >> and informati. >> rose: thankou for coming. >> thank you, thanksor having m >> rose:ommissioner ray kelly. back ia moment. stay with us. >> rose: we contin now with paul gold berer, the architecre critic for the new york maner over the years he has chronicled the process of rebuildinground ro. in his 2005 book up from xer owe he wrote t following there is anyone no instruction nual to tell us wt to do whethe llest buildings are suddenly gone and ere a void in its heart. i'm eased to have him back at this table and take note of a new bk he has written called, approiately, why architecture matrs. welcom >> thank you, charlie. rose: what wn i read some of the things that people have saidnd cause it is hallowed ground, people areearning for a memorial. >> yes >> rose: why is ere not a memorial >> well theres one coming. it's just tang a very, very long time. everything about ts press has gone either wrong or astray inomeay oreen delayed. it's been sething of a nightmare, actually. nody dreamed it would take as long as ihas. >> rose: what are talking about and why did happen? >> well, i think we made a seri of wrong decisions in e very beginning. governor paki had the lusion, i think, on the morning of september 1h thathe quickest way to rebuild would be to lea all the plars in place. larry silverstein, t private developer o leased the twinowers, the port authority. >> rose: before it wt down. >> he only leased em from the port authori earlier in '01, that's right. and e port authority, the state govement, all the plers. in fact, it was the wrong thg to do. we would have done better probably if simply started om scratch becse they were a squabbling among themselves. they did notave a goo relationship. you had multiple player -- layers of governmen the state of new york. the state of new jersey which is involved in the port authority. the city of w york. all their various departnts and divisions and so forth. and then the other part of that mistake was that they ft the program of the originalorld trade cter inlace. in other words, the idea was not do somethg differenwith that lan the idea was tilto he 10 million square feet of offices and a lot of stores and l that stuff just to redistribute it so y wouldn'tave 0 story towe. and thento tuck in some kind of memorl. but the memorial was never the driving force, you might say. i think ithould have been. i think itreally should have been. i think we should have rethought alof the land d i think we also should have had housing. because that's what people really have nted in lower manhattan. not fices. it'shat there is a need r. buthere was a fear rit then tt people wouldot wanto live at gund zero that it would beoo raw, too painful. in fact, now with eight years havi passed, we really think of it, 's not just any few blocks, of urse, it's still very special. but i don think people would hesitat to live ther had anpartment buildg been put up at the corner of it. >> rose: larry silrstein still has theease. >> yeah. >> re: when will that commercial part of it ta place? >> wel, the first part of it, the building. e tall building tha governorataki. >> rose: freedomower. >> wanted call freedom towe thankfully that name i i found always a little you tnkcious is gone. they are jus clingt one world trade center now. that building is not very go, sadly, becse it was signed as much by th securi consultants andhe poli as by the architects. that's going up. nobody really wan to be in it. it's been awkwd problem. and it's suppos to be foowed by a series of other towers that are probably going to be better. designed by a different chitect, very good architect normage foster, and chard rogers,hree of the greate archites in the world, in fact, have been involved in those but those are alln indenite hold now because of the state the economy anlarry silverstein and the port ahority are fighting or who is going to pay for them and who is gointo put up the money and l that stuff. >> rose: and ty downsized the transportaon center. >>he transportation center by santiag wch was probably the onl thingt ground zero that everybody s enthusiastic about, the sign for it, that's been downsized because it turned out to costver $2 billion which is not so great. and then frank gary was doing a performing arts center. that is nowhere now because there is no mey for that. there another office building by colin terson fothat is on hold becaus e site is th old deutsche bank buildin and is taken forever to take that down as well so nothing is kind of gone smoothly a right. >> rose: why would this -- why would ts,this, the coercial buildings have such an impact on the memorial? why couldn't t memorial have gotten a consensus? >> well, the memorial did have a pretty good consensus. they waited awhile before they got started on the memorial. and then in '03there was competition held. it wasctually in a way the cleanest, most honorable part of a whole awful necessaryeup ground zero planning process. >> whichot onl state conflicts between state, port authority but the architects. >> absolutelit was a potical nightmar. bu the memorial competition, they really did honorably and well, it was a truly open competition 5200 entrys from all over e world. some, by great architects, many bynknowns and was a truly imparti jury that picked a relatively unknown winner, a yng architect named michael arod who did very beautif design which called for theootprint of the two twin tows, those two acre sizedsquares to be turned into voids anin effect, sort of sunkin plazas. and theemorial to be underneath them. but the void othat square would remi us of the absence of the towers it was a very simple and powerful idea. unfortunely, it also didn't really jive very well with the maste plan by dael, so that the, by ing honorable and saying we're going to just simply ck the best memorial no matter what, they also undeut their own master plan so that has made everything complicated trying to get these things to someh align a little bit better. it turned out ofcourse to veryxpensive. the othething that has made it very difficul is that there is a huge, huge amount of work that had to be done underneath this te. and that had to be in effect pretty much finished before anythingould move forward. memorial, office building, anything. and there was some question about remns that may still be there and that kind of thing. >> that as well. >> understanbly sensitive. >> yes, of course, o cour. >> so give methe timetle now. >> wl, ihink they are w hoping that the morial d the museum connected to it and the museum by t w ishat, there was once going toe a more elaborate visual artscomplex there as well. that has now kd of morphed to just the 9/11 museum designedy a ver good swedh -- rather norwegian and american firm. it's a kd ofnteresting geometric glass structure that will be there. that they were hoping to have ready for the tenth anniversary of the terrorist attacks whic would be september 2011. >> two years. >> two more years. >> right, two years from today. >> whose's theost portant politic figure in pushing this forward? >> well, right nowt's sort of hard to know i there even is one. >> new york govnor has weaken. >> the governohas weakened. i would say during t pas tacki administration e governor onew york was absolutely the most powerf person. many of the problemswe can lay at his feet i'm sorry to y. but nonheless he w the one with theost cards. now power is en more diffused makinit even more give, really. the port authority has fair am of power. rry silverstein ill holds a lot of the cards in his ha. the governors of both new york and new jersey. but as you said there not a huge amount -- >> the -- the figure who is probably the strongest just in a general way is mayor bloomber but structurally the mayor actually does not have ve much authority over this. even ough that is the office that is hd by the guy who actually sort of has it together best of abody, u might say. >> do we know whahis desires are. >> y, we do, actually. in fact, the mar has been, think, constently right on this subjt from the beginnin the mayor really d t nt to see the site rebut with just fice buildings d memorial. he had hoped tthere wod be housing. in ct when i did a piece in "the new yorker" a cple years ago saying why don' we just start all over again and change the program, the only time the mayor haever actual picked up the pho and called me and said to me, that was great, y dn't yo write that two years ago. >> rose: yeah, right, y didn you write that two yes ago. >> i shoulhave, you are absolutely right. i ought i said it but i guess i didn't say i strong enough. >> re: thank you for come on this day. >> thank you wrz the book soon to be i book stor why architecre matters. he is a man o loves and is passiona about architecre. and passiote about this city. back in a moment. we'll ta about tens. stay with us. >> donald dell is here. he is a tennis entreeneur, a pioer in the business of sports manement, a lyer, and ormer tennis player for fi decades he has reprented some ofports's most recognizae figures including arur josh, jimmy conners and michaeljordan, at the beginningf open air tennis he wa instrumental in et krooing e modern professional game. he writes about that and otr experiences innever make the first offer, september wh you should. i'm pleased to have donald dell, a friend of long-standing at this ble for the firs time. welcome. thank you, charlie. eat to be here. >> rose: before i go to this let's talk a bit of ten i -- nnis which hasbeen your life in part along with a t of other causes. the u.s. ope, were taping this on friday. and tomorrow is men's semi-finals, we ho. what does it look ke? >> well, if they d't play the nadal match tonight that was unfinished last night, they can't finish t tournament until mday. because they a only in the quarterfinals of the ms in that one partilar match. >> rose: one quarterfil to termine the last semiinal. >> exactly. >> re: so what is the weather report. what is happening, does look like it is ing to go. >> they're not sure. >> rose:y the time w broadcast we wilknow. >> it great argument now foa roof overhat stadi which we have been tking about for about fiv years. >> rose: wimbledon has a roof. >> they hadhis year, first time. >> ros how do you see it, let's assume for the ske that it is nadal. so you've got nad in one federer in thether. >> right. >> rose: tl me how you see these games and th matchups. >> wl, dellpotral is a awfuy good player playing nadal. >> rose:e lost the first set. >> yeah. >> re: no, he is already in the semi. >> in the quarters nadal s won the first setnd it got rainedut. >> and thenon the other side you got derer. he's playing josephitch. you have to favor ferer. but i tell you the rainnd thweather situationi thk disfavours federer. and you mit say why. well, because he's got a pattern. and he well respected thout of to behe best player. busuddenly everything gets screwed upn the scheduling. you might not start 11:00. you might start at 6:30. >> rose: meani he is taken off his rhythm. >>eah, exactly. m not saying that will cause him to lose. >> rose: why doesn't it affect others the me way. >> just becae he is the best player on fo. if everything is normal, federer is t best player. but th minute youstart changing the who line-up, the weather, today it very ndy, tremendous nd out there. it stopsaining and it is cloudy and cold bu windy t st changes a little bit the elemts. and i thin that hts the strong favorite,yself. >> rose: whado you think ofis opponent. >> well. rose: in the semis. >> in the ses he isn awfully good pyer. i think dellpro will meet nadal beuse i think nadal has been ht. he pullea muscle or something the otr night, stretched it. delpotra played really we. ithink he is awfully stng. >> rose: cou you argue the delay coulbe helping nada because of the smach problem. >> sure, a little more te will help m, no questio about th, that will help nada >> rose: but he is n yet up to thlevel of play that he was at wbledon when he won wimbledo. >> the differee is he ha't played since may when he got hurin the fnch. pued a muscle aftwards. and it is mat toughness. likeeverything, this is mano ammano. ifou are not matched tough, ereas the other three guys e playing all summer. federer d take a long rest aftewimbledon, three or four weeks. then he comes band and wins cincinnati so you ow he is confident. and i think roger has proven he is the most consient player, since he the eatest player ever. ink about this, 17 out o 18 semi-nals or finals 17 out of 18 grand slams. i mean noby has done tt in t history ofhe sport. >> ros if he is not the greatest player in the world, re is a guy who is. this guy. >>odney george labor. >> the reason, charlie, he is so good isu have to really understand th background of tens. in 196 he won the grand slam. and then he turd pro with ck cramer, played on t cramer tour. coul't play any grand slams. >> rose: tell me about nick boliterri. >> iove nick. ni has a real, he has a spirit about that academy. there is an enthuasm in the air that h personally has created year in,ear out. when you go there, areyou ki of fired up even when are you tting there watching these yng players play. i ge excited because ere is an atmosphere of coetition, of imprement, seriousness thate's created er the years. and you got to give itto hi >> he is 80 something. >> i think his celebrating his 80th birthday soon. >> he looks out 60. >> and his enthusiasm for those -- a they beat m. everybody hato go to florida. >> oh, way. >> for a period tre. agassi has got new memoir, you have heard aut this. >> well, know, i have been to his school out there in s vegas. what he has done witthat cause for heing children in the city of l vegas is, i mean youiterally almost turn toears when you see these kids al walking in, they all have unorms. you walk upnd ask them something. theyay yes, sir, no, sir. and then the rece. >> rose: any link between that and the ft atandre inis eyes ihink and in many peopls eyes, he never had a childhood becau he was turn mood a tnis mache early on. >> he waa player at5, down at the academy playing i think he jt did so well. >> rose: wasn't hay because he kepcoming back home. >> de so well, s long. think he really wantedto help others around him. he had -- he has stiltoday great desire thelp others in tennis. >> rose: speak of your friend and peop you have known,atch this take. >> how did artr ashe win? >> ver mply. two nigh before,after the semi-final a grouof us t down at thelayboy club in londonto figure out what my best chances would be of beating jimmy conner two days later. >> rose: who were the peop there at the tle. >> marty reeseon, charlie, donaldell, maybe aouple others. >> rose: a couple friends anddvisors. >> yes. and whatwe came up with was a game plan th we were sure would give nners difficty on grass. t then the next question you could dot. >> rose: he is the plan, u can execute it. >> rightcan you execute it. and itasalled as you recall, a rad call change of strategy ibeing on a grass court. >> rose: i game you had not played before. >> i h never tried it on a grass court. >> re: what was the strategy? >> well, to take the speed off the ball, giveim a lot of junk we call it. becae he, conners is a very good counrpunch. the harder you tt, the better he likes it. >> rose: right. >> keep the ball down the middle so at he can't ope the court with wide ale. and get my first serve in. and pull himo the net, lob over his two-handed backhand. and it worked. >> rose: there ia man you love. >> charlie, we lost a lot when we lost arth. he was scial. i rememb that conversation that nht at the playy club. becausthe next morning i used to always fromtime to time, iwould travewith arthur. i sn't marriea lot the ti when he first startedin 68 and irote him a note. and i ver dreamed. i pu on a little envelope and i wrote fr points out how to play coners that we had discussed the nighbefore at the plaoy cl. and low and behold arth goes out on the match an the second changeove, hes sittg there, you know, i thought he w meditating. and he is reing this stupid ltle envelope with four littleoints o i >> ros one of them was hit softly to his forehand. thother was lob over the backhand se. hit your fst serve into the backhand. iean basic things, u know but henever had played quite that way. and he beat him, it was 16-1 odds against when h played him becae he hadn't bten hi >> rose: i saw tt game, i was in europend saw that. i thought thiss wonderl. because you dinot believe he could do it and he jus was beyond anybody you knew in sports. was such a greatman. >> he did an awful lot f this country and wouldave done an awful lot more if he had lived. i think he would haveun for e united states senate or the congress, certaly in new york. >> rose: d he go to west point. >> he was a second lieutenant. heent to ucla with chare. they were roommates. he graduatedrom ucla went in the ay and was effectivy assigned toest poin went to west poi for two years. >> he is another picture, donald dell d arthur ae, don't know where this is. >> this at his home in florid this book is called never make the fir offer, except when you shoul wisdom from a master deal ker. tell u some wisdom. well, it has just been a fun experience writi it. and talking about the different things you try to learn. first of all,hereason the title, neverake the first offer, you are seeki infoation. you are ying to learn not saying wt you want. you wa to listen to wt the other guy, as say in there. >>ecause they say something in which ty are thinking about givinyou a lot mo than you are ev going ask for, the negotiation isver. >> mbe they are not. but at least you lear you learn by listening, not talking. that is the rl secret. and i thk the arof negotiation is rlly a study in human nature. if i want todo avery seous negotiation, i never nt to do it on the phone. or certainly not b e-mail. you want to do it face-to-face so you can get the feel of the other person. d as i say in that book, the two thgs that really matter mosin life, charlie, in yourersonification of it, are relationships built on trust. that's what it is all about. >> rose: absolutely. we said that earli today that i exactly whatt's about. >> and remember, the sportsnter industry like litics is a very, very small instry. are youoing too back and netiation with a lot of thossame people, time and time again. so the precedent on how y set yourselfnd whether you keep your word and whher you make the deal and honor it, all that gets aund. word of moh is everything in the sports world rses tell me about ur assessmentf sports agenc today. and this a whole show but give mthe short version. >> wl, ihink sadly the are somereat ones and some very bad ones. i mean it' 500. they are likeood doctors and good lawyers. and there are d ones. and unfortunately, manof the horror stoes you read, 50% ofhem are probably true. onof the things that's really to me been discouraging, and it hasn't haened yet in golf and tennis because they are individual sports. but in t team spts of footballnd baskball, quite honestly, everybody along the way is ying to get paid. i mean the entourages, the au coach, the high school coach, i mean thestreet guys. i an they are in it for money. they are not in it because they are trying to help johnny. >> right. and so the agents are at the end of that food chain. and we get blad for a lot of things that actually we may not be sflofd aall. but it'sery hard todayn both football and bketball. you really have to be very reful with your hon and your iegrity. because you are going to lose it veryasily if you play the game by their rules what i'm trying to say. >> rose: b what are their rules? >> their rules are you s to an aau coach says yea i will send him to university xx and when he turns pro i expect tbe paid something. >> rose: what is it about dean smith and his ability and roy williamsow but dean especially to maintain this sort of extraornary relationip betwe the program and the player >> dean smith spends a certn amount of his time when he was the head coach every day talking to former players, whether it's in l.a. or whether is jordan. or a -- i mean he had a whole 20 plars playg. tommy larde way back, you know and think roy williams, i know has continued the thing. the whole trend istay close to your players after they graduate. >> finally the u.s. en and th women's final. what do you see there? >> well, i think frutfuy, sena is the best player like roger d i think what the wilam sisters have don for tennis is qui phenonal. one ofhem has won seven out of the last eight grand slam titles. seven t of eight, two sisters growing up togetr. i don't think inmerican tennis they really have gotern theirue. i me they are a phenomenon and a forcehat is unhear of. >> rose: so te me what it is about the traing they had that mad them as goo as they are. >> first of all chard, thr father was totally the boss when th were little. i went dow when they we 13 and 15o see them practice. he would have them out on the court, eac one w a hitting partner. and he wld walk around and tell them different ings that hwanted them todo. like i want yoto hit 20 minutes of forehands. or i want y to practice your serve. and de something -- >> rose: this is not a guy who knew a t about tennis. >> no,e learned it. read it out of books and watched film. he educated himself. >> rose: t book is called never make the first offer cept when you ould, wisdom from aassive deal maker. donald dell, founder of proserv. ank you. >> charlie, thanyou. >> rose: pleasure to have you here. >> thank you for joining us. see you next tim. captioning sponsored by rose communication captioned by dia access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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