About his life in the mafia. Also joining the conversation in studio is dan pearson. Dan is the executive producer of i married a mobster on the discovery channel. Hes also the coauthor of the new book last don standing, which profiles the life of ralph natale. Dan, thank you for being with us. Dan pearson well, thank you for having me. Rosemary and ralph, youre with us by phone . Ralph yes, i am. Rosemary so, ralph, you were a government witness. You keep your whereabouts secret, but you are not in the Witness Protection Program . Ralph ive never been in the Witness Protection Program, never. Rosemary as i mentioned, you keep your whereabouts close to the vest. What can you tell us about your life now . Ralph well, im living pleasantly with my wife. And im at an ease with everything, and im happy to answer any questions because everything ive put down in the book and i told dan and larry is true. Rosemary ralph, in the book and especially towards the end, dan, you write about this, he has a growing family. In a lot of ways, now hes seen as a grandfather and a greatgrandfather. Ralph yes, i am. Rosemary so, you consider yourself a family man . Ralph i am. Well, actually, ive never been married to anybody but my wife, and theyre all my children. And i have 10 grandchildren and 11 greatgrandchildren, and theyre all fine, and my children are fine, theyre all educated. They got nothing to do with my other life at all. Dan reading what i read, inquired about ralph, they didnt match. Ralphs name garnered respect, fear, and loyalty. So, when we got together, i saw this guy, whoyou know, it wasnt for me to judge this mans life, but what i did want to know was howwas the beginning, middle, and his new beginning, because today is his new beginning. Rosemary i mean, ralph, you talk as though you are a changed man, but youve told me that you are not remorseful for the murders and crimes youve committed. Ralph im still the same man i was. Todayi realized as a young boy what i was capable of, and didnt feel one ounce of sympathy for anybody that tried to push me when i was a youngster, or when a man, somebody that threatened my life. And i took action, and im not remorseful. Im happy my familys doing well, im doing well, and im talking to you. Thats what counts. Rosemary dan, you describe ralph in the book as a killer. In fact, thats his title. Dan well, you know, the way i look at is this. When youwhen you look back at where he came from and what people like himself come from, he came from a discriminatory background. Now, in the 40s, 50s, the italians, if you had vowel at the end of your name, you were looked upon a certain way. So, maybe the opportunities that were afforded other, if they had been afforded to ralph and people like ralph, maybe he would have changed, went a different way. But ralph is who ralph is, and hes unabashed. And for that, i respect him. I may not agree with him, but i respect him. Rosemary ralph, on that note, you know, you say you took no pleasurein the book, you know, you tell dan you took no pleasure in killing. But in reading it, you do get a sense that theres a pride almost in your work. Ralph i never took pleasure out of hurting anyone, but if somebody had to be hurt and there was a problem, i did. And i came home, and i resumed my family life and where i live. And if it was again, id do itid do it again, and do it over again. But now, im 82 years old, im happy, im happy with my wife. We celebrated, oh my god, 64, 64 years of marriage, of lasted marriage. And thats our life. Rosemary sure. Many see mob culture as glorified murder. Is that a fair statement . Ralph well, theres a difference between glorified murder and killing. When people have to get killed in the mob, most of the time its warranted under our rules. Its not glorified. When they talk about glorifying a murder, theyre not killers, theyre murderers. A murderer is a different man than a killer. And thats how ive always done it in my life as a young male, man, until now. Dan well, i sort of see it as the same way a fortune 500 company lets go of someone in a firing. They fire people in a different way, except that their firing was a finality. Ralph right. Rosemary well, and againstand against the law, lets not forget that. Dan yes, it is all against the law. It is all against the law. But i think that in the way theyve come about their lives as immigrants, they had to set their own rules, so it was sort of a government within a government. So, this is how immigrants have always beencome about. So, you know, i dont condone it. You know, its against the law, but i understand it. Ralph well, rosemary, in the book, its in one of the chapters, love and devotion. Theres a couple pages here, i explain angelo bruno. And i explain my mentor, john de tullio, who was known as skinny razer. In that two pages, it will explain how i felt, and what i was, and what they were. It fully explains it, but they have toyou have to read this and read it thoroughly. Then youll understand who i am and what i became. And i live my life without remorse, without regret. And thats how i feel, and im glad that dan explained it, but thats my life. I did what i had to do. Rosemary ralph, you also talk about your upbringing. And dan, you write about this, and the role your parents and your upbringing played in your future life. Ralph well, what ithe way i grew up was without love and without feeling. Im not making thisand this is not thei found out early in life that if you dont show who you are, youre going to be in trouble the rest of your life, ralphie. And thats how it began. And i show it, and i felt it, and i show what i did, and i rose up with people. And yes, i worked, i had a job in a bar, i took over unions. But i met some great people along the way, i bought some Beautiful Homes for my wife and family, and the last home we had was in california, and it was beautiful. And maybe thats where im going to end up soon, in california. Rosemary are you giving us a hint as to where youre whereabouts may be, or soon be . Ralph well, somewhere on the west coast. Rosemary ralph, you did two stints in prison. The first time, you did not testify against other members of the mob. Ralph please remember that. Please remember that, rosemary. I wasexcuse me, i didnt mean to interrupt you, but i had to answer. When i was in prison, they gave meout of 2 sentences, it was 27 years. Mythe time thataccording to the prison guideline rules, i was only supposed to be given 52 to 80 months on all those crimes that they convicted me of. But they gave me 27 years. And thats why they called me before the Senate Investigating Committee in 1982. And in 1982, they offered me, weif you give us the right answers, we will reduce your sentence, and youll be home in 3 months. At that time, i only had 3 years in on the 27 year sentence. I said, you got the wrong man. And i said it openly on cspan. And i told the senator, senator rutland from maine, he was getting upset that i wasnt giving him the right answers. He answeredhe asked me about angelo bruno, nicky scarfo, and of course tony accardo. I could have put away all of them and everybody else instantly, half of new york and half of chicago, and i refused. And thats part of the record. And i did my time, and i came home. Rosemary sixteen years, correct, the first time in prison . Ralph thats the first, yes. Dan you know, what i noticed in researching the story is that ralph was caught in between two generations. Hes caught in betweenralph was born in 1935. Hes caught in between people born in the 1890s, early 1900s, the people he looked to, the people he learned things from. Then he comes home and hes dealing with people born in the late 50s and early 60s. One was a secret society, the other was a, me, me, me, look at me, situation. Rosemary were talking about obviously what led up to his second time in prison, and the second time, testifying against other people, including joey merlino. Dan ralph can explain that better than i can. Rosemary ralph . Dan there you go, ralph. Ralph okay, its a simple explanation because it is the truth. When i was arrested, iwell, actually, i wasat the time that they put me back in prison, i was violating my parole. I went back in, and i looked to joe merlino. I said, joe, you take over and make sureyou got to make one thing, because we made this a long time ago when you were in prison with me, in my first bid. But hed went home, he only had a short bid then. I said, we made it, we shook hands, you tell all the fellas that when i come home, well straighten this problem out in the city of philadelphia because im going to take it. And from that moment on, if i have a problem and i go away, you have to take care of my wife and family. And if you ever go away, your girl, your wife, your mother, ill take care of them. We shook hands and we kissed each other on the cheek. Now, after that was done, when i wasmy wife who i call every month, did any stop by, my friends . Nobody, not even a dime. And when i came home, they were living in their mothers homes and driving somebody elses car. When i left 45 months later, they were driving bmws, mercedes, and they all had homes. And they sent me absolutely nothing. So, it was my duty as a man to my family now, my real family, to tell them, oh yeah . Im going to see them in the courtroom, and im going to call them what they are. And i used the word punks, and i called them that every day i was on the stand, 14 days. And thats what they were, and that what they still are. And i have no shame, no nothing. I lived my life as a real man, and whenever its my time to die, ill die like a man. Rosemary well pick up this story in just a moment, dont go away. Coming up, well talk more to ralph natale about why hes speaking about his life now, and if hes worried about the repercussions. Ralph not a word in a year when i was away. Not a dime to come to my wife, imagine that. Thats what they did to me, and thats why im here and im telling my story. Im not in a program. Honey nut cheerios gets their delicious taste from honest ingredients. Like real delicious honey and real oats. Okay thats still honey. Huh, there we go. Were back to honey again. Whos directing this . That guy. Figures. Try new very berry cheerios. The taste of real fruit in every bite. So berry good. Ralph and joey and i made a vow to one another, in the course of this era, if i get killed, or if i get put away for life, or anything, you make sure you take care of my wife, my family. Rosemary we just heard former philly mob boss, ralph natale, talking about a jailhouse conversation he says he had with reputed mob boss joey merlino. Natales joining us on the phone from an undisclosed location. He was a mobster turned government witness, but says he is not in the Witness Protection Program. Also with us is dan pearson, hes the executive producer of i married a mobster on the discovery channel. Thank you both for being with us. Dan, of course, youre also the coauthor of the new book last don standing about the life of ralph natale. So ralph, i want to pick up where we left off about joey merlino, and that sound bite we just heard from you sort of ties into it. With this book, you are openly calling joey merlino a punk. Are you worried about stirring up bad blood with this new conversation . Are you worried about your safety or your familys safety . Ralph im not worried about anybody or anything. I never did and i never will. What he did, he did. Its the truth. Why should anyone be upset about it . And if they are, shame on them. Rosemary ralph, you told me earlier once that you believe you are going to heaven. Ralph well, when i say going to heaven, i dont know what kind of heaven im going to go to, but im certainly not going to serve my time in hell if there is a hell. I really donti dont consider this or that because when i die, i die. I have noi lived 82 years. Thats a great, great 82 years. If i go tonight, i go. Rosemary if somebody comes after you tonight . Ralph whats that . Rosemary if someone comes after you tonight . Ralph they better be able to shoot good. Rosemary dan, i know you wanted to talk about Atlantic City. Dan yes. Ralph . Ralph yes . Dan can you explain to them what the three don bond was . Ralph okay, ill settle it real fast. Word got to Carlo Gambino through his sons lawyers that they were trying to raise money on wall street and different places in new york because Atlantic City was going to put it on the voting thing, the next election, and they were going to pass the gambling thing for atlantic county. So, everybody got excited. At that time, carlo sent for ang, and ang went over to see him, up in new york. They decided they were going tobecause it belonged to ang in his area, but everything that belonged to angelo bruno was partly with Carlo Gambino, because of him, and they shared their revenue. So, when they heard this here and there, and when carlo heard it, he said, we got to do what we got to do. And were going to use that young man that worked for you that has killed upon yourkilled upon your request, as i know, and he has done everything for you, and hes got his own union. Were going towere going to send him to chicago to see tony accardo, whom nobody could go see him. But they said, were going to send him. And when he goes there, hes going to be given the means and the way to make Atlantic City ours, and hes going to take over that union with the union that he already had in south jersey. And thats as simple as it was. I went to chicago, i met tony accardo, i met everybody in chicago. I came home, everybody was satisfied, and we made Atlantic City. Rosemary there are some people out there, some critics, i suppose, who say that you were not truly the boss, that maybe you were an underboss fronting as the boss. What is your reaction to that . Ralph who said . Well, first of all, i was never an underboss. I was a boss. Dan well, the fbi says he was the boss. The u. S. Government says he was the boss. And the judge that sentenced him said he was the boss. Rosemary dan, it seems as though part of your intrigue, a big part of your intrigue with ralph natale, is his relationshipwas his relationship with jimmy hoffa. Dan well, you know, it was. I asked him about jimmy hoffa. He pulls out a picture, the only picture confirming jimmy hoffas relationship with the mafia was a picture of ralph and jimmy hoffa in washington dc. Ralph he made one mistake in his life when he decided that he wanted to take back the teamsters. I knew he was headed for the greatfor the ground. I knew he was going toand i could have smelled that damn ground of a grave while i was talking to him. And i tried to talk him out of it, he said, no, i got to do what i got to do. Rosemary ralph, thank you for joining us, we appreciate it. Ralph thank you for asking. Rosemary yep. Ralph and its been a pleasure, my pleasure to get a little bit of this off of my mind. Rosemary when we come right back, well hear more from dan pearson, who says he may seem like an unlikely mob aficionado, but not if you knew his background. By the time the drugs rannd wout, i was addicted. It happened so fast. I ended up on the streets, where the drugs are cheaper and easier to get. I was a full blown heroin addict, selling my soul to get high. When i realized i needed help i didnt know where to go. But i got help and you can too. Youre not alone. Help is within reach. Call 844 reach nj or visit reachnj. Gov. The road to recovery starts now. Rosemary were back with dan pearson. Dan is the executive producer of i married a mobster on the discovery channel. Hes also the coauthor of the new book last don standing, which is about the life of ralph natale. Tell us what started the project. Dan it was the peeling back of the onion of American History and the mafia, and how intertwined they were. It really grabbed me. Atlantic city, jimmy hoffa, tip oneill, ed hanley, the unions. It wasit never stopped. So, im a history buff, and thats what really intrigued me. Rosemary you also grew up around this lifestyle. Dan yeah, its kind of funny. I was an abused child, in the streets as a child, and i helped this young man, another kid who was getting his sneakers stolen from him, a tiny kid. And i helped him, we became friends after that, and i wound up living in his house. And his father was a very wellknown gentlemen. And i do call him a gentlemen because he was a gentlemen to me. But whatever he did outside, he did outside. Through the kindness of his heart, he took care of a child, and a child that didnt look like him. So, you know, through that, i grew up around a bunch of different people. So, i learned the inner workings of different scenarios. Rosemary this friends father was involved with the mafia, to be clear. Dan this friends father was an underboss in one of the five families, yes. I always knew exactly what it wasnt. There came a time in life where i had to make a decision whichwhat was the way i was going to go . And that wasnt the way i wanted to go, you know . So, i made my past pay for my future, and this is what i write and sell. Rosemary you touch on a very interesting dynamic because there are people who will hear ralphs interview and say, this man is a coldblooded killer. Dan you only know what you know if you havent been exposed to other things. So, if your hero is a guy on the corner in a suit, then thats who your hero is. If you dont know anything other than that, thats who you aspire to be. Thats who he knew. He knew the guys on the corner with the flashy cars, the this, that, and the other. Remember, hes a child of the depression. And he also is a child of discrimination. So, i understand discrimination because my color is my Scarlet Letter when i walk in certain rooms. So, by me being able to express these opinions and the lifestyle of these folks, maybe ralph did it with me because he was thinking outside the box. Were a different duo. Rosemary dan pearson, thank you very much for joining us in studio. Dan thank you so much. Rosemary absolutely. We buy any car dot com we buy any car dot com any any any any did you know trading in your car at a dealer could cost you money . A recent study found consumers who trade in their car pay an average of 990 dollars more. So dont trade in. Sell it. To we buy any car. Learn more and get your free online valuation now at we buy any car dot com find out how much your car is worth at webuyanycar. Com rosemary thats it for this edition of nbc10 issue, thanks for joining us. You can join me every saturday starting at 5 a. M. , and sunday at 5 30 a. M. Have a great week. Some have it, some dont. When the odds are stacked against you, you either hide or stand up. 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