whistleblowers. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 let's start this story from the beginning. steven friend made a complaint to the f. b. i inspector general saying that the f b, i's leadership has become increasingly politicized. he offered proof that the f, b, i's washington d. c. field office was exaggerating the threat of domestic terrorism, even calling parents who complained about educational curricula in their children's schools, potential terrorists. he argued that many of the f b i's targets were having their civil rights and civil liberties violated. and even on the left, he pointed to the recent arrest of 2 protesters at an oil company who threw glitter and unfurled a banner at an oil company. those 2 protesters were charged with terrorism, but the charge was later thrown out in the specific incident that led to his whistle blowing. stephen friend was ordered to participate in a raid in daytona beach, florida, where the f b. i was going to arrest people who were alleged to have committed misdemeanors, just minor crimes. he told his leaders that this violated f b. i regulations and constituted an illegal use of force. he said that he had taken an oath to uphold the constitution, and that he would not participate in an ill legality. it was the end of his career . our guest today is former f. b. i special agent chief division council and famed whistleblower calling rally calling more than almost anybody else understands whistle blowing at the f. b i calling rally joined the f. b, i in 1981 just after finishing law school after assignments in new york and abroad, she took up a position at the f. b. i field office in minneapolis, minnesota, where she became the chief division counsel. and where she taught constitutional law to other f, b i. agents, and to police officers. following the attacks of september, 11th, 2001 calling rally wrote a paper for then f b. i director robert muller saying that f b, i personnel in the organizations headquarters in washington, d. c. had mishandled information provided by the minneapolis field office regarding zacharias massage. we a suspected terrorist who had been involved in preparations for a suicide attack. similar to september. 11th way, back in 1994. she identified failures in them with our investigation that left the united states vulnerable on september 11th. in may, 2002 rally was called to testify before congress and before the 911 commission, about the f. b. i's pre 911 counterterrorism lapses that testimony led to a major reorganization including the creation of a new f b i office of intelligence and the hiring of a significant number of f. b. i. agents with critical language skills in 2002 rally was named time magazines person of the year, along with 2 other whistleblowers. colleen, welcome to the show. let's begin with what must have gone through stephen friend's mind. his attorneys have told the media that this is not a partisan issue. friend did not even vote for donald trump in the 2020 election. instead, he had a genuine concern for protecting the civil rights and civil liberties of americans . and he took his oath to the constitution seriously. i believe that his calculations were similar to what you and i considered before blowing the whistle. what are your thoughts? well, if it's like myself and other whistleblowers, i think friend probably did not come to our quick realisation overnight, but that it was one thing after another. and actually this also falls in the context of this longstanding russia gate cover up of hunter biden. so there were preceding events that had to probably influence his thinking. and then of course, he sees a, a violation of the administrative and investigative guidelines for the f b i. why would the f b, i fire steven friend when he made a legitimate whistleblower disclosure just as he was trained to do, he didn't go to the media. he didn't even go to the congressional oversight committees. he went to the f b, i's inspector general. so why punish him like that? i think he originally went to a supervisor. so in fact he went up the chain of command and that's, that's a sign of a legitimate genuine, authentic whistleblower that they try at the lowest levels. and then when they don't get answers, they go up the chain of command, and obviously the department of justice inspector general would be the correct entity to evaluate this. i will say one thing about alleging a violation of the invest the f b. i is investigative and administrative guidelines. these are big, thick books that they show you at when you go through f b i training school, but of course no one, no one is able to get through those. those are sick manuals. and of course, if you have a question, you can look up things or you can ask your, your attorney in your office. but when i was working, it was almost a badge of honor to violate all of the rules. in fact, one of my assistance, special agent in charge in, in new york city, he wrote a book bragging that you can't get anything done. and if you follow those rules and actually says the new york way, of course, was to cut the corners and do the work without worrying about the rules. so steven friend, obviously was in the f. b i. he knows that a lot of corners get caught. and of course, he's alleging that there was a violation in this case, and we'll have to see if the inspector general evaluates it that way. compare this to your own case, colleen, or to the cases of other f. b. i whistle blowers like jean turner or fred waiters. was there something that stephen friend should have done differently? do you think actually he, i think he did it the right way and he does have, you know, many signs of being genuine. as i said, this is, this isn't a stand alone item. you have to take into context the prior, the way the f b. i was politicized after trump selection. and you know, the fact is they lied to the fight. the court about that christine dossier which has been completely debarked. so of course he's, he's using his mind to put what he now sees are happening after the january 6 where they're, they're making it look like it's a nationwide problem. by the way, this is exactly what happened with 911. if you remember that 911 was a one on one incident or 2. if you call our count the pentagon, but it still was basically one incident in new york city, washington d. c. and the plane that crashed in pennsylvania, but what happened after 911, the f b, i made it seem like it was a nationwide program by putting a lot of incentives and pressures on the field offices to come up with these cases . you know, a lot of it was really kind of almost bordering, if not actual entrapment to make it look like terrorism. l k to terrorism was a nationwide program. and our problem excuse me was a nationwide problem. and that's exactly what, what agent friend is alleging here is that by, by farming out the cases, but still controlling it from a politicized washington d. c. bureau that it was making it look like it was a national domestic terrorism, right wing domestic terrorism was nationwide problem when in fact it was confirmed to one date, january 6 and in one place washington, d. c. basically, i would say that the january, the way the f b i handled the january 6 a riot is exactly the same way that they handled the the same way that they handled the 911. and they are exaggerated and amplified it for, for political reasons, of course, for because it was, are considered to be the, the favorite program of the day. and so they amplified, it served all their careers and it is coming from washington because in washington, that's the heart of where the politicization takes place. not so much in the field . colleen, what does this case say about the progress or the lack of progress? the national security whistleblowers have made in the last 15 years or so. well, i think there were a couple of additions, maybe tweaks to the law. i noticed that steve friend claim that he made a protected disclosure to his supervisor, his immediate supervisor. and i, i know that the prior law, the prior administrative regulations did not allow a whistleblower to make a protected disclosure to their supervisor. you had to go basically to the special agent charge with or to the office of professional affairs. you know, the inspector general and it wasn't. if you just said something to your supervisor, it was not considered a project, a disclosure. so i think some things have been changed slightly, but overall not c friend was suspended fairly immediately. and the f b i it looks like they didn't take much of his concerns seriously. now again, it remains to be seen. if a more objective inspector general will do that. it's possible, obviously the department of justice inspector general did find that the f b. i violated a lot of rules and lock in going to the making those false claims to the feisty court. so. so if you would hope that maybe the inspector general would come to the other conclusion, but the f b, i suspended him immediately and it doesn't look like they gave any credence at all to his disclosure. all right, colleen stay right there. you're watching the whistleblowers. we're going to take a short break and then return to our conversation with f. b i whistle blower calling raleigh, stating. 2 2 2 2 2 ah ah ah, what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy even foundation, let it be an arms race is often very dramatic. development only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very difficult time to sit down and talk because these are the fee i don't to screen all gone most mission funder, washington for the about sean. on out recently fun claudia with jonathan. and you play with a maintenance issue, engine remains in your deal when you come to the park, teach you show teach to go get a new owner of sheila can we do is get a minute. looks that on to remind you those now about boots from stoneleigh promotions to get a minute. those new when we stole grease ga. gov to other, but i should character, she's a new fact. he's until one ish. he says i so bad and also bushing big tier 2 doors from 2 swift uses. i'm so lazy. finish in v fan to the physical as all you could do a dead latrina son behind billing fun for by it. my daughter no police. my, me look on the ones when are spawns and dawson with bullying into isolated thought. you know, cranium, teeth, audio to anemia. idea. she ship, dr. lien, that report control in put you on board. so she'll be at the mo, the, the system really premium. did not sing the anthem. yeah, well with no chance actually jim's out of the room. there's a crazy start to lose to modern day my subway, but just dory. yes or no. i live here beliefs. get us. but we ship it with them that he has a daughter to take him over to them. i need a price quote for that, for a one. they each the one that or up with global i'm saying years about i few the college. busy he's the brought the enough liberty weekly. if you take a picture of i'll go double parade, you have to go so good on that. so you can. 2 ah, welcome back to the whistle blowers. we're speaking with f. b i whistleblower calling rally about the case of f. b. i. agents, steven friend, who complained about the politicization of the f, b i and the f b i 's, lack of respect for american civil rights and civil liberties. colleen, let's drill down a little into what steven friend has revealed. he said that he was a member of the f b. i squad that investigated and targeted pet of files and sex traffickers. but he was taken off that assignment and made to investigate people who had participated in the protest at the capital building on january 6th, 2021. i'm not talking about writers necessarily. he was told to investigate people who had participated peacefully. he told his supervisor on 2 separate occasions that he had a moral and ethical problem with this. he believed that the f b i was violating demonstrators 6th and 8th amendment rights. he told them that his previous work against pedophile and sex traffickers was more important. and so he was fired. is there a broader message here? what do you think this action says to the rest of the f b i's workforce? well i, i don't know. we only know what the news reports there are. there are some news reports that a larger segment of the f b i workforce is basically, um, a in agreement that when something happens, there is a knee jerk tendency in the f b. i to put all the resources on that issue. it again, the same thing happened with $911.00 after $911.00 and during the anthrax attacks, there were virtually no agents that were allowed to work health care fraud. and in a, in it white collar crime and all the other crime programs, the f. b, i investigates over 300, some different criminal statutes, federal criminal statutes. many of um, you know, like in the investigating child predators are very warrant. and what happens is, after some event like this, because washington, d. c is politicized. and it's, you know, for partisan purposes, there's always this push, push, pull going on between the 2 parties. and it looks like the f, b i gets caught in it. in many cases they seem to take sites, especially since, since truck trump selection, they seemed. and they, they excited with the democratic party and accepting the steel dossier as gospel truth, et cetera. so i think steve friend has a point here, which is that you, you can't allow this knee jerk reaction to take place when there's an event of any, any event at all. you have to keep, you know, should certainly devote enough resources to investigate that event. but in the case of protest, this is always been a problem. they can't separate peoples. and in a pull people's 1st amendment rights to peacefully, ah, you know, criticize they, they assume that if you're criticizing something that you must be on the terrorist side engaging in violence, there's a line between terrorism where you actually do engage in violence. and basically, just, you know, criticizing peacefully protesting outside, etc. and it's always been difficult for the f b i to, to understand that line. and especially in washington, they say, well, go get everyone and we'll sort it out later. and i think that's exactly what happened with the january 6 very basically the same way as happened after 911 with islamic this while i'm a phobia and going after claiming that there were all the sleeper cells when there wasn't it really the parallels are very great between the 2 events here, it's just that they're on slightly different part is insides, but they that the same reaction, the same knee jerk reaction. the u. s. government has a whistleblower protection law, but national security whistleblowers are notoriously exempt from its protections. when a national security whistleblower decides to report on evidence of waste fraud, abuse or illegality, he or she quite literally jeopardizes his career. stephen friend knew what he was doing. he was willing to take that risk. now that his information is public and he's lost his job. what advice would you give him? well, the, i guess the main advice is to try to hold on to the things that are most near and dear to yourself. obviously i think he has a family and that's important. i and i think is his wife has actually been punished . his wife has nothing to do with the f b i, but she lost her social media accounts because again, you talk about an over reaction and a knee jerk overreaction. this seems to be yet, so he's going to have to hold on to the things closest to him. hopefully he can get some financial support or at least in the short term until his case can be adjudicated. and hopefully he can get some support from the public at least to put some pressure on for a quicker adjudication of this by the inspector general so that it doesn't run, you know, for a, for a year or 2 when he's in limbo this entire time. maybe he can up, i don't know if you're suspended without pay. if he's able to get a 2nd job, maybe he's, he's able to support himself. i would think that he would, they'd have to let him be able to support himself some way and, and basically just keep is, you know, eyes on the, on the, on, on the truth here and, and ins be able to stick to his guns. there, there are other whistleblowers who do succumb to the pressure, and many of them do fall apart because it's just such a scary proposition to have. everyone seemed to be turning against you. if there are other agents that are have witness similar problems. this would also be the time for them to come forward to the inspector general and tell the inspector general what they no, no. in the my case about 911, there were many other agents said they actually did, you know, support the notion, the fee of the i was covering up the, the truth of 911. and that there were ways to have prevented it, et cetera. and, and there were per se features that were causing obstacles. the. 0 fights to wall, all of these things that, that were obstacles and there were, there were a lot of agents, a lot of people are afraid to speak out. but i think there were some that actually saved me because i think they did tell the truth about those such that situation. what can the rest of us do to help stephen friend or to help and encourage others considering becoming whistleblowers? it's a, it's a long and difficult road. what advice would you give them to make the experience a little bit easier? well, you know, that's, that's our $64000000.00 question. i don't know that you can make it easier if you're edward snowden and you know, look at him sacrificing his are sacrificing his basically his country as citizenship. in some ways in being, you know, pilloried largely pillory. you've got to develop thick skin, really thick skin and you have to understand who your true friends are. and i think in terms of issues, i might be that whistle blowers see issues more important as this kind of group loyalty. you know, very what people are to come to group oil t because it's, you know, it's very painful to have your friends and family turned against you. but there are other people who basically say, you know, this issue is, is that important? and they try, i will say to, to see friend eventually, a lot of people will recognize when you're right. they won't necessarily tell you that, but you know, there will be that over the years. you know, daniel ellsberg is a great example that people recognize that he was right, that the pentagon papers showed that the vietnam war should never have been started in 1st place. so even though at the time you know, people and friends turned against him, he was, was proven correct. and i think you have to have your eye on that long term goal. that's all we have for you today. we'd like to thank our guest f b i whistle blower, calling raleigh. i'm john curiosity and this has been the whistleblowers. thanks for joining us. we'll see you next time. 2 2 2 2 2 2 ah, ah, a shape out becomes the african and engagement. it was the trail. when so many find themselves, well, the part we choose to look for common ground. only 41 percent of usaa does have enough savings to cover a $1000.00 emergency. we have record numbers of americans who are on the verge of having their cars repossess more than a 137000000 americans are facing financial hardship because of medical debt. in america, we do have a welfare system in place to help people who are struggling financially, but it's a conditional system. you have to prove to the government that you truly need help . the simplest way, like explain a basic income, is that it's like social security for the rest of us. a basic income would be a monthly payments that would go to everyone. just a $1000.00 a month, no strings attached. i have out. i would like them me. i don't know. i just won't go crazy. the reason that i am a fan of guaranteed income because it is this idea that everybody is deserve it. and just by virtue of your being here ah with get a national fema barnett by showing up at lever roberts, in the buck us. yet i dislodged, fortunately i didn't. and then you viewed said, of course, ask us about doing a bruster. deacons. i don't know, ridiculously near shakia, and she had to sell homes to charlotte chavo try later for dylan. dan, no 1 june, watch hulu and billy eyes been, never did it, my son and i much bought on by madison i. tim de union is been galant of the tips for dungy shopping for just live. oh, i meant i wasn't acting an opinion. mm. you email me and i piece and then the billboard, you, and use. now you must clear, if you're not good at all with somebody, you're stupid. it got out of it, then yes, key elegance key did deals of work leanne aquinos ringing each neck. nico bang, bang gap from a guy important for which he goals ne, dealer space. thank does v a d and vic long know kiner investor pursuit from yes and talk and mid 5 hope come beyond if operation goes in on pivot boston. that's not mentioned. most liam con buses, probably mcgee, but jeff has all gone as i knew. won't grade on until better. yeah. it was. that was on the job. a few. yeah. then i'm going swoon him. got updated on the arms. actually, benton, should you do? 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