a with hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm peter labelle . western capitals in their point of corporate media continue to maintain the west is not at war with russia. however, the fact is, data is a co belligerent, supplying financial support, arms and diplomatic cover forgive when the west claims otherwise, it means it's losing a cross sucking the west war on russia. i'm joined by my guest, jo, lori and sydney, the editor in chief of consortium news dot com, in tulsa. we have jeremy who is mot of he is managing, editor of covert action magazine and in los angeles we have pi and he is a strategic planning consultant, a private equity advisor and an independent economic analyst. i gentleman crossteck rules and the fact that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate, let me go to jo 1st in sidney here, over the last week or so 10 days or so we've had piece proposals coming out. there's leaks about a possibility of the u. k. france and germany having a proposal from what i've read, it's very ukraine centric, not security, cedric and the chinese came out with a 12 point proposal which has been widely dismissed in the west here. so what is the strategic goal here? i mean, if it's all focused on ukraine, and if you look at the chinese proposal, it's heavy on security and i think that's the biggest difference between the 2. go ahead, joe. i think when on, if back more falls to russia is going to be a major turning point and a decision will have to be made will be a big humiliation for the united states for europe and for so asking, what do they do then? do they listen to the realists such as my crohn and shells as they are and peter, pavel, i was a check or public. org of them or to the neo cons in the us newland lincoln, southern and in europe, bear, buck, alonda, lion, et cetera. maloney, what is the order they're going to do, right then we don't really know where biden stange and all that which is of course key. do they decide that there has to be a deal with russia at that point? way ahead and don't forget, chokes and shots a micron told cholenski at a dinner in paris demanding february that just no way you crank or when the war sh . they had some commanding idea of launch and offensive gain, some more territory to push rush to the peace table. well, at this point, wretched to demand all the terms if they want, if and indeed, after buck mode, they decided that going to have to end this war. and that would mean for russia said they would want, obviously recognition crimea. and the for republics that voted to join russia, they want to demilitarization of ukraine, the disbandment of nazi malicious. and the dado and u. s. treaties that they propose at the beginning, in december 2021 that had that been taken seriously. this war, this phase of the war would not have happened. so will they be able to swallow a loss and give those terms to roger, this is the big question or will they escalate? well, jeremy, that's, that's a jo is got it spot on here because i recently had and lena bear about the german foreign minister say that go where it war with russia. and then samantha power on a c, n c. and then town hall said the, on the west is at war with russia. i mean, they keep saying they're not a co belligerent here. that's why jeremy, that the russians have a hard time trusting anyone. i mean, they say one thing on one side of their mouth and they do something else on the other side here. i mean there's, there's no, there's no interlocutor here, even jeremy. well, yeah, and even with the men's frame, you know, there was the mince peace frame or before. but we have the admission of angela merkel and before that poor shank that, that was just, you know, designed to by time you know, for the war that really they were planning on russia and we have, i mean, you can go back in history. i my book, the russians are coming again. sure. the 100 year padded the seats by the west and the united states, especially going back to the russian revolution where lenin was open to peace agreements and they sabotaged that. and then david, russia, i mean, you can look at the issue of nato expansion and the promise, the false promise. so absolutely, russia has no reason to trust the united states and to trust any agreements. and that's why i would think they would be, you know, i mean, i think they would, you know, if their terms are granted, like joe is saying, i mean, obviously they would accept it, but they know the track record and they know that they're out to get them so they have to be very cautious and gars about anything they do. well, of course, my guess and to my audience here, the, the terms and conditions of negotiation of already been set out and joe was right. it was on december, 17, 2021. it's there, it was made public and it was dismissed by western capital, particularly washington pine. let me go to you in los angeles. you know, the, the chinese proposal fascinated me. i mean, it wasn't everything that russia wanted. as a matter fact, the russian said we're, we're studying it very carefully that i mean, that was about is, is a tepid is response. if you could get here. but you know, the west, that's it want the chinese to be a power broker. i mean, it's a very nig, neo colonial and they're mine in their thinking is that they, how could the chinese be a broker? how, how, how could china come out on the, on the world stage, and mediate between invest in russia? i mean, it's a, it's a very backward looking approach, in my opinion. i mean, it's a major country, 2nd largest economy, maybe the biggest in the world. it's got a lot of clout and it should be listened to go ahead and buy in los angeles. everything is indirect, especially with the stakes high through global diplomacy. the chinese know if russia somehow i doubt it, but if they were to fall than the chinese would be next, right? a for what the west plans in turn. thus the chinese are soft signaling indirectly signaling their alliance. and the not just, you know, as a tight trading partner and whatnot, but a potential military backed, becoming stronger between these 2 year asian polls. for now, nato doesn't water direct war and can't afford it anyway. either economically or militarily nato's intention, i senses to simply try and reprise its experiences of the late seventies through the early ninety's. a word exhausted, the soviet union, using afghanistan's which i had dean tactically lowered oil and gas prices, and heavy global p. r. and forcing gorbachev's ultimate stell out nato. today's sheets to bleed. russia dry of resources, money, man, power armaments, patience and good will with her neighbors and her allies to isolate and alienate rush as much as possible through the onslaught of economic and financial sanctions . military attrition, propaganda humiliation. and anything else that pi rest was high or not growing and a lot of those things are in play. none, and all the things he just listed are not in play. what's, what russia's economy is growing. the you're in the west is into, in a growing into recession. i mean, there in the black here, not the red joe. one of the things that i find very frustrating is the terms and conditions of the narrative. because somehow to give a reprieve to ukraine to get as much territory and then sit down and talk. well, 1st of all, the russians have no interested in doing that whatsoever. the problem here is that the, the, the, the west is looking for some kind of strategic defeat of russia. that's not going to happen. but the way out of this is to talk about the indivisibility of security, where everybody gets security. the west refuses to talk about way, refuses flat out job. now getting back to square one fact to what russia's been talking about for years. i mean, ever since he elson himself was also opposed to nato expansion and they wanted extra security interest to be taken into account. couldn't ask clinton to join nato if they've continuously held a hand out to the west. and it's been clear what the west wants, that they want to get back to the years in the ninety's, when they ran many things in russia, they acid stripped, the formerly state owned industries and enrich themselves on wall street and a new class of oligarchs. and on the enormous resorts is that russians has is certainly what the west has been eyeing here, but they have to face the reality now. and again, it comes down to the realist versus the neo cons. will they begin to understand that their entire plan year, their information war, their economic war and their proxy were, are failing? the, of course the information were, is working only in the western european and american and united states. people believe the store, but anyway, everywhere else in the world, it is not believe these a whole new economic system that's been growing up. economic, monetary, financial, and commercial system in the u. s. and europe are going to have to face the fact that they're on the outside looking in. they are isolated themselves. this is not a china of 3040 years ago, a russia of the else in days. these are the complaint. it's not india 40 years ago or africa as well. so the entire world is changed and we seeing maybe the end of really the end of the last guess of colonialism that the african nations and latin america they are going to being neutral, formally, but certainly not putting sanctions on russia. they have, see, this is an opportunity now for new world to be created in front of our eyes. and united states is going to have to swallow it and realize that they're no longer the power that they think that they are. and they have to do that quickly, could throw out an enormously dramatic point in human history. and because of nuclear weapons may be the most dramatic point in history where they cannot escalate this. they've got to realize that bit off more than they can chew here. and get to a new arrangement and become another member of the national community. yeah, well, jeremy, that's something that is going to be almost impossible for the west to accept because it is being the throne as the hedge amman of the world. and that is something that they, that the west can't begin to comprehend. it's in their interest to do it, but they can't comprehend it. jeremy, i would tend to agree, and that's why we are a very dangerous moment in history of because they can accept this reality the show describing. and so there provoking conflicts now with russia and china at the same time. and these threatened escalated to world war or nuclear wars. and yeah, they know, it's like somebody's, you know, dog backed into a corner and i don't know, he's willing to almost engage in suicidal behaviors. what we kind of see and he can accept it. ah, so yeah, it's just, well, i mean, i think an example of that let me go to pine before we go to the breaker. just the destruction of the nord stream, a pipelines that was an act of desperation, ok. they have no means they have no arguments. okay? they're not reasonable people. and they will do the most unreasonable illegal. and that what, that's actually a terrorist attack. okay, 5 before we go to the break, go ahead. i mean it's nato's demo, or certainly that of the neocons and neo liberals. same strauss indifference. by the way, i mean to deceive, through tactical and seemingly random acts of sabotage, while chewing up the trust of so called allies. the higher the stakes, the shorter the time frames to act under the more desperately the cover of plausible deny a mil deniability must be sacrificed for the sake of doubling down on the optics of intimidation because it's better to be feared than loved. as the late donald rumsfeld said, paraphrasing machiavelli and seymour hersh was actually tasked by the establishment and writing as sub stacked piece on nord stream. as means of revealing the method in a cult speak, controlled opposition, as indirect confirmation of who and what i did neurons north stream in order to signal that they're capable and willing to come in industrial terrorism racks bore . yet again, it's mind boggling how the premium masses do not see how they don't play as my mind boggling to me. the german cancel would sit next, the biden, and not say a word about it. that's mind blowing to me, gentlemen, i have to go to a break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the west war on russia. stay with ah ah, during the 2nd world war in nazi occupied poland valencia was a farming region. today is mount of ukraine between 1943 and 945 members of the ukrainian insurgent army led by stepan bandera massacre, thousands of poles in virginia. in a diabolical ethnic cleansing process. the mergers were particularly horrific and brutal villages were burned and property looted. valinda massacre is without doubt, one of the bloodiest episodes in polish ukrainian history. my al ukrainian politicians, still reluctant to talk about these events, how to modern day ukraine and poland view. this tragedy of the past and wide as the memory of valeria stewart, divide people she lake by call, a magical place of fantastical ice clean waters, a dramatic geography. and of course, a unique echo system which has developed over the past 25 to 35000000 years. and of course, a place like this just checking you to come and experience it off for yourself. i'm in one version coming up on our t international. ah, welcome back across sack where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing the west war on russia. ah okay, let's go back to joe in sydney. i oh, joe biden. and for whatever, if you'd agree or disagree with him like or dislike him, he's done something unprecedented. and in post world war 2 history, he's allowing or targeting pivoting to a position where there is a great power conflict. every single president, since, after harry truman go to toe with the soviet union that don't go toe to toe with russia. joe biden is doing that. and the reason why they nodded states never did it in the soviet union, never did it because it becomes existential. you could actually lose, and probably both would lose this as unique and this is what makes it so very dangerous. if you look through history, great powers, avoid wars with other great powers. go ahead, joe. obviously, and yes, it's fred shocking. how biden has come through with this policy that we all fear. hillary clinton would have done a touchy one in 2016 and here we have and she wanted the no fly zone of assyrian ahead of the joint chiefs of staff at the time, testified that he, that will bring work russia. so even back then, the idea of a war with russia was just a non starter. was a taboo that has ended. but i don't think this, we're out of hope completely and i'll say this, there are realists. there are realists. there was, for example, frank thought to stein my or who is now the german president, not sanger much and symbolic position back in 2016. when there was 830000 nato troops exercise marching through poland. at the same time, divisions were being sent to the baltic. states right on the border with russia, nato divisions. he said it's not the a that we should not be saber saber rattling what russia, that anybody thinks that a tang parade on the border is a good idea, is out of their minds that we need to speak with russia and peter pol who is now the president elective to check republic was a nato commander at the time. said that we're not developing a defense barrier against russian because there's no intelligence showing that russia has any threat to ukraine. this was in 2016 russia gate was acting up. and at that time, they were these realist views that russia is not a threat to the west. and this entire exercise that people forgot about. now, 30000 troops. russia hasn't forgotten about that. so these people, these kinds of realist thinking and i have to put my crown and shelton that candle though they're extremely weak, specially shells. they have to win this battle. they have to argue their case behind closed doors, and we now it's leak to the wall street journal that they've told lensky he can't when they got to settle. so they started to read this. now when, when we hear this coming out of realists in the us, if there are any. and it seemed to be some recent pentagon that get biden's here and tell them you cannot do this any further that we got to find a face saving way out of this. because we bit off way too much here and were threatening to sculpture of civilization. so we have to hope that to realistic and in europe as well, can win out over these fanatics really and there are too many of them. i'm not very optimistic in that, in that respect, because jeremy on everything that joe says is absolutely right. but i mean, the tendency, this is ideologically driven, i keep saying, you know, what about peace and security. these people don't talk in those terms. it's a different idiom for them. jeremy, the, the, the argument that i keep hearing from these people in washington in london is that now we have to focus our energy on china and not russia. so it's the same mindset, okay? unfortunately, because of the way they're doing things are getting their good, they're confronting both at the same time. so as i started out, you know, great powers usually avoid a going toe to toe with great powers. now the u. s. is going toe to toe with 2 great powers jeremy. well yeah, i get to the same before just completely self destructive behavior. chris hedges gave a very, very powerful speech at the rage against a war machine rally. and he just talked about this world of allusions, that is neil cons live in the intellectual dishonesty. the willingness to see things realistically at all. and you know, i think they live in a kind of bubble. they're not in tune with regular people, certainly not. in russia, that region of the world. and so it's a very dangerous situation when you have this braided, as you put a kind of fanatics in, already seen this havoc, they've wreaked in the middle east. they're attempt to overthrow government after government. so i mean that the american government really has been hijacked by these extremists and it's a threat to humanity at this point. and yeah, it's unbelievable to be provoking china and russia at the same time, at a time when the u. s. economy is weakening and when china and the on these countries are becoming ever more stronger, you know, a pike. he give us the economics of it here. i mean, you've been on the program many times since the started the military operation in ukraine. and i've never really been able to comprehend why europe is willing to go down this path. you know, we have behind closed doors. you know, you have show to have mccrory, you know, you talk, you have to make tough choices. i think that's what they said. does lensky here? but what about the top choices for themselves? go ahead pie. i mean, all of this, you can, we can use all the labels until the cows come home neo con, neo liberal, a, you know, mandarins, whatever it begs the question over, who runs things genuinely and how they run things. all of this, mr. action all of this, a false flagging is a testament to the sense that those, that run things preferred. it obviously stay behind the scenes. i, you know, draw a multi billionaires to act in their stead. very, very old money drawing back a centuries and working on a new world order that's been centuries in the making and yet is very highly over. leverage to the tune of hundreds of trillions of dollars. and here they are having the playbook being flipped on them by the building your asian alliance. that is tying its monetary system to hard asset commodities. and yet a gold, physical, gold and silver and other precious metals, minerals, obviously, oil and natural gas. when you do that, you're basically calling the bluff. and not just since, you know, nixon took us off the gold standard 52 years ago or even bretton woods. but really begging the question of what the meaning of, of a numer or of money should be. and none of this can be obviously put out in the open because it would quote unquote effect confidence within markets, indices, everything. and hence, you just have to keep as, as the west and as those that are tasked with diplomacy or lack thereof. you know that the crazy man this, this nick sonia a concept of just, you know, act like you're completely nuts in order to have the other side to capitulate or a, you know, to mirror. and you know, that the playbook is completely open to a russian, china, in every way imaginable, and they keep calling bluffs. and so it comes down to what are you going to do? i me, it, yes, you're gonna need to sacrifice all of europe for sickly. in order to salvage, you know, you're already over leverage economic system, which there's no end in sight over how you're going to continue to destroy the earth and decimate the, the meaning of heart asset money. in order to, you know, have very, very powerful nuclear armed and tightly allied, your asian countries that have, as your other guests mentioned, the loyalty of the rest of the world. practically, at this point, i capitulate and it's not going to happen. it's not going to have, you know, joe, the, you know, i know we've had a number of times where, what i call peak zalinski, you know, in people wearing pins on their own pals and flags and all of that. but don't these don't, don't the people that claim to be backing ukraine or have sympathy for don't they understand that the policies that the west is promoted is actually destroying ukraine? i mean, what is going to be left of ukraine when this is all said and done? i'm not very optimistic, there'll be much left joe. well, if they are trying to figure out and understand what's really happening here, they're going to stop with this blind loyalty towards the u. s. and european message about this all being an unprovoked invasion, and they've got to start to understand some of the context for how this happened. otherwise you won't be able to get out of it except when statesmanship and this is . yeah, i agree with you peter. it's hard to be optimistic at all, but if you look back, eisenhower stopped curtis that may want to drop 300 atomic bombs and hydrogen bombs and rush under soviet union. and then there was the missile crisis, and kennedy worked it out by removing his michelle from turkey and he didn't know he'd been kept. but joe, that, but that's why i'm in the back. that's why you mentioned the postwar period, because biden is an anomaly. you know, all, you write the, these past presidents, you know, and maybe it's because of ego and legacy. but, you know, taking a line from dr. strain, so i don't want to be the greatest mass murderer since adolph hitler. ok, every single president had that mantra except for biting. jo, i, he's a warmongers, been that way. i'm in the iraq war. is his war as much as anyone else is a 2003 invasion. he store 997 as the head of the senate for religious committee. he said, if we expand nato, it's going to create a hostile reaction from russia and he should be okay with that. now he's got his cell reaction and he happens to be sitting in the white house. the guy is not all there, many of his face it, that's another thing we have to factor in year. it's extremely dangerous to have a man and his mental condition in this situation right now. so again, i'm not that optimistic. i'm saying that the realists have to grant control here and stop this. and i don't know a new credit as far as your question is going to be destroyed, every day is getting destroyed more and more than using the ukraine's and as your guest earlier said, why are the ukranian people waking up realize what ponds they being used as they don't because for them to a local issue, they don't like russia, they think russia is just attacking them and they don't understand that you a political gang going on here a lot of ukrainians. i think so. yes, there are countries being destroy on the altar of american incredible ambition and an ag money. and i think this got to be this turning point where they scored the stops. but how do they climb down from this? this is really where the question lies. you know, joe, have state is in charge. no head of state is in charge of anything. transatlantic lee, not even those that they've deployed like newland or otherwise we really need to get to the bottom of who is actually calling the shots. that's that start with square one. yeah, but i mean, i'll say to all 3 of you and then go to, to jeremy. i think we're in the most dangerous point in this conflict right now because everything the west is done is backfired or failed. it doesn't have the world behind them. jeremy, i'm really worried about a false flag on biochemical. why logical new killer? false lag an event? and that's what i most worried about 40 seconds before we go. go ahead, jeremy. well yeah, i think we've seen plenty of false flies already during this conflict and we've seen you false charles for the fabrication like in boca, i think that's going to continue. and yeah, i mean, there's a precedent with the saudi chemical weapon attack. we could very easily see something like that as a pretext for further escalation. and i think as far as who's writing this, we have to look at the military industrial complex and these, you know, companies that have made huge profits. office like raytheon, you know, they basically control the pentagon with lloyd austin. so i think, you know, he's politicians are mere figureheads and yet by me shifted throughout his career, he was, you know, he was involved. busy in some of the arms agreements, i believe when he was in the back in the eighty's and he had a more diverse wow, you know, we don't, don't forget, jo biden's involved in the destruction of the former yugoslavia. he was, they played a key role. i gentlemen, i gotta jump in here we go. we've run out of time. fascinating. this discussion, i want to thank my guess in tulsa, los angeles, and in said me, and i want to thank my viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time. remember a ah ah ah ah ah ah, with a sure a by judge she took the bottom with mr to as a law. no. on the wall. no. she sequential a to he is new was to the william, which is a capacity of ownership. yet a new would also say i took the decision. ah, your promotional session is a question that helps to do it. i don't think this is selena to play yours show, but she'll mm. wanna schedule. sure so, but our new choice is yours. federal shock, legendary. when you're pregnant with oh, both with shamika, that's i with no leo but he started to study of columbia video.
Related Keywords
Afghanistan , United States , Paris , France General , France , Washington , China , Virginia , Russia , London , City Of , United Kingdom , Ukraine , Germany , Iraq , India , Bretton Woods , Sydney , New South Wales , Australia , Saudi Arabia , Amman , O11 , Jordan , Poland , Turkey , Saudi , Ukrainians , Chinese , Ukrainian , Soviet , German , Russian , Russians , American , Harry Truman , Stepan Bandera , Adolph Hitler , Biden Stange , Seymour Hersh , Lloyd Austin , Peter Labelle , Nick Sonia , Joe Biden , Jo Biden , Peter Lavelle , Newland Lincoln , Los Angeles , Valeria Stewart , Hillary Clinton ,
comparemela.com © 2020. All Rights Reserved.