Transcripts For RT CrossTalk 20220915

To you. Craig and any post conflict, relationship between russia and ukraine, i believe, will be predicated on ukraines recognition of the permanence of russian sovereignty over the crimea and turkey. I will be in a position where if they were to be a guarantor, they would have to certify that crimea is forever russia. This is a political problem for turkey. So like i said, the notion of these guarantees is just ludicrous fancy, not crimea, certainly a huge sticking point. Death of both sides. Im afraid we got to leave the scope. Its a former Us Marine Corps Intelligence Officer. Thank you very much for your time today. There is remy, i say your bang up to date with all the latest from around the world. Do feel free to head over to our web site r t dot com for more stories and in depth analysis. Money is peter scott, so i wont come to the, ill be back again at the top of the hour. Ah, [000 00 00;00] a proud name becomes the advocate and engagement equals the trail. When so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. Ah, ah. Hello and welcome to cross, not where all things are considered. Im peter lavelle, ukraines recent battlefield successes with the support of nato may change the course of the conflict. Russias special military operation launched on february 24th has been slow and methodical. Nonetheless, the kremlin has made it clear it will cheat its security goals. Does that mean an escalation of the conflict with cross sucking the Current Situation in ukraine . Im joined by my guess, scott ritter and dal more. Hes a former Intelligence Officer in United Nations weapons inspectors in washington. We have michael maloof. He is a former Pentagon Security policy analysts. And in london we crossed a drill consulting. He is founder of aka consulting and a Foreign Affairs analyst. Our job in cross roles. In fact, that means you can jump in any time you want. I always appreciate scott, let me go to you 1st here. The title of this program is catalyst. Okay. What do i mean by that . We had these recent successes on the part of the ukrainians in the conflict. We were not expecting that, but then in retrospect may be a lot of people shouldnt be surprised. On the back of it, we had a part of the energy grid in ukraine. Go out, was that a message . We dont know that will continue. We dont know. But over the last week or so, is this a catalyst to go from the special military operation to Something Else . And weve talked about this before. Go ahead scott. No, i, i think youre right. I back in may, i, you know, i was widely chastised for daring to say that a provision of 53000000000. 00 worth of assistance by the United States to ukraine on top of millions of dollars of assistance provided by europe, nato. And the establish what i called strategic. Yeah, that means the opening up of nato facilities in europe to crane cranium forces on the equipment being provided was a game changer. And we saw the game chain. I also said that given this new reality, 200000 men just isnt enough to accomplish the objectives of the special military operation beyond the liberation of the dont boss. Ive always said that that will happen and its going to happen. But denies vacation requires a pressing a military campaign beyond the dont bass requires the destruction of ukrainian military, the destruction of the political by ability of neo nazi Political Parties and elements in ukraine and 200000 men isnt going to do that. 200000 men was insufficient to hold of the territory that russia had withdrawn to after phase one. Your cargo was always problematic again, in may, i pointed out that the russians were unable to stop repeated ukrainian counter offenses. Ukrainians were probing, penetrating, probing, penetrating in the russians, had insufficient forced to do that whenever they re deployed force up to push back the ukrainians because an operational pause elsewhere. Russia needs more men. Thats the end of the story. So i, you know, theres going to have to be a, if russia is going to insist that is going to fulfill all the stated objectives in their series about d not to vacation and demilitarization. And at some point time russians going to change the nature of the game, theyre going to respond to the ukranian nato initiative and put in more resource. Ok. Michael, basically the same question to you. One of the things thats at least 5 come across is that a lot of the equipment now, the Ukranian Army is using is name is provided by nato here. That tells us a number of things the, the ukrainian arsenal is basically been exhausted, destroyed, and now were relying very much though, on nato countries, particularly United States. We had president s and lindsay on cnn admitting without american support. He wouldnt be able to continue his campaign here. So, i mean, this is a game changer. And i have to say to be honest with you, theres been a lot of frustration in the country that i currently live in about. Why isnt the gloves being taken up again, the reason why im calling this program catalysts, because this is a catalyst to step up the game because no one likes a long conflict. Ok . They want resolution. Ok, and if they cant get it, then theyre going to have to figure out Something Else to do. Im being very blunt here. Go ahead, michael. Yeah, i think were going to see an escalation. Its going to be the type of escalation that will be more targeted. The counter offensive by the ukrainians was one that, that was purposeful, brought on by tremendous intelligence assistance and a deceptive. A deception approach that forced a lot of the Russian Troops to go in one direction in order to achieve the car key and to take and to take that area back, which is critical to the ukrainians. And the type of assistance that is current now is not only arms, which its going to require more and then thats going to be questionable as to whether they can ultimately deliver without increasing our own home production capabilities, but also the intelligence the ukrainians. Up until now have been reluctant to share with us its strategies and approaches and our operationally. Consequently, they have reelected, it seems and are using the intelligence that us supplies to mount these counter offenses very effectively. And the way the united, it looks like what the United States is doing is working with a dedicated group of pentagon types and either out of pentagon, central or out of germany. And, and use the series of Fusion Centers which we actually began doing during the bus near war in which you helped the commander in the field with a, an array of data mining. To be able to move troops and, and assess criteria almost instantly and re direct very rapidly and be able to look for critical choke points. And that appears to be what has been coming from the, from the west so far . Well, i dont know. Let me go to you in london. I mean scott has already cited michael is already cited. So why dont we this all said in unison here, this is a nato war against russia. Ok, this is what its gotten down to. And russia has to react in kind, ok, nato is making, allowing this campaign to continue. And we havent seen destruction of command and control centers and ukraine. That needs to be on the agenda here. Essentially, this slow walking is as it worked. Ok, its not going to work and its it gets on to a point where, who is going to be exhausted by this here is very frustrating. Knowing that rush has committed 10 percent of its military to this campaign ad ro. Oh, i agree with my criticism. I agree with you piece about also does this limit to so called limited operation was deemed to fail from the very beginning. If we ought to believe that the United States of the clock collective west was intending to allow russia to, to, to continue with a limited operation in ukraine. Or you must be logical. I mean, obviously the on the go good will of the russian president and hes, you know, adherence to the international law, was deemed or perceiving the worst as a weakness. And obviously, we know that this could be done, but you know, within a few days, i mean the blue screen, i aint the ukraine by and, you know, destroy the regime in ukraine by destroying the governmental and civil infrastructure, which would prevent the west from equipping the Ukrainian Forces, another forces are which are fighting or russians on the ground. Also, i would like to add the fact that this will for the escalade as we all agree, but the father escalation and the continuation of this of this conflict is a bearing, a certain risk of the nuclear exchange. Because of how long the west might be. You know, brass and the report in the hill and magazine recently in the beginning of this month, it was titled why of how the United States is becoming more bronson and its support for the ukraine. I mean, they clearly laid out the plan and all been my understanding. It was the blunder on the, on the, on the, on the kremlin side because the credit of the big begin, it was pretty clear that once the United States and nato will join it by helping the, the, the Ukrainian Government ukraine enforce on the go, which they do it will get to see that they will be perceived as a site to the conflict. But, you know, slowly and surely there were, you know, trying to, they were testing to ground and they were moving further without the, you know, meeting any a, you know, consequences from, from the, from the russian side. And we also have to bear in mind that still a crit, lynn is more interested in, you know, being a real, reliable partner to us by still supplying the energy to, to your, well, i get a get that is regulated, that, that will get to that in the 2nd half of the park real quickly scott, its been explained to me. I dont know if its correct that this offensive that the, the ukrainians are pursuing. Its more, its more like the battle of the bulge and the ukrainians, or the germans. You get my drift, i get your drift. Um i, i disagree. Look, its time distance to say that the nato us ukraine effort was a tremendous success in it is probably more successful than the the russians anticipated the ukrainians. And i agree with you. This is how i describe it. Prior to this offensive of russia was facing issue Ukrainian Army that was equipped and trained by nato. This offenses were fought by a nato army right manned by you, st. Into story. This is a nato army uses. Nato tactics uses nato intelligence, nato commander, control natal logistics. Theres a heavy inflection in the presence of international forces. Thousands of them. And theres advisors at every level attached to the ukrainian staff. This is a nato army and they hit the russians in their weakest part. And look, rushes can have to answer some serious questions. The defense that exists in the car code is non doctrinal. It was ridiculous, it was absurd. And when you go up against a nato army, which is what they did, not a Ukrainian Army and nato army of you are decisively defeated. Now russia chose to trade a to, to trade space or men, et cetera. But if it, if this was going to be the battle of the bulge, then we need pads. 3rd army to come in, he crushed, crushed the ukrainians. Where is the 1st Guard Tank Army . What happened to them . Okay. All right, questions rush love to answer. Thats right. Okay gentlemen im, we would, i, we have to go to a shop break, and after that short break, well continue our discussion on the Current Situation anyway. Same ah, ah, louise hunter, russian state little narrative. Ive stayed on the most landscape div us. Mm hm. The American House house Madison Middle School in the 55. We did. Okay, so mine is 2000 speedy. When else calls with, we will ban in the european union, the kremlin media machine, the state aunt, rush up to date and school r t spoofed neck, given our video agency, roughly all band to on youtube. And pinterest, and push indicative even clifford shelf with a welcome act across sac where all things are considered on payroll. About remind you, were discussing the Current Situation in ukraine. Ah, okay, go to michael in washington since there the, there is a nato war against russia in a collective west um Economic Warfare against russia. I think its time and its, its september middle september hearing in russia winter comes to us 1st. Okay. Its getting a bit cool. Its going to get cooler, and cooler and cooler. I think thats a good time to cut all Energy Supplies from russia to the west. Full stop, michael. I think as a result of this counter offensive, i think russia has learned a lot it, it just as we want to just as the ukrainians want to applaud this initial success of it. It also gives lessons to the other side, and the russians now see a way to adjust as a consequence. And what were going to probably see is a series of events at various levels and on various fronts. Number one is cutting, cutting back on energy completely. Ukraine and that area, as i understand that well be going through an initial rainy season, which will create a lot of mud. And then they have the freeze. And thats going to allow more tactics in the use of artillery tanks and be able to bring on a much larger force as a, as a consequence. Secondly, the ukrainians had an initial success with this counter offensive. But how do they sustain it . Thats going to be a question that the natal people are having to deal with now. And i think this is where the russians can probably score by look hitting the supply lines, hitting, hitting and going much more robust. And their approach hitting those supply lines. And cutting off let electricity and doing Cyber Attacks and just ramp up the Cyber Attacks. And thats going to hurt communications tremendously. And youre going, youre going to see, i think, in the coming weeks and months a, a, a russian counter offensive to the counter counter offensive. Lets put it that way. Well, you know, i, i have to express my impatience with all of this because theres a lot of capacity i have, we seen any strategic, big bombing for example. Not that i want to see that kind of level of destruction. But this conflict has to come to an end, and russia has the means to do it. What is the west going to do . Sanction russia . I mean, its getting a bit boring. Ok. And theres a frustration in the country that i live right now. Its time to wrap this thing up and, and i and, and now say for the 1st time youre, there needs to be regime change in camp. Ok. You cant deal with these people and, and, and continue with constantly this constant slow walking of the conflict achieves nothing for anyone at the end of the day. And theres an enormous amount of suffering on the ground. Go ahead in london. I mean this is, this is completely understandable or you just said, and i agree. I mean, then theres no point in having any discussions with the current regime. And i think that russia somehow, jo ball in 2014, when the washington installed the ration i and the russian government, i mean, theres no point in discussing anything with it. Hes good because hes just a puppet. I mean, hes taking his orders from the washington dc and from london. I mean, now in the United Kingdom we have a least trust would be who, because if Prime Minister and who during the before being elected explicitly said that shes willing to use the nuclear weapons. I mean, how great is, is that . I mean, most of the people were clapping together in the studio and this people are not taking into the account, the consequences of this discovery that language. And indeed, russia has to do something before is too late because youre asking us, i mean, what, what can be done . I mean, im not sure when the washington will accept the defeat of the Ukrainian Government. I mean, we know from the day one were familiar with both of its the explicit, the describe, the u. S. A. Germany, and we know that the u. S. Military Industrial Complex needs to have russia as the enemy, number one. So what else do you know to be discussed . I mean, what is the washer and president what the me put a wanted to be a respectable partner within the work order, but this has failed. I mean, this has failed. Russia will never be accepted as an equal within the current order, which is, you know, crumbling before our eyes, as we, you know, experiencing the rise of breaks and Shanghai Corporation Organization Meeting that i think that will take place later this week. But i think the, this illusions in, in, in, in russia has to be dropped. You know that russia will be accepted in europe or in the broad to west, you know, not scott, scott, you know, in afghanistan, that was, it was always said that, you know, you have the clocks, but we have the time. How would you use that phrase in this Current Situation . Whos got the clock . Whos got the time . Scott . Russias got both. I. I think its time. We got to take a step back for a 2nd and understand that this is, this is a war. Im in war is an extension of politics by other means, which means that by sincerely focusing on the battlefield, were missing the bigger picture. So im going to point out to 2 allies are going to come and get that that are coming to russia site 1st one is general mud. The mud season is coming as a is my colleague mentioned, and with this comes an operational reality. So i dont see russia undertaking a significant counter counter offensive and in the short period of time, thats too risky of it. The best thing where she can do right now is to retake that on bass and theyre going to do that. And i think thats what were going to see for the rest of this military camp any season. Incomes general winner. And this is where it gets interest. Because in a winter isnt about freezing the ground tanks moving in a winter is about russia breaking the will of the west. We support ukraine. This is where the, where all of its chips into crushed the russian economy through sanctions, through denying russia access to International Markets with energy and the west has failed. We never forget that russia is winning on the International Energy market, rushes, winning economically internationally. And the victory is going to be sealed this winter when all of the politicians in europe, who had been clamoring to provide ukraine was support, are going to be swept out of power by red ocean airy movements of angry constituents who are freezing to death. Who are hungry are seeing their economies collapse. And this is the greatest ally. Russia has because im spring when russia is ready to carry out after theyve secured the don bass, rushes ready to move on with regime change. Whatever you want to call demilitarization dina vacation. The geopolitical pitcher will have changed. I dont think youre going to be seen ukraine with so many allies. I think youre going to see europe and native divided, fractured. I think youre going to see the United States with a new political reality after november. And now russia will be better position to act on all the lessons that theyve learned. And i agree. Theyre learning a lot of lessons. They will, they will, they will take the winter time to reorganize, re equip, reassess m spring. And i know you want this over quick. This isnt about the battlefield. This is about geo politics, is about russia. Reposition itself in the world with dinah, with india, with other nations, just about the destruction of american gemini, of a week in the u. S. Dollar. A dominance thats a bigger picture, the rush is playing into. If you dont want to sacrifice that by carrying out a precipitous military action in ukraine at good, per se, well, you cant win without increasing the number of troops your choice of either slow and build up of forces through increase contracting, et cetera, or general mobilization. Itll mobilization is suicide. If russia generally mobilizes their economy will not be as strong as it is right now, and theyre going to lose all the advantages they have. So i just say, look, you train want to battle . Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, were losing the war. Theyre losing the war. Michael, that basically the same question because i mean, it gets out to a point of exhaustion and given how, you know, europeans are unfortunate for the europeans have just forgotten what war is like. You know, the, theyve got become very, very soft here. I mean, they, they like their prosperity and they had prosperity because they had cheap russian energy. Thats no longer the case and theyre going to pay dearly for ending that relationship with russia. Because rash has no reason to go back to it. Plenty happy. You know, the west doesnt want fossil fuels fine, dont sell it to them. Ok. The rest of the world wants to continue building their societies at a sovereign way. Theyll take the energy, i think, to date of year on year rush has made a gas problems made 38 percent more profit a year on year. And thats with all of the sanctions here. So i again, you know, i guess its a war of attrition, but i think scott is right it we have to think in a much broader scale. What that attrition is. Go ahead, michael. Yeah, i would agree with scotts assessment that probably geopolitical aspects and it time is on the brush aside. And i think that the theyre used to use a combination of the elements. Theyre also going to use the fracturing within the nato countries because of the harsh realities that theyre going to have to be facing this winter. And theyre already beginning to squirm and, and scream about it. And the u. S. Is not going to be able to fulfill them and back fill them. And then at the same time, continue on with a, a robust production of any kind to, to resupply last arms, half of which probably arent going to the ukranian forces anyway. Another portion is probably being blown up. So its a question of attrition. And i think if the, with a combination of using a long winter thats expected in the region combined with altering tactics, the rush russians can sit back and just bleed them by. Hey michael, let me get. Give andrea last 30 seconds. Go ahead and london. Whoa, you know, here in the west, the state of rush, i love the euro, but i would say that instead of in the last euro, but it was the world thats i think im going to write that on a posted and put it on my refrigerator. And my wallet, its going to be a good line ill use in the future. Gentlemen, thats all the time we have a lot of think my guess in washington, delmore and in london. And thanks to our viewers for watching us here at our dc you next time, remember across the ah. Ah, a not, not the why you. Why do you easy while furnace says, ah, yeah. Do you say one slide . Yes. South. Yeah. Thrash a south with a new dock, carson or you know, watch done for me at that ill pull up right between the symbol. Yeah. Pull video from sheila kims room. She thought for a yes my thought or jane in that again, do you watch any of my be a lot about it more than just financial hm. With Ukrainian Forces shell, a kindergarten in the done yet republic, reportedly wounding for children, wanting these images are disturbing. While a ukrainian strike kills an entire family, including 2 children acre farm. But even pearson is set to arrive today. It was beckys done for Shanghai Cooperation Organization summit. The meeting is also the 1st overseas trip of the chinese president. Since the pandemic is National Committee of the red cross says the Global Hunger problem predates the ukranian