Transcripts For MSNBCW Weekends With Alex Witt 20191221

Lets get into this here because you were talking about the christian and evangelical support before the end of your show there and you had the Christian Today oped writers writing saying describing trumps behavior as grossly immoral. Yeah. But then you look at the headlines, joy, all the support for this president. Is there any sort of a Straight Line answer as to why ev evangelicals still support this president . If you look at the Public Religion Research numbers, its overwhelming support. Its been between 80 and 90 support among white evangelical christians. Its important to parse it out because nonwhite evangelicals dont have that support for President Trump. When you look at the reason why, it comes down to judges. Youve got a man that does not profess fob a christian. He talks about them and not us when he talks about christians. He doesnt invoke any kind of belief, he doesnt pray for forgiveness and that sort of thing. But hes delivering them the judges and the courts. And for a lot of white evangelical christians going back to roe versus wade and other rulings that prevented Christian Schools from getting tax breaks if they were segregated, a lot of them feel the skrorts been againcourts ha them for generations and they can push back on the social change as they see as negative. Talk about negative. The comments the president made about Debbie Dingells late husband, come on, the trumps mean streak spares no one living or dead. This according to the new york times. It says it sort of speaks to his impulse towards what the time calls nastiness. Yeah. So evangelicals, doesnt that give some of those supporters pause . One would think. There were a few groans in the room when he said it because, by the way, he said it in michigan. First of all and cheers, though. And some cheers. But just as a political matter, this is an enormously popular man, john dingell who passed away just this year. His wife is grieving, suffering her first christmas without her husband. You can see when she is on television shes still shaken by her husbands death. To be so cruel to a woman, a widow, because youre angry about a vote that she made along with 230 people and to be so vicious in a state where hes popular that you need to win. Remember, he barely won michigan, he won it by 10,000 votes. He needs that state. And to alienate, does he not think there will be ads showing this horribly cruel moment . Of course there will. And Lindsey Graham is calling him out. Come on. Hes got to stop. Between that and republicans likening him to jesus as someone who grew up in the church, that is shocking to liken him to being from god or of god or god. I think this is starting to peeling off in the edges and the margins some evangelicals who say this has gone too far. That we shouldnt be worshipping this man just for judges. Lets move to impeachment and listen to what the president responded when queried about all of this by our colleague kristen welker. Yeah. What does it feel like to be the third president in u. S. History to be impeached . Well, i dont feel like im being impeached because its a hoax, its a setup, its a horrible thing they did. Like, what do you make of that . Doesnt feel like hes being impeached . If he doesnt, what does that even say . First of all, it doesnt matter what it feels like, man, youre impeached. Once the house votes, the constitution says youre impeached, its on your record, its done. Right. Theres nothing can he do about that. I think the sense of futility of it that he couldnt stop it and use his wiles and insults and couldnt use twitter and he cant bully Speaker Pelosi the way he bullies republicans. He has koud cowed an entire poll party. This is the Reaganite Party that has been cowed not just by donald trump, but by the kremlin. They have caused republicans to be more pro russia and less sure that russia is an adversary, to think of them as an ally, to use russian help to elect a president , to have many this monarchist view of the presidency, all of this stuff is shocking. And what trump has done to auck ord subordinate these men and women of the Republican Party has been shocking. But impeachment is something he couldnt stop and for all his own power and own sort of monarchial power, he couldnt stop it. Think hes angry. Look at how this is going to be viewed potentially in history. It hasnt gotten to the senate yet. But the fact is impeachment will be forever associated with donald trump. How does history look back on this. Its interesting because with bill clinton impeachment had the asterisk on it because he was so popular. He had 63 to 66 approval. Most of the public saw it as partisan and a silly reason to impeach a president. He lied to federal investigators and republicans would say this was all about lying. But the reasons for which he lied. He lied about a sexual affair and whether or not the kind of sex he had with Monica Lewinsky was sex. Thats gross, most people dont want to think about that so they wrote awe off the impeachment of bill clinton as a partisan interest. Especially when newt grin grip w gingrich was doing the same thing. Nixon didnt even let it get to a full house vote. Theres an argument that you made that Richard Nixon knew what it would do to the country and he rose to the dignity afforded that office and said im not going to divide my country. His ending speech when he resigned was a statesmanlike speech is. Donald trump is more like jackson. It was racial and about race. Donald trump trump is more alon lines. What do you make the nancy pelosi and the strategy to withhold the articles of impeachment from the senate . I think its smart is. Lauren stride made the argument on our show a couple months ago that she might want to consider it. The fact that shes considered it means shes a chess player. She will go down in history as one of the most powerful speakers, same rey burnrayburn she plays this game better than donald trump does. The timing of this, imagine if the senate is in the middle of an impeachment at that point, what does that look like . What would happen with bill clinton. He gave a state of the union in the midst of his impeachment in 1999. What he did was the smart thing to do was he ignored it. He said the state of the union is strong and gave a dignified rank and file normal state of the union. I cant imagine trump doing that. I think hell get up there and complain and do what he always does. Hell go through his bill of particulars how everyone is mean to him and the republicans will applaud and i think most of the country will be sort of shocked and caught off guard. Im going to applaud. Thanks for sticking around. Always great to talk to you. All of you can see her as well are, watch joy on am joy right here on msnbc. Now to the new reaction today from two House Democrats as the standoff between the two chambers of congress intensifies. First in the House Speaker nancy pelosi is holding impeachment in limbo saying that she has anyone to tension of sending articles to the senate until the process is clearly laid out. In the senate, deadlocked between the democratic and Republican Leaders feuding over what they think the trial of donald trump should look like. Nancy is not fearful of this process. She is fearful of some of the things thats come from the lips of Mitch Mcconnell when he admitted very, very clear that he is not interested in having a fair trial. Hes interested in rigging a system. Its going to be important if the president wants to get this behind him, he needs to tell Mitch Mcconnell to sit down with Chuck Schumer and they need to Work Together on whats fair so the process will be transparent and so the American Public will feel well served throughout this entire process. This is Speaker Pelosi less than 48 hours after she gaveled in the votes to impeach the president now inviting him, as we mentioned, to deliver the state of Union Address in early february. Meanwhile, the president in maralago that the hour for the holiday break after signing a 1. 4 trillion spending package overnight averting a government shutdown. Lets go to hans nichols traveling with the president in west balm beach. I can guarantee its warmer where you are than it is here. Youve got congress back in session not until january 7th. Is there a sense that this impeachment battle is percolating . Do you make any sense of that . Reporter well, the president didnt directly address it last night, and that, alex, is something different. Usually the president will try to find a way, especially in front of what seems to be a friendly eyes. Now last night it was an official military audience, but he didnt directly engage on the impeachment subject matter. What he did was a victory lap on the pentagon defense spending. There are two spending bills that the president signed. He did the one for the overall government. He did that one up in the air on air force one without much fanfare. And the other one he did in front of all those troops in joint base andrews clearly wanting to foot stomp and celebrate both the launch of the space force but what he says is a lot of funding and the numbers bear this out, 738 billion for next year for the defense department. Alex. Okay. Look, hans, the president used to talk a lot about calling witnesses. Is he coming around at all to Mitch Mcconnells strategy of a speedy trial and acquittal . Reporter so the last official word we have on this is the president in the oval late last week or this week i should say, where he said he agrees with Mitch Mcconnell, right . And Mitch Mcconnell has always been on the short trial strategy, on the short trial camp. Now, there is some reporting out there, not confirmed by nbc news, but the president still likes the idea of having a lot of witnesses, having having a big trial for complete and total exoneration. We dont know where the president ultimately is going to come down on this. We do know that when hes in maralago he tends to reach out and solicit a lot of opinions from a lot of friends. And everyone has a little bit of advice to give the president. So monitor his twitter feed. He has something an event here at 5 00 p. M. Where he will be talking to a friendly audience pay the group of yuck conservatives gathered around here, the president put it on his schedule. Well see if he uses that opportunity to frame the impeachment debate Going Forward really for the next couple days. Alex. You mentioned the 1 pount 4 trillion spending bill that secures the government being funded through september of next year. Can you tell me all thats in it . Not all but some of the highlights . Reporter a lot of planes, a lot of tanks. Theres 22 billion additional defense spending. Theres money for opioid abuse, also bunch of other pots of money. Look, the president and the paid family leave. The president , when youre working with the democratic congress, ultimately they got to a deal and this was steve manu chens deal that he cut. Its easy to get to a top line deal if both sides are spending a lot. The real explainers are the deficit hawks. Those that worry about the side of the debt and worry about detectives to gdp ratios and servicing that debt. But when you keep spending like this, you can see how the president got to yes with Speaker Pelosi because he gave in on 12 weeks paid Maternity Leave as well, and he gave and he gave in on some other issues. But he did get a lot of spending for a defense. 22 billion over last year, which was not a small year. I think the First Defense budget that the president had was around 703 billion, and now were at 738. So this is year on year they are spending a lot. President mentioned aircraft carriers, submarines, a whole host cruisers. A whole host of new Weapons Systems for the pentagon. And then theres that space force but well save this conversation for another time. Thank you so much from West Palm Beach florida. Ivanka trump on her fathers mood after impeachment. Plus the surprising argument the white house is considering and whether its a gift for the president. Ring and whether its a gift for the president. 1 in 5 people you meet wear dentures. Yeah. That many but right now, is not the time to talk about it. So when youre ready, search my denture care. Poligrip and polident. Fixed. Fresh. And just between us. Creais back at red lobster. Ast with new creations to choose from; like rich, butterpoached Maine Lobster and crispy crabstuffed shrimp rangoon. How will you pick just 4 of 10 . It wont be easy. Better hurry in. An update now on a controversy at last weekends army navy game. They say cadets and midshipman were not flashing a racist hand symbol that looks like something done by white supremacists. They were playing a game. They say theyre disappointed with those cadets and they are being disciplined for their actions. Back to politics. New today first daughter white house Senior Adviser ivanka trump talking about the president s move after that historic Impeachment Vote. Hes energized, as are 63 million plus voters who elected him to office. This is historic, as you note, in many ways. Including the fact that it is the first purely partisan impeachment. There can be anger, anger at the opportunity cost to the america americans who were all here serving and what could have gotten done. Angry at the waste of time. Angry at the collateral damage. Angry but its still energizing. Joining me now, the reporter from mother jones and john harwood. Welcome to you both. John, im curious you reaction to what ivanka had to say about that. It seems like shes putting this in a perfectly positive spin. Ivankas comments are ridiculous on a number of levels. First of all, its not energizing for the president. The president s clearly upset and agitated about whats happened to him. Second, the idea that impeachment has somehow prevented him from doing the work of the American People is also ridiculous. The president is somebody whos made pretty clear that hes not concerned or animated about substantive issues, hes concerned about things that gratify himself and that cast him in a goo goode light ad lig him in certain ways. The idea that ivanka is asserting that this is a president whos faithfully serving the American People and is energized to so even more because hes now been impeached, it doesnt pass the laugh test. But lets give ivanka the benefit of the doubt and if it is energizing this president , what would be fueling it . Would it be the unwavering support of republicans . Would it be the split pretty even poll numbers . What do you think . Look, think the way that the president honestly appears energized, to me, is through anger. I think that, you know, the more, you know, he brushes off impeachment and den greats. Mo denigrates it, the more its getting under his skin. Theres an easy way to look at this. His twitter feet, he started going off deb dingell in michigan and her deceased husband in the is not the tweets and the talk of someone whos energized to, you know, move forward on big policy issues. This is someone whos getting petty and nasty because they feel like theyre under a lot of scrutiny, which they are. So the impeachment, it appears to be something of a stalemate right now, both sides absolutely dug into their positions. But are we any closer to getting answers about the timing and the big picture scope of the Senate Proceedings . I havent seen anything clear on that, to be honest. But i do expect that it will move. I think were sort of in this weird gray area where people are trying to hold out their positions and thats causing a lot of confusion. You know, theres this sort of talk, which i honestly think is not going to go anywhere about, you know, withholding the articles and not sending them over. I would be really surprised if that held up for much longer at all. Obviously were in the middle of the holidays, so give a few days there. But it does not make sense strategically for democrats to hold on to those, you know, that gives a lot of ammunition to republicans to say what theyre saying, things like these, you know, that democrats are too embarrassed to send these over, they cant defend them, things like that. Those are strong talking points. So i do expect the stalemate to eventually break in the coming days or at least weaken and see those move over to the senate and see a trial in january. But in the meantime, who does have more to gain or lose from this delay, john . I think democrats probably have a little bit to gain. I disagree with pema to say the case is weak. I think the case is very strong. But this is not going to be a Long Term Strategy for democrats. First of all, withholding it further ath stat further ath tats President Trump becau ago tats president tru agitates President Trump. He will not get a favorable vote. Think democrats are trying extend the time that the president is stewing over this. And, two, see if they can extract a little more favorable conditions from republicans in terms of how the trial is going to be conducted and how long it takes. Nancy pelosi wants this to have the maximum impact on the American People and a quick vote to acquit the president doesnt do that. But i think it looks too cute for democrats if they if they say, oh, well were never going to transmit those articles and were just going to withhold them. It looks like theyre playing games. And i think that is what would ultimately be the strongest talking point for republicans and i think its why nancy pelosi will not indefinitely withhold them. Im going to ask our legal team whether or not they could constitutionally do that. I could get your reaction to this new poll, it shows the u. S. Economy earned its highest rating, set of 6 of economics in the u. S. Today is very good. That is up from last year, the uptick from 67 . First off, your reaction to the numbers and, secondly, how much of a bomb is this with the economy when it comes to voting . Regardless of the president s what some might classify as sprawling misconduct. Well, first of all there are it is striking that those numbers are as positive as they are, especially since Economic Growth in 2019 is going to turn out to have been slower than in 2018. It will be slower in 2020 than it is in 2019. So its striking numbers, maybe some of that reflects the simply the durability of this economic recovery and some of it reflects the fact that weve now called a pause, the president s called a pause in the trade war. Obviously it is good for any incumbent president to have a stronger economy rather than a weaker one when he or she runs for reelection. However, are the economy is not the hinge point of our politics right now. Hinge point of our politics is a culture war and that involves race, gender, religion, and all those sorts of things. And thats what the president is appealing to, the culture war is the foundation of his political appeal and Strong Economy makes that case easier to prosecute but its not determinative. Quickly to you, pema, does this give democrats something to worry about, the Strong Economy . Yeah, i think that it is a little bit, you know, i think in past elections we have seen the economy play a really big role in deciding who wins an election. I think we saw latest democratic debate this week and i think you saw the response to those strong numbers in a way that i think is pretty effective, which is to say, sure, gdp is good, sure the, you know, the numbers if youre wealthy investor in wall street are good. But what about everyday people . How do they feel . Do they think the economy is working for them . When you talk to democratic polsters, those are the numbers theyre polling out. Those numbers are a lot weaker. Did the tax cuts help you . Is this economy working for you, the average american . And so i think thats where youre going to see the democrats push back on this economic narrative. No question. The question i think a lot of people will be asking themselves over this next year. Happy holidays to you both. As Elizabeth Warren holds a town hall in iowa this hour, surprise poll is suggest how the Democratic Front runners might fair against donald trump. A visit to michigan next. Ir ag. A visit to michigan next. As a cio, you want to move your business forward. But when your team is always dealing with device setups, app updates, and support calls. You can never seem to get anywhere. Thats why Dell Technologies created unified workspace, powered by vmware. A revolutionary solution that lets you deploy, manage, support and secure all your devices from the cloud. So you can stop going in circles, and start moving forward. The impeachment trial in the senate in limbo this weekend as House Speaker nancy pelosi is withholding the articles in an attempt to negotiate the terms of the senate trial, including the ability to call witnesses. In order to move forward with the next steps, pelosi has to hand over the articles and name the impeachment managers who will make the case in the senate. We cannot name managers until we see what the process is on the senate side. So far we havent seen anything that looks fair to us. I admit, im not sure what leverage there is in refraining from sending us something we do not want. Michigan congressman is joining me right now, hes the chief deputy whip of the house caucus. Thanks for joining me. Can you tell us what nancy pelosi wants to get out of withholding the impeachment articles and do you think this it is an effective strategy to get there and who do you think will blink first . Well, first of all, what she needs and what we all need, not just the house but the country, is some clarity as to how senator mcconnell intends to conduct this trial. He has been quite candid that he is not unbiased, that he has a bias in this case, and that causes additional concern that he would, perhaps, simply run through an acquittal without taking any evidence, without hearing testimony, without even examining any of the constitutional questions. So there is we have a right to know. So there is some clarity, basically, he wants zero witnesses, as opposed to the president who wants to call witnesses. For what purpose i guess remains questionable, whether it be effective for him or whether it would just be a circus. But do you think this is effective for nancy pelosi . I do. I think anyone who underestimates Nancy Pelosis ability to navigate a difficult political situation hasnt been paying much attention. Shes been absolutely masterful in this process, this is just i think another example of that. She knows that we have to get clarity from senator mcconnell, one of the ways to do that is to put some pressure look, senator mcconnells comments have been kind of preposterous in the wake of all of this. Were not afraid at all to take these facts to trial. We just want to make sure that the facts themselves are placed in evidence. And theres no indication right now that hes going to do anything other than to gavel in, move for acquit will and motal thats not acceptable. Thats not what the president wants. We may disagree on how the public and the senate will interpret the facts. But i think what the president seems to want is i trial tha tr examines the facts and has witnesses. I think that would be good for the country in order for to us have the clarity from this. Having a trial thats not a joke is really important. And right now Mitch Mcconnell seems to want to just have a sham trial and the speaker does not. And i dont think the country does either. Is there way that you think republicans can gain the upper hand by having these articles withheld . I dont know that the republicans or the Democrats Gain an upper hand. I think we have to threat play out. Let it play out. I think theres been an overinterpretation of how this is working. We impeach the president of the United States. The idea that he hasnt been impeached say preposterous negotiation. We are now awaiting clarity from the senate so we can prepare the case that the house will present. What senator mcconnell either is ignoring or is trying to hide is we have to have a idea of how this case will be structured so we can prepare managers and prepare a case thats going to be put forward. We cant do that nel provides so until he provides some clarity. I think hell have to relent. I think the point is that he has to tell the American People how he intends do this job. So far, it doesnt seem like hes taking it very seriously. And he should. Do democrats have any idea of which, if any, Senate Republicans might cross the line in favor of impeachment . Yeah, i think its hard to get ahead of that. I think a lot of this does have to do with how the case is presented. But i do think that there are senators, republican senators, that are going to have the same sort of thoughts that many of us have had. And thats the question how will history judge us in this moment . Specifically how will our grandchildren judge us . The case is compelling. Anyone who says its not just is trying to rationalize the president s behavior. The case is compelling. The president has operated well outside his authority, has abused his power. And the obstruction case is really a strong one. Its the president himself who has ordered his subordinates to ignore subpoenas. Thats thats as clear as it can be. And so i think these senators are going to have to think not only about the long term history, the legacy that they leave, but the nearterm history. Do they want to create a precedent that says that its okay for a president of the United States to completely ignore legitimate requests for information, to completely ignore subpoenas from congress and get away with it . If they believe that thats okay, that thats okay not for judge this president , but for any future president , then, you know, think theyre going to have some real explaining to do. I dont think many of them want to make that case. I dont think many of them want to defend that position. Congressman, i want to take a look at a new poll in michigan in which it shows the president is ahead by an average of 6 percentage points. Its hypothetical matchups there. Do you think impeachment is actually helping the president s Reelection Campaign and, if so, will it stand the next of time over the next 10 1 2 months until voters go to the polls . I think the difficulty with polling right now is you have i dont know how many a dozen candidates that are legitimate kan candidates on the democratic cite sid side. Its hard to have a race when democrats have choices to make. Think its early. I think this will be close in michigan. Even though we know the president won in 2016, he won by 10,704 votes. Its going to be razor thin, it always is going back to the 80s. Michigan has always been a close race, a close state. But i think ultimately people are going to judge this president based on the totality of his record against a single candidate, not the hopes and wishes of who we might have, but a single candidate. I think it will be close. I think ultimately it will be determined by those people who are in the middle of the spectrum, not on the left or the right who are going to measure this president based on what hes done. Fact that he came into michigan and in a crass and crude and i think despicable way insalulted ledge and in our state, john dingell, i dont think this plays well for people who might be conservative but dont want to see this crass and frankly ignorant president continue to behave in a way thats embarrassing to our country. Thank you so much for your time. Happy holidays. Have a good one. Thanks, alex, you too. Thank you. Coming up next, the christianity today call for President Trumps removal from office. Im going to talk to one evangelical leader who says that call was out of line. Plus, what would it take for the majority of evangelicals to abandon the president . A lot of my conservative friends continue to support him for those reasons saying we dont like his behavior, we dont like his morals, but hes doing these good things. Theyre doing the balancing thing. And its my judgment in the last couple weeks that that balancing no longer works. Balancing no longer works. So chantix can help you quit slow turkey. Along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. With chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting so when the day arrives, youll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. When you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. Stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or lifethreatening allergic and skin reactions. Decrease alcohol use. Use caution driving or operating machinery. 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Here were going to go out in the world and tell people they should support the pro life cause because its the righteous and moral and good thing to do and at the same time its like were blinking or looking the other way when our president is doing things that are not merely unko unconstitutional but blatantly immoral. How can we have credibility on the issues we find so important . Hes defending his view that President Trump should be removed from office. Shortly after his editorial was posted, the president s more prominent evangelical allies quickly closed ranks loudly condemning that editorial. Joining me right now, president and ceo of the family leader, thats a Christian Conservative organization. Bob, welcome to you, sir. Lets get right to what mark galley said. In good conscious he feels that his president has abandoned principles that he holds deer and he believes evangelical christians should hold dear. Do you understand why he feels that way . I think he offers a false dichotomy. Its one that americans wrestle with too often. You have to be in the pro trump ditch or the antitrump ditch. We believe theres a better path. Thats to look higher and think bigger even than President Trump. And so when he does things that are good, were fine to cheer him on and to celebrate and thank him for doing things that are good. But if he goes outside the bounds, ive been very consistent of holding him to account or being a voice of accountability when he does that. I think for christians, people of faith, we can walk and chew gum at the same time and it allows to us preserve our testimony. But at the ballot box, sir, i mean, you talk about the pro trump camp and the antitrump, i believe you called them ditches, but what would you do at the ballot box . Would you hold him accountable there . Well, you have choices at that point. Because, yes, we believe character matters, we believe statesmanship matters, but we also believe policy matters. And so, yeah, we want to have a Christian States maman or perso that represents well, but we want to advance righteous policy at the same tighme. Were looking at someone who would move the embassy to jerusalem, who would preserve religious liberty, put isis on the run, have a soaring economy. Theres a lot of things there, but it doesnt have to be an either or, it can be a yes and. So thats what we do, thats how we address the president. So theres a lot of yes and here. Are you suggesting that policy for evangelicals outweighs character . Well, i think what youre seeing across america is when you take a look at options, im here in iowa and we have all kinds of candidates crisscrossing our state and theyre basically campaigning on infantaside, socialism, things that arent american foundation. Thats why in michigan where now trump leads all the candidates by six percentage points. People are seeing at the end of the day youre going to have two very flawed individuals, President Trump and whoever the democrat happens to be with two completely different visions for america. And i think its what drives a lot of people, theyre interested in what is the vision for america, whats the policy for america moving forward . Wed love to have, as i said before, a statesmanship and the executive on the policy. But thats where it comes down to choices. Sometimes choices are hard, but we still have to choose. Is there a democrat im not asking for you personally, sir, is but there a democrat that you hear buzz about within the evangelical community that you operate who is getting some traction . You know, we just dont see that. Matter of fact, i invited the top seven democrats to our annual leadership summit four years ago, i believe we had ten republican candidates show up and it was a oneonone interview so we can basically discuss their world view and how that would impact their policy. We invited the seven top democrat candidates and all of them turned us down about coming to the leadership summit. And the signal that sends to us is that not only may they not be in favor of our policies, but they really dont even want to hear from us. That becomes an issue. So some people say how could you vote for President Trump, President Trump will at least listen to us and he will act on the policy. On the other side we dont even get people to say that they would listen to us. Well, maybe that will change in the next 10 1 2 months before election day. Let me talk about here one georgia congressman who framed his support for President Trump during the impeachment hearings this week. Lets take a listen to him. Pontius pilate afforded more rights to jesus than the democrats have afforded this president and this process. With regard to that comparison, was that appropriate . Well, no. I dont believe those type of things are appropriate. I think what it does, it just confuses people all the more. I think what it is, is to say the president does deserve to phase haye face his accuser. He does deserve to have a trial before hes convicted by the media or anybody else. And america, even if i were to get a parking ticket or some other violation, i have the opportunity to represent my side before they determine me guilty. And so thats what i think it is even with the christianity today. Weve rushed to a judgment, weve forced america into one of two ditches, which seems to be the popular thing to do today. Youre either all in or youre all against President Trump. Thats why i believe we can think bigger and we can look higher even than the president and we can expect more. What would it take, sir, for evangelical christians to break with the president . Is there a line that were he to cross it they would withdraw support . And shouldnt the president elevate the conversation and not send it into this ditch that youre describing . Well, sure. And we encourage the president to elevate the conversation all the time. What would it take . Thats a hypothetical for to say you would lose evangelical support. The big thing and you know this in america, we have the greatest system on earth but it does force choices. What choices do we have . So what would that hypothetical line be . Im not sure what it would be. But im sure there are lines that wed say, you know, thats just it, we cant go there anymore. So you say that the president has listened to you. Regardless of what actually happens, hes listened to you. You just said that youve asked him to elevate the conversation. Have you seen any effect of those comments and the discussions youve had, has the president elevated the conversation . Particularly when you think back about the conversation with john dingell and someone who may be looking up from he was implying hell. Sure. And i think, you know, theres a good theres a good example with john dingell. Weve been vocal about it, others have been vocal about it, Lindsey Graham have been vocal about it of saying thats not appropriate. Thas th that doesnt bring anybody to a higher ground. The other thing you need to do, when you do elect a president , its not just electing a president , whether it be donald trump or hillary clinton, its who do they place around them . People like mike pence or mike pompeo or rick perry or carson or Kellyanne Conway or sarah sanders, there becomes a team that comes around that president as well. So we also take a look at what team will be around that person. I can tell you right now from the faith console or the others that hes placed rey round haro is getting good counsel. Thank you for the conversation. I appreciate it. Marry christmas and happy holidays. Good bless. My panel responds to this conversation weve just had. Also jeff flake calling on senators to put country over party, but will they listen . Thats next. Country over rtpay, but will they listen . Thats next. Work so hard give it everything you got strength of a lioness tough as a knot rocking the stage and we never gonna stop all strength, no sweat. Just in case you forgot all strength. No sweat secret. All strength. No sweat. Creais back at red lobster. Ast with new creations to choose from; like rich, butterpoached Maine Lobster and crispy crabstuffed shrimp rangoon. How will you pick just 4 of 10 . It wont be easy. Better hurry in. A bit more now on christianity today calling for the removal of the president in that oped in a decision now. We have Danielle Moody mills and cohost of a podcast. And rick tyler, msnbc political analyst joining me. Danielle, well go to you first on your reaction to what we just heard there from bob vander plaats, and also the question when i asked him if there was a democrat that they could potentially get behind, if theres any scuttlebutt about that, people talking about a democrat. He said heres the deal, weve asked the top seven democrats to come speak to us and theyve all declined is. That on the democrats . Should they be reaching out to evangelicals too . Honestly i dont see the point to reaching out to evangelicals because they only care about what thing, which is stopping a woman from being able to have a bodily autonomy. Thats what they care about. They dont care that the president of the United States is a racist. They dont care that hes a zina phobe. They dont kbcare about the this that hes said about grabbing women. We just care about roe v wade get reverse dollars. Theres no reason to sit down with evangelicals about anything. And the question that you ask, alex, with regard so to is there anything that the president could do that he would lose such evangelicals from and there is nothing. Theres nothing that he could do, frankly, and obviously, that they would then turn their backs on him. As long as they can reverse roe v. Wade, theyre okay. Rick, i know that he originally backed ted cruz in the 2016 election. You worked on cruz payne campaign. Do you know him and what do you make of his comments ive kno . Ive known him for ten years. We rode in his pickup truck from one end of iowa to the other. I know him very well. Hes an honorable man and honest man. Im glad to hear him say he calls out the president when the president misbehaves. Unfortunately the rest of us dont hear that. Look, ill call. Political evangelical movement, because evangelicals are a very large group and many of them are lapsed evangelicals, the same way you have lapsed catholics for donald trump. Im not sure theyre kaeni agre i have to disagree, ive been to a lot of bobs events and they do listen and theyre very respectful and they want to hear other points of view. They may not agree with them, but theres a lot of things, the Pro Life Movement and the pro or let me just be respectful, the pro choice movement, together can do more to reduce the number of abortions. And i dont know anybody who wants more abortions, everybody wants less abortions. So if thats the goal of both sides, theres a lot of Common Ground there. Theres a lot of Common Ground on a lot of issues. And we cant be, as bob described them as ditches, but we cant be on both sides. We cant just take a side. We have to the whole american ill tell you were on the press. I precipice here. Im saying lets find out what we agree on and Work Together on those issues and see what we can get. Let me ask you about the Campaign Rally on wednesday when the president said this about the late congressman john dingell. For anyone whos not heard it. Here it is. Debbie dingell, thats a real beauty. So she calls me up like eight months ago. Her husband was there a long time. But i didnt give him the b treatment. I didnt give him the c or the dmt d. I could have. I gave him the aplus treatment. They she calls me up, its the nicing inoffest thing thats happened. John wore so thrilled. Hes looking down, he would be so thrilled. Thank you so much, sir. I said, thats okay, dont worry about it. Maybe hes looking up, i dont know. [ laughter ] i mean, danielle, when it comes to this president , is this is. Bottom for his supporters, do you think . We heard all the laughter there, which i dont know how to categorize that. There is no bottom for them. Hes talking ill of a man that served his country, who just recently passed. This is Debbie Dingells first christmas without her husband and this is what the president of the United States is doing at a rally . And you hear the people laughing. I just it makes it really hurts my heart, honestly, to think that this is where the Republican Party is and this is what theyre proud of. And frankly this is the cross that theyre willing to die on with this president who is clearly immoral and just has no dignity whatsoever and no respect for anyone. You hear, rick, the president talking like that, calling Debbie Dingell a real beauty. Hearing the audience laugh. Why is the allegiance to this president so strong . Or, undying loyalty . Why so strong . Its really sort of unimaginable. I mean, that conversation would have been held closely and in confidence and in confidential and the idea that he would go on National Television in a rally and describe that conversation and then the contents of what he just said, ive just run out of words to describe the president. Ive said them all and they seem meaningless now, despicable, disgusting, classless, its all of those things. Do you think that some republicans were angry about those comments and they should be angry about them . They should be angry and outraged about them. But lets separate this out for a bit, because that behavior is immoral and disgusting and its not worthy of a leader. Its not impeachable. But what President Trump did do was impeachable and hes been impeached for it. And so we can say, like bob said, we can have choices, but this choice sis a bad choice an i hope we can recover from it. Nicks telling me in my ear i have to go because its late. Happy holidays, guys. The ups and downs of 2019. Who took some hits and whos in the best position going into 2020 . Farce the best position going into 2020 farc do your asthma symptoms ever hold you back . About 50 of people with severe asthma have too many cells called eosinophils in their lungs. Eosinophils are a key cause of severe asthma. Fasenra is designed to target and remove these cells. Fasenra is an addon injection for people 12 and up with asthma driven by eosinophils. Fasenra is not a rescue medicine or for other eosinophilic conditions. Fasenra is proven to help prevent severe asthma attacks, improve breathing, and can lower oral steroid use. Fasenra may cause allergic reactions. Get help right away if you have swelling of your face, mouth, and tongue, or trouble breathing. Dont stop your asthma treatments unless your doctor tells you to. Tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection or your asthma worsens. Headache and sore throat may occur. Havent you missed enough . Ask an asthma specialist about fasenra. If you cant afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. Creais back at red lobster. Ast with new creations to choose from; like rich, butterpoached Maine Lobster and crispy crabstuffed shrimp rangoon. How will you pick just 4 of 10 . It wont be easy. Better hurry in. Fred would do anything for his daughter get in fred even if it means being the back half of a unicorn. Fear not fred the front half washed his shirt with gain detergent. Thats the scent that puts the giddy in giddy up ahhh. The irresistible scent of gain. For a scent with even more giddy up, try gain scent blast in detergent, fabric softener and scent beads. [ drathis holiday. Ahhhhh ahhhhh a distant friend returns. Elliott. You came back and while lots of things have changed. Wooooah woah its called the internet. Some things havent. Get ready for a reunion 3 million light years in the making. Woohoo yeah good day, everyone, from msnbc headquarters here in new york, welcome to weekends with alex witt. We begin in washington and the escalating tensions surrounding the articles of impeachment. Democrats and nancy pelosi using a stall tactic holding the articles back from the senate. Meanwhile, looking for a predetermined outcome but nonetheless he is calling foul with new today democrats with blunted defense of the House Speaker and her approach. Nancy is not fearful of this process. She is fearful of some of the things thats come from the lips of Mitch Mcconnell when he admitted very, very clear that hes not interested in having a fair trial, hes interested in rigging a system. She has been so skillful over the last few weeks and months. She is at the absolute top of her game. I think her skillfulness level is that, quite frankly, of Lyndon Johnson or Franklin Roosevelt in their prime. To watch this impeachment happen and her completely take away the idea that we were obsessed with impeachment because we passed the trade deal, we passed an appropriations bill, both of those were bipartisan, kudos to her because shes done a phenomenal job. Its going to be important if the president wants to get this behind him, he needs to tell Mitch Mcconnell to sit down with Chuck Schumer and they need to Work Together on whats fair so the process will be transparent and so the American Public will feel well served throughout this entire process. From the impeachment to the fight for 2020, were covering it for you right now with the team of reporters and analysts. Lets go first to hans nichols. Hans is following the president in florida for the holidays. Theres vaughn hillyard. You stand by, my friend. Hans, theres new insight into the president s mood following the historical Impeachment Vote. Whats the latest on that . Reporter we saw the president trying to focus on the defense spending bill. He signed the overall spending bill on air force one with little fanfare. But its clear that he wants to focus the countrys attention on what hes doing for the military, draping himself yesterday, flanked by soldiers, clearly a message that he wanted to drive. Interestingly, the president didnt mention impeachment on camera last night. Now later on on twitter he got back into his twitter mode and he said that this is the democrats disgrace and continuing to put forth this line that he thinks this is a political winner for the Republican Party. And when you look at the fundraising thats happened at least the month of november where the parties are to date, republicans have an advantage on fund raising. Theres some evidence out there that this is motivating Republican Voters or at least republican donors. Alex. Okay. Hans nichols, thank you so much from West Palm Beach. Well see you again next hour. Meantime, janing me, congressional reporting at politico. Welcome to you. Weve been talking about this impasse running the senate trial proceedings, that includes nancy pelosi still so far refusing to send the articles of impeachment over to the senate. I know that you sat down with her for an interview this week where she downplayed this move. What did she say . So what the speaker has said that is that shes not planning to hold on to these articles for an extended period of time. What shes doing is waiting to see exactly what process the senate is going to be laying out here. This is her final power move. Shes been carefully chorio graphing th choreographying this and take each careful measured step in this march towards impeachment. Now pelosi is saying were taking the one last piece of lever ram we ha leverage we have and thats transmipting it to t transmitting it to the senate. Did she give you a sense of what she wants to see happen, what she finds acceptable, and if she doesnt reach that ba ram m der ro ber rom ter, what would she do . Thats been a struggle on everyone on capitol hill trying to read her mood and figure out whats going on. When she made this decision thursday night wednesday night after the house passed impeachment, reporters were shocked. She completely stunned capitol hill with this move. And even 24 hours later at her press conference she would not say exactly what constitutes a fair trial. So this is a huge mystery to House Democrats who also didnt really know that she was going to be doing this. But even to her colleagues over in the senate who are looking to make sure they have a fair process over there, its were kind of waiting to see what shakes out here. This is this is another move where pelosi has not shes playing the cards close to her chest. Shes not disclosing exactly what her strategy is, but ive been covering her for a long time and we know that she has a strategy here. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Can you give me a sense of what this week amounted to for nancy pelosi and her caucus . I mean, this is a legacy defining moment for pelosi. She wants to be known for the Affordable Care act. She wants to be known for the legislative muscling that she did through president obamas entire tenure. She wants to be known as the strategic whip counter, arm twister that she has demonstrated that she is. But, instead, now her legacy is en2009ed with President Trumps. Every viral moment that shes had this year, whether its strolling out of the oval office with the sunglasses and the jacket or the photo that went viral of her finger wagging at trump in the middle of this meeting, i mean, every part of her most powerful moments this year have been wrapped in with trump. That includes the night of impeachment when there was a member of her caucus who appeared to shout yay celebrating after the vote and she stared them down and made this gesture that, again, another viral moment. Yeah. And shes become decades into her political career, an icon on the left. Its in part because she has gone after trump so aggressively, not showing any daylight between her party and the republicans here, they just took such a strong stance here. So we just have seen, you know, this is, as i said before, this is her power move. This is her trying to control the process and the one final step that she has before it goes over to the senate and its out of her hands. And then thats it, i mean, the house is done with impeachment. Yeah. Can you give me a sense of the scene on february 4th with the president having accepted her offer to deliver the state of the union . He said yes and look at the timing of that. The senate could be in the middle of an impeachment trial. Right. Its going to be an extraordinary moment. The president will be getting up speaking to the entire congress. Hes going to be speaking to his prosecutors, hes going to be speaking to his jury. This could be happening while the senate trial is still going on. Which i think is likely now that weve had this slight delay here. So its just going to be an absolutely remarkable moment. I dont think theres going to be a lot of legislative happening in the house in february. I think 2020 president ial campaign is going to be essentially consuming all of the oxygen in washington and beyond. So i think this is going to be a very impeachmentfocused speech. Im sure his advisers would like him to focus on infrastructure, focus on laying out some additional policy goals for 2020. So it will depend on which trump shows up at the capital that day. But i think well hear a lot from him just trying to give his own defense as the senate is making you know, hearing the case from the house prosecutors at the time. Thank you for that. Lets get to the other big headline were following this hour, the 2020 democrats out on the campaign trail today as the first vote in the primary season now just 44 days away with the candidates focusing their energy in the early primary states. Rece recent entry Deval Patrick is campaigning. Many candidates like Elizabeth Warren are in iowa, the senators currently holding a town hall in north liberty, iowa. And about 90 minutes to the south, former Vice President joe biden is talking to the voters. Senator cory booker is in sioux center, iowa, make the first of three Campaign Appearances today in the hawkeye state. Amy klobuchar making her way through three cities today as well. Certainly the candidate out in force. Its the first weekend after the historic Impeachment Vote in the house. Joining me now, alley vitaly in iowa and vaughn hillyard. Well go ladies first and begin with you, ali. I know youre following the campaign. Theres a town hall today, she will have a challenge campaigning and then balancing time for an impeachment trial in the senate. I mean, how is impeachment affecting 2020 . Well, alex, you mentioned that balancing act and thats going to be the reality here. I know that impeachment has sort of loomed over this race thus far, but now you have five senators who are still running for president who are going to have to physically juggle between being in early states to meet with voters and make their pitch but then also being in washington do their day jobs. And of course that just shifts the focus, because out here on the campaign trail these candidates across the board arent running on impeachment. Even tom steyer who launched need to impeach a few years ago, thats not his central messaging point. Instead, the eye out here, the i word out here on the campaign trail isnt impeachment, its the issues. Listen to how Elizabeth Warren is turning things back to her central messaging point here today. Whatever issue brought you here today, gun safety, right . The cost of prescription drugs, climate, whatever issue gets you up in the morning, if there is a decision to be made in washington, i guarantee its been influenced by money. And, alex, we say this a lot but i think its worth reminding in a dozen or so questions that we just heard Elizabeth Warren take here in iowa from voters, none of them were about impeachment. Thats not to say that trump is not coming up, though. Instead, its questions about the concern over the way in which hes changed things in washington and changed politics across the board. There was a lot of concern about the way that he attacks and maligns people. And i know that were used to that from him, but i was really interested in one voter here actually pointing out that the attack he made against Debbie Dingell and her late husband, voters here really responding to that in a way that i know were used to the president attacking people, but it took me by surprise that thats something that voters koh would specifically voice here to senator warren on stage as they were asking her questions. It was pretty appalling. I think a lot of country is stunned by it. Thank you so much from north liberty, iowa. Lets go to you have vaughn. Youre following Pete Buttigieg. Youre in las vegas today. It felt like he had a target on his back at thursday aes debas stage. What about the tone hes trying to set today . Reporter he has three different events. Theres no more weekends of rest. You said it about 44 days until the iowa caucus. Nevada here, theyre caucus, theyre going to be the third state to get a crack at it in about midfebruary. Hell be coming and speaking in about ten minutes here to local teamsters here in las vegas before going over to a seoul Food Restaurant for a conversation and meeting up with Latino Community members. I want to let you hear last night from mayor buttigieg. We asked him about the debate in which he was not only taking aim from Elizabeth Warren on his left, but aim from Amy Klobuchar who has tried could contend to voters that she say pragmatic candidate much like her midwestern partner Pete Buttigieg. I asked him about that and this is what he told us last night . I think as the race gets more competitive, for better or worse we can expect more of that. The most important thing is continue driving our message about what america will need, why i can defeat donald trump, but the best president for the eras that got to come afterwards. Ill continue to defend our message, our campaign, and my record. You heard it at that debate, alex, and youre hearing it here in places like las vegas, as you have for the last ten months back when Pete Buttigieg first launched his bid. Hes tried to carve out the middle ground in this campaign and tried to contrast himself with donald trump. But, yet, not in a way of high rhetoric, but one in a way in which he just released a campaign ad last week thats airing on tv in iowa in which he says that the United States needs a president who can focus on the issues that are important to voters and i think thats why you continue to see him focus on Campaign Events even though were just two months out from the nevada caucus, Campaign Events like this, speaking directly to Union Members as well as different different latino leaders across this state, alex. All right. Thank you for that. And with me now, Daniel Strauss and with a welcome to you, daniel. I know that youve been covering mayor buttigieg. What did you make of his response to being a real target on that stage wednesday night . Its really a testament to how competitive buttigieg is in iowa and the fact that were closing in on that caucus and that contest. For buttigieg, he needs to maintain that frontrunner status because if he wins or places well in the state, he proves a level of viability that most can dates in this field want. But his competitors want to stop him doing that because winning in iowa and defeating someone like buttigieg is key to their electoral strategy. So youre thinking being a target was a good thing and you think he handled himself well . Partially. On the other hand theres still ongoing negative stories about buttigieg, about how hes had these closeddoor fundraisers. This one in the wine cave. What is that wine cave thing . That things just gone viral. I would like to go to a wine cave. The real thing behind this, though, is that there are candidates who are trying both buttigieg and warren are trying to poke holes in their electoral arguments right now and prove that their claims about transparency dont really hold up to snuff. And right now theyre questioned for buttigieg about his work at mckenzie, these closeddoor fundraisers despite the fact he has opened up his fundraisers to press pools, meaning theres some reporter thats following buttigieg at these events. At the same time, though, today and yesterday there have been stories about how Elizabeth Warren prior to running for president she held closeddoor fundraisers as well. So at the debate, what stood out for you in terms of your overall takeaway . Who stood out . I mean, look, joe biden had a pretty good night or at least better than some past performances. But also Amy Klobuchar, think this was her strongest debate performance yet. It really surprised the buttigieg team who was ready for Elizabeth Warren to go after him on these fundraisers but not klobuchar. It also is a testament to the fact that klobuchar needs a breakout moment. Time is running out for her. Shes been largely invisible throughout most of this primary or petering on the edges and she needs these breakout debate performances do well in iowa. A midwestern state shes argued she knows how to win. We just heard vaughn and ali, our road warriors on the trail and they say the candidates are playing up the issues and not trying to talk about impeachment. But the voters are bringing it up to some degree. Do you get a sense of how much that is their focus . I mean, look, theres a trepidation among these campaigns right now because these are really unchartered waters for democrats. They are not sure how impeachment is going to play as this moves forward and they want to see how this unfolds. At the same time, though, i think most voters really want know from these elected officials and these candidates what they think, whether this is a good idea. Whether this will blow back and how this will affect the president ial election. Okay. Dani Daniel Strauss, good to see you. Happy holidays. Tipping point or not, whether republicans are finding their voice against the president next. S are finding their voice against the president next. If your gums bleed when you brush, you may have gingivitis. And the clock could be ticking towards bad breath, receding gums, and possibly. Tooth loss. Help turn back the clock on gingivitis with parodontax. Leave bleeding gums behind. Parodontax. Creais back at red lobster. Ast with new creations to choose from; like rich, butterpoached Maine Lobster and crispy crabstuffed shrimp rangoon. How will you pick just 4 of 10 . It wont be easy. Better hurry in. Quitting smoking is freaking hard. St, like quitting every monday hard. Quitting feels so big. So, try making it smaller. And youll be surprised at how easily starting small. Can lead to something big. Start stopping with nicorette were looking at someone who is going to defend the sanctity of human life, who would move the embassy to jerusalem, who would preserve religious liberty, who would put isis on the run, have a soaring economy. Theres a lot of things there, but it doesnt have to be an either or. It can be a yes and. President and ceo of the family leader reacting to this christianity today oped calling for President Trumps removal. And we have white house chief of staff and msnbc contributor. Lets get into this one, andy. He does place a fair amount of significance on that oped, but do you buy his explanation for why some evangelicals stick with President Trump . Well, first of all, the article christianity today is not the magazine that it used to be. And theyre usually kind of apolitical or outside the political realm so im not sure that hes speak fing for any bi constituency here. I do think hes raising his conscience and our conscience as to whats going on. Donald trump is not a very moral person, hes not my cup of tea. But by the same token i dont think that any of the debate in washington, d. C. Around impeachment has risen to the level of removal. And i was very disappointed with the way the impeachment process went forward in the house. It was very partisan, it was more hyperbolic than it was really trying to find the truth and discuss the truth and the facts and what those facts were. So i dont think that the stage has been set for any credible debate over removal. And the trial on the senate, i hope, will happen soon. I dont understand the quid pro quo nature of what the speaker is trying to do. I have respect for the speaker, by dont think that this is the time to be playing a game of ill give you this document if you promise to do these particular things. So im troubled by the whole process. But this has turned into a kind of a Reality Tv Show and see if anybodys going to be voted off the island. And i dont think the president s going to be voted off the island. Look, andy, the actions which led to this president s impeachment are by no means his first, democrats argue, immoral infraction. What is the Tipping Point for some evangelicals, and when we were talking about bob, he talked about policy versus morality. Do you find that that is sort of the gauge by which evangelicals are looking at this president . You know, its a hard thing to discuss, but i do think that america has long had a history of not questioning or maybe kwebing tkwe questioning the morality of a leader but not asking for them to be removed because they were immoral. Jack kennedy was not the most moral president but you didnt find people saying he should be removed because of that. But in america we do separate the political definition of morality from the government definition of leadership. And President Trump has been a strong leader. The economy is working well. Unemployment is virtually nonexistent, its a very high Employment Community right now. The trade deals have been struck with china, thats important. Weve seen that hes got a budget passed. Hes been a strong leader. I dont happen to agree with how he lives his life, but i cannot question his ability to lead. I dont always agree in the direction hes leading us, but hes getting things done. And we dont have a tradition in our country of removing leaders because they are immoral. If they commit crimes, thats a different case. But we havent seen definitive definition of a crime that was violated that the president should be removed for. But, and, look, andy, youre making good points but you have said hes not your cup of tea. Lets add the voice of former not my cup of tea. For a lot of republicans, and that would include former arizona senator jeff flake. He wrote a similar oped in the washington post. Could this be an undercurrent . Do you think centrist republicans are finding their voice in these writings . I do think look, i want our leaders to be picked in the democratic process. And removed in a democratic process. So i look forward to the elections. Thats where we should exercise these responsibilities, not in the course of an impeachment that says its a high crime and misdemeanor. Thats a thats a very steep thing. No president has been removed through impeachment. President s have been impeached but they havent been removed. I dont think donald trump is going to be removed and i dont think what the house did in terms of their impeachment process justified any credible argument that he should be removed. So then youre not surprised that Senate Republicans are digging in their heels ahead of what the trial would be there regardless ha regardless of what that looks like . If theyre looking for new evidence to come out that shows that he is guilty of a crime, i think that means that the house did not do their job on impeachment. Clearly the house did not come up with what they say were real facts. They say he just didnt do a good job. We dont like the way he did his job. Thats a very different test. Thats not the right test in a democracy. I celebrate our democracy. I dont want to take away the peoples will that was shown in an election. And thats a very high bar and i dont think donald trump has been besmirched to the point that he has committed a crime thats reason for him to be removed from office. Well, look im disappointed at the way the house did their job. I dont think they did a good job. They are too partisan, too quick, they practiced too much hi hyperbole and they didnt allow the facts to come out. A lot of democrats would differ with you and what the facts did say. This is happened at a rally discussing Debbie Dingell who recently lost her husband former congressman john dingell. Take a look, an. I take down the floogsags. Why are you taking them down . For excongressman dingell. Do this, do that. Rotunda, everything. I gave him everything. Thats okay. She calls me up, its the nicest thing thats ever happened. Thank you so much. John would be so thrilled. Hes looking down. d be hed be so thrilled. Thank you so much, sir. I said thats okay, dont worry about it. Maybe hes looking up, i dont know. [ laughter ] i mean, youre shaking your head. That was outrageous. That was outrageous. I worked very closely with representative dingell, chairman dingell was a tremendous force in the u. S. House and i worked with him, i respected him. I did didnnt always agree with but we worked well together. And debbie ding rerl his wiell,t respect for her. The president should not have done what he did when he said that. It wasnt right, it wasnt accurate, it wasnt a good description of john dingell or Debbie Dingell and he should apologize. But, again, thats not an Impeachable Offense. We have lots of people saying things that they should apologize for today. Lets go to the ballot box and cast our vote in private and see what happens. Is there anything that donald trump can say, andy, that makes you think hes not fit to be president , that he should be removed . Well, again, thats a political call. Its not an impeachment call. You dont just remove someone from office by an impeachment process. Do it at the ballot box. Lets see what happens in november. I dont think the democratic field has been mature enough to give us definition of what theyre going to look like next november. We havent seen whos going to emerge. I think the democrats were dealt a very good hand this election cycle. They havent played their hand well at all. Donald trump has been playing his hand extremely well because the democrats are misplaying theirs. Do you think republicans will vote to remove this president from the office in november . Do i think republicans will vote against him . Correct. I think there are some republicans that will. I think i know republicans that voted against him last time. Do i think that the democrats are going to put up a candidate the republicans would want to vote for . I havent found that candidate yet. And, remember, i prefer to vote for candidates rather than against them. Okay, andy card, we always love talking to you. Come again. Happy holidays to you. Reelection on the line, the four Democratic Senators whose fate in 2020 could depend on their Impeachment Vote. In 202n their Impeachment Vote. 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A place for mom is a free service that pairs you with a local advisor to help you sort through your options and find a perfect place. A place for mom. You know your family we know Senior Living. Together well make the right choice. Back to 2020. Democrats are open the campaign trail today, one last chance to talk to voters in 2019. This comes on the heels of the sixth democratic debate on thursday night which despite being the smallest candidate debate so far is full of fireworks on a variety of issues from impeachment to wine caves. Joining me now, columnist for the daily beast. Former spokesperson for hillary clinton. And republican strategist and board member of republican women for progress. Welcome to all of you. Felipe, who do you think had the best debate thursday . We go through this where we say Amy Klobuchar elevated herself and did well. Its true, but other than staying in the position shes in she doesnt move much . Why . Why didnt she move much . I dont know. She never has a problem meeting the criteria for the debates. Theres a lot of options. Two months from now we might be talking about the surprise of Amy Klobuchar. But overall i think the debates are more like the nhl than the nba. Its possible for there to be a tie. I dont think anyone did much or you can see how frustrated they are to take votes from people, but that doesnt mean that theyre landing punches. What do you think about that debate . Who came out stronger . Well, you know, i think it was really andrew yang made the case for him set of. Of course i agree that Amy Klobuchar was someone that walked away with accolades. I feel like were seeing a trend with her that we saw with Elizabeth Warren. People are taking her seriously. Ive liked her all the while. Ive liked her as senator. What i do like about Amy Klobuchar . Shes practical and makes sense. Shes middle of the road and not looney toon crazy. Thats going to be more pally theable. But andrew yang is kind of funny. The only thing i dont like about andrew yang is that universe ail basic incomal basi he just needs to come out to my home state and see how that works out and its terrible. One of the most notable moments was between Pete Buttigieg and senator Elizabeth Warren. Listen, everybody. The mayor just recently had a fundraiser that was held in a wine cave full of crystals and served 900 a bottle wine. Billionaires in wine caves should not pick the next president of the United States. This is the problem with issuing purity tests you cannot yourself pass. [ cheers and applause ] if i pledge if i pledge never to be in the company of a progressive d Progressive Democratic donor, i couldnt be up here. Senator, your net worth is one hundred times foomine. He went on to make the point he was the only nonmillionaire on the stage. Give me a sense of who got the better of that . I think buttigieg did and neither of them profited from it because voters dont like to see politicians squabbling on stage. But when he said, look, we cant fight with one hand tied behind our back, trump and the republicans are raising all this money because they dont have a primary fight. And were spending it all on each other so we need as much money as we can get or, he didnt say this, were going to be entirely dependent on Mike Bloomberg, which they will be anyway in the fall for a lot of the money that they need. But this was sort of the 400 proof populism, you know, its appealing to some people, it doesnt have a really great track record in american politics. You know, people dont get elected by hating on anybody, rich or poor. And i dont think that Elizabeth Warren, whos a very strong candidate in many ways, i dont think she really did herself a lot of good with that. Serena, theres a new pole out from cnn that shows that the u. S. Economy has earned its highest ranking in almost two decades. Is the economy still trumps ace . Absolutely. He continues to take credit for what are essentially obamaera policies that got to us where we are. Weve talked about this many times here. People dont know the average American Voter does not know that its a policies of the last presidency. This has nothing to do with trump. A little adjustment here and there, the trump administrations comprised of liars. They want to go out and take credit for what is not theirs and theyre going to continue to do it and it will help them with the base. But the base is shrinking. He needs to make the case to independents as to why he deserves a second term. And why this impeachment inquiry and now the impeachment itself is a total sham. I think hes sort of winning on that bit, again with the base and if the economy stays strong and theres no blowup until after election day next year, hes going to take it again. Look, i want to ask this next one thats a bit premature to say that. Well. I know it is but its true. A lot of people as weve talked to jonathan, a lot of people will vote their wallets when it comes right down to it as youre heading into a voting booth. I mean, it has happened before in the past. I realize this may be a bit of a different election after going through four years of donald trump. That said, let me ask you some politics here. Im going to ask felipe and jonathan this because theres focus on the president ial race. But i want to talk about this senate race with you guys. Theres an article in the Cook Political Report and it talks about four senators whose fate could be determined by their vote on impeachment. Im going to read part of this to you. Its kind of long so here it is. For Alabama Democrat doug jones a vote to acquit trump wont be received well in the state that gave him 62 of the vote in 2016. Yet it would also put jones at odds with his party, especially activists and donors. For republican u. S. Senators Martha Mcsally in arizona, cory gardner in colorado, Susan Collins in maine, a vote to remove trump from office is likely to earn them very credible primary opposition, something that would hurt their reelection efforts but a vote to acquit trump doesnt help them appeal to the kind of collegeeducated suburban voters they need to win. How nervous are senators right now about how their vote will impact the election . Ill let you go first, jonathan, and felipe you can wrap it up. Before they get to the vote on whether to remove him is the vote on whether this is going to be a real trial or a fake trial. Thats the way this needs to get teed up right now. And i think mcsally and gardner and collins, they need to be asked, do you want a real trial in the senate or a fake trial . You cant have a real trial with no witnesses and no documents. Thats fake. And the first thats the first thing they have to face. I think if they vote the wrong way on that, in other words if they vote with mcconnell and to say that theres going to be a fake trial, i think theyll really pay for it in the general election. Thats the political peril for them right now. They can get away with voting against removal from office, they could say theres an election coming, whatever. I dont think they can get away with voting for a fake trial. You know, felipe, i want you to answer the question as well and also if you heard andy card in the conversation that i had with him, you know, he suggested that the democrats have not put forward the facts to support enpeaching the enenpeaching this president. Is that something thats a widely held belief within republican circles and is that, indeed, a fact . I dont think it is. Democrats seem to think they put forward facts. Its funny you say that because your audio and producers can tell you i was watching and screaming into the mic . Oh, really . Because i couldnt believe, you know, andy card who i think wed like to think is from a bigob gone era when trump was out of his mind. But would you ever have allowed george bush to do anything like this . Of course he wouldnt. George bush wouldnt have done anything like that. Hes a decent guy. No. No. And also theres no way andy card voted for donald trump and theres no way andy cards going to vote for donald trump. But on your senate question, you know, to take what jonathan was taking a little further, its not just those senators individual votes, its the total process. For instance lets just say that mcconnell, he wont do this, but lets just say mcconnell says it came over here and im not taking a vote, im dismissing it, or whatever procedural game. Without casting a vote, youve got collins, mcsally, gardner, theyve got a problem there. And thats what mcconnell really has to balance is that people are going to judge the totality of this. If he runs a circus or a sham, people in november are going to say to mcsally and gardner, youre part of that. You didnt hold him accountable. That is right. Okay. All right, guys, im going to let you guys agree on that point. Thank you. Good to see you all. Happy holidays. Thank you so much. Happy holidays. Coming up next, trouble on the tracks. Frightening moments when a train goes off the trails. And a bit later, the reason trumps legal team says he may not have been impeached . Really . So what were we watching . N impe . Really so what were we watching well, audreys expecting. Twins grandparents we want to put money aside for them, so. Change in plans. Alright, lets see what we can adjust. Wed be closer to the twins. Change in plans. Okay. Mom, are you painting again . You could sell these. Lemme guess, change in plans . At fidelity, a change in plans is always part of the plan. Cologuard colon cancer and older at average risk. Lemme guess, change in plans . 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Does scrubbing grease feel like a workout . Scrub less with dawn ultra. Its superior greasecleaning formula gets to work faster. Making easy work of tough messes. Dawn takes care of tough grease, wherever it shows up. Scrub less, save more. With dawn. Creais back at red lobster. Ast with new creations to choose from; like rich, butterpoached Maine Lobster and crispy crabstuffed shrimp rangoon. How will you pick just 4 of 10 . It wont be easy. Better hurry in. 1 in 5 people you meet wear yeah. That many but right now, is not the time to talk about it. So when youre ready, search my denture care. Poligrip and polident. Fixed. Fresh. And just between us. In america, the zip code youre born in can determine your future. The y helps fill the opportunity gap with Education Programs for all. For a better us, donate to your local y today. New this hour, a developing story. A Freight Train cross the Potomac River derailed early this morning sending two cars right there into the water. Train safety Officials Say the bridge collapsed tipping that train over a popular foot bridge. The cars fortunately were empty and there nor injuries reported. The cause of that accident is under investigation. Pretty dramatic pictures right there . Brilliant strategy or big blunder . The pros and cons of withholding the articles of impeachment from the senate. T from the senate. Do you have concerns about mild memory loss related to aging . Prevagen is the number one pharmacistrecommended memory support brand. You can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. Creais back at red lobster. Ast with new creations to choose from; like rich, butterpoached Maine Lobster and crispy crabstuffed shrimp rangoon. How will you pick just 4 of 10 . It wont be easy. Better hurry in. Now to the latest on impeachment. My legal panel joining me now, two former federal prosecutors, also msnbc legal analyst. Guys, welcome. I want to ask salve my andy card interview, about 15, 20 minutes ago. He seems to the camp believing go ahead president did not commit any Impeachable Offenses and by far from being the only one who believes that. You first, nelson. Your response to that . I saw that interview. I thought, frankly well, let me put it this way. Im surprised his nose didnt grow a little bit during the course of that interview. He said, he said this does not rise to the level of an Impeachable Offense . Sigh would ask limb, mr. Card, you sieved george bush hadxliii. Did he ever ask a foreign leader to investigate john kerkerry . And went on to say hardly ever use impeachment. Its for very, very limited things. I would ask, what do you think about bill clintons impeachment for one instance of lying about a sexual indiscretion. Im sure hes on the record saying he was all for that. What did you think, cynthia . I was glad he was willing to criticize the president for the terrible comments he made about congressman dingell and at least we got that truth out of him, but it is disappointing. The evidence is overwhelming and uncontroverted, frankly, because the president is hiding much of the main evidence, but the evidence we do have is, there is no dispute that the president not only asked for the investigation of the rival but was willing to break the law in the impoundment act and hold the military assistance congress appropriated, a clear abuse of power. Yes. So it was surprising to me. Ordinarily i think and lately andy card level headed. On this, plain wrong. Interesting. Can i ask you, i teased i would ask my legal scholars, which you two are. When it comes to withholding articles of impeachment and not sending them to the senate. Officials are saying this president hasnt actually been impeached yet. Any truth to that, nelson . I dont see that. First, the constitution is clear. The house of representatives shall have the sole power of impeachment. That means they get to decide when the president is impeached. Not a legal scholar, not somebody on the outside. I think its a lot like an indictment of a criminal. You indict them. Just because you havent arrested him yet doesnt mean, and the trial doesnt begun, doesnt mean he hasnt been charged. You charge him. Trial is separate. Out of time. Yes or no . Has he been impeached regardless where we stand . I completely agree. That was fast. Indictment, absolutely. Another show coming up. Ill have you back on my show soon. Happy holidays to you both. And cracking down on a protrump website. Coming up, the International Link to the factory of fake stories. Y of fake stories. Its the easiest because its the cheesiest. Kraft. For the win win. So chantix can help you quit slow turkey. Along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. 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See you tomorrow at noon eastern. Up next, Kendis Gibson take things away. You got it. Enjoy the rest of your saturday. Hi, everybody. Im Kendis Gibson live at msnbc World Headquarters in new york. Lawmakers may have left for the holiday break but it hasnt died down in washington over President Trumps impeachment. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell are stuck at an impasse where the process goes from here. President trump at maralago plotting his next steps hitting back at an