Transcripts For MSNBCW Up WSteve Kornacki 20140727

The Israeli Security cabinet is meeting again to discuss how much further its going to go. The death toll is now mounting with at least 1,000 palestinians and 45 israelis killed. Palestinian Health Officials say they were able to pull more bodies from the wreckage during yesterdays lull in violence. For the latest on the ground, well turn to nbc newss Martin Fletcher live in tel aviv. Whats the latest . Reporter hi, steve. This ceasefire is getting confusing. Yes, hamas agreed to a ceasefire but it didnt take effect because it was more firing both from hamas and israel. What happened with the countdown to the ceasefire was last night israeli accepted a 24hour ceasefire. Hamas rejected it. Then there was a question of whether israel was hoping they would continue with the ceasefire anyway, but they didnt so stlal began bombing gaza again and now hamas said, yes, they do accept the ceasefire after all. Now were not sure what israel is doing. Theyre still fighting and were waiting to see whether the ceasefire takes hold. A ceasefire is such an urgent condition for the people in gaza, another 24hour humanitarian ceasefire giving the palestinians more time to stock up on food and water, more time to dig tout dead and wounded from the rubble. We talk about more than 1,000 palestinians dead. Theres about 6,000 wounded. Families in gaza trying to get to the hospital to see their lved ones, see how serious they are. In israel what theyre demanding here, the government and the military, is that, if theres a ceasefire israeli demands the right to continue looking for those secret tunnels and destroying them. Thats israelis condition for a ceasefire, they can continue finding the tunnels that threaten israeli civilians. Martin, is there potentially a calculation here . I know we were talking about this on the show when these ceasefire offers come out, the prospect of a ceasefire is in the air, one of the sides intentionally prolongs the decision because they want to get in a little more of their military activity before saying yes to a ceasefire . I think that definitely seems to be part of it. Thats the pattern. Thats whats happening. On the one hand you think, well, hamas really should be thinking of its own people, and the longer humanitarian ceasefire lasts, the better it is. For israel there is a need to continue to destroy the tunnels according to the israeli spokesman. Each side has its interest in continuing the fighting and pausing in the fighting. Meanwhile, fighting going on right now waiting for the ceasefire to take effect. Thanks to Martin Fletcher live in tel aviv. Well bring you the breaking developments on this story including more live reports from gaza and israel. Turning now to the crisis on the u. S. Border, president obama met with the president s of honduras, el salvador and guatemala to address the unprecedented flow of undocumented children from those countries into the United States. The Administration Says they discussed how to deter children from making the dangerous journey north by themselves, how to coordinate Law Enforcement and protect minors returned to their home countries. Congress appears to be moving toward a plan for a quarter of the 3. 7 billion that the white house says it wants. Congress is due to skip town at the end of next week. On friday president obama urged them to take action before doing so. It is my hope that Speaker Boehner and House Republicans will not leave town for the month of august for their vacations without doing something to help solve this problem. There have been a lot of press conferences about this. We need action and less talk. Emerging plan from House Republicans would also amend the 2008 antitrafficking law to make it easier to deport unaccompanied minors. Democratic leaders in the house and senate say thats a nonstarter for them which raises the possibility that the republican plan will be dead on arrival. The Obama Administration is also considering a range of additional actions it could take on its own including a draft plan reported to be under review that would provide Refugee Status for hundreds of children who could apply directly from honduras. The goal would be to deter the minors from making the dangerous trek on their own while still providing asylum. With more than 600,000 undocumented minors traveling to the u. S. In the last nine months, the proposal would only help a small sliver of those looking to flee. Texas governor rick perry has put forward his own plan for dealing with the undocumented immigrant crisis. He announced his intention to send 1,000 National Guard troops to the texasmexico border next month. His aim is to combat drug violence on the u. S. Side of the border. It appears perry will have the power to order the troops to make arrests if he so chooses. Its unclear whether the government will support this action. Is it a coincidence the official launch of the 2016 president ial Campaign Season is only months away from now . Perry didnt do that well last time around. One of his weaknesses in the Republican Party was his support for instate tuition for undonted youth. The job of the president and Congress Seems increasingly likely, it seems that perry could be positioning himself for another run. Could rick perrys attempt to rebrand himself as a strong texas conservative really work in the context of all this. Were here to discuss that issue and Everything Else around the border, msnbc political analyst michael steele, former chairman of the Republican National committee, april ryan, and evan the White House Reporter for buzzfeed. Com. Were in washington, lets start with the issue in washington right now. April, ill start with you. We have this emerging plan in the house right now. House republicans want to put together, they want to bring the price tag down under a billion dollars. It appears to be aa important number. They want to change the 2008 anti trafficking law. The question that raises, one, could that get through congress . Even if it gets through congress, would the white house be willing to sign off on any changes to that 2008 law . Well, when you have the head of Homeland Security who is saying hes not wanting to really tamper too much with that 2008 law, theyll go with them, particularly at a time when were talking military and things of that nature, this man, jeh johnson understands the rick perry issue. Theyre taking their lead from the National Security folks, from whats happening around the world with if leaders like the president just met with. And theyre also listening to jeh johnson. If they do cut the money, thats one thing. But to delve into cutting that 2008 law is something they dont want to deal with right now. How does that play in congress then . The two issues here, theres a band of republicans i think who are pretty much going to vote against anything. Boehner to get this through the house is going to need democratic votes. Obviously its got to go through the democratic controlled senate. How does this merging plan with the qulid of changes to the 2008 law, the real radical reduction to the price tag, does that have a chance of getting through congress . The important thing to start with is the context of the 2008 law. What that law requires is if minors who come from these uncon nexted countries show up on our border, that they are granted a chance to go through a hearing process to find out if they deserve asylum or not. The white house has signaled i met with a Senior Administration officials last week who said they dont want to see too many changes to that law that could derail all possibility of asylum hearings completely. They like to speed that process along, make it easier to make that happen. Theres been some conversations about kind of getting rid of most of that. So the white house i dont think is going to sign off on that. They get pressure from democrats to not sign off on a thing initially they were sending different signals, but part of it has been a reaction meanwhile the clock is ticking. A week till Vacation Time for these guys. Michael, i want to the allimportant august vacation. I want to bring you in on this rick perry thing. We talked about what hes doing with the National Guard. I think the most important context for that, what hes doing right now is this which happened in september 2011 at a republican debate. I want to play it and talk to you about it. You say that we should not educate chish who have come into our state for no other reason than theyve been brought there by no fault of their own. I dont think you have a heart. Rick perry was going to be the conservative answer to mitt romney for republicans in 2012. He started talking like that about immigration and this great some of conservative movement that was going to coalesce around him, it didnt happen. Is what were seeing from rick perry is a response to what he thinks killed his president ial no. I dont think so. I think one has very little to do with the other. In that clip shes talking about children already in his state and what the state is going to provide for them since theyre there. This situation is about children who are coming into the state currently who are not in the system, who are not connected to the infrastructure of the state through education, health care and all that. From his perspective, theyre two very separate issues. The idea of using the National Guard i understand what the governor is doing. You have to understand, hes a governor of a state. We have 50 independent states and independent governors that make decisions that affect their state. When the government fails to act, then the governor is going to take whatever action the governor deems necessary and appropriate to provide for the common defense, if you will, in some censor to provide for the citizens and their states some what the governors decide to do, since the federal government has not come in to try to control the flow, that were going to take whatever actions will necessary to do that. You can put this in the political context and everybody wants to do this. Thats what i do. And project to 2016. As a former Lieutenant Governor of a state who dealt with Homeland Security issues, working with our governor, theres a different conversation for the governor than just the politics of this. But the devil is in the details. You know as my former Lieutenant Governor of the state of maryland theres something called posse come that dass. Thats why the government hasnt declared this a state of emergency for the National Guard to go in. If the National Guard were to go in the president obama declared it an emergency, they would not be able to make arrests. So for rick perry to do it himself would be better because for the governor, its an emergency. He cant wait for the federal government to decide what is and is not an emergency in his state. I think the reason why when i put the political lens on, the reason im suspicious, were talking about a situation where at its heart, kids coming across the border, the first thing theyre doing is turning themselves in. Is that a situation that calls for the National Guard . From a political context does it sound good to say im bringing in thats the problem. He wants to stop the flow in. Its not the idea when they get here they turn themselves in, its the idea that theyre still coming in. From a political perspective, its clear what perry is projecting. The its perry with sean hannity on a boat with a big machine gun, a military helicopter. This is a militarization of this issue that perry is putting his name on the front of. As you mentioned from that debate, itches at that debate, i covered that debate when i was covering the election last time around. It really wasnt about perry was in good position about what he does with the border. As michael said, when they are already across the border, that was the problem perry had. I dont see anything from this that suggested all these issues kind of together perry is actually going away from the Republican Party if hes doing this really because to a certain extent he is actually going to ask the federal government for money for the National Guard to supplement this request, and this is something that the Republican Party doesnt want to development they dont want to keep funding things and projects. The white house has looked into the National Guard down there. They have looked into it but they are not doing theyre not going to federalize and make a declaration, because its posse come tadas were not all latin scholars. Sorry. Only one cup of coffee. So its when its believed that the u. S. Military is not allowed to patrol within the United States its own borders. So if indeed the federal government were to thats a federal question. No, rick perry originally asked president obama to do this. And the president said no. Lets be clear here. You can posse cum tadas all day long. At the end of the day the governor gets to decide how hes going to protect his borders. The devil is in the details. It is an interesting point there, too, because that is part of this republican proposal is about federal action in terms of the National Guard. Also i think more importantly s. A. T. Scores among our audience went up 100 points. Well see you later throughout the show. Still ahead, the sharp divide on how to handle the border crisis in one of the bluest states in the country. Thats next. When you get guaranteed low prices on everything you buy the most, everybody gets excited staples. Make more happen for less. Ever dream of being the hero . Hey, you guys mind warming this fella up for me . Im gonna go back down, i saw some recyclables. Be him with verizon xlte. Find a car service. Weve doubled our 4g lte bandwidth thanks in cities coast to coast. Hey, dont worry, i got this. So save the day with verizon xlte. On the largest, most reliable network. Get the new lg g3 with a quad hd display and 13 megapixel camera for 99. 99 hey, i heard you guys can help me with frog protection . Yeah, we help with fraud protection. We monitor every purchase every day and alert you if anything looks unusual. Wow youre really looking out for us. We are. And if there are unauthorized purchases on your discover card, youre never held responsible. 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Yesterday ram emanuel said they would provide shelter to an additional 1,000 kids and asked the local Legal Community to provide a pro bono council. The states governor, scott walker says, quote, if were not having a rapid process to get back to the country of origin theyre going to basically blend into whatever community, state and country theyre in. Thats going to have costs and drain the entire system. That highlights the way this issue of uchb accompanied minors at the border is dividing communities across the country. Nowhere is this debate more heated right now than in massachusetts, a state that is deeply blue in president ial years but much more complex when you look under the hood. Democratic governor Deval Patrick has offered to provide two locations that would shelter 1,000 children, one in cape cod and another in western massachusetts. America and this commonwealth in particular has given sanctuary to desperate children for centuries. We have rescued irish children from familiar lynn, russian and ukrainian children from religious persecution, cam v Cambodian Children from genocide, haitian children from earth quakes, sudanese children from civil war and children from new orleans from hurricane katrina. Once in 1939 we turned our backs on jewish children fleeing the nazis and it remains a blight on our national reputation. In an interview with msnbcs chris hayes, patrick emphasized the federal government could cover the cost and the average stay would be just 35 days. Were talking about a shortterm duration, housing a limited number of people in a secure facility, not integrating them in communities because indeed theyre being processed through and under the im prescription laws, and its a way to relieve the suffering of children. Despite patricks humanitarian message his proposal has stoked a heated backlash. A boston globe poll found the state divided over the plan, 50 supporting it, 43 opposing it. Opponents staged a rally at the statehouse in boston. Earlier this week in a town where one of the bases he wants to house the children is located, residents vented their anger. Its our town. We dont know how many people are coming, wer dont know if theyre gang members or whatever. My feeling is this whole invasion of our country is against the constitution. How will the governors offer to house these children fare in the face of local resistance . What impact will that have on the Obama Administrations plan to deal with them. Joining me from massachusetts, former democratic senator mo cowen, supports the proposal to shelter the children, republican state representative Mark Lombardo who opposes the governors plan. Representative, ill start with you. We played that clip from governor patricks press conference last week, a very moving press conference. You heard him outline that history. A temporary proposal paid for by the federal government, to house them while theyre processed. Did that not move you to hear the governor put it in those terms . I think what we also heard was the governor talking about his need to act because hes a humanitarian. For 16 months in massachusetts we watched how the governor treated justin. Hes no humanitarian. Please speak to this issue. He laid out specific perimeters in terms of temporary housing, up to 35 days, this is while theyre proposed, on military bases, away from the general communities, not using local services. Within those parameters, on the face of the humanitarian history that he outlined there, whats your objection to this . When we look at whether massachusetts can handle this, we have to look at the financial situation here. In the last several years, sales tax raised 25 , 500 million tax increase, the governor wanted 2 billion. Why is this important to realize . The governor passed these tax increases on the basis that we didnt have the revenue to provide basic services for the residents of massachusetts, our streets, our bridges, our local aid to our cities to fund police, fire and teachers. It would seem before we open our pocketbooks to take care of those who shouldnt be in the country, we certainly should try to take care of those who are here, massachusetts residents. According to the governors own arguments, we dont have the revenue to do so. Senator cowen, im curious to get your response. I hear them saying federal government is going to pay for this. I see 43 of people opposed to it. Listening to representative lombardo. What is your response to what youre hearing from him and opponents in general . First of all, i want to applaud the governor for standing up and doing what americans do when theres a need for americans to step up. Hes done that with his remarks last week and his indication hell work with the federal government if, if theres a need to house Migrant Children here for a short amount of time. Theres no doubt that the commonwealth, like every other state, still faces a number of challenges. We cannot use that as a false excuse not to step up and aid in this humanitarian crisis. The federal government has been clear that this would be a limited amount of time and housing for a limited number of children. I think the polls reflect theres a great deal of misinformation and misunderstanding about the current state of affairs. And there are those who use that information and misunderstanding to their benefit, to stoke the fires against immigration, against immigrants and i think its shameful and its unamerican. The reality is this is what america does when there is a humanitarian crisis. Americans step up. We aid. Theres a federal law on the books for those who claim that this is against the law. What is happening now is in fidelity with the law for children who come from Central American countries, who come as unaccompanied minors. We must by law take them, process them, ensure they are healthy and engage in our lawful immigration practices to determine what shall become of them. If we house the children here, thats what will happen here, that is the law, that is what massachusetts does and thats what we should do. Senator, sdwrouft follow up on that, one thing i wonder when we look at the poll. We played the clip from borne, other incidents, too. Since this is an offer from governor patrick, we dont know what the administration in washington is going to decide. Do you think its less likely the Obama Administration will say, okay, we take you up on this offer . Im not certain about that. I havent spoken with the white house or anyone in congress on this issue, but i think whats important for the people in massachusetts to understand, and this is easy to understand if you go to the statehouse remember site, the governors website or the department of Homeland Security, before any side is selected in this state or any other, there would need to be an evaluation to determine whether its suitable. Governor patrick showed an act of leadership by saying we have two sites, two military bases here that have the capacity in a moment of need in a limited amount of time potentially to house these children. He in no way said it will happen. He did say and im proud as a friend and someone who worked alongside with him and as a zit own of this commonwealth, he said if the need is there, if the country calls, the people of massachusetts will answer. Its an interesting question for people to be looking at from across the country. We look at massachusetts and say this is a blue state and we assume a proposal like this is going to go over well with the public. Its a much more complicated question as i think youre seeing her. My thanks to mo cowan and marc lombardo. Two of the most influential acronyms in washington make their case for whats best in america. Stay with us. When the world called for stealth. Intelligence. Endurance. Affordability. Adaptability. And when the world asked for the future. Staying ahead in a constantly evolving world. Thats the value of performance. Northrop grumman. Thats the value looki prefer today. Eeks . Clairol age defy color collection. With our best breakthrough gray coverage. Lustruous, radiant color that looks 10 years younger. Today. Age defy color from clairol. I got this. , whenever youre ready. No, ill get it let me get it. Ah uh, i dont want you to pay for this. Its not happening, honey. Let her get it. She got her safe driving bonus check from allstate last week. 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To take it back, democrats need to gain 17 seats this november, something very hard for the party that controls the white house to do in a midterm election. If you were watching yesterday you heard the second ranking democrat in the house, steny hoyer telling us the democrats are going to take back the house. Who should control the house, who will control the house . Were here to hash it out with emily bitner. Representing the republicans daniel skarp nat toe from the National Republican conditioningal committee. Thanks for joining us. Gallup took this poll about two months ago, unfavorable numbers of both parties. Among republicans, clocked at 34 favorable, 59 unfavorable. Among democrats, clocked in at 44 favorable, 50 unfavorable. I look at that and say those are not great numbers for either party. Thats a tenpoint gap right there. It seems like it might be an issue for republicans. In congressional races i dont think it is. I think people vote on the candidates and the members of congress themselves who are running. I think thats the approval, the individual persons approval that matters. And then separating themselves from the problems in washington. The other thing that is a real issue here is the president s Approval Rating which is in the tank we can put that up on the screen. This weeks gallup poll. When you look at the states and districts where these are playing out, i havent seen one poll, including whether obama won, where he is not under water with voters. Hes very unpopular. I dont think the democrats would want to send him to any of these races in the country because hed actually hurt their candidates. Emily, maybe you can respond. You cant have it both ways, cant have it be a race about the president and the race of individuals. Theyre desperate to have the 2014 election bs about anything but House Republicans. If you look at House Republicans brand, its worse than republicans in general. They are at historic low Approval Ratings because everything the American People want, they are blocking. So whether its equal pay instead were getting shutdowns. Whether its raising the minimum wage, theyre raising the specter of impeachment. Time and time again when you see twothirds of mayor cans in support of a common sense idea, ill show you 234 republicans who oppose it. It is about the president , with all due respect. I challenge you to name one district where you would want the president and nancy pelosi to go visit. The races in these districts are about having a check and balance on the president. Thats what voters want. Thats why many of emilys own Democratic Candidates are throwing the president under the bus. They cant get away from him fast enough. Weve seen House Republicans in power now since 2010 when the tea party was this new shiny object and the American People have seen what it means to have the tea party in power. They are rejecting House Republicans and their agenda. Weve had three elections about president obama. Its time to have an election about how republican i dont know if we put it on the screen. Thats the other thing we have here. You the republican number, the tea party is 30 to 51. Do you embrace the label tea party. Different candidates will run Different Things in different districts. The greatest thing about our candidates, they fit their districts. Our party does not speak with one voice. The other part of this is this election in many ways is about competence. Even liberal democrats are not happy with the president because they dont think hes competently executed the programs they want. If you wanted obama care and you supported obama care, you cannot be happy with this administration because they have done such a bad job executing that and so many other issues. I think thats a big part of the election here. Steve, you asked him such an interesting question about sewer gats. If youre a republican, the sur galts are people like sarah palin or ted cruz or todd akin. Were proud of the sewer gats we have on the democratic side of the aisle. Theyre going to try to do everything they can to make this election about the president should visit these districts. Well pay the plane ticket. He goes to hollywood, manhattan, chicago, raises millions of dollars. Weve been talking about immigration. If theres nothing done on this border. Weve been talking about this since the 2012 election, far your party, daniel, if theres no Immigration Reform this fall, that is what happened in 2012, wasnt it . I dont think saying a bill in the middle of the night that no one has read thats an obamacare style bill is going to help anyone. House republicans said we want to take a step by step approach to this problem. I think with the Current Crisis thats happening, we have to take politics out and pass something and come together and do what makes sense and Border Security has to be first. Emily, last word. It was more than a year ago that the senate in a bipartisan way passed a comprehensive immigration bill that barack obama, george bush, the chamber, the Faith Community all support. Theyre dragging solutions for the American People so they can sue the president. They held hearings on a lawsuit against the president this week. About 100 days from election. Thanks to emily bitner and daniel skarp nat toe, appreciate it. Waj gap and the gender gap collide in one of the weeks most controversial articles. Well see whats really there. Thats next. They are the heavy hitters of campaign fundraising. The king makers or queen makers whose checkbooks can influence an election. The Koch Brothers as does sheldon add elson and george soros. Who doesnt come to mind necessarily when you think of big donors are women. Maybe its a reflection of the forbes 500, fewer women in this list than men, especially at the top, only one woman in the top ten. Maybe its also how the parties and campaigns are soliciting big money. Politico pointed out for all the electoral gains women have made in seeking office, the gender gap in how much money women give is much different. Women arent giving as much. Top male donors have given six times as much in this election cycle so far. Those are the quick numbers. The question is why. One theory is women expect kachbd dats to spend more personal time with them talking about the issues and why they should give up their checkbooks for a campaign. They also dont seem fond of femalespecific events like spa days or womens teas that campaigns sponsored. Women in the top pool of earners tended to devote more time to raising children and running a household or do women donate to Cancer Research than politics . Many women also want to talk about things like the economy and other issues. Ciersten gillibrand weighed in this week to say, quote, women often appreciate a relationship, knowing where their money is going and where it is going to be used so they can feel good about their investment. She tries to engage with women on a more personal level in the hope they understand the decisions are made in washington every day and if they arent a part of it, they may not like the results. Back here is msnbc political analyst michael steal, Jess Mcintosh is the Communications Director for emilys list, a Political Action committee. Maris dewitt is a political adviser. Meredith, ill start with you. You are who this article is talking about. We ran through all these theories, all the ideas about why this imbalance exists. Im curious what you think the reason is. I think a lot of the reasons you mentioned with absolutely valid. One thing thats missing is i think the data is pretty hard to evaluate. When i looked at the study, you look at donors that are making contributions to candidates and committees are being attributed with that gift. When a couple makes a contribution to a super pac those numbers get skewed, those numbers tend to be in six and sevenfigure figures. Oftentimes the default is for the man to, quote, get credit for that contribution. I think the numbers arent as bad. Also i would say women arent sitting out of this power game in politics. Women are some of the most volunteer fundraisers or bund hers as we call them in the country. If you look at the last reelection of president obama, they list their bundlers publicly, but you may not know the ranks. Of the top 11 people that raised money for the president , five are women. Let me ask the question about that that ciersten gillibrand was making. Is there something to that when youre soliciting money from women, they want what shes talking about there . If you think about it in context, men have been organizing politically and figuring out how to use money for power and access since the republic was founded. Women have been doing this for the last 30, 40 years really in earnest. So it takes a little bit more to let women know that they are incredibly powerful when it comes to political persuasion. I think senator gillibrand is absolutely right. My guess is that she has more women donors than your average. Ill guess Elizabeth Warren does, Hillary Clinton in 2008 does. Amy klobuchar does. When we see women in office, well see more women donors. How many donors do you have . We have a community of over 3 million. Are they more than 80 are women. We are one of the oldest, most successful political organizations, funded heavily by women. The explosion in membership over the last two years are younger and more male, which is nice to see men come around to the idea of womens leadership. Its definitely not an impossibility. Weve been doing it quite well for a while. Michael steele, im going to guess as chairman of the National Committee you did fundraising in your time. We always talk about the gender gap. Here is the vote from 2008 and 2012. In 2008 obama won the womens vote by 50 points. I guess when youre trying to cultivate female donors, you have the gender gap. Less of a gender gap in 2012. I was chairman at that time. We had a different spike because we had a different relationship. What we did was, to your point, we looked at the emilys list model of individual downstream donors, in other words, a small dollar donor, getting them introduced to the idea of contributing to a political candidate or political party. What is the underlying story in all this is regardless of that 200year lead time men have on giving, it is the women in the household who told the guy they could give in the first place. So there was always this power center in the Family Structure in which the women said we can do that, you can sign off on that check and let it go in many cases. In a lot of other instances, what we found is the guys was out front, so it was a matter of peeling that back and allowing women donors to emerge more freely through the process . A lot of it was the small dollar stuff . For republicans it was some of the first steps we were talking in this area. Thats interesting. Weve got to squeeze in a break here. I want to talk about what that advantage has make in terms of politics and policy in this country, in terms of how things are changing. A couple more theories i want to bass them around. Well do that as soon as we come back. G beneful. [announcer]and why wouldnt he be . 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Women are also, when they are mentored by other women, i find them to be most effective and mo more. The finance chair is responsible for building a group of people that will meet every single week, take time out of the busy lives to make phone calls and host events. When thats led by a woman, ive seen women are more motivated to raise their hand and lean in. At the end of the day, women want to win, they want to support candidates and causes that are being run effectively, funds managed strategic cli. They want to see that person in elected office be effective. This position of finance director, this is interesting. Youre saying that overwhelmingly, a very important fundraising job is overwhelmingly a job done by women. Ten years ago when i started working on campaigns, very often that was the only position held by a woman on a campaign. It seems to be that for either party that was the job ive talked to a number of them about it, most of them said they were mentored by a with woman to get into this job. I think theres a tendency to treat women like a special kind of sub species that needs to be spoken to softly and have their hair brushed. No, weve just people. If you talk to us in a way that you would talk to any political donor, you might have a good result. I think women are particularly good at understanding that other women are just like them. We are short of time. Since you are a donor and we a political show, in 2016 are you interested in seeing Hillary Clinton run for president . I would love to see secretary clinton run. Ive helped her in the past raise money. Shes an amazing person. I think women are excited about her candidacy as they are many others. I think these numbers will continue to change if she does decide. Political fundraising on both sides. Here is the other side of it, too. I want to thank Jess Mcintosh with emilys list. An update on the apparent increase in fighting in eastern ukraine, plus israels response to the fighting in gaza. All the details. Stay with us. Thats why im so excited about these new milkbone brushing chews. Whoa, im not the only one. Its a brilliant new way to take care of his teeth. Clinically proven as effective as brushing. Ok, here you go. Have you ever seen a dog brush his own teeth . The twist and nub design cleans all the way down to the gum line, even reaching the back teeth. They taste like a treat, but they clean like a toothbrush. Nothing says you care like a milkbone brushing chew. [ barks ] nothing says you care like a milkbone brushing chew. Carmax is the best place to start your car search. E, great for frank, whos quite particular. Russian jazz funk . Next to swedish hip hop. When he knows what he wants. Thank you. Do you have himalayan toad lilies . Spotted, or speckled . Speckled. Yes. He has to have it. 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Personnel on the ground say the fighting seems to be increasing as the Ukrainian Tanks are advancing further south. Officials are saying troops are getting close to retake the city of donetsk. Well be back with more on the ukraine and the latest from gaza right after this. Hey, i heard you guys can help me with frog protection . Yeah, we help with fraud protection. We monitor every purchase every day and alert you if anything looks unusual. Wow youre really looking out for us. We are. And if there are unauthorized purchases on your discover card, youre never held responsible. Just to be clear, you are saying frog protection right . Yeah, fraud protection. Frog protection. Fraud protection. Frog. Fraud. Frog. Fraud. I think were on the same page. Were totally on the same page. At discover, we treat you like youd treat you. Fraud protection. Get it at discover. Com a body at rest tends to stay at rest. While a body in motion tends to stay in motion. 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The death toll is mounting with 43 soldiers and three civilians killed on the israeli side. In gaza the death toll climbed to over 1,000 yesterday. Its because palestinian Health Officials say they had time to pull bodies from the rubble during the 12hour ceasefire. Well go to Nbcs Richard Engel in gaza. Nobody covers a war zone better than him. But we now turn to the ukraine. The Malaysian Airlines flight 17 disaster refocused International Attention on the region. Nbc news is reporting that fighting around the crash site is increasing. Government tanks are moving further south and people from nearby villages are reportedly evacuating. In an interview on thursday, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, army general Martin Dempsey shared his fear that violent nationalism might spread even further. When russia has made a decision of that magnitude to change what has been the accepted order, the sanctity of sovereign nations, my fear is actually, if i have a fear about this, its that putin may actually light a fire that he loses control of. So who does the president lean on . He leans on his number two apparently, joe biden. Speaking by phone friday to the ukraines president , biden relayed the message the u. S. Will continue to press sanctions for its, quote, destabilizing and irresponsible actions in ukraine. Expect the kirk tour you know of uncle joe, biden is obamas goto guy on crises. As the new yorker puts it, in contrast to dick cheney, biden made his remark by reenforcing the president s supremacy rather than maneuvering around it. For that the president trusts him. Those who know him say biden is so effective when it comes to forging personal connections because he treats everyone he meets with humor and charm. He has a stable of goto lines and one of his favorite openers is, if i had hair like yours, id be president. Youve got to start off with the assumption the other guy is not an idiot, biden says, its really very important. If youre able to communicate to the other guy that you understand his problem and some of this diplomatic bull communicates we have no idea of your problem. Another keepass saj is his exchange with Vladimir Putin back when putin had the title of Prime Minister, i said, mr. Prime minister im looking into your eyes and i dont think you have a soul. Did you really say that the reporter asked . Absolutely, positively. He looked back and smiled and said, we understand one another. Biden said this is who this guy is. The story is a fascinating look at who joe biden is. When you think of that uncle joe kirk tour, it raises the question is he getting the respect he deserves . Will he ever or is that one of the indignities that comes with being the veep. We have april ryan with American Radio Networks and Evan Mcmorris san tosantoro. Dick cheney a controversial Vice President. Joe biden i think a consequential Vice President , but the contrast in how they operate where cheney set up his own corner in the white house and had his own people. The biden relationship is a much different model. Thats true. Weve heard of disagreements between biden and the president. All those disagreements and all those things that happen get put into the package of the president listening to a bunch of different ideas. Its very different than with cheney and bush, whether they had any fracture at all, scooter libby, for exam. It was a huge deal, a huge rift in the white house which its not like these two guys have see down the middle on every issue. When they dont, it doesnt become a problem for the white house. Theres a passage in here, too, where biden and obama, they were having lunch together or something and they both sort of said to each other, biden was like, i cant believe were becoming friends. Biden says me neither. They seem to have developed a relationship that wasnt there at the beginning. There was a relationship there, enough for the president to bring in a team of rivals to say weve had this fracture or problem early on running for office together. You are this man that has all of this wealth of knowledge on the hill and youve been here for so long in washington. And also, your Foreign Policy on the hill as well. From the very beginning, this white house has started off with joe biden as a partnership, hes been engaged for everything to include the recovery act, most recently he worked on the issue with the schools. The school study just came out. He worked on the budget. Yes, the budget and Vice President have lunch every week to talk over things and they talk all the time. So what were saying is something thats genuine. Its not the partnership that the cheneybush people had. But this is a friendship. This is a partnership. They come together with families. They come together on a host of issues. They are in conjunction in a lot of ways. In this article, they talked to ram emanuel, the first chief of staff for president obama. He was asked about the relationship. He said the Vice President asked for one thing, that he could always comment, would never be shut down and hed be the last guy in the room to talk to him. The president lived up to that commitment. First of all, that sounds like three things to me, not one. A tribute to biden. Michael, im curious because youve been a Lieutenant Governor, and these relationships between president and Vice President , Lieutenant Governor and governor, what does the governor, what does the president let you do . Thats the key thing. Youre only as effective as the governor of the president allows you to be. So to the extent youre able to go out and carve out a space for yourself, dick cheney was able to do it because the president allowed him to do it. Elder statesmen, too. Yes. Same with biden. When i was Lieutenant Governor, i was able to do the things i said because bob said i trust you to do these things, keeping in mind that youre doing them for the governor or the president , not doing them for yourself. Thats the big difference that youve seen in the modern relationship between the Vice President and the president , is that the Vice President really is not just a cheerleader for the chief executive, but also an effective arbiter on issues, policies and the like. It mix a big difference in the relationship longterm. How much of it, i wonder, too. There was the assumption when joe biden was added to the ticket, the assumption was this is sort of the old gray beard, hes never going to run for president on his own. He was 65 when he was elected in 2008. So he gets to just focus on being Vice President. The fact that joe biden, we can talk about whether its a path for him at all, but the fact that he clearly is interested in running in 2016, i think that surprised people. Has that created tension in the white house at all . Why is everybody youre the white house correspondent. Can you feel the tension when youre there . Let me say this, i told evan something off camera, i cant say it. I will say this. Some of the headliners we think will be headliners for office, when theyre around one another for the camera, theyre okay. When the cameras arent there, oh, whatever. You can feel the tension as its arising that there are possibilities that we could be rivals against one another. If youre asking the people in the white house right now, they try to laugh it off. I made a joke with someone yesterday. I said so what is the president saying, my name is barack obama, my name is bennett and im not in it. He has this man he considers a partner who was also there when they took down osama bin laden, he has this woman who was his woman of diplomacy who was there when he took down osama bin laden. Hes got to make a big choice. The president was interviewed for this new yorker article. He sort of sidestepped the question of biden and hillary by saying they both have to decide whether they want to suffer the indignity of a campaign. Tension aside, many of obamas campaign architects have lined up behind hillary already, not to mention many of the senators and other people how has that gone over with biden, did he expect it would be different . I dont know exactly i dont have a lot of keys on the inner workings of joe bidens brain other than when he talks it sort of all comes out. Hes a very open talker, right . I do think, look, if youre a guy like joe biden who has been in washington and in power for as long as he has, sort of steady climbed up, hes not in charge of Foreign Policy stuff because they want to give him a shot at it. He was the head of the Foreign Relations committee. Long, long experience with this kind of thing. I think that probably there has to be whats the story, everybody elected wants to run for president . Its got to be tough to see people who helped you get into the white house trying to help somebody else get into the white house the next time. Hes been loyal. I think its going to be very hard for the president ultimately to do the hillary dance and kind of look over at biden standing by himself. The president will take the smart tact and stay as far away as possible and hope surrogates and others will go to biden and say dont run. Whoever is the nominee is where hell jump in. Biden strikes me as someone who values it in many respects because it is a difficult job to be the Vice President to a president like barack obama in the sense that hes a biggerthanlife figure. You wait and see what crumbs you get. This Vice President has been empowered in many ways and has on a number of occasions saved the president s buttard on a few issues. Even that orchestration worked to the president s benefit on gay marriage, for example. I believe theres more coordination to that than we like to give credit. The white house they may not have been happy about the timing and everything, but bidens instincts serve the president best in that instance. Thats the thing that i think really defines the relationship is bidens instincts have worked well for this president on a number of issues. We have to squeeze a break in. Well look at this from the standpoint of joe biden, a guy clearly interested in running for president on his own in 2016. Is there an opening where that dream could come true for him or will he be shut out by hillary . Well pick that up when we come back. A quad hd display and 13 megapixel camera for 99. 99 now what if i told youok a hotel you can save up to 60 ,me first. But you couldnt know the name until after you book . Did i say never . I didnt mean it. Would you consider a 4star hotel thats up to 60 off, you just cant know the name . Just no name . Until you book. Um. Yeah, id do that [ blows whistle ] then spend your time chasing your point b. The war of 1812. [ bell rings ] you get to point b, and sometimes things change. But your journey is not done. Capella university is the most direct path to whats next, because our competencybased curriculum gives you what you need to move forward to your point c. Capella university. Start your journey at capella. Edu. So factors like diet can negatively impact good bacteria . Even if youre healthy and active. Phillips Digestive Health support is a duoprobiotic that helps supplement good bacteria found in two parts of your digestive tract. Im doubly impressed phillips Digestive Health. A daily probiotic. How much dirt can we manufacture . More than you think. Very little. [ doorbell rings ] whats this . Whats that . Swiffer sweeper. [ lee ] i came in under the assumption that it was clean. Ive been living in a fools paradise [ lee ] i came in under the assumption that it was clean. Thats why i always choose the fastest intern. R slow. The fastest printer. The fastest lunch. Turkey club. The fastest pencil sharpener. The fastest elevator. The fastest speed dial. The Fastest Office plant. So why wouldnt i choose the fastest wifi . I would. Switch to comcast Business Internet and get the fastest wifi included. Comcast business. Built for business. Not a single he said is accurate. Thats a bizarre statement. I dont know what world these guys are in. What are they talking about . I wish they would just tell be a little more candid. With all due respect, thats a bunch of malarkey. A look at Vice President s folksy ways of calling paul ryan a liar. Clearly hed like to be reenacting that scene against the republican nominee. The reality check is where well put it up. National democratic poll, who do you want your partys candidate, Hillary Clinton 58, the sitting twoterm Vice President not even in second place. 49 points behind Hillary Clinton. It really is unprecedented in the modern era to have a Vice President who is this interested in running. Clear the democrats have a male problem. Theyve got to work that out. They need to figure out how to work that male demographic. I think that poll reflects a couple of things. One, at least among democratic voters they have their sites set on hillary. But more importantly, they have their sites set on a woman for that role for that position. Thats what hes going to be up against. The question is does he i think the assumption a lot of people have, he ultimately looks at that and says, if she runs, im not going to run. If nothing else, that could be really humbling. I wouldnt say that. Look when we saw barack obama versus the clinton machine. It wasnt that lopsided. We thought Rudy Giuliani would be president , Chris Christie could have had a chance by now. Anything can happen between now and then. But im going to say this. That 58 , that is the clinton machine. That is also going to your point t female. The possibility of another first. Once barack obama leaves the white house as president of the United States, the balloon will lose a lot of air. The reason why, because we have to love to love him or love to hate him and he was a first. This nation is still on a high about rock star and the first. How about a rock star in delaware. I think also the polls are so early now, people who are watching this stuff are really engaged in politics, really paying attention to it. Biden has run for president twice and didnt do real well when he ran the last two times. Once we get closer to the campaign, closer to the actual discussing of this stuff, i think its easy to see those kind of numbers change around. Biden can own a lot of the obama story more than other people can. He might actually run against her . I dont know if hes going to do it. But i think he he definitely seems all interviews hes done, he seems to think he could do it. As a politician, you can maybe speak to this, i look at it from the standpoint of somebody like joe biden has to factor in his image, his legacy long term. If youre the sitting Vice President and you run for president and those numbers hold up and you lose 20 primaries by 40 points, isnt it a point where it kicks in and says i dont want my name attached to that. Yes. I think you have it right, april. The bottom line is once we get past this november 2014 cycle. December 1st, the president ial sweepstakes begin. The poll numbers will be moving around and shifting. As you get into 2015 and the numbers begin to settle a little bit. Well see bidens people assess where he is relative to Hillary Clinton. Does that 58 peel back a little bit . I think youre right. Theres a lot of the first and sort of the idea of sort of the rock star element of having a female nominee. These are sobering times for a lot of mayor cans, the economy, war and peace questions, social issues and how i think biden assesses and does in dealing with those issues. Thats why what hes doing right now in Foreign Policy matters. His voice in this conversation matters. People take note of that. I think a broader beyond Democrat Poll would be interested looking at the National Poll to see where biden sits. Thats what his people are waiting to see. The scenario oi wondered about, too, who says Hillary Clinton cant say to joe biden a couple years ago, youve done such a good job as Vice President , stick around. Who want to stay in that same vein maybe thats the graceful way out of it. I dont know. You get a plane. He has a nice house. It is a nice house. Thats why we come to d. C. , to see the Vice President s house. Coming up, a live report out of gaza from richard engel, plus why the american geb bate on whats going on there might be different than its been before. Thats next. All day relief. Hmm. [bell ring] roll sound action that its given me time toabout reflect on some of lifeseen biggest questions. Like, if you could save hundreds on Car Insurance by making one simple call, why wouldnt you make that call . See, the only thing i can think of is that you cant get any. Bars. Ah, thats better. Its a beautiful view. I wonder if i can see mt. Rushmore from here. Geico. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on Car Insurance. [guy] i know what youre youre thinking beneful. [announcer]beneful has wholesome grains,real beef,even accents of spinach,carrots and peas. [guy] you love it so much. Yes you do. But its good for you, too. [announcer] healthful. Flavorful. Beneful. From purina. Just a few minutes ago israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told reporters that hamas has violated its own ceasefire. As nbcs Martin Fletcher told us earlier in the show, there has been confusion this morning in that israel initially offered to extend the 12hour ceasefire by another day. Hamas responded by firing rockets into israeli territory overnight. After israel resumed a full aerial, naval and ground assault, hamas said this morning it was agreeing the a ceasefire after all. For more on where things actually stand on the ground in gaza, we go to Nbcs Richard Engel in gaza. Can you clear up exactly whats going on over there for us . Reporter i can tell you right now were not hearing heavy bombardments. Today theres been some military activity in gaza, but not nearly the level weve been seeing in other days in this conflict. It appears that the sides of this conflict are trying once again to put a humanitarian pause in place. There have been several attempts over the last 24 hours. There was a brief lull in the fighting yesterday. But these humanitarian ceasefires havent been holding. First hamas rule will reject, then israel will reject. It appears just based on what were seeing that perhaps over the course of the day there might be another attempt to try and create a lull in the fighting. All of these are relatively small issues here. The larger issue of finding a permanent ceasefire remains illusive. I think it goes to the different strategies. The israeli plan seems to be to have multiple rolling shortterm humanitarian ceasefires and to calm the situation down. Have a 12hour window, a 24hour window. Tomorrow is eade, one of the most important holidays on the muslim calendar. Let the people here in gaza have a bit of a holiday, calm the situation down. Hamas, however, wants a deal to come first. They dont want to just stop fighting and then for all the 1,000 or so people who have been killed in this fighting, to have been killed for nothing. They want to stop fighting when a deal is in place, not just to have rolling fourhour, 12hour, 24hour pauses in the fighting. And richard, youre on the ground there in gaza. Can you give us an idea this most recent pause, what did that mean . What did that do on the ground in gaza to have that pause in violence. What did that do to life there . Reporter well, there was a much longer pause yesterday during that pause which was more or less official, people went out, streamed to their destroyed homes because about 200,000 people in gaza have been displaced by the fighting. A lot of the fighting in this war, and the three over the last several wars, a lot of fighting has been concentrated into specific neighborhoods in the south and the east. We saw thousands of refugees rushing to their homes and sometimes there was so much devastation people couldnt even find where their homes had been. Entire blocks were flattened. We saw people digging through the rubble, digging for bodies, more than 100 bodies were pulled out from the debris. Today because theres so much confusion, people arent rushing to the dangerous neighborhoods. Nobody trusts if these cease fires are real. Theyll last for an hour, then therell be strikes, then a lull. Were not seeing that kind of attempt to recover and salvage belongings. Richard engel, live in gaza this morning. Appreciate that. Please stay safe over there. We want to talk about how the conflict between the israelis and palestinians. It can seem implacable, no matter what happens with a little change except the date on the wall. Escalating violence has shown stories of families completely devastated. Palestinians borne the brunt of the fatalities, more than 150 pulled out of the rubble during yesterdays ceasefire. American audiences are beginning to see this conflict as maybe they havent in the past, maybe a little more through palestinian eyes. Gallup conducted a poll asking americans whether they thought the actions by israel and hamas were justified or unjustified. Only 11 felt hamass actions against israel are justified. 70 say theyre unjustified. Only 42 felt israels actions in return were justified, barely more than the 39 who said unjustified. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke out in defense of his countrys actions saying hamas wants to pile up as many civilian dead as they k. They use telegenicly dead palestinians for their cause. In the United States sympathy is tilted more toward the israeli side in this longstanding conflict. Our americans may be looking at the fighting in a somewhat different way. We have julia abasha, just vision, an Advocacy Group for palestinians and israelis working together. You have been trying to share the stories, the sensitivities of both sides in this longstanding conflict. From that standpoint, im curious to ask you the question as you look at how this is presented in the United States right now, if you feel maybe more than in the past, a fuller picture is getting out there. For us this is a very painful time because our work has actually focused on trying to bring the stories of leaders focusing on nonviolence to end the occupation and end the conflict and build a future of freedom, security, peace and dignity for both societies. Unfortunately were seeing a repetition that only when violence breaks out is the media paying attention. Thats the underlying dynamic here. I think whether israel is losing the media war or palestinians are winning the media war, the zerosum game, its part of the challenge we all face in trying to find a Movement Towards an end to the occupation, an end to the siege in gaza. I think the question that we want to be asking is whats the context in which this is taking place . Once we remove ourselves a little bit from the day today tragic images coming out of gaza, we can begin to talk about what needs to happen. If you were a palestinian born in gaza, you need to go to the israeli authorities to be registered as a palestinian. The 1,000 palestinians that were killed, their families will have to go back to the israeli authorities that killed their children to actually get death certificates. This is the reality of gaza under continued occupation. The occupation has not ended. I think this context is a lot of what is still missing, although theres no question that we have seen an increase in palestinian voices, i think theres been a growth in independent media coming from the ground, different groups, a hebrew language website, palestinians and israelis using social media to both be direct eyewitnesss but hold Mainstream Media accountable to whats happening. Theres been shifts. I would like to point out that the gallup poll that came out, it shows very clearly that unfortunately the belief, the point of view of americans has not actually shifted in the last 12 years. The mixed reaction to israeli attacks is very similar to what weve seen in 2002. So 12 years ago and the poll explains that very clearly, too. One thing im curious about is we hear and weve heard a lot through the years and not certainly justifiably so, the horror of living with the ever day fear for israelis of rocket attacks. Its an atrocity and the actual death thats come from that is terrible and obviously psychologically what that can do to a person, to a family, to a community. I wonder, youre talking about the reality of what the blockade of gaza has done for every day gazans. Is that something you think people are more aware of now than they were before . I think theyre more aware of the death that is happening right now. I dont think theyre aware of the context. I think theres still a lot of palestinians who do not understand sorry a lot of americans who do not understand that deoccupation forces still control the population registry of gaza, still control the borders, still control the air, still control the territorial waters, fishermen do not have the ability like fishermen around the world to actually go out to 200 miles to fish. Palestinian fishermen are limited to six nautical miles to do all of their fishing. I do think some of that is missing from the picture. Theres no question that the reality that israeli civilians are living today under rocket fire, its horrible. And if i was living there with my daughter, i would be very scared. But i think the larger picture that will allow for israeli civilians and Palestinian Civilians to ultimately live in freedom, dignity and security for both societies will pass through a larger understanding of the context that palestinians have been living under occupation for decades. My thanks to julia bacha. Still ahead, the only u. S. Senator thats ever worked at saturday night live. What are al frankens chances of working in washington for a second term . They might be dicier than you think. Well explain next. Textures, only chex mix has twenty bags of interesting. Pick your mix. 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The performance marque from lexus. But only one letter. New business owner, it would be one thing ive learned is my philosophy is real simple American Express open forum is an online community, that helps our members connect and share ideas to make Smart Business decisions. If you mess up, fess up. Be your partners best partner. We built it for our members, but its open for everyone. Theres not one way to do something. No details too small. American express open forum. This is what membership is. This is what membership does. My thanks to julia bacha. Youve heard plenty about how Democratic Senators are in trouble this election year. One race you may not have been paying attention to and maybe you should be is the Minnesota Senate race. Democrat al franken is seeking reelection, the seat he won by only 312 votes after a highly contested and very long recount in 2008 and 2009. He will likely face republican mike mcmadden. Mcfadden is heavily favored in next months republican primary. We think of minnesota as a blue state but republicans came close to winning in the 2000 and 2004 elections. Theyve lerkted norm coleman in 2002 and tim have lenity as governor twice. Mcfadden is not from the bachmann wing of the Republican Party, supports Immigration Reform with a path to citizenship and opposed last years government shutdown. Hes casting himself as a rightcenter amy klobuchar, a reference to minnesotas other democratic senator. The kind of republican that has been able to win in minnesota before. President obama isnt that popular with Minneapolis Star Tribune found a 40 of minnesotans view him favorably. Franken remain it is favorite in this race, but how seriously is americas favorite late night comedy writer. Joining me is rachel stas en berger, political reporter for the star tribune. We all remember al franken the comedian, saturday night live, all that. He got elected in 2009. For a lot of people nationally he kind of disappeared then. He stopped doing any interviews with national media, print reporters, television all that. Hes been very quiet, very diligent. I think hes worked the Minnesota Press diligently. Five years later, has that strategy worked in minnesota . Well, look. Part of what franken struggled with the first time he was running is the old joke is, is he serious, right . He spent the last five years trying to prove he was serious, about minnesota issues. In a rather Aggressive Ad Campaign hes been talking about bipartisan work, not the liberal funny man, but things that everyone would agree with. In minnesota, to some extent he did disappear, hasnt been as wild and crazy to use a saturday night live phrase. But hes been trying to prove that he really does deserve to be senator. Do people is your sense in minnesota that their perception of al franken has changed in five years because of that strategy . Do they think of him as serious lawmaker, bipartisan, those sorts of words he wants people to be identifying him with . He hasnt changed his haters. One of the things were seeing in this campaign compared to the previous campaign, the 2008 campaign that lasted well into 2009 with court cases and recounts is the republicans are taking him very seriously. They are not forgetting that he won by only 312 votes. Theyre being very aggressive. To some extent, some say the reason he won his first term is because the republicans thought basically he was not did not deserve to be senator. Hes trying to prove that he deserves to be senator. The republicans are saying, look, we are going to treat him just as aggressively, just as seriously as any other democrat who won. So whats we put the polling average up there. Right now its a decent lead. Some of those polls are a little dated. The talk nationally is republicans have sort of gotten their act together in terms of coalescing behind mcmadden sooner than maybe people expected. Its a blue state but voted republican certainly plenty of times in the recent past. What do you think is frankens level of vulnerability this fall seeking a second term . I dont think you can take this race for granted. In fact, thats part of democrats problem here, this sense of complacency. You mentioned the polls. Hes been ahead in all the polls. He is fundraising very aggressively. Democrats say, hey, its a midterm election, well do fine, were blue, theyll have serious problems. I do think you have to treat him as somewhat vulnerable. There are other states which you mentioned which were far more competitive than this one is so far. But if this race doesnt tighten up, most of us would be rather surprised. It has been a competitive state in some of these statewide elections, not on president ial elections, but statewide recently. Not only did franken face a recount, governor mark dayton, a democrat also running for reelection also faced a recount. It has been a split state statewide for a lot of these races, that may tighten up. Were starting to see that interest nationally and locally on the senate race. We were talking about this on the show yesterday about that whole question of republicans talking up. They say its going to be a wave election nationally, no evidence of the wave yet. This is one of the states, if that republican wave theyve been promising, if that emerges, this is one of the states where youll see it. Thanks to rachel stassenberger. Coming up, will comments made by a key architect of the law affect what happens to those lawsuits next. To get through the rest of these dishes i want more suds dawn . You wont last. [ female announcer ] a drop of dawn has active suds that stay stronger longer, so you can clean 2x more greasy dishes. To get the job done. Youre full of suds after all. 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Real silky smooth or creamy broths. Everything shes been waiting for. Carefully crafted with real seafood, real veggies, and never any byproducts or fillers. Wow being a cat just got more enjoyabowl. Fancy feast broths. Wow served daily. On tuesday, as you may recall, two federal appeals courts issued conflicting rulings on the Affordable Care act. The u. S. Court of appeals in d. C. Said the federal government cannot continue to pay tax subsidies to states that havent set up their own exchanges. Tax credits that help millions of americans with the cost of buying health insurance. Just a few hours after that, the Fourth Circuit in virginia said denying the states those subsidies wouldnt make sense. They agree that the wording of the law was, quote, ambiguous and subject to multiple interpretations, but the justices decided the tax credits should proceed anyway. That ambiguous wording is precisely how conservative opponents of the Affordable Care act hope to defeat it. They contend the part of the law that reads exchange established by the state. That is why so many people found it significant this week when one of the architects of the law was caught on video issuing this statement. Whats important to remember politically about this is if youre a state and you dont set up an exchange, that means your citizens dont get their tax credits. Your citizens still pay the taxes that support this bill. Youre essentially saying youre going to pay the taxes to help all the other states in the country. I hope the states will realize there are billions of dollars at stake in seth up the exchanges. Once again, the politics can get ugly around this. That was m. I. T. Professor Jonathan Gruber in a speech from jan our 2012. The New York Times once dubbed him mr. Mandate. He said citizens of only some states would have to pay all the taxes to support implementation, the very basis of the current lawsuits. The video was posted to youtube 2 1 2 years ago by the group that hosted the speech. It was picked up this week by a conservative think tank. On friday gruber said he had misspoken. Quote, i made a mistake in some 2012 speeches in describing the tax credits, according to an email he sent to the New York Times. Its clear from all my writings and modeling that tax credits are assumed to be available in all states. This is the only sensible reading of the Affordable Care act and is crop rated by every person who helped to california the law. Is this a mere embarrassment for the administration that will soon blow over or will it likely have an impact on the challenges that conservative challengers hope to dismantle the law. Jonathan cohen spoke with Jonathan Gruber on the phone about the 2yearold quote. Jonathan, lets just start on that point because in the immediate wake of the ruling this week about the state exchanges, the counter arguments that was made was, hey, look, nobody talked about this issue of a state opting out and, therefores, you cant pay federal subsidies to that state. Then it turns out that the architect of the law in massachusetts had talked in those terms. Youve spoken to him. Are you satisfied that this was just him misspeak . Look, i dont know what john gruber was thinking at the time. I asked john gruber and john gruber said john gruber doesnt know what john gruber was thinking at the time. He obviously said it. He said it more than once. One possibility is for some period of time he was under that impression. Its hard to explain. I dont know the answer. I dont know what he was thinking. I do believe he is being honestd he makes the point that appropriately at the time he was doing projections of the impact of obama care. How many people would get coverage. This was a time when several states made clear they were not going to build these exchanges and his projections assumed that everybody would be getting the tax credits. It doesnt make a lot of sense. He doesnt know why he said that. But i do take him at his word that he said that this is what he thinks. So, the thing that is at the root of all this, everybody was saying when this law was written and if we can go back to 2010 and all the republicans saying it is 2,800 pages and they had the Health Care Summit at the white house and bringing all these thick books with them and somewhere in the thousands of pages there was, evidently, a mistake was made that created the possibility for a court to look at this and say, hey, if youre a state and you dont set up your own exchange, therefore these federal subsidies cant come into this state. Do we have a sense how that mistake was made . Nobody does. I think the easiest, simplest explanation is that mistakes do get made when writing legislation. It happens, it happens all the time. Usually what happens is when the bill is passed they do a series of technical corrections. When youre writing a bill the people, the members of congress say we want to do x and be translated into legal language. Theres an office that does that and there is going to be mistakes made. Something is going to get mistranslated and typically you go back afterwards and fix things. The environment is so polarized that there was never really a chance to do those technical corrections. I think this was just a mistake, although, again, i think its important to realize that if you read in the context of the law, you read that passage properly and read what people said at the time, i dont think there is ambiguity of what the intent was. It is clear the people who were in the room who crafted the law and voted for the law and the people whose opinion counts wanted everybody to get tax assistance to get these tax credits to help them buy insurance no matter what decision their state officials made. Yeah, no, i agree with you there. Again, just based on what we heard for three years, really from everybody. I had not heard republican opponents of the law talking about this being an issue until this week. Thats why that gruber thing threw me so much. We have two conflicting rulings this week. Where does that mean the law stands right now and what is next. Does this mean the Supreme Court will have to weigh in on this. Where does the law stand right now with these two conflicting rulings . The rulings were each by the way the Circuit Courts work you have a whole bunch of judges. When you have a hearing three judges are picked up to hear the case and then you are allowed to appeal to the entire court. The administration has appealed the ruling that went against it to the full, the full Circuit Court. Most legal experts seem to think the Circuit Court will reverse the decision. Its quite possible, it will take some time, quite possible a year from now well have a situation where there are two rulings at the Circuit Court level, both basically upholding the law and rejecting this lawsuit. If thats the case, the Supreme Court may or may not take the case. We dont know. One of the things well have to wait and see. All right, we thought that court drama ended two years ago, maybe not. Once again, its back in the court. Appreciate the time this morning. Well be right back. Land. Uhhuh theres good more. Honey, look at all these smart rewards points verizon just gave me. Ooh, you got a buddy. Im like a statue. I just signed up and, boom, all these points. And theres notsogood more. Youre a big guy. Oh no. 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Thank our special d. C. Guests that joined us. Chuck todd, april ryan, michael steele, really appreciate them coming here. Thank you for joining us this weekend, too. Well see you back in new york next weekend. Saturday and sunday at 8 00 a. M. Eastern time. Up next is melissa harrisperry. Rand paul speaking and nerdland is jam packed. Get extra coffee and get comfortable because melissa is next. What should i tell him . Just make that super annoying modem noise. shuuuuuuuh. Zzzzzzzz. De ee. Dong. Shuuuhh. hello . Not all Credit Report sites are equal. Classic. Experian. Com members get personalized help plus fraud resolution support. Join now at experian. Com. With enrollment in experian credit tracker. Say hi rudy. [ barks ] [ chuckles ] id do anything to keep this guy happy and healthy. Thats why im so excited about these new milkbone brushing chews. Whoa, im not the only one. Its a brilliant new way to take care of his teeth. Clinically proven as effective as brushing. 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