Transcripts For MSNBCW The Reid Report 20141007

Jones and their attorney dana kurtz. Thank you all for being here. And i want to i guess we should note the police did issue a statement, the Hammond Police yishtd a statement in response to the lawsuit being filed by mr. Jones and ms. Mahone and their response is the Hammond Police officers were acting in the interest of officer safety and in accordance with indiana law. I guess i will start with you, ms. Mahone. Why did you call 911 during that traffic stop . What prompted you initially to call 911 . I really didnt feel safe. I wanted someone to send a higher superior because i did not trust that Police Officer at all. And were you pulled over initially by one officer . Yes. And at what point did other officers arrive . Later on. Probably about i think the first officer came ten no, about six minutes after the initial stop. And you mentioned that youd seen the officers draw a gun or one of the officers draw a gun. Was it the initial officer that pulled you over that did that or at what point did you see an officer draw a gun . When jamal was reaching in the back for his identification. Jamal, let me ask you the question now. When you were asked for your identification, you said you didnt have it. You tried to show a ticket, a traffic ticket. In the Police Statement they said you were refusing with their request to give them some torm form of identification. Is there a reason you didnt want to get out of the car as officers were asking you to . Officers were asking me to step out of the vehicle. They asked lisa to get out of the vehicle. Once the driver said she wasnt going to get out of the vehicle, i wasnt going to leave my family in the vehicle by themselves, so thats what made me tell them that. And, lisa, do you know what prompted your son, your 14yearold, to start videotaping . Why do you know why he decided to start taping the entire encounter . Yqk; p h lc well, i felt like he he probably felt like something wasnt right, because i didnt actually know that he had he was taking a video from the beginning. I didnt tell him i said, joe joe, i said, record this, and that is when the officer had pulled his gun out. And he said that he was already recording. Okay. And i want to ask you, dana, the Hammond Police provided a very lengthy statement. Ill read you one other part and get you to respond. They said in general Police Officers who make legal traffic stops are allowed to ask passengers inside a stopped vehicle for identification and request they exit a stopped vehicle for officers safety. Do you agree with that . The press conference you held earlier, you seem to dispute officers were acting lawfully. That is not what happened in this case. They never you see on the video jamal actually trying to give the officers the ticket, which had his information on it. In fact, you see lisa trying to give it to them when they refused it from jamal, shes trying to hand it to them through the sun roof. They still refuse. At no point did they give jamal a ticket for not wearing a seat belt or any indication as to why they wanted him to get out of the car. They had already acted in an aggressive manner, especially in light of whats been going on across the country with police brutality, its not surprising this family felt very concerned for their family in light of the action of these officers and being aggressive right from the beginning. And jamal jones, the police are saying the officers were acting for their own safety. At any time did you believe you were doing anything that endangered the officers . No, not at all. Thats what made me put my hands down when she stoeld me i cant even touch myself. Just put my hand down and set back and hopefully he wouldnt do what he did. Jamal, you were ultimately arrested. Theres a part of the video that goes on, its about a threeminute video, we showed about 1 20 of it, but later it shows you being arrested. What were you ultimately charged with . I believe resisting arrest. He was ultimately charged with resisting arrest but at no time did they say to him he was being arrested or cited for anything or give any indication he was doing anything wrong. If it was officer safety, the officers would have at one point at any point in time asked him to put his hands on the dash or put his hands up. The video shows that jamal is sitting in the front passenger seat doing nothing when they break and shatter the glass into the backseat, hitting the children, the children crying and then them tasering him and pulling him out of the vehicle. Even from the video, thank goodness joseph was smart enough to videotape this encounter. The video shows the officers and Hammond Police departments contention as to what happened in this case is not true. I want to ask about the kids, because i think probably for a parent, the most wrenching part the most wrenching part of the video, the shock of that glass shattering, is that you can hear your daughter crying in the backseat of the car. How are the kids reacting to this . Are they okay . Well, my 7yearold, shes been distracted lately. Shes not taking it well at all. Her teacher has spoke with me, telling me she dont think she is paying attention. Have ih to let her know what happened so she can understand what was going on. And what about your son, who videotaped this whole thing . My son, hes hes fine. I havent seen any different in his personality yet. From talking to joseph, when i talked to him, he said that he has a perception of the police now and even before that hes afraid of them. Thats terrible for children. For children to grow up and be afraid of police who are supposed to serve and protect is awful. Were the children, this can be for jamal or lisa, were the children injured at all by that shattering glass. Yes, cut yes, they jamal. The children was cut all over their body in the small in different areas of their body, they was cut. And, lisa, we dont see how ultimately this what was a routine traffic stop ended. Were you ultimately ticketed, lisa, or charged with anything . How did the traffic stop actually end and were you able to get to the hospital in time to see your mom . Okay. The traffic stop ended with me getting a ticket for no seat belt. They left me on the side of the road. Never even acknowledged the kids after they bust the window. When the ambulance came to pick up jamal, they never even asked if the kids were okay. And they left. I had to get the glass out of the car by myself before i pulled off. I did not go to the hospital, you know, directly after that. I went to the Police Station to file the complaint against the Police Officer. And after that, i went to the hospital to see my mom. Was there any response to the complaint you filed . Have you had any response from the Police Department . No. Dana, same question to you. There was a report filed, it sounds lisa mahone did what she was supposed to do, file a complaint. To your knowledge, has the complaint gone anywhere . No, it hasnt gone anywhere. In fact, you hear her, even more compelling and shocking is you hear her on 911 asking for a supervisor, someone higher up to stop this and deescalate this. At no point did they send anyone else or a supervisor to try to deescalate the situation. Jamal, talk about the outcome for you of this. You said you were tased twice. Any physical ongoing ramifications of that for you . Yes. Im a barber. I cut hair. Any time i move my shoulder, its just tense. My shoulders just very sore. My body aint been feeling right ever since he put them volts in my body. Have you talked to the children, gentleman jamal, about this . As a family, what have you told them . I told them, make sure you stay in school, respect everyone, no matter if theyre white, black or purple. Everyone do you think Everyone Needs respect. Do you think you should have gotten out of the car . As i think about it and i watch the tape, i dont think a person could have said anything to make me leave my family in that vehicle at the time. Lisa, what about you, have you had a chance to sit down and talk to the children about what happened and, if so, would you be willing to share with us what you told them . Yes. I wanted joseph, the oldest one, that all police are not the same. So, you know, dont be afraid of every Police Officer. The only i let them know the reason why i didnt get out of the car, so they would understand what was going on and they wouldnt be afraid of, you know, of Police Officers in the future. And lastly to you, dana, what is the state of this lawsuit you guys have you filed it already . If not, when do you plan to file . The lawsuit was filed yesterday. And, so, ultimately this case will go to trial. And the family in this case is seeking not only, you know, compensation for their Emotional Distress and what happened, but primarily to make changes, not only in the Hammond Police department but across the country so that this doesnt happen to another family and it doesnt happen to children across this nation. You know, we should be comfortable when police stop us for any reason and not in fear. And i think most of us now, especially in light of whats been going on, are afraid when police stop us. Their job is to serve and protect. Not to abuse the public that happened in this case. All right. Well, jamal jones, lisa mahone and dana kurtz, thank you for being here. Thank you. And coming up, an update on the condition of the ebola patients being treated in the u. S. And how the government it trying to stop it from spreading. A Court Victory for people in ferguson, who have been protesting the Police Shooting of Michael Brown. Ill talk to the lawyer who won the case. Ameriprise asked people a simple question in retirement, will you outlive your money . Uhhh. No, that cant happen. Thats the thing, you dont know how long it has to last. Everyone has retirement questions. So ameriprise created the exclusive. Confident retirement approach. Now you and your ameripise advisor can get the real answers you need. Well, knowing gives you confidence. Start building your confident retirement today. Ts the problem . Bart said hed give us our Credit Scores for free. Then he asked for our credit cards. Boo and after 30 days he said it wasnt free anymore. People stop paying for your Credit Scores but what should we do . Go to credit karma dot com you dont need a credit card and its always free. Ooh credit karma dot com, where free is really free. Woman what do you mean, Homeowners Insurance doesnt cover floods . 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Today the pentagon is reassuring americans and lawmakers that troops traveling to western africa to fight ebola willhnnj be safe. If somebody something contract ebola and becomes symptomatic, they will be handled just like youve seen on the recent ones who came back on an aircraft specially designed to bring them back. Theyll bring them back to one of the centers specially designed to handle the ebola patients right now. Meanwhile, additional screening will likely be coming soon to four u. S. Airports for passengers arriving from west africa, including asking travelers where theyve been and taking their temperatures. This as we learned ashoka mukpo has received his firsti÷n dosagf an experimental treatment at the nebraska medical center. Meanwhile, its been three days since doctors in dallas first administered the same experimental drug to Liberian National Thomas Duncan. He remains in critical but stable condition. Sarah doloff is outside the dallas hospital. We know the family drove across the country and just arrived at the hospital. What do we know about his condition and this experimental drug . Reporter we just received an update from the hospital. Mr. Duncan remains in critical but stable condition. Hes still on a ventilator and dialysis machine however doctors say his liver function has improved somewhat, although they caution that is going to vary over the coming days. Were also learning a little more about this experimental drug hes been given, brincidofovir is given in a pill form two times a week. It was developed to treat other viruses but in some laboratory tests, including one that used duncans blood, it showed promise in fighting ebola. His family a little bit ago walked inside the hospital, accompanied by reverend Jesse Jackson to meet with doctors and hear about his condition. We dont know if theyll be able to see duncan today. One other question because we are still in that critical time period for close contacts of mr. Duncan to potentially develop symptoms. Five dallas schools that have begun using touchfree scanning thermometers on students. What do we know about that circle of people around mr. Duncan and whats being done with them . Reporter there were 48 people who had some kind of contact with duncan, including ten people who had direct contact. Thats seven medical workers and three family members. All of those 48 people are being closely monitored, including temperature checks two times a day, fever, of course, one of the first symptoms of ebola, first indicators of that infection. So far, no one has shown any signs or symptoms of developing the illness. Authorities say this monitoring is key right now to shutting down the potential spread of ebola in the u. S. Thank you very much. Now, as thomas eric duncans girlfriend waits to see if theyll recover after contracting ebola, she and her family are dealing with their own challenges. After being removed from their apartment, 54yearold and three others remain under quarantine at an undisclosed loikz in dallas where Health Workers wait to see if they develop symptoms of the deadly virus. Earlier she spoke by phone with nbcs mark potter. Everybodys okay . Yes. Nobody has any fever or any other symptoms . No. Now, helping her through this ordeal has been her pastor at the church where she still hopes to marry mr. Duncan. Joining me now is george mason, Senior Pastor at Wilshire Baptist thank you for being here. Appreciate it. When was the last time you spoke with louise and how shes doing . I spoke with her last night. She was doing well. She was especially cheered by the news eric was receiving the new experimental drug treatment. Talk about the challenge of ministering to someone our producers and i were having this conversation this morning, about the challenge of trying to minister to someone who people dont even want to go near and to families and people who may be acquaintances and friends. Is there a sense of isolation creeping in among mr. Duncans yes, there certainly is. With louise and the three boys, obviously, they are in quarantine and so they cant reach out. And access is restricted mainly to those who would even want to come in. But as aw our best to move toward her, not away from her. We do serve a christ who moved toward lepers and so we think confidently its important to put the presence of god in peoples living rooms if at all possible. So, being with her yesterday was an extremely positive experience. A way for us to connect again as a church and to make this a little more of a spiritual matter instead of just a medical one. And i think its appropriate you mentioned jesus and lepers because, you know, we all know, unfortunately, human nature isnt always so positive. So, has there been any backlash toward your church or toward you of people who would prefer you not have contact even though, as youre saying, youre just on the phone with this family . Yes. Well, there is a little bit of question about that. I mean, i think its a human instinct to be fearful of what you dont know. And, of course, there are some things we know about this that should make us fearful. But when we have the facts, we know how it can be contained and when its contagious and when its not. Really, theres no problem with our contact with her at this point or my being there with her. And overall, i would say people are looking for ways to move toward and not away, to love and not fear in the midst of this. Would you say the community you minister to is reacting positively or trying to come together in the face of this crisis, or is there a sense, a sort of panic . How would you no, no, theres no panic in the church. The church is trying to be a good steward of a bad thing here. We understand this is a tragedy. But we understand also that its our duty and our privilege to manage it in a way responsible before god and with louise, whom we love and her family. She is a part of our church and so, were being as creative as we can to try to exercise good judgment in this terrible privilege we have. Yeah, indeed. That is very good news, sir. Thank youxb6[ i being heree4nlr george mason. Thank you. Up next, how a judge just handed a victory to the people protesting the shooting of Michael Brown in ferguson. Many americans who have prescriptions fail to stay on them. Thats why we created programs which encourage people to take their medications regularly. 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Fiber one now makes cookies. Find them in the cookie aisle. Civil rights advocates and groups protesting in ferguson, missouri, are declaring a victory for First Amendment after a judge in st. Louis issued a preliminary injunction on monday ordering police to stop using the socalled tooifsecond rule. Police used the unprecedented rule as a crowd control tactic and to ensure curfews during the weeks after the shooting of Michael Brown. Missouri highway patrol, one of the defendants in the lawsuit, filed bit aclu issued a statement that reads in part, quote, todays ruling allows protesters to exercise their Constitutional Rights to peaceably assemble and also allows Law Enforcement to impose appropriate restrictions to control the violence, unquote. Ashley yates is an activist and cofounder of millennial activists united, Grassroots Organization centered in ferguson. Jeffrey, how big of a win is this . To a lot of peoples ear, the idea police can tell to you keep moving your body didnt can be sound right, so how big of a deal was it that you were able to codify that in a courtroom. This is a big deal. The aclu is grateful to the judge. She issued a careful, thoughtful ruling that went through how the constitution protects the rights of protesters. You cant arbitrarily tell Peaceful Protesters they have to keep moving or they cant stop or they cant petition the government. It was a good ruling. I encourage anybody whos interested in First Amendment issues to take a look at it and read it. Its very helpful. Jeffrey, on a practical level, what does this mean for the protests planned this week and weekend in ferguson . Does this mean day or night they can protest and stand still . What it means is if you are engaged in peaceful protest activity, the police cant tell mn arbi keep move, be in a certain area, not exercise your First Amendment rights. This is a very important declaration and reminder that in the u. S. , we always have the right to engage in peaceful protests and let the government know when were unhappy. Ashley, you were actually arrested. We had that picture we showed in the beginning of you in handcuffs being arrested during these protests. Are you from ferguson originally . Right next to ferguson. How much does this rule exacerbate what we know were already tensions with police . They tried to implement a lot of various rules. They tried to implement a noise ordinance, why i was arrested. Explain. Theyre saying if you protest too loudly, they can arrest you . Apparently, yes. They made a big deal out of the drum we had out there, the mega phones we had out there. The night i was out there, it was literally us and our voices. I said, whats the decibel level . No one can tell me but they arrested 13 of us on that premise. Jeffrey, my aclu attorney, does that sound constitutional, you can actually say somebodys voice is too loud during their protests . This is the reason the aclu went to court. Theres an important function for the courts to play. We were telling protesters, if the police tell to you disperse, move, follow the orders of the police in the moment, but rest assured, the aclu will go to court to ensure your First Amendment rights are protected. Unfortunately, some Police Officers bend the rules to, quote unquote, maintain control. The judge came down very clearly and said, thats not the way we do it here. The constitution means what it says. Indeed. Ashley, more protests are planned. In the protests youve been participating in, were police as these have gone on, are they wearing their badges their name fashitag, i should say . When they feel like it. Did you see the wrist bands that seemed provocative, like wearing the Darren Wilson wrist bands . I have not seen them personally. I have seen lieutenants out there without a name badge on, name tags and badges. They told me they were in plain clothes but they still had on their uniform and vests. Do police have a right to enforce the law without making their identities public, without having a name badge on . Absolutely not. And we are making that very clear. Officers have a responsibility to maintain police. Protesters have to follow the rules. But theres a balance. If an individual asks for an officers name, that officer should provide it. We, as you know, complained when there was an officer who used an expletive and said my name is blank yourself. That officer was relieved of duty. We will continue to enforce the rules. The Justice Department admonished the Police Department they have to keep them on. Explain the protest this weekend, hands up united. My group, millennial is part of it. Its called the weekend of resistance. What were doing is calling everybody to ferguson. Were expecting thousands of people, thousands have already signed up. Were going to show our resistance to the systems that have been in place too long. Whats the hashtag . The hashtag the website is fergusonoctober. Com. Rocking the vote, what will it take to get millenials to the polls in the midterms . Well see where the youth tournout will matter most. Ever since darryls wife started using gain flings, their laundry smells more amazing than ever. sniff honey, isnt that the dogs towel . dog noise hey, mi towel, su towel. More scent plus oxi boost and febreze. Every now and then i get a little bit hungry and theres nothing good around turn around, barry i finally found the right snack [ female announcer ] fiber one. I finally found the right snack creeping up on you. Fight back with relief so smooth. Its fast. Tums smoothies starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue. And neutralizes stomach acid at the source. Tum, tum tum tum. Smoothies only from tums. Meanwhile, fidterm elections take place four weeks from today. A new nbc marist poll shows republican pat roberts down ten points to an independent, putting his gop seat in jeopardy. With that in mind, the people behind rock the vote on intent on boosting turnout among the young, liberal leaning crowd with a series of ads to jolt them off the couch and into the voting booth. Heres a sample. Turn down for what turn down for what turn down for what im darren and im turning out for education. Im e. J. And im turning out for marriage equality. Im turning out for reproductive rights. Okay. Perry bacon, nbc political senior voter. You know i had to do that. Lets start off with you, ashley, talk about this plan. You have come out. You have lil john, obviously, a bevy of stars were seeing in that little clip, that little video. Why come out with that at this point . Were so close to the election. Is this something we could have done earlier . Why now . This is actually the start of the push for voter registration. We have two deadlines after this week and the most important thing for young people is make sure theyre registered to vote in advance of the november election. So, this video, which is so much fun and so, you know, we hope motivational, is really geared at making sure people understand theres an election coming. Have you to be registered to vote and you can use rockthevote. Com to find out information. Is there a media buy, tv buy, or web only . We have some of our other ads have a tv buy behind, it but were seeing some incredibly great traction on this already without any behind it. Very quickly, can you tell us the size of that buy and where . n yeah. We are looking to were airing ads in north carolina, florida, georgia, michigan, ohio, pennsylvania, targeted in really collegedense population areas, youth dense areas. And let me go to you, perry, because other than, you know, lil john, i would say theres probably no more in demand figure on the campaign trail than bill clinton. Look behind him as we play this sound bite. Take a look. The reason this keeps happening is that you dont show up at midterms. We get this hugely Representative Group of people who vote in president ial elections. Everybody gets it. Then they get around and say, well, why cant the president fix everything . Oh, i forgot to vote in midterms. Perry, the president trying to make that pitch for democrats to get out. There was an earlier clip that showed him with younger people behind him. Is clinton the guy who can change this cal includes of minorities, younger voters, women not turning out in midterps . Sha how the campaigns are seeing it . I dont think they are. I think they view bill clinton as someone who can persuade swing voters and so on. Keep in mind, 130 Million People voted in 2012. 90 Million People voted in 2010. Thats fairly consistent. Theres a big dropoff in every midterm, not just among young people, but all people overall. I dont think anyone really thinks that the youth vote is going to surge, its going to be that much larger. When the democrats are counting on is theyre trying to find people in north carolina, like a small segment of those people who maybe voted in 2012, didnt vote in 2010 and theyre trying to barrage thm over and over again, you cant drop off this time. The states are north carolina, florida, and wisconsin. Those are states where essentially the democrats and republicans are equal in number. There may be more democrats. The turnout is pretty strong. Democrats can win those states. Its hard to see in arkansas no matter what the turnout is because obama himself lost arkansas in 2012 despite his Strong Campaign strategies in general. And we were just showing some of the big races, iowa, colorado, alaska, arkansas, louisiana, north carolina, kansas, georgia, those are the big races to watch. Ashley, looking at young voter turnout because its consistently poor, dropping from 57. 1 to under 37 . But young adults percentage of the vote is really the thing that seems to swing young people, people we would classify under 30. Only 11 of the vote in 2010 after being 17 of the vote in 2008 for president obama and then 15 two years later. And the research, when you guys are looking at it, why do you suppose young voters walk away in midterms . Well, i think the important thing to remember is that actually youth voter turnout is on the rise and has actually been pretty strong in the last few election cycles. Thing, though, in a midterm is just making sure, and our message is very clear, that it is very important, the local races, that you are turning out to vote for. What happens typically is that theres a lot less investment, a lot less money spent on education in the Midterm Elections and on turning out young voters in term. You have politicians who arent necessarily paying as much attention to young peoples issues. So, our message this year with rock the vote is that youve got to care like crazy, and if you do care like crazy about any issue, the way to have an impact on it is to turn out and vote. Thank you both. Theres no doubt the Midterm Election will come down to voter turnout. Go to our website and click on my one voter challenge and find out how to get yourself and someone you love registered to vote. Sources tell nbc news that british authorities believe they foiled the planning for an attack on the uk that was in its early stages. Authorities there this morning arrested four men. One of whom they said recently returned from fighting with isis in syria. Also, turkeys president says the terrorist group is close to capturing the syrian town of kobani. The u. S. Led coalition launched several air strikes against isis targets near the city over the past two weeks. Turn the trips you have to take, into one youll never forget. Earn triple points when you book with the expedia app. Expedia plus rewards. Great. This is the last thing i need. [ hand ] seriously . The last thing you need is some guy giving you a new catalytic converter when all you got is a loose gas cap. Lets take this puppy over to midas and get you some of that good old midas touch. Hey you know what . Ill drive i really didnt think this through. [ male announcer ] get the midas touch maintenance package including an oil change for only 24. 99. And heres a deal, use your midas credit card and get a rebate of 25. Oil. Tires. Brakes. Everything. Trust the midas touch. Today youre mourning the loss of actor jeffrey holder, star of stage and screen died sunday related to complications from pneumonia. He was 84. The caribbean born actor was a painter, choreographer, director and won two tony awards in 1975 for his work on the musical wiz but if youre an 80s baby, this is how you remember him. Mm now dont you feel good about 7up . Id be surprised if you didnt. Dont you feel good about 7up youre sending tweets like this, jeffrey holder wearing white top hat and tails laughing into the ever after. Rest in peace, good sir. And thank you. Twin peaks is back. Showtime rolled out this trailer announcing a reboot of the series with nine new episodes in 2016. The popularity of twin peaks is reaching new heights. 20,000 tweets and counting and Kyle Mclaughlin tweeted, better fire up that percolator and find my black boots. A child actor of the late 80s, raven simone, the girl we came to love on the cosby show said this on an oprah interview. I dont want to be labeled gay. Im not american. Not africanamerican, an american. And gray lady. This tweet, i can finally get married. Yea government, so proud of you. Now youre questioning her whole post racial identity in tweets like this. Being black in america is a supremely balance of selfawareness. Many sided with the star saying, i personally agree with raven. We are allowed to love regardless of gender. Alfonso ribeiro doing his carlton dance on dancing with the stars. Its not unusual its not unusual to be sad with anyone see, that little treat for you children of the 90s and everyone else who loves the fresh prince of bel air, including my kids. Coming up, is the Fair Housing Act next on the Supreme Courts hit list . Well talk to the plaintiff in the case that could rip the heart out of the fair housing protections. Before earning enough cash back from bank of america to help entertain some friends at the beach. Before earning 1 cash back everywhere, every time. And 2 back at the grocery store. Even before he got 3 back on gas. All with no hoops to jump through. Rafael was inspired to use his bankamericard cash rewards credit card to spend a night watching the stars, under the stars. Thats the beauty of rewarding connections. Apply online or at a bank of america near you. With Mondays Supreme Court decision effectively allowing samesex marriage in 11 states that previously banned, it civil rights watchers are turning their attention to another big case on the court docket. This comes out of texas and centers around one of the big weapons in the fight against housing discrimination. The office of equal opportunity generally defines that as discrimination that occurs when a neutral policy or practice has a significant negative impact on one or more protected groups. Texas officials led by attorney general greg abbott say the theory is unfair and questionable, while a fair housing group, Inclusive Community project, says the theory is needed to fight defacto segregation in the dallas area. While it concerns placement of low Income Housing, a ruling against disparate impact. Julian is president of the Inclusive Communities project which brought the case to court. By the way, we did contact Texas Attorney Generals Office for a statement on the case but we did not hear back. So, explain to us, first of all, the case you guys have brought. Why are you in court . Were in court because the Texas Department of Housing Community affairs has over decades or more allocated the low Income Housing tax credits they administer, the Tax Credit Program n a way that really locates all the low Income Housing under that program not all of it, obviously, but way disproportionately in predominantly areas that are already burdened with lack of resources and all kinds of negative situations that make those communities already distressed. When they put low Income Housing in there, it limits our clients ability to live anywhere else. They have to be basically segregated in that area. They keep locating low income house negotiate same areas over and over again with minority majority minority communities. That makes sense. This question of disparate impact theory, this is what they say, if they strike it down it would largely limit lawsuits against landlords, homeowners to those rare cases it can be proven governments or business hs an explicit intent to discriminate. How difficult would it be for you to prove locating low Income Housing units predominantly in these units is intended to be discriminatory . We brought an intent case as well as a disparate impact case. The judge ruled against us on the purpose case. He said that he didnt think that while we had proved that we that the agency had acted in the way we described, that he wasnt convinced they did it intentionally or purposefully to hurt the people that were involved. And i think this is important because but he had to fall back on the disparate impact theory. I want to say, its not just disparate impact. This gets badly articulated. It is unjustified. What the court found was that there was this segregation was not even disputed by the state, but he said and he looked at their reasons for that, having that impact. And he said, you can do this, you can achieve all your legitimate purposes and goals without having this disparate impact act. Not just a statistical disparate situation. Not just the effect but the fact its unjustified. Let me ask you, what would be be the risk if this were if the Supreme Court were to rule against your position . What kind of Ripple Effect could that have on cases where people are claiming housing discrimination . I think we all agree, who work in civil rights and fair Housing Community, it would be a huge blow to the ability to get at particularly institutional and systematic discrimination. Proving intent on that, actually, if you have to get down into the hearts and minds of decision makers, i dont think thats something anybody wants to get into. Thats the attractive thing about the disparate impact theory. It allows for an assessment of what is the equivalent of purposeful discrimination but say it is but not rule that somebody it doesnt have to personalize it. I think it will be harmful. And i think theres not anybody watching this case that doesnt feel like it will make it much more difficult for us to prove, particularly systematic and institutional discrimination. Yeah. By the way, the Justice Department used that on july 2012 in a lawsuit against wells fargo that resulted in 175 million case, a case against black and hispanic borrowers against countrywide for 335 million. As you said, if you have to read the mind of the person, this seems like it would be weighted towards never finding discrimination, unless it was explicit. Unless theyre going to say, this is the reason were doing it. The truth is, its common sense to say, youve taken these actions. Its having this extremely disparate impact on this particular group. Why are you doing it . If its not justified by a legitimate reason, why would you choose to do the most discriminatory thing you can do . I think those cases you just described are examples of how useful the disparate impact theory, unjustified, is to ferreting out this kind of discrimination in a lot of institutions. Indeed. A lot of people who have been watching this court over the years, not too hopeful. Well certainly be following to see how it turns out. Thank you very much. Thank you. Coming up at the top of the hour, the cdc will hold a live update on the Ebola Outbreak and the u. S. Response. That does wrap things up for the reid report. Ill see you back here tomorrow at 2 p. M. Eastern. Be sure to visit us online at thereidreport. Msnbc. Com. Im only in my 60s. Ive got a nice long life ahead. Big plans. So when i found out medicare doesnt pay all my medical expenses, i looked at my options. Then i got a Medicare Supplement insurance plan. 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Awesome awesome awesome awesome all awesome i love logistics. You are in the cycle and we begin with breaking news on the ebola emergency. The head of the cdc is about to update us from atlanta. This as we learn ebola is spreading globally. Spain has now confirmed the worlds first case of this outbreak contracted outside of west africa. And that brings us to 7500 worldwide who have been infected. Good afternoon. Im krystal ball. As we come on the air, big pharma is rushing production of experimental drugs to counter the virus as two patients right here fight for their lives. Both ashoesh ka mukpo and Thomas Duncan are getting the experimental drug from chimerix. Some are calling on government to ban passengers from new guinea, sierra leone with some caveats. Some saying, we can require a quarantine protocol. A microbiologist from columbia says, while i am confident that the u. S. Can detect and properly contain ip ported cases. Currently cdc has travel restrictions in place but dont expect an all out travel ban. The white house believes its a bad idea but is ordering increased screenings on some flights that land here in the u. S. I consider this a Top National Security priority. We dont have a lot of margin for error. Were also going to be working on protocols to do additional passenger screening, both at the source and here in the united states. The cdc, who again we are about to hear from, has already insisted banning flights outright could actually backfire and exacerbate this crisis. There have been calls to shut off all flights. This would be very damaging to the countries. It would be very damaging to the ability to get help in, for people to be willing to go and to get out. If we make it harder to fight the outbreak in west africa, we actually increase our own risks. We start in dallas with nbc sarah doloff. As we wait for the cdc director, what is the latest on duncans condition