posturing and politics and more room for getting stuff done. >> now, when the governors exited the white house to talk to the press about the meeting, the affair was very cordial and very friendly across party lines. until republican bobby jindal of louisiana took to the microphone. >> what i worry about is this president the white house seems to be waving the white flag of surrender. the obama economy is now the minimum wage economy. instead of declaring this to be a minimum wage economy, i think america can do better. >> here with his take is charlie crist of florida now running as a democratic for his old job. >> joy, great to be with you. congratulations on your first day. >> go florida! you of course were a cone serve active republican governor who left the party in 2010. now that you have become a democrat and you look back at your former party what is your view of their governing philosophy? >> well, i think it's depressing, to be honest with you. when you hear from people like governor jindal just then and kind of in civility, if you will, it's sad really. what i've noticed is that what jeb bush said recently is the republican leadership and republican party today is perceived, if not actually anti-women, anti-minority, anti-immigrant, anti-gay, anti-environment. after a while, there's nobody left. that is not a recipe for success. and it's not the right thing to do. we're a country of great diversity. florida is a state of tremendous diversity, as you know. and the right thing to do is to embrace all and try to do things, as the president was saying apparently earlier today, to work together to do what's right for the people, to accomplish goals, improve education, protect the environment and do what's right for the people at large. and that's what today's republican party doesn't seem to be interested in doing. that's why i'm so happy to be a democrat. >> you mentioned a lot of antis that they have put their foot down. one is unions or union jobs. the governor of south carolina recently said she does not want any unionized plans to be built in her state and volkswagen has in a way responded saying it would be difficult to imagine workers unions approving another plant in another state with unions are not welcome. if another unionized plant wants to come to the state, what's your response? >> we will allow any car plant that wants to come to florida to come to florida. i had a conversation with a wonderfully bright gentleman who has tesla cars. i encouraged him. i said you can build near jacksonville, a great port. down by miami, another great port. port everglades. you can offload these to the caribbean, to south america. it's clean. it's producing a lot of great jobs for an awful lot of people. and it's the right thing todz. any plant would be welcomed so long as it's clean. >> governor rick scott will be your opponent in the next election. he would like to see john boehner move on. give me your take on that. governor scott has been for deregulation insurance market in the state. what do you make of his reversal on wanting federal help in terms of flood insurance? >> well, it's pretty obvious. we're nine months from election day. all of a sudden he's trying to become the friend of the common man and woman in florida. he can do that more effectively over something he has regulatory authority over. and those are the state rates that my fellow floridians are playing for property insurance in the state. now, the flood insurance is an issue where we could see a lot of help, and i agree with that. that's the right thing to do. and people are already trying to do it. like debbie waser m wasserman-schultz. he's letting them go higher and higher and higher, yet he's upset about the president not helping with national flood insurance. it's not right. people deserve better. >> thank you very much. >> joy? >> yes. >> i have a book for you. to joy. god bless you with today's date. >> thank you. i appreciate that. >> now the republican take. kay bailey hutchison of texas. thanks for being here. >> thank you. and congratulations on your new schtick. it will be great to have your own show. >> thank you very much. i really appreciate that. in talking about governors you ran for governor of texas. you have a unique take on the other side of the ledger. give me your critique of what you heard the governor say. what is wrong in your view about his assessment with regulation? >> well, i think right now our country is overregulated because businesses are feeling stifled. they are not hiring because of the instability of our regulatory processes. we have more taxes, more regulations. some of our regulatory agencies are overstepping their bounds. and that's a great cost to business. and it keeps them from being able to hire people because they're dealing with br bureaucratic regulations. where they need to have a message that they want to create jobs, that they want to work with people of all backgrounds to make sure that every person in america is treated fairly. and that's a good criticism of the party that we're working on. >> okay. i want to just ask you one question. we have seen states like north carolina, west virginia suffer real crises in terms of private industry. and the spilling of chemicals or coal ash into the water supply. in those particular cases, would you call for less government regulation or do you think perhaps more federal oversight might help to prevent some of those tragedies? >> absolutely. you need good regulations. you need good regulatory processes. what is stifling business is the overregulation of, say, the banks where you have good regulators and now you are piling on top of that duplicative regulations. it is causing small businesses not to get loans. that's the complaint i hear everywhere i go. those are the kinds of things we have to really stop. and we have to stop the overregulation of some of our agencies that really don't have the power to do what they're doing. like neutrality, for instance, in internet services. we need to free up and have the free market system that has had america. >> to be clear on issues such as chemical companies having to deal with public water supply, in that case -- >> of course. >> okay. >> of course. we need to have common sense. we need safety regulations, absolutely. >> i want to play something the governor of our state rick perry said just moments ago. take a listen. >> if you want to stop this great influx of manufacturing that has potential of manufacturing coming back in the united states over the next decade, let the epa put the regulations on greenhouse gases that will be incredibly onerous. let it continue to strangle the natural resource production on the federal lands. >> senator, when you're talking about rolling back the epa, we were talking about environmental regulation, would you be on the perry side or stand with what you said a moment ago, we have to regulate public resources because then it becomes a public health issue? >> i think you could be on both sides of those issues. i think epa does some good things. i think they have overreached in other areas. talking about water supplies. obviously you want clean water that will be used for the water supply of a city. to say the epa has control over every ditch, and that's what some of these regulations are doing, a ditch on the side of a road and it's just overreach. you've got to have common sense in regulations. i think we ought to be able to drill on public lands because drilling is safe and it gives us energy that is efficient, it is low cost, and it gives us our competitive advantage for our manufacturing companies to move back to the united states. but if you don't use the vast resources that we have, like every other country in the world wants to be able to do and many don't have the rich natural resources that with he do, we have the cleanest, best technology to be able to bring oil into our country or to put the excel keystone pipeline down so we can get our oil to the refineries and the markets. if we stop those things, as is being done right now, we're not going to have the manufacturing base that we all want that create good paying jobs. >> all right. former senator kay bailey hutchison, i am heartened we agree on things related to public health. thank you, joy. >> the pentagon announces plans to slash the size of the u.s. military. they say it's to bring the united states in step with today's modern warfare. later, we talk live with smokey robinson as he is about to be honored for his impact on music history. hey guys! sorry we're late. did you run into traffic? no, just had to stop by the house to grab a few things. you stopped by the house? uh-huh. yea. alright, whenever you get your stuff, run upstairs, get cleaned up for dinner. you leave the house in good shape? yea. yea, of course. ♪ [ sportscaster talking on tv ] last-second field go-- yea, sure ya did. [ male announcer ] introducing at&t digital life. personalized home security and automation. get professionally monitored security for just $29.99 a month. with limited availability in select markets. ♪ every gun that is made, every warship launched signifies an effect of those who are hungry and not fed, those who are cold and not clothed. it is not spending money alone. it is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, hopes of its children. >> that was president dwight david eisenhower. he famously left office warning on of the growth of a military industrial complex that would gobble our national budget and raise the spector of perpetual war. specifically over the size of the military is about to be fought in every state in the country. just over an hour ago, defense secretary chuck hagel unveiled a plan to shrink the united states army to its smallest size since the buildup before world war ii. >> we are entering an era where american dominance in skies and space can no longer be taken for granted. second, defense spending is not expected to reach the levels projected in the five-year budget plan submitted by the president last year. >> here's a quick look at the numbers. in 1945, the u.s. army surged to 6 million active duty personnel. by 2011 #, we had 566,000. hagel's plan would wind down the number to senior between 440,000 and 450,000 active duty personnel. the proposal, "takes into account the fiscal reality of government austerity and a president who planned to end two costly and exhausting land wars." and it's coming amid national security conflicts being fault through the use of special forces and drones rendering some old school tactics and military machines obsolete. it would eliminate the entire wing of air force a-10 tank killer attack craft and the cold war era spy plane. the political pushback has already begun. >> it's all being sacrificed, if you will, on entitles. the president cannot take on mandatory spending. all we have done in congress is basically cut discretionary spending. >> there's a panic over the financial fallout. with u.s. military defense contractors spread out to almost all 50 states. the meeting in washington, d.c. suggest cuts to the national guard ranks would create national disaster. so the question is, does secretary hagel have the credibility, trust and strategy to win what promises to be a bloody budget battle. senior fellow at the center for american progress and california democratic congresswoman loretta sanchez. thank you both for being here. >> you're welcome. >> thank you, joy. congratulations. >> thank you very much. i want to start with you, congre congresswoman. what we just heard were members of the other party saying essentially that the military is being sacrificed on the altar of entitlements. how do you respond to that? >> well, first of all, they haven't even seen the details of the budgets. for them to come out already against it tells you they haven't even had time to do their homework. secondly, it's the job of the congress under article i, section 8. we pay no it. we'll have a process. we'll have hearings. but more importantly, all of the heads of our different departments of our military, our head army general, for example, have agreed to the numbers that secretary hagel and the president have put forward. so, you know, again, they are screaming ahead of time before we even take a look at it. what is the mission westchester the defense departments or services to do and that will drive how many, what the sizes of that military and what capabilities we fund for them. >> and that was a very good question. what is the mission we are looking at going forward. give me your assessment based on a smaller, lighter military, something even don rumsfeld tried to do and was not successful. what structure would we have that is dramatically smaller? >> basically, even if it's smaller, it's more sophisticated. this stuff about world war ii is nonsense. you have a garden reserve, which we know based on what happened in afghanistan and iraq. we're larger than any other land army in the world. so when i hear this type of thing that's just nonsense, the amount of money, even if you control for inflation, is $100 billion more than eisenhower had when he was in office and you had an existential threat. the the mission is to deal with terrorists with a global reach. regimes like iran and north korea. and with rising powers like brazil and russia and china. you're not going to deal with them all militarily. secretary gates said any secretary who recommends sending large land armies into third world countries should have his head examined. i hope we learned that after iraq and afghanistan. >> the defense budget right now is sitting around $700 billion. it's 20 percent of the nation's budget by itself or more than a dozen other countries combined. and republicans actually accepted the idea with the sequester in 2011 of doing cuts to the defense budget. does that signal despite the criticisms we have heard so far an openness amongst some of your gop colleagues to actually go ahead and cut the defense budget, particularly when we talk about the more libertarian leading members? >> well, i have seen very few of my republican colleagues actually want to or come forward and say they want to cut the budget. it's a few. and i've been working with them. but here's the problem when you're only looking at one thing. like the size of the army, let's say. is that if you keep the size up but you don't have the money to train them correctly, to keep training them, to keep them at the level in which we need to send them out, you have a false force. you think you have the large numbers but they're not really ready to go out. that's what could happen. just this past year my 82nd airborne division had to cut a third of its operating budget. so they are training up their second, third and fourth teams that rotate in to be right on top to get ready to go when we want to send them within 72 hours. it's very important we get the size correct and maybe it's less. but they do more. they're better trained. they've got more technical capabilities than just to say we have millions of army people, especially if we don't have the monies to train them. >> and when you look, larry, at the current threat structure, the things that people are concerned about, iran looms large in that calculation. what is a move of reducing the military about our posture of iran? >> basically, first of all, we would be crazy to start a military conflict with iran. we're not going to try to have regime change. you would use your air and naval power. the problem last year was the pentagon pretended sequestration would not. that's the law of the land. you've got to live with that. this year they are pretending it's going away. you can't do that. you may agree or disagree, that's the law. >> it's because my republican colleagues continue to try to move monies around and not have defense take a hit. but the reality is we have less monies, we're out of the two big land wars now. we need to really think about the size and the capability. and it may not -- it's not going to be the same as what we had when we were in iraq and afghanistan. we will change it. and it most likely will have to cost us less because there is just less money. >> all right. thank you both. >> you're welcome. >> thank you. >> all right. moments ago, the white house said it's ready to work with the country's allies to provide financial support for ukraine as the country begins taking steps to get back to economic stability. the offer of support comes as the acting government searches for ousted leader viktor yanukovych. the former president is wanted for the mass murder of 80 people killed during protests there. medvedev called it an armed mute any. a new presidential election is not scheduled until may. to manage your money. that's not much, you think except it's 2 percent every year. does that make a difference? 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here's what i want you to do. reach out to us on twitter, on facebook, msnbc.com, instagram, vine, snapchat, linkedin, youtube, pinterest. i'm not sure we can help those of you still using myspace. use the hashtag reiders. what issues and stories ought to be on our radar? we will bring it to this space every day. and we're going to say power to the tweeple. okay. so a crazy thing happened in los angeles last night that you will not believe. a basketball player played basketball. but it wasn't just any player. it was jason collins, who by taking the court, became the first openly gay player in any of the four major sports. one day that might not be news or a big deal. but right now it's history. collins tried to downplay the moment. >> right now i'm focused on trying to learn the plays, trying to learn the coverages, game plan, assignment. i don't have time to really think about history right now. i just have to focus on my job. >> the 35-year-old played for 11 minutes, hauling down two rebounds and getting a steal. one person who might have been paying particularly close attention in an altogether different pro sport was michael sam, who is at the nfl combine right now in his quest to become that league's first openly gay player. wade davis is executive director of you can play, an organization dedicated to ending homophobia in sports. and an msnbc contributor and fellow at the university of austin. congratulations. it is over. >> i wish. it is important that we finally had jason collins make the team. what does him coming in the uneventful way say about lbgt sports. >> we have crossed the threshold. people say good, but can you still play? >> on the other side, victoria, you had michael sam who over the weekend said he wishes people would pay attention to his play and not pay attention to his sexual orientation. it's not going to happen. we're still going to be focused for some time for these men and any other players who come out. >> it is. first of all, joy, i want to say congratulations on the show. but getting back to the topic at hand, we can't forget. even though we have seen a lot of advancement, the majority of the state prohibit gay marriage and have laws that allow for discrimination against gay folks. living in a red state, i see it firsthand. for those of us outside the beltway, outside of these states, we have to keep a focus what a big win this is. >> we do live in a time when arizona is considering a law that would essentially legalize discrimination in places where people eat or businesses people do, places where people do business against lbgt people. what do you make of that as somebody who is an arizona native? >> yes, i know. i was born and raised in arizona. and the state has a history of passing these discriminatory laws. we saw it with trying to hold back the mlk, sb 10-70. last year the legislature passed an anti mexican-american studies law. i'm not surprised. two things that led to an uptick is janet napolitano left, so there is no check on this very conservative legislature. second, there are term limits in arizona. you have this radicalized legislature. they want to push harder. jan brewer may be interested in getting another catapult. >> so given all of that, given that you have the potential for players to be on teams where they're accepted by their teammates. a poll showed 86% of nfl players. they could literally travel to a state in theory where business could discriminate against them legally. >> i think what's great is that everyone loves sports. arizona has a couple different sports teams. now that sports similar in russia can push back and say, you know what, do you want your sports team to not have their athletes have access to different types of shops and stores and whatnot in the state of arizona. >> do you feel like it's incumbent on the nfl. taxpayer subsidies to speak out on these kinds of issues? sports tends to try to stay out of politics and the leagues are conservative. but should they be speaking out on something like this? >> athletes should, but i don't think the league should because they're a business. their business is sports, right? but i think athletes like a chris collins will speak out. >> we have an election year coming up. is their counterprotection to really walk away from the discriminatory laws. you do have the base of the party outraged by the forward progress for lbgt rights. >> there is pressure. i would not be surprised if she does go ahead and sign the law. the difference from 2010 is you saw a deep mobilization of the latino population. so i think arizona is going to start to turn slowly but surely. the moderate voices will come out. if she does go ahead and sign it, i would be very careful. because the backlash is going to be starting now. >> very quickly, do you see any more players going to come out do you think this year in any of the major sports leagues? >> i would say yes. >> that will be the last word. thanks to you both. >> thanks. all right. sad news out of chicago. harold ramis has died. his film career began in the 1980s with" stripes" and "ghost busters" which made its way to one of the highest grossing comedies of all time. he died of inflammatory disease. he was 69 years old. i don't want to think about the alternative. i don't even know how to answer that. i mean, no one knows how long their money is going to last. i try not to worry, but you worry. what happens when your paychecks stop? because everyone has retirement questions. ameriprise created the exclusive confident retirement approach. to get the real answers you need. start building your confident retirement today. start building your confident retirement today. it treats me with respect.tage. it may seem strange, but people really can love their laxative. especially when it's miralax. unlike other laxatives, miralax activates water to work in 3 ways - hydrating, easing, and softening, to unblock your system naturally. so you have peace of mind from start to finish. what's not to love. it's also the #1 doctor recommended brand. love your laxative. miralax. 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"action!" ♪ that's the unmistakenly smooth tones of smokey robinson. he was introduced in the 60s as smokey robinson and the miracles. highs written and performed a tracks of my tears, tears of a clown and cruising. as a motown music executive he also shepherded the careers of unforgettable artists like marvin gayeand the temptations. the legendary performer joins us today to celebrate the b.e.t. honors today. and barry gordy will be among those absoluted, aretha franklin, artist kerry may weans and ice cube. it features some of today's biggest stars. tamar braxton and mariah carey. it celebrates the contributions of african-american greats tonight on b.e.t. joining me now from los angeles is the mr. smokey robinson. thank you for being here. >> thank you, joy. congratulations on your show. >> you received a lot of awards. you have been kennedy center nominee, grammy living legend award. what makes this special that's coming up tonight? >> well, especially for me because barry gordy is my best friend. he's getting the award. i'm very happy that i was there to present it to him. and when he gets an award i think all the awards that he could possibly get are long overdue because he changed the face of the world with music. and then aretha franklin happens to be my longest living friend. i have known aretha since i was 8 years old. it was just a wonderful night. and i was very happy to be a part of that. >> yeah. barry gordy, aretha, you were talking about a time when there was so much civil up heaval. was it it like making music in that turbulent time of the civil rights era? >> i think it was just something so beautiful to see what music could do. during that time we were trying to pass legislation. we were marching, sitting in, doing all the things we needed to do to bring about equality. and to bring about integration. and the music was just doing it on its own. it was just bringing people together. we would go places where we used to go. the crowds would be separated. like black people on one side, white people on the other side. black people upstairs and white people downstairs or vice versa. eventually they were e all dancing and singing together and having a good time together and the music was promoting integration. >> you talk about the music integrating. there was notice to black artists, your services are no longer needed. it was talking about robin thicke and justin timberlake. you really broke that entertainment color barrier. thank you there's a reverse trend going on in pop music and r&b? >> no, i don't see a reverse trend going on. i see it opening up so it doesn't matter what color you are. your talent gets you to the public and gets you on these tv shows and gets you exposed like that. i don't see it being something negative, though. >> okay. so i want you to preview tonight. this was taped previously. give us a little bit of a preview. mariah carey. other own reverend al sharpton is presenting. give us some of the highlights we can expect tonight. >> you know, joy, i think the entire show is a highlight. it was a wonderful, wonderful evening. they had some wonderful people performing there. see, in a case like that, when you're a performer, show business is a small community. everybody knows everybody basically. you get a chance to hang out with people you haven't been able to hang out with in a long time approximately it was just a wonderful night. and the people who received the awards and the honors were very well accepted and very deserving of what they got. so it's just the entire night was fantastic as far as i'm concerned. >> i have to dish with you. you got violated to michelle obama's 50th birthday party. what is it like to have so much honor and accolade? >> i'm very blessed. i get to live a life that i absolutely love. the obamas are wonderfuling wonderful people. i've been to the white house for many presidents and many times. and when i go there now it's like going home. it's like going to see your family. and not just because they're black people, but just because of who they are and how they treat you. and it was just a wonderful thing to go to her birthday party and be there. >> all right. you know, there's so much more coming up many you're working on new music. tell us about the project you're working on now. >> i'm working on a duets record. i have a wonderful lineup of artists going to participate. we're having a ball making it. i can't wait for it to come out. they gave all the artists a choice to pick one of my songs that they really loved. it didn't have to be one that i recorded. it could be one that i recorded on someone else or wrote for someone else. one of my songs that they really liked. i'm singing that particular song with that artist. >> can you give us a sneak preview of any artists that are going to be on the album? >> i'm not sure if i can do that. >> i had to try. i had to try, smokey robinson. >> okay. >> i do hope once it comes comes out we can talk about them here on the show. >> i would love that. >> all right. next, fighting the war on drugs in the most in efficient way possible. we read between the lines on the capture of chicago's public enemy number one. aflac. ♪ aflac, aflac, aflac! ♪ [ both sigh ] ♪ ugh! ♪ you told me he was good, dude. yeah he stinks at golf. but he was great at getting my claim paid fast. how fast? mine got paid in 4 days. wow. that's awesome. is that legal? big fat no. 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[ male announcer ] find out how fast aflac can pay you they're the days to take care of business.. when possibilities become reality. with centurylink as your trusted partner, our visionary cloud infrastructure and global broadband network free you to focus on what matters. with custom communications solutions and responsive, dedicated support, we constantly evolve to meet your needs. every day of the week. centurylink® your link to what's next. if ...hey breathing's hard... know the feeling? copd includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis. spiriva is a once-daily inhaled copd maintenance treatment that helps open my obstructed airways for a full 24 hours. spiriva helps me breathe easier. spiriva handihaler tiotropium bromide inhalation powder does not replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms. tell your doctor if you have kidney problems, glaucoma, trouble urinating, or an enlarged prostate. these may worsen with spiriva. discuss all medicines you take, even eye drops. stop taking spiriva and seek immediate medical help if your breathing suddenly worsens, your throat or tongue swells, you get hives, vision changes or eye pain, or problems passing urine. other side effects include dry mouth and constipation. nothing can reverse copd. spiriva helps me breathe better. does breathing with copd weigh you down? don't wait to ask your doctor about spiriva. in 2011, when forbes published its annual list of the world's most powerful people, number 6 of 72 was el chapo. head of an international drug empire that's america's number one supplier of cocaine, heroin, and marijuana. sending about one fourth of all the illegal drugs into the u.s. from mexico with revenues of about $3 billion a year. el chapo was finally caught friday by mexican authorities with u.s. help. he was taken without a shot fired in a hotel room in the popular resort city of mazatlan. it was the end of a 13-year odyssey that began when guzman brought out of prison in guadalajara in 2001. according to legend by being wheeled out in a laundry cart. guzman was set to pick up the tab for every diner at a restaurant so no one in the place would say he was there. he reportedly lived in seven different safe houses, connected by a series of tunnels, surrounding himself with 300 armed guards. yet he was reportedly so brazen he sent his former beauty queen wife to a hospital in california to deliver their twins two years ago. forbes writer nathan vardi wrote in 2011, that el chapo had surpassed pablo escobar to become the leading drug trafficker of all time. and the godfather of the drug world. in chicago, where dea special agent jack riley in 2012 called el chapo the most dangerous criminal across all crime in the world. the drug cartel waged a bloody turf war with other organizations contributing to that city's high murder rate. so much so that chicago named el chapo guzman first public enemy number one since al capone who fittingly got rich off a violent trade made possible by prohibition. the u.s. has spent tens of millions of dollars tracking el chapo guzman, sharing intel with the mexican authorities, targeting his money laundering operations and offering a $7 million reward for his capture. and that's just a fraction of the projected $25.4 billion that are budgeted for drug control efforts by the federal government this fiscal year. of that total, 42% will be spent on treatment and prevention. but 58% goes to domestic law enforcement, international man hunts like the 13-year quest to capture one drug lord. meanwhile, no one realistically expects his arrest. hollywood amazing though it is, to make a department in the cartel wars in american cities. another el chapo will surely move in. wart to control the trade on the south side of chicago began as soon as the handcuffs were put on el chapo. and the daughter of muhammad ali on the 350th anniversary with his historic rumble with sonny listin. >> congratulations on your first day. we're so proud of you. >> thank you. >> you killed it. great job. >> cheers! 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[ thump ] to speak with an insurance expert and ask about all the personalized savings available for when you get married, move into a new house, or add a car to your policy. personalized coverage and savings. all the things humans need to make our world a little less imperfect. call... and ask about all the ways you could save. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? right now "the cycle" from studio 3k. chaos and confusion in ukraine. the president is missing. so are answers about what happens next. in politics, kentucky wildcats. who is the democrat positioning herself to take down mitch mcconnell? why doesn't she want any help from president obama? shrinking force. the pentagon may make troops levels the lowest in decades. she is no plain jane. jane pauley makes history. and our local cycle viewers know we like to talk about ourselves. crystal, notice anything different? >> something. >> crisis in the former soviet space. many fear it could be the start of another cold war. there's an arrest warrant now for the former ukrainian president. he's currently on the run, presumably in his stronghold in the russian-speaking eastern section of ukraine. as richard engel explains, he's wanted for the murder of 70 of his own citizens during thursday morning's protests in kiev. >> reporter: now the question is, who fired the shots? who gave the orders? the initial narrative, what we saw here was demonstrators who were armed with bats and molotov cocktails broke out of the square and started to charge the police lines. the police were pulling back and they were firing. this we saw. new video, however, suggests there was also a far more deliberate part of this narrative that the police and security forces were also deliberately firing into the crowds apparently with sniper teams. this video shows a large group of security forces armed with sniper rifles. they were maneuvering calmly, tactically. they were commuting on their radios, receiving information d
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