Who just released an oped in the Washington Post saying this latest trump scandal is a threat they are sworn to protect against. One of those seven, abigail spanberger, will be speaking with lawrence at this hour tomorrow night. But coming up in a moment well talk to two members of the Democratic Caucus in the house about that growing tide for impeachment. Mitt romney tweeted his concerns about what the president is accused of doing and tonight romney spoke on camera. And another republican senator expressed concerns too this evening. Plus former governor bill weld, rick wilson and jen rubin will be here to discuss the muted reaction from the gop. And at the end of the show the rise of Elizabeth Warren in the Democratic Party. Her momentum continues in the latest polls and this weekend both she and joe biden took to the picket lines with striking uaw members. But tonight we start with growing calls for an impeachment inquiry to President Trump, calls that are being zric ing da president ial admission for the record books. The president of the United States appeared to suggest that he spoke with a foreign leader about a political opponent and implied that he wanted that leader, the president of ukraine, to investigate that political opponent. Its a conversation that sits at the center of a whistleblowers complaint about alleged abuse of power within the white house. Now, we know that lawrence typically doesnt play a lot of sound from President Trump at this hour, but this is a remarkable notion, that a sitting president would push a Foreign Government to investigate a domestic political rival. Its a piece of tape that you do actually have to see to believe. The conversation i had was largely congratulatory, was largely corruption, all of the corruption taking place, was largely the fact that we dont want our people like Vice President biden and his son creating the corruption already in the ukraine. Trump and his allies spent days denying that there was any there there and then trump seemed to admit on camera that he had raised the issue in a call with the ukrainian president. And while were at it we should note that numerous Fact Checkers have not found any evidence of the corruption that donald trump claims exists. Trump said at the united nations, it was a perfect phone call. And this morning the president took things a step further. He suggested a link between his administrations review of military aid to ukraine and his efforts to persuade the ukrainian president to pursue damaging material about a political rival. Its very important to talk about corruption. If you dont talk about corruption, why would you give money to a country that you think is corrupt . One of the reasons the new president got elected is he was going to stop corruption. So its very important that on occasion you speak to somebody about corruption. Very important. The president later denied promising aid in exchange for an investigation. But even if there was no promise of quid pro quo its hard to see how trump isnt abusing the office of the president to further his own political future. One more note about the controversial phone call in question. It happened just one day after former special Counsel Robert Mueller testified before congress about russian interference in the 2016 election. Heres how former secretary of state john kerry described the president s actions on morning joe. My reaction is one of absolute shock and amazement that apparently within hours of the or days of the mueller testimony the president is on the telephone putting American Foreign policy in hock while he extorts the leader of another country to russias advantage, i might add. I mean, heres another instance of the president putting the heat on saying to the country were trying to help, resist russia, and he turns around and says im going to take your aid away unless you become the Opposition Research center for my campaign for president of the United States. That is a fundamental profound abuse of power. All right. Tonight nbc news is reporting that House Democratic leaders have called a membersonly caucus meeting tomorrow afternoon to discuss both the impeachment inquiry and congressional investigations into trump ahead of acting director of National Intelligence joseph maguires appearance in front of the House Intelligence Committee on tuesday on thursday. Now, that meeting was announced as more democrats have come out in support of an impeachment inquiry against President Trump in the wake of these revelations about his conversation with the president of ukraine. Joining me now, democratic congresswoman Debbie Dingell of michigan. Shes a member of the House Democratic leadership. And congressman bill foster of illinois. Hes a member of the Financial Services committee, and he does support an impeachment inquiry against President Trump. Welcome to both of you. You for joining us tonight. Congresswoman dingell, good to see you again. Thank you for being with us. You have been youve been cautious about talking about impeachment. You are one of those people who has believed that look, maybe your constituents and their particular needs in michigan are not met by an impeachment inquiry. Now more to talk about on that front. Does that have any influence on your thinking . Whats happened in the last week greatly disturbs me. Id said yesterday and im just going to be very frank tonight, we are a divided country and that scares me. But we cannot be divided on following the rule of law. And what we have heard in the last week is deeply disturbing. As members of congress we have a fundamental responsibility to protect our National Security and to protect the constitution. We have no choice now but to launch an investigation that is going to give us the facts. That is our moral responsibility. So i guess im joining with many of my other colleagues. And i hope my republican colleagues will think about this because they too need to be concerned about rule of the law. When you say this to your republican colleagues, whats the thing about this that pushes you into that camp that says we need to begin an inquiry . Whats different about this . What is it that you want republicans who have until now not budged on this with the exception of one member of congress, what is it about this particular revelation that makes it so much more serious for you and others . So i remember a long time ago not that long ago, but i worked for senator bob griffin. And i was a senior in high school, actually, but at the time the watergate investigation was going on, and i flew back with him from michigan to washington the day he announced that he thought that Richard Nixon should resign. And he had a long talk with me that day about honesty and integrity. But after, when people heard those watergate tapes and saw the facts, republicans, there hadnt been a single republican in that direction. They heard the tapes and Richard Nixon resigned in 17 days. We are being given facts now. We are being told that our president is talking to a leader of another country taking dollars that have been appropriate bid the United States congress to protect us militarily and part of the whole Foreign Policy and is using them to blackmail a president of another country. Thats simply not okay. Congresswoman, you are now saying that you do favor an investigation. What does that mean technically for you . Do you tell youre a member of leadership. What does that mean . Youre having this meeting with caucus members tomorrow. Do you do something ahead of that . Do you tell somebody . I told leadership tonight that i was going to be talking about this tonight. And you know, if you read the new york times, you heard i was going in that direction. But i probably talked to 30 or 40 members in the last 48 hours. There are a lot of members that are deeply disturbed about what is happening. And by the way, we stilt have to make sure. Richard nixon created the epa. He went to china. Title ix. He did a lot of things as this investigation was going on. We still have the responsibility to lower drug prices for our constituents, to get a trade deal thats going to help the striking uaw workers. But we have a moral responsibility to protect our constitution. And our job is to protect our National Security. And when you call for an investigati investigation, in your mind is that the same as an impeachment investigation . Its the same thing, yes. Representative foster, thank you for joining us. Happy to be here. You had been in favor of an impeachment inquiry or impeachment investigation until now. Tell me what you make of what you have learned. I think for most members its not an issue really just of criminality. After all, Michael Cohen is in jail today for things he did at the direction of President Trump. But the way our system works is it is a political decision jointly held between the senate and the house. And we have to have both branches of the Legislature Come together with an agreement that the criminality exists and is of a high enough level that the person should be removed from office so that he can stand trial in the normal criminal courts. That is the tough part of this i think for many members of congress because theres frankly a political danger here. If we vote articles of impeachment in the house and then the senate doesnt accept them, then theres a danger that we will have established the de facto precedent, that it is okay to do this as long as you can intimidate 51 members of the senate into ignoring the problem. Let me just bring you up to speed on more breaking news we have on this story. The Washington Post is now reporting trump ordered a hold on military aid days before calling ukrainian president. This is according to officials. This is just being reported by the Washington Post. It says that congresswoman ding dingdale, it says President Trump told his acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney to hold back nearly 400 million to ukraine at least a week before a phone call in which trump is said to have pressured the ukrainian president to investigate the son of former Vice President joe biden according to three Senior Administration officials. This is the kind of thing that has got people turning their heads, that there may have been a fairly absolute and clear quid pro quo implied by the president if there was aid going to a country that the United States and the congress had decided it was supporting, particularly in some of its efforts to stand up against russian expansionism. And then this was held off and then a request goes to the president of that country. Its sort of unheard of in american democracy. Thats why we have to see the complaint. We have to see the whistleblowers complaint. We have to see the details. And we have to see the potentially multiple actions that the president has taken which have been alluded to in some of the press coverage here. Congresswoman dingell . You know, what people have read that may not understand is that the Inspector General listened to this whistleblowers case, was so concerned, reported to the congress that there was a threat to our National Security and the administration blocked, sending what they found to the country. What is this administration hiding . If theres nothing to hide, they should have sent that last week. Well see what happens on thursday. But this is just very deeply disturbing. And no, none of us that have been sworn to protect this United States of america should be able to turn a blind eye to whats happening here. Congressman adam schiff said yesterday that this becomes a different conversation, this is not just about the president seeking help in diminishing a political opponent, but it also has to do with the idea that we are doing exactly the very specific thing that this whole russia investigation, the whole Mueller Investigation was about. Are we actually inviting a Foreign Government to interfere in our conversations, in our national dialogue, congressman foster . Well, i think that a lot of this depends on the details of exactly what was asked. And i think, again, we just need to get we need to get more of the details on what was requested. Im also very concerned about what giuliani has apparently done in acting as the president s lawyer and directly contacting the ukrainian officials. Right. Which is a little unusual. Right . Because rudy giuliani, congresswoman dingell, is the president s personal lawyer and a lot of the appearances weve seen from him on tv have been related to what the president did as president or not in an official capacity or at least thats been his argument. There could be no argument about a phone call that occurred in the middle of 2019 about whether this is president Donald Donald trump as citizen or donald trump as president. No, there cant. You know what really worries me, if you read the Mueller Report, and very few people talk about this, is that russia is trying to divide us as a country. We are more divided than ive certainly seen in my lifetime. And weve got a a Foreign Governments trying to do this to us. This is a very concerning time. And we are really protecting who we are as americans and the future of our democracy. Congresswoman representative Debbie Dingell who has now said on this show that you will be supporting an impeachment inquiry. Congressman bill foster of illinois. Thank you both for joining us tonight. Thank you. Thank you. Joining us now is bill weld, the former republican governor of massachusetts who is running for the republican president ial nomination against President Trump. Governor weld is also the former u. S. Attorney for the district of massachusetts and the former u. S. Attorney assistant attorney general for the criminal division. He began his legal career as counsel with the House Judiciary Committee during watergate. Governor, good to see you again. Always a pleasure. Thank you. This is new territory. Youve been involved for a long time. And as congresswoman dingell said, she learned some of her lessons about the role of honesty in politics from watergate. So did i, by the way. I know. This is where i was going with this. This is different territory. Do you have examples of, this a president asking no, no. Ive never seen anything like this. Ive never seen such clear and convincing evidence of obstruction of justice as i did in the Mueller Report, the ten instances that they put in that report, that President Trump committed trying to kill the Mueller Investigation. This stuff, calling up the president of ukraine days after suspending 250 million or 400 million in military aid to ukraine, which is engaged in hot war, conflict with our enemy, russia, were supporting ukraine, russias on the other side with firepower. Russia is an enemy of the United States. The president is giving aid and comfort to our enemy russia by trying to pressure another foreign leader to corruptly deliver the u. S. Election in a case where he himself is a candidate by trashing his opponent. There couldnt be a clearer example of the sort of behavior that the impeachment clause in the constitution is aimed at. If we sit still for this, and hes daring us to stop him. Lets be honest. If we sit still for this and say what lovely new clothes the emperor has, we may as well tear up the constitution, the declaration of independence, the pledge of allegiance with the claim that were all indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Thats not what he wants. He doesnt want a country thats indivisible. He wants a country thats divided. And if we put our necks to the yoke here, shame on us. You were referring moments ago to new reporting in the Washington Post that donald trump has had ordered a hold on military aid about a week before this phone call with the president of the ukraine, of ukraine. President trump told his im reading from the Washington Post. Told his acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney to hold back almost 400 million in military aid for ukraine at least a week before a phone call in which trump is said to have pressured the ukrainian president to investigate the son of former Vice President joe biden according to three Senior Administration officials. Not only have we taken a position in ukraine to help them fend off the expansionist tendencies of russia but theyre not in a position to say no to a request made by the the president of the United States. No, i get it. And President Trump is like every dumb criminal defendant ive ever prosecuted. They all think if its not in writing they cant prove anything. Thats not true. Circumstantial evidence is more powerful than eyewitness testimony. Any prosecutor will tell you that. And the president thinks, well, i suspend this aid and then its days later. Not an hour but days later that i call and pressure the president to get dirt on hunter biden and joe biden, who i President Trump think is my opponent. What are we, fools, deaf dumb and blind . The president s in a world of his own here, as is so often the case. So weve seen an increase in the number of republicans sorry, democrats who have come out and said theyll support impeachment inquiry. Representative Debbie Dingell of michigan has just said that this has changed her mind on the matter and that she is going to be supporting an impeachment inquiry. Were not seeing that kind of movement from republicans. Well, you know, liz holtzman, who is a congresswoman on the committee when i worked for it on the nixon impeachment, had it absolutely right. At the beginning there was a trickle. I think at the time the first vote was taken there were maybe seven republican votes for impeachment but not a majority. And then when the tapes came out and it showed that mixon had been lying, Barry Goldwater and carl curtis went to the white house and Barry Goldwater said mr. President , youve lied to me for the last time. Your support in the senate is zero. And until that point there was a clear republican majority prepared to hang out to dry for Richard Nixon. Of course they all lost in next years election, which is whats going to happen to these republicans if they dont change their tune. But i agree with congressman holtzman. It may not be a torrent at first but . Are going to come and as the facts come out assuming the house does proceed with an inquiry, which is all the House Judiciary Committee did with nixon, theyre just in the middle of an inquiry liz made that point another day, that thats what it was. There was no point in the house to impeach the president but they unearthed enough facts so nobody could deny it. And thats whats going to happen to trump. As a former governor, as a former prosecutor, the interesting thing in this case is not just that it may have happened. Its the efforts that the white house and the decht of justice are going to to ensure that congress doesnt find out the information it needs. Thats fishy unto itself. Well, that was also the case in watergate. We subpoenaed all kinds of documents from the white house and wed get six copies. Three of them would have damning information. The other three it would have been whited out. So we knew they were trying to stop the investigation by corrupt means. But the idea that mr. Trump doing this to favor his own prospects in the election is anything other than totally corrupt is ludicrous. Its the definition of corruption. What influence do you have on this . Does this work for you . Are you able to go out there . Do more republicans say to you maybe not out loud but maybe they whisper in your ear that this is getting nuts . Oh, everyone says to me in private this is nuts, what are we going to do. And sometimes i say you might stand up and be counted. And they just say i cant go there, its too great a risk for me. Thats not a profile in courage. It is not. Stand by, governor. I want to just go to the Washington Post. Reporting that President Trump told his acting chief of staff, as i mentioned, Mick Mulvaney, to hold back almost 400 million in military aid for ukraine at least a week before a phone call in which trump is said to have pressured the ukrainian president to investigate the son of a political opponent. Thats according to three senior officials from the administration. Joining me is carol lennic, National Investigative reporter for the Washington Post. Carol, the reporting coming out of the post tonight is fast and furious on this. Congratulations to you and your team for doing it. But it seems that someones talking about the fact that yeah, not only did the president do this but theres context around it that should make it yet more worrying for americans. I think thank you, ali. I think what were learning is in dribs and drabs what i assume must be painful for some people in the white house and the Justice Department, were learning day by day more information about the nature of the president s interest in ukraine and his personal effort to reach down into state and department of defense funding and hold it back from the ukraine while he was, you know, days away from talking to the president and according to our sources pressuring the ukrainian president to investigate bidens son. You know, i read to my audience the key paragraph in this story a couple of times, but i want to go a couple paragraphs lower where it says Administration Officials were instructed to tell lawmakers that the delays were part of a interagency process but to give them no additional information, a pattern that continued for nearly two months until the white house released the funds on the night of september 11th, 2019. Now, carol, this is reporting. So youre not drawing conclusions as to what that means. But that is another layer of this story that is interesting, that its not just that it was delayed. Its that there was some sort of message crafted for lawmakers who might wonder why this aid to an ally, particularly an ally that is fighting off russian expansionism, was delayed. They would have legitimate questions about that and it seems not only was the money delayed but there was a response crafted that might have been less than truthful. Well, we dont know what the truth is yet. We dont know the full truth yet. Weve had some Administration Officials, senior ones, tonight tell us that basically trumps goals were to focus on corrupti corruption. That he was worried whether or not the Ukrainian Government was going to spend the money properly, that it had nothing to do with zelensky. The issue, ali, is really the timing. While on september 9th the whistleblowers complaint is the congress is alerted to that complaint. On the 10th my understanding is that congress is starting to get upset about why they dont have the complaint, the nature of it from the director of National Intelligence and the inspector gener general. And on the night of the 11th our understanding is the aid is released. Its just an odd series of dates. It doesnt we dont know exactly what happened. Its just interesting. Whats also interesting is the reporting a little later in the story that says former National Security adviser john bolton wanted to release the money to ukraine because he thought it would help the country while curtailing russian aggression. But trump said, as you just mentioned, he was primarily concerned with corruption. That theme occurs throughout the story, and it has occurred today several times when donald trump has spoken to media at the united nations, where he said this is all about corruption. He doesnt seem to have a valid explanation as to why joe biden and his son were brought into the discussion with the ukrainian president. You know, i think in the long run, and i dont know that this will answer your question, but in the long run there are a lot of things that we arent fully knowledgeable about yet about this story, and it seems interesting to me that biden isnt particularly thrilled, a candidate for the democratic nomination, is not particularly thrilled about discussing this either and sharing information about what happened with his son, who didnt seem to have any real experience in this field and yet was serving on the board, making a lot of money for a ukrainian natural gas company. Theres something thats not fully transparent about that either. So we have to figure out all of those pieces and its going otake a little while for us to get there. What congress is trying to figure out now is what was the president s goal in pressing a ukrainian president to investigate biden . At the same time he was pressing his own government to withhold funding to the ukraine. Carol, thank you. Came leonnig of the Washington Post on a breaking story that continues to be updated with new information that donald trump ordered a hold on military aid days before calling the ukrainian president in this phone call that were focused on that is the subject of so much attention. Former Massachusetts Governor and 2020 president ial candidate bill weld joins me now. Were going to continue our conversation. Rejoins me i should say. Given this new information, this new reporting from the Washington Post, Carol Leonnig said what a number of members of congress have said today. This could be sorted out with the proper information. If the white house were to actually hand over the information necessary no, but the cover stories that the white house trotted out to try to conceal the corrupt intent of mr. Trump are ludicrous. He was worried about the end of the fiscal year on september 30th in july . Yep. He was worried about corruption in a Foreign Government . Gag me with a spoon. You know, i pointed out earlier today that treason and bribery are serious measures and theyre both in the impeachment clause of the u. S. Constitution. This is the kind of conduct, selling out the United States and our election, the cornerstone of our democracy, its even well beyond anything the framers of the impeachment clause conceived of and theres no particular history or background with donald trump that this has been an area of his in global concern. Foreign corruption . Right. The more the better. The more the better. Its completely ludicrous. And i pointed out today that treason is serious business. Its the penalty for it under criminal code in a garden variety prosecution is death. Its serious business. That doesnt mean im saying the president should be, you know, beheaded like madam dufarge, but its serious stuff. And its quintessentially the type of thing the impeachment clause is aimed at. And the only penalty there is removal, but as i said earlier today the time has come when we have to remove this fellow from office just to save the rest of us. Hes daring us to stop him now. If we dont stop him now, we might as well tear up the constitution and the declaration of independence and submit ourselves to the yoke because thats what he has in mind. He doesnt want an election. Thats why hes canceling his primaries. He says xi jinping. What a great thats a good point. The Republican Party has gone in with the president. Thats a small thing. Him being totally corrupt and trying to sell our election and rig it for his own benefit and you know if he loses that election hes going to say it was rigged against him and try to bring out the military to install him. Hes all but said that. He talks about his third term. He knows thats unconstitutional. Hes just kind of giving us a tickle there, hoping we look the other way. Youre right. Bill weld, good to see you as always, sir. Thank you for joining me. Weve got much more on the breaking news ahead. When we come back well discuss if President Trump finally crossed the rubicon with republicans. Im going to ask rick wilson and Jennifer Rubin next. Rick wilsod Jennifer Rubin next. In only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured and left those doubts behind. I faced reminders of my hep c every day. But in only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured. Even hanging with friends i worried about my hep c. But in only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured. 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Were now entering the second week of news about the allegations that President Trump may have pressured a Foreign Government to go after one of his political rivals. And republicans in congress continue to remain largely silent about it. One of a few exceptions came from utah senator mitt romney who said this to nbc newss garrett haik earlier today. The allegation thats were made in the press are quite serious, and the question now is what exactly did happen . Do you need the transcript . Because the president has already admitted he did have this conversation with ukraines leader and he did talk about the bidens and he did in effect ask this foreign power to investigate one of his pliktolil opponen opponents. And he said he spoke, mentioned Vice President bidens name, but did not ask for an investigation. He may have, by the way. I just dont know whether that was in fact said by the president or not. That was mitt romney talking to nbcs geoff bennett, not garrett haik. Senator Lisa Murkowski was similarly cautious today telling Alaska Public Media that if the president used his influence opressure ukraine it would be very concerning. Now, today Senate Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell broke his silence on the issue, accusing democrats of politicizing the whistleblower process in their attempts to shed light on the allegations. It is regrettable that house intelligence chairman schiff and senator schumer have chosen to politicize the issue circumventing the established procedures and protocols that exist so the committees can pursue sensitive matters in the appropriate, deliberate, bipartisan manner. When we come back, im going to ask conservative columnist Jennifer Rubin and republican strategist rick wilson what it means for the Republican Party to remain silent on this issue and how long theyll be able to keep it up. Yll be able to keep it up plants capture co2. What if other kinds of plants captured it too . 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Because national lets me lose the wait at the counter. And choose any car in the aisle. And i dont wait when i return, thanks to drop go. At national, i can lose the wait. And keep it off. Looking good, patrick. I know. vo go national. Go like a pro. Today republican senator Lindsey Graham told conservative radio host hugh hewitt that america will be blown away by Donald Trumps transparency about his phone call with the ukrainian president where President Trump allegedly pressured the foreign leader to investigate one of his political rivals. I would just urge the president , you know, hes talking openly about the conversation, to release as much as possible. I believe that President Trump is going to blow you away with his willingness to disclose and be transparent about this phone call because i think he did nothing wrong and he has nothing to hide. Get ready for some disclosures from the president that i think will exceed every expectation. Getting ready for disclosures from the president that are going to exceed every expectation are conservative writer Jennifer Rubin, an opinion writer at the Washington Post, and an msnbc krishtd. Also getting ready to be blown away is rick wilson, republican strategy exist a contributor to the daily beast. Hes the author of everything trump touches dies. Jennifer rubin, i mean, that was im just going to leave to you assess what Lindsey Graham just said. Were going to be blown away by the president s transparency and all the detail and its going to exceed expectation. That would be new. Right. And then hes going to show that he really was concerned about criminality in other countries and he really is a dogooder and on and on and on. This is nonsense, of course. Listen, one point that i think has to be stressed again and again, of course they were talking about trumps political opponent because if they were talking about the general interests of the United States they would have sent the secretary of state, the National Security adviser, someone who worked for the government. Trump sent his private attorney to do private business for him. And this was it. Now that we have the other half of it, i think were going to have a daily stream of leaks. I dont expect many if any republicans to come out at this stage, but as we get the drip, drip, drip and as we get through the house process youre going to see i think some very nervous republicans because i think what this newest revelation does is it shifts the political calculus. It is now much easier for the democrats in 2020 to accuse susan collins, for example, of being a toady for a lawless president than it is for her to defend trump as the victim of some kind of smear campaign. The same is true of thom tillis. The same is true of cory gardner. So the political incentive now for republicans to flee is beginning to equalize their aversion to fleeing before. So i wouldnt be surprised if you start seeing more and more little cracks. We saw a little tiny crack with mitt romney but little tiny. There was a lot of qualification there. There was a lot of ifing, if it happened. Lisa murkowski, if it happened, if its true. But let him put out the transcript. But more importantly, let them put out the whistleblower complaint because that has more information arguably than just this one phone conversation. It apparently describes a whole pattern of behavior. Rick wilson, i called you a republican strategist. Are you still a republican strategist . Not anymore. Theres no Republican Party left. Its Donald Trumps party. And its a party today that has a bunch of people who used to be republicans who are now having a competition to see which one can lick donalds boots and give him the highest shine every day. But i think what were really looking at here, i think jennifers right, there is some nervousness building now and there are guys who are actually like cracking the old wikipedia and looking back at what happened during watergate. 1973 the Republican Party was screaming that it was a fake news conspiracy by the liberal media against Richard Nixon. 1974, 49 house members and eight Senate Members lost their seats. So i think theyre starting to realize that maybe this guy whos a reckless daytrading choad finally got out over his skis to the point its going to drag a lot more of them down with him. The reason i ask you the question is on meet the press weve done a lot of information about what happened. I fully agree that one doesnt want to make decisions based on half the information and it would be very simple, rick, for the white house or the Justice Department to not prevent congress from getting the necessary information and, as jennifer says, the whistleblower complaint. But chuck todd was talking to pennsylvania senator republican pat toomey. Lets just listen to what his response was. I dont know what the conversation was. I just told you. He said he did bring up corruption and biden. I mean, was that appropriate again, i dont i dont know the context. I dont know what was said. Look, it is not appropriate for any candidate for federal office, certainly including a sitting president , to ask for assistance from a foreign country. Thats not appropriate. But i dont know that thats what happened here. How long does that go on for and how well does that work, rick . You know, the big thing here is these guys are a whole bunch of profiles in chicken blank right now because all of them are terrified that donald trump is going to tweet at them. Theyre terrified hes going to send up a mean video like he did to mitt romney tonight. A man who is demonstrably his better in every possible respect. And theyre still living in fear of this guy and theyre willing to sacrifice their integrity and their political lives in order to not have him be mad at them. This is a cult that is governed by terror. So its going to last until they start seeing their numbers take big hits. Its going to last until they start seeing that their polling is influenced by him. They should have known already. They lost 42 house members last time. They beat themselves on the chest saying we kept the antibig deal. You lost 42 house member and about 350 other elected officials around the country. Donald trump is a political cancer who is going to devour all of them. Jennifer rubin, from an entirely different perspective there are a lot of republicans, particularly men of a certain age like Lindsey Graham, who should perhaps be more concerned with the fact that we were dangling taking away military aid from a country that is the front line in a battle with a russia that is looking to spread itself as far as it will go. Theres a military nato world peace component to this. Right. The old Lindsey Graham, who was a friend of the dear late john mccain, would have been outraged, outraged by this. Because as you say, ukraine is on the front lines. Theyve already been occupied in part by russia. They are an ally of ours. This whole hullabaloo with ukraine started when the west was attempting simply to establish trade and economic relations with ukraine, which the russians wanted no part of. So yes, this has put our National Security interests behind, oh, wow, again Donald Trumps personal interests. And when you pile this on top of all the other instances in which hes put his personal interests ahead of public interests, whether its escorting people to his hotels so he can advertise them or whether its some other act of public policy, this is a guy who is going to look after himself. We thought he was somehow in putins debt. No, hes willing to switch sides. Hes not even loyal to putin anymore. Hell take any help from anybody he can get. So i think the republicans are going to start running out of excuses as more and more of this comes out. What happens to pat toomey when the transcript comes out, when the whistleblower complaint comes out . Are they still going to stand behind him . Are they going to say, well, it doesnt say quid pro quo or it doesnt say specifically bidens name . Theres going to be very little running room for these people to use. And eventually its going to be closing in on them. And you know wholesale its goesing goes i closing in on . Mr. Pence, mr. Pompeo. Anyone who was in his circle on Foreign Policy, anyone who met with the ukrainian president recently. What about the head of omb, Mick Mulvaney whos the one who sent the message. The message about holding back the the money and not being forthcoming perhaps with lawmakers about why the money was being withheld using the excuse that it was about foreign corruption. I think that i think that nudges us quite a bit more into sort of a conspiracy frame where youve got a very loyal hatchet man of donald trump who is willing to do something the state department didnt want to do and d. O. D. Didnt want to do but Mick Mulvaney went and found a shortcut through omb so donald trump would have the predicate in his extortion call to the ukrainians, he would have the predicate saying the moneys on hold, too bad. Mick mulvaney was a Tea Party Republican who was all about accountability, who was all about washington being run by a bunch of people who of course. Did not believe in congresss authority. To go to suggest that you lie to congress, hell lie to Congress Members to do someones bidding because donald trump your boss is somehow very, very concerned with corruption in the developing or world, or in ukraine, that ones interesting to me. No, the transformation of Mick Mulvaney is one of the people that is the most marked in this entire process. He was a guy who went from being a constitutional conservative to being mr. Trump does your car have a high enough wax shine on it this morning . Its a real disappointment to watch whats happened to him but its going to get worse before it gets better. Jennifer rubin, rick wilson, thanks for joining me tonight. More breaking news. As the tide continues to turn on impeachment the count of democrats who are now for impeachment is growing, it seems with every hour. Thats next. 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And over time, even more people were clear or almost clear. All with dosing 4 times a year. After 2 initial doses. Plus, ilumya was shown to have similar risks of infections compared to placebo. Dont use if you are allergic to ilumya or any of its ingredients. Before starting treatment, your doctor should check for tuberculosis and infections. After checking there is no need for routine Lab Monitoring unless your doctor advises it. Ilumya may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or have symptoms, or if you plan to or have recently received a vaccine. This could be your chance to leave your psoriasis symptoms behind. Ask your doctor for ilumya today, for a clearer tomorrow. Yet more breaking news tonight. Democratic congresswoman Veronica Escobar of texas has Just Announced her support for impeachment. She had previously said she supported an impeachment inquiry and now has moved a step further in light of the new reporting from the Washington Post that President Trump reportedly ordered a hold on military aid just days before calling the president of ukraine congresswoman escobar tweeted, quote, the corruption of this administration has no bottom. From using the oval office for selfenrichment to welcoming foreign interference in our elections twice the level of lawlessness is staggering. Our democracy needs defending now more than ever. Im ready to impeach. Congresswoman escobar is a member of the House Judiciary Committee. When we come back ill talk to a former top democratic aide about the state of impeachment tonight and what mate come out of the Democratic House caucus meeting tomorrow. Tomorrow to managing your fleet. To collaborating remotely with your teams. Giving you a nice big edge over your competition. Thats the power of edgetoedge intelligence. 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Serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. Tell your doctor if youve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if youve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. Dont start humira if you have an infection. Ask your doctor about humira citratefree. Heres to you. Classical Music playing throughout joining us now, former White House Communications director for president obama, former Communications Director for Hillary Clintons president ial campaign. Jennifer, we booked you to talk a little while ago but more has happened since. The flurry of democrats who are calling now for an impeachment inquiry or in the case of Veronica Escobar of texas impeachment, itself. This new reporting from the Washington Post that seems to bring a whole lot more people into this web of whatever happened between President Trump and the president of ukraine. What is your take on it at this hour . It seems to be a watershed moment and i think for a few reasons. You know, prior to this anything having to do with the Mueller Report because it was grounded in the 2016 campaign i think that it came, with some political discounting. This is something very different and this is worse than watergate. In watergate the rnc had some folks break into the Democratic Party headquarters to spy on them. This is taking this is thwarting the will of Congress Taking 400 million that was propose rated by the congress to be used to aid ukraine and trying to leverage that for Donald Trumps personal political gain and doing that in real time. So i think that is why it is a very grave situation. It doesnt have anything to do with 2016. It is just feeling like a very different moment. I talked to a lot of folks on the hill today and i know youve seen some people come out now that are going to support impeachment. They have their meeting tomorrow. I think thursday is going to be a big day when the dni comes up to testify and you may see more happen, more members jump to that. That is an interesting point. The acting dni, mcguire, and the Inspector General where the whistle blower complaint was lodged will appear before the senate Intelligence Committee behind closed doors on thursday afternoon and also appear before the House Intelligence Committee for an open hearing earlier that day. I just spoke to Debbie Dingell a few minutes ago from michigan and she announced on this show, she said we have no choice but to launch an investigation that is going to give us the facts. I asked for clarity and she did say that means an impeachment investigation. Everybody like Debbie Dingell who remembers watergate, like bill well who was on with me who remembers watergate, like elizabeth holtzman, they all say the same thing that the impeachment inquiry is what did it in watergate. It wasnt a house vote. People needed to hear the story. They needed to hear the evidence. They needed to hear what actually happened. And it changed things. It does. Once you lay that all, once you start to lay it all out in the form of a hearing, in front of the congress and the public can hear all of the evidence mounted it has an impact. That is why i think the house should move forward with this and why i discount the view that it would be a mistake for the house to impeach the president because we all believe the senate wont act on it or that the senate wont quit him. We dont know what they will do once the facts are put into Public Record and the house votes on it. You just cant guess at that. This is a hard thing to not take seriously and explain that to your constituents. Jennifer, thank you for being with us. That is tonights last word. The 11th hour with Brian Williams begins now. Breaking tonight, the fallout from President Trumps call with ukraine. Late reporting the president ordered his chief of staff to put a hold on military aid to ukraine at least a week before trumps fateful phone call. Also, the Washington Post reports tonight Speaker Nancy Pelosi is sounding out democrats on impeachment. An all hands meeting tomorrow at 4 00 p. M. And pressure is building at this hour including from seven house freshmen who have defended this country saying these allegations, if true, are a National Security threat. The 11th hour on a monday night starts right now
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