Transcripts For MSNBCW The Beat With Ari Melber 20191108

Investigations into biden and cooked up by mulvaney. There was a conversation with mulvaney and this is what was required in order to get a meeting. They had to deliver an investigation. Vindman saying the bribery was explic explicit. No ambiguity. According to other testimony released today from fiona hill, mulvaney also was all up in the negotiations. Sondland saying he was meeting with mulvaney and they already had an arrangement for the big meeting to be worked out with, guess who, mulvaney. Hill says she was shocked by all of this and the bribery was blatant adding that seeing the president undermine National Security was basically fulfilling some of her worst fears and nightmares. Mick mulvaney who is the person who stepped to that podium and committed the full mulvaney and took it back. Hes clearly a central figure in this whole impeachment probe. He contradict eed what donald trump had been saying up to that point about the infamous call. There was no quid pro quo. There was nothing. Did he mention to me many pass the corruption that related to the dnc server . Absolutely. There was no quid pro quo at all. What you just described is a quid pro quo . We do that all the time with foreign policy. There was no quid pro quo. Thats why we held up the money. To paraphrase a saying the fact checks are coming from inside the white house. Thats a lot of heat on Mick Mulvaney who has pulled the full mulvaney, walked it back and is under demand to explain all this. By the way, you kind of hurt your privilege claims when you go out and do Big Press Conference about the stuff you might argue is executive privilege. A no show before congress. Today he informed them quote one minute before he was due to testify that the white house ordered him not to appear. Meanwhi meanwhile ms. Hill said she spoke with her supervisor who told her the biden investigation should not be any part of this whole discussion and told her to report what she was hearing about this bribery plot the the lawyer who deals with these things and to tell him im not part of whatever drug deal sondland and mulvaney are cook up on this. Congress wants to talk to bolton as he is a key witness about what went down before and after this now infamous phone call at the heart of the impeachment probe. Bolton knows about relevant meetings on ukraine. Its a lot. I want to get right to our power panel on this tonight. Were so excited to have back on our program, former speech writer for president reagan, a columnist for the wall street jou journal and many more things. Nice to see you. Hello. Good to be here. If i sound more excited about peggy, shes the first among equals. Youve been in a white house that battle questions about foreign policy, who was doing what, how high did it go. When you see this barrage of pressure on the chief of staff, what do you think comes next . Well of course the big thing that comes next is the hearings that will sort of orient us by making all of this public in terms of people coming forward you get to know their name, their face. Who they are. As someone who has been in a white house you cant help but wonder if in this case somebody isnt being set up for a fall. You know when white houses get in trouble, sometimes they have way of spontaneously deciding who caused the trouble on the inside and offering them up as lambs. I wonder if were not seeing that with mr. Mulvaney. There may need to be a blood sacrifice. Yes. I think white houses think that way. Heck, human beings in great organizations will human beings in organizations will feel that way. Ill tell you one of the things that i think is happening here. I dont know if you guys agree with this, but on some level im losing track of all of the actors in the drama. Are you finding that at all . Theres a former ambassador, theres a current ambassador. Things will become more definite and more clear and the meaning of what is being said be very vivid to everybody. I think there are two tracks here. I think there is the actual set of facts. If you look at the set of facts its as if were having the thanksgiving parade and trump has gotten onto fifth avenue and he has literally shot a series of people in cold blood and all those people who have been testifying are the parade floats okay . They have stayed in tact. A lot of people have died and a lot of people were there to witness it. Its very clear what happened. Its an open and shut case at this point. The second track, however, is that surrounding those eyewitnesss are Trump Supporters who he accurately said and continues to be the case would ignore it if i shot people on fifth avenue. We see that with his biggest enablers with people like Lindsey Graham where they will say things so untrue that unless you want to live in an alter reality theres no way to take them seriously. Lets play out the parade. Im not a body language expert but i did note some dissent with that view. Well come back to you. To mark, if the difference between that and other controversies may be that Mick Mulvaney wont talk to congress to say the thing he already said in public which is we do it all the time. What then is the priority for the impeecachment investigationo provide due process right styles and move ahead with telling the country with what they think found occurred. I think they indicated they dont want to haggle in the courts about people denying subpoenas. Is it that big of a deal if he shows up or not because he said on television what happened. In terms of blurriness, it can be overwhelming. Whats not blurry is they are all corroborating the same story. The white house is upset over two deep throats. Nixon had one. You have anonymous and the whistleblower. It doesnt even matter anymore. We learned vindman, hill, taylor, sondland, all of them have said the same thing. It doesnt matter who the whistleblower is anymore. Doesnt matter who anonymous is and it doesnt make that much of a difference if mulvaney shows up or not. Let me jump in and say i have good news and good news. The good news is youre thinking theres a lot of different pieces to this, we have break down that shows who are the witnesses to watch. The other good news is before i bring in some more of the testimony, which i want to report on, i give many nunan the promised rebuttal time. Its not a rebuttal. I was thinking as tony was speaking, both of these things which seem opposites are true. One is with the movement and action of people going in and testifying and all that stuff, with a lot of pieces to this puzzle, with a lot of actors in the drama, theres a certain amount of blur that is happening. Theres Something Else thats happening. It is going to be part of the challenge for the hearings next week. It is the hearings are dedicated to proving something that i think most american observers who are watching closely dont even doubt. I dont happen to think republicans and democrats are in deep disagreement on whether or not the president of the United States in a phone call but also in other ways was muscling the president of ukraine to give him a political gift that he desired and what the president of ukraine would get in return for that would be previously c congressionally authorized funds. I have to tell you you got him excited. That isnt hard. I just think this is kind of clear to people. For instance, when this whole story broke with the whistleblower, nobody who supported the president , nobody in the congress came forward and said that doesnt sound like the president. The president would never do that. That never happened. Nobody said that because everybody who loves trump thought, yeah he would do that and those who dont like him, thought hooeed do that. That speaks to the debasement of the office of the president. It is funny and sad that peggy said something that every one can relate to is a lot of folk went that sounds like our president. The sad part to me, trump is just one guy and at some point trump will be out of here. The fact that 40 plus percent of americans in the face of know hes guilty and this is the key thing, they dont care. They dont care. Thats an motiemotion and that overwhelmed 40 of america. Id like to be more optimistic about that. I know why youre saying that. There arent as many people that are willing to give him that free pass and say its okay if you shoot somebody or threaten a president from another country. Well see about a year from now. As far as the blurriness, i think the public testimony helps that. Starting next week well be able to put faces with names and theres no substitute for people saying substance. I think that helps. If john bolton does this, being hawk that he is, hes an established part of that wing. If he comes forward and says this on top of everybody else thats pretty damming. Nixon had one say its a cancer on the prez den sidency. We dont know whether he may turn tout out to be a john dean figure. He may say mistake yes, impeachable, not so sure. All of you stay but one thing we try to do is parcel it out. Theres one more piece of news i want to get your action. This is all about sondland who is a trump person. Fiona hill saying he was in charge of ukraine and he said on Whose Authority and he said the president. This is impeachment evidence because of everything that went down. She saw sondland as target for foreign powers basically telling me i can get you into the white house. All this as he makes the bombshell reversal this week. He started by defending the president but conceded the bribery plot saying he told ukraine no u. S. Aid money without the investigation trump wanted. That brings us up to is it blurry, are there lies . Donald trump backing away as hes done with other people who have served him up to a point because look at this. Donald trump recently described sondland as someone he knew to be a good man and a Great American and now all of a sudden today he says this. Let me just tell you, i hardly know the gentleman. This is the man who said there was no quid pro quo. He still says that. He said that i said that. He hasnt changed that testimony. This is the person who you wrote the art of the deal with. He says i dont know them. I lie for a living. He cant tell the truth. Hes almost literally at this point incapable of telling the truth. What happens with trump is that anything that arises that in any way alters his selfimage, he will reactively come up with something from thin air. Now we have we have 13,000 lies but id like to know how many truths we have. How many times have he hold the truth during the last three years. You think we should count that . I do. You kulds could do it on one ha they are accidental. He has to resort hes like a child he is still the child that his parents dropped off at military school and its like he never grew up out of that. He has to attack people personally. Thats why hes so fascinated with getting names and if he cant attack you personally, he says he didnt even know who you are. Thats to me just an immature way of functioning. He knows the situation he is in. Hes going to call somebody a bunch of names or say ive never met them. I dont know who it is. It just doesnt dawn on him. One of the worst things a human being can be is nonselfaware. This is most one of the most nonselfaware in human history. Those who feel passionately supportive of the president do not think that his enemies are necessarily truthful people. That his enemies are going at him for high minded reasons having to do with protecting the public good. They think his enemies are going after him for merely partisan low political reasons. What do you think . This thing become a big punch. What do you think . I think this is an unusual president who has done what john kelly, his former chief of staff told him he would do if he didnt clean up his act which is summon through his actions an Impeachment Movement in the congress. I dont think it does us any good to make believe that the president is the only one who ever does some wrong here. I think his enemies, to tell you the truth, i think in congress there are a lot of people who have in their rage and sometimes in their mischief towards the president given their own case a bad look to half the country. Adam schiff look likes a partisan guy. He is partisan. Okay, well. My goodness. He is partisan. Hes democrat. I understand that but you have to run Something Like there, an impeachment, proceedsing in way like peter rhodino ran watergate when he was the head of judiciary. He did it in a very careful way that included republicans. He kind of put his arms around him. He wound up getting a lot of republican support for the articles of impeecachment that supported. Those are different republicans. This is a different time. They had been in hearings. You have to do this. You have to be the rhodino. With a sense of sadness. Congressman schiff is a pretty straightforward, nonemotion nonemotional cat. I really appreciate the seriousness that you each are dialoguing with each other. Theres a lot of monologue and a will the lot of noise. This was a dialogue. For anyone at home that heard something and thought i disagree with that, good. There was more than one view on this panel. You couldnt agree with all of it. Its a nice way to start the weekend. Tony comes back with the harlem rapper. Mark and peg gyi hope you come back. Im coming up with my special report connecting the dots we got this week on the bribery. It will explain everything. Also new reports on Rudy Giulianis indicted associates dangling a state visit to the ukraine president in exchange for those investigations. Later i have thoughts on the new claim by anonymous. All that fall back friday with dave east. Its friday and youre watching the beat on msnbc. D uyore watc the beat on msnbc. Man sneezes skip to the good part with alkaseltzer plus. Now with 25 more concentrated power. 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Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms such as fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches or coughs, or if you plan to or recently received a vaccine. Nothing is everything ask your dermatologist about skyrizi. New testimony revealed in the impeachment inquiry today two officials with growing evidence of bribery. Detailing the specific rewards trumps team offered ukraine for political help that trump wanted. All part of the case that trump was demanding a bribe to help his reelection. One aide recounting how she witnessed sondland saying a meeting with ukrainians hinged if they could go forward with political investigations. Another recounting how the deliverable trump sought was the investigation into the bidens. This week is ending like it began with more evidence and more first hand accounts of this bribery plot, but thats not all thats happening. Right now we want to show you how the witnesses are not only adding up and how some witnesses are impacting other witnesses and moving where they stand on this important story. If you divide the camp up between the meet admitting it, its as the accounts go public some of the people who used to try to deny it have been compelled to admit it. You could say things are moving towards the ambassador bill taylors of the world. Thats first person we know of that objected to this thing and away from the Donald Trumps of the world. Let me show you some of our new reporting on this. We made an animated chart. Its pretty clear and its going to get pretty damming. It all starts this summer trump and ambassador sondland pushing and insisting there was no quid pro quo bribery. Even the in private taylor objected. You had those two camps. Bribery and no bribery and boom. The whistleblower joins the bribery chorus filing a complaint about this plot. At that point those were the battle lines. Some people involved said it was a bribery plot. Other people involved denied it. Thats a split case. Back to our chart. Enter trump aide Mick Mulvaney to admit the bribery plot saying famously saying quid pro quo bribery happens all the time. Could that last with the number one stapffer stay in that camp. No. Here you see mulvaney migrating over to the no bribery camp because after that press conference he reversed himself later the same day and now claims no bribery. However absurd that retraction, thats was the last time several top people stood by trump. Here is where things get really ugly for trump. The new testimony reshaped those alliances. Back to our chart. Army officer vindman testifies there was bribery. Add him to that bribery camp and a top official on trumps Security Council joins in to detail bribery. Then here is the most important shift in all the testimony to date. It happened this week. Wait for it. As taylor and other testimony goes public, sondland moves over to join taylor and all these other officials saying yes this was bribery. This is the move. Sondland updating his past congressional testimony and going, all of a sudden, i now recall the bribery plot. Youre now looking at where things stand today. So dmr sondland movered over. On the left thats what you have. You have donald trump and mulvaney who told the country there was bribery only to retract and you have trump. On the right you have a lot of other kredsabcredible testimony. What do prosecutors do with case that has this kind of testimonial evidence . Veteran prosecutor tells us when were back in just 30 seconds. N were back in just 30 seconds. Joining me now former federal prosecutor gene rossi. Thanks for being here. Happy friday. Happy friday. I had panel earlier tonight that talked about how some of this can add up. Id like your analysis as a prosecutor as we put back on the screen the fin irnished product how some of the testimony has realigned. You want me to comment now . Yeah. Okay. I tried cases for almost 30 years and i got to say this, ari, when i was watching your chart on television, i was reminded of many trials i had that i supervised myself and observed and i got to tell you this, 18 usc 2001 is the bribery statute. Its the bedrock of federal corruption crimes and the Public Integrity section if they are not watching your show, they should because you just gave the Opening Statement for a charge against the president of the United States and mulvaney and several others for conspiracy to violate the bribery statute. Here is whats most important about what you put up there. On the left side of that chart, those two individuals and this is important, they didnt give any statements under oath. The ones on the right did. In my experience, when you put someone under oath in front of a judge, a jury, a petit jury or grand jury, amaze things happen. You make a great point right there. We divided the line in thinking about what the claims are. We saw mulvaney move and sondland. Youre adding a detail is every one on the right has been compelled in person to give testimony under oath at this point. Mr. Mulvaney, ducked that today. Absolutely. I know why he ducked it. He knows if he takes an oath and testifies in front of a proceedings whether its a trial or congress, he knows that he cannot tell the truth. He would have to commit perjury because you dont go from saying in front of millions of people in the United States and throughout the world that its done all the time, quid pro quo, arms for dirt and then back away. If they put him in a grand jury right now, he would sing like a bird unless he was intent on committing perjury. Does he have legal exposure . Yes bp theres. Theres a conspiracy. You talked about it in the beginning. Theres a conspiracy among the president , mulvaney, Rudy Giuliani, lev and igor and god knows how many others to engage in a scheme called arms for dirt where the president of the United States is holding up funds to get dirt on his opponent. I want to say this, go back to 1944 for a moment and imagine if president Franklin Roosevelt called Prime Minister churchill and said winston, i have 400 million that i want to give you for food and bullets and planes but im not going to do it unless you give me dirt on thomas in the republican party. He would be impeached. Maybe people need a certain barrage of examples to get their head around it because when you lay it out like that, why we learned what we learned. Why the people on the right are speaking and sayi ining bribery the Others Holding back, its fascinating. Well be having you back. Thank you, sir. Thank you so much. N up ahead, a white house official calling Rudy Giuliani a hand grenade on ukraine. Will he speak to congress . Breaking news on what Rudy Giulianis indicted associates were doing before trumps plot. Thats next. Re doing before trut thats next. 25 cent boneless wings at applebees. Get em while theyre hot. Thenot actors, people, whove got their eczema under control. With less eczema, you can show more skin. So roll up those sleeves. And help heal your skin from within with dupixent. Dupixent is the first treatment of its kind that continuously treats moderatetosevere eczema, or atopic dermatitis, even between flare ups. Dupixent is a biologic, and not a cream or steroid. Many people taking dupixent saw clear or almost clear skin. And, had significantly less itch. Thats a difference you can feel. Dont use if youre allergic to dupixent. Serious allergic reactions can occur, including anaphylaxis, which is severe. Tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems, such as eye pain or vision changes, or a parasitic infection. If you take asthma medicines, dont change or stop them without talking to your doctor. So help heal your skin from within, and talk to your eczema specialist about dupixent. Were back with reporting on this new testimony coming out today with malcolm nance. Good evening to you. What do you see as important in what were learning and what it animates about the history of this whole sorted plot . The most important factor that were seeing here today with the todays breaking news because by the time were finished there will be another one, is that this story goes back much further than this year. I think what were starting to see with the information about that Rudy Giulianis associated lobbied the prooefevious presid to bring up this exact same story before zelensky shows that donald trump was afraid of biden much earlier and said he was going to create this plan to take down biden. Where does that tie in . It ties into Robert Mueller and the entirety of Vladmir Putins plan to undermine the yiUnited States democracy. Donald trump doesnt do anything for slvladimir pumir putin unle been coordinated and agreed upon. We learned the promoscow head of hungary and putin were telling trump their version of what ukraine was which was a corrupt prowestern democracy which they wanted to see undermined. I think this entire story is going back to moscow. That goes to how some of this is so fact free because you have someone who is not interested in facts. He is not Fact Checking that. If hes getting input from other people abroad or Rudy Giuliani or whomever, if it works to his direction then thats all he wants and malcolm i want to put that in the context of your analysis of this new wall street journal reporting. An associate of trumps lawyer pressing the president of ukraine to open these investigations that would benefit trump and then Rudy Giuliani associates may or may not have had this juice but they were paying him and they had dangled a white house visit in exchange for similar probes. This is absolutely fascinating that Rudy Giuliani has had this story out there for a while which means before he went in february and had his associates discuss it, this operation may have been in works for six months, who knows when this real story started. Again, i think it starts with paul manafort. Paul manafort worked for the promoscow government. We find the entire trump team is pitching this story it was Hillary Clinton that actually had ukraine hack the servers in the 2016 election but it all comes back if youre going to hack yourself, you ask a random foreign country to help hack yourself. Its all done to protect Vladimir Putin and to damage ukraine for Vladmir Putin in is an exkgb spy master. He knows Rudy Giuliani is out there doing this. Hes using promoscow oligarchs. Hen he speaks to trump, maneuvers trump into a position where he will get whatever he wants. Thats when you go to our own state department being cut out of the loop that affects u. S. National security. Its breathtaking. Your experience here very relevant. Thank you, sir. My pleasure. Up ahead, a lot of talk about anonymous. I have a break down and how it all addresses the ukraine whistleblower when we come back. E ukraine whistleblower when we come back oh oh oh ozempic® announcer people with type 2 diabetes are excited about the potential of onceweekly ozempic®. In a study with ozempic®, a majority of adults lowered their blood sugar and reached an a1c of less than 7 and maintained it. Oh under 7 . announcer and you may lose weight. In the same oneyear study, adults lost on average up to 12 pounds. Oh up to 12 pounds . announcer a twoyear study showed that ozempic® does not increase the risk of major cardiovascular events like heart attack, stroke, or death. Oh no increased risk . announcer ozempic® should not be the first medicine for treating diabetes, or for people with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. Do not share needles or pens. Dont reuse needles. Do not take ozempic® if you have a personal or Family History of medullary thyroid cancer, multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if you are allergic to ozempic®. 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[ snoring ] [ loud squawking and siren blaring ] only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Warning. What do you do when someone offer you a warning . Could be helpful or ominous. The political world is taking in this new warning alleging a senior official in Trump Administration has a new book called a warning. The book shares its title with the classic notorious b. I. G. Song that covers turf how people that ride with you can turn on you. Its the ones that smoke blunts with you, take picks with you and come and grab your guns and come get you. Aligning trump with an elderly uncle running pantless across the yard. Aides talking about resigning in mass and a selfmassacre. Something they never actually did. These accounts are fair game for media and political discussion, of course. Its striking to see this book which you may hear people talking about arriving now in the midst of the ukraine scandal because this new author taking another tumrn in the spotlight, the whistleblower did not leak or speculate on rebellions that came to fruition. The real whistleblower documented facts. Reported them lawfully through proper channels. Going to the Inspector General who confirmed their job and found the ukraine complaint an urgent concern. That alone gives every one way more confidence in the whistleblower than in anonymous who hasnt identified their full expertise and role and only dealt with a few random editors and the whistleblower identified far more than opinions against trump. It led to the probes that compelled the lease of the call notes corroborating that account. One whistleblowers voice brought forward more. Youve seen them. The failings of diplomats and veterans and officials walking into congress to testify. Let me be clear tonight, theres more than one way to dissent. It just happens that the whistleblowers way worked and drew others to come forward with facts while anonymous has earned more book deals than investigative leads. The book addresses some of this conceding many may see this as cowa cowardice and anonymous may come out at some point. The whistleblower shows you dont have to reveal yourself to make an impact if you know the rules and you know how to work within them. Anonymous is now making a literary splash but the whistleblower is making waves. To quote that same song, it aint a dream, things aint all the what it seem. I wanted to share that thought sints since a lot of people might be discussing that book and i want to update you on something this sunday night when were back with a new impeachment special. Thats available to every one around the nation this sunday night. Last night we did also announce were hosting an event in manhattan to dive into this historic story. You all sold out the general add mission seats within four minutes of the announcement. Congratulations. I will tell you given the overwhelming interest we are making standing room Tickets Available tonight. You can go to msnbc. Com impeachment if you want to come to the impeachment of president trump, the National Debate with chairman nadler. The tickets may go soon. These new standing room tickets at msnbc. Com impeachment. Ill be right back after this with fall back friday. Er this with fall back friday. At bayer, we create medicine that treats bleeding disorders like hemophilia. So victor can keep doing whats in his blood. At bayer, this is why we science. cause no matter how far away for you roam. Ys. When you pine for the sunshine of a friendly gaze. For the holidays you cant beat home sweet home. The United States Postal Service goes the extra mile to bring your holidays home. I am royalty of racing, i am alfa romeo. Spread a little love today spread a little love myy way spread a Little Something to remember philadelphia cream cheese. Made with fresh milk and real cream makes your recipes their holiday favourites. The holidays are made with philly. I get it all the time. Their holiday favourites. Have you lost weight . Of course i have ever since i started renting from national. Because national lets me lose the wait at the counter. And choose any car in the aisle. And i dont wait when i return, thanks to drop go. At national, i can lose the wait. And keep it off. Looking good, patrick. I know. vo go national. Go like a pro. At to cover the essentialsyou have in retirement, as well as all the things you want to do. Because when youre ready for what comes next, the only direction is forward. Its time now to fall back. I am joined tonight by harlem rapper davies. His new album survival is dropping today. A special collaboration with his daughter kyriee who he has sometimes out on tour with him. He plays method man in wootang, an american saga. While dave represents harlem, hes joined by tony schwarz representing manhattan and the bronx. Businessman, former New York Times journalist and the author of five books, Donald Trumps the art of the deal. I have to apologize for writing that book. Well get into that. Tony all good. Whats on your fall back list . I want to fall back on certainty. Whenever youre feeling anxious you move to certainty and its a binary way of thinking. Its good or bad, right or wrong. It rarely, rarely is. Incredibly complex world. I watch it in silicon valley. If you think back not very long ago, the Tech Companies were going to be our savior. The here woes were those who ran those companies. Suddenly they are the devil. Theyre the opposite. Theyre going to bring down civil days and its about nuance, subtlety, finding a place that can hold opposites, that can tolerate the idea of that even though they may conflict with each other. Dave, sometimes people act more certain than they are to appear strong. Do you ever see that . I feel that. Like someone will carry themselves a certain way and act more certain, more successful, more tough than they are and you find out theres more to the story. A lot of pride involved with that and trying to over expert the confidence that might not be there. You may do that to seem more certain. Yes, i agree with that. Any strength over used becomes a problem. It becomes arrogance. What else is on your fall back list, dave . Honestly, i feel like the entire u. S. Government. I just feel like theres never been so Much Division in the country. So much uncertainty, you know, in whats going on and i think its starting at the top, the head. I feel like that needs to become figured out. I dont know exactly how to do it. I think if that is figured out and the vision between the republicans and democrats, if that can come to some type of balance, move some type of balance it will be a much better country to live in. No, its this is exactly the point. We are divided between people that are certain they are right even though only if one of them has to be right, one has to be wrong and thats where you get all of this division. I was just just thinking about a study that was done by a guy named george valian at harvard. Ben bradlee was in the study, jfk was in the study. Just to cut in, tonys the kind of guy hell bring homework to a dinner party. Youll be talking about any normal thing. Theres three studies. Keep talking. Anyway, this is so simple. Out of these 300 people in the study followed for 50 years, the thing that determined most whether they had success in life, their marriages, their careers was what was the quality of love in their childhood . How much good loving did they get . Hes devoted to his daughter. Thats true. Thats where it starts. Actually, were in a moment of were in a time of incredible hatred and a time when the diffuser would be the capacity to tap into your heart. I love you saying that because shout out to dave sr. You brought your parents here today. Yes. Thats a big part of your life. They ride around with me. My two good luck charm, you know . That is you cant imagine what a you can, but what incredible good fortune it is to feel that way. But you know what i think is the problem with that, i feel like people are more into power than love, you know what i mean . I feel like love is like eh, you know what i mean . But having power or control of that, people lean to that more. I feel like thats whats really the biggest problem with everything. Lets get into that because i was listening to the new album dropped today. Listening . I listen. You have a line on there where you say basically you felt or sometimes the line is you needed to get power to make sure you didnt get hurt growing up. Yes. I buy that. Thats real. And that comes from seeing who got power, whether its the stronger dude or whether its someone with a weapon. Like power comes in many ways and i learned that early, you know what i mean . So that i moved through life like that knowing that most power that people have, they abuse it, you know what i mean . Most people when they get power, they abuse it. So i try not to abuse whatever power, whatever influence i have on whoever, you know . Ive never felt more than i do now. I couldnt agree with you more. I never felt more than i do now the truth that power corrupts and power corrupts absolutely. Whether you look at it in me too and all of those men who have had power and use it to abuse women or the way trump uses power as president. The human impulse is a survival impulse. The instinct is to exercise power mostly because you feel weak. The most insecure person becomes the most grandiose person. Lets get into the album before i lose you. People who are sleeping on survival need to fall back. Fall all the way back. He said it. Its based on survival instincts. Survival is the album. How about that . Maybe thats why im here with you. I would be remiss if i didnt mention. I think survival might fare better than some of tonys work. Heres art of the deal. Were going to pump this sucker. What do people need to know about the album . Its my life. I feel like its the inspiration and the motivation for generations to come. I wanted to record and create something that would be timeless and not just live for the moment. Why was it important to put your daughter on it . She was on the cover of one of them she talking. I was like, you know what, come be on. Appreciate both of you. Nice to meet you. Well be back sunday night impeachment, white house in crisis. Sunday night at 9 p. M. Before we go, i want to mention one more thing youre about to see. Tonight marks the 20th anniversary of hardball with Chris Matthews. We want to give a big shoutout to our colleague and leader on this milestone. Im going to say get out right on time. Happy, happy birthday to hardball, Chris Matthews, that whole team. Hardball with Chris Matthews is up next. 20 years of hardball. Lets play hardball. Good evening. Im Chris Matthews from washington. Ill be joined later in the show by a few special guests including one youve often heard me call the queen. We start with the news tonight. Business news tonight. A conspiracy so immense that it includes the president s chief of staff, his lawyer, his designated envoy and a hijacked state department