Of the Mueller Probe itself. Im going to tell you they are fired up because this is a very important story. It is about the integrity of the rule of law and democracy in the trump era in america. So we begin with a break down of that. I should also tell you that later this our we dig into signs that some think that trump is blowing it on impeachment and more on the escalating probe of Rudy Giuliani. And the great Mark Thompson will join us for a special discussion including something important that we dont always get to. Work on diverse if iing americas board rooms. So we have a lot in tonights show. As it is accelerating with new witnesses, against the Trump Administration that orders the Justice Department to hand over redacted materials, as all of that is getting turned up on the white house, Donald Trumps hand picked attorney general is making good on trumps demands. Several of which are illegal if you take trump at his word, he is going to investigate the investigators. So that is something that you may have heard about, and that is going through materials and talking to people, et cetera. This is different, tonight were wading into New Territory for the first time. The word is that probe has turned criminal and that means new powers, new threats, the prospect of new punishments against people who are investigating trump and his aides. And that is the context for this New York Times block buster. The criminal inquiry being opened into its own russia investigation. Im going to leave this up for you. Just look at those two words. Its own. Its own russia investigation. That is where conflicts that are bad for trump and bar are raised. How do they credibly investigate the d. O. J. Who is the target for a crime here . Mueller . Rosenstein . Sessions . Barr . Now he is investigating if the probe caused crimes . Did he now say it includes potential crimes . The answer here is suspicious, right . Here is how the New York Times carefully refers to those problems. Of course under the rules, youre never supposed to investigate yourself. That is why there are special Councils Like bob mueller that are appointed when there is a conflict for the investigation. Few people think that he is using this to investigate himself or his friends and allies. The evidence points to something more like an abuse of Law Enforcement powers to target rivals. The same New York Times articles says the news may raise alarms that he is going after his key enemies and he made clear he sees the typically independent Justice Department a tool to be yielded against his political enemieenemies, that m sound harsh. Some of the most damming evidence comes from trump, just today he confessed those goals again. Terrible things went on for our country and we have a great attorney general, a honorable man. And theyre reporting that theyre reviewing these people in the Mueller Probe for potential crimes. That means that the Justice Department has to of prove the evidence of crimes. So who committed the crime here if there was a crime. Is it rosenstein . Comey . No one is tugting they are automatically above scrutiny, but the president already gave away the gain. As this congress considerats th question of trying to remove a sitting president from office, and using his power to demand informations of a political rival because this follows the ark of the investigations into his rivals. If i win i will instruct my attorney general to get a specific prosecutor to look into your situation. Who specifically are you accusing treason. If you look at comey, mccabe, maybe people higher. This was an illegal take down. Did you discussion joe biden and his family . Legally, candidates, politicians, have all kinds of latitudes for rhetoric. The nude tonight shows this is way beyond rhetoric, and you can see his blots working against his chapters and you can see how his overkill can backfire. The break down of his rooils, one by one, you have james comey, and they went after trumps detractors. Remember, trump fired him and turned the same tactic against comey demanding that he be investigating f investigated for crimes. We know that trumps doj investigated him this year. They have also faced demands on whether or not there was an attempt of comments made in 2016. Those are the demands. The top leaders of the fbi. This news is that there is now a probe. Nose are the people in charge then. And trump thinks that bill bar is helping him do what he asked for. That means invoking him in the plot that brought him so close to impeachment. That brings us too another attempt, the bidens, trump telling a Foreign Government that barr could hem them do that. If you look at any one of these cases in isolation and hypothetically it could look more defensive, but when you put it all together, him demanding the governments gravest powers to investigate and incarcerate, deployed against the people that served in government, to run the probes that he opposes, or, as you see there in read, joe biden to run against him in the next election, they should all be targeted. So now amist Everything Else happening, they run the investigation in the u. S. , trump rival faces a similar process abroad as commanded by trump. So i laid this all out, what does it mean . First, trump is not just attacking the rule of law. His doj is going along with it. That is a straightforward part. Is if youre keeping an eye on the potential impeachment of president , it is becoming common that trying to defend his russian problem and scandal, they would say that democrats could not get him on russia so now theyre trying to impeach him on ukraine. But tonight with this reporting more than ever before this bombshell shows that for trump these are not two different problems. It is all part of the same activity. Using another government to go after rivals. And it althoughly did not happen, but it is also what trump did after demanding that he go after the bidens which did happen. What does this mean . Sometimes he gets the outcome he demanded, sometimes he doesnt. Sometimes he gets the outcome and it blows up in his face if is pretty remarkable when we step back and consider that the two acts that have haunted trumps presidency the most are the times when he was the most effective. Firing comey and demanding the probe that brought him closer to impeachment than anything else. And we know they were not separated at all. Donald trump watched bob mueller testify about firing comby and the evidence of trumps obstruction and thought itt was wrapping up, and then they went after biden before i turn to our experts, i want to tell you something else. When that story first broke, you may recall that there was baele that seemed friendly to bill barr. But dont, he is the one driving the plot. Investigate the investigators and see if they can get away with it. I turn now to michelle goldberg. And the group defending democracy together. Good evening to you, my question to both of you is is this worse than anything we have seen before . Bill. We dont know, we dont know what is being investigated really. There could be criminal accounts by someone in terms of National Security dealing with classified documented and all of that. I do not believe it will be easy to get prosecutors at the department of justice to indict people. They will be targeted, and i think i am not as alarmed about this. I think it is a mistake. He should be impeached for what he did on ukraine. And i hope they stay focused on that. That is the key thing to happen. This could be, well see how this plays out, we dont know who is being investigated for what, and i think it is a distraction. I think they want this out because this is a distraction. Well get into incredibly complicated discussions. They are saying dont investigate anything, but that is not a tenable position. So im suspicious, but as a tactical matter i think people should mostly ignore this until we hear more about what is going on. Michelle, your view when you look at bill saying maybe we should investigate, i think the issue is that we have a system, a rule of law, in this country, and you dont just get a general investigation of people based on your disagreement with them. What we know of his investigation so far is that it has been a ludicrous globe trotting escapade to try to substantiate his theories that would exonerate the election, right . He did s going to italy to find out if popp papadopulous was set up. It is the same thing that trump was demanding when he called the president of ukraine and asked him to open an investigation into this wild fantasy that it was really ukraine and not russia that intervened in the election. Why did trump think that bill barr would do everything he wanted and go after an america that was a huge deal and goes back to ukraine. My point that i will give bill another chance to weigh in, but i think that bill, he may be given too much benefit of the doubt. Let me play a little bit of mr. Barr testifying about how after he took this job, it was trumps personal lawyer, take a look. I had just taken on a big corporate client that was very important to me and i expected a lot of work. So at this point in life, i really didnt want to take on this burden. I didnt want to stick my head into that meat grinder. I said right now i could not do it, my personal and my professional obligations are such that im unable to do it. Im going to go michelle and then bill. I was in ukraine a few weeks ago to investigate some of these corrupt prosecutors, and one of the things they did, one of the things that made them so corrupt is they refused to investigate actual corruption and use the power of their office to target political rivals, right . That is what happens in emerging democracies, failing democracies, that is what we considered to be unimaginable. Right now we have in our government a civil war, an internal civil war between the forces of atocracy. They are going to testify and say what they have seen, and one of the most frightening things to me about this investigation is the message is sends to those people that would uphold the rule of law in the government, right . It says if you investigate these crimes that trump has committed in the past, you risk not just political disfavor, but actual prison. I think we just need to see what happens in this. His globe trotting was ridiculous, nothing was accomplished by it. It would be better for them to say bill bar should not look into it. Lets see if those are being followed. That is something they can find out and something they will know about. His motives could be bad, it is fine to lump it all together as a narrative, but we should not lose sight of the fact of what president is, the president is involved. I think they need to stay focused on what trump did and what punishment he deserves for doing it and what needs to be done to prevent it in the future. What is the easiest part to stop . Impeach or remove trump. Youre passionate about the issues and i want to bring you back later in the hour for a special piece of that. I will bring you back for that, yes . I do, we thank bill crystal and well see him later this hour, good evening to you. I want today bring you in on the next piece of this. I laid out our reporting of why this is so concerting. I bring you in as someone that has been on the prosecutorial side. How unusual is this review. If you imagine a world where there was not a red hot impeach ment going. I dont remember when it started, dont recall Something Like this being ordered. Walk us through how rare and potentially concerning this is to you. I think it of is unprecedented. This is it. We have not been the kind of government that targeted our political foes and used an investigation to get reelected by discounting what had been prove proven in a long investigation. I think it is a way to this community. The igs are conditiocerned they to step on whistleblowers. One of the reasons they say they opened this investigation is because in italy they had information. And they deny having any information that is helpful in the thesis. They say the venue is here in washington dc. And you can start, they say you can start a grand jury. This reminds me of the enmy of the people. The enmy is the hero and the enmy of the people, a doctor tells an entire community that we have to be careful the water is poisoned, but they turn on him for economic reasons and he becomes the enmy emy of the peo he would save. We have seen this president make the enemy of the people the press that goes out and tells us the information. They lie about it and they do everything that would make the enemies proud. They go into the crime hall of fame for running down the just us department. When the ukraine scandal first broke, they rushed out a highly unusual statement, then we have it again, a highly stark and unusual letter from all of the inspector generals saying that the watchdogs think it was wrong. It could undermind what they are doing. And meanwhile, doj says nothing to see here, an independent office is indicting people in ukraine. Do you think there is an effort here by trump to say if i can get bill barr to scare anyone that is going to do an investigation, maybe they will take a step back . I think that is exactly right, but i cant imagine they would discourage brennan from saying what he thought and fighting as a patriot for what is the right view of how america is supposed to act. Look this was to make america graen again . We are considered weak around the world because it is his actions. The delays on calling him out theyre escaping uses. Now he is doing that. Thats what i agree with you. And we try to get a lot of airs on that, and i agree with you on that. Michelle, this is not a tweet, not a announcement. This is a New York Times confirming that what started as a review is now general and people understand that gravity. I think that the Trump Presidency is a danger to the public. In some ways bill barr is more dangerous. He takes Donald Trumps instincts, but has some degree of competence to enact them. And i think the next 12 months in this country will determine if america remains a version that everyone grew up with or if were a second rate bah in a in a republic. I want everyone to have a good right if night and weekend, but i take no joy in seeing this story does move things to a much darker place and it is certainly not a good friday and not good news when you see what is happening in the Justice Department. Thank you so much. Coming up, white house officials admit their losing. They say donald trump is unhinged and says the dumbest things, Rudy Giuliani butt dialled an nbc reporter and left a voice mail with all kinds of stuff. All that plus mark tompson and master p in a special fall back including discussing diversifying americas board rooms. Diversifying americas board rooms. 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Federal prosecutors are subpoenaing the brother of one of giulianis associates. They blew the door off of a safe to get to in evidence this case and theyre probing a half Million Dollar payment made to giuliani. There is the action by contrast, they rushed out that announcement, but they were not probing much of this because they did not think there was a crime. But now, the doj is providing an expansion of resources that could make it go at a faster pace. Well be back in just 30 seconds. And were back with Barbara Mcquaid who wrote a draft, a potential indictment. As well as natasha, good evening to both of you. Barbara, where do you see this case going . Well, the point you know that joi joyce vance and i made is that based on publicly available nichgs you couinformation today. You could charge him with bribery and contempt of congress. I think i would continue to investigate because there is at least smoke that there may be additional charges Like Campaign finance charges. Money laundering, and all of that evidence that you could get on jewgiuliani. Natasha, dealers choice, do you want to speak on that or get right to the voicemail. The famous buttdial . Yes. I think i want to go with that. Barbara has covered that ground pretty well, lets take a listen, this is unusual, but it certainly happens, and Rudy Giuliani talks to all kinds of reporters and he accidentally called back and left a voice mail that became a kind of impromptu surveillance. Here is some and the transcript is on the screen. As a reporter, what do you think of when this happens and what do you glean from it given there is so much intrigue about the way he does business and mixes it with a different client and his access to the sitting president . He has done this before. He has a reputation for accidentally calling reporters and leaving lengthy voicemails with his voice in the background discussing things. It comes at an important moment because he is under so much scrutiny. He has been doing it for the last several years, so the fact that he is talking about turkey it really just drives that home and turkey is particularly sensitive at this moment. One of the things that he was trying to lobby the Trump Administration on was letting this turkish bank case go that was very important to the president. So this is just yet another example of rudy being a little bit of a loose cannon. He got off tv but he is still making mistakes and to build off of what barb was saying before, he has a lot more to worry about. The Justice Departments criminal decision is joining with the Southern District of new york to broaden the investigation of his associates and look at the entire picture of his final dealings, his business ties, and his violations. Barbara, i want to be clear as a human being, anyone can leave this kind of accidental message. There is no great significance to that, but as an investigator, based on what is on the call, do you view this as peermerely slo technology, embarrassing, but or is this potential evidence. Lawyers are sort of all tra careful about these kinds of things. To the extent that it contains anything that could be Attorney Client privilege they would usually package that up and give it back to him. And they would not listen to it, so im not sure what to make of it in light of the fact that he is not a lawyer here, but he is a target of the investigation. Lawyers tend to be ultra careful about these things and they disregard them. Natasha, what do you see as the timeline here when congress will go full steam ahead in the ukraine probe that touches on these allegations around giuliani while he is in a probe. And it seems to put a lot more pressure on that over the coming weeks. Yeah, of course they have experienced this before, right . Wanting to question witnesses in the middle of a general investigation. We experience thad with the russian probe. They want to call witnesses that are enmeshed in things going on in the Southern District of new york. So they want to have a little trouble going on. But the democrats are having no short ang right now of witnesses. They have been very surprised. They have been defying the administrations orders. And they have a whole mountain of evidence and they dont want to stop, they want to keep this parade of people coming to the hill and going for as long as that can to make this the strongest case possible. It is fascinating and a lot happening at once. I appreciate your perspective and insight. Thank you so both of you. Thanks, ari. Up next, reporting on this impeachment, including some stunning quotes out of the white house and Senate Republicans. S e house and Senate Republicans at bayer, we make aspirin to help save lives during a heart attack. 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Expect better. Expect hilton. As evidence mounts, there are new reports that trumps own aides at mitt their losing the current impeachment debate. Its not just with the public. One senator talking about how trump is free styling his own defense saying does he need to be so unhinged . He says the dumbest things and doesnt know when to just shut up. I am joined, as promised by the return of bill crystal, good evening, sir. Thank you, good evening. We look at this as a republican senator and they would rather he say nothing than defend impeachment the way he has. Yeah, i think he is wishing to pretend that if only he department say stupid things they would be off of the hook for having to decide whether or not they have impeachable deeds. It is no longer about him being offensive, but it is a factual record about the good job with these depositions and the republicans there and the democratic counsel, and theyre on a fast track. They will finish within a week or two. Maybe a week of open hearings, i think they will have impeachment on the floor of the house in early to mid december. You think it will be impeached . I think likely. I aagree that maybe some republican votes. Certainly a better chance of a dozen or so republicans. Truly as the senator says, it is unhinged and Lindsey Graham is telling the house how to do their business. We dont like the House Democrats procedures. Youre saying panic over procedures and i want to throw up some of the internets take on this. This is a flash example. They are talking about republicans, democrats respond, their depositions, depositions are always private. From there you get the meme response saying im a congressman, i should be allowed in. Followed by youre on a relevant committee, you are allowed in and it goes on from there. But the party wrote the rules im making a scene to pander to my base. Sometimes what you get hit with on snl can burn in a perception. It is the only thing they can focus on. Even most of them, even the Reasonable Republicans that might defect dont want to defend President Trump on substance. And that is why theyre storming the hearing room and stuff that has its own terrible effects in terms of our effects and how much of a bah in a in a republic we look like were becoming. But the white house, trump, and Trump Supporters are in a pretty serious panic, i have to say. And when you talk privately to republicans on the hill, they will sign on to Lindsey Grahams resolution, it takes them off of the hook for awhile, but a lot of them are privately saying we need to see the facts, but were not saying right now it is inconceivable that we would convict trump. That is quite a statement, and it is coming from bill kristol who knows his way around washington. Coming up, more on whats going on not just in impeachment, but donald trump losing ground on a key issue that were continuing to cover around here. How children are treated and how he is backing down on family separation. He is backing down on family separation moving in. Moving on up. Or making big moves. Deliveries ship free and come with a 100night free trial. No matter your budget. Or your sleep style. We have quality options for everyone. So search and shop. Save and snooze. And rest easy, knowing that weve got your back. Literally. Thats what you get, when youve got wayfair. So shop now. I need all the breaks i can get. Line . Liberty mutual customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. Thats a lot of words. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Why fingerstick when you can scan . With the freestyle libre 14 day system just scan the sensor with your reader, iphone or android and manage your diabetes. With the freestyle libre 14 day system, a continuous glucose monitor, you can check your glucose levels any time, without fingersticks. Ask your doctor to write a prescription for the freestyle libre 14 day system. You can do it without fingersticks. Learn more at freestylelibre. Us red lobsters endless shrimp is back ut fingersticks. For just fifteen ninety nine. Get all the shrimp you want, any way you want em. Like new srirachahoney shrimp. Savory grilled teriyaki shrimp,. Classic shrimp scampi and more red lobsters endless shrimp is fifteen ninety nine. Hurry in. Takin it off road station ted goiwagon, eh . Ip, huh . You know its an suv your family is duckin and rollin. While we stowin and goin but thats cool, i know for a fact your suv does not suck. And why is that . It aint got that vacuum in the back, whoo sucking stuff up what else are we gonna find . We got to go. Vacuum in the back, hallelujah get 0 financing for 60 months plus 2,250 total bonus cash on the 2019 chrysler pacifica. Thats why Xfinity Mobile lets you design your own data. You can share 1, 3, or 10 gigs of data between lines, mix in lines of unlimited, and switch it up at any time. All with millions of secure wifi hotspots and the best lte everywhere else. Its a different kind of wireless network, designed to save you money. Switch and save up to 400 a year on your wireless bill. Plus, get 250 back when you buy an eligible phone. Thats simple. Easy. Awesome. Call, click, or visit a store today. President trump is losing in his stonewalling strategy today and not just in his battles on the impeachment. They are now forced to cough up new details on one of the policies of family separation. Does it different from the cages you put your dogs in when you let them stay outside . Is it different . Yes. In what sense . It is larger. It has facilities. It provides room to sit, stand, lay down. So does my dogs cage. Facing blow back, they said it was essentially over, but the acl took trump to court. Part of that push is working and theyre releasing new details of how many children have been released from their parents. Today the aclus case says it is higher. Can i tell you, it can be hard to appreciate the human reality of these as numbers of another 1556 children whose lives are different now and however much the administration tries to hide the numbers, the facts, or the reality, it is clear many human Rights Groups are staying on the case and we will stay on this story. Now up ahead, something i mentioned earlier in the show, our friend Mark Thompson is here. Our friend Mark Thompson is here ah come on lets hide in the attic. No. In the basement. Why cant we just get in the running car . Are you crazy . Lets hide behind the chainsaws. Smart. Yeah. Ok. If youre in a horror movie, you make poor decisions. Its what you do. This was a good idea. Shhhh. Im being quiet. Youre breathing on me if you want to save fifteen percent or more on Car Insurance, you switch to geico. Its what you do. Lets go to the cemetery skip to the good part with alkaseltzer plus. Now with 25 more concentrated power. Nothing works faster for powerful cold relief. Oh, what a relief it is so fast on a scale of one to five . One to five . Its more like five million. Theres everything from happy to extremely happy. Theres also angry. Im really angry clive actually, really angry. Thank you. But what if your business could understand what your customers are feeling. And then do something about it. Turn problems into opportunities. Thanks drone. Customers into fanatics change the whole experience. Alright who wants to go again . I do i do i have a really good feeling about this. What . i think i forgot to lock my buick. Got it. I bet you lunch you cant make it in there. Im thinkin sushi. Alexa, ask buick to start my suv. You can do that . You can do that . You can do that . Yeah, with a buick. What . At the heart of every buick suv. Is you. Or current eligible nongm owners get 14 to 20 percent below msrp on most of these buick models. About being a scientist at 3m. I wanted them to know that innovation is not just about that one aha moment. Science is a process. It takes time, dedication. Its a journey. Were constantly asking ourselves, how can we do things better and better . what we make has to work. We strive to protect you. At 3m, were in pursuit of solutions that make peoples lives better. A special edition of fall back, im joined tonight by music mogul and entrepreneur percy miller also known as master p and bet named him one of the most influential rappers and black music entrepreneurs of alltime. And one of his more recent ventures rap snacks blowing up. And also joined by Mark Thompson and hes also been on the ground and hes the host of the make it plain podcast. Great to have you both here. Whats on your fall back list . Im glad to be here with a legend. I was really touched by the interview Meghan Markle did with her husband, and it really made me kind of sad. It sounded like even a cry for help. But shes gotten on all this criticism. You know, brits tend to have this idea of a stiff upper lip and youre not really supposed to show your emotion or any of that. So shes gotten a lot of criticism for actually saying shes glad somebody checked on her. And i think thats out of order. Shes not a brit, shes one of us. Master p youve been the public eye for a long time. Sometimes people dont think of you when youre in the public eye as a human being. Youre just kind of content. I think people need to realize people are human, everybodys the same, everybody has emotions. I feel like for her people dont know exactly whats going on with her, what shes dealing with as a mother. And i think people feel like you have to be on 24 7. So i feel like this is probably an emotional time for her, and shes going to have to get used to it and deal with this and kind of not worry about what the people think. What is else is on your fall back list, sir . We need more Companies Like rap snacks. We want to open those doors up for the next generation of thinkers, movers and shakers. So youre saying kind of fall back to so many of these companies that have leadership and boards that dont look like the rest of america. Exactly. Why we cant be at the top of that food chain . And i feel like with rap snacks were opening the doors, but theres so many other geniuses out in the world that have these Creative Ideas that dont get a chance. If you look at it in hollywood, in hollywood its 5 africanamerican latino that own the production. A lot of us are stars and were in front of the cameras, but we dont own the production. Can you tell us a little bit more about that . When you walk into the room to do these deals, are you running into the situation still in 2019 people dont think youre a successful businessman after everything youve done . You know what, i had a situation the other day where i met with the guy and he was like i expected you to be a whole different person because i was prejudged by my music, not the business im creating and to build an empire and to build a generation of welsh for your family. You have to make changes. Nobody is perfect. You know, i put my trust and faith in god. And i tell people you cant prejudge somebody because everybody can change, and everybody can grow. Education is so important to my growth. Even if you look at George Foreman, we go back and look at him and look at him for the boxing. He created one of the biggest brands around, the George Foreman grill and you have to respect that. You know whats great about the grill. Yes. When you tip it, all the juice just runs right out. I dont know why nobody had done that before. You know, with rap snacks, we put a dab of ranch. Let me put Mark Thompson on the front. Have you ever seen rap snacks . No, im seeing it for the first time. Youve got to taste it. Try it. Wow, okay. Delicious. Well, theres an old saying in the newsroom, mark, i dont know if you know it. If youre about it, about it, then say youre about it, about it. Hes got it. Mark thompson, master p, thanks for coming through. A very special edition and something thats nice as we look towards the weekend, youre looking at new york city, inflags waving. I also want to tell you one more thing before we go. We talked to both master p and the creator of rap snacks about the Broader Mission of increasing black owned businesses in the u. S. Which is just at 7 . Take a look. And we wanted to look at being producers rather than consumers. Were kind of controlling and changing the narrative of that, creating ownership but also providing information that people can really follow and say, hey, we could do this as well. Thats real work happening at the ground level. Its business, civil rights, progress for a lot of different communities. There is a longer conversation there, and as we sometimes do, we put up online, its exclusive on msnbc. Com thebeat, where you can find on youtube. And it brings me joy to say all those things together. I appreciate everyone who came and joined us on this friday evening. Dont go anywhere. Hardball with Chris Matthews is up next. Quid pro, here we go. Lets play hardball. Good evening, im Chris Matthews in washington. Tonight the evidence continues to mount on President Trump. Nbc news reporting new evidence tonight of President Trumps quid pro quo with ukraine. Quote, at least three current and former u. S. Officials have all made the same startling admission. A coveted white house visit for the new ukrainian leader had been explicitly conditioned on his agreeing to investigations that could have helped President Trumps
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