Transcripts For MSNBCW The Beat With Ari Melber 20171130

Bob muellers probe is moving closer to President Trump, closer than ever before. We can report tonight that fact because we know now that for the first time there is a leak showing a trump Family Member was facing a grilling from bob muellers investigators. At trumps soninlaw, Jared Kushner. Hes facing a lot of questions about russia. So, i begin with a question about the questions. Is this bad news for kushner, or is it good news . Legally it actually depends. The new reports are that kushner spoke to investigators about mike flynn in an interview that was earlier this month. Flynn and kushner met with the Russian Ambassador at trump tower during the transition and were allegedly brainstorming on how to create a secret back channel for trump aides to talk with putins government. That proposal is suspicious because it allegedly included a discussion of literally using the Russian Embassy for those conversations, but there are no reports that kushner suggested that arrangement for talking to any other country in the world. Sounds bad. We will note as well though that he denies that he was pushing that. As for the interview, a source telling nbc news that kushner spoke to muellers investigators for under an hour. That account would suggest that kushner was maybe a mere witness with a small amount of information to offer and maybe not a focus of the investigation. Theres an alternative and that would be that he is going to get more scrutiny later and right now they just happen to be focused on flynn. The idea would be that these investigators might grill kushner in a longer interview down the line about undisclosed russia meetings, about the trump tower meeting as well. Thats not all tonight. I can tell you theres another trump Family Member under scrutiny. News breaking that house investigators will interview donald trump jr. And theyre going to do it in a closed session next week. There are sure to be questions about how his father coached his defense for the trump tower meeting as well, and if anything seemed to hinder or obstruct the investigation coming from his father, the president , now a question about that was what a top investigator said he posed to Jeff Sessions today. Asked the attorney general specifically did the president of the United States ever take any action that you believed instruct you to take any action that you believed would hinder the russia investigation and he declined to answer that question. Declined to answer that question and thats a weird question to duck. But i can tell you that the doj is informing nbc news tonight that they say that sessions does deny that trump ever instructed him to do anything improper but he doesnt want to talk about his conversations with the president. In just a moment im going to speak to a member of the House Intel Committee who was in those interviews. First im joined by the former counsel and former prosecutor. Jill, your view on what it means if the accounts are correct that Jared Kushner did attend these meetings, it did touch on flynn and it was under an hour. It could be either way and its just very likely that they are taking their time and doing things in order. They need to have all the evidence and all the documents about jared before they start questioning him. So they may be waiting until they have more of the Background Information for him, and we know that they have a lot about flynn so calling him in to talk about flynn would be helpful to them on the flynn investigation. But also think about this, if he has information thats helpful about flynn, its because he was in a meeting where something wrong happened and he is equally complicit in whatever that is. So its sort of going both ways i think. Right. I think you put your finger on it. Maya, thats the big question when you talk about this in terms of, well, what are they doing. The fbi does not just do chitchat. Its not just coffee. They are looking at alleged crimes. Indeed, their purview is a counter intel or criminal operation. So theyre either looking at bad stuff abroad or legal stuff at home if i may simplify it. Let me read what the New York Times is saying happened in this kushner interview. Prosecutors asking kushner about any other interactions between mr. Flynn and the russian government. As another lawyer, we have three lawyers here, what does that mean when theyre then reaching out beyond that original topic . Well, i think the point is there are many allegations that they have to chase down. Theres not just one. They have several possibilities with flynn but also with kushner himself. I agree that we dont know which way this is going but we have to remember a couple of things. One, mike flynn was able to be in the National Security adviser position he was in because of Jared Kushner, because Chris Christie did not trust him. So that is a precursor to that meeting that flynn was in with kushner. The other thing though is if im the fbi and i think there may be a connection with kushner too and Michael Flynn may be cooperating with the fbi or may be considering cooperation with the fbi, they also might want to test some of the things that they think they might have on kushner to see if he says anything inconsistently with what flynn is telling them. Right. And weve been really spellbound all week, jill, about this idea and a lot of indications that they are getting closer to cooperating. One big one was the reporting that flynns lawyers basically pulled out of any cooperation with the Trump White House which may be concerning to the Trump White House dmeepending on what they think trump knows. Would mueller ever want to change the timing here . What can you infer from the fact that while there may be a cooperation discussion going on, they went ahead to talk to kushner and does that put pressure on kushner . It does. First of all, if, as we suspect, there was a proffer by flynn of evidence, it means that they can follow up, they, muellers team, can follow up on anything he said. So if they gave him any clues about kushner, they can certainly question kushner about that and as maya was suggesting, test his investigator os veraci. So again, its putting the pieces of a puzzle together, and you have to start somewhere and build. You want to have documents first because those are the things that trip people up the most. People who dont go through them as closely as investigators do and then they Say Something that they want to be true but that isnt and its proven to be a lie by the actual document. So i think it could definitely be what youre suggesting. Then you have Jeff Sessions, another individual who has forgotten some of his meetings. A lot of them actually. Here he was using that defense a lot in previous testimony. I dont recall. I dont recall it. I dont recall it. I dont recall that. In your testimony today you have stated i dont recall at least 20 times. Is that fair to say . I have no idea. Does that work well if this becomes something that mueller actually cares to pick at . It does not look good. It is not a good look. So first of all, you have Jeff Sessions saying not only in his confirmation hearing that he did not have any meetings with Russian Foreign nationals, but we know he met twice with Russian Ambassador kislyak, he also failed to disclose that on his security clearance form. And then he doesnt remember the conversation he had with carter page at a dinner wherein carter page told him he was going to be traveling to russia. And then he doesnt remember once again what George Papadopoulos says about a meeting that he was in with papadopoulos when he was going to brief some of the Campaign Members around what his conversations were with russians. So thats a lot of not remembering a lot of stuff related to russia. Maya wiley and jill wine bakes, thank you both. I turn to mike quigley who was on that committee and one of the members interviewing today attorney general Jeff Sessions. Let me start with what you can tell us. Did you walk out of there today feeling more confident that everything is on the level and theres no problem or less so . I think i left with the impression that the American Public has two bad choices. Either the attorney general is one of the most forgetful persons who works out of washington d. C. And in our nations history or hes being less than candid with the American Public through his testimony through the senate and or the house. You say and or the house. Do you feel that he was less than candid today . Well, you talked about the i dont recall number that was evident in the senate testimony. I think he easily eclipsed that number today. Really . You think he said i dont know more than 20 times . Its i dont recall, i dont know, i dont remember, the best of my recollection, or he would answer an answer and say, i believe. There were very few definitive answers, yes, no, absolutely. That doesnt engender a lot of confidence in his testimony. Obviously the question that he refused to answer from the ranking democrat was the most troubling one. It wasnt that complicated. There clearly is no privilege there and there hasnt been a privilege evoked. Even if there was a previousivi evoked, he would be talking about something thats a criminal act. The president hindering the investigation would be a criminal act and theres no privilege at all with that. To put it in plain terms, there is no way that you could use even a legitimate privilege to hide an ongoing crime or criminal conspiracy. Youre referring to the fact that he appeared unable, according to Ranking Member schiff, to rule out whether he was part of the investigation. Part of my job is to ask questions and process everything. It is no longer far fetched at this point given what has leaked out that donald trump would be asking senior officials to do things theyre not supposed to do. I mean, that is what jim comey testified under oath regarding flynn. That is what there have been reports about other folks in the Intel Community including folks mem oralizing it. So it really is at this point i think a flipped thing which is why wouldnt Jeff Sessions have run into this by now and if so, why cant he say i may have been asked something inappropriate but i assure you i said no. Clearly the question gave him pause and trouble. Thats not what you want to hear from the number one Law Enforcement officer in the United States, the number one attorney for the United States. It would have been very simple for him to answer one way or another. It was indeed a troubling day in testimony. Congressman mike quickly, thank you for joining us. Coming up, there are reports of a new shakeup in the trump administration. Rex tillerson on shaky ground. What does this do to National Security this many staffing changes. Also, we have reporting on how trumps antimuslim tweets are actually sparking Real Security concerns for americans overseas and condemnation from our allies. He is either a racist, incompetent, or unthinking or all three. It is offensive to all decent british people. Well show you more of that. And we are now, very important, hours away from a vote on a bill that could give the trump family up to a 1 billion tax break, and also as we have meticulously documented betray his campaign promises. Later, Lawrence Odonnell is here to break it down. Youre watching the beat on msnbc. Accumulations up to 8 inches. Dont know if you can hear me, but [monica] whats he doing . [lance] can we get a shot of this cold front, right here. Winter has arrived. Whooo hahaha [vo] progress is an unstoppable force. Brace yourself for the season of audi sales event. Audi will cover your first months lease payment on select models during the season of audi sales event. Were on a mission to show drip coffee drinkers, its time to wake up to keurig. Wakey wakey rise and shine oh my gosh how are you . Well watch this. I pop that in there. Press brew. Thats it. So rich. I love it. Thats why you should be a keurig man fullbodied. Are you sure youre describing the coffee and not me . But he hasoke up wwork to do. In. Fullbodied. So he took aleve. If hed taken tylenol, hed be stopping for more pills right now. Only aleve has the strength to stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. Aleve. All day strong. More people shop online for the holidays than ever before. And the United States Postal Service delivers more of those purchases to homes than anyone else in the country. Because we know, even the smallest things are sometimes the biggest. Donald trump has been tweeting conspiracy theories and attacks. There is a problem in his white house tonight that he apparently does not want to get attention. It is a slow motion decay at the state department beginning with career diplomats thats in the middle of the chart and now may soon reach the very top. Reports the Trump White House approving a plan to fire secretary of state Rex Tillerson, payback apparently for tillerson calling trump a, quote, fing moron as nbc news reported. The president ducking the issue today. Do you want Rex Tillerson on the job, mr. President . Hes here. Do you want him to stay in his job . Thank you very much, everybody. Thank you. That is the tension inside the white house. Historians now saying that the firing of this secretary of state in year one would make this one of the highest turnover administrations on National Security ever in a first year. Shakeups at the department of homeland security, the nsa, now possibly the state department, not to mention the Trump Officials that along with mike flynn that are gone like reince priebus, steve bannon, sean spicer, m. I. A. Thats the decay at the top. Here on the beat tonight we have more to this story. I can report exclusively on a 35year american diplomatic veteran who served under president s of both parties now sidelined. Linda green feld speaking in her First Television interview since leaving the state department is one of many diplomats saying theyre being pushed out, a hollowing out of expertise and she spoke to me about impact. We lose influence. We lose the ability to change peoples minds, to get their support when we need their support, for example, at the u. N. Its our ambassadors that can go into heads of state and encourage them and urge them to support the United States when we need them the most. When we need them the most. And that is a deeper issue here. While these posts remain vacant, a vacancy at the top also could be filled by a republican hawk, mike pompeo, from the cia. Theres reporting that spot would then be filled by trump with tom cotton, which, yes, leads back to russia. Sorry, you cant make it up. As mother jones notes, quote, trump would install one of the most vocal supporters of his efforts to dismiss the Trump Campaign suspected collaboration with the kremlin. A lot of dominos and here to play dominos with me is katherine rand pell and Howard Fineman for huffington post. If you want to be as fair as possible, theres turnover in every administration and the first year is harder than the 4th or 8th. Having said that, what do you see at the state department thats problematic for National Security because were hearing from a lot of people about expertise problems. Well, the entire administration is now part of the gig economy. Everything is a temp job. The thing here with the state department is it stands in the way of how donald trump operates. Everything is about him. Everything is about his ways, his whims, his political wants. Hes the center of attention and anything that smacks of process and expertise like the state department is out the window. Secondarily here, i got to say, maybe we can talk about this a little later, i think this is about to some extent not just iran and the hawks taking over to go after iran and not just about aligning with the saudis and the gulf states over there. I think theres a russia angle to this story that i think we need to get to when you got a minute. I got a minute. You do it quickly and then ill go to katherine. One of my best sources on this story, you got to look at the whole chess board. Rex tillerson is closer to Vladimir Putin than donald trump will ever be. They go back a long time. Putin has a nuanced view of all that. Putin can be a danger to donald trump if he decides to mess around with the investigation. Pompeo and cotton, two military guys, two Harvard Law School graduates, two very respected guys on the hill i think are being put into place to take on the fbi and Robert Mueller down the road on the russia investigation. These are guys that are going to try to undermine it and say that National Security means that it has to be shut down. I know thats a big prediction on my part but im going to make it right here. Thats their role ultimately. Katherine, thats something that has come up in the Nixon Administration and other times, whether you can get the muscle if you will at the intel to override everybody else. Yeah, this administration has been full of so much tumult and turnover and turbulence, its really hard to wrap your head around basically. Its bizarre in that already a year into the administration they still dont seem to have settled on any sort of approach to how we should be conducting Foreign Policy, how we should be interacting with our allies, let alone our enemies. Its hard to get a sense of where things are going forward. But i can tell you this much, given how many people have left, i doubt you that many of those people miss their days in this white house. Howard, you outlined a theory that the president is just focused on himself. Ill play a little quiz with you. Who said, im the only one that matters . You get one guess. I think its beyonce. No, its donald trump. Well go to the tape. Heres who said it. Are you worried that the state department doesnt have enough donald trump nominees in there to push your vision through . We dont need all the people that they want. You dont need to fill slots, dont fill them. Im the only one that matters because when it comes to it, thats what the policy is going to be. Howard . Well look, as i said, hes going to pursue the policy of siding with the saudis and the gulf states against iran. Both of these people, both pompeo and cotton are down the line hawks on that view, totally with the president on it. I think they will reflect the instincts and the moves, the impulsive or otherwise that donald trump has made, will make. But i also think theres a russia angle to this because i think they will theyve not only expressed their skepticism in various ways, they are guys who are respected on the hill, tight in the republican conservative establishment on the hill, not the mcconnell stuff but the hard liners and theyre going to be there to take on and push when it comes to that down the road. Theres going to be a reckoning. I think its an important point as you look around the corner. Katherine, also you mentioned all of the turnover. The other departures here, they really stack up. You look at reince priebus, katie walsh, sean spicer, sally yates, preet bharara, keith chiller. Yeah. Theres so many of them. So few of them have managed to leave with their dignity intact which would also be an interesting point to make here. A few of them, yates, probably comey who is probably the only one who left with a better public image than when trump came into office. Walter shoud, hes another one. But the rest of them, theyve ripped off taxpayers and have been caught for it, they have crossed the president s soninlaw which is not terribly advisable if you want to stick around. Theyve done all sorts of things that have humiliated themselves, that have humiliated the country. I want to thank you both. Up next, this rage towards donald trump is bringing internationally over the retweets of antimuslim propaganda. Donald trump is not actively sewing seeds of hate in our country. Its stupid what he did. Jelani cob on how the fbi may be targeting black activists. Well explain. But they never i always loved me back. Otatoes, so i came up with o, thats good comfort sides with a nutritious twist like mashed potatoes with yummy cauliflower, but youll only taste the love. See what i mean . O, thats good whfight back fastts, with tums smoothies. It starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue. And neutralizes stomach acid at the source. Tum tum tum tum smoothies only from tums you or joints. Something for your heart. But do you take something for your brain. With an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is the number one selling brainhealth supplement in drug stores nationwide. Prevagen. The name to remember. And theres a big difference between ordinary. And the best. Which egg tastes more farmfresh and delicious . Only egglands best. Which egg has 6 times more vitamin d, 10 times more vitamin e, and 25 less saturated fat . Only egglands best. Which egg is so special, id never serve my family anything else . For me, its only egglands best. Better taste, better nutrition, better eggs. Firstthen you put yourselfareer. Through school. Got the degree. Youve given it your all, to reach the goals youve set. Dont let student debt hold you back. Refinancing Student Loans with sofi can save thousands. So you can get where youve always been headed. Sooner. See how much you can save with sofi. The leader in student loan refinancing. Words have consequences, and tonight President Trump facing an unusual and Large International backlash to those antimuslim tweets that he shared and that have also formally raised security concerns for americans overseas. It all stems from him posting and retweeting these antimuslim videos which came from the leader of a far right group called britain first. The u. S. State department now warning the white house that his actions, those tweets, could actually endanger the security of u. S. Officials abroad. Concerns also in the british house of commons. This is what we were showing you a little earlier in the broadcast. Its really extraordinary. A display of lawmakers going out of their way to specifically condemn an american president. By sharing it, he is either a racist, incompetent, or unthinking or all three. Not just offensive to british people of muslim heritage, it is offensive to all decent british people. Tweets by extremist offensive and racist organization is not fitting of someone holding such high office and must be condemned. Donald trump is not actively sowing seeds of hatred in our countr country. The president was stupid in what they did. Their blunt legislature. British Prime Minister teresa may who is usually a trump ally calling out his actions today. The fact that we Work Together does not mean that were afraid to say when we think the United States have got it wrong and be very clear with them, and im very clear that retweeting from britain first was the wrong thing to do. [ applause ] two International Experts on this transatlantic issue. Nile, how unusual is this level of specific rebuke from so many people across the political spectrum there in the u. K. . Its absolutely extraordinary, ari. I mean, this is yet again an instance where we have to remind ourselves during the Trump Presidency this is not normal. You played the Prime Ministers remarks there, you played some of the members of parliaments remarks. We had today two members of the British Parliament say that if donald trump visits the United Kingdom, he should be arrested for incitement. This is members of parliament in a stalwart u. S. Ally saying that about an american president. Again, its just an extraordinary incident that were facing here. You mentioned the idea of what would happen if trump goes to the u. K. After doing this and not taking responsibility, certainly not apologizing for it. Steve, take a listen to that. The United States should not be afforded a state visit to the United Kingdom. One of the key dangers is that we have absolutely no idea of what the president will state or tweet next. We cannot simply roll out a red carpet and give a platform for the president of the United States to sow discord in our communities. Action is needed now. Not a slap on the wrist. Cancel the state visit. Steve clemens, from a Foreign Policy perspective, is this bad for america . As nile said, its unprecedentedly bad. This is a situation in which the United States and the United Kingdom and their alliance is one of the most vital and important in the world and donald trump has just ripped the heart and soul out of it. No matter what we do as partners in the future, there will be no enthusiasm for it. There will be no energy of the british people for projects that the United States needs british support for despite their own interests. Its an unbelievable moment. Weve seen donald trump take what happened in charlottesville and send it global. Steve, you talk about charlottesville which is a place where there was some free speech and there was also hate crimes and also violence and there was also, as mentioned earlier in this broadcast, the notion of incitement because there are some things you cannot say if they get too close to a conspiracy to advance violence and it is that subject which also arose today. Take a listen here. This is a conservative leader. This is on the right side of the political spectrum in the u. K. On those issues. If twitter is genuine in its commitment to fight hate crime online it should have no he is tense in taking down the twitter account of the First Citizen of the u. S. As it would any other citizen of the world who pedalled such hate crime. The First Citizen being a reference to the president posting these kind of messages. Its outrageous and i think the president of the United States right now is giving a wink and nod to hul begans who are racists and bigots and this is something weve seen happen in the United States. One of the advisers to the Trump Campaign is Frank Gaffney who is a very well known antimuslim bigot who has run campaigns against previous appointees who were muslims. He and pam gellar. Theyre close to people like mike pompeo. This is not an anomaly for donald trump. This is part of the composite of personalities around him. I think many of us are just unwilling we shouldnt accept that fact but its been part of the equation of the Trump Presidency so far. Theyve kept it buried but now we see an explosion come out and have global consequences. Global indeed. Steve clemens and nile thank you both. Big news on this show last night alleging serious concerns emanating from the white house. I know that two different people from the white house or at least saying they were from the white house and that turned out to be a white house number have called somebody i know in the last several weeks to say we are deeply concerned about his Mental Health. New yorkers jelani cobb will join me on that and other issues. Also this trump backed tax plan could save his family a billion. What happened to the middle class that was supposed to get taken care of . Lawrence odonnell about to tell us. He is live next. It lets you know where your data lives, down to the very server. It keeps your insights from prying eyes, so theyre used by no one else but you. It. Is. The cloud. The ibm cloud. The cloud thats designed for your data. Ai ready. Secure to the core. The ibm cloud is the cloud for business. Yours. Was supposed to be a wake reup call for our government . Sh people all across the country lost their savings, their pensions and their jobs. Im tom steyer and it turned out that the system that had benefited people like me who are well off, was, in fact, stacked against everyone else. Its why i left my Investment Firm and resolved to use my savings for the public good. But here we are nine years later and this president and the Republican Congress are making a bad situation even worse. They wont tell you that their so called tax reform plan is really for the wealthy and big corporations, while hurting the middle class. It blows up the deficit and that means fewer investments in education, health care and job creation. Its up to all of us to stand up to this president. Not just for impeachable offenses, but also to demand a country where everyone has a real chance to succeed. Join us. Your voice matters. Let out your inner child at the lexus december to remember sales event. Lease the 2018 es 350 for 319 a month for 36 months. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. So we know how to cover almost weve anything. St everything even a redhot mascot. [mascot] heyoooo whoop, whoop [crowd 1] hey, youre on fire [mascot] you bet i am [crowd 2] dude, youre on fire [mascot] oh, yeah [crowd 3] no, youre on fire look behind you. [mascot] im cool. Im cool. [burke] thats one way to fire up the crowd. But we covered it. Talk to farmers. We know a thing or two because weve seen a thing or two. We are farmers. Bumpadum, bumbumbumbum stuff happens. When you have a cold. [ sneeze ] shut down cold symptoms fast with maximum strength alka seltzer plus liquid gels. Tired of sore throat lozenges that only last a short time . Try new alkaseltzer plus sore throat relief. The melts dissolve quickly. Plus, the powerful pain reliever provides longlasting relief for up to six hours. Try new alkaseltzer plus. Mr. Sanders met me quote you, senator rubio. Tell me in this quote is right. That w at the debate over the tax bill on the senate floor. Bernie sanders there. And today john mccain says hell back the bill. Thats a key move of course because republicans can only afford to lose two votes. Mccain has blocked trumps bills before, famously on obamacare. But today mccain argued that process is different than taxes saying, on this bill tsenate usd regular order for the normal legislative process and a markup in the Senate Finance committee. My next guest knows that process well. Lawrence odonnell was the top staffer on the Senate Finance committee in the 1990s and hosts of course the last word with Lawrence Odonnell. Put that back. Its a great picture. When i was writing tax law i had so much more hair. With moynihan. Senator moynihan. And you know, john mccain is, to put it mildly, exaggerating. This was not regular order on tax legislation. Thats right outside the Senate Finance Committee Hearing room and the Senate Finance Committee Staff offices where reporters will hang out forever trying to find out whats in the bill. Youre saying mccains not quite right . They didnt have any real hearings at all. A meeting of the finance committee is not a hearing by definition, as you know. They marked up the bill and they did do a markup which is when the Committee Meets and votes on the bill. But thats the very end of the process of regular process in the committee. That was the first thing they did. So mccain is the notion of regular process is hanging by a thread there. Its certainly a lot more regular process than they used on other things that theyve just rushed straight to the floor. But this is an inconsistent moment for john mccain. He voted against the bush tax cuts. He voted against them on the basis of what they would do to the deficit. Here he is voting for an explosion in the deficit in this next time. Theres no consistency at all in his position but this bill is in a remarkable amount of trouble for a republican tax cut bill which always flies through. It always flies through, and republican tax cut bills always fly through with democratic votes because a tax cut is an r irresistible thing to vote for. They dont want to be accused of being for higher taxes. To get no democratic votes on this is really one of the indicators of just how bad a bill this is. Senate parliamentarian as we speak has a very big problem with their latest zany idea which was bob corkers idea about why dont we have a trigger if the deficit is not reduced as much as we say it will be, why dont we have a trigger in there to raise revenue to make up for that which is to say a trigger somewhere in the future to raise taxes that the parliamentarian could not allow Something Like that in the bill because its unscoreable. Theres no conceivable way you could say how much a future tax increase would raise somewhere down the road. Its impossible to do. So that wont be in there. It was a bad idea to begin with. Youre making a nuanced and complex point about how that works. Im sorry. I have a simpler one for you which is isnt it weird, aka, hypocritical for republicans who always said you got to run the government and the budget the way you run a household, how much debt you can take on to come up as youre describing the thing thats supposed to save this bill is a thing where you literally wouldnt know in the long run what it would cost and what would happen and what the financial and economic reactions would be. Isnt that a weird position . It was bob corkers idea and i guarantee you that all of the worst ideas in tax bills always come from members who are not on the tax writing committee. The finance Committee Members sit there and they look at this nonsense, you know, when its pouring in at the last minute and people are trying to do something that will make them more comfortable with the vote. And they all know that this is absolute nonsense. It was from the start. But in this kind of thing where youre trying to hang onto every vote, humoring bob corker for a few days on a thing like the trigger helps you build momentum, and one of the things that happens with these senators, as you get closer to the finish line, it becomes more difficult for them to vote against it and so if youve strung bob corker along for a few days and in the meantime he has seen john mccain move into the yes column and bob corker feels more and more isolated, the likelihood of corker voting against it goes down. But they can always afford to lose two republicans on this so well see. Let me play for you donald trump just pitching this tax plan with a lot of predictions. Here he was yesterday. Under our plan middle class families will not only see their tax bill go down, they will see their incomes go up by an average of around 4,000. [ applause ] thats because were going to cut taxes on american businesses so they will compete for workers. Theyll raise salaries. The business is going to be haem a happy and the workers are going to be happy and the country is going to be a happy place. I havent found the happy place quite yet, but what do you make of the actual claims . Its the funniest thing anyones ever said about a tax bill that wages are going to go up 4,000 a year. Its just ludicrous and laughable and he doesnt care. He has never cared in his life about these things. Whatever he has to say today is what he says, and he doesnt care if hes proven wrong the next day. In this case we wont be able to prove him wrong for a couple of years. Once weve done that, he absolutely wont care then. And so youve got someone whos willing to say absolutely anything to try to pass this bill and whats so fascinating about it, its not working. Trump voters oppose it. He doesnt have as much support for this tax bill as he had in voters when he was elected on Election Night and later through the electoral college. So youve got 49 opposition to it. The support for it is in the 20s. Thats the support they have. So you have republicans opposed to this out there because theres quite rightly, theres nothing they see in it that is for them and there is some vague understanding out there that the deficit is bad and eventually were going to have to pay off the debt and the deficit. So voters know theres nothing in this for me and theres some big explosion of the deficit. Right. And thats the debate thats going to go into tonight here as we looked at Bernie Sanders and marco rubio which means into your show. We will be covering it live at 10 00 p. M. Tax debate on the senate floor. 10 00 p. M. Every night on msnbc. Also, check out his new book playing with fire, the 1968 election and the transformation of american politics. Its for aging hippies and any aging hippies you know and love, they will happily accept it as a holiday gift. A holiday gift for all the hippies in your life, whatever age bracket really. Youre probably desperately trying to understand aging hippies. This is your manual for that. This is how to do it, all right. Translate it all. Fantastic. Lawrence odonnell, always a pleasure when you stop by the beat. Coming up, is Donald Trumps Justice Department targeting civil rights activists. Jelani cobb is on next with me. And why does the trump tax plan punish teachers and do a bunch of things that dont have anything to do with taxes. My fact check later this hour. Ive always had that issue with the seeds getting under my denture. Super poligrip free. It creates a seal of the dentures in my mouth. Even well fitting dentures let in food particles just a few dabs of super poligrip free is clinically proven to seal out more food particles so youre more comfortable and confident while you eat. Super poligrip free made even the kiwi an enjoyable experience try super poligrip free. When this guy got a flat tire in the middle of the night. Hold on dad. Liberty did what . Yeah, Liberty Mutual 24hour roadside assistance helped him to fix his flat so he could get home safely. My dad says our insurance doesnt have that. Dont worry i know what a lug wrench is, dad. Is this a lug wrench . Maybe . You can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. Liberty stands with you™. Liberty mutual insurance. People spend less time lying awake with aches and pains with advil pm than with tylenol pm. Advil pm combines the number one pain reliever with the number one sleep aid. Gentle, nonhabit forming advil pm. For a healing nights sleep. Discover card. I justis this for real . Match, yep. We match all the cash back new cardmembers earn at the end of their first year, automatically. Whoo i got my money hard to contain yourself, isnt it . Uh huh let it go whoo get a dollarfordollar match at the end of your first year. Only from discover. Hate crimes are up in america 4. 6 from last year. Now, of those, about half were committed by white offenders, about a quarter by africanamericans. Now, those numbers are from the fbi. What is trumps doj doing about it . An internal report zeros in on what it calls, quote, black extremis extremists, but that report was not public. Its not part of trumps twitter storms or distractions. Its not what the administration apparently wants you to see. It was obtained by Foreign Policy magazine which led congresswoman karen bass to press Jeff Sessions for examples. There are groups that do have an extraordinary commitment to their racial identity, and some have transformed themselves even into violent activists. Could you name an africanamerican organization that have committed violent acts against Police Officer . I believe i could but i would want to be to confirm that and submit it to you in writing. Has the fbi done a report on White Supremacists that are likely to target officers . Im not aware of that. Cobb argues that trumps native inclinations are targeting civil rights leaders like mlk. Jelani cobb is here. You write about this term, black identity extremists. What are we talking about . Thats the question, what are we talking about . It appears to be a very arbitrary designation and so if you read the report, they talk about people who have anpolice, motivated by what they perceive as racial grievances. But there is no connection to an organization or to a kind of ideological leader figure, cult figure. Then they say theyre worried about some of these individuals being radicalized by the sovereign citizen movement. But then they later in the report say that theres no evidence that theres actually any interaction or connection with the sovereign citizen movement. So at the end of it, it seems as if the report exists solely to create a kind of language, an umbrella that you can arbitrarily use for all sorts of purposes, very many of which would likely be surveillance of africanamerican activists. Isnt there a big difference that there was a lot of violence in the 60s and 70s, and while there was an assassinations of africanamerican leaders, there were also unrest incidents, there were also riots. Sure, right. Right now as someone who covers lawful issues, most of that has been on the hate crime side of white supremacist groups and rallies and disappear the jews and charlottesville how do you account for that . Theres been a great deal of led that are gy around this. If you remember, one of the things activists have pointed out even going back to what happened in charleston in 2015 is that there was no designation of dylann roofs actions as terrorist by the fbi. Something Bennett James was criticized for. When he was targeting a black church explicitly. Explicitly. The attempt to create a kind of racial conflict. Race war. Race war. The u. S. Code defines terrorism as ideologically motivated violence intended to produce a political outcome. There has to be an element of political outcome to it. Thats certainly a political objective but the fbi refrained from that. So theres been a weird kind of asymmetry in terms of how they use these designations. Its such an important story and your article in the new yorker is really an important contribution to it. I want to ask about Something Else entirely. Youve been such an interesting analyst and critic of the president. I was speaking last night to the coauthor from art of the deal, tony schwartz, the interview with him made some news. Tony knows very well donald trump, having worked closely with him. Here is part of the interview where he made a revelation. I know that two different people from the white house, or at least saying they were from the white house and turned out to be a white house number, have called somebody i know in the last several weeks to say, we are deeply concerned about his Mental Health. I believe there are people who are concerned. Most of them i think are hostages to a cult leader. When you watch Sarah Huckabee sanders right now you feel as if youre watching somebody who is being brainwashed. All of America Needs to understand that this is a person who is now exceptionally dangerous because he is losing his grip. Coauthor of art of the deal. That is not what we would call medical evidence. Right. Its not from a doctor are doctor. But it is journalistic evidence what was he calls two people in the white house lodging this concern. As a journalist and analyst, how do you view this . Well, i dont even have to kind of goperspective. Duty to warn, a book in which 25 people who are Mental Health professionals said they were deeply concerned. These are people who have not treated or examined mr. Trump in person, but theyve said in their clinical opinions that he exhibits many characteristics and traits that they find to be consistent with a mentally unwell person. Thats something i think we should take very seriously. These are not conversations that we typically have. We would say, oh, well, obama did this, thats crazy. Or before that people would say, bush did this, thats nuts. But they meant that kind of colloqui colloquially. Were having actual substantive conversations with people who know about these issues saying this is something we at least need to examine and discuss. Yeah, i think thats important. Cobb, a voice of clarity, thank you so much for being here. Up ahead, this is a fact check i mentioned earlier. There are some oddities inside the tax plan, and then 4gettable kiss, thats next. Patrick woke up with back pain. But he has work to do. So he took aleve. If hed taken tylenol, hed be stopping for more pills right now. Only aleve has the strength to stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. Aleve. All day strong. avo but you also have a higher risk of heart attack or stroke. Noninsulin victoza® lowers a1c, and now reduces cardiovascular risk. Victoza® lowers my a1c and blood sugar better than the leading branded pill. avo and for people with type 2 diabetes treating cardiovascular disease, victoza® is now approved to lower the risk of major cardiovascular events such as heart attack, stroke, or death. And while it isnt for weight loss, victoza® may help you lose some weight. avo victoza® is not for people with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. Do not take victoza® if you have a personal or Family History of medullary thyroid cancer, multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if you are allergic to victoza® or any of its ingredients. Stop taking victoza® and get medical help right away if you get symptoms of a serious allergic reaction such as rash, swelling, difficulty breathing or swallowing. Serious side effects may happen, including pancreatitis. So, stop taking victoza® and call your doctor right away if you have severe pain in your stomach area. Tell your doctor your medical history. Gallbladder problems have happened in some people. Tell your doctor right away if you get symptoms. Taking victoza® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Common side effects are nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, decreased appetite, indigestion, and constipation. Side effects can lead to dehydration, which may cause kidney problems. Ask your doctor about victoza®. You know, there are certain questions that keep recurring in the trump era, like, is this normal . Or, is this real life . Well, now lets turn to one of the most fundamental questions that does arise when it comes to the trump administration. The question is, but why . Tonight were asking about about the tax plan which the white house rolled out with affection. Great job, thank you. I didnt know i was going to be given dont lose it. The tax proposal has changed in the last 28 days since that outline. The Senate Rushing a vote on it as we speak. Consider how many things in this bill might make you go, but why . This plan specifically hikes taxes on teachers, for example, but not all teachers. This plan singles out teachers who choose to spend money out of pocket to get supplies for their students. Trumps plan cuts their 250 deduction. The bill also loosens restrictions on political activity in church. It rolls back a 60yearold law banning churches from politicking. Church donations generally tax deductible to encourage charity, political donations are not. While republicans say this is a tax plan, consider that it also tries to give new legal rights to fetuses. A nontax provision that experts say could violate Supreme Court precedent, the bill attempts to change the federal definition of the homo sapiens species in order to give people early savings accounts for future education. But why . Why stiff teachers . And deregulate Campaign Rules . And redefine the federal definition of a fetus in a socalled tax bill is . But why . But why . But why . But why . But why . But why . But why . This is going to kansas me a fortune, believe me, believe me. This is not good for me. Not good for him. Trump drawing attention to the fact that hes the only modernday president ial candidate to insist on hiding his tax returns from voters. But why . Thats the question i leave you with. Hardball starts now. Helter skelter. Lets play hardball. Good evening. Im Chris Matthews in washington. President trumps oneman Foreign Policy is becoming a threering circus driven by his mercurial personality and ego. The New York Times reported this morning