Transcripts For MSNBCW The 11th Hour With Brian Williams 20181220

Million . Well sort through all of it as the 11th hour gets under way on a wednesday night. And good evening once again from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. Day 699 of the Trump Administration. Here we are, one away from 700 days in office. Just ahead tonight well have the latest on the backlash over the president s decision to pull u. S. Troops out of syria. And just a short time ago the Senate Passed a continuing resolution to keep the federal government funded until at least february, something short of a profile in courage. It now goes on to the house. More ahead on that as well. But we begin with brand new reporting from the Washington Post on the Mueller Investigation involving veteran trump ally and adviser roger stone. Post says the mueller team wants a copy of stones testimony, his official testimony before Congress Last year. A sign that the special counsel may be getting closer to charging stone with a crime. Reporter manuel roy franzia, who will join us in a moment, shares a byline with three of his colleagues at the paper. They write, the mueller team asked the House Intelligence Committee on friday for an official transcript of stones testimony according to people familiar with the request. Its the first time mueller has asked the committee to turn over material the panel has gathered in its investigation of russian interference of the 2016 campaign according to the people. The piece adds that stone who was in contact with the candidate during the 2016 campaign has been a focus of the special counsel as mueller probes whether the Trump Campaign had advance knowledge of wikileaks release of democratic emails allegedly hacked by russian operatives. Now, the post reports that stone says he has not been he had not been notified of muellers request, that the House Intel Committee is expected to take up the transcript request tomorrow in a closed door session and vote on it. This past weekend Incoming Committee chairman democrat adam schiff of california had this to say about roger stone. I believe that there is ample reason to be concerned about his truthfulness, and i do think that with respect to mr. Stone and perhaps others the special counsel is in a better position to determine the truth or falsity of that testimony and that we ought to provide it to the special counsel. As we alluded to, roger stones been part of Donald Trumps inner circle for a long time. Friend of almost 40 years. Advising him on both political and business matters. Back in the 80s stone ran a wellknown Washington Lobbying Firm along with exTrump Campaign chairman Paul Manafort. Hes been loyal to trump and has publicly said hes not going to go soft now. Theres no circumstance under which i would testify against the president because id have to bear false witness against him. Id have to make things up. And im not going to do that. That comment on abc news prompted this response from the president. Nice it know some people still have guts. The feds have been reportedly focusing on another roger stone associate in regard to wikileaks. Late last month reports emerged that mueller has emails from the new yorkbased birther and conspiracy theorist jerome corsi written to stone that seem to anticipate the release of hacked democratic emails during the campaign. Both men deny having any inside knowledge about what wikileaks was planning. Stone has said he spoke to trump the day after receiving those messages from corsi. This weekend trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani was asked about their conversation. Did roger stone ever give the president a headsup on wikileaks leaks concerning Hillary Clinton and the dnc . No, he didnt. Not at all . I dont believe so. But again, if roger stone gave anybody a headsup about wikileaks leaks, thats not a crime. It would be like giving him a headsup that the times is going to print something. The crime is conspiracy to hack. Collusion is not a crime. In addition to all of that, so much to react to there. The daily beast is reporting mueller is scrutinizing Trump Associates who may have tried to shape the administrations Foreign Policy by offering to ease u. S. Sanctions on russia. According to three sources, the special counsels office is preparing Court Filings that are expected to detail Trump Associates conversations about sanctions relief and spell out how those offers and counterproposals were characterized to top figures on the campaign and in the administration. And tonight the wall street journal reports that trumps testimony from investigations in 1988 and again in the year 2000 show he was well acquainted with Campaign Finance laws. Back in 1999 he told larry king no one knew more about Campaign Finance than he did. The journal writes, that knowledge could be critical if investigators ever pursue a case against him over his alleged direction of hush money payments in the 2016 campaign. The paper adds that Rudy Giuliani previously argued that trump had limited understanding of Campaign Finance laws. With all of that in mind we bring in our leadoff panel on a wednesday night. Peter baker, chief White House Correspondent for the New York Times. Mimi rocah, a former u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york, now a distinguished fellow in criminal justice at the Pace University school of law. And the aforementioned manuel roy franzia, features writer for the Washington Post. Manuel, id like to begin with you because its your shared byline that begins our broadcast tonight. Tell us what you know about this request and what it may portend. Well, its a significant request for this reason. Legal experts say that prosecutors, when theyre in the final stages of their investigation, when theyre leading up to potentially bringing charges against someone, they need an official transcript of their remarks. And thats exactly what mueller has been asking for right now from the House Intelligence Committee. Its viewed as a possible signal that they could be moving towards charges against roger stone, who as you mentioned is such a significant figure in the history of donald trump and has such a close relationship with him for so long. Manuel, we happen to have a legal expert with us, in fact a crackerjack lawyer, and thats mimi. Mimi, i heard this 12kr50ibd this a tonight. If youre going to file a tax case, even though you can work from xerox copies as youre compiling the case, on the eve of filing youve got to see and feel the actual signed return like it is with this transcript. Maybe muellers office has been working off a dependable xeroxed or electronically sent transcript. This has to have the imprimate ur of the committee. And do you follow the rest of this story that this could mean very bad things for roger stone . Yes, brian, i do agree with that inference that people seem to be drawing from this, under the rules of evidence you need to get the best or original document. You cant you know, to charge someone to put into court. And obviously they would want to have that just to make sure that the copies that theyve been looking at are accurate. But more importantly, under the rules of evidence you need to have the orange the documents eventually in court. I think it is not a question if roger stone is going to be charged but when and this seems to make it more imminent and what he will be charged with. This seems to indicate he will be charged with some kind of false statements relating to his testimony in congress. But i suspect he will also be charged with other things. So i think thats really sort of the hanging question out there, is he going to be charged with some kind of not collusion but conspiracy. Will he be charged with crimes in addition to the false statements, and what will the false statements be . What will the evidence be that mueller puts forward of his lies to congress . That will be very revealing to us. Peter, im not going to ask you if the west wing is preoccupied with all these preliminary matters. Im going to ask you how much. Keeping in mind last night the u. S. Senate passed a groundbreaking landmark piece of legislation on criminal justice and sentencing reform. Its going to free thousands of people from our prisons across the country. That could have been a layup day. An easy victory lap for a normal white house, could it not . Yeah. Its very striking if you look at this president s schedule for the last week or so, basically has almost nothing on it from day to day. Now, you can say thats because he has this looming Government Shutdown to worry about and therefore maybe better to keep the schedule clear. But i think what it indicates as well is just how consumes he is and how consumed his white house is with all the incoming fire coming across his bow at this point. Not just the latest reporting you mentioned tonight but in the last two weeks weve seen day after day, the flynn hearing and manafort and cohen and maria butina and so forth. Its been more intense, more rapid. More accelerated than weve seen it since the beginning of this set of investigations more than a year ago and its definitely consuming the white house at a time when they dont know whats ahead of them. Democrats are about to take the house, about to take over subpoena power. Much is about to happen for him on the investigation front. With that as well. Manuel, youve covered so many stories over the years both domestically and in farflung places overseas. I also know you have had the intense pleasure of enjoying roger stones interpersonal charms up close for a profile you did. Explain to our viewers just what that is like other than his notoriously pugnacious and provocative personality. And i guess my question is does he try to keep that up even though he appears to be in great peril . Oh, yeah. I think you can be assured that roger stone will be out there throwing punches both above the belt and below the belt. He lives in this world where you are constantly spinning. He travels with a camera so he can get on air immediately for shows that he anchors on infowars. Com, which is a conspiracyminded site. And also for his own writing. So one of the things he is going to be able to do throughout this whole saga is point to the fact that he is a bragriggart, he exaggerates, he likes to spin and this is something that should actually augur to his benefit, and that this is going to be viewed by people who are trying to parse his words as a kind of defense for him. It will be interesting to see whether that flies. Please dont tell our bosses that traveling with a camera is a viable option. Hey, mimi, the wall street journal is out with a piece just before we came on the air about william barr. He is the selection of the Trump Administration to return to a job he once held as attorney general. They have found an unsolicited memo he wrote earlier this year to doj that calls the Mueller Investigation into potential obstruction of justice fatally misconceived, that could cause lasting damage to the presidency and the executive branch. Beyond whether or not you concur with the opinion, how much of a problem is this going to be a la whitaker, the rap on acting a. G. Whitaker was that he somehow prejudged the most pressing matter happening under the joj umbrella . Well, i think that its a problem because people are going to see it through the lens of gee, what a coincidence that trump keeps picking people for this position, whether it be acting or permanent, who have expressed some criticism of the Mueller Investigation. So when you look at it, analyzing trumps state of mind, its problematic. However, i think there are real differences between what barr did here and what whitaker did. First of all, barr is going to be subject to questioning in a confirmation process. That is something we didnt have with whitaker. So he will be able to be asked about this. He also was expressing skepticism about one part of the investigation, and it is baseded on a legal theory that some people have put forward about the executive power. Whether you agree with it or not, he was expressing that theory. And he acknowledged apparently in the memo he didnt know all the facts. I do view this as different if whitaker, who seemed to be prejudging the entire investigation and was much more hostile to it and also who people were not going to have a chance to question, which made i think a big difference. Here well be able to other hear his answers. And i think those should be listened to carefully. An important distinction to make as this story comes in to us tonight. Peter baker, 20 years ago tonight i am guessing crouched over a tandy 1000 or similar hightech early computer you were banging out along with your coauthor what we call the a1 leadall, the peter baker piece then on the front page of the Washington Post, the headline plain for our viewers to see. The question to you is is this white house at all prepared for the day when one peter baker perhaps is asked to write his second a1 leadall cover story on the topic of impeachment in as many decades if that possibility comes to pass . Yeah. I think it was an underwood manual type writer. I could be wrong. Certainly a laptop today if we have to go through this again. I think this white house is aware this is out there. And in fact you heard the president talk about it on the campaign trail, actually as a political argument for the election of his allies in the midterm elections didnt work in the house obviously. I think they recognize intellectually its coming. I dont think they understand sort of viscerally just how difficult this year is about to become. Now, that doesnt mean the democrats are necessarily going to go to impeachment. It really does depend on what Robert Mueller comes back with. Democrats take from that lesson 20 years ago that republicans, you know, didnt succeed in the impeachment with clinton because they couldnt get a bipartisan 2 3 majority in the senate. Democratic leaders understand today they do not have a 2 3 bipartisan majority in the senate for anything like this today. And so it would be an unsuccessful effort if they were to proceed under the current information they have. That may change if Robert Mueller comes back with something. The other thing thats important to remember is that the Democratic Leaders are under enormous pressure from their own base, their liberal base, which is agitating for action against the president. Nancy pelosi said wait a second, lets hold off from mueller, in the meantime well have some hearings of our own. Well see how long shes able to push back against that sentiment within her own party. But youre right. I never would have suspected 20 years ago tonight that we would be talking about this again just two decades later. Peter baker, who were happy to report found work after leaving the Washington Post at the New York Times, we thank you as we thank mimi rocah and manuel hoigfranzia. Thank you very much for joining us on a wednesday night. And coming up for us, the president declares Mission Accomplished against isis, says its time to bring american troops home. But tonight Coalition Military officials reached by said New York Times call it catastrophic and reckless. And later, why is it that the possibility of a Government Shutdown before christmas is still a glimmer tonight . That and more. Were just Getting Started on a wednesday evening. At booking. Com, we cant guarantee youll find gold on your wild west vacation. But we can guarantee the best price on that thar rental cabin or any hotel, home, boat, yurt, whatever. Just dont get carried away with the wild west thing. Hey guys. Get the best price on homes, hotels and so much more. Booking. Com, booking. Yeah in what was a major u. S. Policy shift, President Trump is pulling troops out of syria. Nbc news reports its a move that blindsided senior officials at both the pentagon and the state department. Earlier tonight the president posted a video declaring isis defeated in syria, saying its time for u. S. Troops to leave. Weve been fighting for a long time in syria. Ive been president for almost two years, and weve really stepped it up. And we have won against isis. Weve beaten them and weve beaten them badly. Weve taken back the land. And now its time for our troops to come back home. Thats all we saw of the president today. Video from the rose garden. Reaction to his announcement was swift and mostly harsh. A lot of it from republicans. If obama had done this, we would be all over him as republicans. The decision to withdraw american an american presence in syria is a colossal in my mind mistake. A great error. Obviously, this makes what obama did in iraq, its replicating that but in many ways its even worse. So the decision today by the president , and i think it was his alone, i think is disastrous to our own National Security. New york times reports Senior National Security Officials have been warning President Trump against this very move. In a series of meetings and Conference Calls over the past several days defense secretary jim mattis and other Senior National Security Officials have tried to dissuade mr. Trump from a wholesale troop withdrawal, arguing that the significant National Security policy shift would essentially cede foreign influence in syria to russia and iran at a time when american policy calls for challenging both countries. Our friends ann guerin and josh dawsey at the Washington Post report tonight secretary mattis is at a low point in his influence with trump and potentially also a shorttimer. Well, with us tonight to talk about it, retired u. S. Army colonel jack jacobs, a decorated combat veteran of vietnam. Hes one of 74 living recipients of the medal of honor. Also with us tonight another decorated combat veteran of vietnam, twotime recipient of the distinguished service cross. Former battlefield commander in the gulf war. Retired u. S. Army fourstar general barry mccaffrey. Were happy to say both gentlemen are military analysts for this network. Jack jacobs, home field advantage. You get to go first. What just happened today . Who wins and who loses as a result . Winners, assad. Although we havent been in syria to beat up on assad, mostly isis. Russia. Expanding their influence. They want to stay in syria because they get warm water ports. Otherwise, their fleets are bottled up in the black sea and can be shortcircuited through the dardanelles by turkey. Iran, which is trying mightily to expand its influence. And turkey actually is a winner because it would like the opportunity to beat up on the kurds, who are whom we are supporting inside syria. Losers, the kurds. And the United States of america. This is really not a good idea. And i think its counter to all the advice hes received from people far and wide, and not just inside the United States but also overseas. I think as you noted another loser is mattis. And the National Security establishment generally. Youre going to have isolati isolationists in all these posts soon. General mccaffrey, what did this just do to all the professionals in the pentagon, not all of them with stars on their shoulders, whose lifes work is strategy and policy and support and putting a lot of hard brain power into problems like this . Does this diminish their work . Well, first of all, i think jack jacobs entirely got it correct on who benefits out of this sort of impulsive shortterm decision. National security is not just the pentagon. Its the state department. Its cia. Its treasury and others. By and large they are consummate professionals with careers following these issues. By the way, i do think that you can form a rational argument on why you ought to pull troops out of syria. I dont support it. But there has been incredible success in both iraq and syria by very small footprints of u. S. Militaries backed up by some incredible air power from the navy and air force. We have pushed back isis remarkably. Theres still 20,000 or 30,000 left. But i think what you cant form an argument for is having sort of a lone ranger foreign and National Security policy where you dont bring your own government aboard, you dont bring your allies aboard, you dont think about the next step, you dont have a strategy. It looks like we dont know what were doing. Jack jacobs, i want to show you and remind our audience about a constant complaint on the campaign trail having to do with military policy by then candidate donald trump. They announced four months ago, three months ago, were going into mosel. Were going to get the leaders of isis because theyre living in mosul. Guess what . 12 minutes later the leaders they left. Whatever happened . Remember the great generals it was called . The element of surprise. What you do is you do a sneak attack or a surprise attack. Right . Right . Were too predictable. We must as a nation be more unpredictable. We are totally predictable. We tell everything. Were sending troops. We tell them. Were sending something else, we have a news conference. We have to be unpredictable. Jack, is this any different from that . No, not at all. And it points out a lot of other things that are related to the use of the military instrument of power. It always takes more resources to hold on to an objective than it does to take it in the first place. You asked who are the winners and who are the losers. Isis is a winner in this case. Its not defeated and it will come back now that were not there to make sure theyre not only gone but they stay gone. Im reminded of the seinfeld episode where he tries to get the midsize car and he says you dont know the purpose of a reservation. The person behind the counter says yes. He says no, you dont. You know how to take the reservation. You just dont know how to hold on to it. We know how to take reservations but we dont know and we dont have the political will to hold on to them. I think isis is a big winner here. Barry mccaffrey, we have referred to general mattis, secretary mattis, on this broadcast and elsewhere as kind of as one of the human guardrails within this administration. Are you concerned and i know youre a big fan of secretary mattis as a kind of combination soldier scholar in the modern woshld. Are you concerned that this kind of thing will hasten his retreat . I think so. And by the way, its not just secretary mattis. Somehow he has managed to recruit and get through the Trump White House as well as approved by the senate a remarkable team of civilians in the pentagon. The severning secretary, deputy secretary of defense, these are really solid folks. I dont think secretary mattis will ever quit. And probably mr. Trump is leery of firing him. Hes a fourstar marine with iconic status. And not just in the arnold forces but in the country. Deservedly so. Id add to this, brian, i listened to a rant by a distinguished earlier today talking about hawks and stupid wars in the middle east and endless wars, basically supporting the trump argument. I think the worst thing we ever came up with was exit strategy. Were still in germany, japan, south korea because it fits our longterm security interests and because we think were helping keep the peace. So you know, afghanistans a distressing situation. Thats not going the right direction. But iraq and syria weve actually done extremely well. Pulling abruptly out, leaving our allies, the kurds by the way, the french and the brits have been in there with us also. Is simply appalling, impulsive bad judgment. Two men who know what theyre talking about and have sacrificed a lot for their country. Colonel jack jacobs, general barry mccaffrey. Gentlemen, as always, thank you. And coming up for us, are signals being sent to particular russians in regard to sanctions . That discussion when we come right back. Doctors. Jobs grew a bunch. What started with one job spread all around. Because each job in energy creates many more in this town. Energy lives here. This holiday season, families near you need your help. Visit redcross. Org now to donate. Welcome back. The Trump Administration is about to impose fresh sanctions on russia. And well get to that. But the news of today is that they are lifting sanctions on companies tied to one of putins closest allies. According to our own Treasury Department theyve come to an agreement that reduces Oleg Deripaskas ownership below 50 , thereby untangling and protecting these companies from the controlling influence of a kremlin insider. If that name there, oleg deripaska, sounds familiar, its because hes also linked to t p trumps former campaign manager, this man, Paul Manafort. As for those new sanctions they are aimed at 15 russian Intelligence Officers in response to russias continued disregard for international norms. So theres that. That includes meddling in our own president ial election. Some of the names on that list have already been named in an indictment from the special counsels office. Be that as it may and with us to talk about it tonight, an expert in this area, former ambassador michael mcfaul. He was our u. S. Ambassador to russia during the obama administration. Ambassador joyce vance does not come from the diplomatic ranks, rather from law. What you have in common is you were both appointed by the same president. But she said this on social media today, and i wanted to start with it. These are sanctions congress voted on a bipartisan basis and to impose and that trump dragged his feet on, missing the deadline for months. Now they simply go away like magic for the oligarch Paul Manafort is rumored to have been deeply in debt to. Ambassador, does she have it about right there . And tell the folks what you know about this deripaska. Well, brian, its a complicated story because on the whole seeing these new sanctions i support them. I think its right. The two gentlemen that tried to kill mr. Skripal in the united kingdom, theyre on this list. Its a little knebelous in that they just list all the negative things that these russians have done. When you want it to be an ifthen statement, were sanctioning them for this and if they change their policy well lift them. But to the point about deripaska, i am perplexed by what they did today. Because the goal of u. S. Foreign policy should not be in my view to reduce Oleg Deripaskas shares in these companies. What National Interest does that serve . And it seems to me that somebody wants to get rusal and his other companies off of the sanctions list. And again, i dont understand how that changes putins behavior. I dont understand how that punishes putin for what he did in the 2016 election or the many other things that were listed today. Well, are we doing a classic news media day and losing the forest for the trees in do you think its overall a good day for the u. S. , meaning net net sanctions have just increased on russia or do you think theres satisfaction in russia donate that deripaska is partially off the hook. And lets not forget that welcome news that the u. S. Is getting out of syria. No, i think the net in the kremlin is this is good news. Rusal is a major russian company, important to the russian economy and important to the world economy. Which makes me wonder if thats why theyre getting off the list. And just because deripaskas shares have decreased, we dont know who is the new owners of those shares. They could very well be people just as close to president putin. I see that as the big story that we need to understand more. And yes, most certainly to follow up on the conversation you just had, one of the big net winners of the decision to pull out of syria most certainly is vladimir putin. Hes been waiting for this day for a long, long time. Maybe wont be the winner in the long run because i think theres going to be a lot of turbulence in syria for years and decades to come. But in this instance this is good for putin and i think its bad for our National Security. So many of our questions are about things that turn out to have been done in plain sight. And theyre kind of amazing to watch because who would do that in plain sight. Could this turn out to be somebody the fix was in and somebody put in the good word at treasury for deripaskas interest . I want to be clear, brian. I dont know the facts. I most certainly done know. But i do know rusal. I know oleg deripaska. When i was ambassador i would diel with him personally. They have very active lobbyists. They want rusal to be off that list, and they were making an argument about the health of the world economy, back when they were first put on the list. So the real news is rusal is off the sanctions list. The news is not that deripaska reduced his share. I mean, who cares about that. Why is that important to american National Security . The real news is they decided to take one of the Biggest Companies that they had sanctioned, and i applauded that by the way. When they did that, now theyve taken him off the list. And we dent know the answer as to why. Our former u. S. Ambassador to russia michael mcfaul. Thank you for joining us and taking our questions. Amead, coming up, the president has quietly added a caveat having to do with who will pay for that wall. More on this oneword change when we come back. Whoa the mercedesbenz winter event is back, and you wont want to stop for anything else. Lease the gla 250 for 359 a month at your local mercedesbenz dealer. Mercedesbenz. The best or nothing. [narrator] meet sharks newest robot vacuum. It powerfully cleans from floors to carpets, even pet hair, with ease, and now for cleaning surfaces above the floor, it comes with a built in shark handheld. One dock, two sharks. The shark ion robot cleaning system. That skills like teamwork, attention to detail, and Customer Service are critical to business success. Like the ones we teach here, every day. And Customer Service are critical to business success. At booking. Com, we cant guarantee youll good at that water jet thingy. But we can guarantee the best price on this hotel. Or any accommodation, from homes to yurts. Booking. Com booking. Yeah life isnt a straight line. Things happen. And sometimes you can find yourself heading in a new direction. But at fidelity, we help you prepare for the unexpected with Retirement Planning and advice for what you need today and tomorrow. Because when youre with fidelity, a partner who makes sure every step is clear, theres nothing to stop you from moving forward. I get very saddened when i have to write letters or call parents or wives or husbands of soldiers who have been killed, fighting for our country. Its a great honor. We cherish them. But its heartbreaking. Theres no question about it. Its heartbreaking. Now weve won. Its time to come back. That video shot in the white house rose garden. Thats the colonnade in the oval Office Behind the president. A video produced by the white house this afternoon. Please note whats missing. Reporters with questions. But thats how we got to hear the president lay out the underpinnings of his decision to pull u. S. Troops out of syria. As newsday reported tonight, the white house did not offer a timeline for the removal of troops. This is great. Referring questions to the pentagon, which referred inquiries back to the white house. Past performance tells us its only right to ask if such an announcement made on twitter as an attempt as a shiny object distraction after whats already been a bad week and then theres the wall. As you may remember, the president who wants 5 billion in taxpayer money made a promise to his base about where the money would come from for the wall. Whos going to pay for the wall . [ crowd saying mexico ] who . And mexico will pay for the wall i promise. In the end mexicos going to pay for the wall. Now the president has added a new word which admittedly wouldnt have gone over as well on the road with those rally audiences. He now says on twitter, mexico is paying indirectly for the wall through the new version of nafta. He added the United States military will build the wall. Lets talk about it with an expert. Tamara keith is back with us. White house correspondent for npr. Tamara, a lot of news in washington already just tonight. The senate as we said something short of a profile in courage has unanimously by voice vote kicked the continuing resolution over to the house of representatives. Thatll get government through february. Ive always said they i would compare them to the behavior of a bunch of drunks but i dont want to insult a bunch of drunks. And where does the wall play in all this . Will the president s signature on a continuing resolution mean he has dropped his demand for the 5 billion . So i talked to Kellyanne Conway today, the counselor to the president. And she was building this sort of interesting case that the president also seems to be building that now, she wouldnt say precisely whether hes planning to sign it or not. But lets assume that he does. The case she was building is that hes not going to give up, hes going to continue fighting for the wall and hes going to look for other ways potentially to pay for it. And also she says you call it a wall but its wall plus. It could also be surveillance and other things. So the definition of the wall seems to be shifting somewhat, as is how the wall would be paid for. Because that 5 billion is not in this spending bill. And it doesnt get easier with a democratic house. Do you have any inside knowledge of what an indirect payment is . So ive been trying to divine this and i havent quite figured it out. As far as i can tell, what the president is trying to say in his tweet, and Sarah Sanders was asked about this in the briefing yesterday, is that the new trade deal which has not been ratified by the u. S. Congress or the legislatures in mexico and canada, if it were to go into effect would somehow either produce massive Economic Growth that would lead to more tax revenue that would then pay for the wall or that tariffs that come as a result of it would put more money in the treasury, which would then help pay for the wall. But economists and trade experts i talked to say this is not a particularly logical argument. One, the money isnt there now. Two, money from taxpayers is not mexico. And tariffs are paid for by the consumers, by the goods in the country that is applying the tariffs, not in the country thats producing those goods. So we are mexico. We would be indirectly paying for the wall, americans. And on this the president has lost some big name conservatives. Laura ingrahams been very tough on him on this. Here is a quote from ann coulter. Its now Crystal Clear one of two things is true. Either trump never intended to build the wall and was scamming voters all along ore has no idea how to get it done and zero interest in finding out. In other words, trump is doing exactly what i feared he would do in the worst conceivable way. Hes not building the wall while making ridiculous promises right up until the second before he folds. Say what you will about ann coulter, but she heard all the same rallies the rest of us did. What does that mean, that hes lost ann coulter . He lost ann coulter a while ago, and she has been on fire about this wall issue for some time. The bigger question is whether he loses mark levin and rush limbaugh, whether mark meadows in the congress you know, there are a lot of other people to look for to see people that are voices who are influential with his base. To see whether this sort of creative reimagining of the wall and how it will be funded or never funded, to see whether his base buys that marketing or whether his base starts to believe that President Trump is a politician like the politicians he ran against. Youre right. This crossed ann coulters red line a while back. Thank you so much for joining us late on a wednesday night. Tamara keith, National Public radio. Appreciate it greatly. Coming up, are the markets really headed for the worst december since the era of bread lines and hoovervilles in this country . That when we come back. Kayla our dad was in the hospital. Josh because of smoking. But we still had to have a cigarette. Had to. Kayla do you know how hard it is to smoke in a hospital . By the time we could, we were like. What are we doing . Kayla it was time for nicodermcq. The nicodermcq patch with unique extended release Technology Helps prevent your urge to smoke all day. And doubles your chances of quitting. Nicodermcq. You know why, we know how. [narrator] meet sharks newest robot vacuum. It powerfully cleans from floors to carpets, even pet hair, with ease, and now for cleaning surfaces above the floor, it comes with a built in shark handheld. One dock, two sharks. The shark ion robot cleaning system. Ive been a very good man in the fed. I dont necessarily agree with it because hes raising Interest Rates. Im not saying that i agree with it and i dont agree with it. I must tell you, i dont. Im not thrilled because we go up and every time you go up, they want to raise rates again. The biggest threat is the fed because the fed is raising rates too fast. And its independent, so i dont speak to him. The problem i have is with the fed. The fed is going wild. I mean, i dont know what their problem is, but theyre raising Interest Rates and its ridiculous. To be clear, president s never speak that way about the Federal Reserve or its chairman. The president has never held back about this Federal Reserve or its chairman. But the fed chair, jerome powell, has made it clear he will not allow that to influence him or affect his decisions. And the fed raised its benchmark Interest Rates a quarter point next year. Increase was widely expected. It was the fourth rate hike this year. During a press conference, jerome powell, chairman of the fed was asked about trump publicly urging the fed not to hike rates and heres his response. Political considerations play no role whatsoever in our discussions or decisions about monetary policy. The markets then took a dive. The dow closed down 351. Cnbc summed up all this recent market loss this way. Quote, the dow and s p 500 are on track for their worst december forecast since 1931. Down more than 9 and 8 respectively this month. The s p 500 is now in the red for 2018 by 6. 3 . The dow has lost over 1,250 points this week. Stay tuned. Coming up, some Holiday Cheer from a voice of christmass past. If your moderate to Severe Ulcerative Colitis or crohns symptoms are holding you back, and your Current Treatment hasnt worked well enough it may be time for a change. Ask your doctor about entyvio®, the only biologic developed and approved just for uc and crohns. Entyvio® works at the site of inflammation in the gi tract, and is clinically proven to help many patients achieve both symptom relief and remission. Infusion and serious allergic reactions can happen during or after treatment. Entyvio® may increase risk of infection, which can be serious. Pml, a rare, serious, potentially fatal brain infection caused by a virus may be possible. Tell your doctor if you have an infection experience frequent infections or have flulike symptoms, or sores. Liver problems can occur with entyvio®. If your uc or crohns treatment isnt working for you, ask your gastroenterologist about entyvio®. Entyvio®. Relief and remission within reach. Sometimes you need an expert. I got it. And sometimes those experts need experts. On it. [ crash ] and sometimes the expert the expert needed Needs Insurance expertise. Its all good. Steve, youre covered for general liability. And, paul, we got your back with workers comp. Wow, its like a party in here. Where are the hors doeuvres, right . [ clanking ] tartlets . We cover commercial vehicles, too. I think theres something wrong with your sink. Last thing before we go here tonight, our role here is simply to step back and show you a video put out today by the Childrens National Medical Center in washington, d. C. Its a reminder of what a former president looks like, and theres also this. You just dont get to see that many president s in santa hats. So while you might have seen parts of this earlier, here now, the visit of a former president to Childrens Hospital in washington. [ cheers ] snow. We wish you a Merry Christmas and a happy new year [ cheers ] i just want to say thank you to all of you guys. Ive had a chance to talk to some of the wonderful kids and their families. At a time that obviously is tough for folks, and as a dad of two girls, i can only imagine. In that situation, to have nurses and staff and doctors and people who are caring for them and looking after them and listening to them and just there for them and holding their hand, thats the most important thing there is. What a great reminder of what the holiday spirit is supposed to be all about. You can tell what that, no, i dont, all of them. Former president barack obama bringing cheer to those who could use it especially this time of year. That is our broadcast for this wednesday night. Thank you so much for being here with us. Good night from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. A lot of news, a lot to get to tonight. The president today, of course, decided to pull a rabbit out of a hat with a surprise announcement that hes ordering the u. S. Military to pull out of syria entirely, immediately, all at once, right now. The chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee is bob corker, a republican senator from tennessee. Senator corker spoke to reporters today soon after the president pulled this rabbit out of a hat and made this surprise announcement