Brian Williams examines the days top political stories and current politicalcampaign news. Election, that means the more careful you have to be in how overtly you investigate or charge someone who is going to be on the ballot in that election. First of all, donald trump, as far as i know, is not on the ballot in 2018. So this whole issue about them affecting the election is actually pretty tangential. Its not clear how much it applies. But mueller is so clearly cautious and observant of precedent and law. Yes. So he will take it into account. But its sort of a sliding scale. Trumps not on the ballot. So you dont have to be quite as careful as, for example, charging someone like collins who is up for reelection. So there they had to be very, very careful. And also, you know, you have to not you dont have to stop the whole election the whole
investigation. Can you pause some aspects of it . You just dont want to do something overt. He can keep doing lots of stuff, its not like theyre going to close up shop come september 1st. Giuliani is creating this deadline, september 1st, september 1st. If people buy into that, because who knows about this doj guidance, most people dont, and how it works, its very factbased and nuanced, then come september 1st, if Mueller Doesnt Wrap it up, giuliani can say hes blown the deadline. He makes mueller look bad by creating this false reality. Michael crowley, any reason to believe the giuliani strategy is anything other than these three words, delay, distract, and discredit . I dont think so, brian. Think about Rudy Giulianis recent history. Where is the track record of this guy being a Master Strategist . He was mayor of new york city, which is an extremely challenging job. He wasnt an especially popular one for most of that time until a cataclysmic event in the form of a massive terror attack
transformed his image. But that happened Out Of The Blue and a lot of it was just sort of how he performed on camera. Then he ran for president. His president ial campaign was basically a flop. He wasnt remembered for any great or powerful message or insights. Since then his reputation has kind of taken a beating. Hes made a lot of money basically influencepeddling. And his reputation has suffered. So, you know, there are people and im not saying people on this show here are doing this, theyre not, but other people are sort of suggesting there is this brilliant strategy behind what hes doing, and its putting mueller on the defensive. I see no reason to think that we should imagine that theres a strategy behind this unfolding. Its hard to discern on the surface level. And i suspect that mueller a lot of this, he may find it comical that giuliani is setting these deadlines and issuing what are in Effect Demands and orders. I just think mueller is doing what hes doing on his own time frame, has a huge amount of information at his disposal, is really the guy in charge here. And theres something you know i could be completely wrong in the way this turns out, but from where i sit right now, theres something almost a little satirical, rudy raging at the dying of the light here, and i just dont think theres much to it. Lisa, no judgment here because a number of us are, but the president is cable addicted. Having established that, what are the kind of unique pressures . Here he is on vacation, playing golf, as far as we can tell, every day, although our lenses are kept far, far away from his golf course. What are the pressures he is seeing and feeling . Hes certainly seeing a lot of coverage of the manafort trial, which has not been particularly flattering either
for manafort or rick gates or the campaign. Hes seeing Whats Going On with his former personal lawyer Michael Cohen and how the pressure is racheting up over there. And hes feeling the pressure of the midterms. While he claimed a number of victories in the midterms this week, that Special Election in ohio was awfully, awfully close. We still dont have a conclusive winner. Thats a district that trump won by 11, it should not have been that close. Hes feeling a number of legal and political pressures. But i think what his team is seeing thats making them feel like their strategy may be working, is the polling numbers. Theyre seeing that the longer they as you put it, the
longer they delay, the more disapproval of mueller and the investigation seems to rise. But as you pointed out at the beginning of the show, were only hearing 50 of the story. So while those numbers have been moving a certain way, The Big Question is what happens once the public starts hearing the other half of the story, do we see those numbers change. Polling moves. Mimi, another associate of roger stone is about to receive or has received a subpoena to come in and talk to the mueller team. This is now a line of associates, the stars and moons around roger stone. I think ive asked you this question about five times before. Would you want to be roger stone right about now . He hasnt been called. Absolutely not. I mean, look, its dangerous to make predictions about mueller because weve all said many times, he knows so much more than we know. But just based on whats in the Public Record and, as you say, the process and how its playing out that so many of his associates have been subpoenaed and he hasnt been asked to come talk to them, i think really does point in the direction that hes going to be looking at an indictment. And the question is, indicted for what exactly, and with whom. Is he going to be put into the he could just be added into the already existing russia indictment, either one, really,
depending on what his actions were exactly. Probably the hacking one, or a separate indictment with other u. S. Citizens, possibly. It all seems possible to me right now. And its not that the longer mueller goes on, you know, hes scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to find something. I think hes going on because he keeps uncovering more and more evidence. Ive wanted for months to see whatever whiteboard they have in his office. Yes. Hey, michael, part of your lifes work has been studying and writing about foreign affairs. And so here we have russia. Remembering this is all about russias interference in our election. Sanctions just put in place against russia. They called it unfriendly. Just a quick reminder, with true north as our guide, how weird is the u. S. russia relationship as of right now . Its bizarre. I cant think, brian, of another example where you had so much distance between the commander in chief and his seniormost advisers on the subject matter. So in this case, the distance between trump and his Top National Security officials on how the United States should be approaching russia. Trump wants to befriend russia. Trump wants to reset relations, in effect. He seems to basically trust vladimir putin. And then there is this whole apparatus around him that is ensuring that we dont do any of those things, that we harden our resolve against russia, that we continue to impose sanctions. Secretary of state mike pompeo, who some people have depicted as a bit of a yes man, who basically wants to please trump, he came out and issued a statement saying the u. S. Would never recognize Russian Annexation Of Crimea until it is reversed, and that is not the position that trump has held, hes left the door open. Pompeo has been tough on this subject. And republicans in congress who have deferred to trump on all kinds of other issues are mad at hell, for the most part, with notable exceptions, some of the senators who traveled to moscow. Its bizarre, brian, ive never seen a divide on this level in our government. Just thought i would ask. Our thanks to all three of you, really appreciate it. Coming up for us, as we approach our first break, its something you dont hear often in a federal courtroom. What the judge had to say after a Feisty Exchange with prosecutors. There have been a few. And later, President Trump has said it a lot, he only hires the best people. However, the list of Trump Associates with legal problems just keeps getting longer. Ill get it out. The 11th hour just getting under way on a thursday night. Are you ready to take your wifi to the next level . It was a good day. An attorney for President Trumps formerly Campaign Chairman Paul Manafort sounding confident. Day eight of the manafort trial. Todays testimony focused on charges that manafort lied and committed bank fraud to qualify for bank loans. The more notable moment may have come before any witnesses even took the stand this morning. It was in the form of a rare mea culpa from this judge, who has clashed frequently with the special counsels team, the government prosecutors. Referring to a Tense Exchange the day before over whether an irs witness should have been allowed to testify after having
been allowed to be in court, judge t. S. Elliott told the jury, quote, it appears i may well have been wrong. He went on to say, this Robe Doesnt Make Me anything other than human. I sometimes make mistakes. Paul manafort, a reminder, facing Bank Tax Fraud charges, charges he denies. This is his first trial as a result of the investigation by muellers office. With us tonight to talk about it, were so pleased to have Chuck Rosenberg back, former u. S. Attorney for the Eastern District of attorney, who has spent his fair share of time in that very courtroom where the trial is being held. He also happens to be a former senior official with the fbi. And Eric Tuck Certificate back with us, Justice Department reporter for the associated press. He was in court for todays proceedings. Chuck, ive thought of you so many times because, in plain english, you were u. S. Attorney where this trial is taking part. Youve had your fair share of time to watch this judge. What do you make of all of it . Ive heard straight down the middle reporters say kind of straight up that he has been prejudicial, he has clearly and provably been tougher on the prosecution. You know, brian, ive seen him be tough on the prosecution. Ive seen him be tough on defense counsel. But there i think is a better way to do it, right . I mean, if a judge has something she needs to say to counsel, defense or prosecution, she can call them to the bench. She can excuse the jury. She can even yell at us, that happens too. But it should be done in private, because judges have so much authority in their courtroom. And the jury listens carefully to what they say. The concern i have is if hes angry at one side or the other, even if hes right, the fact that he yells at them, berates them, castigates them in front of the jury can tip the scales and the judge has to be so careful never to do that. I was going to say, chuck, ive covered my share of proceedings in federal and state
courts. And so often have seen a judge say, counsel approach the bench, and kind of covers the microphone and has a little bit of a sidebar discussion. And thats happened to me too. I told a story earlier today where i accidentally, and it wasnt a crime against humanity, came back from lunch with a piece of chewing gum in my mouth and a federal judge in the Eastern District of virginia handed me a tissue, after asking me to come to the bench, and we discreetly took care of the problem. He didnt do it in front of the jury. These judges have to be so careful. The government has no appeal. For the defendant, its a matter of liberty or even life. The notion that you would put a finger on the scale, even accidentally im so glad we finally have
something on you. Its really unfair that the judge goes by t. S. , but its ellis, not elliott. That one is on me, i apologize. What do you make of the room, of the dynamic, and the reporters who have been saying today that hes unmistakably tough on the prosecution, do they have it about right . No question, brian, it was an extraordinary moment for everyone coming into the courtroom this morning for the judge to basically tell the jury to put out of their minds something that he in fact had said yesterday and to offer a semi apology. The one thing that i think we should definitely not lose sight of, though, is what precipitated this, which is actually a Government Request last night and early this morning where they said to the judge,
respectfully, your honor, if you review the transcript, you actually permitted this witness to be in the courtroom, you are incorrect and as a matter of fact we would actually like for you to alert the jury that youre mistaken. And thats really unusual. And one could read this one document, this one filing from the government, as actually sort of a broader request of the judge to say, there are many things that the judge has said that hopefully in the governments mind, the government would like to see undone or unwound. And chuck, something you just said has me going back to this, especially if youre in your
line of work, if youve ever been on jury duty, if youve ever watched the trial, the judge is really your conduit,s almost your Father Figure during the proceedings. He turns and addresses members of the jury. Hes your gobetween. You often see a trial in his or her lens. And so it is critical, i would love to be able to watch the jurors as they visually relate to this judge. Thats right. And look, for most people serving on a jury, its probably the only time, brian, theyve ever had that experience. They dont know what courtrooms are like, they dont know what prosecutors or Defense Attorneys are like. They certainly dont know what judge ellis is like. So what he says goes. I mean, not just as a matter of law but as a matter of fact. And if hes mad at the prosecutor, for instance, then maybe they are too. And so thats why a judge has to be so very careful. Remember, both sides are entitled to a fair trial, not just one, but both sides are entitled to a fair trial. I think judges that remain cognizant of that throughout the proceedings are really doing both sides a favor. Look, i like judge ellis. Hes a very smart judge. But sometimes he ought to just call balls and strikes and not try and play all nine positions on the field as well. And a civics reminder for all our viewers, federal judges have an awesome responsibility. Its why they have to be nominated by the president , approved by the senate, and then they are seated for life. Eric, one final note. Otherwise, prosecution had a very good day . Yes. So i would say that today got really back to the meat and potatoes part of this trial. We really saw the Building Blocks of the fraud, the Bank Fraud Allegations that make up a significant portion of this indictment. Youll remember, brian, that obviously the last several days have been focused on rather salacious allegations. Theres been discussions of Extramarital Affairs involving rick gates, who is the governments star witness. He had a fairly challenging crossexamination. Today there was none of that. This really got to the core of the governments case, and prosecutors really i think made some significant inroads in being able to establish that when Paul Manafort applied repeatedly for mortgages, for loans on his new york properties, he made what appeared to be false statements and in one instance, for instance, he alleged that this property was Owner Occupied when in fact they found it being listed as a rental. And so right away, manafort had an issue. So yes, i would say today was a fairly good day for the government. We are thankful for two of the very best guests to explain all of this as the man afor trial churns on. Gentlemen, thank you both. Coming up for us, with a couple of this weeks elections yet to be decided, republicans look to november. But do they all see the same thing about now . When The 11th Hour continues. Week, votes are still being counted tonight in a couple of those tuesday elections. Trumpendorsed candidate kris kobach lost half of his already narrow lead today in that kansas gop gubernatorial primary. The Washington Post reports that according to a votetallying error, kobachs lead over incumbent republican governor jeff colyer is just 91 votes. Kobach acknowledges the lead could change but he intends to keep campaigning. Hes Secretary Of State of kansas which means his office would oversee any policy recount. And tonight on Television Kobach said he would be happy to recuse himself in that event, although he reminded all of us, recounts are county by county affairs. You may recall he led President Trumps nowdisbanded commission
on election fraud. We are also still following that Special Election, the ohio 12th Congressional District. That race remains too close to call. If you were with us that night watching, Steve Kornackis coverage, you understand how that could be. Republican Troy Balderson is leading by less than 1 percentage point. And after republican new york congressman Chris Collins was arrested on Insider Trading charges yesterday, now new yorks 27th Congressional District could be up for grabs. Big area of real estate upstate. Collins, who pleaded not guilty, says hell be staying in that seat and his name will be on the ballot come november. So its a lot to talk about. Michael steele, former chairman of the republican national
committee, thats why hes smiling, i said former. And shannon pettypiece, White House Correspondent for bloomberg. Michael, im coming right at you. Yes. If you had your old job, other than looking for a new job, if you had your old job as party chairman, how worried would you be tonight . You see this . You had a full head of hair. Exactly. It would be like that. I would be very concerned at this stage. We are coming out of the summer, you know, doldrums, if you will, where folks dont Pay Attention to politics and its a little bit of a wasteland even though youve got primaries and all that going on. The fact of the matter is, from a party perspective, in terms of setting up the november campaign, you want the kind of momentum thats going to energize your base, get those dollars flowing, and really put
in place the messaging that you want to bring it home, right . It connects all those pieces. I call it the messenger, the message, and the money. And that combination is one that works to empower the base to go out and deliver that vote. In this case i was going to say, in this case, the fact that you have a red district like this that is that close, that the president won by 11 points in 2016, is a real problem. It will impact the money. It will impact the message. And it certainly will impact the messengers around the country who have to make that delivery. And forgive, michael, shannon, pick up right on what michael just said. Youve got this barn burner of a race in ohio that should be done and dusted, safe republican district, right into that we have the arrest of collins, 27th District of new york. It cant look good. Tell us about the folks youve been talking to. Well, i mean, within the white house, and within President Trumps outer circle, they are certainly aware that this does not look good. It is no shock to anyone that the ohio 12th district, as michael was explaining, if that is up for play, well, there is about 70 other house seats that are up for play too. And the democrats only need 23. And it is certainly not lost on the president or anyone in his inner circle of what a democraticcontrolled house means to them. It means investigations on everything from russia to the emoluments clause. It means the risk of impeachment which his lawyer Rudy Giuliani raised today with me, the fact that if there is something referred to mueller in a democratic house, that probably means impeachment. The president is very aware of this. What theyre going to do is still a question, because theres still a debate about whether or not the president is the greatest tool in the republicans toolbox, or, you know, their worst enemy. Michael, as Bumper Stickers go, if you had to design the gop Bumper Sticker to be used universally around the country in all 435 districts for the midterms, what would your terse message be to the voter . Who, me . Oh, man. Youre on fire tonight. That would be it. Because that sums up the state of the party right now, a party that has not really defined its relationship with the American People. It has clearly defined and continues to define its relationship with the president. And that is the problem. This has got to be about how the
American People view now, look, you dont have to go back that far in history, brian, to understand what this election looks like. It looks like 2006 in many respects. Its got elements of 2008 to it. Its got all of these pieces from the past where the party has dropped the ball, where it has not clearly defined itself with the American People or has defined itself in a way that the American People summarily reject. I said in 2006, running for the United States state, that it was
like running with a Scarlet Letter r on your chest, and it was. And we took a big drubbing. That Scarlet Letter r is back on our chests and like the American Flag when its in crisis, its upside down. Were going to have all these republicans on these ballots, are they all kind of ad libbing their association with the guy at the top of the ticket for republicans, being a part of the trump era gop . I mean, theyre really in a difficult situation. Because they need that trump base as a republican, you need that trump base to turn out. But thats not going to be enough to get you to beat the democrat on the ticket. You also need to get moderates and independents as well. I mean, thats what everybody across the country is struggling with. And i mean, to this Point Michael was just making about 2006, i hear a number of people referencing that. And with this indictment of
Chris Collins, it again looks more like 2006, because if you remember then, there was this wave of scandal seats that opened up, that people were able to move into. And there is a sense theres going to be more of these scandals bubbling. Now this party is not just associated with trump, but peoples questions, or this taint in their mind about corruption and concerns about Whats Going On in the republican party. Well have you both back to talk about this very same thing with our great thanks. Michael steele, shannon pettypiece, we appreciate you both coming on. As our guests just mentioned, 12 years ago democrats accused republicans of the Culture Of Corruption and took over congress. Why one conservative said today this is the age of corruption and cruelty. That when we come back. Remembered for, what is this the age of. Listening to the program today, these themes, this will be the age of corruption and cruelty. That got our attention today. Corruption and cruelty. Thats the conservative author and Radio Talk Show host charlie sykes, a friend of this broadcast, coming up with those two words that, again, he predicts will define this administration and this era at a point where were able to look at it in the rearview mirror. One illustration of this era was posted on twitter by aaron blake, senior political reporter over at the Washington Post. He wrote the following. Quote, list of people charged with and pleading to crimes. Trumps Second Campaign manager. Trumps Deputy Campaign manager. Trumps National Security adviser. Trumps Foreign Policy adviser. Trumps First Campaign manager, battery charges later dropped. Trumps first congressional endorser. Walter isaacson, a distinguished fellow of the aspen institute, if you ask me, hes a distinguished person of any kind. Biographer of franklin, einstein, kissinger, jobs, and da vinci and professor of history at tulane in his spare time. Welcome back to our studio. What do you make of his choice of those who words, corruption and cruelty . Theyre very simple words. Theyre very true. And they go to the heart of whats going to be a problem for this administration, because it is a lot of corruption. Just people at the trough, for money, simple corruption. And it gets you know, sleazy, congressmen on the white house lawn, getting phone calls to dump stock. And then you have cruelty, a country that is intentionally cruel to people. And just character, a lot of people lying to us. Our friend Steve Schmidt sees this as a lack of rigor, a lack of standards in all tiers of the trump operation. You know, when you set out to destroy norms, norms get destroyed. We have norms in our society, which is, you know, you dont sit at the trough trying to take money and being greedy and being corrupt. Thats why people voted for trump at first, they thought he was going to drain the swamp. The clintons got in trouble because they seemed greedy and there was a taint of corruption to the clinton foundation. So a lot of people voted against her, voted for trump. And you have him now and his whole administration, his family, trying to make money off of the presidency. And then you have that unnecessary bullying and cruelty. And here is what i think i think it will get to the heart of the problem, because americans deep down inside, theyre not cruel people. Were not corrupt people. And we try to at least feel we have some character. And so i think most americans, you know, certainly most republicans arent cruel, they
arent corrupt, yet theyre watching this happen. And youre starting to see the support seep away, i think. Were very proud of calling ourselves the most generous nation on earth, in fact. 44 years ago today, Richard Nixon lifted off the south lawn for the last time. The helicopter. Yes, and gerald ford talked about our Long National nightmare. Do you see, do you entertain any echoes of anything nixonian in what were witnessing now, as a Historian Yourself . Oh, absolutely. I mean, history never repeats itself, but as you know, twain said it rhymes, or perhaps you can say it echoes. The corruption now is sort of different, its sort of money grubbing, greedy corruption, to make money, emoluments as they call it, to make money out of their office. You see the same type of coverups and, frankly, lying. When somebody who is the president of the United States
says things that arent sure, that should still unnerve us a bit. And trump is much different from nixon, he kind of does it in public, which is try to obstruct justice. But its still very unnerving that youre breaking down the rule of law, especially when republicans had always been strong about the rule of law, always been strong against corruption, always, you know, been strong on character, which is the most important issue when we select our leader. Do you think, in 30 seconds or less, seeing this stuff in plain sight, is harder for us To Discern In The Public Realm when the president tweets something that he couldnt possibly have meant that. Well, of course he does. Thats a really good point, its hiding in plain sight. Its a coverup thats not a secret coverup. Its being done in plain sight. And its weird how our own Immune System to this types of thing gets a little bit jangled
when people do it in plain sight. Thank you. Great to see you. Those parents watching, send your kids to tulane, theyll get to sit in his class. Walter isaacson with us here in new york. Coming up, would you believe over a thousand dead in puerto rico as a result of Hurricane Maria . Its certainly now matching what the people on the ground there had been seeing and saying. Well explain when we come back. If you look at a real
ever seen anything like this, what is your death count as of this moment . 17 . 16, 17. 16 people certified. 16 people versus in the thousands. You can be very proud of all of your people, all of our people working together. 16 versus literally thousands of people. That was the president early on eager to diminish a humanitarian crisis. Eager to point out that while still sad, the loss of life in puerto rico was relatively minimal. Well, the new death count by the government of puerto rico has leaked out today. Of course, its staggeringly high. Over 1400 people are now believed to have lost their lives as a result of Hurricane Maria. Way higher than the official death toll of 64 lives lost. How else to explain a minimal loss of life when so many towns and villages and homes were cut off, not just in terms of Electric Power but completely cut off from the rest of the island from humanity. In the months since the storm, fema has admitted to being underprepared for the storm. Power, would you believe, still not completely restored on the island. One in ten Health Centers still running on generators. Just getting Street Lights up and on and operating was a huge struggle especially in parts of san juan. After the storm, some in the media wondered allowed if the president initially understood that puerto rico was a u. S. Territory and that all Puerto Ricans are u. S. Citizens. He was eager tore rate his own administrations response as 10 out of 10. Yes there have been other death toll estimates, one as high as 4,000. But this new Government Estimate of 1400 seems closer to the truth given the size and scope of this disaster. But this is interesting. Asked about the governments new death toll estimates, the Rolando Ortiz told nbc news the updated figure Still Doesnt Match what he lived. The numbers from the government seem low to me still but the reality is that the people who died died and its painful because those are human lives, but this is evidence of the governments inability to tell the truth. Thats the most terrifying news. Another break for our broadcast and coming up, its something the president has campaigned against loudly. Today it came to the rescue of his own inlaws when we continue. Treating cancer isnt one thing we do. Its the only thing we do. Expert medicine works here. Learn more at cancercenter. Com Cancer Treatment centers of america. Appointments available now. Last thing before we go here tonight has to do with one of those phrases, one of those causes the president is so fond of mentioning and often. End chain migration. Ending chain migration and canceling the visa lottery. We will get rid of chain migration. I started talking about chain migration. Chain migration. Chain migration is one of the disasters. Chain migration is a disaster. A disaster. A total disaster. We have to end chain migration. We have to end chain migration. If you guessed chain migration, you would be correct. Yet, chain migration is exactly
what led to melania trumps parents Donald Trumps inlaws, gaining their u. S. Citizenship today. Remember the first lady herself has only been a citizen for 12 years since 06. Born and raised in slovenia, our first ever naturalized citizen first lady. Her parents Immigration Lawyer admitted today that chain migration is the dirtier temple for what happened today. The New York Times was more direct. Their headline reads melania trumps parents become u. S. Citizens using Chain Migration Trump hates. Chain migration is bringing in. Many people and often it Doesnt Work Out very well. Those many people are not doing us right. America has twos new citizens, the parents of our first lady who also happens to be an immigrant though most around him believe the president s campaign against chain migration will likely continue. Thank you so very much for being
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