Say that. And did he ask you to pledge loyalty and there would be nothing wrong if i did say it according to everybody that i read today but i did not say that. And did he ask for a pledge of loyalty from you. Thats another thing he said. No, he did not. He said those things under oath. Would you be willing to speak under oath to give your version of events. 100 . I didnt say under oath. I hardly know the man, i didnt say i want you to pledge allegiance. Who would do that . Who would ask someone to pledge allegice under oath . Who would do that. It makes no sense. No, i didnt say that, i didnt say the other. If Robert Mueller wanted to speak to you about that. I would be glad to tell him exactly what i just told you. Seem to be hinteding there are recordings of those conversations. Im not hinteding anything. Ill tell you over a very short period of time. When will you tell us about the recordings. Over a short period of time. Are there take place, sir . You are going to be very disappointed when you hear the answer. Also today, the House Intelligence Committee moved forward on its investigation into all things russia related. The committees Top Republican and top democrat, congressman mike conaway and adam schiff of california announced they have sent out some letters. The first goes to james comey asking for any notes or memos he may have about his discussions with the president. Second letter to white House Counsel don mcgahn. That letter asks, are there recordings or memos of trumps conversations with james comey. If yes, the committee wants copies, as would the mueller investigation, and the senate Intelligence Committee investigation. Both comey and the white house in this case have until june 23rd to respond. Busier than average friday. Lets bring in our Starting Panel for tonight. Rick stengel is with us, former underseth for Public Diplomacy and Public Affairs at the United States state department in the obama administration. Practically anything but they are still voting for him. Some people have 10 loyalty mean if they sneeze in the wrong direction, they are gone. With me, i think i can do almost anything and you are with me. I have the most loyal people, did you ever see that, where i could stand in the middle of fifth avenue and shoot somebody and i wouldnt lose any voters, okay . Shannon, do you think he has a thing about loyalty . I think there are few mynx more important to him as far as qualities in a person than loyalty. You see it in his entire career. Coming up through his fathers business. Having family surrounding him in his business. This idea of family you can trust. They are loyal to you before all others. You mentioned roy coh his lon time lawyer. He said one of the qualities he admired most in him was his loyalty. Yes, i think loyalty is valued above all else for this president into rick, because of what the president kind of set up today, because of that valentine he mailed to mueller, we may have to take on this question of what makes a better witness. Youve been around james comey in public life. Weve all kind of been around the president. Back when he was just donald trump. Who makes the better witness . Well, i think thats pretty obvious. I mean the fact that he also take contemporaneous notes. I was in many meetings at the white house with jim comey. The thing about jim comey, that he does speak truth to power. Its very hard people dont understand how hard it is to disagree with a president of the United States or tell the president something that he doesnt want to hear. Jim comey was able to do that. I saw him do that many times. And he does with it the utmost take the bark off the tree honesty. Matt, this was, i hasten to remind everyone, infrastructure week and the head of Goldman Sachs lloyd blank fine is a very serious person by day. You know the argument is that Goldman Sachs supplied a lot of those Big West Wing jobs. But he delved into comedy this evening when he said just landed from china, trying to catch up, how did infrastructure week go . There is that subplot about this paralyzed west wing. Matt, is it true . I think its absolutely true. I think their Coms Director Resigned or was forced out about a week ago and we see they can push a consistent message. Yes some of that is because of the outside circumstances beuse of the investigations. But some of it is just thr ow incompetenc incompetence. They cant stay on message. The president doesnt seem to have interest in staying on message. As you pointed out, oh, i cant answer that question. He loves to jump into the scrum. Infrastructure week became laugh line this week. No one was talking about it. Mike pence said it was a banner week for infrastructure. Nobody took that seriously. Shannon, you like the others here work for a serious organization. Whats your belief, whats your knowledge about what donald trump, the president , president trump, wants to get done . Lets say between now and the July 4th Break for congress. Well i think he would like to get health care done, tax reform done, maybe get some money for wall in there. At this point, you know, everyone keeps talking about oh, they are creating distractions they are not talking about their agenda, they are not off message. At this point because they have a congress that they cant get to Work Together they dont have a great agenda. Health care is stalled in the senate. Et cetera a unclear they are going to come up with a bill that can pass the senate let alone the house. Tax reform is nowhere. They cant agree on that. Infrastructure if you want that, you have got to get money for that. You have fiscal conservatives in the congress who dont want to give you money and democrats who wont work for you. It would be great to be talking about message. They dont have a great agenda or message the talk about. Fine, Talk About Comey and russia, its better than talking about a Health Care Plan that kicks millions of people off of their insurance if you agree with the cbo report on it. Rick stingel, being an institutionalist has been fficult because of the deep state, the administrative state. I want to play something al franken said tonight about the institution of the presidency with this man in it. Look, i think he has devalued the presidency. I think that people go like, gee, anyone now could be president. Right now we have to take his word versus comeys word . Even his supporters said, well dont take him literally. Take him seriously. Right. This guy cant say anything with almost anything without lying. And that is a very sad state of affairs. Whether its hundreds of my friends died 9 11. We saw thousands of muslims cheering. You know the whole litany. Right. And its sad. Just sad. Powerful message there at the end. Yes, he defined the presidency downward. I actually think Going Forward there will have to start to be new tests for the presidency. Can anyone just run for president . Do you have to take an exam the way a new citizen does . Do you have to have a Mental Health evaluation . I think now the standards are all thrown out the window. One of the things i would say to him is when you are a president you have to get over yourself. And he can seem to get over himself. Any moment in that job he is always answering as a personal grievance. And thats what hes responding to. President s cannot do that. And yet he is mired and bringing the whole office downward. Matt in your phone calls and travels, is ere a recognition a realization among all but say one guy in the west wing about how bad this is, agenda was . Look, there is an understanding this is not going well. I think there was a little bit of happy talk yesterday, but more like it could have been worse. Yes, it is could have been worse but it was a train wreck for them. You had the fbi director all but accusing the president of obstruction of justice. Now the president has come out today and accuses the former fbi director of lying under oath. None of this is advantages health care or taxes or any of that stuff. Its going to become hard and harder for republicans to stick with president trump. One more point on credible. Trump is saying that flynn conversation didnt happen. Almost no one else is saying that. Thats not going to work as coherent message if they are not even backing him up on what factually occurred. Shannon, coming off the point that it was infrastructure week was this week, what is the plan finally. Hey ron theyre finally taking down that schwab billard. Oh, not so fast, carl. Oh no. Schwab,gain . Index investing for that low . Thats three times less than fidelity. And four times less than vanguard. Whats next, no minimums . No minimums. Schwab has lowered the cost of investing again. Introducing the lowest Cost Index Funds in the industry with no minimums. I bet theyre calling about the schwab news. Schwab. A modern approach to wealth management. State. Notes to a columbia Law Professor because he wasnt man enough to give the notes to give them directly to the media when he wanted them out to the media. The gop has got their villain in the russia investigation. It is the fired fbi director jim comey. Joining our conversation tonight charlie savage. Germane to this conversation, his piece tonight, trump calls comey a leaker. What does that mean. We are going to get to that in one seconds. And Peter Decidenberg is with us as well, former federal prosecutor and at the justice department, and deposit Special Counsel book in the Scooter Libby case during the bush 43 administration. Gentlemen welcome to you both. Charlie you saw the talking points. Theres a lot more where they came from. Interestingly, he is being called a leaker and his manhood is getting called out for the way he did it, through someone at columbia, putting a step between him and the material. Once and for all, doe this reach the standard definition of leaking from your article tonight . And does he face any legal exposure . Well, there is different kinds of leaks. A leak would be a surreptitious dissemination of information to the public without authorization. But that most of the time that is not illegal. In this case, that is not illegal. There is an attempt in this attempt to smear mr. Comey, to conflate his dissemination of his recollections of his conversations with trump with illegal leaks, custom is a very narrow band of information that the law says cannot be disclosed without becoming a felony. That has to do with National Security secrets that could hurt the country, essentially, classified information, although its not perfectly overlapping with that phrase. This was not classified. This was not National Defense information. It was not illegal. And the conflation of that is just nonsense and misleading. Peter, i want to read you a quote from the new york times. Its an opinion on the comey testimony. It says, comey set up so many Perjury Traps for them said a veteran Democratic Operatedive who serve as mrs. Clintons Communications Director during the 2016 campaign. How so . Can you explain that . Well, if donald trump were to try and refute the comey statement by going under oath i think that, at least from my perspective, it would a lot of chance of catching him in a committing perjury. And charlie, if you are Robert Mueller, if you are watching that News Conference in the rose garden today, is there any mechanism where you can do you rush this thing . Do you hurry up and get that invitation over to the white house saying id like to take you up on your offer . And you were so forceful in agreeing 100 to come talk to us, perhaps we can interview you the first of several times, you dont mind if we call you back with more questions . I think you are putting your finger on the tricky issue that bob mueller the Special Counsel leading this Russia Plus Obstruction probably investigation is going to have to weigh. You dont get a lot of shots at the president when you are in that position. You are lucky to get one and to get him under oath if the president follows through on what he said. But trump may have just said some words off the cuff that he didnt really mean once his lawyers get to him and explain to him that that might not be such a good idea. I would imagine that mueller thinks he is only going to get one shot at that. And he probably wants the know everything he can learn from everybody else before he goes into the oval office and sits down with the president to bounce what he thinks he knows off of the president s recollections. And peter, do you think if the president had run that by his defense lawyer, any lawyer would have advised him in a public forum to go out and freely offer his sworn testimony under oath to the Special Counsel looking into his affairs and administration . No, im sure his attorney was cringing to ar him say that. I have to agree with charlie on this, though. I dont imagine that bob mueller is going to take up the president on his offer at this time. I think he will in due course. But like charlie was saying, he is going to have one shot at this and he is not going to be asking him exclusively about those conversations with jim comey. Thats one aspect this case. He is going to want to ask him about everything. He wants to do that at the ends of his investigation, not at the outset, which is where we are at right now. Peter, what are your questions after this week . We have learned a lot in the public forum. What questions do you think they have gotten to right now in the investigation . Well, i would be very interested in getting a statement under oath from the dni, coats, and Admiral Rogers. They were the ones who were ducking the questions by the Senate Committee earlier in the week. And their responses to those questions, getting their answers on the record about whether the president asked them to intercede with comey regarding flynn is really important. Because right now the way some are spinning it, this is a he said he said type dispute between comey and trump. I dont really see it that way. With comey, you have one, you have contemporaneous notes. And also, lets say tha coats and Admiral Rogers basically corroborate what jim comey has to say. Well at that point it isnt really one persons testimony against another. Its one persons testimony against the other, buttressed by a lot of corroborating evidence. At that point it is a very plausible case i think for mueller to make another Obstruction Case if trump were to say that for instance in the grand jury. Gentlemen, we thank you for joining us on a friday night after a long week. We commend you, charlie savage, on your piece in times on a very timely topic now that comey has been labeled a leaker with a certain percentage of the population. Thank you both so much. When we come back, why some words from the president at the lectern today sounded so familiar to so many who have covered him. Think again. This is the new new york. We are building new airports all across the state. New roads and bridges. New mass transit. New business friendly environment. New lower taxes. And new University Partnerships to grow the businesses of tomorrow today. Learn more at esd. Ny. 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If youd rather be home, ask your doctor about Neulasta Onpro. Let us be lovers, well marry our fortunes together ive Go Rt Someeal tate here in my bag so i looked at the scenery. She read her magazine. The allnew volkswagen atlas. Covered from coast to coast with americas best bumpertobumper limited warranty. Of romania. It is something he has done repeatedly since election night. Sometimes when asked by reporters about completely different topics. And sometimes in completely unexpected places. We had a massive landslide victory, as you know in the Electoral College. We were unbelievably successful in the election with getting the vote of the military, and probably almost everybody in this room voted for me. We are you know, very honored by the victory that we had, 306 Electoral College votes. We were not supposed to crack 220. You know that, right . I like the state of south carolina. I like all those states where i won by double, double, double digits. You know, those states. Its impossible for a republican to win. Not only did i win, i won easily. So they made up this russia thing to try and deflect because they are embarrassed by what happened. The russia is a phony story. Joining our panel, jamil smith, Senior National correspondent for mtv news. We welcome him back with us. He is of course is former colleague of ours here at msnbc. And Matthew Nussbaum has decided to stick around for extra punishment on a Hot Friday Night here in new york city. 141 days into this. For how long and i dont mean this in a snide way is the Trump Base Going to believe that its just on a winning circulation here . Well, i think first things first. We have to really understand that the most damn damning thing that james comey said yesterday was about russia. And about russia influencing our elections and the fact that there was no doubt, its undisputed that that happened. What we have here is not just a president who is bragging about his victory. But he is also in dereliction of his duty 678 his duty as president needs to be if this in fact happened and the former fbi director is saying that it did, his duty needs to be investigating this and getting to the bottom of that influence and making sure that in the next election it doesnt happen again. And to your point, the memories and maybe transcripts of that dinner should be peppered with questions the president is peppering the fbi director with, how do we root out and find all this russian influence in our democracy, how doway make sure this doesnt happen again when americans go to the polls. Instead, he is worry about himself, his own reputation, how it looks for him. I think donald trump understands that in his heart of hearts that his vick eastree is illegal legitimate. With the help of the runs and with help of Voter Suppression from his own party he was able to win all these states. Listen, listen, his victory, its been certified. Nobody is questioning his victory. I dont understand why people are questioning it. What we are questioning is what brought his victory about. He should be just as concerned about that as an american as we are. Matt, in 2018, heres a little civics lesson, 435 house seats, the entire house, is up for reelection. It will take a difference of 24 flipped from where they are now to hand the gavel to nancy pelosi of the democrats. Eye imagine these are some desperate hours for a lot of Republican House incumbents right about now. I think thats true. I think for them its a scary time. Theres a lot of questions from health care. That bill is extremely unpopular. To this russia scandal, how much thats going to spread and taint them. But its also important to remember this is not the first time weve said hey if a few things go right for the democrats they will take back the house. There was even talk in 2016 that they might be able to do it. The way the districts are set up. The way the republicans have come to dominate in niece rural areas its really hard for democrats to take back the house. If they can do well in this Georgia Sixth election thats coming up, that may be a sign that they are able to translate the antitrump sentiment into real victories. Do you think there is a Permanent Base . Lets give it a number, 34, 36 , thats kinds of the subflooring . Ye, i think matew made a good point, in fact the Jerry Mannedering of these districts, the way theyve been twisted and turned so they can exclude primarily africanamerican voters but any other ethnic group identified as democratic. These district are engineered for republican victory. It may not matter what this administration does, but it may only matter what voters turn out. I keep hearing because this campaign was built in a nontraditional way, there are campaign volunteers who are going to have to have legal fees despite receiving no compensation. But because they had exposure to things that will get them called for questioning . Yeah, which is sort of a sad side to all of this. Even lower level staffers at the white house will likely have to lawyer up. Probably anyone who rode on a plane with Michael Flynn during this election. Thats the way the Special Counsel probes work, especially when the questions are as broad as they are here, when there are as many people involved. The tentacles kind of stretch out. Its unfortunate that lot of people who probably had very little to do with the russians and didnt have any meetings that they didnt report are going to have to ep up larry king lawyering up because of all of this. I want to thank jemile smith, matt nussbaum, both of you for joining us tonight for our conferring. Terrific segment. Thank you both gentlemen. Well be right back, the trump effect on the Election Results we are seeing out of uk. Times up, insufficient prenatal care. And administrative paperwork. 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Labor partys Jeremy Corbin was th spoiler. Like Bernie Sanders state side, he energized a lot of young voters, many of whom were uneasy on the brexit vote and the brexit talks. The election is another blow to president trumps antiglobalist message after the loss of marine le pen in france and could be a preview of what is to come in germany as Angela Merkels popularity is surging a bit as she sheeks a fourth term. It all seems very complicated but at the same time is actually very simple. Im joined by juliet tett. And nile stand itch. White house correspondent for the hill. Julie, you get the task of explaining to u. S. A. Audience what a Hung Parliament is, how you can be Prime Minister may, remain in office, but maybe not remaining in office. Whats going happen . Essentially, what has happened is that she needed to win a clear majority of all the seats in parm to be able to rule without having to go into coalition. And she has failed to do that. And that is a huge shock. So essentially thats what they mean by the Hung Parliament. And the only way that she stays in charge is essentially by forming an alliance with the duc d. U. P. Of north ireland. Looks like they have a deal to form that grouping. But the u. P. Said they want to have a curtains union to ensure they can continue doing their business. That totally flies in the face on the line the government has been taking on brexit. The bigger problem though is that essentially british people have said they are not pleased with what theresa may is doing. She has really lost credibility. What is really striking has been this huge explosion of the youth voting saying very clearly, we dont like the status quo. In some ways theresa may is an awful lot like Hillary Clinton. Clinton campaigned on the slogan, stronger together. Theresa may tried to say she was strong and stable. But that was really all about the status quo which young people have said no to. Knile, forgive an ignorant sounding question. Can there be a redo on the brexit vote . Is that fixable . Changeable, at this point . Theoretically, it is possible, brian. But it isu highly unlikely for a couple of reasons. Obviously, the conservatives remain very firmly probrexit. But the labor party kind of sat on the fence on this issue, to be honest. It was only the liberal democrats, the third and smallest of the main parties in england that was really answer brexit in a very definitive way. So some form of brexit will go ahead. Mr. Corbin, the labor leader was favoring a softer approach to that in terms of the negotiations which are only, brian, about ten days away, the beginning of those negotiations so that really points to the importance of all this uncertain that we are seeing. Theres a short fuse. Andrew sullivan has written who is to my eyes just a superb piece in new york magazine. For admittedly an american audience explaining what weve witnessed here and in the uk. Ill quote from a part of it. This week trump slumped to the lowst Approval Ratings of his term, in upper to mid 30s while being called liar by the former head of the fbi. And Prime Minister may was humiliated by the brirt voters in a snap election. In the wake of brexit and trump, the forces of reaction in europe have also seemed to recede. Jillian, do you agree with that, we are we were seeing kind of a dark wave for a while. I think whats particularly interest is that on sunday france going to the pollsen again to see whether parliament will back the election of macron earlier this year. Macron is a centrist candidate. Very much a globalist. He wants to forge ties with the rest of the european union. But he did that by attentionly creating a new party. He essentially created this whole new movement seemingly out of nowhere. Its a very positive way of saying no to extremism, no to nationalism, but not doing that within the old wrappers of politics, finding a whole new vehicle, if you like, to express a centrist liberal globalist point of view. And i think thats got a lot of lessons for t rest of the Western World right now. Because people can look at the republicans and democrats and say well they are both pretty broken. They can look at the Uk Political Scene and say the tories and the labor party neither looks convincing. Maybe its time to start looking for new political vehicles like in france. Knile, you know we are americans, we need things explained in paper terms. Do you buy that theresa may could be the Hillary Clinton figure and corbin could be the Bernie Sanders . I do like that comparison. The actual victor in the election is clearly mr. Corbin. He is Eye Delogically and temperamentally completely opposite to someone like donald trump. What he and trump have in commons is this capacity to present themselves as antiestablishment, antistatus quo. In his policies hes much more like a Bernie Sanders figure. He shares those kinds of insurgent values. He starked the kind of Youth Enthusiasm that we saw here. I think there are a lot of comparisons. One of them also, brian, being this. I think increasingly debatable idea that more centrist candidates are axiomatically more electionible. I think that thesis as it applies either in britain or the United States is increasingly questionable these days. Want to thank you both. While the jet age has shortened the pond sometimes politically we seem worlds apart and hard to understand. You have helped us out greatly tonight. We would love to have you back. Thank you very much. When we come back, it was something the president said in the rose garden today that reminded a lot of people about something we had heard from a president named Richard Nixon. 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That was president Richard Nixon a year before he resigned the presidency talking to his staff from the rose garden after spending a week in the hospital with pneumonia. Between pneumonia and he had a lot of ailments. In addition to having such political problems all amidst wat watergate hearings. A similar seen during the Press Conference with visiting romanian president. We are joined tonight by nbc news president ial historian michael beschloss. For History Geeks it is just fantastic. What is old is new again. I talked to a great fan of Yours Tonight who said find a way to talk about how we have never seen anything like these times. Are you amazed by the speed of it . The fact that there are democrats working on an Obstruction Case as we speak tonight . So early in president trumps term. This is really a speed record. In nixons case watergate did not kick in until at least four years into that term. The thing is absolutely amazi. He has not really had a presidency n under the cloud of a scandal of some time. Very different for Richard Nixon. About our last segment, the fact that our politics washes across the pond and the fact that it is all kind of interrelated, do you buy that while you and i have had conversations about what sounded like a wave with very dark echoes especially in europe, we have 100,000 Holocaust Survivors left alive today and sure sounded like we were going backwards. Do you think the tide may be turning a bit back the other way now . I think perhaps so. We sure saw that in the election in france. You have to have hope that that does happen. I think the fascinating thing i was watching that you and i had not had a chance to talk since Election Results in england. One thing we dont have in england and the United States is a president on the night of his election having to stand next to his opponent next to an Opponent Call called lord buckethead. I will suggest it and you can back me up. Something we say a lot around here and that is republicans were the heroes of watergate. It deserves to be pointed out often. Do you think given the fact that we are going into some tumlt in washington where you are its already loaded and on its way. Do y think we have states Men And Women Today W are up to the challenge in both houses of congress . I think we do although even in watergate Times Members of Richard Nixons own party were reluctant to come out against him until 1974. One of the things that turned it were two or three special elections which went in the direction of democrats had been expected to be republican and the republicans began to get very nervous and a little more courageous. But the big thing as you well know that turned everything was the tapes coming back to what you said at the beginning. Without those tapes Richard Nixon might not have been driven out of office. That decision was made just before that video you showed at the beginning of the segment. He was in the hospital and debating whether to have tapes destroyed or not. Nixon made the decision to provide him some kind of protection. You wish that donald trump knew a little bit more about history than just his own experience in what he experiences through friends and family because i think every other president probably from gerald ford through barack obama in some lobe of their brain are remembering what happened to nixon that he was nailed for obstruction of just skps they certainly never would have great author and great friend thank you for coming on on a friday night. Good to see you. Coming up after our final break, trumps goto promise delivering something in the near future. Back with more on that right after this. Theres nothing more than my vacation. Me so when i need to book a hotel room, i want someone that makes it easy to find what i want. Booking. Com gets it. They offer free cancellation if my plans change. Visit booking. Com. Booking. Yeah. 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If you have a sudden decrease or loss of hearing or vision, or an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. Ask your doctor about cialis. Do tapes exist of your conversations with him . I will tell you about that maybe sometime in the very near future. Seem to be hinting that there are recordings. I will tell you over a very short period of time. Do you have a question here . When will you tell us . Fairly short period of time. Fairly short period of time. Last thing before we go. President trump in the rose garden saying he will let america know if there are tapes of his conversations with james comey very short period of time in the very near future, a timeline we have heard from mr. Trump before. Even a cursory review of his rhetorical history reveals its a mythical date in the future that often has no basis in reality. His grandmother in kenya said he was born in kenya and i was there and i witnessed the birth. She is on tape. I think that tape will be produced. They said my wife might have come in illegally. Can you believe that one . They said headlines maybe she came in illegally. Maybe. Let me tell you one thing. She will have a little News Conference over the next couple of weeks. We are building a wall. It will start soon. We want america still made in america. You will be hearing more about this in the very near future. I think we are going to have great legislative victories in the very near future. One is health care and one is tax reform. The answer to if the