Transcripts For MSNBCW News Nation 20151007

radioactive material. he it made enough to contaminate several city blocks and he specifically sought a buyer from isis. the ap says it was 1 of at least 4 attempts intercepted by authorities of smugglers working mostly in the nation of moldova. another plot involves this man who reportedly told investigators he was attempting to sell uranium to isis for $35 million. the most serious case involves a ringleader known as the colonel. he managed to get away with his partner who wanted to annihilate america. he's now out of prison. joining me now, one of the reporters who broke this story, the ap's chief correspondent in turkey, desmond butler. obviously your story has not only shook the people here in the u.s., it has certainly sent tremors worldwide considering the location of moldova and some ties allegedly to agents or former agents of the kgb. start with where these people would get this materiel. >> well, as you know, russia has a vast store of cold war era nuclear supplies, and these materials, unfortunately, leaked out to some extent and we don't know to what extent. >> for years, you and i both know we've talked about this notion of a dirty bomb, the suitcase bomb that could possibly be available. at time we talked a lot about al qaeda. now this report mentions isis. but nevertheless, extremists who see the west as enemies here. what we're talking about in some cases is a sample of the materiel actually recovered in these busts that leads one to wondzer where the rest of it is now. >> well, that's right. in most of the busts that i was writing about, key members of the rings got away and the busts were wrapped up after a sample was exchanged. so we just don't know if there is more materiel in the hands of the people who got away. >> well, we know that the fbi, per our own pete williams who's talked with a few sources, the fbi apparently is stressing it is not clear that the smugglers really did have the nuclear materials. but your reporting indicates otherwise. >> well, they distinguish between bomb grade nuclear materiel and radioactive materiels. in one of these cases, the ring did offer a sample of bomb-grade materiel and that was confirmed. we don't know they were offering a much larger amount of 10 kilos or more. we don't know if they had that or if it was a bit of a scam. >> obviously a lot of talk about the relationship between president obama and putin. all of it playing out with the u.n. general assembly and this actually hovers over whether or not there will be cooperation between russia and the west in furthering these investigations here as reported in your piece. >> yeah, that's right. i mean in the immediate post cold war period there was really a lot of cooperation and we in the west had a certain amount of visibility into the security situation in russia. with the souring of relations, it's really not clear if that's still true. >> as pointed out, many of these people have been identified as russian gang members. as mentioned, one of them said to be set free and is out there perhaps doing the same thing here. but when you think of russian mobsters or gangsters, if you want to call them that, you often think of human trafficking and other crimes. but they seem to have a stronghold at least in this region on this activity. >> that's right. there is a lot of organized crime in that region. they're doing all kinds of criminal activity from counterfeiting to smuggling of cigarettes, and lord knows what else. and this -- they seem to see this as another lucrative business. there also seems to be an y ideological component to it. >> desmond, it is a compelling story. thank you very much form joining me. mpl developing now, doctors without borders is now appealing for an international commission to investigate possible war crimes charges following the u.s. air strike that killed 22 people at its hospital in afghanistan. at a news conference just this morning a few hours ago in geneva, switzerland, the group's international president insisted investigations by the u.s., nato and afghanistan cannot be trusted and dismissed the u.s. claim that the hospital was attacked by mistake. >> it is not about mistakes. it is about intentions, facts, and why. today we say -- enough. even war has rules. >> doctors without borders is also holding a news conference right now in its headquarters here in new york. we are monitoring that news conference. meantime, "the new york times" reports today that the u.s. commander in afghanistan, general john campbell, believes the u.s. "probably did not follow their own rules in launching the air strike." joining me by known phone, "new york times" national security reporter matthew rosenburg, co-writer of the "times" report. matthew, thanks for joining us. >> thanks for having me on. >> what's been consistent here is the statements and details and facts as the international president of doctors without borders pointed out. their version has not changed but we've seen a series of changes in different statements on the u.s. side, on the u.s. military side. i think that remains the major question this morning still. >> yeah. the u.s. has been consistent mainly in its inconsistency here. there are so many questions about this that have yet to be answered. i think a lot of people understand the military has its procedures, but this is a hospital. this is a huge mistake of immense proportions. it could very well amount to a war crime. the answers need to come quickly. i think the question with any independent investigation, general campbell, the commander of u.s. forces, he hasn't ruled it out when he's been asked about it. the question is what access will they be given? will they get the audiotapes and footage and kind of modern equipment in the ac-130 gunship so they know the radio communications, what they were seeing? if they can't get these things though, they can't really investigate. >> two key questions here with the doctors without borders team saying that this was no the a mistake, that in fact it was not an error, what then do they believe happened here? why would a hospital known to everyone, an organization known internationally, be attacked? >> you know, they're not saying what they think the intention was here. and we don't know. i mean i think it's pretty clear that the hospital was the intended target. the people targeting it know twras a hospital? we don't know that and what was their intent. that's what this investigation is supposed to find out. those are two questions. you know this is a hospital, why did you attack it? if there were people firing from it, could you withdraw safely? unleashing a gunship on a hospital is an enormous step. how likely were these decisions made? these are all issues that need to be answered and the u.s. military needs to account for since this is clearly not collateral damage, can't just be chalked up to, well, it's war, people get killed. it's not that simple and will not go away. >> matthew rosenberg, thank you very much. presidential candidate ben carson is facing major backlash this time after controversial comments he made about last week's school shooting in oregon. dr. carson doubling down on comments saying the victims at umpqua community college could have didn't more to protect themselves. >> if a gunman walks up to you and asks what religion are you? >> i'm glad you asked that question. not only would i probably not cooperate with him, i would not just stand there and let him shoot me. i would say, hey, guys, everybody attack him, he may shoot me but he can't get us all. >> take action. >> exactly. >> when he was asked to clarify this morning, carson had this to say. >> from the indications that i got, they did not rush the shooter. the shooter can only shoot one person at a time. he cannot shoot a whole group of people. and so the idea is overwhelm him so that not everybody gets killed. >> those comments come as new polling shows carson is second place behind donald trump in three key swing states -- florida, ohio and pennsylvania. joining me now, gop communications strategist lee carter. so lee, i've had people say on social media he was asked the question and he gave the honest answer. at least from his perspective. is that enough? >> no. it's not enough. i did run a poll last night. we tested overnight how people reacted to it. part of what we have is carson's delivery is so therapeutically neutral, it almost takes you a while to catch up to what did he just say. reaction was plretty flat. people were saying, wait a minute, did he just say that? carson can get away with things other people can't but i think the problem he'll have is the collection of all of these things will eventually catch up with limb. the polls that we are seeing right now i don't think yet have all of these things that he's had sticking to him yet but we're going to see that over time. >> when you say he can get away with things that other people can't, we often hear that about donald trump. i know with carson you are referring to him say -- his comments about a muslim president. he said other things regarding jail makes you gay, some other things that people have deemed unusual or controversial. but, in this case, saying that people who were gunned down, innocent people, should have done something different or he would have somehow been able to save the day, does that fall into a different question of sensibility in a person who, while very measured, had another opportunity and it and still showed than antiseptic, as you refer to, doctor's tone that some might describe it as. >> i think this is a whole different category. i think this is showing something that other things just didn't. this shows something that's completely insensitive. the other comments are insensitive but they're not personally insensitive. you are talking about individuals dha are going through this right now. people that are dead today. i think for that, it's incredibly incensensitive and i think americans should be upset. >> does he backtrack at this point? he was on cbs this morning saying the same thing and ultimately, which is the big question, will it have any impact on where he stands right now in the polls? >> i don't think he can backtrack. i think he has to double down and i think that's what we're seeing the candidates do over and over again. he's got to keep to this is what he's going to say. is it going to have an impact on the polls? i think so. i think we're seeing a lot of things shift. one of the things that i do see about carson is his support is somewhat soft. unlike trump where his support is really strong, people are like i love that guy, people are like i'm interested in carson, i like what he says to say, he has a different approach. but it is not this vehement motion. when people go to consider him, i think they'll also consider someone else. also new developments in the speculation over a possible run by joe biden. the group draft biden is out with its first national tv ad urging the vice president to enter the 2016 presidential race. the emotional 90-second ad posted online just this morning focuses on biden's personal story of trying to overcome tragedy in his family. it uses audio taken from a commencement address given by biden earlier this year shortly before his son beau died of brain cancer. >> by focusing on my sons, i found my redemption. many people have gone through things like that. my dad's definition of success is when you look at your son and daughter and realize they turned out better than you. and they did. >> the ad ends with text that reads simply "joe run." it debuts on cable tv the same day as the democratic debate. all comes amid pushback by biden's team to an explosive report on politico accusing the vice president of leaking the story about his son's dying wish to "the new york times" for political purposes. a spokesperson for biden calls the report categorically falls. joining me now, managing editor of bloomberg politics, mark halperin. i want to talk to you about this focus group you and john heilemann put together. first this draft biden ad that's coming out at this point, does that hurt or help in that it seems you have people encouraging joe biden but it is so clear that he is still on the fence and the time is not on his side. >> well, tamron, i think anything that shows that joe biden has grassroots support is good for creating a possible run. there's no doubt that a conventional way for him to run for this office would be to get in soon. he's not going to get in before the first debate it seems. but there's a scenario in this crazy political year where maybe he waits until next year to get in. maybe he waits to see who wins the new hampshire primary, the iowa caucuses. in the era of trump, the era of bernie sanders, of ben carson all doing well, i think biden's folks think this could be an unpredictable thing. he doesn't have a campaign account. he's raised no money. he's got no infrastructure. so this group that's trying to draft him into the race i think is very good for him. >> i asked the question, maria shriver was on during our coverage, i guess it was last week, she said people should be aware of these draft said candidate movements, speaking about her own family, and of course her uncle ted. >> well, look. like i said, the vice president needs some infrastructure. it's right that some people in the past have had these draft movements. but joe biden has run for president twice, he's run for vice president twice. he gets the joke. he understands what's involved here. most of what's going on here now is the personal consideration. the question of whether his family and the vice president himself are up to the emotional and time commitment involved in running and serving. but there are the nuts and bolts and this draft committee only helps with that. >> let's get to the focus group because they always set off a huge debate and conversation. first, your group talking about joe biden. let's play it. >> i just don't feel like his -- the fire is there. its it's not catching some of the other candidates. >> i worry about his temperament a little bit and some of the decisions that he makes. >> i have to tell a personal story. our son died. i know there's no way that he could focus on what he needs to focus on for five years probably. >> so, mark, that's a sampling but what's the headline from what you've heard? >> the headline from the focus groups we did monday night, one group of democrats in iowa, one in new hampshire is, they're very unsupportive of the notion of joe biden running. they weren't against joe biden but they didn't see why he was needed in the race. they want to see the candidates who are already in the arena have a chance. a lot of them felt his personality wasn't suited to run. you heard that one woman quite emotionally say after losing a son, she thinks the vice president's going to need five years to ajust to dealing with anything, let alone holding the highest office in the land. that's different than what you'd see in the polling where there does seem to be support for the vice president. in many ways he's supportive. his advisors say if he gets in the race, a lot of the doubts about him that you heard in those focus groups would be quickly erased. >> let me play what the focus group had to say about bernie sanders. >> describe a sanders presidency. >> more people oriented. the revolution stuff i think is awesome. >> he tries to get people involved as he's not going to do it all. let's all work on this together and i think that's the kind of thing people want to be involved in. >> it is funny when you look at him, he's hunched over. he looks like an old dude. i mean he looks old. but the stuff he says, he's in touch with i think a lot of the things we're thinking about. >> so, mark, some of those things that those people said they are thinking about. how does that translate to what we'll see in that first debate from bernie sanders? >> well, bernie sanders' positions, he's a socialist and some people in the clinton camp say he's too far to the left. but in both iowa and new hampshire a lot of people thought the things they knew about bernie sanders, they liked a lot. they like his position, for instance on income inequality. they like his position on aff d affordability for college. hillary clinton will have a real challenge in the debate figuring out how to go after sanders and make a contrast without it being personal and without alienating people on the far left -- the energized part of the democratic party. the other big thing about sanders in the groups was, they all think that he's got a chance to win. either iowa caucuses, new hampshire primary or even be the nominee. that's a big change, they all acknowledge, from just a few months ago when everybody said well i might like sanders but clinton's going to win so we're going to be for clinton. >> such an interesting focus group. mark, thanks for making time for us. thanks to you soon. let me bring in democratic strategist robert zimmerman. you've been a hillary clinton supporter in the past. >> i am now. >> you still are. what position now are you in when you hear the focus group applaud bernie sanders on being more people oriented. as to mark's point, they feel that he's talking more about affordable college, even though hillary clinton is as well. inequality in the workplace. topics that his home close to her but his message seems to be resonating more. >> within that same focus group many members praised lshillary clinton for her experience and her vision for the future. in one of the focus groups, not sure if it was iowa or new hampshire -- they made the point they were tired about the e-mai e-mails, they want the media to cover more of her policy positions. >> hillary clinton, three words or fewer. >> experience. and knowledge. >> i would say experience and caring. >> hillary clinton. >> probably win. >> still impressive. >> i like hillary. i think she's a strong candidate. but she has that -- >> i don't think you have to that have. >> she has that condescending and i can see that causing gridlock. >> he was the same person who said bernie sanders looks old but he's in touch with a lot of things. >> he's the therapist of the group. >> with that said, strategiwise with this first debate, we expect that the republicans will slug it out. when secretary clinton was asked about bernie sanders in her town hall she said i'll leave it to ber in i to tad bernie to talk his own strategy. >> that's the smartest strategy. democrats aren't looking to replicate the republican strategy of name calling and personal attacks and the democratic party wouldn't tolerate it. you really have an important debate of ideas going on in the democratic party. that's what defines the discussion. in many respects, hillary clinton is with bernie sanders and bernie sanders is with hillary clinton on many issues involving income inequality and college affordability. i think discussion will come down to who can be most effective at getting this done. >> i think that was the strategy going in with the democratic party, maybe bernie sanders would challenge her to be a better candidate. that was before 20,000 people showed up at the venue in boston. the same venue that barack obama brought from 10,000 people to. so the stakes are higher now for bernie sanders. even he says he's surprised by the success he's had with reaching this huge group of people. >> look. i'm one of the democrats from the very beginning who says this was never going to be a koernatikoer coronation. this was always going to be a race. in many respects while the republicans may need anger management therapy, my party occasionally needs group therapy to work through some of the different issues we have but i think what unites us is so much stronger than what divides us. we're going to see an argument how to restrengthen the middle class and join the economy. >> thanks. day three of major concerns in south carolina as communities downstream brace for new flooding today, this as evacuations continue this morning. and a water rescue just a short time ago. and this -- >> a market that comes to south africa who pays the money for a guaranteed hunt and he can get lion and it whatever else he wants. >> an explosive new investigation takes us inside the underground world of hunting captive lions. these lions bred solely so they can 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(girls sing) safelite repair, safelite replace. developing now. a race against time in south carolina. desperate search is under way for two missing people. about a half-hour from columbia, south carolina. their truck went around a barricade earlier this morning. three people got out but two are right now still unaccounted for. residents in the suburb near the beaver dam have just been told they can go back to their homes after being evacuated early this morning. crews have been piling 400 tons of rock into the dam all night long to keep it stabilized. that dam holds 91 million gallons of water and if it breaks, threatens about 1,000 homes. msnbc's sarah dallof joins us now from columbia where we see sun there, finally, but certainly a lot of destruction behind you. >> reporter: that is correct, tamron. don't let this sun fool you. the danger here in columbia is not over yet. first of all, we want to show you those live pictures of the search for those two missing people. they were in a pick-up truck. the pick-up truck reportedly crossed a barricade that had been set up and swept away. three people were able to get out but the search continues. crews are looking for those two missing people. the death toll across south carolina currently stands at 15. a lot of these people were in vehicles when their cars were swept away or flooded by water. so still a very dangerous situation here as that search continues. want to bring you back here live to the clean-up effort that's going on amidst flash flood warnings and all of these concerns about the dam. you can see the extent of all of the damage here. people's entire homes, their entire lives emptied on to their front lawns so people can go over what's salvageable and what is a complete loss. a very emotional process for homeowners. you can see here, some of these things can be replaced, but family photos covered by layers of mud may be damaged forever. it will be a very long-term clean-up effort here. still a very ongoing and very dangerous situation. >> thank you very much. up next -- a florpd principprinc florida pra principal of hypnotizing students and one of the students committed suicide. now the school is settling with the families. a bizarre story we are updating around "news nation." plus the largest mass prison release in u.s. history. nearly 6,000 felons are set to be released from prison by the justice department. it is an effort to ease overcrowding and harsh penalties but now some law enforcement are expressing serious concerns. earn once when you buy, and again as you pay. that's cash back now, and cash back again later. it's cash back déjà vu. the citi double cash card. the only card that lets you earn cash back twice on every purchase with 1% when you buy and 1% as you pay. with two ways to earn, it makes a lot of other cards seem one sided. was going to clean if an better than a manual? 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you remembered. it's good. does it make the short list? you remembered that too. yea, i'm afraid so. knowing our clients personally is what we do. it's okay. this is what we've been planning for. thanks, bye. and with over 13,000 financial advisors, we do it a lot. it's why edward jones is the big company that doesn't act that way. it's being called the largest mass prison release in u.s. history. civil liberties and other advocacy groups are among those praising the obama administration's decision announced late yesterday to release some 6,000 non-violent inmates from federal prison. however, some law enforcement officials are expressing concerns. the prisoners all drug offenders are scheduled to be set free between october 30th and november 2nd. it is part of an effort to ease overcrowding and roll back harsh penalties given to non-violent drug offenders in if the '80s and '90s. that effort even has strong bipartisan support in congress. joining me now, mary price, an attorney for the group families against mandatory minimums, a leading advocate for federal sentencing and prison reform. mary, thank you so much for your time. >> thank you so much for having me. >> let's start with the concern from some law enforcement officials say that homicide rates have increased in some of our nation's largest cities and they're worried or concerned that when you free these people, that this potentially will run up crime. >> thank you. that's a good question to start out with. these 6,000 people who are being released have all of them been considered very carefully by federal prosecutors, by probation officers, and ultimately by the judge who ordered their early release. they're being released pursuant to a decision made over a year ago by the u.s. sentencing commission to lower federal drug sentences. and then to make those new lower sentences available to people sentenced under the older, longer sentences. the commission set that decision off for than entire year to allow the system to prepare for this release. so for the past year, federal prosecutors, federal public defenders and courts have been processing motions and applications from prisoners. they have been working the prisoners and the federal bureau of prisons have been working together to prepare for re-entry, and probation officers have been preparing to receive these people back into the community and begin the court-ordered supervision that each and every one of them is subject to for three to five years. >> you talk about preparing for re-entry. i'm sure you saw the vice news appreciation on federal prisons, the president of the united states being the first to go inside one of those facilities and talk to inmates. one of the current themes throughout that piece was the re-entry. they spoke with one guy who was beating the pavement every day. he had a checklist of places he'd gone and put in an application and for months and months got "no" as an answer because he will to also indicate that he was a felon. so many cases, when you can't get that job, some of these people who may have good intentions when they get out, resort to a life of crime again to pay their bills, to make ends meet, and then we see the cycle again. >> well, that certainly can be the case from time to time. but i think that it also indicates that as a criminal justice system, as a community, as a country, we need to do a better job of welcoming people back in to the community when they have done their time, when they've done everything they can to prepare for re-entry. we need to begin to do a better job of ensuring that they come back and are able to live sober, law-abiding lives. >> how can they do that? >> there are a number of ways to do that. a number of communities are beginning to ban employers from asking if you have a felony conviction. people have developed lots of skills in prison and are prepared to turn their lives around and they are nonetheless turned away. there are opportunities to get support within the community to get help with jobs services, housing services. pell grants would be terrific. removing the ban on public housing would be outstanding for felons. there are lots and lots of things that can be done. people do come out with a strike against them, but it shouldn't prevent them from coming out. all of these prisoners who are being released -- nearly all of them would have been released any way. the fact that they're coming out now -- these numbers are a little bit remarkable -- but not unknowable and certainly we knew that this was coming. so everybody in the system has been working to prepare for it. >> mary, it is an incredible effort to allow people to have a second chance. re-adjust and re-unite with their families in a different way. mary price, thank you so much for your time. greatly appreciate it. coming up, as ben carson rises in the polls, will his comments about the oregon shooting victims hurt him? and this just in -- donald trump has weighed in on ben carson's comments. is trump ready to attack his rival in the polls? we'll have the answer and nbc's seni senior political editor mark murray is next. and this -- >> i felt like somebody just snapped my neck. i felt a pain, a chill going down my spine. >> he and his wife had gone from reality tv stars to felons. former real housewives of new jersey star" joe giudice prepares for a life behind bars and his wife prepares to end h sentence. is their life a cautionary tale for those who want to be rich and famous and think reality tv is the answer? my interview with him coming up. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ geico motorcycle, great rates for great rides. to see if they could find the guy who uses just for men. it's me. no way. i had no clue. just for men gives you a natural gray-free look in just 5 minutes. it looks really good. great looking hair made easy. just for men. welcome back. we're back with the first read on politics this morning. ben carson is not backing down from the controversial comments he made about the oregon school shooting which he said the victims should have "rushed the shooter" to overwhelm him. jumping to his defense, donald trump. new polls show trump and carson first and second in the latest polling. let's talk about it with nbc news senior political editor, mark murray. mark, here was a chance for donald trump to go after another rival which he's already done with carly fiorina, he's done it with marco rubio, jeb bush. but instead he tweeted out this -- ben carson was speaking in general terms as to what he would do if confronted with a gunman and was not criticizing the victims. not fair. your take. >> well, yeah. we're seeing donald trump actually come to ben carson's defense here, tamron. it is important to take a step back. when you're looking at the issue of gun control, this is now a fundamental difference between the republican and democratic parties, almost as fundamental as taxes and abortion in which although republicans on one side and all the democrats on the other. now ben carson has ended up getting some flack from people on where people think he was actually being insensitive to the folks who were in that situation, ben carson, that they're taking his suggestion that of course those people should have rushed the gunman. that's kind of an easy situation to do, easy to overwhelm. some people might say that's a lot easier said than done in the moment. but where you saw donald trump come to the defense is that, here's ben carson talking in general terms, here's what he thinks that should be done. and tamron, given donald trump's past of mixing it up with his rivals, it is interesting to see him coming to the defense on this issue. >> quickly here, the best comment that he made is not about the policy or for example when he said that teachers should be armed. we've heard similar language from the nra. i don't think we've heard that type of language that i would rush in deemed insensitive by many, including some republicans by ben carson. these are two different things, mark. it speaks to the sensitivity that's sometimes needed from a president or a leader. >> well, also presidents and being in the presidency, tamron, is sometimes also about public policy which you actually end up doing and kind of rushing the shooter srnt necessarily any kind of public policy and whether you want to focus on the guns, focus on mental health. and so, yes, sometimes just a strategy of rushing the gunman, i'm not sure what really a president or even a presidential candidate can do there. >> thank you very much, mark. we'll see what happens. interesting the trump strategy when it comes to ben carson. never just what it seems with him. thank you very much. coming up, an explosive new investigation takes us inside the underground world of hunting these lions that are solely bred for people to hunt them. plus, my interview with joe giudice. his response when i ask him if he's prepared to be deported, and would he do the "real housewives of new jersey, kwpts tkwpts the reality show, would he do it again? does he regret it? we both driv, we both like saving money on car insurance, and we both feel integrity, such as, that of healthcare in the america of the us and therefore. yes. thank you. no. no. please, stop! sorta you, isn't you. start with a quote from esurance and get a set of discounts personalized to you, not someone sorta like you. esurance. backed by allstate. click or call. more data means more freedom to do..whatever. that's why at&t is giving you 50% more data. that's 15 gigs of data for the price of 10. because the more data you have, the better. and right now at at&t get $300 credit for every line you switch when you trade in a smartphone and buy any smartphone on at&t next. more and more people with type 2 diabetes are learning about long-acting levemir®. as my diabetes changed, it got harder to control my blood sugar. today, i'm asking about levemir®. vo: levemir® is an injectable insulin that can give you blood sugar control for up to 24 hours. and levemir® helps lower your a1c. levemir® lasts 42 days without refrigeration. that's 50% longer than lantus®, which lasts 28 days. levemir® comes in flextouch, the latest in insulin pen technology from novo nordisk. levemir® is a long-acting insulin used to control high blood sugar in adults and children with diabetes and is not recommended to treat diabetic ketoacidosis. do not use levemir® if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. the most common side effect is low blood sugar, which may cause symptoms such as sweating, shakiness, confusion, and headache. severe low blood sugar can be serious and life-threatening. ask your doctor about alcohol use, operating machinery, or driving. other possible side effects include injection site reactions. tell your doctor about all medicines you take and all of your medical conditions. check your blood sugar. your insulin dose should not be changed without asking your doctor. get medical help right away if you have trouble breathing, sweating, extreme drowsiness, swelling of your face, tongue, or throat, dizziness, or confusion. today's the day to ask about levemir® flextouch. covered by most health insurance and medicare plans. the killing of zimbabwe's beloved scecile, the lion, brought shockwaves this summer and attention to the practice of big game hunting. other cool hunting practices are also coming to light. among them is the captive lion hunting industry which is thriving in countries like south africa where there are no regulations. it is the subject of the new documentary "blood lions" that airs tonight on msnbc. the film follows a south african safari operator and an american hunter as they pull back the curtain on this surprisingly large industry. >> see what this one says. >> well, i went online and took a look at a number of different websites. if you've got the money, there's people here that will take. i've got like a limited amount of time that i'm going to have free. they came back with 14 animals. pictures of 14 animals. 13 of them were males, and one was a female. about $16,000 for a young blonde maned male, on up to $48,000 u.s. for a long black-maned males. >> joining me now from the team that put this documentary investigation together, "blood lions" conservationist ian mitch l ler. you've been doing this for 20 years. i take the intro for this documentary that's going to air tonight on msnbc before your team and the msnbc team sent over the literature for me to study i'd never heard of this. we're not talking about what happened with cecil. these are canned lion basically people can make up their own minds but i think many people would use massacre. >> yes. these lions are bred specifically to be killed. so we have farms that are owned by private bushmen, farmers, these are not conservationists, these are not ecologists. they are mass producing lions like you would any domestic species. >> they're basically domesticated lions bred to be killed in a closed-in area. >> correct. yeah. so they will be called human imprinted at this stage. t the domestication process takes a little longer. many of them have been hand-bred. can hunting is the one that's most well known but there are whole variety of other revenue streams as well. it's very lucrative. >> how do these hunters explain their desire to approach it this way and that these again domesticated lions raised in these farms. no sport really involved in it. no hunting involved in it. how do they explain it? >> well, i think that's the fraud of the whole thing, is that the marketing lion is of course come to the dark continent, wild continent, come and put your skills against this huge magnificent beast. and of course -- the film shows very clearly that none of those factors are at play here. it's quite simply your kill is guarante guaranteed. it is in a confined area. there a he no fair chase involved and it is probably half the price of any normal -- a fair chase. what these hunters themselves tell when they get home --. >> you can watch "blood lions" tonight at 10:00 eastern time on msnbc. thank you for your time to put a life's work into bringing this to the audience tonight. people should definitely get on social media and talk about it as well. we'll be right back with my one-on-one with my interview with joe from "real housewives." he's about to spend four years behind bars. does he ever regret going on that reality show? ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ tomcat kills mice fast. what will we do with all of these dead mice? 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(friends ooh and ahh) i can make hospitals run more efficiently... this isn't a competition! tand that's what we're doings to chat xfinity.rself, we are challenging ourselves to improve every aspect of your experience. and this includes our commitment to being on time. every time. that's why if we're ever late for an appointment, we'll credit your account $20. it's our promise to you. we're doing everything we can to give you the best experience possible. because we should fit into your life. not the other way around. so reality tv brings in millions of dollars, but there's a lot we don't see behind the camera. one of the pitfalls, of course, is instant fame. and it is playing out in a tough way in new jersey. joe and teresa giudice, the stars of "the real housewives of new jersey" pled guilty to multiple could understand of fraud last year. teresa is due to be released from per prison sentence of 15 months at the end of the year. her husband will go in soon after that. joe giudice sat down with me this week. you're facing four years, is it? >> 41 months, yeah. yeah, 41 months. >> do you even think about it at this point? >> no. >> why not? >> because if you do that, you're just going to drive yourself craze z and there's no point. >> right now gia is 14, gabriella is 11. when you come back, one will basically be an adult? >> yeah, pretty much. >> so the question is, was it all worth it? >> no, of course it wasn't worth it. but, you know, why it happened, i don't know. >> so you believe that teresa is behind bars and that you are going to jail, not because of something you did wrong or illegal, but because of -- >> i'm not saying i didn't do any wrong or illegal, but there was definitely people behind talking to them and telling them we did this and did that to bring it to their attention and being in the public eye didn't help. >> you didn't think you were doing anything illegal? >> no. no. i was just signing my name. i would never fill out anything. i wasn't -- it wasn't -- i wasn't an accountant or a mortgage person or a banker. >> a number of people that i've told that i was going to do this interview with you, a lot of them women, fans of the show, for good or for bad, and repeatedly i heard from more than a few, this is joe's fault. teresa took a fall for joe. what do you say to those who believe that you are to blame for this? >> well, yeah, i was to blame, sure. i mean, i took full responsibility for everything but they still put her away. >> do you feel guilty about that? >> oh, yeah. absolutely. i was supposed to go and that was part of the plea, what i thought, anyway. i don't know what happened in the courtroom that day but -- >> when you realized that she would serve 15 months in addition to the years that you will serve, what -- i mean -- >> i feel like somebody just snapped my neck. >> i know that this interview, we are able to talk about everything. some things more delicate than others. some things more sensitive. and i know one of those things is the issue of deportation. so i'll ask you this, joe, you're not afraid of going to prison. you've -- and i think in your words, toughing it out with all of this. are you afraid of being deported? you don't want to answer? >> no. >> for more of my interview with joe giudice, head over to msnbc.com or nbc.com. also, there's a special airing "teresa back home from jail" airing this sunday. that does it for this edition of "msnbc live." i'm tamron hall. up next, "andrea mitchell reports." aleve can last all day. you'd need 6 tylenol arthritis to do that. aleve. all day strong. suffering from ringing in their ears, there's no such thing as quiet time. but you can quiet the ringing with lipo-flavonoid, the number-one doctor-recommended brand. relieve the ringing with lipo-flavonoid. if you struggle you're certainly not alone. fortunately, many have found a different kind of medicine that lowers blood sugar. imagine what it would be like to love your numbers. discover once-daily invokana®. it's the #1 prescribed in the newest class of medicines that work with the kidneys to lower a1c. invokana® is used along with diet and exercise to significantly lower blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes. it's a once-daily pill that works around the clock. here's how: the kidneys allow sugar to be absorbed back into the body. invokana® reduces the amount of sugar allowed back in and sends some sugar out through the process of urination. and while it's not for weight loss, it may help you lose weight. invokana® can cause important side effects, including dehydration, which may cause you to feel dizzy, faint, lightheaded, or weak especially when you stand up. other side effects may include kidney problems, genital yeast infections urinary tract infections, changes in urination, high potassium in the blood, or increases in cholesterol. do not take invokana® if you have severe kidney problems or are on dialysis. stop taking and call your doctor right away if you experience symptoms such as rash, swelling, or difficulty breathing or swallowing. tell your doctor about any medical conditions, medications you are taking, and if you have kidney or liver problems. using invokana® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may increase risk of low blood sugar. it's time. lower your blood sugar with invokana®. imagine loving your numbers. there's only one invokana®. ask your doctor about it by name. right now on "andrea mitchell reports," was it a war crime? doctors without borders calling today for an unprecedented international investigation into the hospital bombing by u.s. forces. >> today we say enough. even war has rules. this was not just an attack on our hospital, it was an attack on the geneva conventions. nuclear sting. the fbi investigates nuclear materials in maldova. what have they found? and pressure is mounting up for joe biden to get into the race. >> so it will be up to you in this changing world to translate those

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