Challenging the at t merger with time warner. Many are asking if politics was perhaps at play in this decision. President trump has made it very clear he doesnt like cnn. If the Justice Department does not allow this through, theyre going to have to break up facebook. Lots to talk about. Were going to begin with the breaking news. New video of charlie rose responding for the first time on camera to allegations of sexual misconduct. Here he is walking to his Apartment Building last night in new york city. How you doing, mr. Rose . How are you . You want to say anything to those accusers . The people thats accusing you of all the wrong doings . Its not wrong doings. If you couldnt hear it, he said its not wrong doings. This is complicated. That is not what eight women are saying and it sounds like it could be more. They told the Washington Post rose sexually harassed them between the late 1990s and 2011 while they worked for or looked to work on the charlie rose show. The accusations range from groping to lewd comments to him Walking Around in the nude. The fallout has been fast and furious. This morning the post says more are coming forward with stories. He has been suspended from his hosting role on cbs this morning and his talk show has been taken off the air at pbs and bloomberg. Last night rose responded on tw twitter, quote, i deeply apologize for my inappropriate behavior. I am greatly embarrassed. I have behaved insensitively at times. Though i do not believe all of these allegations are accurate. I always felt i was pursuing shared feelings even though i now realize i was mistaken. This morning roses cohosts told viewers they were glad the women came forward. This is a moment that demands a frank and honest assessment about where we stand and more generally the safety of women. Let me be very clear. There is no excuse for this alleged behavior. Women cannot achieve equality in the workplace or in society until there is a reckoning and a taking of responsibility. I really am still reeling. I got an hour and 42 minutes of sleep last night. Both my son and my daughter called me. Oprah called me and asked are you okay. I am not okay. Despite the friendship, he cannot get a pass because i cant stop thinking of the anguish of these women. What happened to their dignity, their bodies, maybe even their careers. She doesnt look okay. No. And as you said yesterday, a rock conning does have to come about. A cultural change does have to change. Lets get more from Stephanie Gosk on this. At this point to say the flood gates have opened on the Sexual Harassment story has almost become cliche. This is the latest story, charlie rose. Really an icon in the media world. And you have this story in the Washington Post now the way these stories have been rolling out, this story was in the works for awhile. And you have these eight women but it comes buttressed by people that yugsed to work in that environment. People who worked there or are currently working there. Five of these women are anonymous. Three named themselves. Two of them we confirmed and spoke to, confirmed their stories with them. But lets talk about charlies statement where he says, i may have been insensitive at times. What these women are claiming is far more than insensitive behavior and at the end he has the caveat, you know, i dont agree or i deny it and he says it wasnt all wrong doings. Can we talk through exactly what these women have claimed . Because many thought, listen. Its my dream to work for the charlie rose show. Hes an extraordinary talent. It is sort of the ultimate, you know, in programs to work for. And his executive producer, you know, is a woman. You know, its strike thing actually to hear his comments in that video and have him say its not wrong doings when you take that and put it next to his statement where he apologizes, he does also effectively say i disagree with some of the ways that this has been described. That some of this was consensual. I think we all as a society have to decide what wrong doings means. It seems some people have an idea of it than others. Where are we drawing the lines between sexual misconduct, Sexual Harassment, and and sexual assault. Inappropriate behavior. Isnt it also about selfawareness . Because while charlie rose could say i thought it was consensual, for that 23yearold girl who it was her dream to work for the charlie rose show, she might not have run out of his apartment screaming, but when she went back to work and said he came out of the bathroom naked, she was uncomfortable. The problem is in those in that particular power dynamic, you cannot take that context out of the equation. You cannot take the context of a young person whos looking to get a career started and someone who is at the pinnacle of their career who has their career in their hands. One of the most Competitive Industries where theres few jobs. And i think its important for us to realize for men to realize, you can never take that out of the dynamic. You have to be conscious of this as a man wherever you are in your career as to whether youre dealing with someone over whom either you have influence or they perceive you have influence. I hope we live in a society where we could have nuanced opinions and takes on this issue. I would also say this. You work in an environment. Youre men and women, women and women, whatever it might be. Those things are going to happen. There is going to be a situation where there will be relationships that spring up just naturally. I met my husband at work. How we talk about them. How we are public about them. And how an institution allows that to happen and is responsive to it is how you can avoid, i think, some of these situations. But that vega does seem jen yulely remorseful, sort of devastated here. And she sort of is one of the only ones. In others i havent seen other individuals, executive producers, managers, tv executives stand up and say i wish i did more. She did say that here, but is it enough . This issue of complicity is this other part of the story. Right . Whether its hollywood. Weather its our industry. Who are the people who knew it was happening and didnt say more . You have the example of some of these women in this article and ill pull up a quote from one of them who says that she explained to me that vega the executive producer, i explained how he referring to charlie rose inappropriately spoke to me during these times. She would just shrug and just say thats just charlie being charlie. And then the executive producer in response to this in a statement as you say coming up and feeling very contrite. Saying i should have stood up for them. I failed. It is crushing. I deeply regret not helping them. And you see a moment where there is a woman grappling with the history of her career with this man. You also see very poignantly, i thought, this morning with gayle king that moment of, i love this guy. I have huge respect for him as a colleague. And i am deeply, deeply pained by all of this. And the other group of people who need to take responsibility in any of these things are the guys who dont think they did any of these things or were responsible for it. But this whole idea of shrugging and knowing the story or having heard a story years ago, thats part of the reckoning. Men taking responsibility. If these many women are coming forward, you know men had to be aware at some level. Thats 100 . Im not speaking to the knowledge of this specific issue, but its not possible that only women knew. No, but a. Li men have all taken stance i spent 15 years on the trading floor. Men would say theres the bad guy. Im not going to be that bad guy, but they didnt whistle blow and stop it. You figured out who the creep was and you avoided it. The way thats characterized by men in the work place is the different way there would be whispers about dont go alone with. But the guys didnt characterize it the same way. They did in some cases shrug their shoulders saying thats just soandso. This is a moment for any of us to own our responsibility in it. Is the Common Thread the star factor . Remember donald trump on the access Hollywood Tape say if youre a star, they let you do whatever you want. I think its a good question. When you talk about that power play. When you talk about someone actually having the power to destroy or create a career. Even if youre talking about a purely consensual relationship. And imagine a Work Environment where everyone is fully aware that someone down on the totem pole is actually having a relationship with the boss. How do you move how are there promotions that are made without all of them being done under this shadow of, well, why was that person given that job . Why has that person been fired . You cannot have a productive workplace. At least in some workplaces there are hr departments. There are Power Dynamics in hotels, bars, restaurants, factory floors where the power dynamic exists. No star power but theres influence and power. And those stories arent told yet. I to say, i grew up thinking we made enormous strides with women in the workplace. This flood of stories i find deeply saddening. Yeah. Thats a good word. Because it means we are not where we thought we were. And also to hear people talk about this will mean now men in executive positions will no longer travel with him. Will no longer hold meetings with women. Because if they look at a woman cross eyed, they dont want to get in trouble. They dont want to get falsely accused. What does that do to women that are trying to succeed . We have a problem, we need to fix it. Its interesting. For the last ten years, you and i stephanie have been at every womens conference, every diversity initiative. Weve been in the audience. Weve been on the stage. Weve seen companies spend millions of dollars talking about these things. There are massive problems that still exist. And youre not going to have this power dynamic if you have more diversity on top because it will just loosen things up. There cant be an old boys club. Its not just old boys. Thank you for your reporting on this. Youre welcome. Steve Stephanie Gosk reporting for us. He never says thank you to me. Notice that. I thought i dont say stephanie thank you very much. I want to say in front of our viewers, thank you very much. Thanks. Okeydo okeydoke. Another story were learning. Sexual harassment allegations against another democratic lawmaker. Congressman john conyers of michigan, the longest serving representative in the house. Settled a complaint in 2015 from a staffer who alleges she was fired because she rejected his sexual advances. She was reportedly paid 27,000 and conyers did not admit wrong doing. Kasie hunt has been following the story and joins us now from d. C. Kasie, walk us through this. The Associated Press reports that conyers is denying all of it. We need to be clear. We are in a state with so many accusations happening, peoples reputations are on the line. What do we know clearly about this story . Reporter well, steph, we are learning more. You know, this reaction that we now have so the Associated Press sent a reporter to conyers house. They knocked on the door and they received an unequivocal denial. Ill read you part of the ap story here. John conyers has told the Associated Press he hasnt settled any harassment complaints with any staff members. Conyers who answered his door at home Tuesday Morning says he knows nothing of inappropriate touching and learned of the story just hours earlier. Referring to allegations of Sexual Harassment and assault being made against politicians and others, the veteran lawmaker says hes been looking at these things with amazement. So at this point, nbc news is trying to confirm all aspects of this. We are working to try to confirm aspects of the original buzzfeed story and working to try and get in touch with congressman conyers. So as soon as we get Additional Information from him, were going to bring that to you as soon as possible. But i would point out that this absolute denial from mr. Conyers differs significantly from what weve seen in some other cases at least in the case of al franken, for example, in the case of charlie rose there have been oftentimes in the wake of these accusations statements or acknowledgments that there was truth of some kind in what was included in the report. So it is different how mr. Conyers at least at this point is approaching this. The one thing i will say, buzzfeed released a copy of an unsigned nondisclosure agreement. It had some personal information redacted, it seems, to redact case numbers and things. We did speak to a lawyer that says that particular nda was recognizable to her. She has clients who have settled with members of congress and this resembles strongly or is an appropriate example of some of the agreements that she has seen. But again, the document that buzzfeed published was unsigned. So at this point, i think there are a lot of questions about this reporting. And, you know, as you guys were just talking about, there is some caution to be noted. The other piece of this i would also point out, mike sernovic who has propagated conspiracy theories is the source of these documents. Buzzfeed acknowledged that in their original report. They did say, buzzfeed, that they had authenticated these documents. The nda you showed on the screen, also some affidavits they said they had. They said they authenticated them with four people. They did not name anybody in the story. There are no named sources. Obviously that has been another differentiator of some of these stories. The Washington Post had three people on the record. Five people on background. Again, just i would urge caution around this. We are trying to figure it out. Weve also been in touch with leaders in the house. Democrat and republican. They both say they know nothing about this potential settlement. Its not clear they would have had reason to have known about it. Well also try to get in touch with the office of compliance to see what kind of notification they give to the leadership in the house. But thats where things stand at this hour. All right. Thank you. We will keep on reporting on it. Well wait for more information on it. Kasie hunt in d. C. Stick around, everybody. Breaking news. President trump and russian president Vladimir Putin just got off the phone. Were going to have the details live from the white house. And President Trump and the first lady will leave the white house this afternoon around 3 00. Im going to be on tv back then so im going to watch the he helicopter taken off. Theyre headed to palm beach for maralago. Out of 305 days in office, he has spent 97 of them at trump properties. 76 of those at his golf properties. You know what youre watching. Velshi ruhle here on msnbc. And why a Pro Football Team chose us to deliver fiberenabled broadband to more than 65,000 fans. And why a leading car brand counts on us to keep their Dealer Network streamlined and nimble. Businesses count on communication, and communication counts on centurylink. Was supposed to be a wake reup call for our government . Sh people all across the country lost their savings, their pensions and their jobs. Im tom steyer and it turned out that the system that had benefited people like me who are well off, was, in fact, stacked against everyone else. Its why i left my Investment Firm and resolved to use my savings for the public good. But here we are nine years later and this president and the Republican Congress are making a bad situation even worse. They wont tell you that their so called tax reform plan is really for the wealthy and big corporations, while hurting the middle class. It blows up the deficit and that means fewer investments in education, health care and job creation. Its up to all of us to stand up to this president. Not just for impeachable offenses, but also to demand a country where everyone has a real chance to succeed. Join us. Your voice matters. Welcome back. Youre watching velshi ruhle. Weve got breaking news from the white house. President trump just got off the phone with russian president Vladimir Putin. The phone call follows putins surprise meeting with Bashar Al Assad at the russian resort of sochi. For assad, it was a rare trip outside syria where this bloody civil war is now in its seventh year. Seventh year. White house correspondent jeff bennett joins us live now. Jeff, what can you tell us about the trump putin phone call . Reporter we understand that call has just wrapped up as you say. We expect to get the details of it soon. And the call comes as moscow tries to jump start diplomatic efforts to resolve the syrian war. The u. S. And russia issued a joint statement on syria saying the two countries agreed to find a, quote, political solution to the conflict saying they agreed that there is no military solution to the syrian civil war. And Vladimir Putin has take an major role in that diplomatic effort after what has been a years long Russian Military campaign that helped assad fight off many of his opponents including some backed by the u. S. This diplomatic approach is expected to leave Bashar Al Assad in power. Trump and putins last known conversation before today occurred earlier this month on the sidelines of an economic summit in vietnam during the president s 12day trip to asia. And their phone call today follows that rare meeting as you said between putin and Bashar Al Assad in schouochi. And let me just talk to you about some senior white house officials including the Communications Director hope hicks are preparing to be interviewed by Robert Mueller in his russia investigation. What do we know about that . Reporter well, we know that the special counsel team has already spoken to miller, priebus, with spicer the former press secretary. Hicks has been seen as one of trumps most trusted confidants. Has been at his side and she now occupies a desk just outside the oval office where she works as you know as Communications Director. So shes been in the room for all the Big Decisions dating back to the campaign. Shes served as a sounding board for the president which could give muellers Team Insights about the president s thinking. And then beyond that, ali, you remember last week donald trump jr. Confirmed he exchanged some private twitter messages during the campaign with wikileaks. He then informed Senior Trump Campaign officials including Jared Kushner kushner forwarded those to hope hicks according to to our reporting. President trump does not use a computer, so muellers team will want to know if she shared kushners email with trump. This is where it gets interesting. Hes interviewing everybody around the president or his team is and seeing if their stories corroborate. Thanks for being with us. Jeff bennett of the white house. And listen up, Internet Users. The fcc is unveiling plans to change the way the internet has always worked. How it could allow companies to determine which websites and content you get to see. Stay with us. You know what youre watching. Velshi ruhle. Liberty mutual saved us almost eight hundred dollars when we switched our auto and home insurance. Liberty did what . Yeah, they saved us a ton, which gave us a little wiggle room in our budget. Wish our insurance did that. Then we could get a real babysitter instead of your brother. Hey, welcome back. This guy. Right . Yes. Ellen. Thats my robe. You could save seven hundred eighty two dollars when liberty stands with you. Liberty mutual insurance. 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To grow your business with us in new york state, visit esd. Ny. Gov. Welcome back to velshi ruhle. Here are the top stories were watching right now. Veteran journalist charlie rose is facing multiple allegations of Sexual Harassment in a new Washington Post report. His cbs this morning coanchors condemn the allegations. Hes been suspended from cbs this morning and his talk show has been taken off air at pbs and bloomberg. Whitefish energy is ending efforts to restore the power grid in puerto rico after it was destroyed by hurricane maria. The government owes the company more than 83 million, they said. And in zimbabwe, Robert Mugabe has resigned from office. Parliament had begun impeachment proceedings against him today. He was taken into custody last week. Mugabe has been in power as Prime Minister or president since 1980. What is Net Neutrality . Today fcc chairman shared a draft order rolling back whats called Net Neutrality. Its a plan that will affect every Internet User in this country. That means you. Lets look at what Net Neutrality actually is. Its the idea all data must be treated equally. Free speech on the internet but stopping providers from speeding up or slowing down traffic on their network. The idea has been around since the early 2000s but it wasnt until 2015 when the fcc used the Communications Act to pass rules making the concept policy. And giving the commission more oversight on telecommunications companies. Now the chairman wants to undo all of that. What happens if he is successful . Service providers could decide which websites survive and which dont. They could slow down traffic to competing services known as throttling. That would make the Telecom Companies the clear winners in this. Able to off their own services and sites that load quickly. Charging others higher price to access speeds. Who are the losers . America. You would be no longer able to choose the content. And if you want to start your own Online Business or blog, good luck. The internet is the only effective way for everyone to have a voice. And without ruling keeping it open, big businesses get to decide which voices are heard. They are put the barriers back up. We talk about this all the time. Suddenly youre seeing barriers lower in the age of the internet and social media because everybody can get in the game. We need somebody to join this game with us. Tony rome. Hes from recode. Heres the question. It seems on the face of it to most people that eliminating Net Neutrality is bad for people. Whats the argument in favor of what the fcc is doing . This is something republicans have wanted to do for a long time now. And to be clear, theyre not antiNet Neutrality. Theyre antiregulation. And they think of the rules put in place by the Obama Administration were too heavy handed. They did as you described. Prevent companies from throttling websites. They cant change some companies for faster delivery of content. But in the eyes of the republicans, this has crimped investment. Its stopped at t and verizon and others investing in their networks. So the plan put out minutes ago actually would roll back the federal governments responsibilities here in policing Net Neutrality. Walk us through. Because that doesnt sound heavy handed. In fact, it sounds like youre trying to make things even. Because otherwise if youre at t or verizon, you could big foot en ingenuity. It was all about the weeds here. Under the Obama Administration in 2015, the way they got to those rules was by treating broad band providers akin to utilities. Like old School Telephone companies that are heavily regulated. So democrats i think wanted to go further. The thing that the fcc chairman is showing today is to shift that to another agency. Could take some action if companies tried to interfere or tried to meddle, but certainly the u. S. Government wont have some of the same tools as it did under obama. Do people like you have really good examples of what the worst Case Scenario could be if the fcc go ahead with this and some other agency doesnt actually enforce it and what we think of goes away. Yeah. We have a lot of hypotheticals. There havent been many recent examples. One of the big fears is the idea on fast lanes that Companies Like comcast or verizon could strike partnerships with those that make content. People who streaming movies and video and charge them for faster delivery of their bits which is something Smaller Companies potentially cant afford. You know, youre not going to have this mom and pop shop, not that there are many of those in silicon valley, compete against google. So to go in the fast lane, some people have to pay that. If you dont have the means to do that, youre now on the internet at a disadvantage to wealthy companies. Yeah. There are arguments on the part of Telecom Companies here. First and foremost is these companies at t and verizon and so forth say they dont want to infringe on Net Neutrality. That they dont want to block your access to services. There are parts of the law that allow the government to go after them if they say one thing and then do another. Its a part of the federal trade commissions mandate against deception practices. In theory, theres no rule in place. And certainly under that administration it would be a little bit different in terms of how they enforce it. They say they dont want to do that. Youll hear lots of arguments about how, you know, some bits do deserve to be treated better than others that should be delivered faster in this world of self driving cars. Perhaps you do need faster access to the pipes. Here were having an argument over regulation. Its important to point out that this is not the end. Its the beginning. We still have a long debate. We have a vote in december and a Lengthy Court case to come. Tony brings up a good point that it is a lot of industries would just rather fight the idea that regulation exists. They say theyll regulate themselves. Its a conversation that tonys had with us about google and facebook and twitter. But, you know, there are a lot of people who say i would like somebody else to regulate you. Because i dont know that companies regulate themselves well. Thanks for having me. Its not that black and white. Its not. Its not good or bad. Were going to see this play out. Theres a potential snow ball effect here that could be bad for consumers. Keep asking questions. Stick around, everybody. Were going to break down the tax plan and why half americans could pay more in taxes. Half. A member of the house ways and Means Committee will join us. Youre watching velshi ruhle live on msnbc. Your body was made for Better Things than rheumatiod arthritis. Before you and your rheumatologist move to another treatment, ask if xeljanz xr is right for you. Xeljanz xr is a oncedaily pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well. It can reduce pain, swelling and further joint damage, even without methotrexate. Xeljanz xr can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal infections, lymphoma and other cancers have happened. Dont start xeljanz xr if you have an infection. Tears in the stomach or intestines, low blood cell counts and higher liver tests and cholesterol levels have happened. Your doctor should perform blood tests before you start and while taking xeljanz xr, and monitor certain liver tests. Tell your doctor if you were in a region where fungal infections are common and if you have had tb, hepatitis b or c, or are prone to infections. Xeljanz xr can reduce the symptoms of ra, even without methotrexate. Ask your rheumatologist about xeljanz xr. Thanks for the ridealong, captain ive never been in one of these before, even though geico has been ohhh. Ooh ohh here we go, here we go. You got cut off there, what were you saying . Oooo. Oh no no. Maybe that geico has been proudly serving the military for over 75 years . Is that what you wanted to say . Mhmmm. I have to say, you seemed a lot chattier on tv. Geico. Proudly serving the military for over 75 years. You ok back there, buddy . Ruhle. This just in. Two u. S. Defense officials tell nbc news more remains of Sergeant La David Johnson have been found. Sergeant johnson was killed along with three other u. S. Soldiers when their convoy was ambushed in niger. It took a total of 48 hours to find his body. Johnsons additional remains were found november 12th at the site where his body was recovered by a joint Investigative Team that went to niger. They were identified by dna testing. Johnsons widow says when hez body came home she was told the casket must remain closed. President trump says his new tax plan is going to be a gift for americans but who gets the gift . According to the nonpartisan tax policy center, all income levels will see an average cut by 2019 under the plan. This is a big selling point for this plan. As always we want to look a little deeper into the numbers. Anyone making under 25,000 a year, the cut would be around 50. Thats a third of 1 of their aftertax income. Why is that important . Because look at this. For people making 50,000 to 87,000 per year, they get an average of about 900. 1. 4 of their aftertax income. These numbers have been calculated in a bunch of different ways. We always come out to something around this number. Youll hear some people say its a little higher. Some say its a little lower. Now, if youre earning i want to remind you of this. 1. 4 of your aftertax income. If you earn more than 750,000 a year, the average cut you would get a 34,000 but as a percentage basis its actually a bigger piece of your aftertax income. And though all groups would average a cut in 2019, about 9 of earnings would see a tax increase. That may not seem like a lot. 9 . But look at what happens when we get to 2027. This is important. Because the personal tax cuts have a sunset clause. Taxes will rise for 50 of taxpayers thanks to those expiring individual tax cuts. Now, this is in comparison to current law. Thats how we compare this. The Corporate Tax cuts are going to stay permanent. We got to break this thing down. Were getting closer and closer. We have a special guest to help us. Congressman jim renacci is a member of the ways and Means Committee and the budget committee. A republican from ohio running for ohio governor. Good to see you, sir. Good to see you both. This is tricky. Youre an accountant. I am. This is a thing where lots of people have run these numbers and they all come out a little bit different. What we are finding is a few general themes. One is that theyve made this so a lot of people are going to give a tax cut. But for a lot of people its going to be small and the tax cut for people is temporary whereas the tax cut for corporations is permanent. I know the simple answer to that is thats congressional math that has to happen. But there are a lot of people weve heard from who say it doesnt seem kind of fair in a world where corporations are doing very well. Why are you giving them permanent tax cuts and not people . Its about growth and sustained growth. You can say were growing right now, but we need sustained growth. We need close to 3 growth just to cover the expenses of the federal government. Thats the key. We need a sustained growth plan. But increased profitability doesnt necessarily mean they are hire people here, they will increase wages. Over the summer bank of America Merrill lynch asked companies if tax policy went through, what would you do. And they said dividends. Share buybacks. M a. Thats not going to pay their employees more money. I was a businessman for 30 years. I had companies. If i got a tax break like this, i would grow. Every quarter i came up saying look at this tax bill i have. I cant afford to hire any more people. So theres a difference. Im smalltown business guy. Youre talking about major corporations. Okay. But if you were on accountant now, when you look at pass throughs, accountants are not going to get that benefit. But if you own a used car dealership, if youre in real estate, you would. So you wouldnt be getting the benefit theyre offering in this bill. What youre looking at is what weve tried to do in the house side was make sure that individuals cant incorporate. Thats why theres a bit of a difference. On the house side and i know you were talking about the senate side. The house side is permanent individual tax rate cuts. The house side also has permanent Corporate Tax rate cuts. Were not going to see those increases like youre talking about. But in the end i still believe we have to make sure that the individual cant just incorporate and get a lower rate. Thats the reason why pass through income has some of the changes in the house baa bill. They seem inconsistent though. There are some changes and some will stay the same. I guess part of the issue you and i had this discussion last time you appeared on our show. That is that weve talked about the stock market which has done very, very well since march of 2009. Its done particularly well since Donald Trumps been president. Heres the stock market since 2009, since the end of the recession. Weve got remarkably low Interest Rates. Weve got lots of availability of capital. Doesnt look like we have as much of a problem to solve on the Corporate Tax side as many say. They have all the capacity to expand right now. We do have businesses leaving because of Corporate Tax rate. Statutory rate is the highest. The effective rate is one of the four highest in the world. So in the end, companies are leaving. Thats why when you go to ireland you see the company there is. Repatriating those dollars, we know even the last administration wanted to do that. Lets say cut the Corporate Tax rate because we can agree its too complicated. But what loopholes that corporations are currently taking advantage of, what loopholes are being closed . If youre going to cut the Corporate Tax rate, that is supposed to be in conjunction with closing the loopholes. If you dont close the loopholes, theyre going to pay less and still using the loopholes and paying less. Of course we have to get them to pay less so they can compete worldwide. In addition to cutting the rate, what are all the loopholes getting closed . The biggest right now is were eliminating them leaving the country thats not that big of a deal. Its been a handful of countries. You mentioned the effective tax rate. Lets look at that. Everybody says its 35 . I appreciate you saying that the effective tax rate is one of the four highest in the developed world. Its 18. 6 . Im sure if you did different math, you could come up with a different number. But its roughly half of what the published statutory rate is. So if you have that effective tax rate and you bring the statutory rate down, that 18. 6 becomes something very low. Well, again, were still as i said, were still the top four highest right. But japans in there, United Kingdom is in there. Thats not a destructive place to be. We need the growth. We need to sustain the growth. Heres what i chuckle about. People say just do nothing. Well, nothing is 1. 5 . Weve had that its about 2. 1 . If you go over the last 40 years. We go back the last eight years. 1. 5 average. Thats nothing. Deficits grow, debts continue to grow. We need to be able to grow the economy. Take a look at this on the screen. In 1967 Corporate Tax revenue was 4 of the gdp. It was a big portion. In 2016 its 1. 6 of the gdp. So Corporate Tax money is a very small portion of our gdp. Why do we need to make that lower . Well, it is lower today because weve gone from scorps to pass throughs. Lets not forget that. When we look at right now and ive got a chart here that shows were down to 5 , its Corporate Income tax. Versus before when we didnt have pass throughs. People have gone from corporations to pass throughs. So its not a real judge. You cant judge that percentage. Because absolutely corporations. Ccorps are gone. But what happens is everything has moved to a pass through taking over the individual side. So theres been a shift. We know that shift. We cant just zero in and say these corporations are paying so much less. No, theyre not. What theyve done is theyre moving their income. Let me ask you this again. Youre going to have to answer this question a million times. Tell me why in an environment where Interest Rates are as low as they are and capital is available as it is, lowering the Corporate Tax rate will result in economic growth. Because to get that economic growth, something has to happen. Theyve got to take the money they save and employ it in some way that caused growth. What we seem to think happens after tax cuts b it happened in 86 and in the United Kingdom, after Corporate Tax cuts lots of things happened but wages dont go up. There seems to be a hope wages go up. Economists will tell you the first effect of high taxes is to the wages, is to the shareholder. So the corporations dont have the ability to pay higher wages. So the question is, we could disagree all day on this. The question is if i had a lower tax rate as a business guy for 30 years, would i raise wages . Absolutely. But the record doesnt support thats true. So you come from ohio, a state where theres a lot of manufacturing. There was a lot more than there is now. When factories relocate to bangladesh or china or vietnam, they dont do it because of the tax rate. Everybody uses ireland as an example. They go to other countries because because labor is so cheap. And labor is going to continue to be cheap elsewhere. I disagree with that. When i talk to those leaving they do it because of simply trade and ability to move but were not having trade changing. Tpp may have been flawed but were seeing china and other participants rock on without us. I think the president wants to change that. But at the same time, again, there is a difference. If you tell me i can save 20 by going to another country, look. I tell everybody when i get out of congress thats what im going to do. Im going to tell people how they can get a 20 without a doubt, but it doesnt mean that laverne and shirley are ever getting their jobs back at the bottle factory. Companies with more money can then take it and invest in robotics. We dont know that that forgotten american is ever going back to work. But we just showed a Company Last Week coming back because of the tax cuts. Weve seen companies coming back. The president announced companies coming back. In wisconsin he announced foxconn. Foxconn said in 2013 it was going to pennsylvania. As i always say when i bring this up, anybody from harris burg, tweet me if you have any evidence of a foxconn factory. By the way faction con who makes these phones, they do it with robots. They can go to the highest wage place in the world because its robots. The tax cut in the state of wisconsin would be record breaking. I want to talk about a different industry though. The financial industry. President trump, steve mnuchin, gary cohn all on the campaign excuse me, not gary. He wasnt on the campaign trail. But said carried interest makes absolutely no sense. I come from financial services. You can talk to hedge fund managers, private equity guys, they know its a dirty secret. Theres no reason for it to be in there. Yet somehow its still in there for private equity and real estate which is the president president trupresident s business. For americans, we dont split that difference. We say, whats going stob put into law, how does it affect me . Youre talking about carried interest on wall street. Id rather talk on main street. I understand but answer my question first. But there is a difference. Why is carried interest remaining for private equity firms and real estate firms . That is something we can look at before this gets patsssed. There is a difference. Why does it have to be lets look at it in the markup . This is the reason why people here sit here saying are you being disingenuous . Its coming from the reason why like us sit here and say, are you being disingenuous, mr. Trump . Why not put this in from the getgo . Wait a minute, its easy for you two to say that. But come sit with 432 other people to explain your case. When you do that, you have 432 people with different ideas. So what is the case in terms of carried interest why the richest people in the financial industry should get this benefit when they say they dont need it. Who is fighting against you . The president promised to do this on the campaign trail. These are issues the bill is not finished. There will be changes. The senate bill is different than the house. Well come together to merge the bills together. There could be changes that get fixed while we continue to look forward. We appreciate comments like that that say, hey, we need to fix this. There are things in the senate bill that i wont support and vote for. So we need to make sure a 150 tax cut, this is an important conversation. Some wall street didnt get touched. But the average, but the average, again, on the house side, the average tax cut is over 1,000 per person. And Middle America needs the 1,000 tax cut. By the way youre an accountant, averages dont work in times like i do want to give you the dow jones. Thats the one thing i told you about. If you go back well put ours on and tell you what the congressman is talking about. Well be using the s p 500 but its the same shade of chart. The dow goes up and down. What you were missing was the drop. What i said was if you invested in november 1, 2017. The market was at 31,023. That was an average of 4 increase. Not very strong for a stock market over the lifetime of nine years. Im going to come over to this chart to show you because we dont have your chart. What the congressman is talking about is if we went back from here, if you went back from here, what you would see, am i right, congressman . The stock market basically went like that. And i think what youre saying is were selectively picking this spot to start, which is the bottom of the market. This looks really good. All this was barack obama. And this is President Trump. Your point is from back here, the game was very low. And i guess my response would be, that was a recession. I agree. The markets have ups and downs and recessions and positives. So you just cant pick a straight line. Im with you. Ive been in stocks were with you on that completely. It is wildly irresponsible for someone to say, like steve mnuchin, if we dont get tax policy through, the market will do go down. The stock market is an irrational force. We cant do this based on how the stock market behaves . The stock market reacts in advance. Thats why we have the 24 growth since President Trump was elected because the market is looking at what President Trump said he was going to do and what hes done and what he continues to do. And these tax cuts and theres no Interest Rates. The market is also looking at no Interest Rates and Profit Margins off the charts. Send us your graphics and well put them on the screen because we appreciate that. We love to look at charts and numbers. Thank you, congressman jim renacci, republican from the house and ways committee. What is the difference between a no and a yes . Do you know how to network like a champ . And how do you know how to have fun in the office . I have great answers to your question to help you run a better business. Check out the your business page on msnbc. Com for exclusive online video series to help you work smart, grow fast and go further. Sponsored by American Express open, helping you get business done. A genuine smile and a warm welcome they make your town. Well, your town. Thats why American Express is proud to be the Founding Partner of Small Business saturday. A day where you get to return that love, because shopping small makes a big difference. So, this saturday get up, get out, and shop small. They always refer to me as master sergeant. They really appreciate the military family, and it really shows. Weve got auto insurance, homeowners insurance. 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