Stephanie, the scene of the worst mass shooting in the history of this state. It unfolded less than 24 hours ago. Federal investigators are now here on the scene in Sutherland Springs searching for evidence and a motive after a gunman identified as 26yearold devin k kelley walked into the First Baptist church just over my shoulder here in Sutherland Springs and opened fire with an Assault Rifle. The sheriff said kellys former inlaws had attended the church, the first evidence of a connection between the gunman and his target. Now, we know the gunman was dressed in all black. He was wearing Tactical Gear and a ballistic vest. When he walked into the church, just after the 11 00 a. M. Local service had begun. 26 people were killed, including eight from one extended family. He walked down the center aisle, shooting members of the congregation as he went. One official said there was likely no way for people to escape. As he left the church, the gunman was confronted by a local resident who shot at him with a rifle and then chased him along with another man. The suspect ran off the road near the county line and was later found dead in his car. I want to start here with msnbcs marianna ortenso. Youve been here four hours. What more can you tell us about this possible connection between the shooter and the church, which is just over your shoulder . Thats right, ali, i want to give you another viewpoint of Sutherland Springs First Baptist church, a place where innocent people came to pray yesterday, like they do every sunday here. But a place that is now an active scene. A very active scene. After 26 people lost their lives yesterday. The latest we know on the investigation can be revealed when you look at the tick tock. So let me move you through exactly what we know. Yesterday the suspected shooter, devin kelly, 26 years old, was seen wearing Tactical Gear, dressed in all black at a gas station across the street from me. He was also holding a weapon. What is believed to be a rapid fire weapon. Walks over to the church across the street here and starts firing outside of a church. He then walks into the building from the right hand side and fires inside as well. Thats why out of the 26 fatalities, you have 23 people who died inside, two who died outside and one who died en route to the hospital. Then the suspected shooter was confronted by a local resident, presumably in the area right behind me here. This local resident pulled a rifle on him and wounded the suspected shooter, forcing him to flee. Then we know that devin kelley died in this vehicle. We dont know if he crashed it or it just swerved, but he died there. Law enforcement are not ruling out the possibility he could have died from selfinflicted wounds. The Wilson County sheriff told our craig melvin on the today show they did not know Law Enforcement was not aware of devin kelley before this tragedy. The shooter, was he known to police here in the area . No, no. No one knew anything about him. He was not from here. And, you know, were not real sure if hes been here before. Motive. We dont know. No ideas. No ideas at this time. But as you said, ali, what was most interesting from that interview is the sheriff did tell craig that the shooters former inlaws, he divorced in 2012 in new mexico, they attended this church regularly. They were not here yesterday but they stopped by after the miskerr and spoke to Law Enforcement. It is the first possible link between the suspect and the target. But, again, it will be hour, before Law Enforcement, atf and fbi on the scene here can really piece together the gunmans life and what really brought him to commit this massacre, the deadliest mass shooting an at a house of worship in american histo history, back to you, ali. Marianne, i cant overstate what a small town this is. At its peak, about 600 people here. Many of them work in the oil patch. So often its much smaller than that. That church had a membership of 200 people. More than 100 typically in attendance on a sunday. So this is a very small, tightknit texas community. Ali if youll allow me well stay with you through the course go ahead, yes. That perspective, its a great point. If you think about a community of 600, 26 people is roughly 7 of the population so that is the shockwaves were seeing in this tightknit community here in texas, ali. And shock wherever you go around here. I want to bring in nbcs justice correspondent Pete Williams to talk more about what we know both about the suspect and the investigation, pete. Well, a couple of things. First of all, yes, federal officials are on the scene but this remains in the hands of texas authorities. The fbi and atf are there to help them gather evidence because naturally a crime of this magnitude simply overwhelms a small police force and small sheriffs office. Secondly, its not clear whether the gunshot wound that the gunman died from was from the civilian or was selfinflicted. The sheriff has said theyll have to wait for an awe topsy. Awe topsy. And the coroner and ballistics work. One big question here, ali, is how did devin kelley obtain this ar15style Assault Rifle. We know that he bought it last year in san antonio. The gun store has acknowledged that. But we dont know why he was able to buy it. This is the kind of weapon that he bought, a ruger artype Assault Rifle. But the question is how did he get it . Because he should not have been able to buy it, as we understand it, based on his military history. He was given a bad conduct discharge for a domestic basically a Domestic Violence conviction. That is a disqualifying factor under federal law. Secondly, he served 12 years in military detention. Thats the military equivalent of a felony. So those two factors should have disqualified him from being legally entitled to buy a gun under federal law. So the question is was that information from the air force records reported to the fbi when it did the National Background check through the National Insta check system known as nix, that information, was it available to the nix inspector, did they fail to see it, was it in the system. Those are all questions theyre going to have to answer. And then the only other thing i would say is talking to the authorities, talking to people who knew him, it does appear that devin kelley was a had some Serious Mental Health issues. Yes. All right, pete, well stay on top of that with you, finding out about the investigation, more about the shooter. Stuffer n stephanie, i got to tell you this is really a small place. Estimates 400 to 600 residents. This is sort of the center of the operation. Right across the road, i can be there in about ten second, is the gas station where the shooter is thought to have gotten out and walked over to the church over there. The degree of shock in this town and surrounding area, this is not something anyone imagined in their neighborhood. But this place is a place in shock, stef. A place in shock. It all happened while they were at sunday mass. I want to talk president trump. He responded to the mass shooting in a press briefing in asia where hes of course on an 11trip. He called it a very sad event. He said americans will do what they always do in the wake of such tragedies. We join hands, we lock arms and through the tears and through the sadness, we stand strong, oh so strong. My administration will provide its full support to the great state of texas and all local authorities investigating this horrible crime. Nbcs Peter Alexander join us live from tokyo. What else did the president have to say . The president and his wife the first lady a short time ago wrapping up a state banquet here. The president sending his condolences to the people of sunderland springs. Like the case after the las vegas mass shooting, the president said it was too early to address policy issues surrounding guns in america. He was asked specifically about that topic, whether gun control is the answer, and heres what he said. This isnt a guns situation. We could go into it. Its a little bit soon to go into it. This is a Mental Health problem at the highest level. Its a very, very sad event. Again, to be clear, the president calling this a Mental Health situation, saying this was not a guns issue. Hes had a lot of other countries have similar problems to the ones america has right now. Of course americas the frequency, the Mass Shootings happen in the United States, so much higher than anywhere else in the world. Its worth noting his position on Mental Health in the u. S. He quietly signed a bill into law rolling back an obama era regulation that made it harder for people with Mental Illnesses to purchase a gun. One of the real questions a lot of people are answering right now is when, if not now, will it be the appropriate time to address these issues. Of course following the Las Vegas Shooting where so many lives were lost. There was a lot of talk about whether bump stocks would be outlawed and yet no Real Movement on that issue, stephanie. Well then, peter, its time to move. Ali velshi, im going to send it back to you. All right, stephanie, the attorney general of texas says hes relieved that texan dance carry concealed weapons. Ken paxton also talked about security in place of worship, saying, quote, we need people in terms of professional security or in terms of arming the parishioners or the congregation so that they can respond when Something Like this happens again. Texas attorney general ken paxton joins me on the phone. Attorney general, good to talk to you. Unfortunately, you and i never talk under good circumstances. Last time we talked was during hurricane harvey. Let me just understand what youre envisioning. Churches like the one over my shoulder in towns like that that texas has many of, small towns with tightknit communities, should they have armed gun eed . Should the parishioners all how do you see this working . Theres no one size fits all. I go to a church, a large metro church in the dallas area. We always have security. During services and really at all times, theres security on the grounds. But thats a larger church. I think if youre in smaller churches, smaller communities, youre going to have to come up with another solution which is potentially arming your congregation in making sure that theyre trained and ready to respond because as you saw from this incident, you know, theres not always time for First Responders to get there, especially in rule communities. Sure. Let me ask you this though. This is a state where the carry of guns is widely accepted. Is there any point where people who believe in the unrestricted carry of firearms have to say look, maybe this guy, given his history and the governor saying he shouldnt have been given a texas carry permit, do we have to look at tightening up laws and restrictions or at least enforcing them better . Well, yeah, if this guy this guy sounds to me like shouldnt have had this weapon anyway, there are already lawings in place. I guess my argument is adding new gun laws wouldnt have changed the situation. This guy was willing to violate potentially gun laws that are already in place. He also violated the law against murdering people. So adding a new gun law for him that may affect law abiding citizens is my biggest concern because i want law abiding citizens to be in a position where they can stop Something Like this, not be in a position where they have no recourse. If the governor did, as he told us on nbc, confirm, as you have, that this shooter was denied a permit, what is the breakdown in which hes able to go and buy a gun . You know, i dont know. There was apparently a gun store in san antonio that sold a weapon and im not sure exactly whether the air force reported his position in the air force where he had to serve time. So i dont know. Obviously were going to find out. There was obviously a breakdown in something in order to allow this guy to get that weapon. Right. So i guess my point is when we are talking about guns and gun controls, that falls into that category, right . If he had done something in the military and it wasnt reported if it wasnt from a civilian court it wouldnt have automatically necessarily indicated to that gun seller that there was a problem here. That does look like an area that we can strengthen. Yeah, im not saying that theres no restrictions on people like that who have committed crimes or who have done other things that are that should be put them in a position where they should have a gun. But what im saying is i dont know that adding a lot of new gun laws who have changed this. This guy was willing to kill people. We already have laws against murder. So i dont want to put people in a position where they cant defend themselves. I wanted to ask you about the governor saying earlier that he does not think this was a random shooting. You know anything about this . I dont know exactly what he means by that, but i dont think it was a random shooting either. I think this was well planned. Particularly if its, you know, just a crazy person. Theyre not going to come in and methodically shoot everybody. They tend to be less disciplined than that. This guy had a plan and he came in with the goal of apparently killing everybody in that room. Attorney general ken paxton, thanks for joining me, and our hearts are with you here in texas today, thank you, sir. I really appreciate it, thanks for having me on. All right, up next, much more on this horrible tragedy, but the biggest mystery remains. Why would someone do this . Two experts join us on what investigators are looking at as the investigation escalates. Weve lost some great friends today. And we had some really great friends injured. I cried so much, i dont even have any tears left. Its hard to hear the people you know are hurt that bad and they died. 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Im ali velshi in Sutherland Springs, texas, where the big story today is 26 people have been killed in a church massacre. Its the Deadliest Church shooting in u. S. History. Officials are trying to figure out why 26yearold devin kelley opened fire on a Baptist Church here. Weve learned kelleys former inlaws had attended the church but were not there yesterday. We know kelly had been a member of the u. S. Air force but was court marshalled in 2012 and given a bad conduct discharge. Nbc has learned that that bad conduct discharge should have disqualified him from buying a gun. But it didnt for some reason. We also know that kelly was in Tactical Gear at the time of the attack and had multiple weapons in his car. So far federal Officials Say there is no obvious link to any organized terror group, stephanie. Lets talk more about the gunmans motive and bring in msnbc terrorism analyst, malcolm nance. And jim cavanaugh, a retired special a gent in charge for the atf. Jim, lets start with you. What are the atf agents on the scene looking for . I mean, the focus of this investigation has to be motive. No, it absolutely is moss ti but theyre all, the atf, texas rangers, sheriff, theyre looking for motive, facts, eviden evidence, forensics. Theyre trying to see if he was a prohibited person, stephanie, as youve been discussing with ali. Was he prohibited by his military conviction . A bad conduct discharge does not prohibit you from having a gun but a conviction for Domestic Violence does and a felony conviction does. So those military records have to be looked at. Did they disqualify him in it sounds like they do. Did the air force osi, you know, and their criminal investigators and their courts ent theyre into the nix system so when he went back to buy the gun, the back ground is flagged . Hes a prohibited person if thats the case. But, you know, unfortunately now we can put our fingers on three cases where our internal background system has failed. Virginia tech, where the shooter was adjudicated as a mental defective, it was not in the system. Charleston, where the killer had a disabled felony or Domestic Violence, im not sure which one it was. He had a disables conviction. It was cataloged in the wrong county and the fbi said it was a mistake. And now this one, if it turns out to be a military one. So we have to fiction our own system of these background checks that would stop these killers at the door from trying to get the gun nep go right to the gun shop, buy the gun, buy all the ammo they want. If the background system that we control, the government, the congress, is not right, then we need to fix it. Its crazy that we let this keep happening. And thats one thing we need to do. Its not the only thing we need to do. We need better back ground checks all around. We need to get those bump stocks taken care of. And the congress refuses to do that. Not only 58 people killed, stephanie and ali, i would point out 540 people wounded, 600 people, and thats only a month ago in one incident. And those people are still recovering, many of whom are still in the hospital. Malcolm, we now have our first connection between the gunman and the church. I want to share what our sheriff told our colleague craig melvin this morning. Sheriff tackette, you told me that the gunman was related to some folks who go to church here, his inlaws, his exs inlaws worship here, correct . Thats what we understand. They were not here yesterday to attend church but they did come yesterday afternoon and speak to investigators. Malcolm, does that sound like a possible motive . I mean, his exinlaws were members of that congregation, but its a very, very Small Community. Almost a whole community is. Yeah, i think there is a this shows the motivation in some respects of the gunman. Jim cavanaugh actually brought this up yesterday, it was one of the first possibilities, is that this person was related to someone inside the church and an exwife, you know, is certainly a candidate for that. Interesting, his background and his conviction during the air force was supposedly assault against his wife and child. For him to get a were in prison for that is a very severe charge and he must have done a very, very terrible crime, to have that done and then get discharged out of the military with dishonorable discharge. But ive seen that in my career where weve had people who were fanatically obsessed with their exes and even at times i feared they would do violence. And this may have festered over time when he was out. And he just decided to take it out on that community, and that church in a kill bill moviestyle fashion of killing everyone. Jim what do you make of the argument that the system is always going to be flawed, even if this man wasnt allowed to buy a gun and did . Even if he got it illegally. What do you make of the argument that people are making, well, there should be more guns, someone at that church, there should be a security guard, there should be someone on hand with a gun to defend them. Weve heard that argument quite a bit over last day or so. Well, some parts of the argument, stephanie, are valid and some go from the sublime to the ridiculous. Certainly because were seeing these shootings everywhere we live, malls, colleges, concerts, churches, gatherings, we have to Pay Attention and have some security out there. The argument that Everybody Needs to have a gun on their hip, i guess we need to arm the new town students, those first graders all need to be packing, you know, it gets a little stupid. Even if you all had a gun at your hip and youre praying at the church if a gunman comes in behind you with a rifle, hes going to kill you all. Its an ambush massacre. You may eventually kill him, but theres going to be a lot of death. Now, citizen that stopped this guy is a hero. Two citizens actually that pursued this guy and got their rifle. Listen, thats all good and we want that, we want citizens to have guns. We want them to do their part. Theres nothing wrong with that. Nobody should condemn that. The guys a hero in my view. But that doesnt mean we cant have reasonable, reasonable checks. Bump stocks, i mean, thats crazy. And the fact that Congress Wont act on it is even crazier. In this case it seems like a failure of our own systems we have under law. And that needs to be fixed. After virginia take, it was a tremendous familiar. Virginia went all out on that to fix that. Unfortunately, around the country, we still see loopholings. We do. We have to fix this. All right, thank you for joining us. Up next, were going to turn the focus from the perpetrator to the victims. 26 innocent lives lost with many more dramatically changed forever. Anabelle was the sweetest thing you imagine. Didnt matter who you were. She act like she knew them and she was there best friend. Check this out, bro. Whats that, broheim . I switched to geico and got more. More savings on Car Insurance . Yeah brofessor, and more. Like renters insurance. More ways to save. Nice, brotato chip. Thats not all, brotein shake. Geico has motorcycle and rv insurance, too. Oh, thats a lot more. Oh yeah, im all about more, teddy brosevelt. Geico. Expect great savings and a whole lot more. Im ginnwith chantix. Smoking it takes a lot of planning to be a smoker. Its like when am i gonna be able to sneak out of here and go have a cigarette . I just knew i had to quit, and chantix was the method that actually worked for me. 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Today trusted answers from trusted sources are rare and precious commodities. And when industries are undergoing massive transformation, opportunities are only opportunities if you can find an answer that separates fact from near fact. Thomson reuters provides you the intelligence, technology, and Human Expertise you need to find those trusted answers. The answer company. Thomson reuters. Im ali velshi live in sutherland spring, texas. The sheriff says the gunman identified as devin kelley had former inlaws who attend the First Baptist church in Sutherland Springs. The sheriff tells nbc news that half of the victims who died were children. Officials say kelly was using an automatic rifle and had other weapons in his car. However, it appears that due to his history, kelley should not have been able to legally buy a gun. Were learning more about the victims of the deadliest mass shooting in the states history. The tightknit community in texas gathered at a vigil to remember the 26 people who lost their lives. I dont have much except for its very devastating and its hard to hear. Ive cried so much. I dont even have any tears left. I mean, the guy only brought us closer by doing this. Were more unified now. It give us reason to bring us even more together. Nbcs Gabe Gutierrez is there in Sutherland Springs. The Church Pastors 14yearold daughter is among the victims. He and his wife werent there but they lost their daughter. Simply heartbreaking story here in texas. The pastor of this church and his wife emily were sherri, excuse me, were out of town, their adopted daughter, 14, their adopted 14yearold daughter had been killed. Just simply heartbreaking story here. As members of this community, it seems this community, just several hundred people, and still 26 people from this community lost their lives, just simply overwhelming for many of them. We spoke with another woman sandy ward who said that her granddaughter was among the dead and then her grandson, 5 years old, rilen, that he had been shot multiple time, shot five times. We went into surgery and managed to survive. The Washington Post citing a phone conversation with a great grandparent that eight members of one extended family, the holcomb family, according to the Washington Post, were also killed. Certainly something this community could never have imagined. The deadliest mass shooting in Texas History. Back to you. Were going to get answers why this would happen and send our prayers to that community. Ali. All right, stephanie, two men are being hailed as heroes this morning. Responsible for likely saving countless lives in sundays deadly shooting. As the 26yearold gunman opened fired on dozens of churchgoers at that church over my shoulder. A concerned neighbor who has still not been identified heard the gunfire. Were told he grabbed his own rifle and confronted the suspect outside the church. Kelley took off in his car. The asasailassailant. And this unnamed neighbor jumped in Johnny Langen dorffers car who happened to be drivinging near delawa nearby. That chase, then he was later found dead in his car. I saw the shooter coming from the cars actually right outside the church that were parked. His vehicle was parked. Door open. Engine running. And him and the neighbor across the street were both coming out about the same time, exchanging fire. And as he came up, he i never got a look at him. I never really saw him. I just i saw the gunfire. The shooter got in his truck. The gentleman with the rifle came to my truck as the shooter took off and he briefly he briefed me quickly on what had just happened and said that we had to get him and so thats what i did. We just take pursuit. We speed over 87, through traffic. And we like i said, we hit about 95, going down 539, trying to catch this guy, until he eventually lost control on his own and went off in the ditch. He just hurt so much people. And he just affected so many peoples lives. Why wouldnt you want to take him down. Langen dorff says it took police about seven minutes to arrive on scene. That unnamed neighbor kept his gun on kelley the entire time. All right, coming up, the Sutherland Springs community is grappling with an unimaginable tragedy but what responsibility do we as a country have to take action to prevent another community from feeling the pain of this texas town . Were either friends of friends or friends of family, i mean, different towns come to this one church. Even if you dont go there, you still know everybody that does. I mean, the guy only brought us closer by doing this. Its ok that everybody ignores me when i drive. Its fine, cause i get a safe driving bonus check every six months im accidentfree. 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Dads dont take sick days. Dads take dayquil severe. The nondrowsy, coughing, aching, fever, sore throat. Stuffy head, no sick days medicine. This isnt a guns situation. I mean, we could go into it, but its a little bit soon to go into it. This is a Mental Health problem at the highest level. Its a very, very sad event. Indeed, it is. Hours after a gunman with a history of conflict opened fire in a texas Church Killing a total of 26 people. President trump dismissed any notion that guns were the problem. Suspected killer devin kelly entered the First Baptist church in Sutherland Springs armed for war. He was dressed in Tactical Gear. A ballistics vest and carried whats described as, quote, an assaulttype rifle. Joined now by msnbc contributor brett stevens. And mike pesca, host of the slates daily podcast the gist. Mike the president saying this isnt a gun issue and already were learning more about the shooter. This guy was courtmartialed in 2012 for Domestic Violence. He got a bad conduct church. Can we say this isnt about guns . No. I mean, thats one of the talking points that are available. But theyre all threadbare. Like, we heard the attorney general there of texas saying well, how could there be a law, i mean, this guy wasnt following the laws so why have a law against it. Isnt that an argument against every law, not just gun laws . Can you say the same about embezzling. Why illegalize that if criminals arent going to follow the law . If there is no law, if he didnt break a law, we argue, like in las vegas as well, he didnt even break a law, what are you going to do. If he does break a law, getting the gun like now, we heard what the official from texas said. What the nra has done, its not just the nra, but its all the gun control groups, is theyve given a talking point which dont stand up to scrutiny. Theyre familiar, you can say it, and they hope the issue goes away. But its not the nra, its lawmakers. The nra is just one group. The lawmakers are the ones who decide which legislation is going to be. Yeah, sure. Part of the problem, you heard paul ryan talk earlier about, you know, the need to deal with Mental Health issues. One of the first things that the congress and the president did in earlier this year is they raised the bar on preventing mentally ill people from acquiring guns on a civil libertarian ground that they would never for one second have accepted if it were a question of trying to raise the bar from preventing, you know, terrorists from acquiring explosives or anything of the kind. You know, the Mental Health issue is disingenuous for two huge reasons, okay. The first obvious reason is that you will never be able you will never be able to diagnose all of the potentially Million People who may have some Mental Health issue or another and prevent them from getting guns. Of course the second reason is once you say actually taking action on this, theyll say, oh, we have a Second Amendment and you have to prove, you have a very high bar for preventing someone from exercising their rightings. Couldnt the texas ag make the argument you never know whos going to go crazy so everyone should have a concealed weapon . Thats not what we want. Well, thats close to the argument that they are making in america today. That law that was passed, it wouldnt have prevented every gun incident which is another thing they say. This wouldnt have prevented this one. Maybe it would have prevented that one. Wouldnt have prevented the third one. Also lets not politicize any of them. The law where they reversed the Mental Illness decree over the obama administration, you know, what the situation in america is now, is someone could be adjudicated, so mentally impaired that theyre not allowed to cash their own Social Security check, but we cant step in and say that person now cant have a gun. So you could be that mentally impaired or have that kind of Mental Illness where you have a custodian who has to take tecar of all your finances. Someone cant cash a check but they can buy a gun . Thats the root of the argument for why we need to Start Talking about repealing the Second Amendment. The number of laws you can pass to prevent people like yesterdays shooter from acquiring weapons is going to be limited. I said this earlier, it should not be easier to get a gun than it is to get a beauticians license. It should not be easier to get a gun than it is to get a drivers license. This is a potentially deadly weapon. You ought to have to affirmatively prove mental competence, right, and capability and responsibility before you have a gun and people ought to be able to ask sensible questions as for instance why do you need ten Assault Rifles. Why wont one of them do. And we cant do that because we have a legal prescription against that. Why do you need any Assault Rifles . An Assault Rifle is different than a duane. A hunting enthusiast and one who needs an Assault Rifle, those are two different things. The gun rights crowd, by the way, i have a lot of friends who are good people, law abiding people, even obama voters who own Assault Rifles or who own what they call ar15s. Because theyre fun to shoot and they make you feel really cool when you strap one across your chest. I was imagining sort of an ice bucket challenge where the gun people who own ar15s would say, look, i know this is my right and i know im never going to hurt anyone with it but im giving it away or im melting it down or im destroying it in the name of trying to prevent this next strategy. Why dont we have a right to own a gun, but not ten guns . You said that we should but hold on, could this be an Inflection Point . To mikes point, you know, theres a lot of people who like to own these guns and strap one on. Could this be a moment where they say, enough is enough . Look, the Inflection Point should have been sandy hook five years ago. The Inflection Point should have been las vegas four or five weeks ago. Weve reached a point where were becoming numb to the steadiness of this horror. And thats a genuine thats a genuine cultural problem, that half the country simply is saying, well, thats the price we pay for freedom, right . They would never say that, by the way, but extending Civil Liberties to terrorists or habeas corpus rights to terrorists on guantanamo because thats a terrorism problem. Then they make this civil libertarian argument that i think sits strangely with the reality that tens of thousands of people are being killed in the United States so they can look cool with an ar15. It doesnt look cool. The onion had the headline, no way to prevent this says the only nation where this regularly happens, the onion. They run that every time this happens. Yes. And theyve run it dozens of times. Every time i see it again, im stunned. The onion. All right, i want to send it back to ali velshi. An eye witness who lives directly across the road from the First Baptist church over there says she and her husband spotted the gunman through their window. In an interview this morning on today, kathleen currento said she heard what she thought sounded like firecrackers and quickly realized someone was shooting outside. It was, you know i was not ever prepared to just hear that, you know, i kept trying to pull my husband back and he kept trying to get me to the other side of the house and, you know, were looking and my husband saw the shooter go up and approach the church and shoot the outside of the church which makes like an l. Then he walked back to his vehicle. He started to, you know, appear to get something out. I went ahead, you know, i looked out the window and i could i just couldnt watch it. And so at that point i made a call to a friend of mine whos a Wilson County sheriff and im telling her whats happening. The shooter walked back into the church and, you know, i was calling for my husband and then im on the other side of the house and i hear the shots get further apart but louder and so i run immediately back to the front of the house where hes at and he informed me that a neighbor was outside, actually in our driveway, exchanging gunfire with the shooter who was across at the church. And you know, i told my husband, you know, if thats him, then you need to get down. And, you know, there is some damage to our vehicles and to our house and its by no means an issue. For it to be that close to home, immediately after that, the shooter obviously speaked by the gunfire from the neighbor and he sped off through a busy intersection. My husband at that point, we felt it was okay to go outside because, you know, people run late. There are people running late to the church. And so, you know, 11 17, 11 20, people are still driving up. So a few other neighbors were out. They heard whats happening. They came outside. We were just trying to keep people away from the church. We didnt want to contaminate the scene. More importantly, i would never want to see a loved one like that. All right. There are several other major stories making news and we are going to update you on those in just a moment. Were here in sutherland spring, texas. This is the scene of the nations Deadliest Church shooting and the biggest mass shooting in Texas History. More ahead on msnbc. On my mind. My 30year marriage. My 3month old business. Plus. What if this happened again . I was given warfarin in the hospital, but wondered, was this the best treatment for me . So i made a point to talk to my doctor. He told me about eliquis. Eliquis treats dvt and pe blood clots and reduces the risk of them happening again. Not only does eliquis treat dvt and pe blood clots. Eliquis also had significantly less major bleeding than the standard treatment. Eliquis had both. And that turned around my thinking. 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Welcome back. Im stephanie rule. Time for the morning primer, everything to get your day started. We begin with an msnbc exclusive reporting that special Counsel Robert Mueller has enough evidence to bring charges in the investigation of president trumps former National Security adviser Michael Flynn and his son, according to multiple sources, familiar with the investigation. Lawyers from both father and son officially declined to comment. Commerce secretary wilbur ross said she did nothing wrong after leaked documents show ross retains an interest in a shipping company that has connections to Vladimir Putins family. Ross said he recuses himself from any matter regarding transoceanic shipping. And hes trying to ensure the highest ethical standards. He said press reports are, quote, noncesense. And Paul Manafort and rick gates are back in court this morning pleading not guilty to charges from bob mueller. And the era of strategic patience is over in north korea, and japans Prime Minister shinzo abe agrees with the president 100 . And republican senator rand paul has five broken ribs. Isnt it amazing this isnt the first story, after this man was attacked by a neighbor at his home in bowling green, kentucky. 59yearold Renee Boucher was charged with fourthdegree assault. Well leave it there, with a quick break, we have more details surrounding the devastating shooting at a small church in texas. As the Lone Star State comes together at this time, a moment of grieving, a moment of coming together. As governor, i ask for every mom and dad at home today, that you put your arm around your kid and give your kid a big hug and let them know how much you love them. A morning latte, some strategically placed needles, unicorns and sore muscles. With the help of two pintsized helpers, i finally took time out of my business zes schedule to get in the Small Business saturday spirit and try new businesses in my own brooklyn neighborhood. For more, watch your business weekend mornings at 7 30 on msnbc. Sponsored by American Express, Founding Partner of Small Business saturday, shop small on november 25th. Small businesses show their love to you. With some friendly advice, a genuine smile and a warm welcome they make your town. Well, your town. Thats why American Express is proud to be the Founding Partner of Small Business saturday. A day where you get to return that love, because shopping small makes a big difference. So, on november 25th get up, get out, and shop small. Essential for vinyl, but maybe not for people with rheumatoid arthritis. Because there are options. Like an unjection™. Xeljanz xr. A once daily pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well. 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Oh never mind, hes leaving. But what if a business could turn all that thinking. Thinking. Endless thinking into doing . To make better decisions. Make a difference. Make the future. Not next week while you think about it a little more. But right now. Is there a company that can help you do all that . I can think of one. Before we go 30 miles away from the texas shooting, the San Antonio Spurs held a moment of silence for the victims. After the game, the head coach Greg Popovich met with reporters. Considering everything thats gone on today, its pretty meaningless. You think about the tragedy that those families are suffering, it is just unconceivable. Talking about basketball tonight is probably pretty inappropriate. Thank you, coach Greg Popovich. Last night, nobody won a game, america lost, humanity lost. That wraps us up for this hour. Im stephanie ruhle. See you again at 11 00. More news now with my colleague ali velshi. I love our partnership but do not love sharing the stage with you when talking about one of the Mass Shootings like we are today. Thanks, see you in one hour on velshi ruhle. Im filling in for Hallie Jackson this morning. The sheriff is filling us on the latest in the shooting right now. The largest Church Shooting in mass history. I just keep thinking that it could have been my kids there. There were bodies on top of bodies, and they were having to move the bodies to see if anybody underneath was breathing or anything. Why would you do that to people like that, that are just praying . They are just worshipping. This hero neighbor, had it not been for him. Had it not been for him, we may have lost more people. I mean, or he may have gotten away. Our hearts are broken. This Community Pulls together. It doesnt matter your race, what you do for a living, male, female, what your religion or ethnicity. If you need something, we just come together. Thats always how its been. Reporter all right. Just after 9 00 a. M. Here in South Central texas on what otherwise would be a gorgeous november morning. But this monday is much different from anything this Small Community has seen before. By now, you know the reason. The Deadliest Church shooting in american history. The biggest mass shooting in Texas History happening just feet from where i am right now. More than two dozen people killed, half of them children, many remain in the hospital. And investigators are still on the scene here about 22 hours after the first shots during morning worship services. Still searching for the motive. That search, though, resulting in more questions than answers. The man behind the massacre is named as Devin Patrick kelley. Hes now dead. The local sheriff here says from what appears to be selfinflicted gunshot wounds. We know more about his background this morning, no criminal record, but a bad conduct discharge from the air force three years ago. Thats important. Ill tell you why in a minute. The victi
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