To convict, it could open the floodgates, but my concern is about whats happening is clearly an impeachable offense, there is no doubt about t but i do think there are process and prudential concerns. I think going this fast in the house makes sense if you really think you can remove him before he leaves office, thats not going to happen, so i think it would have made more sense to be a little bit more deliberate about it and especially you know, its one thing if you just want to impeach him a second time, its another thing if you really want to win over fencesitting republicans in the senate and if you think they exist, then you want to make sure this thing is totally airtight, every single word this that article is completely defensible and there is no debate about it. I think theres some draftsmanship there that they might regret if it gets close to the senate. Rich, its funny, i want to follow up on that, right now were at the top of the hour, its 10 00 out in the east, 7 00 out west right now, the house of representatives is basically this is part one of what is going to be about a halfday debate about impeachment. This is about the rule that sort of governs the vote itself, but it is in some way the process part of the argument. You will probably hear more detail parts of that, but i want to follow up on something you said there. You said you thought the wording of the impeachment articles somewhat was a bit flawed. I looked at it and felt like it was almost wordforword of what liz cheney said last week. I feel like this article was designed essentially not only to win over liz cheney but to win over basically what remains of the institutional wing of the gop. Did you not see it that way, rich . Well, i think what you hear in the senate when theyre going over this with a finetooth comb is, one, the word incitement was it technically incitement . Thats a word that has a legal meaning, do you want to get into that debate when you could easily sidestep it. Two, the question i think willfully is in there which is the highest standard of intent. Is it really true that trump intended for people to attack the capitol . I think its easy to write a damning article without even getting into any of that and, again, i think some of that language completely defensible in an oped, completely defensible in a statement, but when youre going to convict a president and disqualify him from office, again, i think they might regret not going over it with a finetooth comb again. I want to dip in here, were going to take a listen, this is nancy mace, brandnew member of congress from charleston, south carolina, very critical of the president , but has come out against impeachment. Lets hear her argument. To the two most precious people in my life. Mr. Speaker, the president of the United States the u. S. House of representatives has every right to impeach the president of the United States, but what were doing today, rushing this impeachment in an hour or twohourlong debate on the floor of this chamber, bypassing judiciary, poses Great Questions about the constitutionality of this process. I believe we need to hold the president accountable. I hold him accountable for the events that transpired, for the attack on our capitol last wednesday. I also believe that we need to hold accountable every single person, even members of congress, if they contributed to the violence that transpired here, but today im asking my colleagues to remember the words of the legendary the great leader in this country, dr. Martin luther king who once said the time is always right to do what is right. And if were serious about healing the divisions in this country, republicans and democrats need to acknowledge this is not the first day of violence weve seen. Weve seen violence across our country for the last nine months and we need to recognize, number one, that our words have consequences. That there is violence on both sides of the aisle. We have contributed to it. We need to take responsibility for our words and our actions, we need to acknowledge that there is a problem, take responsibility for it and stop being part of the problem and start being part of the solution. God bless every member in the chamber today and god bless the United States of america. I yield back. As you hear there this is going to be an awkward debate, i think, for republicans to have because youre going to have some that are going to be emphatic on these arent impeachable and you will see some that say yes and then you are going to hear a handful of members do what nancy mace did there which basically and it was sort of a similar conversation that we were just having with you, rich. Its impeachable, dont rush this. Claire mccaskill, what do you make of those arguments and do you think its going to have enough sway to somehow keep the republican count into single ditches . I dont know. I believe that people who i trust are saying that theyre going to have certainly more than the five or six that have spoken up so far when they actually vote today in the house, but this is really a different calculation in the senate. You know, im somebody who lived through a race and watched what happened when the Republican Party drew away from an extremist. You know, i won by a huge margin against todd aiken in 12 because the Republican Party decided they didnt want that extremist in their ranks. Who led the Republican Party then, claire . Think about it. That would have been Mitch Mcconnell. That would have been Mitch Mcconnell. And romney. No, but mitt romney made that happen. He was the nominee. Yeah. He was the nominee. So youve got people in the senate that have just steamed for four years over the conduct of this president and especially the older members and those that arent running again, i think if mitch wants to he can convince them that this is the way to get back to normal in the Republican Party where principles matter instead of a cult of personality. I think thats there. The question is and, by the way, the president dropped 12 points among a hypothetical primary race just from december to january among republican primary voters. Thats a big drop. And it would drop even more precipitously if the Republican Party in the senate kind of coalesced at this point. To that very point, Michael Steele, who in the white house is working to ensure republicans dont vote to impeach the president over the last four years you had Mitch Mcconnell keeping the senate in line. The president had access to twitter and thats what he used to throw his weight around and scare those republicans with his threats into saying i better stand with him. Right now he doesnt have either. No, he doesnt, and there is not the coordinated level of effort that we saw in the first impeachment process, even going back into the mueller period of that investigation where the white house out of the political shop, you know, would fan out to the hill and coordinate it and have that direct communication with the leadership in the house and the senate. That is completely broken down. That is not in place right now. It is a little bit like the wild, wild west in that sense that everybody is kind of on their own, which makes the role of a Mitch Mcconnell and Kevin Mccarthy and certainly a liz cheney that much more important to the ultimate outcome. You know, you are not going to have a wide swath of vote coming out of the house in favor of impeachment. We know that. But as i said before, the fact that liz cheney has been able to from a state like wyoming, i mean, we are not talking about new york here, shes not representing new york, shes representing wyoming, her father was dick cheney, so the conservative bona fides are real. Step into the space the way she has tells you the lack of coordination but more importantly the break between this white house and the senate and house leadership on a matter as important as this. And let me tell you that lack of coordination i think is very real. Its a question i asked just last night to a bunch of sources, hey, who is handling any kind of outreach to folks on the hill on the part of the white house and the response from one person came back, and i will tell you very sarcastically, mark meadows has it handled. Hes got it locked down. There arent many people who are left in the west wing and in the white house. I want to ask you, senator mccaskill and rich i want you to answer this as well. One of the interesting things and we heard this from congresswoman mace, too, the idea that the process is bypassing, for example, house judiciary, et cetera. There was also a comment made i believe it was congressman mcgovern who said we are at a crime scene. You have to remember the very floor where these members of congress are standing was one week ago invaded by rioters, invaded by a mob who was on that, you know, breaking the windows, there is glass being cleaned up even as recently as last night from this and i wonder, senator, if you could talk to this is visceral. This isnt like the first impeachment where youre bringing witnesses and people are talking about something that you dont really have knowledge of what happened and youre looking at documents. This is visceral for these members of congress and i wonder how that plays out for both parties here. Senator, to you first. I do think it makes a big difference that this horror played out in realtime on video screens all over america. Everybody in america knows what happened. Now, they may put a different spin on it, based on who they support and who they dont support, but theres no question that something happened in america that is unheard of, that is vile, that is extreme, that is dangerous and theres no question that donald trump rather than going to the sit room as soon as it happened, calling on america to stop, calling on his supporters to stop, he sat and watched tv and kind of liked it for a while, until he finally was prevailed upon to Say Something and even that wasnt very helpful. Everybody saw that. Thats the problem the president has. This is not complicated. Its a gut punch. And it wasnt, rich, just that people saw it. The people who are speaking now, even those House Republicans we are talking about, they felt it. They were there. They experienced it. It is very visceral, and this is why tom cole is a good and conscientious guy so im not directing this at him in particular but the argument for some republicans we cant do this because of unity, because we need to unify as a country after excusing or looking away at every divisive act by this president and after many of them voted to throw out the votes of a free and Fair Election in various states, that doesnt hold water. But theres still this prudential concern. From where i sit and i just think the most important thing is taking the Republican Party away from donald trump over the medium and long term. And does this advance this or not . If you shoot at him in the senate and you dont convict, you dont dis you will qualify him, you get six to eight votes and Rudy Giuliani is walking out of chamber claiming another victory and another dastardly attempt to get the president , have you advanced that political goal or not . Thats a legitimate worry for republicans who want to move beyond trump. I do think, though, rich, that this did not come with the likelihood that you could ban him from holding federal office it might not get the traction its getting. I take your point. It isnt going to be 15 votes in the senate, right, its going to be like five or 25. Lets check in with Leigh Ann Caldwell on capitol hill. If you could reset a bit. We know we are 30 minutes away from the vote on this rule which if it somehow went another way would somehow table the actual vote on impeachment. We dont expect that. Walk us through what we should expect over the next approximately four hours. Reporter sure, chuck. So, yeah, theres about 30 to 50 minutes left of debate on this rule. They will vote on this rule and it is expected to proceed, for them to accept the rule is a more laymans way to say it, i guess. After that then they are going to start the official debate on this article of impeachment. Its only going to be a couple hours of debate so its not going to be very long. You know, what were trying to figure out now is what the senate is going to do should the house pass this article of impeachment which we fully expect it to. I just heard from Senate Democratic leader hoyer who told me that they plan to send these this article of impeachment to the senate immediately. There was some discussion earlier in the week that they were going to perhaps hold it for several weeks so that joe biden can stand up his government, but hoyer indicated that thats not the case. They are going to send them to the senate. He said it was an emergency and something that needs to be addressed now. So were getting no guidance from mcconnells office at this point on what theyre going to do. We do know that mcconnell sent a memo to his colleagues over the weekend saying that the earliest they could bring it up was january 19th, the day before inauguration. Senator schumer takes some issue with that, says that there are loopholes and emergency factors that they can take into consideration to bring it up earlier. But as far as whats happening in the house, theyre going to continue to debate this. We should see a vote within the next hour. That is not the final impeachment vote. Then the actual impeachment debate begins and then there will be a vote midafternoon, chuck. What this early vote could tell us, its what we sometimes refer to as a test vote. We may see just how many republicans are to be gotten depending on this rule vote there. Thank you. We are of course continuing to follow all the action on the house floor as lawmakers begin the process of impeaching president Donald John Trump for a second time. Youre watching msnbcs special coverage. Dont go anywhere. Were going to sneak in a break here so you get a restroom break. We will be right back. Here so you get a restroom break. We will be right back. E a sign r digestive system isnt working at its best. Taking metamucil everyday can help. Metamucil psyllium fiber gels to trap and remove the waste that weighs you down. It also helps lower cholesterol and slow sugar absorption to promote healthy blood sugar levels. So you can feel lighter and more energetic. Metamucil. Support your daily digestive health. Take the metamucil two week challenge and feel lighter and more energetic. Sign up today at metamucil. Com. History says fine jewelry for occasions. We say forget occasions. snap fine jewelry for every day, minus the traditional markups. Welcome back to msnbcs special coverage of the second impeachment of Donald John Trump. We are literally almost one year removed from the last one. Here alongside my colleagues stephanie ruhle, Hallie Jackson, as the house is beginning what is a procedural debate that will lead to the actual vote on impeachment today but this procedural vote which we expect in the next 30 minutes should give us a clue as to how many republicans are ready to join the democrats in impeaching donald trump a second time. Joining me now nbc news justice correspondent pete williams, msnbc contributor, senior fbi official Chuck Rosenberg, former acting solicitor generalist kneel cot yell and ari melber. Pete williams, i will start with you and really just if you could sort of characterize the current state of the investigation and what you took away from what was finally a public briefing by federal authorities, doj and the fbi. It is notable that it was not the highest ranking people at doj and fbi, but how would you characterize the state of the investigation and what was your biggest take away from yesterday . Yeah, first on camera briefing i guess we should say. Weve had some background briefings on the telephone with officials, but, youre right, that was their first on camera. Its an amazingly active investigation, they say theyve opened more than 170 cases so far. My understanding from the fbi is they have actually identified 200 people that were in that room. One of the most Amazing Things is they have received 100,000 digital files, people sending in video or still pictures. Now, thats not 100,000 phone tips with names, thats 100,000 people actually sending in pictures of people that they think they recognize. So theres an enormous amount of work yet to be done, its clearly going to be a many, many more cases, you know, in the hundreds, 500, maybe 600 cases that will eventually be filed here. So thats the first thing. Second thing is the variety of charges that they are looking at all the way from simple trespass which of course is a misdemeanor into some things that may not have seemed immediate obvious, but theft of mail, theft of digital devices, potentially theft of classified information, assault on Police Officers, we believe that at least 14 Police Officers were assaulted during the riots and of course murder if it can be proven that the death of the washington the capitol Police Officers was caused by the rioters, and theyre also looking at a charge of seditious conspiracy, sedition meaning opposing the government by force, and that would be other than murder the most potentially serious case. That one carries a 20year maximum sentence. Two other things that are openended that they say they have not reached a conclusion on. Number one, whether the riot had a leader or leaders that had planned this in advance, and secondly, whether the people that came into the building intended to take members of congress hostage. Now, thats supposition based partly on what was said on social media and partly on the fact that a number of these people were carrying either handcuffs or the plastic zip ties that Law Enforcement often uses to put people you know, hands behind their backs when theyre taken into custody. So those are yes, sir yet to be answered but its an amazingly active investigation with a huge amount of evidence to sort through. We did hear, Chuck Rosenberg and its Hallie Jackson here from the acting attorney general while i think everybody was sleeping, just after midnight i believe it was, a video was posted in which the attorney general basically warned against any sort of further incitement of violence, talked about the response after january 6th. A short video, obviously nobody around to throw questions to him, et cetera. How did you read that, chuck . What did you make of that as somebody who understands how the Justice Department works . Well, you know, hallie, on one hand im glad that we finally heard from the attorney general of the United States, acting or not, whether or not theres a week left in his tenure it doesnt matter, we need to hear from the leadership of the department. Thats a good thing. But to your point im really sorry that he didnt do it during the day and that he didnt take questions. We have lots and lots of questions. Pete just outlined a whole bunch of them. Im not expecting Law Enforcement to tell us exactly where theyre going and what theyre doing and when theyre doing it, but its good to know as citizens of this great country that there are active investigations, that we are looking at how many people may have conspired to overthrow the government or whether murder or assaults were actually planned. And even whether members of Police Departments were involved, whether members of congress as has been suggested may have been involved. We need to know all this stuff. We need to make individualized determinations, we need to take our time and we need to get it right. But the attorney general sets the tone and tells us what we should be aware of and i think hes failed to do that, hallie. Im glad there is a video. There needs to be a lot more from the top. Speaking of gathering information and evidence, because more is being gathered every day, neil, as it relates to the impeachment rich lowry noted it earlier, is there an argument to be made that perhaps the senate should slow their process in terms of when they vote . It seems that with every passing day more damning evidence is coming out. Well, theres no doubt that i think if we have another week of the donald Trump Presidency hes going to give us another article or two of impeachment given the way he behaves, its ironic that you hear republicans now saying they want more investigation or so on, in the last impeachment they were the ones trying to shut everything down. I think at least for impeachable offenses i dont know what there is to investigate with respect to the one charge that the congress is debating today. The president s actions speak for themselves. If there were a criminal proceeding and we were talking about mens rea that standard of criminal intent i think we would want investigation and interviewing into the president s people around them, the president s Text Messages and so on in order to get at that, and i suspect that that investigation will happen in due course on the criminal side, but impeachable offenses dont require crimes whatsoever. And this is, as liz cheney said, an example of an impeachable offense. This is the president betraying his most fundamental oath to the American People which is to support the government of the United States. You know, ari melber, the ultimate goal for many republicans quietly that ive talked to about this, they concur with the ultimate goal, figuring out a way to bar him from ever holding federal office again. Is there any other way in your view to do this other than through this the impeachment process . Great question, chuck. This is the most direct way, thats why were seeing it, and a senate vote to convict can then have a separate vote to bar him from office. Thats why Mitch Mcconnell and the conversations youve been covering throughout this broadcast this morning are so relevant. This is not just a reimpeachment or rerun, its about whether the senate bars donald trump from office for life. The other way that the constitution provides this have never been used on a president , weve covered the 25th amendment, i think viewers know that that was generally understood to be for medical conditions and thats not currently going anywhere according to the people who have to do it in the cabinet. The references to the 14th amendment involve rebellion and treasonoustype conduct that historically was understood to require a conviction, meaning unlike impeachment its not something the senate just does, it would require using the fact that someone had been in rebellion to bar them. There is some legal debate on that. Ive seen law professors and experts on both side. What there isnt is any precedent on that, chuck. If you want something thats bulletproof to the supreme court, its door number one through the senate to convict and then vote to bar. Thats the best argument i have heard from you and others about why youre sort of stuck with almost this process. I think there are people that would love to bypass it, but there may not be a constitutionally sound way to do it. Lets dip back into the debate on the floor over this process. For our children and for our grandchildren, and i will be voting for impeachment so that america will once again be the shining city upon the hill whose beacon light guides freedomloving people everywhere. I urge my colleagues to join me and vote for impeachment. With that i yield. The chairman yields. Jha from oklahoma is recognized. Thank you, mr. Speaker. I reason to reserve. Chairman from massachusetts is recognized. May i ask the gentleman how many more speakers he may have . Whenever the gentleman is prepared to close well close. We were hopeful that one of our speakers could arrive, but difficult circumstances are just having a hard time getting here. I think we have exhausted all of our speakers. Is my friend prepared to close . Yes. Then ill close. Gentleman from oklahoma is recognized. Thank you very much, mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, i yield myself the balance of my time. Mr. Speaker, i want to thank you for presiding over these difficult proceedings today, i want to thank my good friend the distinguished chairman of the rules committee and i want to thank everybody that came to the floor, had something to say at an important moment and i think the debate while spirited reflected the civility and decency of the institution that we are all privileged to be part of and im very proud to have been part of it, very proud of all the members and the manner in which they a participated. I want to again thank the staff and thank those who kept us safe in the process, particularly the capitol police. Mr. Speaker, in closer, i oppose this rule and i oppose the majoritys actions today. After the traumatic events of last week the majority should be taking steps to unite us, instead they are only divides us further. They are rushing to judgment in my opinion and bringing up impeachment after failing to follow any meaningful process whatsoever. No hearings have been held, no witnesses heard, no process or opportunity to respond was provided to the president. No members had an opportunity to review or amend this article before it came to the floor. This is hardly the way the house should undertake such a serious act. Mr. Speaker, theres still a way to unite the country. Let us look forward not backward. Let us come together not apart. Let us celebrate the peaceful transition of power to a new president rather than impeaching an old president. And let us affirm and reaffirm with one united voice that the house does not rush to judgment on the most consequential action we can take. We deserve better than that, mr. Speaker, and the American People deserve better than that. Mr. Speaker, i urge my colleagues as they reflect on this minute and we move into our next stage of debate to remember that we are all privileged to represent a great and a good people who have gone through a horrifying and tragic time and that we owe them the opportunity to reflect and we owe them our best efforts to bring together. I know people on this floor feel very passionately about this subject with different points of view. I honor each one of those points of view and i honor the people that voice them. Lets remember when were through this that were one people and that we have one purpose, that were free through the grace of god and millions of brave americans over centuries of time and we will remain that way and we will move Forward Together once we settle this debate. With that, mr. Speaker, i urge my colleagues to vote no on the previous question. No on the rule. No on the underlying measure, and i yield back the balance of my time. The gentleman yields back the balance of his time. The gentleman from massachusetts is recognized. Thank you, mr. Speaker. Let me thank my friend mr. Cole for his friendship and for the way he conducts himself in this chamber. I know he has Great Respect for this institution. Mr. Speaker, it is impossible for me to fully capture the reverence that i have for the United States capitol. I worked on these grounds starting back when i was a College Intern working for senator George Mcgovern back in 1977. No relation. Great last name. But since that time i have done everything from working as a staffer for the congressman of massachusetts to being elected to the United States house of representatives myself. But that internship will always be a high point of my life. Coming here for the first time, walking these hallowed halls and seeing the glory of american democracy up close. The idea that someone would incite an out of control mob of homegrown fascists and domestic terrorist toss desecrate the peoples house fills me with a deep sadness for our country. The contempt that these people had for our democracy and our freedom fills me with horror. And what donald trump did encouraging them, fills me with rage. Rage not just on behalf of all of those serving here, but all of those who work in these halls, and im talking about the reporters, the cafeteria workers, the custodians, the clerks, the parliamentarians, i go on and on and on, and the staff, the democratic staff, the republican staff, the nonpartisan support staff who were terrorized, some hiding under their desks and barricading in their offices. I was in the speakers chair the day this unfolded and many of the people who are sitting up there now were present at that time. What a horrifying thing for anybody to have to experience. Now, some of my republican friends have been trying to lecture us about unity here today. Unity after they voted to overturn a free and Fair Election in the United States of america, but also preaching unity and not acknowledging that for four years many of them gave oxygen to Donald Trumps conspiracy theories, to the big lies. They turned the other way in the face of racism and bigotry and how he embraced some of the most intolerant voices in this country. They just let it go. You know, we remind everybody here that words have consequences and ignoring words that are wrong also have consequences. You know, what happened would never have happened if everybody stood up in unity and called out the president when he was not telling the American People the truth, when he was pushing a big lie. We will never have unity without truth and also without accountability. This week in congress we saw the best of us and the worst of us. Some of my colleagues have shown that they will defend this president no matter what he does. Theres nothing that he could do that would dissuade them from all out support. But some are standing up and doing the right thing under tremendous pressure and i am proud of that. And i honor them for their courage. This impeachment resolution outlines the truth of what trump did. It is time that this congress now holds him accountable for his words and for their devastating impact. Last week we took an oath to protect this nation. As history calls on us today i pray that we all have the moral clarity to uphold it here today. With that, mr. Speaker, i yield back the balance of my time and i move the previous question on the resolution. The request he is on order and the previous question on the resolution. Those in favor say aye. Aye. Those opposed no. No. In the opinion of the chair the ayes have it. Mr. Speaker, on that i would request the ayes and nays. Pursuant to section 3 s of House Resolution 8 the ayes and nays are ordered. Members will record their votes by electronic device. All right. We are going to now theyre going to vote. Hallie jackson, stephanie ruhle, look, there is a lot of ways that those of us in the business that were told to try to read tea leaves, there is a lot of ways to read tea leaves in a congressional back and forth like this. Stephanie, when you find that you have members of congress that voluntarily give up time to speak, tells us so much about how much they really dont have to say about this impeachment. I was just floored that basically the House Republicans said, yeah, were pretty much done. Lets speed this along. That is more important of a tell than i think people realize. Chuck, it is such an important point. We all know lawmakers never give the opportunity up to have the floor and have the big audience that they have, but it speaks to the fact that so few republicans are willing to say that last weeks protests, those rioters, were republicans. Are you hearing from any former republican president , former republican cabinet members stand up and refer to those people last week as republicans . Theyre not. Very, very few people consider them that. And because of that that grossly damages President Trumps status as a postadministration king maker. They are not saying a word. And, chuck, can i jump in here, too . Its not just House Republicans, and there are listen, you know, hes going to have some of his defenders. Where are the president s surrogates that have been out on the air . Look at the last 24 hours. Who have you seen out there defending the president on the airwaves as we so often have seen during crisis again and again in this administration . You know, the loyal cadre of the president s supporters get out there on various Cable Networks and say their peace. Honestly i think its just been hogan gidley the former Deputy Press Secretary who talked about how masculine the president was yesterday over on fox. There has not been that fullcourt press like youve sometimes seen in the past on the white house side, either. Lets bring in weve got congressman seth moulton democrat from massachusetts who is joining us now. Congressman, i would love for you to weigh in on what we just saw. We were a bit stunned at the republicans basically handing back the mic, that they basically ran out of defenders that i thought said something. You are a member of congress, you know how these rules debates get, was that a surprise to you . It says a lot, chuck, youre absolutely right. I have Great Respect not just for my colleague jim mcgovern from massachusetts but tom cole from oklahoma as well. What you heard from him and his argument was essentially were going to achieve unity by sweeping this under the rug. Its a very weak argument. What jim mcgovern said is we will have accountability and then we can have unity. We need truth and accountability first. And i think the American People and indeed most of the Republican Party knows that that is true. I mean, to quote liz cheney for a second, which, chuck, is not something that i often find myself doing, she said last night that this is the worst action that any president in American History has taken. And it truly is. Lets not forget, the commander in chiefs number one responsibility is to keep us safe, and he had not only failed in that responsibility he actually incited violence against us. Against fellow americans. Against the government that he is supposed to lead. If we dont hold this president accountable for the worst action of any president in American History, through all the bad president s, racist president s and other president s who we have had, if we dont hold him accountable, what message does that send to future generations of americans, to future president s . Congressman, how do you we dont feel about your only personal safety . Many are making the argument this will fan the flames and incite more violence. Your life was at risk one week ago. My life was at much greater risk when i was overseas in iraq. Im always proud to put my life on the line for this country. This is the right thing to do right now. Stephanie, some people think that when you see the cultish adulation that so many republicans have for trump or even the eagerness for violence that some of his extremist supporters have shown that democrats must revel in the opportunity to impeach him for the second time, for the first time in American History to impeach a president twice. I dont revel in this. This is a sad day for me as an american patriot. Im a democrat, but im an american first. This is not what i came to congress to do. Were not impeaching donald trump because we want to do it, were impeaching him because of what he did, and its unfathomable. Now is not a time to be concerned about the politics of the moment, about the first few days of joe bidens term, or, frankly, even about our personal safety. Now is a time to be concerned about the future of our country and ensuring a Bright Future of our country is what im here in washington to do. Congressman, its Hallie Jackson. Youre talking about accountability here, some of the argument that weve heard from republicans has been about this idea of unity, right . So you have accountability and unity. Can those two things exist at the same time or are they mutually exclusive and do you give credence to that point from some people on the other side of the aisle . Hallie, i think they have to exist at the same time. I mean, as a practical matter weve just been talking in our office about how we continue to work with republicans who have implicitly supported this violence. How do i even work with them next week on a joint bill, a piece of legislation, a shared priority for our National Defense . Were not even sure how to move forward with some of these people because of what theyve done, the violence that they have implicitly supported. If we have accountability first, that equation changes. So i think we need accountability. We need truth before we can have unity. After this, congressman, does that mean and im going to single out mo brooks in particular, but, you know, you could get anywhere from four to about eight of these members of congress, perhaps Marjorie Taylor greene, paul gosar. You just talked about the difficulty of working across the aisle with some of these folks. Are they dangerous to the institution . Do they need to be expelled . They are. They are absolutely dangerous to the institution. Were fundamentally a country of laws. I mean, the basic premise of this argument is that nobody in america, even the president of the United States, is above the law. Thats why whether its the end of his term or no matter what, weve got to hold the president accountable for what he did. And the same argument applies to my colleagues in congress. I mean, mo brooks was down there on the ellipse inciting the violence himself. Some of the things that mo brooks said were worse than what donald trump said. Youve got this new congresswoman from colorado who was apparently live tweeting the location of nancy pelosi who we know this mob was trying to assassinate. Are you kidding . Were not going to hold them accountable . They dont deserve to be members of congress. Im embarrassed that they are my colleagues and frankly the American People and all their constituents back home they should be embarrassed, too. Congressman seth moulton, democrat from massachusetts, appreciate you coming on and sharing your perspective with us this morning. Thank you, sir. Please stay safe. Lets check in with Leigh Ann Caldwell she is of course on capitol hill for us. We are and im sure you are, too, its rare that congress does things faster than we expect but theres clearly not that many folks on the republican side of the aisle willing to go on the record to try to make this argument. So tell us how this speeds things up. Reporter so, chuck, thats actually one of the most things that i was anticipating coming into today, i was really interested to see how republicans came to the floor and either defended the president or argued against these articles of impeachment, and as you pointed out, republicans didnt use all of their allotted time. Of course, we heard from representative cole of oklahoma, he had to speak. He is the Top Republican on the rules committee that governs the debate on the house floor. So he was the representative who had to speak about this and he took the position of the majority of the Republican Party against it. Now, what were seeing here is were seeing the first vote in a twovote series. This is the republican alternative. What it does is they call for setting up a Bipartisan Commission to investigate the events around january 6th. Now, this vote is expected to fail. Its a republican messaging vote. Its their way to show that they want to do something about the atrocities of january 6. The next vote that theyre going to have is the vote on the rule on the impeachment article. Now, what the rule does is it just sets the parameters of the debate. The main thing to know is that theres going to be two hours of debate on this article of impeachment and thats why the house always has to vote on these rules before they actually vote on the actual legislation. It just sets the parameters of the debate. Its a process thing, but as you noted earlier, it is also a test vote because many members who do vote for the rule are the ones who also vote for the actual legislation. So we will be watching very closely to see if theres more than five republicans who come out and support of this rule governing the impeachment article which will give us a good indication of where people stand on the actual article. Thank you. Still with us claire mccaskill, rich lowry, Michael Steele and rich katyal. Play the whip counter on the House Republican side. Does the fact that we saw them sort of punt the debate quicker tell you is this going to be, you know are we going to get to two dozen . I think there is an over under of 20 and im taking the over. Where are you . Im probably under that. I dont think its a dam break. What i read from just not wanting to extend the debate is you cant defend the president s conduct here. I think in that set aside you will see fine tooth nitpicking of various aspects of this process and the articles, but when it comes to defending what the president did, how hes really conducted himself the last two months during the entirety of this period, theres nothing to be said for it so no one is saying it. Senator mccaskill, what about you . Youve seen these procedural things go down before. Youve been in more than your share of votes a time or two. How do you read it had . Well, i would put this under the category of hiding under their desks. You know, with all due respect, call me nutty, but the majority of the Republican Party in the house of representatives including the number one and two leader voted a week ago to defy our constitution and deny the electoral count that was full and fair. So they are not going to retreat from that position because they are afraid, but they also are afraid of being associated with this president right now. Thats why theyre avoiding the microphone. But i would go with rich, i think in the house i think the under 20 is the bet i would make. In the senate i think youre talking you know, there were only eight senators who voted along with the big lie a week ago, but there was the majority of republicans in the house of representatives, big difference. Claire, i know you dont have a crystal ball, but you know them well. What is the biden team thinking, saying, while theyre watching this play out . Theyre not watching. Theyre busy. They are trying to figure out how they do the covid vaccinations in a way that protects america more quickly. They are talking about how they get their confirmations through the senate, particularly their National Security team. They are having their nominees reach out to both republican and democratic members of the senate for confirmation. So i think that there is theyre not paying attention to this. They are focused like a laser on how they can lead this country in just a little over a week. Neal katyal how would you advise lets say Mitch Mcconnell agrees with Chuck Schumer and does this emergency sort of bringing the senate back early. What does this trial look like . Was that was that to me . Neal, what will this trial look like . I think it can be done very, very quickly and, you know, this isnt a circumstance you need t witnesses or evidence or documents or the like. I think its really, you replay the speech. You ask yourself, is this an incitement . Not necessarily in the criminal sense, but in the sense of is this the conduct we expect of the president of the United States . Its telling you hear radio silence from republicans on defending this. If the president had over the last week done anything to show any sort of contrition or anything like that, maybe there would be a debate next week to have in the senate. But he keeps saying every word, every sentence is perfect and beautiful effectively. So there isnt really much to talk about. Its just a question of, is this person fit to be president of the United States . Should he be disqualified from future Office Holding as president . Michael steele, somebody we would see spending time in the halls of capitol hill and quarters of the capitol would be Vice President mike pence. We have seen that in the past. He has taken it on himself because of his history to do outreach to lawmakers, to shore up republican support. He is obviously not doing that. The sources i have talked to have said theres not an expectation he will get out there and take the lead on this thing for very obvious reasons. The new york times, nbc news has had extraordinary reporting on the rift now between these two people. Im told their conversation earlier this week, sure, it was described as good officially. Behind the scenes, there seemed to be an understanding that this is a broken relationship. Michael . Yeah, it is. Its somewhat surprising to me that the Vice President and his team did not know that this is how this was going to end. I mean, there were too many bodies in the road leading up to this moment for his team to not appreciate and understand how difficult this would be for him. But here we are. I think the Vice President now recognizes that he is on an island by himself and that he has got to selfpreserve, in some respect, politically. I think thats what a lot of whats going to drive the lack of forward action by this Vice President on behalf of President Trump over the next remaining days of the administration. The Vice President is looking ahead. Donald trump is stuck in the past, feeling wronged for something that happened last week. That is the that gap is going to continue to widen as we move into what the senate does next and the role the Vice President may or may not play there. Rich, we are seeing a number of republicans call for unity here, because they dont want these proceedings to move forward with impeachment. Come a week from now, no matter what happens with this impeachment, joe biden will be the next president. Where is the Republican Party . Do you believe they will be willing to work with president elect joe biden on his first 100 day agenda . A lot of which is focused on covid relief. I think there will be agreement on some things. Where you get most agreement is over spending lots of money. There will be another covid relief bill. It will be bigger than it would have been otherwise if republicans had managed to hold the senate, which they didnt. Then theres a lot of good faith disagreement. Its legitimate for republicans to oppose that. In almost every instance they will. Did last week change anything . After 9 11, there was sort of that sixmonth i dont want to call it honeymoon period, where you saw lawmakers from both sides of the aisle Work Together as we went through such an extraordinary devastation, which was 9 11. Could we see that same impact after the attack on the capitol . I think you will see you have seen some on the house floor. You will see members and senators going out of their way to respect their colleagues, to say how much they admire them. Tom cole is praying for his colleagues. That doesnt mean he will vote with them. Right. I dont think its going to change votes on matters of substance. I dont think it should. Neil, joe manchin is the leading proponent of saying, if your goal is to prevent donald trump from holding office, then file criminal charges. Pect garl department will do that . I think it will investigate and figure out where the facts lead and make a decision on that basis. Judge garland is an incredibly cautious man. Maybe the most cautious person i have met in this entire town. I dont think this is some sort of rush to judgment. Its the opposite of lock him up or lock her up mentality. Thats to both the judges credit and to joe bidens credit for nominating someone like had a like that to be attorney general. Its also prosecutors in georgia, prosecutors in new york. There are open grand jury investigations into other aspects of President Trumps wrongdoings. I suspect if he gets away with this next week in an impeachment proceeding, he is so tarnished that i think that will put more pressure on those other prosecutors and if he tries to pardon himself, those going to make the state and local prosecutors, i think, put more of the ball on them to do the right thing, whatever that may be, wherever the evidence leads. You are bringing up an important point that i think is an interesting counterargument. You deal with impeachment, if you dont deal with impeachment, theres going to be investigating of donald trump for years and months all over the country. Theres an argument to be made that impeachment gives you some finality sooner rather than later. 100 . Thank you for being with us. I have to i have to land the plane for the end of the hour. Appreciate you being with us the last two hours. Hallie will continue with Andrea Mitchell and craig melvin. They take over after this break. Be right back. 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Ask your 2020s doneologist about humira. A new era has begun so keep pushing forward. Because this is twenty twenty won make a different future start different at godaddy. Com california phones offers free specialized phones. Like cordless phones. phone ringing big button, and volumeenhanced phones. Get details on this state program. Visit right now or call during business hours. Now california phones offers free devices and accessories for your mobile phone. Like this device to increase volume on your cell phone. phone ringing get details on this state Program Visit right now or call during business hours. Good morning. Im Hallie Jackson in washington alongside Andrea Mitchell and craig melvin, picking up special coverage of the impeachment of donald trump again. If he is impeached a second time as expected, it will go down in history. You are watching it all unfold live exactly one week after the president incited a deadly insurrection at the u. S. Capitol and one week before joe biden is sworn in as the next president. Right now, we are watching those historic proceedings unfolding on the house floor. Lawmakers are finishing up procedural votes before starting to debate and eventually vote
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