From their parents. And the president weighed in on Paul Manaforts officially being ordered to jail after he was accused of witness tampering. The judge explained said, quote, this isnt middle school. I cant take your phone. Less than two hours after the news broke, President Trump tweeted, wow, what a tough sentence for Paul Manafort, who has represented ronald reagan, bob dole, and many other top political people in campaigns. Didnt know many of the was the head of the mob. What with comey, crooked hillary and many others . Very unfair. Trump didnt aft any time distancing from manafort who he claimed only worked for him for 49 days. Following all this dizzying action is jeff bennett. Today is sort of record breaking. The president was at it on twitter very early. Then he gave a very long impromptu press conference at the white house. Then these reactions to Paul Manafort. What stand out for you . Lets start with manafort, ali. The president said today he feels bad for his former colleagues lying Paul Manafort who are facing legal trouble. You saw the tweet this the one you read where the president said he didnt know many of the was a head of the mob. Maybe not but a back check on that, look it was no secret when manafort join the Trump Campaign he had made a personal fortune working for a string of shady figures overseas. The president , you are right, tried to minimize his connection to manafort today pointing out that manafort only worked for the campaign for 49 days when in fact he served as Campaign Chairman for about five months. He was with the campaign during the Republican National convention when the only change made to the Republican Party platform was to soften support for ukraine. He worked to provide a Russian Oligarch personal briefings about the 2016 election shortly before mr. Trump accepted the republican nomination. Setting that aside, the president also talked about immigration today. In the process he risk ared blowing up an immigration deal that House Republicans reached after weeks of tense negotiations. The president said he would not sign a compromise immigration bill that among other things would enhis administrations policy of separating chirp from immigrants when they illegally cross the border. I need a bill that gives this country tremendous border security. Does that mean the wall . We have to if we dont have the wall there is no bill. The president said he wouldntside sign the moderate one. The white house now apparently saying the president misspoke that he actually associates both bills that are expected to receive votes next week. Look, republicans and even democrats on the hill now say the only percent who speaks for the president on issues leeb this is the president. Of course there is this other data point you mentioned the Trump Administration saying almost 2,000 children have been separated from their families at the border over the last six weeks under this policy, this zero tolerance policy cracking down on illegalcy entries. It is noteworthy jeff bennett that without the president signing onto an immigration bill. Thats what the republicans problem has been. We need a bill that the president going to support. He signals his support and then doesnt support it. Thats right. They are not sure if he is an honest broker or if he is fully read in on what this legislation is. We saw the president s comments threw a wrench into what the House Republicans were trying to do, whip support for a bill that the president is over here hours ago saying he wouldnt sign. Very confusing. Jeff, i dont know how you do your job some days. I have admiration for you at the white House Keeping us all steady. As jeff reported donald trump claimed manafort worked for him for a very short period of time. A reminder for our viewers, manafort worked for the Trump Campaign 144 days. Trump said 49. Manafort officially joined the campaign in march of 2016. He was the Campaign Manager three months after that. He residebared in august of 2016. The Trump Campaign likes to throw people under the bus but this was actually the Campaign Manager. Trumps comments came just hours before a judge revoked many of thes bail and sent him to jail. He was accused of witness tampering. In washington this morning the judge said manaforts repeated attempts to contact a witness constituted a danger to the integrity of the court. The requestq question now, what does this latest move mean for special counsel Robert Muellers russia investigation . Joining me now, kennedy lanian. Ken, it is a remarkable story. Paul manafort has a lot of pressure on him. A federal investigation, the strength and resources of the federal government working against him. That is expensive, thats cost lee. He has his protege rick gates who turned against him. He breached the requirements of his bail on more than one occasion. But he still hasnt turned and hes still not pleading guilty. Yeah. It is an incredible mystery. I have never seen a defendant with this much pressure on him. Legal experts like Chuck Rosenberg say the bank and fraud and Money Laundering cases against him are slack dunk cases easy for prosecutors to prove. The reason he is in jail is because prosecutors allege he tampered with witnesses. This was in a case involving illegal lonnieing not one of the most significant charges he was facing. He is accused of trying to reach out to the witnesses to get them to shade their testimony. They were alarmed and one of them turned communications over to the fbi which led us here to the courtroom today. The judge ruled that he was a threat to the integrity of the court system such that he had to be taken to jail. The federal Sheriff Service wont tell us where they are taking him. Bun toll me they are taking him to the washington, d. C. Jail. Just this week ministers were protesting the conditions there, saying there were roaches and metal beds. This is not a place for a guy known for his 7,000 suits. I think its going to amp up the pressure on him to cooperate with the Mueller Investigation unless he thinks he is going to get a pardon from donald trump. You and i were talking when this came down. While donald trump said wow what a harsh sentence. Its not actually a sentencing. No this. He was granted bail and has violated the terms of his bail. The judge said something you had said to me earlier, with you heard the judge say it. The judge said really manafort left her with no choice in this matter. Thats right. Because he made the decision to reach out to witnesses outside of his lawyers and the federal government got an indictment on those charges, essentially convinced a grand jury to charge him with obstruction of justice. That met the probable cause test that the judge had to reach to find that he did commit this conduct such that she could revoke his bail. She looked and said is there anything i can do short of putting him in jail to deter future like this. She decided no, there wasnt. She said this isnt middle school, i cant take your phone away. You are already on an electronic tracking device and you have put up bail. The only choice was to remanned him to jail. Barbara mcquaid joins us. Barbara, im not a lawyer. We depend on people like you to give us advice on this. But this is puzzling on every level. Paul manafort, its worth reminding our viewers, on several occasions has done things that has earned him the reprimand of the court. Je generally speaking if a guy like me were being investigated by the federal government the chips are stacked against me because they have endless resources and i dont. But he keeps testing the bounds of what he is allowed to do. And today that came down hard on him. Yeah. And i dont think its any surprise. Judges view witness tampering very seriously. And now there has been a probable cause finding by the grand jury that he did engage in witness tampering. The precedent says a judge should revoke bond unless the presumption could be rebutted. She couldnt find any condition that would satisfy her that he would not continue to violate the terms of his release. These thats why shi shi revoked his bond. Shall, not may. Unless the defendant can prove why this suspect the case the jaj shall revoke this. Again, if im investigated by the feds and charged with something i may have legitimate witness to want to Contact People with whom i did business to say is this your recollection of how things went. Is there any proper way one who is charged with any criminal offense can in fact try and establish the facts of potential other witnesses to what is going on . Well, its not improper just to talk to people. Thats okay. You can interview people. You can try to ask them what their recollection is. And to charge someone with witness tampering you have to show they had a corrupt purpose, that you attempted to influence them or persuade them to tell a certain story. The evidence presented in this case included states by the individuals who were approached who said he was attempting to ob sush subon testimony. He said i am telling them it occurred in europe when in fact the lobbying occurred in the United States, which makes it illegal. I think the whole picture together is what established the probable cause that there was a crime of obstruction of justice here. It wasnt simply i reached out to some people i know tok about their recollection. It was i was trying to steer their testimony toward lice so they could cover for me. Now the context of this is that you have got flynn, who we believe is cooperating. You have got cohen. We dont know if he is going to flip or not. And you have manafort. Of all the other people involved in this thing, and boy there are a lot of people involved in this, as much as the white house and President Trump likes to say there have been no convictions and nothing is going on there are actually a lot going on. Of all of them, these three people have access to the thinking of President Trump prior to him becoming president and subsequent to him becoming president. They are crucial to this. If you are donald trump you know one is corating, you know a second one might flip and you have to the Paul Manafort. Give me context. All of those people could potentially provide information that could be helpful to Robert Mueller. Dont forget, at the core of this is really what was the coordination between russia and the Trump Campaign. It seems that manafort as the Campaign Chairman for 144 days was in a position to know what was going on, what was the strategy, what was the approach. And dont forget, he was at that trump tower meeting in june of 2016 between the russians where there was at least the offer to provide dirt on hillary clinton. Robert mueller isnt trying to get anybody, i dont think. I think he is trying to find out what the truth is. And Paul Manafort is someone who knows the truth at least about that meeting and likely about other things. Regardless of whether he can incriminate anyone just his knowledge would be very valuable to Robert Mueller for a full understanding of what happened in this case. Barbara thanks for your clarity. Coming up, we have a report on the ground along the southern border, getting an inside look at a facility where the government is keeping imMigrant Children separate from their parents. Plus i will talk to a doctor who argues this policy is essentially child abuse by the United States government. You are watching msnbc. Agerelated macular degeneration, amd, i wanted to fight back. My doctor and i came up with a plan. It includes preservision. Only Preservision Areds 2 has the exact nutrient formula recommended by the National Eye Institute to help reduce the risk of progression of moderate to advanced amd. Thats why i fight. Because its my vision. Preservision. Try areds 2 multivitamin. Where were changing withs . Contemporary makeovers. Then, use the ultimate power handshake, the upper hander with a double palm grab. Who has the upper hand now . Start winning today. Book now at lq. Com. I mwell, what are youe to take care odoing tomorrow 10am . Staff meeting. Noon . Eating. 3 45 . Uh, compliance training. 6 30 . Sams baseball practice. 8 30 . Tai chi. Yeah, so sounds relaxing. Alright, 9 53 . I usually make their lunches then, and i have a little vegan so wow, you are busy. Wouldnt it be great if you had investments that worked as hard as you do . Yeah. Introducing essential portfolios. The automated investing solution that lets you focus on your life. The u. S. Government is rate issing an average of 46 imMigrant Children every day from their parents. Thats according to the department of Homeland Security. As i reported earlier this hour the total number of minors affected in the last six weeks, 1195. The parents were persecuted for illegal entry into the United States under the new zero tolerance policy. Yesterday Jeff Sessions cited bible scripture for the policy. This morning, sessions repeated his claim, they are just following the law. It seems unbelievable, but its true that there is an open Borders Movement in the country from coast to coast, there are politicians and activists who think having any border at all, it seems, any limit whatsoever, any enforcement activity thats taken is meanspirited, unkind, even bigoted. The department of health and Human Services says its now housing more than 11,000 imMigrant Children, Border Agents are running out of space. Nbcs Gadi Schwartz is at a detention in el cajon in californias san diego county. You wrapped up a tour of the facility. Tell me what you saw. I just walked out of there. The first thing they tell you is the thing they tell the kids, this is not a detention center. But this is where the kids are held. They are not allowed to leave. In fact as we were leaving there was a really loud alarm that sounded. Somebody accident ally tripped it. We asked what it was, they said thats the alarm that yes will sound if a kid pushes open the door and tries to run. They have said they have had runaways in the past. One of the things that was striking, haunting actually was just inside here, let me take you over here. These are the front doors. You can kindf see through that gate. I want to read this to you because this was really striking. They take you inside, they show you this bell. In spanish it says [ speaking Foreign Language ] which means that basically if somebody is reunited with their family or somebody is allowed the leave with a sponsor, they ring that bell. And so they demonstrated. They rung the bell. And all of a sudden the shelter went quiet. And then you heard clapping from these kads. They stopped what they were doing. Playing socker in the back, they were in classrooms. Once they heard that bell they all started clapping. The fit tators here, the people who run the shelter said thats because they are trying to inspire hope. This is a place of temporary shelter. And the average day around here is about 40some days. The average stay in general is about 50some days. I want to show you kind of what it looks like. We are on a san diego street, in a town called he will el cajon. It is a strip mall here, a cafe a notary public, and a parking lot. So many people around here dont know whats going on behind these doors. This is where at least 65 kids, of 5 Migrant Children from Central America are living. You see the facility is not that big. It goes all the way down to maybe that fenceline over there. This is where the kids live. And we understand that they are able to speak to their family twice a week, each phone call is about ten minutes long. We also asked how long does it take for these kids to find out where their families are. We now know that obviously many of these kids are being separated from their families as their parents are referred to criminal prosecution. And we are told that it usually takes about a week for those kids to find their families and to actually talk to their parents. We also saw a phone booth in the middle of the facility the we thought that that might be the place where they call their families. Instead, of that a line that they were able to use at any time, which is basically to call in sexual abuse, and to call in any type of abuse. They called it the [ speaking Foreign Language ] dkt because they could call and report sexual abuse at any time but could only talk to their families twice a week. We know some siblings have been brought here. If they are boys and girls, they are separated. The girls are held offsite. There are two other offsite leaks locates. The boys are held here. And they are able to see each other once a week. Thats just some of whats going on behind this gate. This is one of over 100 shelters and detention shelters, i guess, full, that are like this all around the country. And we understand that there are more beds, bigger capacity coming on line in the next coming days. Ali. All right. Lets talk a little bit about i think you have spoken to Jacob Soboroff, you have seen his reporting from texas about the facility that he saw. Yes. Can you give me a comparison or some sense of how much you heard from jacob is similar to what you have seen. Well, they are both run by the same organization. But this one is a lot smaller. The one that jacob was at was a very, very large walmart a converted walmart. This one, it was at some sort of school. And so they have different classrooms. Its set up a little bit more for what this is being used for, which looks a lot like what you would expect an orphanage to look like. They are given a few hours outside every day. Structured play, unstructured play. They have classrooms inside. They are sleeping three to four in bedrooms. They are all given clothing as they come in. And you know, when we came, there was about 24 of them that were playing soccer in the back. So they are being given instruction, they are being taught english, and they are also being taught reading and writing and spanish. Some of these kids come from some very remote areas in guatemala and el salvador and honduras. They are coming together, forming relationships, forming friendships. Painting pictures in there. There are a unch about of peoples in there with of beautiful sunsets and palm trees. And a lot of pictures of jesus that the kid have drawn that they are decorating their rooms with. For the most part we werent able to speak to any of the kids, werent able to ask them what brought them here. One of the clinics said they are well behaved and dont exhibit signs of posttraumatic stress disorder. They are receiving Mental Health screenings here. If they need more help medically or mentally they are received off site. But thats basically whats going on. The first point of contact with these people is usually customs, Border Patrol, or i. C. E. Then they are handed over to the department of health and Human Services. And then this is a facility that is run by a private contractor or some organization that is contracted out by health and Human Services; is that correct . Correct. This one is southwest lets walk over here. There is a done script sign that you can see. Southwest keys is from what it looks like is the largest provider of beds for unaccompanied minors and minors who have been separated from their families. We are talking about 111,000 more than 11,000 Migrant Children that are held in these types of facilities. And 5,000 or more than 5,000 are held in southwest keys facilities. We have got some media here that has assembled. This is basically all to see. There is nothing that really shows whats going on inside other than this symbol outside. This is what it looks like. Again, the neighbors around here didnt know what this facility was. They just know there are white vans that come in here very often and they can hear kids playing soccer in the back. This is truly not a story i believed i would be reporting on in my time in america. I have been in these facilities, seen this sort of thing. Not in maybe. This is quite something. Gadi schwartz, thank you for your reporting. Msnbc will continue to stay on the story. As we continue to watch the situation unfold we can have the conversation whether this goes against religious teachings or morality or whatever the case is. But at the end of the day this is inhumane. Want to have a conversation now about why. Im joined by dr. Er win redler an expert in Health Care Issues for children, especially those at risk. He spent much of his career advocating for them. He is also the cofounder and the president of the Childrens Health fund and the professor of Health Policy and management and pediatrics at columbia university. He recently published a book, the future of us, what the dreams of children mean for 21st century america. I have had meaningful conversations with the doctor about children at risk. But they have centered around refugee children in camps in turkey, in jordan, syrian refuse jews who are outside of their homes. Right. Didnt believe that you and i would be having this conversation in america. But to these children, a lot of traumas are similar. Well its absolutely incredible. Like you, ali, i never thought we would be having a conversation like this in the United States of america. But the fact of the matter is these are children that have been deliberately placed by policy in a situation that we cannot describe other than not by war. Not by war. This is not by Climate Change or Sea Level Rise and they have to leave. This is by people trying to seek asylum, trying to seek safety for their families from horrible environments in Central America. They come here and we basically kidnap children, separate them from their parents. This is, as ive written about before, this is child abuse by government. Its not legal. Its not moral. And all these other if anybody other than the government did it, this would be a crime. We would prosecute them. All the 800 hotline number for reporting child abuse. Actually we should be doing this, unfortunately with some of the border at who are also not being truthful with parents or or the children how long the separation is going to be, what they are going to be doing for their kids. It is an incredible selfimposed by the government commitment of basically what i look at as a crime. In our worst moments in history, we have lied to parents about what is happening to their kids when we take them away. Correct. Yeah. This is not in the same way that we have generally accepted i think that most people have accepted that rape is not a tool of war that should be employed, despite how effective one may think it is. We have generally, i think most of our viewers accepted that torture is not a tool of war that should be employed. In the same fashion, this should be in that category. Something in a a government doesnt employ no matter what your ends are. No matter and there are so many other levels of concern about this. For example, what happened to the presumption of innocence . Which is a stall wart it is a primal reality are of living in america. You cant assume that everybody coming across legitimately seeking asylum is gaming the system. So we have to take their children away to deter that is the argument thats being used. It is a dear ternt. It probably isnt, but if it were, it still bunt justify. John mccain who was tortured for many years say we dont do it. We dont have evidence that it is an effective deterrent. To hear the attorney general last month make a statement saying these parents seeking asylum are smug length letters, this is the word he used smuggling their children across like they were some illegal substance. Its absolutely incredible. It is a dehumanizing of people and a traumaticizing of children to the extent i have literally never seen before as a matter of government policy in the west in general or any civilized portion of the world. Its mortifying to me. Goddy and jacob talked about the fact in a the facilities are clean, modern, the kids are drawing pictures of all kinds of thing. Gadi is listening in to this conferring but thats what kids do. That shouldnt be a symbol of the fact that oh, they must be fine, they are drawing pictures and eating food. They are not fine. They are being separated traumatically from their parents. This is toxic suppress for children, this kind of separation. And the fact that they have workers around there who are allowing them to draw pictures is not a reason to think its okay. It is not a rationale for committing what i consider to be really criminal behavior with respect to this forced separation of children. This has to stop. By the way for every story of a kid drawing a picture there are stories of children crying themselves to sleeve. As a month ago, there were 100 children under the age of 4 in these detention centers. How do you possibly explain to a 4yearold. Why their parents arent around. Where is mom and dad . Its mortifying. Gadi, tell me more about the situation that these kids are under. We have seen kids at day care, doing certain thing. To some degree kids are resilient and they can manage some degree of this. Tell me what life looks like for a child inside these centers. Well, they try to structure it. You were talking about that presumption of innocence. So there are small kids, and they are mixed in with the big kids, kids that are sometimes 16, 17 years old. One of the most difficult things that we heard was at 17, when she is kids turn 18 inside of a facility like this all of a sudden that whole promise of you might be able to get out of here because your family comes and you might be able to be reunited with their family on the outside that all stops because they are remanned back into i. C. E. Custody and then they start their deportation hearing. That bell will never ring for those kids. It is basically a race against the clock. If they turn 18 all of a sudden these kids are out of here and back into the system where its not necessarily under lock and key in a dorm terry style as you see here. But it is straight federal prison. Gadi, to be clear they are not selected to be together if they are siblings, boys and first, they are separated . Yeah, if they are boys and girls and they are siblings they are separated. This is a boys only facility. There are gifrl facilities in the area. But if it is a brother and a sister they are separated and allowed to meet once a week. Also, if they have other family members. If its cousins or those kinds of things. Depend, they are separated and allowed to meet once a week. Two phone calls a week. They can be back home to their countries or to people here in the United States. But both of those phone calls are limited to about ten minutes. We know that once they are 18 they get treated as adults and deport hearings start against them. What are the ages of the kids that are in that facility behind you . They are about they take them as young as 6 at this facility. It looked like what we saw in one of the classrooms that we visited. We saw kids, mostly teens, but there were two that seemed to be younger than 10 years old. They were mixed in there with the teenagers. Same on the soccer field you have got mostly teenagers with a few kids that look really really young. Irwin, courts work very hard to not separate children from their parents. Right. If there is harm being done in a child in a home they will do that. But its almost like courts ben over backwards to ensure that a child remains with a parent. Absolutely. It is a last resort to take a child out of their home. Even if they dont have ideal or wonderful parents. Correct. We know weve got all the scholarship that recognizes the long term damage you can do to children. If you are in a refugee camp you can try to mitigate the daniel thats done to them but we are causing them. If you have to detain people because they have crossed the border in your opinion illegally we could detain them together. We certainly could. The whole thing is heart breaking, number one. Number two, i cant imagine anything thats a government policy that is less consistent with american values. Its just its mind boggling to think that somebody thinksings this okay. Especially on the heavily. White house, of the attorney general of the United States. This is so so unacceptable its really hard to define this. The separating of the sibling which gadi was just talking about. Its crazy to do this. Actually what we could do is find ways of keeping the Families Together while their cases are being jude kate. It cant be that hard hard to do that. You are housing the seem number of people. You know, they are traumatized anyway by coming here in general. They are leaving a traumatic situation in honduras, el salvador and so on and they come here and we exacerbate that on purpose. This is what we should be wrapping our minds around. We shouldnt be doing it. Again, gadi and jack oob have adequately andate accurately painted a picture of facilities that are well built. They are dry. They are clean. They get food. They get all sorts of thing. But you were talking about toxic stress. The cleanliness of the place, the food, that ds not deal with the fact that toxic stress is a strong frequent and prolonged adversity such as physical or emotional abuse, exposure to violence and the accumulated burdens of Economic Hardship without adequate adult support. A nice facility is not going to counter this. No, there is nothing thats going to counter you being forcibly taken from your parent when you are a child. It is a terrifying situation. And actually, it is one of the worst types of toxic stress that you can imagine. And we are deliberately doing it. There are many children unfortunately where the families have no choice. I have in refugee camps in greece last summer. We saw horrible heart breaking situations by conditions that were not of the volition of the parents. This is something that we do have to deal with on a macro level globally. What we have here is something entirely different. We have the United States government saying we are going to cause this child this family to have this incredible traumatic advertising separation for no good reason. And deterrence is not an excuse to do inhumane acts against children and families. Its just not what we should be doing. And things like toxic stress are not easily solved. No. They are not. You have to work on how you mitigate that. But you mitigate them because these kids in these refugee camps, they are there for some other reason. We are imposing toxic stress on the child. The best mitigator of toxic stress is by having a buffering adult around, usually a parent. We have gone through health, but mom and dad with arms around them emotionally and physically that says its going to be all right, we are going to get through this. Here we have our own government, it tells like its me doing it. Its saying, no we are going to remove this child not only into a toxic environment, whether its clean or not it is you and, its moo. It is our tax dollars at work separating these people from their children. Gadi, again, we always marvel at the resilience of children. The fact is, is it clear to you these kids, they have been separated from their parents. They are somehow finding ways to make due. They can have a smile on their face. They can draw pictures. Doesnt overcome the underlying toxic stress under which they are going through but there is a certain resilience to being a child. Absolutely. But there is also that uncertainty. I mean, if you think about you know, the get thing is, these kids in there together. Many of them have the same types of stories. They are those brutal heart breaking stories we have been hearing over and over again, kids that are fleeing violence that is unimaginable. You know, they are in there together. But they also have this constantly looming uncertainty about whats going to happen to their case, whats going to happen to their family, when they are going to see their family. We have heard from some people that are in detention centers. One girl who was 18 said she had no idea when her court case was going to be. She had no idea when she was going to be released, no idea when she was going to see her family again. Lot of these kids have those same questions, when are they going to see their family again . Are they going to be deported back to the country where they said they fled violence . Will they come back through mexico or face the violence when they are deported . Its not just the trauma they have already been through. Its also the trauma of what may be to come. The ironic thing is they are here, in a san diego neighborhood. Behind this fence. They are so close to this American Dream that they came trying to pursue, they go on field trips to the san diego zoo, and then they come back here, where they sleep locked behind this fence. We know a childs mind doesnt develop perhaps until they are into their 20s but every childs greatest fear is uncertainty. Every child where some small thing goes wrong feels the world is come to an end. And these are traumatic instances. When it comes to the fear of uncertainty, the inability to process that as an immature brain and ptsd, how does a child manage this . What sort of resilience do they have to be able to not make this a life destroying event while our government attempts to droi their lives. A certain amount of stress is normal and its part of making a child able to cope and be resilience. There is normal stress and toxic stress. Uncertainty is also a fact of life for many families, economic uncertainty, illness uncertainty, et cetera. What happens in a family environment where the mom and or the dad is saying its going to be okay, i dont know when its going to end either but im here to protect you, im here for you. Right. That cannot be done by a stranger in a detention center. And this thats such a basic instinct, the basic need for your parent to say okay its okay im here to protect you. Yeah. Yeah. This is what we have, very Vulnerable Children made increasingly more vulnerable by conditions that we have established for them. This is where we are finding ourselves. Look, i spoke to a very senior Homeland Security official in the legal department. She told me listen we have thousands of people coming across the border, some of them are exploiting children and some of them have other intentions. That may be true. Said to her, it may be true. It doesnt justify the action. It means we are sweeping all of the innocent families legitimately seeking asylum into this big net and basically saying you are all guilty until proven other the exact opposite of our legal system. These children are guilty of nothing of it doesnt matter what you think of their parents, doesnt matter what you think of how many people are coming across this border. Its why we dont torture or rape as a political tool. We do not do this thing. Another shelter we have been talking about is casa padre the converted walmart in texas. It houses 1,500 boys, aged 10 to 17 years old. This is where Jacob Soboroff has been. He was one of the first journalists invited to take look inside the facility. He joins us now. Gadi, i think you have been listening to some of this conversation jacob, you have been listening to some of the conversation with gadi, who is with us, and irwin. I want to get your take on this. Again, the cleanliness, the orderliness, the way in which they have built out the dorms, the fact this they have play time, food and they have got counsellors, somehow belies an underlying problem with the fact that we are warehousing children who are separate from their parents. Yeah, and frankly its not really the issue. As we talked about yesterday, you could separate these kids and send them to a fivestar hotels. But trauma is what they are talking about here. They could be in the nicest facility in the world yet they are being separated forcibly from their parents something that hasnt been done systematically before by the u. S. Government the reality is, yes, there have been hhs facilities that housed undocumented migrants that came and were seeking asylum during previous administrations but they came because of a crisis on the ground in those countries. The crisis we are talking about today has been created by the president of the United States by forcibly removing systematically children from their parents thats led to the overcrowding like i saw in casa padre. And now we have been in two of 100 shelters that hhs maintains. There are two others, one in florida, and one at the port of entry near el paso that opened up in the last couple of days. There are a lot of unanswered questions. Where are all of the toddlers being held that are separated from their parents . There have never been toddlers that walked across the border on their own they are not showing up here as unaccompanied minors. This is something thats being created by this policy. Now, two facilities down out of 100 since the zero tolerance policy see was announced and we have been able to look inside. There are 98 more to go that we havent put our eyes on yet. Is there any effort i dont understand how the tours are going that you have gotten into. I assume nobody is making any effort to justify this process or to give you rationale why this is good, they are telling you what services are being provided to these kids . Right. Well, look, this is something that i think jacob saw at that converted walmart, something we saw here. The type of people that we that we meet, the majority of them working here have that social worker feel. You get the sense that they are here in the position to do what they can. They have got a mindset they are going to do everything they can to accommodate them and try to make them comfortable of thats the majority of them. We did hear people in this facility referring to some of these kids as clients when they are brought in as clients to stay here. But you saw were there with the children. But there is still that uncertainty that we were talking about where you know you have got kids that dont know whats going to happen. They have come from some extreme violence. And the only glimpses that we saw into these kids lives because we didnt really talk to them was in the pictures, the pictures they have been drawing in their classrooms, the kind of pictures of sunsets and palm trees. Jacob, this is a very interesting and meaningful point. Social workers typically refer to anyone they are treating as a client as a sign of respect for that person, so as not to victimize them. Where we have been in refugee calves displaced persons camps, in red cross shelters after a torn or a hurricane, big love and kudos to the social workers who do that it never creates normalcy for the client, never creates normalcy for that child. To irwin redlers point that we are doing has to things, jacob that create a situation for these clients, for these kids, for these humans, is the problem, not the fact that they are Getting Services atwal mart or at this facility in san diego county. Lets be real. They are not clients. They are detainees of the federal government. And the situation that i saw allowed to go outside two hours a day. For the other 22 they are inside a former walmart. I am not criticizing the Services Provided by the exemplary people that are licensed and professional that wok for the deputy of health and Human Services or the nonprofits be that grantees of that organization. They are being placed under extraordinary amounts of stress because they are now getting kids that are coming to them that didnt know this was part of the program. When you are going into the United States and crossing between ports of entry and presenting yourself to a Border Patrol agent and saying you are going to declare asylum as an uncompanied minor, you know you are going to be sitting in one of these centers. Thats what the Service Providers are used to deal with. They are not used to dealing with kids that dont know what they are getting themselves into. They are told by a coyote or someone else telling them to walk across the border to go into i. C. E. Detention centers. They are no longer going into those centers, they are being separated and being sent to social workers that are not used to deal with kid on a systematic basis that have been ripped away from their family. Thats where the trauma is come from in this situation. We shouldnt criticize unless that criticism is warranted. The people that are providing much needed services to these kids. The process it is the government policy that has caused this to happen. This is not a naturally occurring phenomenon. You can hold two thoughts in your mind, you can hate the coyotes who bring these people over, the smugglers, hate the parents who endanger the parents by doing this. But there must not be a thought in your mind to think it is acceptable to separate the children from their parents and put them in these facilities. Thank you for bearing witness to the people of our country the atrocity. Come up, another week, another round of tariffs. This time china is the target. President trump announcing today he is moving forward with tariffs on 50 billion worth of chinese products sparking beijing to immediately promise retaliations. Up next, what a trade war between the worlds two largest economies is going the look like to you. 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We are just going to do 50 billion on 50 billion of High Technology equipment and other things coming into the country because so much of our secrets you know, we have the great brain power in silicon valley. And china and others steal those secrets. And we are going to protect those secrets. Those are crown jewels for this country. I want to start by saying there are reasons why you would want to protect secrets and industries. And there are actual reasons why some actions should be taken against china. But this has become much bigger than that. The president blamed skrim terry trade practices that put american businesses which export products at a disadvantage. These tariffs are a piece of what policy maker call protectionism. We hear tariffs, but thats one part of protectionism. There are three key ways governments try to protect businesses or industries from global competitions. Tariff is one of them, subsid s subsidies, and quotas is one of them. I want to use this baseball hat to explain how it works. It is a quintessentially american hat but it could be made anywhere. A company in the midwest pace workers 15 an hour to make it. A Chinese Company is paying its worker 2. Americans like inexpensive products so they are going to buy the chinesemade hat that competitive advantage could jeopardize the american jobs at that factory in the midwest, which is why the u. S. Government may decide to slap a tariff on chinese imports. That effectively taxes the americans who buy the cheaper made in china hath. It raises the price of the made in china hat. If you have to pay more money for the made in china hat you may decide to buy the made in america hat instead. Subsidies are on the front end. The government helps lower cost the cost of the baseball hat, helps americans compete against the made in china hat manufacturer. We have talked about tariffs and subsidies. Lets talk about quotas. The government can restrict the number of the made this china hats coming into america and gives the American Made company room to charge americans less for this baseball hat. This is a look at how tariffs subsidies and quotas are used by countries all over the world to fight free trade. Americans like jobs that made in america hats create but like the low prices that made in china hats produce. Joining me to take a look at how you are supposed to manage all of this is the chief economist for Brandt Thornton and adviser to the federal reserve. Diane, i apologize for the remarkable oversimplification of that but the fact is there are reasons why a government might want to protect a particular industry. Our free trade deals or trade deals are our mecke michls by which we try and mitigate that. Exactly right. They also are our free trade deals and trade deals we do are part of a larger ecosystem of geopolitics as well. Its a way of keeping the social fabric of the world to the as opposed to splitting us all apart and having a real war instead of just a trade war. Some of the reasons we trade is that some countries are really good at making certain thing or growing certain thing. Other countries in cold climate cant grow those things. This helps us get the things that our consumers need while at the same time producing and selling to the world the goods that we do need. How do we deal with the unfairnesses in the system. President trump outlined a few of them. Not wrong about them. There are unfairnesses in the system. How do we mitigate those. There are unfairnesses in the system. China we know they have stolen our secrets, intellectual property. In fact, the best way to deal with it is what we had in our hands, the transpacific trade partnership, the tpp agreement, which the president decided to opt out of. What was unique about that agreement is not only was it the rest of the world uniting against china isolating china on the issue of intellectual property. Thats important. It was an agreement that upgraded all the other trade agreements like nafta and made Everything Else easier to deal with and put it through that process of protecting our potential secrets at the same time that we had a unified force against china to play by what we decided from the worlds rules not just our rules. Part of the problem is that there are workers in america who manufacture things, who dont now. Whether its in the carolinas or in the midwest grew up in detroit. Exactly. They are susceptible to the art that if we dont protect Certain Industries basically one day the chinese or the bangladeshis or whom ever has low wage labor will be manufacturing everything. That was the argument in the 1980s. This is very much a 1980s approach to trade. It was japan, inc. , back in the 80s as opposed to china, inc. I remember it well growing up in detroit. Look at steel. They saved a few jobs in the Steel Industry. They offed opportunities for people buying Steel Companies to make a lot of money out of bankrupt Steel Companies that then did better. But what they cost was hundreds of us thats of auto jobs, automobile jobs. Actually, the very tariffs that we thought would help manufacturing jobs in the Steel Industry hurt jobs in those industries which were larger and much more broad based that consumed the steel, in auto sectorer and the trucking sector. This is important the look at, the tradeoff that you are getting by protecting. It is a tax. An aggressive tax where consumers who earn less are hit harder. Its also a tax that is at the expense of other jobs, more jobs than it saves. At the end of the day even though there are legitimate reasons to deal with the disputes we have there is a better way to deal with them. There is also a different traitoff. I mentioned this with the cap. The chinese cap in theory is going to cost less than the american cap unless there is a tariff pit ut on it. We like inexpensive goods. We have done really well with inflation over the last decade or so because we have found as to make things cheaper than we could have. I guess its hard because we like to buy the less expensive product but we dont always think of the implications of doing so. Exactly. Lets go one step further. Inflation over time puts you into a recession. Thats what trade wars do, reciprocate or deepen a recession. One of the reasons in 2008 we didnt go into a depression was that when all of us were facing the storm to the in the world we saw the g20. A larger group not just the g7 all put ouror in the water at the same time to get to land. We had coordinated policies not to do that. I think thats very important as well. Diian swan, chief economist at grant thornton. This just in, the Chinese State has said in a statement a 25 tariff will take effect on july 6th on agricultural products, automobiles, and aquatic products. We will talk more about that once we get more detail. That wraps up this busy hour for me. Have a great weekend. Deadline white house with Nicolle Wallace starts right now. Hi, everyone. Its 4 00 in new york. Paul manafort is about to spend his first night in jail. And it could be the first of many. A judge saying today that she cannot turn a blind eye to charges of witness tampering that occurred as recently as this april. Quote, this is not milled school. I cant take away his cell phone, the judge said. If i tell him not to call 56 witnesses, will he call the 57th . Manafort will remain in jail through thinks trial in september on charges of Money Laundering and conspiracy. The president weighed in on this news with a defensive rant. Wow, what a tough sentence for Paul Manafort, who has