Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20200922

Along with joe, willie and me, we have jonathan lemire, correspondent and host of way too early kasie dc, kasie hunt joins us. Willie, you know what i usually do every saturday morning when i wake up, right uhoh. Of course you know. Weve talked about it for a long time. I get my weekend started and the way i do that on saturday mornings, i get my bible out and i start annotating it. Get the shotgun out, you got to clean it, right . Clean your shotguns folks. So im cleaning the shotgun and usually on saturday mornings what do i do . I watch two or three john wayne movies. I love john wayne. Great. How the west was won amazing. A lot of great john wayne movies. But this saturday i decided to do the most southern thing possible and watch English Premier League football, and i did it this is a huge wind up, by the way. We have a lot to cover. By watching it on peacock because thats what they do, they trap you. I do like peacock. They trapped me. So i had to download peacock. And when i did and this is like this is so obvious to you i know and everybody else, but i rediscovered 30 rock. And ive got to say, its like the office, its better the second and the third and fourth time you watch these shows. Because i watched them all the first time through, we were huge fans. But jack donahey, one of the great tv characters of all time. When you pick up the second, third, fourth time you watch these shows over a decade, is what we already knew of course, tina faye is a great writer. But watching it again, i mean, its just every line she is such an extraordinary writer. And packed so much into that show. Its just remarkable. It was a big wind up, but it was worth it. I wasnt sure where you were going. But it was worth it. Youre right, one of the Silver Linings of this terrible time is you had time with family, and your kids become a certain age like mine have, and you can go back and watch the shows like the office, the simpsons, and 30 rock. Theres a joke every moment and rarely do they fall flat. Liz lemon, one of the best characters in the history of tv. Tracie jordan is one of the best characters in the history of tv. That show is so good and my daughter just turned 13, my son is 11. They get it. Theyre plugged into the jokes and they love it. Yes, im with you on that. By the way, peacock, full of great things to go back to and watch like the office and 30 rock. Lemire, you and i were talking about 30 rock. Were sending quotes and clips back and forth to each other all weekend because we have nothing else to do. Lets face it, theres nothing going on in the world, this is a down time. But 30 rock, and you agreed that alec baldwins character is just extraordinary. Its a restful, quiet time, joe, no news to keep track of. Certainly no baseball season to Pay Attention to. I hope every time we mention peacock we get a ding or something. We need to work on that. But jack donahey is, as we said, one of the singular Great Television characters. Following his examples after 6 00 every evening i switch into my tuxedo. There you go. Okay. Speaking of baseball, im not good at math, but from my calculations really quick, joe. The red sox are about two wins away from locking down a playoff berth. Something like that. Or wait, maybe its being the worst team in baseball, let me check it out. You go into that computer box there and figure it out. Well go to the Campaign Rally last night in ohio. President trump told supporters that the coronavirus affects, quote, virtually nobody. Now know the disease. We didnt know it. Now we know it. It affects elderly people. Elderly people with heart problems and other problems. If they have other problems, thats what it really affects, thats it. In some states, thousands of people nobody young. Below the age of 18, like nobody. They have a strong immune system, who knows. Take your hat off to the young because they have a hell of an immune system but it affects virtually nobody. Its an amazing thing. Back in march, this is what the president acknowledged to bob woodward about young people and the virus. Now its turning out its not just old people, bob, but just today and yesterday some startling facts came out. Its not just old, older people, its plenty of young people. So willie, we have so much to talk about what went on at this event. Superspreader event. It does get worse the more you read it. But 200,000 people dead, donald trump said it doesnt affect the young. Which again, hes still lying to people at superspraedead events while hes on stage and theyre clustered together while they spread the virus and potentially kill each other, he has no contact with him. While they force people to wear masks behind donald trump whos telling everybody clustered together well show you a clip in a second where a Lieutenant Governor is booed for asking people to wear masks. Booed. This is going to be looked back upon, it really is, i think the way that we look back at the salem whiitch trials where just mass insanity takes over a group of people and kills many of them. And kills a lot of them, and they ignore they choose superstition over science. They choose the well, they choose, basically, death over life. Look at this look at this clip. This is the Lieutenant Governor of ohio who was booed for suggesting the audience wear masks. Remember, masks can keep you from getting the virus. And Donald Trumps own government and spreading it. Has said its more effective, actually, than even a vaccine. If you go into a Grocery Store where you got to wear one, all right hang on. Hang on. Just listen up. Just listen up. All right. I get it. But if somebody tells you to take it off, you can at least say that youre trying to save the country by wearing one of president Donald Trumps masks, all right. [ audience reacts ] so willie, the stupidity, actually, that is exhibited there, and ill say it, like the people in the crowd have heard their own president say on tape privately that this spreads through the air. Theyve heard Donald Trumps own government say repeatedly to wear a mask. That it not only saves lives, get this, idiots that are in the audience booing, wearing a mask, get this, it saves jobs. If you dont give a damn paabou lives, how about your job, your neighbors job . Anybodys job . This economy is not getting better. Over the past several weeks ive heard one business person from another throughout our economic infrastructure telling me that 2021 is going to be terrible. It doesnt matter who gets elected. Its going to be terrible because this pandemic is not going away for a while. And even when we have a vaccine, that only protects 50 of us, but, of course, people arent taking the vaccine when they get it based on new polling. Why . Because donald trump is lying about everything. But and we didnt have to be here. We didnt have to be here by the way. 200,000 people didnt have to die. We cant say today how many deaths donald trump is responsible for or the senate is not responsible for for not standing up to donald trump. But historians will and it will be staggering. Going back to donald trump saying known gets this. That will be news to the world war ii heroes, men and women from the greatest generation. News to vietnam vets who died. News to the 200,000 people who died that virtually nobody gets this and nobody young gets this. When, again, he admitted all this to bob woodward six months ago, three months ago, one month ago. And the people in the audience, the people that are still voting for donald trump despite that, despite the fact that hes still lying to them, it really is it is beyond beyond rationalizing. You cant rationalize it. Its a cult at this point. It is a cult at this point. Postwoodward we know that everything that donald trump is saying fits under this umbrella of i wanted to play this down. He gave up the game when he went on the tape with bob woodward, and we can play the tape again about how he knows this is airborne, deadly, a killer, how he calls it the plague. And yet goes on the stage in ohio and says it affected virtually nobody. We know hes talking about young people. But we know more than half a million children have contracted coronavirus, so thats not true either. He knows that. As for the masks hes created this culture. Theres no getting around it. Jonathan lemire he has gone out from the beginning, mocked reporters for wearing masks, mocked joe biden recently, in fact, for wearing a mask, as if its some infringement on freedom. Instead of taking the leadership position, which is your freedom is preserved by wearing a mask because this ends sooner and you go back to work and get to see College Football and all the things we want to see in our culture, the mask is the path to freedom but donald trump wont say it. Weve lost jonathan lemires exactly. One more thing, willie. It does n that does not work n boston, jonathan lemires microphone. To the point of so many who have died and the point of a cult, which has come up in analysis that weve been reading about this presidency. With 200,000 dead, with science telling us, willie, that mitigation practices that have been successfully used in other countries being flouted by this presidency, masks that they could have sent out to americans across the country, guidance that they could have sent out to americans across the country again, that they blocked. Mobilizing the defense production act so they could have gotten mass testing quicker to people across the country. These are choices not to choose Simple Science to save lives. I mean, isnt that pushing people in the wrong direction . Isnt that the carnage that trump was talking about . Isnt this, in its own sick way, a massacre . If we have 80,000 american lives that could have been saved had he actually followed basic mitigation measures that other countries have put in place and have saved lives . I mean, at what point who could do this at their company . Who could do this at their School System . Who could do this at their local business . And not end up in jail. I think the answer to that, willie, is nobody. He said last night again were turning the corner. No were not hes lying. He said my plan is to crush the virus. Theres no plan. Hes throwing things out in the atmosphere and hoping he can get through to election day. Meanwhile the cdc removed the previous language that coronavirus can spread through the air. On friday the agency updated its website and said the virus can transmit beyond 6 feet and indoor ventilation was vital to prevent prevent infection. Before then they noted that it spread between people in close contact and droplets. Yesterday it was confirmed to the Washington Post that the agency was scrubbed of that on airborne spread saying, quote, unfortunately an early draft went up without any review. Cdc is currently updating its recommend Deputy Attorney generals regarding airborne trance missions. Its now the third major revision to cdc information or guidelines since may. So it continues, kasie, the cdc gets something on its website, puts it down because it doesnt match what the president is saying, the politicization of the organizations continues. Willie, the centers for Disease Control and prevention are supposed to be the world standard for this. The entire world, for the past several decades, has looked to the cdc for guidance to lead the way. And now you have other groups of doctors literally forming their own councils. There was one medical association that announced they were going to form their own group to try and make these decisions and recommendations because theyre concerned about the quality of the cdcs information. And there is a long list of examples of places where this the Trump Administration has sown doubt about its own government and the information coming out of its own government. But this one rises to the level of lives saved and lost. And what is the calculation behind this. If you say it doesnt spread through the air perhaps its easier to justify opening Indoor Dining or sending kids back to school, even if their school has not been retro fitted with the right kind of air conditioner or hvac system to move the air throughout the building. All of us, as we have collected information and talked to friends and family and struggled to figure out what we should do based on the cdc guidance, have figured out being in a closed indoor nonventilated space is not a safe space to be. This is something you can figure out from other organizations providing this type of information. Its a challenge no matter who wins the election. Rebuilding the trust in this is something well be grappling with for years if not decades to come. Jonathan lemire, this is really is incredible. So much is thrown at us every day, at americans, and but this is a reality. And even members of Donald Trumps own administration have said this. If you wear a mask, you cut the virus by the risk of the virus spreading by 80 . The virus would go down 80 if all americans wore masks, then our numbers would have plummeted a long time ago. And we would get through this fall okay and businesses would open up. Donald trump knows that. The cdc has said that. Dr. Fauci has said that. The World Health Organization has said that. You look at numbers in japan, a country thats really not slowed down that much where almost everybody is wearing masks. Their rate of infection throughout the year has been so much lower than ours. Why . Better doctors . No. Better hospitals . No. Better Research Centers . No. More money . No. They wore masks. Its that simple. And donald trump is actually indoctrinated people into booing a Lieutenant Governor that comes up on stage because he wants to save peoples lives and because he wants ohioans to get back to work. And hes so indoctrinated these people that they boo when a guy gives them something simple that they can do to save lives and get the economy kick started again. And you look at donald trump, that selfish, angry man, who doesnt care whether you live or die i think i can say that, he does not care you look at the masks on the people behind him because they are ordered, they are forced, they are compelled to wear masks if theyre behind donald trump. And yet, people in front of donald trump arent im just curious, you look at the pictures of donald trump speaking, im wondering are the Constitutional Rights why do Donald Trumps Staff Members strip away the Constitutional Rights of everybody sitting behind donald trump . Why do they infringe on their most basic freedoms . The freedoms for which washington crossed the delaware river. The freedoms for which grant fought during the civil war. The freedoms for which american soldiers went to vietnam and sack fied so much. The freedom for which our soldiers and sailors and airmen and marines for 230 years have fought for the freedom for you not to wear a mask. Because thats what donald trump is saying. But jonathan lemire, of course, its all nonsense. Its really its all dangerous, dangerous superstition. And donald trump would rather people die than stop lying, stop carrying through on the lie that hes been telling the American People since this spring. Even though, privately he admits he knows this is bad and its airborne. Well, first of all, joe, apologizes for borrowing Mike Barnicles audio this morning. But youre right, from the early days of the pandemic, the president decided to politicize masks. Once there was a consensus that masks were helpful, stop the spread of the virus, he decided this could be a culture issue. Remember the liberate rallies we saw, they got coverage on fox news, the president watched that. And also he saw it as vanity. He figured it would focus more on the health point than the economy. It was last week, youll recall that the cdc director testified and said that a mask, in his estimation, would be more effective than a vaccine in terms of stopping the spread of the virus, in terms of protecting himself and others say that again. The cdc director last week testified before congress and said that in his estimation, wearing a mask was more effective than a vaccine in terms of preventing the spread of the virus and protecting himself and others. I asked the president in the White House Briefing room on that and said, you have poured a lot of energy into developing a vaccine, a lot of resources, why have you not done something similar in terms of promoting mask wearing, and why not you wear them and encourage the white house staff wear them to set an example. His response was he doesnt need to wear a mask because hes always tested so hes not at risk of contracting or spreading the virus. I said you could be sending a message to the American Public and he did not answer that. Thats why, while we do see people behind him in the rallies asked to wear masks, the rest of the attendees, even indoor rallies like we had last week in arizona and nevada, those indoors no one wore masks. As a final point you played the clip about the Lieutenant Governor of ohio encouraging those there to wear masks, do you know what spreads the virus easily . Booing at loud volume while not wearing a mask. Thats what was happening right then in that moment. It is absolute insanity. And mika, donald trump has had it backward. Hes been pushing this vaccine instead of doing, actually, whats easiest and what scientifically is safest. Thats the crazy part. If he had been pushing masks, theres no telling how many more people would be alive. And the fact were even talking about this on a news show, because people have been indoctrinated into this cult where they boo doctors advice, where they boo scientists advice, where they boo basic science is insanity. So what hes doing now is, hes lying about a vaccine, hes lying about when its going to be out. Hes lying about how effective its going to be and hes not doing his job. And hes not doing the basic job. Think about this if you are watching, and i doubt you are, because if youre in Donald Trumps cult, you probably arent watching. But you may have family members. Maybe youll have family members that can tell you this, but youll shout fake news, before you spread coronavirus to your friends and neighbors. But even if we get a vaccine by the beginning of next year, the estimate is its going to take at least until august or september for enough people to get the vaccine to start making a difference if it works. And heres the second part of it, we dont know it works. And the third part, even the vaccine is considered effective, guess what, at best you have a 50 chance under the best of all circumstances, that that vaccine will be effective on you. And guess what its not going to be any different than a flu shot. You take the flu shot to lessen your chances of getting the flu. But you still get the flu some years. So you, your loved ones, will still possibly have a 50 chance of getting the coronavirus even after you get the vaccine. If you dare take a vaccine from this president who is so hostile to doctors advice. Unless, of course, it affects him and his health. Its insanity. But you could wear a mask right now. Dont be stupid, dont kill people, wear a mask. To that point lets get to news. More than six months into the coronavirus pandemic, get this, hospitals are still facing shortages of n95 masks and respirato respirators. Creating fear among Health Care Workers that during the winter season they still wont have enough supplies fr. Thanks, donald. So hes holding super spraedsprae superspra superspreader events and his hospitals dont have enough supplies to keep america safe. Donald trump has used the defense production act far less when it comes to n95 masks allowing major manufacturers to scale up as they see fit and new manufacturers to go untapped and under funded. This has left organizations that represent Health Care Workers and facilities pleading for more federal intervention while the administration maintains the government has done enough and that the ppe industry has stepped up on its own. Willie . The Louisville Police have declared a state of emergency ahead of a grand jury decision into the investigation of the killing of breonna taylor. It allows the police to operate under staffing. Taylor was shot and killed by narcotics officers serving a noknock warrant at her apartment. Theyll see if police violated any Police Policies during the incident. And the firefighter who died while battling the eldorado fire in San Bernardino county has been identified. Charles morton was a 14 year veteran with the service and led the big bear agency hot squad. He was killed while conducting Fire Suppression on the blaze last thursday. The fire erupted nearly two weeks before mortons death and has burned nearly 23,000 acres. 60 has been contained as of last night. The cause of the fire has been linked to a pyrotechnic device used at a gender reveal party. Still ahead, jon tester and st st Stacey Abrams and h. R. Mcmaster. And as the death toll from the coronavirus pandemic climbs to past 200,000 in this country, the New York Times is putting faces and names to the numbers, in a series entitled those weve lost. Among them, captain tommy searcy, who last year saved the life of a colleague distinguishing a house fire. He was 45. He was the third houston firefighter whose death was linked to covid19. He is survived by his three daughters. Well be right back. Daughters. Well be right back. From prom dresses. To soccer practices. And new adventures. You hope the more you give the less theyll miss. But even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past. They may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. Lets help protect them together. Because missing menb vaccination could mean missing out on a whole lot more. Ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination. When you have depression, teen it can plunge you into deep, dark lows. And, can leave you feeling extremely sad and disinterested. Overwhelmed by bipolar depression . Ask about vraylar. Not all types of depression should be treated the same. Vraylar effectively helps relieve all symptoms of bipolar depression. With just one pill, once a day. Elderly patients with dementiarelated psychosis have an increased risk of death or stroke. Call your doctor about unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. Antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. Report fever, stiff muscles or confusion, which may mean a lifethreatening reaction, or uncontrollable muscle movements, which may be permanent. Side effects may not appear for several weeks. Metabolic changes may occur. Nausea, restlessness and Movement Dysfunction are common side effects. When bipolar depression overwhelms, ask how vraylar can help. Its made for him a veteran who honorably served and its made for her shes serving now we also made usaa for military spouses and their kids become a member. Get an insurance quote today. Welcome back. One of special counsel Robert Muellers top lieutenants says the Investigative Team failed to do all it could have to determine what happened in the 2016 election for fear of being fired. Former Justice Department prosecutor andrew weesman writes in his book the team could have done more in its exploration of ties between trump, the Trump Campaign and russia during the 2016 race. In the first insider account of the probe that led to impeachment, wiseman says the team shied away from scrutinizing the president s finances to avoid being disbanded. He was frustrated by the choice not to subpoena the president. While he expresses considerable respect for his former boss he says he believes mueller may have been ill suited for such a politically charged investigation and the former fbi director should have said that the president obstructed justice. He lists what he believes to be the questions still left unanswered. Among them he writes, we do not know if he had other russian business deals in the works at the time he was running for president. How they might have added or constrained his campaign or even if they are continuing to influence his presidency. Andrew wiseman will be our guest on morning joe next tuesday for his new book where law ends, inside the Mueller Investigation. Joining us is michael submitted author of the book donald trump versus the United States. Were getting a better picture of what exactly went on behind the scenes by the book thats coming out, and also by your book, donald trump versus the United States and what woodward was saying. And you put it all together and really a good were starting to get a good view of really the battles going on behind the scenes. But there have been a lot of questions and you write about this process, about mueller deciding not to state the obvious, that donald trump committed obstruction of justice. Robert mueller deciding not to subpoena the president and force him to sit for an interview, just like Rudy Giuliani had said bill clinton would have been forced to sit for an interview. Also, you know, they got criminal referrals from the Republican Senate Intel Committee for don junior and jared kushner. Nothing ever came of that. Tell us what youve learned from this reporting thats come out, compare it to your book. And whats whats this the scene look like now for you as you piece all of these different puzzle pieces together. Well, what comes out from weissmans book is quite a compelling, detailed and insightful account in ways that none of us have been able to sort of penetrate and get inside of this investigation. And here you have this top lieutenant whos basically saying in just the most stark terms possible they didnt do everything they could to get to the bottom of this. At the most fundamental level, here we are almost four years into this presidency and there has not been a full accounting of the president s ties to russia. And, you know, people have said it in different ways, but weissman puts a fine point on that. And thats just a sort of devastating sort of thing, certainly for democrats, who looked at mueller and looked at his investigation as something that was going to get to the bottom and answer these things. So like many things, when the fire comes from inside in the sense here you have an insider, a member of the team, coming forward to speak out like this and to describe how this deputy of muellers was an obstacle to getting to the bottom of things, it just really, really tarnishes the legacy of this investigation. And you of course, the most damning thing weve learn over the past month is Donald Trumps own director of national intelligence, not a democrat, a trump appointee, a lifelong republican, a republican senator, an evangelical, a republican ambassador, left his job believing that donald trump was compromised by Vladimir Putin. Im wondering if you get from this book the and from all of your reporting, if you get the feeling or if you have reporting where people that were working with Robert Mueller said that he was physically and mentally somehow compromised by Health Challenges and that made him less effective . So, as i write in my book, mueller struggled in the practice sessions that he had leading up to his testimony. He struggled to recall basic facts about the investigation. And whats going on at this time, while mueller is struggling in these practice sessions, is that theyre trying to get his deputy at the table with mueller to testify, because they wanted zeble there to be able to answer questions. And then mueller, the republicans ultimately pushed back on that and you have mueller more or less testifying by himself. And if you talk to folks that know mueller or if youve even watched mueller testify before, mueller had testified before congress probably more than any other living american because he was the fbi director for 12 years testifying constantly on capitol hill. The mueller that testified, it was just a different it was just a different mueller. And his testimony was not very effective at sort of establishing the facts of the investigation and being authoritative here. The struggle of the Mueller Investigation that you have to look at, certainly since its been completed, is that mueller sort of seeded the ground, in terms of the Public Relations on this. That allowed barr to come in and hold his press conference and clear the president the way that he did. It allowed for the report to be taken in Different Directions by the republicans. And by seeding that ground and not saying anything and not having their story out there, they have been hurt. Now, we are hearing from an insider, in one of the first accounts, and its not a flat r flattering picture. Mike, you mentioned aaron zeble, a special counsel on the team and aide to Robert Mueller. For example, subpoenaing ivanka trump, issuing a subpoena to donald trump jr. Because they feared President Trumps wrath but also the wrath of the rightwing media. Can you speak to that, does that ring true that decisions were made because they didnt want to anger people on the right . Look, if you just look at the mueller report, you look at the fact their explanation for not making a decision on obstruction, you look and try and find detailed accounts about what they found about the president s ties to russia, you can see in the report sort of what i would call an old world approach to a new world problem. Donald trump is, you know is an interesting and different and new challenge. And there is a tone and approach to the Mueller Investigation where they were just going to lay out the facts. And i believe in weissmans book, i havent read it. But i believe theres criticism in the language of the report that the report is too restrained and there was sort of this notion they were going to lay out the facts and sort of let it sort of take care of itself. I think if weve seen anything in the world we live in today, that does not necessarily work and that you really need to be sort of your own advocate for your own product. And there was deep frustration on the mueller team after barr sort of came in, was able to grab the reins of the report and take it in the direction he wanted to take it. That happened because the special counsels office in some ways allowed that to happen. They would probably say they were operating within the guidelines of what they could and could not do. But at the end of the day, more than a year more than a year out from this investigation, it just it looks like Something Different than certainly when we were in covering it. Mike, youve spent so much time talking to people whove known bob mueller for years and years and reported on him extensively. Given what youve just laid out here and what were learning in the book, do you think bob mueller has any regrets about how he did this . Im not sure. You know, look, i think they found themselves in an incredibly difficult situation. And i think they were trying to navigate it as best as possible. I think its very easy to look back on decisions that are made and say, well, you should have done this, you should have done that and such and sort of monday morning quarterback it. At the same time i think that the to have someone from within the investigation, and probably the most high profile prosecutor on the investigation, come out and write a book that lays out the how they didnt do enough and they could have done more and that there are significant unanswered questions, i think that that is just sort of just a devastating thing. And that really really undermines the product of the report. Because that is something that people will always now associate with it, that one of these top deputies came out and said these things about this this investigation that certainly democrats put an enormous amount of faith in to get to the bottom of things. Michael schmidt, thank you very much for coming on with your reporting this morning. The book is donald trump versus the United States. And boy, you read woodwards book and mikes book and this book coming out next week about the Mueller Investigation, and my gosh, you really are starting to get a picture of just how bad things were behind closed doors. Coming up our next guest brought together some of the worlds brightest minds for a comprehensive look at how covid19 is changing the world from the economy to Global Health and politics. As we go to break, a note that joe has a book coming out, its a new book called saving freedom, truman the cold war and the fight for western civilization is coming out november 17th. You can preorder now. Well be right back. Introducing stocks by the slice from fidelity. Now you can trade stocks and etfs for any amount you choose instead of buying by the share. All with no commissions. Stocks by the slice from fidelity. Get your slice today. And now your copilot. Still a father. But now a friend. Still an electric car. Just more electrifying. Still a night out. But everything fits in. 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Sensodyne sensitivity gum gives us the dual action effect that really takes care of both our teeth sensitivity as well as our gum issues. Theres no question its something that i would recommend. Welcome back to morning joe. The United Kingdom is entering a second wave of the coronavirus pandemic and Prime Minister Boris Johnson is expected to announce that pubs, bars and restaurants will have to close by 10 00 p. M. Ordinarily there are no restrictions on closing times but the new rules are the strictest since night life was allowed to resume in july. Boris johnson is set to address Parliament Today as the uk moved its coronavirus alert from level three to level four, which means transmission is high or rising. Joining us is hall brant, the coeditor of the new book, covid19 and world order, the future of competition and cooperation. A compilation of essays on coronavirus and the governments around the world. The World Health Organization just a couple of minutes ago announced that cases are accelerating around the world, up to 2 million of the seven day average around the world cases of coronavirus. So there is a second wave coming. But youre taking a longer view of what coronavirus will mean for the world order as you look out over the horizon, how do you see the world being reshaped by this . We think there are a couple of different scenarios at least that could play out. And a lot of it does depend on the trajectory of the virus itself. So one scenario might be if the world is successful in getting a handle on the virus after a first wave or a relatively moderate second wave, then the disruptions that covid causes on the International Scene will be limited. Whereas if there are successive waves of the virus as looks as though may be the case today, the disruptions will be more severe. I think one of the things that were seeing from covid is the reason it has had such an impact on International Relations is it erupted in a world that is already increasingly disordered. Whether its the blow back against globalization, the increasing challenge to democracy, the rise of Great Power Competition between the United States and china or the strains within the democratic world there were already a variety of problems that International Leaders were confronting and covid has had the effect of exacerbating many of them amid a number of dimensions. Hall, impressed with the range of contributors and points of view and also the rate of speed of which you put this together, but obviously it makes sense in a pandemic we need some assessments now as to where were going. Can you talk about the impact on the economy, especially the United States of america . We have the white house saying were going to bounce right back, its all good. What are you prognosticating after the work youve done . Well, i think there are two ways of looking at this, one on the National Economy and one on the interNational Economy. On the National Economy it seems pretty clear even though the white house seems determined to resist this conclusion that the quickest way to a robust american recovery is getting the virus under control. That would be the most stimulative measure the United States would take. And while the damage that covid has inflicted on the American Economy hasnt been as bad as might have been feared in march and april in the middle of the shutdowns its clear we wont get back to the level of growth we would like to see until theres greater progress on the Public Health front. With respect to the global economy, covid caused the fastest deglobalization in history. If you remember back in march and april, borders slammed shut basically overnight. Trade pleum meted. It was an unraveling of an economy that came together over decades. Were not likely to see that covid will reverse globalization. I think well see a reglobalization along geopolitical lines. So the United States and other democracies will be less happy to have critical dependencies, whether in the area of ppe or High Technology from authoritarian competitors like china. So while they continue to promote economic integration, it will and should be economic integration within the geopolitical community that the United States leads rather than across geopolitical lines. So lets talk about china specifically. I loved your interview with former cia director mike morale on intelligence matters. And you talked about a relationship with china, and your conclusion seems to be seems to lineup with what Richard Haass had said on this show months ago that covid doesnt bend history, its not going to change history, its going to accelerate history. And you suggested that one of the effects of covid is that china will they seek parity or perhaps even dominance over the United States and this is actually just expedited that process. Explain. So i think covid has created a sense that chinas window of opportunity has opened more quickly than the chinese might have expected. Its been clear for a number of years that at a minimum the chinese aspire to become the dominant power in the asia pacific and perhaps the leading power globally. I think covid had an effect similar to the 2008, 2009 financial crisis where it created the impression in beijing that the United States was unable to cope with a Significant International crisis. And so there was a possibility of pushing harder to expand chinese influence. So one of the really remarkable patterns weve seen over the past six to seven months is the dramatic uptick in chinese assert iveness, whether its the border dispute with india that turned deadly or snuffing out the autonomy of hong kong or aggressively coercing taiwan or pushing claims in the south china sea. Theres been an increase in chinas willingness to Court International tension to expand its influence. And i think we should expect that to continue for the foreseeable future. One more quick question on that point quickly we have to wrap but i want your input on this. I was speaking last night to an International Financier who does a lot of work in china i said how are things going in china . Like you said, he said they see it as a great opportunity and the thing the United States doesnt pay enough attention to is the fact that the chinese are modernizing and expanding their military at an extraordinary rate. And this is this is the new cold war. This is the soviet union with a good economy and most americans really havent awakened to that fact yet. Is that your read as well . I think thats right. While we sometimes overstate the achievements of chinas economy, its true china will pose a different type of great power threat to the United States than any previous competitors have because the United States has never faced a great power competitor with an economy close to the size of its own. And china has used its Economic Growth over the last 25 years to undertake what must be the most astounding military build up in peacetime history with an eye to changing the balance of power in the western pacific. The new book is covid19 and world order, the future of conflict, competition and cooperation. Hall, thank you so much for working with your colleagues on putting this together. Everybody, if they want a sense of where we stand right now should take a look at this. Thank you. Still ahead New York Times peter baker gin us with reporter as republicans fall in line to support a vote on the new Supreme Court nominee. And later, former National Security advisor under President Trump, h. R. Mcmaster will be our guest. Were back in a moment. Mcmasterr guest. re back in a moment its official National Coffee day is now National Dunkin day celebrate with a free medium hot or iced coffee with any purchase on september 29th. In the final days of her life, my grandmother and i spoke a lot about a lot of things. And i asked her if there was anything she wanted to say to the public, to anyone that wasnt already out there. And she said there was. And i pulled out my computer and she dictated the following sentence to me. She said, my most fervent wish is that i will not be replaced until a new president is installed. Well, i dont know that she said that or was that written out by adam schiff and schumer and pelosi. It sounds like somebody else. It could be, it could be, and it might not be too. It was just too convenient. Thats just too horrible. But i mean, its predictable. Theres another way to actually say it, if youre going to ignore Ruth Bader Ginsburgs wishes, you could always say, she was a great justice and even though i didnt agree with her on every decision that she wrote, what a trail blazer, what a great trail blazer and as we move forward, were going to do what we think is best for this country, and leave it at that. That would be impossible. Welcome back to morning joe. Theres just no need for the man to attack the family in the days following and many of his popular followers did the same thing. Of course they did. Welcome back to morning joe its tuesday, september 22nd. Jonathan lemire is still with us. Along with joe, willie and me, we have peter baker, political analyst Eugene Robinson and washington anchor for bbc world news America Katty Kay joins us. So Senate Republicans continue to push for a vote on a Supreme Court nominee less than 50 days before the election. As of today there are 43 days until november 3rd and 104 days until the end of this congress. The senate has more than sufficient time to process a nomination. History and precedent make that perfectly clear. It was clear precedent behind the predictable outcome that came out of 2016. And theres even more overwhelming precedent behind the fact that this senate will vote on this nomination this year. Were going to keep our word, once again. Were going to vote on this nomination on this floor. Weve got the votes to confirm Justice Ginsburgs replacement before the election well move forward in the committee, report the nomination out of the committee to the floor of the United States senate. Thats the process. After cavanaugh everything changed with me, theyre not going to intimidate me, Mitch Mcconnell or anybody else. You know, its really lets be clear about something here. Okay. Lets be clear about something. Whenever one of these Supreme Court vacancies open up, obviously so much is at stake, people get really upset. Emotional for sure. Get really emotional. But when you want to talk about the breechiaching of constituti norms, you can find that, legal actions by donald trump, you can find that. You see him interfering with fbi investigations, with trying to interfere with Justice Department guidelines. You see him commuting sentences of people that may be involved in crimes that he was involved with. You see what hes doing with tiktok. And thats breaching thats breaching political norms and constitutional norms and its something, you know, challenging challenging federal judges authority, that is frightening. And its something that should frighten all americans. The president calling the free press enemies of the people. Thats frightening. So i could go on and on. I could tell you all the things that donald trump has done and all the things that the Republican Senate has done that caused me grave concerns, even as a conservative. But it is within their right, because they won the presidency. Right. And they won the senate. If they can get it through, thats within their right. All right. So Lindsey Graham is right about one thing. And that is that this is their constitutionally protected right. And this is not the breaching of a constitutional norm. Its political hard ball. And i say that with the knowledge of course, Lindsey Graham cant look past the end of his nose to understand this. But when democrats take control of the senate, when democrats win the presidency, if, in fact, they do that, then its their ball game. And they can do what they want to do politically. And, you know, this started with harry reed in 2013, and the democrats deciding to get rid of the filibuster for federal judges. And then it went downhill even more when republicans applied that to Supreme Court picks, something that none of us ever thought would happen. It started with harry reed, then Mitch Mcconnell, now we see what happened with Merrick Garland, just really deeply offensive. It was within their right but it was deeply offensive and deeply offensive the lies that just spew out of Lindsey Grahams mouth. The lies. And steve daines, the lies that just spew out of their mouths, they lied to the people of montana so effortlessly, so easily. They lie to the people of South Carolina so effortlessly and so easily. Thats the real problem. But understand on the other side of this election, understand in 2021 if democrats decide to do what they decide to do, which who knows, maybe theyll decide to expand the Supreme Court to 11 or 12. Oh, will republicans scream and yell . Sure they will. But guess what, they can do that constitutionally. Theres nothing in the constitution that says that there have to be nine justices. That number has expanded throughout american history. It may expand again. So theres always a reaction to a radical move. And the thing ive always found, one of the ill just say it. One of the number things ive seen from washington politicians in both parties is they seem to think that the status quo will always remain the way it is. That theyll always be in power. And nobody is looking past the end of their noses. Theyre all day traders. So when they wake up in january or february and they dont like what the democrats are doing, if the democrats have complete control of washington d. C. , well, guess what, they set the precedent. But, willie, i will say i put that out, they have the constitutional right to do this, the further debate around Supreme Court justices, while i say that, i am so rarely surprised by what happens in washington and so rarely distressed by what i read a politician doing, but i will say maybe its because ive known lindsey for so long and we spent so much time together in the house, just distressed by the fact that he lies so easily in public. He lies to his constituents without any remorse. He does it in the open and he says something thats really just not true. He says, you would do the same thing too if the shoe were on the other foot. No. Actually, lindsey, no, i know a lot of people that both you and i served with that would never do that. I know a ton of people, guys like jc watts, matt salmon, john shaddock, i can go down the list. People we came into congress with, roulindsey, when we promi our constituents something, you know, we did it. And willie, i just again, i dont want to say this is a new low, because there have been so many things that have happened over the past four years, but it is i find myself actually shocked that Lindsey Graham gives his word to the people of South Carolina, gives his word to the American People during the 2016 Senate Hearings and then in 2018, after kavanaugh, gives his word to the American People again while talking to Jeffrey Goldberg and then just lies with absolutely no remorse to the people of South Carolina. Listen, as James Madison said, if men were angels we wouldnt need a government. Were not angels. Nobody is perfect. But the degree of duplicity here is about as unprecedented as i can remember. Shameless. And as weve shown this week, its all on tape. These are things, he was adamant and selfrighteous about it in 2016 if its us in four years you hold me to this standard. Here we are four years later holding him to this standard and what he thinks is his out is kavanaugh changed everything for me. Forget what i said back then. The problem with that logic is, letsly on out the cronology. The moment with Jeffrey Goldberg was october 3rd, after the ugliness of the testimony. So after the testimony he said hold me to this standard in 2020. Now hes saying kavanaugh changed everything for me. Its on tape, out in front of everybody. So youre right, they have the constitutional right, its well within President Trumps Constitutional Authority to do what hes doing right here. What were talking about is hypocrisy and shame. Neither of which seem to bother Lindsey Graham and others. Meanwhile, two more republican senators have switched their positions on whether president s should appointment Supreme Court nominees in an election year. Chuck grassley and cory gardner both said theyll support moving ahead with the nomination. 2016 when president obama nominated Merrick Garland, senator grassley said, quote, the American People should not be denied a voice. Today he said this, the constitution gives the senate that authority and the American Peoples voices in the most recent election could not be clearer. While there was ambiguity in 2016 under a divided government, theres no ambiguity in 2020 so make no maistake, if the shoe were on the other foot, the democrats would not hesitate to use their Constitutional Authority and Everything Else at their authority to fill their seat. In 2016, guaardner said this, t next president should have the ability to appoint a va can see. Lets bring in jake sherman, an msnbc political distributor. So, jake, as you know, a lot of eyes were on grassley and gardner and mitt romney, the romney vote is effectively moot, if they get three, its a 50 50 tie and mike pence decides the election. How are you senators you talked to publicly or privately explaining their flip on this fundamental question four years ago. Exactly what joe said its raw political power. The for a lot of people filling the seat is more important than winning reelection. Thats just the reality. Thats the importance the republicans have put on the Supreme Court and judges. Let me explain cory gardner, hes from a purple state that he needs to bring out the red rural parts of colorado to the polls if he wants to win reelection. Hes not going to win reelection in denver, boulder. He needs to bring out rural trump supporting republicans if he wants to win. Hes not going to do that if he blocks Donald Trumps vote for the Supreme Court. Listen, while were talking about raw political power lets be clear, a lot of these senators are in states where among republican primary and election voters, donald trump remains a very popular political figure and the Supreme Court remains a very Important Institution to republican voters. I want to bring up one point from our poll this morning. 50 of those polled said the next president should choose Supreme Court justice. And 37 said it should be donald trump. So i think that the public sentiment, at least on a nationwide basis is quite clear. But among individual senators, i dont anticipate mitt romney im just guessing now, we spoke to him last night he said hes going to talk to his colleagues at lunch today and come out of there and give his point of view, we expect he will. But i anticipate he might even line up with the president here. So just kind of this is falling exactly where we thought it would. And it looks like Mitch Mcconnell is going to go when he has the votes. If he has the votes now, hes going to go now. You know, peter baker, first of all, im really excited about your upcoming book on james baker, always one of the most fascinating characters, following him. And i just cant wait to talk about that when the book is released. But lets talk about cory gardner for a second. I think hes a great case study. Yes, maybe this energizes the base in rural colorado a little bit more. But it also it goes it damages him in the exact place where republicans need to pick up votes the most, and that is in the suburbs. For him the suburbs of denver, of women across this state, of more highly educated people who poll being against this, and once again, donald trump, has selected you know, hes put himself in a position where, you know, 35, 36 of americans support his position, and the majority are against his position. I just dont see how this helps Susan Collins or cory gardner in the end. Youre right. It may be that both of those seats are already lost, would have been lost before this, but cory gardner, who i think is around 46 years old, he has a future still even if he loses, theres a future for him in politics. Say for the sake of argument he faces a possible defeat regardless of what happens with the Supreme Court in about 45 days. He should be looking ahead, i presume, to what happens afterwards. What he sees i imagine is a party that wouldnt forgive a republican senator for blocking the installation of another Supreme Court justice that could cement a majority Going Forward years. Probably not a healthy thing for a republican who has a desire to have a future in the party to do. Had there been six, seven eight republicans who said no this is a step too far, wait until after the election, he might have been among them. Was he going to be the fourth person, the key person in other words to stop the president from Going Forward . Obviously not. I want to come back to one thing you said. You talked about Lindsey Graham, i think hes a fascinating case study here, youre right about the terms you said about him in terms of his consistency from 2016. When he says kavanaugh changed everything isnt just that the democrats were mean to kavanaugh, what he means is kavanaugh and his support for kavanaugh, the staunch, unyielding support for kavanaugh made him a hero among conservatives. Ive heard him talk about that, that was one or two things that made him most stand out among his own republican constituents and thats, i think an experience that really stuck with him. The kavanaugh fight made him a hero and he has a similar fight this time around and hes on the same side, President Trumps side. Gene robinson, Lindsey Graham has done something that is extraordinary. That it takes so much hard years and years of hard work and dedication to be as bad of a politician as he has been to be tied in a senate race in South Carolina with six weeks to go. And again, all of these people im sorry, in sounds really cynical, but when Martha Mcsally decides to do this, she loses the suburbs of phoenix. She loses her race. When Susan Collins, if Susan Collins has to vote and decides to vote, she loses maine. Shes probably already lost maine. Thom tillis, again, will have defections in the suburbs and among women and young people, among all the people he needs to get back, hes lost them forever when he does this. And cory gardner, my god. How bad will it be for cory gardner i hate to be cynical about this, but it looks like for many of these people they are making the calculation that peter baker is saying, and its not about running in the future. Its like what do i do after i lose this year . Well, if i cross donald trump and Mitch Mcconnell, i cant be a lobbyist and make a lot of money. But if i vote for them, im still in good stead with the party, i have a future politically and i can get a job right after i leave office. Well, i think that has to be the calculation some of them are making. Because it doesnt make political sense to me. Lets be straight. Theyre going to do this, right . They have the power to do it. Mcconnell has the votes, as far as i can tell, lose only collins and murkowski. Like jake sherman, i kind of doubt hell even lose romney but that wouldnt matter anyhow. So theyre going to go ahead with this. You raise Lindsey Graham. At some point he has to look in the mirror and say, i must be doing something wrong nope. Because we are talking about South Carolina, i know South Carolina, and to be tied this late in an election cycle senate seat in South Carolina, you are definitely doing something wrong. You are not doing this right. You are not being good at politics. But he pushes ahead. Democrats have to look at this, i think, with cold and realistic eye. Its going to happen. And you should get mad but you should get even. And the way to get even is to win all of those races and to make Lindsey Graham and Martha Mcsally and Susan Collins and cory gardner and steve daines and maybe a few others, thom tillis, make them pay. Make them pay on november 3rd. You know, bring out those women suburban voters and everybody else who is outraged by the hypocri hypocrisy. The senate has a right to do this. The real crime happened in 2016 when they blocked Merrick Garland without even giving him a hearing. They used raw political power to do that and theyre doing it again. And it should make people mad and it should motivate people to not just win this election, but to dominate in this election. And to punish those senators who are so rabidly eating their words from 2016 and going back on their promises. 100 . And going ahead with this nomination. Theres a lot of debate on capitol hill and jake can speak to this as well, about when to hold the vote. If youre Mitch Mcconnell is it better to do it before the election, rush it in the next six weeks or wait until after the election so some of the senators dont have to take a vote that would cost them their reelection. Whats your sense to get it done . Before the election would be an accelerated pace, but not impossible, Mitch Mcconnell can do it. Whats your sense of how this may play out . I guess doing it before the election could be a motivational thing for Donald Trumps base. If you are in the Republican Party right now you have no other option than to be a trump base republican. Theres nowhere else to go. Thats what were seeing with the republicans falling in line. So you get people out to vote more on november 3rd if you get this accelerated, could you save a few waivering senators by not having to theyre going to have to say whats on their mind anyway, theyre going to come out one way or another, so even if they havent taken a vote, the constituents are going to know which way theyre going to vote, not much surprise about it. Im not sure theres a benefit to waiting until afterward. And then you have the issue of mark kelly in arizona, could that throw things one way or another, if he was seated in an accelerated way after november 3rd. I would have thought looking at the speed with which the president is moving naming his nomination, theyll try to get this done before the election. I dont see there is much down side trying to get this vote done by november 3rd. We heard Lindsey Graham say on tape, we want to confirm the nominee before the election. What is majority leader mcconnell thinking . Is he looking to protect some of those moderate members that joe was talking about or is he happy to get this vote done before the election . What katty said is 100 right, every republican is a base republican at this point and the ones who arent are probably going to lose anyway. I think that mcconnell will put a vote on the floor as soon as he realizes he has the votes after the judiciary remember this is a small point but the Senate Judiciary committee could vote the candidate down and it could still go to the floor, i dont anticipate thats going to happen but its possible. Listen, mark kelly, as catty said, thats a vote that trump and mcconnell would need to confirm this nominee almost certainly. I think that even after the in the lame duck would be cynical for the most cynical of the senators and i think before the election is almost guaranteed, unless theres some massive bombshell that we dont know about, which seems unlikely because every time i talk to the white house theyre sure to mention that Mitch Mcconnell is running this. And i want to take a point and wish my son ryder happy 3rd birthday. Happy birthday. How old is he . 3 today. And hes watching in my bed right now. Happy birthday, buddy so cute. Run in the room and see your daddy by the way, one thing we havent talked about is the massive amount of dollars that senate candidates, Democratic Senate candidates have raised over the past week. There is no doubt this is energizing the left for sure. Again, if youre a republican, a conservative and you were one of the 35 or 40 that have always been with donald trump youre still with donald trump. Yeah. And so but jonathan lemire, lets and ill ask you this, anybody else wants to jump in, let alex know. But just sort of war gaming this out, if youre Mitch Mcconnell and you take the vote before the election and ive heard conservatives say this, you then you know, donald trump is giving you three Supreme Court justices youre not going to probably get anymore, hes done his job. Like youve lost your motivation. If, for instance, you if if instead you decide to take the vote in the lame duck session and yes, Mitch Mcconnell is cynical enough to do anything. If if you take it in the lame duck session, before kelly is sworn in if if he wins, then you still have that motivation to get through the election. So it just i dont know that theyre making these calculations, but there is a massive election coming up in five, six weeks. And they could again, i still think theres a lot more downsides for republicans than upsides. So what are you hearing strategist republican strategists are saying is the best timing for this . The president made clear what he wants to do, joe. Though he allowed it could happen in a lame duck session he said at both rallies and on fox friends yesterday that he would like this to happen before the election. It seems thats where most republicans are coalescing. It would remove the incentive if the seat remains open until the first couple weeks of november, that removes that tactic. But someone told me yesterday they think this is about momentum, if they think they can have the hearings and the vote and just before election day have that justice confirmed, that that will be a victory. That will be seen as a victory by republicans and that will fire them up that they win. That will be the momentum going in. Rather than the incentive of the seat afterwards but rather coming off a victory. They often like to refer to 2018 and what an animating almost radicalizing moment that was for conservatives. The flaw of that plan is the democrats then proceeded after the kavanaugh hearings in 2018 to win and win big in the in terms of. So that would be the counter argument. From everything ive heard, they are looking to push it before election day, because they believe it can then propel them through election day. Again, it bears repeating, after cavanaugh, that fall, democrats won the largest vote total majority in the history of the republic. So that tells you how great of a political play that was. Peter baker, youll remember this. You know, for the first half of my life, republicans were cold warriors, more so than democrats. There were some cold warriors on the democratic side but every four years it was, do you want that left wing hippy to have his finger on the button . Do you want that radical left wing pacifist to have the finger on the button . And then the curtain fell the iron curtain fell in 89 and the soviet union collapsed Christmas Day in 1991 and we thought it was the end of history. We won, we proved ourselves. What happened . Bill clinton won in 1992. Because the issue was off the table. We never saw that coming. It was the end of history. The end of republican history of using the soviet union to get us, you know, elected every four years. Im wondering, are there any republicans concerned about taking this issue every bit as big to conservatives now as the cold war was back then, taking this issue off the table before the election . Thats a great question, there are republican strategists as jonathan was talking about who would prefer to have a nominee announced before the elections, start the hearings but not vote until afterwards so you have a reward for voters if you want amy barrett to be on the court, you have to vote in november. But thats not currently influencing the white house. Donald trump is not a long term thinker but other republicans may say, you might lose the white house, the senate, you might lose them anyway, but the longterm play is for control of the Supreme Court, cementing a sixth republican appointee on that court, a fifth reliable conservative, if you dont trust chief Justice Roberts to always vote for you. Thats not the way donald trump thinks, he doesnt think long term, he doesnt think usually past the next few minutes so republicans thinking through whats the most important benefit out of this, that Supreme Court looms very large, no question about it. All right. Peter baker and jake sherman thank you both very much. And happy birthday to ryder. Still ahead on morning joe its National Voter registration day and the next guest is on the front lines of that effort. St Stacey Abrams joins us the conversation straight ahead. 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You dont have time for a system that is stacked against you. You need to have individuals in office that are going to push the entire country forward. Thats what joe and kamala have is that plan for the future. Theyre willing to Push Congress and say we can get there. Cash bail reform we need reform there. Theres a lot of people in the Justice System that are not criminals. How many people are in jail because they couldnt afford the 400 court fee. Its just trying to get a job is going to give you a better standing in associate whsociety come out. Joe and kamala understand. Theyre the candidates that lead us to that future. That was a new ad from joe bidens president ial campaign. The democratic nominee announced plans yesterday to expand advertising in georgia and iowa as part of a push to widen his media footprint in two critical states that could provide a path to victory on election day. In georgia, the Campaign Launched new ads focussing on the former Vice President s criminal Justice Reform policies. And joining us now, stay scey abrams the founder of fair fight action to promote Fair Elections across the country. Shes also the producer of her new documentary on Voting Rights called all in the fight for democracy. And today, by the way, is National Voter registration day. So lets start there. A lot of people are concerned about the elections, are they going to be carried out fairly. What can people do to feel comfortable about voting and what should they do right now to get involved . Well, first of all, dont panic. Were going to continue to hear disturbing news as the run up to the election occurs. And the most important thing to remember is that our power lies in casting those ballots and not being distracted by the chaos or the tragedies and that means make sure that you first have a plan to vote. If you go to all in for voting dot com we give you the information you need, whether you are an average citizen, a student, in the military, a returning citizen, you can make a plan to vote and make that plan to vote early. Because if we have a plan we are not going to get distracted by the chaos, you can vote by mail if you need to. If that doesnt work in your state, you can vote early. If that doesnt work, you can know where to go on election day. If we have a plan to vote were not going to get distracted and be dissuaded from making the change we need to make headed into 2021. Are you concerned at all that President Trump may do something to try and sort of scorch the earth around the elections in some way or another, and are you hearing that concern from others . Of course hes going to do something. Thats his m. O. His response to challenge is to create chaos, try to bully people. Hes going to try to cheat, but the antidote is not to lean into his crazy. The antidote is to hold onto our power as voters. Thats why today is National Voter registration day, the point of entry. Make sure youre registered. If you think you are, check your registration, go to all in for voting dot com or vote. Org and you can check your registration and make your plan. We have to stop playing by Donald Trumps strange rules of engagement. We know who he is but we have to remember who we are. We are an american democracy, a republican that uses Democratic Values to make our choices and those values say your voice counts and your vote counts. You may have seen a new poll just this morning from the agac that shows the race for president in the state of georgia statistically tied. Also that senate race statistically tied as well. So the last couple of cycles, as you know well, 2018 had good turnout for an off year election. 2016 had historic turn out in the state of georgia. How motivated are the people of the state of georgia this time around and what are you telling Vice President biden about what he needs to do to win there . We are excited about the significant investment made in georgia and for a president ial campaign this is the first time in recent memory. We have to remember that president obama lost georgia by eight points. Hillary clinton lost by five points. I came within 1. 4 of winning the governors race despite voter suppression. And we had record turnout, the highest turnout for any democrat in the history of georgia and that was before 750,000 additional voters signed up to vote in the state of georgia, 45 of whom are under the age of 30, 49 of whom are people of color. And one of the takeaways from the poll is that joe biden is winning 31 of white voter. We hit the highest margin of white voter turnout in our election and hes exceeded our victory. So that means were on a path to adding a seat to congress and flipping the house in the state of georgia. 47, 47 that new number in the president ial race. I want to ask about the Supreme Court vacancy left by the passing of Ruth Bader Ginsburg on friday night. What is your view of how democrats should approach this . What can they do exactly . Its within the president s Constitutional Authority, of course, to nominate someone and within Mitch Mcconnells authority to get a vote on the table. Looks like he has the votes. So what recourse do you think democrats have here . Democrats have to do what is required by the constitution. Advise. And that means Holding Accountable any nominee put forward thats going to undermine the values of reproductive choice, the right to vote, the right to work not for less but to have labor rights. We need Supreme Court justices who actually see all of us and invest in all of us and uphold the laws to protect all of us. Democrats are going to have that responsibility regardless of when this vote is held and we are going to have to make certain as we go through the process we dont allow it to distract us from the reality this is one branch of government. If we can take the white house, the senate, we can set the table bypassing laws to actually settle some of these issues, hr4, the Voting Rights advancement acts, the right to reproductive choice for all americans. There are legislative solutions to many of the challenges. We cannot be distracted by one seat, although it was held by an extraordinary woman, that we forget we have three branchs of government we have to focus on in 2020. Gene robinson is here with a question for you. Good morning. Good to talk to you. On National Voter registration day, is there a group a Demographic Group whos under represented in the registration rolls who youre particularly working on . Africanamerican men or women . Hispanic men or women . Is there any group you really want to focus on . I know in georgia theres a deep focus on africanamerican men because we know thats a group whose voices have not been heard frequently. Across the country we have to meet people where they are, in arizona we need to focus on making certain that latinos have access to the right to vote. If youre in texas, wisconsin, our responsibility as politicians is to make certain that the communities who are underserved understand that we see them and want them to be engaged. Thats whats so exciting about the Biden Campaign. They are meeting each state where they are. They take no one for granted. This campaign is doing the work of investing in those communities. What we did in 2018 we didnt have a select group that we wanted to go after. We centered communities of color but reached out to everyone because you only win elections when you build a coalition of the willing. That means people willing to believe that you can make life better. You cant pick your voters you have to let your voters know who you are so they can pick you. I spoke to a democratic strategist in North Carolina last week who was suggesting she felt joe biden needed more visibility in the state. I wonder what you would like joe biden to be doing now, given that donald trump has gone back to rallies every day, and in swing states, would you like the Biden Campaign to be more visible, come to georgia, hold rallies . How much more could they be doing . Should they be doing . I want the Biden Campaign to do what theyre doing now, which is believing in the value of human life and not putting people at risk simply for the selfcongratulations of a rally. Whats happening across the country and were seeing it reflected in the poll numbers in every battleground state. Biden is doing well because people believe he will help save our lives, he takes seriously the 200,000 americans who have perished due to the incompetence of donald trump and his refusal to acknowledge the legitimacy of the challenges we face. We need someone for president who is competent, has the moral vision and the plan to service all. Thats what were seeing. So im less concerned about the comparative between a biden or Trump Campaign. Because trump is speaking to the people who always supported him and biden is building a new coalition that lead to victory in november. Stacey abrams thank you very much. Joining us now democratic senator jon tester of arizona, author of the new book, grounded. Why dont we start right there. For many reasons, especially given the president ial election, whats the message of your book, senator . Well, i think the democrats lineup much better with the values of Rural America than republicans do. If you look at the record of fighting for health care and Public Education and getting dark money out of campaigns and sticking up for medicare and Social Security that message needs to get out more in Rural America. Those are things that Rural America appreciates and that democrats stand for. So its a matter of showing up and making our case. And i think if were able to do that, i think well do much better in rural areas. Question for you before i play something. How is your state faring with the coronavirus . Especially in terms of the economy . Are there businesses that are struggling . I think anybody in the Hospitality Business still continues to struggle and will for a while. Talking about restaurants and bars and micro breweries and hotels, motels, those kind of folks. Theyre struggling very badly. I mean, theyre not in good shape at all, for obvious reasons. I think weve seen the incidents of infections go up in the state and certainly the incidents of death go up in the state. We are socially distanced because were such a rural state with few people and big land mass, but nonetheless, i think we need to, once again, trust science, socially distance as much as we can when were out in areas and wear masks. And i think it would go a long, long way to put an end to this. I want to play for you larry kudlow yesterday talking about the economy and the coronavirus. Take a listen. Whatever pessimism comes you have the, you know, we have to fill up the daily news cycle, i understand that. The reality is, we are recovering thankfully, prayerfully as more businesses reopen. As the virus is increasingly contained and the fatality rates have stayed very low. We are in a vshaped recovery. Im not sure that this vshaped recovery has ever depended on the second socalled stimulus package i made that case before. In terms of the fundamentals of the economy having gone through bloody hell, theres still a lot of hardship out there, the battle is not over, i get that. But we are moving in the right direction, we have a strong vshaped recovery. I think its going to outperform almost everybodys expectations. Senator tester, does that sound like a realistic assessment of pretty much everything . Its Wishful Thinking. This has been the problem from the beginning. If the president would have been on top of the coronavirus, our economy would be in better shape today but hes kind of let it go and denied its any big deal and thats a problem for the economy. I wish larry kudlow was right. The truth is, there are some sectors doing okay. But theres a lot of sectors, a lot of sectors that arent and a lot of businesses that arent going to see the other side pan. And so and a lot of working families that are hurting big time. And so i think that larry kudlow, its Wishful Thinking on his part. The truth is this pandemic continues to have its impacts, and i think were fooling ourselves if we dont think its going to continue for a while. I wish i was wrong. But the truth is, look at the past. It will dictate the future. Until we get a vaccine thats well distributed in this country, i think were going to face tough economic times. Senator tester, its willie geist. Good to see you. I want to ask you about the Supreme Court vacancy sitting in front of you. Mitch mcconnell is ready to move full speed ahead with a nomination and a vote. Lindsey graham said yesterday he wants to get the nominee confirmed before election day. Youve come out and said the voters ought to have a say in this. Lease wait and see what happens in the election. If you look at the votes, the way cory gardner came out yet, chuck grassley, mitt romney well hear from later today. Isnt it true republicans are already where they need to be to move this nominee forward . Boy, i tell you, i hope not. I hope we can influence some of them. There are some good people on the other side of the aisle. I know theyre being threatened with primaries and all sorts of stuff. But the truth is, is that theres good people. We need to appeal to their honesty and ethical nature of this. There cant be two sets of rules here, one for republicans and one for democrats. Mitch changed the rules in 2016. We ought to live by them. The truth is, this is going to have some major impacts, willie, on our ability to move and do business Going Forward. If you cannot trust the people youre working with, thats a big problem in politics. A big problem in business, too, by the way. Thats why i probably never cut a business a business deal with these guys being a farmer. Im not sure id sell any of them any wheat. Theyd tell you one thing and short you on the other side. Weve got to get five folks to say, hey, look, the right thing to do here is do this after the election. Youve got two so far, Susan Collins and lisa murkowski. Do you think there are others out there with gardner and grassley and perhaps mitt romney off the board today. Where do you see other movement . I have to believe there are other people out there because thats key to insert common sense into this equation and some stability. And the truth is, were, what, 42 days out from an election and Mitch Mcconnell wants to ram this through. Folks in the Republican Caucus say, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is not the way you properly vet somebody for a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court. And like i said, ive worked with people on the other side of the aisle. There are good people over there. We just need to have them get some backbone and stand up. Some democrats have said, okay, republicans, if you want to play rough, well play rough. If you want get this nominee through and joe biden wins the president ial election, if democrats take control of the senate, we will expand the court. Do you think thats a good idea . I dont think we should be threatening anything at this point in time. I think we should be talking about the impact this person could have on the Supreme Court. Stacey abrams talked about some of the issue, but health care, dark money in politics, voter rights. I mean, just about every issue that congress deals with, the Supreme Court deals with, so we need to talk about how important this person is and making sure we get the right person on the court. And thats how i would approach it. Senator, katty kay has a question for you. Katty . Senator, i want to follow up on those good people youre speaking to on the other side. I spoke to senator ben cardin last night. He said the exact same thing to me. We have a list of people who havent made up their minds yet but neither you nor he or coming up with names of people who might change their mind, who might say, we wouldnt through the nomination. Who are the people that you think could still decide that theyre not going to push this nomination through before the election or even possibly in the lame duck session . I just dont see them. I will tell you that i think even the people who have said theyre going to do this and fall in line with Mitch Mcconnell, i think we approach everybody and approach them with an open mind and try to get them to see the importance of this Supreme Court nomination, the importance of vetting them properly and moving forward. I wouldnt take anybody off with maybe the exception of Mitch Mcconnell. And visit with them all and try to get them to come over. I dont have a list of five or ten people that im targeting. Im going to visit with folks as much as i can moving forward. Now, ill probably get shut down a few times. Like i said, all we need is five. If we can get five people to understand the importance of this, understand the role the United States senate should be playing and understand there are senators to these states that are not puppets for Mitch Mcconnell, i think theres a chance to get some folks to come along. The other problem is, and we saw this with measurrick garland, theres a lot of pressure put on these folks by leadership and they have to be able to buck this pressure and say, this is for the good of the country, not the good of the party. Were here to move the country forward, not an individual party. The new book is grounded senator lessons on winning back Rural America. Senator jon tester, always good to see you. Thanks so much for being on this morning. My pleasure. Thank you, guys. Up next, politicized military, a mishandled pandemic and a divided country. Former National Security adviser h. R. Mcmaster has some thoughts on it all and he joins us ahead. And all morning weve been showing you some of the people who the New York Times has featured in a powerful new series entitled those weve lost from the coronavirus. Among them, reverend vicky gibbs, a faster at a houston church. In one of her last sermons, reverend gibbs tied together many themes affecting america, including police brutality, immigration policy, refusal to wear masks, slavery, the destruction of native americans and capitalism. Her advice seek and give forgiveness and build bridges of reconciliation. She gave the sermon to an empty 900seat church as the pandemic forced the church to hold virtual services. Reverend gibbs was beloved by her diverse congregation. She is survived by her wife and two children. This is decision tech. Find a stock based on your interests or whats trending. Get realtime insights in your customized view of the market. Its smarter Trading Technology for smarter trading decisions. Fidelity. Its official National Coffee day is now National Dunkin day celebrate with a free medium hot or iced coffee with any purchase on september 29th. To soccer practices. And new adventures. You hope the more you give the less theyll miss. But even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past. They may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. Lets help protect them together. Because missing menb vaccination could mean missing out on a whole lot more. Ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination. From cincinnati, the queen city, i know it well, and from dayton to toledo, we inherit the legacy of generations of ohio patriots like neil armstrong, annie oakley, William Mckinley and the amazing ulysses s. Grant. Thats a good one. Its tuesday, september 22nd. Along with joe, willie and me we have reporter for the Washington Post, jonathan lemire, and kasie hunt, host of way too early. You know what i do every saturday morning when i wake up. Uhoh. Of course you know. Weve talked about it for a long time. I get my weekends started. The way i do that on saturday mornings, i get my bible out and i start annotating it, get the shotgun out, you got to clean it, right . So im clean, the shotgun, and i usually watch two or three john wayne movies. How the west was won, great one. A lot of great, great john wayne movies. This saturday i decided to do the most southern thing possible and watch premier league football. I did it. This is a huge windup, by the way. I did it we have a lot to cover. By watching it on peacock. Thats what they do. They trap you. I do like peacock. They trapped me, so i had to download peacock. And when i did, and this is so obvious to you and everybody else, i know, but i rediscovered 30 rock. And ive got to say, its like the office, its better the second and the third and the fourth time you watch these shows. I watched them all, of course, the first time through. We were all huge fans. But, you know, jack donaghy, lemire and i talked about it over the weekend, really one of the great tv characters of all time, but i think what is so stunning is when you pick up the second, third, fourth time you watch these shows over a decade is what we already knew, of course, tina fey is a great writer, but watching it again, i mean, its just every line. She is such an extraordinary writer and packed so much into that show. Its just remarkable. It was a big windup, but it was worth it. I wasnt quite sure where you were going, but it was worth it. Youre right. One of the Silver Linings of this terrible time, weve had some time with our family and your kids become a certain age like mine have, and you can go back and watch these shows like the office, the simpsons and 30 rock and theres a joke every moment, which is an incredible thing to pull off and rarely do they fall flat. Jack donaghy is one of the best characters in the history of tv, liz lemon, tracy george. That show is so good. My daughter just turned 13,my son is 11 and they get it. Theyre plugged into the jokes and they love it. Yes, im with you on that. By the way, peacock, full of great things to go back to and watch like the office and 30 rock. Exactly. Lemire, you and i were talking about 30 rock, and we were sending quotes and clips back and forth to each other all weekend because we have nothing else to do. Lets face it. Theres nothing going on in the world. In is sort of a down time. Yeah, 30 rock and you agreed that that character alec baldwins character is just extraordinary. Its a restful, quiet time, joe, no news to keep track of, certainly no baseball news to Pay Attention to. I hope every time we mention peacock we can get a little ding. Jack donaghy, as we said, one of the singular Great Television characters and following his example after 6 00 every evening, i switch into my tuxedo. There you go. Exactly. Mika, speaking of baseball, im not good at math, but from my calculations really quick, joe. The red sox are about two wins away from locking down great. A playoff berth. Fantastic. Something like that. Or maybe its the worst team in baseball. Im not sure. Let me check it out. You go into that computer box there and figure it out. Were going to go to the Campaign Rally last night in ohio. President trump told supporters that the coronavirus affects, quote, virtually nobody. We now know the disease, we didnt know it. Now we know it. It affects elderly people. Elderly people with heart problems and other problems, if they have other problems, thats what it really affects. Thats it. In states, thousands of people, nobody young, below the age of 18, nobody. They have a strong immune system. Who knows. Take your hat off to the young because they have a hell of an immune system. But it affects virtually nobody. Its an amazing thing. Back in march this is what the president acknowledged to bob woodward about young people and the virus. Now its turning out its not just old people, bob, but just today and yesterday some startling facts came out. Its not just old yeah, yeah. Exactly. Old people. Willie, we have so much to talk about what went on at this event. Superspreader event. It really does get worse the more you read it. 200,000 people dead. Donald trump says it doesnt affect the young. Which, again, hes still lying to people at superspreader events that are going to be looked back upon a generation from now hes on stage and theyre clustered together. They spread the virus and potentially kill each other. He has no contact with them. Sorry, joe, go on. Just pointing out the obvious. While they force people to wear masks behind donald trump, whos telling everybody clustered together. Well show you a clip in a second where a Lieutenant Governor is booed for asking people to wear masks. Booed. This is going to be looked back upon, it really is going to be looked back upon, i think, the way we look back at the salem witch trials, where just mass insanity takes over a group of people and and kills many of them. And kills a lot of them. And they ignore they choose superstition over science. They choose well, they choose basically death over life look at this clip. Lieutenant governor of ohio, who was booed for suggesting the audience wear masks. Remember, masks can keep you from getting the virus. And Donald Trumps own government has said its more effective, actually, than even a vaccine. Watch this. But if you go into a Grocery Store where youve got to wear one, all right hang on, hang on. Just listen up. Just listen up. All right i get it but if somebody tells you to take it off, you can at least say youre trying to save the country by wearing one of president Donald Trumps masks, okay . All right. So, willie, the stupidity, actually, that is exhibited there, and ill say it oh, my god. The people in the crowd have heard their own president say on tape privately that this spreads through the air. Theyve heard Donald Trumps own government say repeatedly to wear a mask, that it not only saves lives. Get this, idiots that are in the audience booing, wearing a mask, get this, it saves jobs. If you dont give a damn about peoples lives, how about giving a ddamn about your job or your neighbors job or your childrens job or anybodys job. This economy well talk about this later. This economy is not getting better. Over the past several weeks, ive heard one business person from another throughout our economic infrastructure telling me that 2021 is going to be terrible. Doesnt matter who gets elected. Its going to be terrible because this pandemics not going away for a while. Even when we have a vaccine, that only protects 50 of us, but, of course, people arent taking the vaccine when they get it based on new polling. Why . Because donald trump is lying about everything. And we didnt have to be here. We didnt have to be here, by the way. 200,000 people didnt have to die. We cant say today how many deaths donald trump is responsible for and how many deaths the Republican Senate is responsible for for not standing up to donald trump. Donald trump saying virtually nobody gets this, that would be news to the world war ii heroes, men and women from the greatest generation news to vietnam vets who died, the 200,000 people who died, that virtual nobody gets this and nobody young gets this when, again, he admitted all this to bob woodward six months ago. Three months ago. One month ago. And the people in the audience, the people still voting for donald trump, despite the fact hes still lying to them, it really is it is beyond rationalizing. You just you cant even rationalize it. It is a cult at this point. Postwoodward, we know that everything donald trump is saying fits under this umbrella of, i always wanted to play it down. He gave up the game when he went on the record and on tape with bob woodward and explained in detail we can play the tape again about how he knows this is airborne, how he knows its deadly, he called it a killer, he called it the plague, he knows, he knows, he knows, yet goes on a stage in ohio last night and says its affected virtually nobody there. Hes talking about young people. The American Academy of pediatrics say 500,000 children have contracted coronavirus. As for the mask, he has created this culture. Theres no getting around it. Theres no getting around the erratic actions of the cdc. Why the agency is reversing itself on covid guidelines again. For the third time since may. A note that joes new book saving freedom truman, the fight for western civilization comes out on october 8th. You can preorder the book right now. Er the book right now. Its official National Coffee day is now National Dunkin day celebrate with a free medium hot or iced coffee with any purchase on september 29th. With an purhere . Nah. Here . Nope. Here. When the middle of nowhere. Is somewhere. The allnew chevy trailblazer. 20 associate cart pusher. Urly the different positions ive had taught me how to be there for others. I started out as a cashier. I mean, the skys the limit with walmart. Its all up to you. No matter where you live, where you live has never mattered more. For over 100 years, realtors® have brought local knowledge and deep expertise to helping people find new places to dream and thrive. The next great place youll call home. So, whether youre upsizing downsizing or just ready to make a change. Look for the r. Fraudsters, theyre out to get your medicare number so they can bill fake claims in your good name. Dont give them that chance. Just calling to confirm your medicare number. Do you have your card available . For example, if the caller says theyre from medicare, watch out. Its probably a scam. Dont give out your card number. And always check your claims statements for errors. Report fraudulent charges to 1800medicare. Guard your card. Learn more at medicare. Gov fraud. The cdc has removed its previous language that coronavirus can spread through the air. On friday the agency updated its website and said the virus can transmit beyond six feet and that indoor ventilation was vital to prevent infection. Before then the cdc noted that covid19 spread primarily between people through close contact and droplets produced by those infected. Yesterday a cdc official confirmed to the Washington Post that the agencys website was scrubbed of that update on airborne spread saying, unfortunately, an earlier draft revision went up without any technical review. Now the website says, the cdc is updati updating language through airborne. It continues, the cdc gets something on its website, it puts it down because it doesnt match what the president is saying. The politicalization of these organizations continues. The centers for Disease Control and prevention are supposed to be the world standard for this. The entire world for the past several decades has looked to the cdc for guidance to lead the way. And now you have other groups of doctors forming their own councils. One medical association said they were going to form their own group to try these recommendations and decisions because theyre concerned about the quality of the cdcs information. And there is a long list of examples of places where this the Trump Administration has sewn doubt about its own government and the information coming out of its own government. This one rises to the level of lives saved and lost. And what is the calculation behind this . If you say it doesnt spread through the air, perhaps its easier to justify open Indoor Dining or sending kids back to school, even if their school hasnt been retrofitted with the kind of hvac to move the air through the building. I think all of us as we have connected anecdotal information and talked to friends and family, and struggled what to do based on cdc guidance has figured out being indoors in a closed, unventilated space is not the place to be. This is something you can figure out from other organizations providing this type of information. So i think its going to be a real challenge, no matter who wins the election. Rebuilding trust is something well be grappling with for years if not decades to come. Jonathan lemire, this is really is incredible. And so much is thrown at us every day, at americans, and but this is a reality. And even members of Donald Trumps own administration have said this, that if you wear a maveng, you cut the virus the risk of the virus spreading by 80 . The virus would go down 80 . If all americans wore masks, then our numbers would have plummeted a long time ago and we would get through this fall okay and businesses would open up. Donald trump knows that. The cdc has said that. Dr. Fauci has said that. The World Health Organization has said that. You look at numbers in japan, a country thats really not slowed down that much where almost everybody is wearing masks. Their rate of infection throughout the year has been so much lower than ours. Why . Better doctors . No. Better hospitals . No. Better Research Centers . No. More money . No. They wore masks, its that simple. And President Trump has indoctrinated people booing a Lieutenant Governor that comes occupy stage because he wants to save peoples lives and he wants ohioans to get back to work and hes so indoctrinated these people that they boo when a guy gives them something simple that they can do to save lives and get the economy kick started again. And you look at donald trump, that selfish, angry man, who doesnt care whether you live or die, i think i can say that. He does not care. You look at the masks on the people behind him because they are ordered, they are forced, they are compelled to wear masks if theyre behind donald trump and yet people in front of donald trump arent wearing them. Im just curious. You look at all the pictures of donald trump speaking, im wondering, are the Constitutional Rights why did Donald Trumps Staff Members strip away the Constitutional Rights of everybody sitting behind donald trump . Why do they infringe on their most basic freedoms, the freedoms for which washington crossed the delaware river, the freedom for which grant fought during the civil war, the freedoms for which american soldiers went to vietnam and sacrificed so much, the freedom for which our soldiers and sailors and airmen and marines for 230 years have fought for the freedom for you not to wear a mask. Because thats what donald trump is saying. Jonathan lemire, its all nonsense. Its all dangerous, dangerous superstition. And donald trump would rather people die than stop lying, stop carrying through on the lie that hes been telling the American People since this spring. Even though privately he admits, he knows this is bad and its airborne. Well, first of all, joe, apologies for borrowing Mike Barnicles audio this morning. Yes. Youre right. From the early days of this pandemic, the president decided to politicize masks. Once there was a Scientific Consensus that masks were helpful. It stopped the spread of the virus. He decided this could be a cultural issue. In part because, you remember, those liberate michigan and liberate rallies we saw early on, those people were not wearing masks. They got oversized coverage on places like fox news. The president watched that, identified with that and also it was vanity. He didnt want to be seen with a mask and he thought it would be sending out the wrong message, that he was too focused on the health aspect rather than the economic, missing the point that if americans had worn masks from the beginning, the economy would be doing much better. Last week, youll recall, the cdc director testified and said a mask, in his estimation, would, more effective than a vaccine in terms of stopping the spread of the virus. Say that again. The cdc director last week testified before congress and said that in his estimation, wearing a mask was more effective than a vaccine in terms of preventing the spread of the virus and protecting himself and others. And i asked the president in the White House Briefing room on that and said, well, why have you you have poured a lot of energy into developing a vaccine, a lot of resources. Why have not done something similar in terms of promoting mask wearing . Why have you not encouraged white house staff to wear them to set an example . He said he didnt need to wear a mask and hes always tested and therefore, hes not at risk of contracting or spreading the virus. I pressed him and said, you could be sending a message to the American Public. He didnt answer. He moved on. Thats why we see people behind him in rallies asked to wear a mask. Even at indoor rallies like last week in both arizona and nevada. Those indoors, no one wores masks. Joe, as a final point, you played the clip about the Lieutenant Governor of ohio encouraging those to wear masks. Do you know what spreads the virus really easily . Booing at loud volume while not wearing a mask. So, thats what was happening right then in that moment. Coming up, battlegrounds. Former National Security adviser h. R. Mcmaster on what he calls the fight to defend the free world. Why he says its not the book most people wanted him to right. Morning joe is back in a moment. Is back in a moment from prom dresses. To soccer practices. And new adventures. You hope the more you give the less theyll miss. But even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past. They may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. Lets help protect them together. Because missing menb vaccination could mean missing out on a whole lot more. Ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination. Now you can trade stocks and etfs for any amount you choose instead of buying by the share. All with no commissions. Stocks by the slice from fidelity. Get your slice today. I try so hard, i cant rise above it dont know what it is get a dozen double crunch shrimp for one dollar with any steak entree. Only at applebees. I feel like werentree. Forglet me check. Ing. Xfinity home gives you peace of mind from anywhere with professionally monitored Home Security built around you. No, i think were good. Good. So when youre away, you dont have to worry. The tent. We forgot. The tent. Except about that. Xfinity home. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Hey look, i found the tent get xfinity home with no Term Contract required. Click or call today. More dangerous and corrupt president than trump. Hes harming our basic values, giving rise to hate, and hes selling out america to big corporations. Im working to protect immigrants, women, communities of color, and lgbtq people. And im making corporations like pg e and Insurance Companies play by our rules. We need experienced leadership to wipe away trumps stain on america for good. President donald trump yesterday dodged a white house reporters question on the poisoning of russian president Vladimir Putin critic Alexei Navalny. Who do you think poisoned Alexei Navalny in russia . Well talk about that at another time. Navalny was poisoned on a flight from siberia in late august and has been recovering in a german hospital. While the president continues to avoid the question, a Statement Released earlier this month by the g7 Foreign Ministers of canada, france, germany, italy, japan, the United Kingdom and the United States, says in part, we the g7 Foreign Ministers call on russia to urgently and fully establish transparency on who is responsible for this abhorrent poisoning attack. And adds, quote, we will continue to monitor closely how russia responds to International Calls for an explanation of the hideous poisoning of mr. Navalny. And donald trump cant even criticize Vladimir Putin. On his tippy toes. Lets bring in retired threestar Lieutenant General h. R. Mcmaster, National Security adviser for President Trump from 2017 to 2018. Hes out with a book battlegrounds the fight to defend the free world. General, thank you, first of all, for your service to this nation both in and out of uniform. Also thank you for writing this book. Before we go to the specifics of the book, i would love for you to give us what insight you can on whats disturbed a lot of us. Obviously disturbed dan coates when he was at dni, where we see the president afraid to talk about navalny. We see the president afraid to talk about bounties on Young Americans head. We see the president in helsinki defending kn defendi defending Vladimir Putin over the Intel Community, and we see him saying, we kill a lot of people, too, defending Vladimir Putin again and again. Can you help us understand better why the president is so fearful of crossing Vladimir Putin . Thanks, joe. Thanks, mika. Its great to be with you. This is an important question. How we perceive russia. What i write about in battlegrounds our tendency to strategic narcissism to define the world the way we would like it to be and base our strategies and policies on really Wishful Thinking and ultimately selfdelusion. What i call for in the book is strategic empathy, to pay more attention to the emotions and aspirations that drive the other. In this case, Vladimir Putin. And i think whats important for all americans to know is, Vladimir Putin will never be our friend. He is never going to change this kind of behavior. What Vladimir Putin wants to do, he wants to drag us down and pit us against each other, and what hes conducting is a sustained campaign of political subversion against the United States, against europe and our on other allies. The sooner we recognize that, i mean, the more effective were going to be. I think i cant explain President Trumps, you know, not taking that question, for example. Its really i cant think of any other plausible alternative to the kremlin poisoning navalny, like they attempted to do with sergei and his daughter in april of 2018. We have to continue to impose costs on russia beyond those that maybe Vladimir Putin factors in when he makes these kind of decisions. In the book, though, i place the Trump Administrations approach to russia, as you alluded to, joe, in context of several administrations. Remember george w. Bush looked into Vladimir Putins soul and then you had, of course, you had president obama leaning over to m meddevev and saying we can Work Together and clinton with s savarov. Lets know putin is going to be hostile and we have to deter not only open conflict with russia but what i call russias newgeneration warfare, which is russias attempt to accomplish objectives below those that might elicit a military response from the United States and nato. Its so important, general, you lay out in perspective the fact that the United States time and again in the 21st century has underestimated Vladimir Putins designs on, certainly not World Domination like the chinese, but at least wanting to shake things up. At least having a pretense of cobbling back together the old soviet empire. Before we move on, let me try this one more time. You said you werent exactly sure why donald trump responded the way he did to the poisoning. Im curious, any insight you can give us at all on why he would behave the way he did in helsinki, deferring to Vladimir Putin instead of his own Intel Community, why he wont speak out against putting bounties on the heads of Young Americans when his own Intel Community was pushing him to do so as early as may . Joe, you know, i was gone at that point. You know, i felt it was my duty when i was there to present the president with the better analysis across all departments and agencies. What i found is, you know, when presented with that analysis, you know, he made good decisions on russia. You might recall that in that first year of his presidency he imposed a tremendous number of sanctions on putin and his criminalized patronage network. But, general, you understand the question, though, that im asking you. Obviously this yeah, joe, i cant i cant can you make any sense of it . No, it doesnt make sense, joe. I think really what we have to do is see russian behavior for what it is. As you alluded to, right, russia is not strong. Ill tell you, putin has a lot of problems these days, right . Hes coping with covid19 and what was an ineffective response to it, the collapse of oil prices, he has a weak economy. The economy is about the size of texas or italy. So, putin knows he cant compete with us on our own terms except maybe with nuclear weapons, which is a scary prospect, but what hes trying to do is drag us down. Thats really the approach hes taking because he hopes if he breaks europe apart, if he pits communities against each other, within European Countries and pits European Countries against each other, collapses the eu, tries to pull nato apart by pulling turkey in or cultivating relationships with particular countries within nato, he wants to be the last man standing. As all of us are consumed with these internal conflicts and lack of confidence in our democratic principles and institutions and processes. You know, general, one of the things that we try to repeat on this show, i try to repeat on this show, is that two things can be true at one time. I say that as a precursor of what im going to ask you about china. Obviously, ive been a china hawk. I was back in congress. Constantly led the fight against extending mf to china, con stanley talked about the human rights abuses. So, we have that on one side. China is a threat to us militarily, theyre a threat to us economically. As you know very well, we also have to share the stage with china over the next 40, 50 years. This is a bipolar world again. So, how do we recognize our differences with china while moving forward and figuring out how to deal with a country thats going to be an indispensable country on environmental issues, on economic issues, on interNational Security issues . I think the first thing to recognize is, hey, theyre not going to be a partner. So, you know, we hoped for it for so long. I think the biggest shift the administration put into place, and understanding that china is a rival and we need to compete. That competition doesnt need to lead to confrontation, but i think our passivity, based on the flawed assumption that, hey, china after theyve been welcomed into the international community, theyre going to play by the rules, theyre going to liberalize their economy and as they prosper, theyll liberalize their form of government, we have to realize, thats not true. Theyre motivated mainly by fear of losing control, and their aspiration to achieve national rejuvenation. And that fear, that fear of losing the Chinese Communist partys exclusive grip on power is driving this establishment of orwellian, technologically established police state where theyre extinguishing human freedom across the mainland and now trying to do it in hong kong and theyre becoming more and more aggressive internationally as well. This is often framed joe, and i think this is really fortunate because its framed as like a u. S. china problem. Its because, you know, hey, the Trump Administration is so mean. Actually, you know, look at what chinas doing. Look at what they did with covid, suppressi suppressing th it, the wolf warrior diplomacy, adding insult to injury in that connections. The bludgeoning of indian soldiers, and the repression of freedom in hong kong. What could be the largest land grab in the south china sea, the threats to taiwan, the huge, massive Cyber Attacks on australia. Is this a u. S. china problem . No. This is a free world china problem. Thats what i argue in the book. Its past time for us to recognize that this is a real threat. Again we dont have to buy into this false dilemma, which means you have some ways people interpret it, a stark choice only between passivity and accommodation of the party or confrontation. So, i think competition is the theme. Well, on the topic of topic of china, general mcmaster, negotiations are continuing to close a deal with tiktok for u. S. Control of the company after President Trump gave his blessing on sunday for the videosharing app to move forward with oracle and walmart. But kara swisher, who studies the Tech Industry very closely, doesnt understand the deal. Take a listen. Ed. What im confused about is why china still owns this company. Bytedance is still the principle owner and oracle and walmart own about 20 . Im not really clear who has control here. The other part is i would like to know where the code goes. I would like to know whos in charge of the algorithm and how, exactly, oracle is going to protect the information. Its so lacking in detail that its really hard to understand how someone could bless it. Maybe he has other information that we dont. But i dont know if they have total control of tiktok without owning it. Its confusing to me. She added on twitter, the more reporting i do on this, the more it is a sleazy, back room deal that protects no one and advantages Trump Supporters and inexplicably the chinese government. General, what is your take on this . Any questions come to mind . I think in the clip you showed, those are exactly the right questions to ask, mika. What china is engaged in and what i describe in the book is this really sustained effort to suck in as much data as they can. What they hope to do is apply Artificial Intelligence technologies to gain a differential advantage in the data economy and also to weaponize our data against us. So, anybody who says, oh, why should we be concerned about tiktoks algorithm . I think we should ask the question of them, hey, do you expect the Chinese Communist party to treat you better than they treat their own citizens . These are important questions. Who owns the algorithm . Where does the data go ultimately . But this is the beginning of, i think, what has to be a sustained effort to protect ourselves against these kind of pernicious efforts to steal or to transfer or to trick us into giving up our data to the Chinese Communist party. General mcmaster, willie geist. Good to have you with us this morning. You say in the book as you talk about russia and china, for example, our competitors view us as weak and divided. As you know well, it wasnt always that way. To what extent do you think this administration is responsible for that perception from abroad . Yeah, i dont think this administration created those divisions, willie. I think be were doing it to ourselves. Across the political spectrum. Of course, the president could be much better in terms of the voice, his voice and what he says. I think oftentimes, will y the reaction to what the president says is just as bad. So, i just think all of us have to take ownership of this and recognize, hey, lets not be our own worst enemies. Russia is not creating these divisions, but, boy, theyre making full use of this em. And what they try to do, and what the whole meddling of the 2016 election was mainly about, it was mainly about dividing us on the most divisive issues. Race was 80 of the are ush shan bot and troll traffic followed a doesnt second by immigration and gun control. So, they know what theyre doing. In fact, this is out of the old kgb playbock. I of describe in the book the roots of these kind of efforts that go back to the 1920s. Of course, they have new tools available. They have social media, the algorithms of which help drive us apart from each other. And create conditions, what i say in the book is we are better connected to each other electronically than ever, but more distant from each other psych l psychologically and emotionally. I think its time for all americans to create venues to have respectful discussions about the greatest challenges we face and what were going to do to build a Better Future for generations to come. Thats what i hope the book will do. Thats the whole purpose of the book. And i just i just think we have to come out of these triple crises were in of the pandemic, the recession, the divisions in our society laid bare by the horrible murder of george floyd and anger and frustration of inequality of opportunity. Theres so much we can agree on, with i willy, lets just get after it together. And i think i think its past time for us to do that. We would all love to see that, and as the intel agencies are telling us this time, russia didnt just interfere at random. They interfered on behalf of President Trump. They wanted President Trump to be elected. They wanted President Trump to be reelected. Doesnt that tell you if what they seek is chaos and division, that they see donald trump as the man who can bring that to them . Hey, dont do whatever they think will divide us, right . As you know in the primaries theyre supporting bernie sanders, at least that was the reporting. Ill tell you, when i looked really hard at this at 2016, i think the russians were as surprised as anybody that donald trump won. What i saw was that they had teed up really a an Information Campaign to convince trump voters that Hillary Clinton stole the election from them. That was their main campaign. Then they quickly shifted it, right. They actually put some of that information out. Then they shifted it to, hey, well, President Trump would have won the popular vote if there wasnt voter fraud. And then they shifted their effort to the resist movement or not my president movement. Theyll support any extreme to pull us apart from each other. Thats why all of us, all americans have to be sensitive to this and not play into their hands. Dont be chumps about it and restore some pride in who we are as americans and what we have in common. I think that, you know, its past time to do that because i do think were making ourselves more and more vulnerable, especially this Campaign Season and we have to do everybody has to do their part. Before we let you go, youre well aware of the atlantic reporting of a couple weeks ago that said donald trump called Fallen Heroes from world war i losers and suckered, and he wondered why people who died in combat, what was in it for them. Did you ever hear the president called Fallen Heroes suckers or losers . No, never heard that. Did you ever hear him denigrate military veterans . I did not. I did not. Are you surprised that general kelly hasnt spoken out to rebutt some of the claims in that piece . I respect john kellys decision to do whatever he thinks. One of the things i would like to highlight for your viewers, all of us have to resist pulling at generals, exgenerals, washedup generals like me into the political process because we have to studiously guard the separation from partisan politics. I think everybody has the responsibility to do that. Our founders really feared this. George washingtons grand parents fled the english civil war. So it was very much on washingtons mind. We can never let the army the political tear be drug into politics. Let me ask you about the troop withdrawals. I was especially concerned with what happened in syria because it seemed like we had finally learned our lessons from iraq. We had a light footprint, we had warriors on the ground pushing the russians, the syrians, the turks, everybody back. It was, i thought i thought we were seeing the future of warfare and donald trump undercut our kurdish allies and took those troops out. Same thing happening in afghanistan. The president trying desperately to draw down in afghanistan like hes drawing down in germany. What do you write about this in your book . Well, i write about wars dont end when one side decides to leave. This is an element of this phenomenon of strategic narcissi narcissism. Think willing ing of the world. We dont cede any authority to our enemies or adversaries. We create strategies based on what we prefer to do rather than what the situation demands. Im not saying we need to have massive commitments but actually in integrate an integral part of war is consolidation of gains and getting to a political outcome consistent with what brought you into that fight to begin with. So, you know, i mean, joe, you cant take the George Costanza approach to war and leave and think somethings going to happen. That was disengaging from iraq in december 2011. I think this is really i think an element of educating the American People and, you know, and, you know, i think the American People deserve to know two things. What is at stake in this fight . And the second is, what is the strategy that will get us to an acceptable outcome. An outcome consistent with our security and vital interest at a cost thats acceptable. I dont think leaders across multiple administrations have done enough to explain that to the American People. Instead you hear the end the endless wars narrative but the American People dont have an understanding of what is at stake and what are the nature of these conflicts . Thats what i try to describe in battlegrounds. Its interesting when you talk about strategic narcissism. You remind me of another former National Security adviser that mika knows knew pretty well, that i knew pretty well. Dr. Brzezinski was constantly mocking and ridiculing pulitzer prizewinners and others that would come on our show saying the people of pakistan look to us as an example. They want to be like us. And he would say you fool, you fool. They dont want to be like us. And were being narcissistic. So certainly you reminded me when you talk about strategic narcissism of dr. Brzezinski. Thanks so much. Thanks for being on with us. Can i just say a word about your father really quickly. Just before he passed, i called every former National Security adviser before i took the job. I had a wonderful conversation with him. I admired him tremendously. I have this right here with me. Power and principle. Yes. And the first chapter on deal with personalities came in kind of handy. So i just want to tell you, how much i admire, respect your father and privileged to be with you guys today, and i hope the book achieves its purpose. Thanks for allowing me to talk about it. Thanks so much. Thank you very much. We hope you come back. The book is battlegrounds the fight to defend the free world. He talks about a lot of issues that are going to be around even after donald trump leaves office, whether its this year or whether its four years from now. Thank you so much. Thank you. H. R. Mcmaster. Now to another important figure. Early last year, this is how Elijah Cummings concluded a house hearing with trumps former fixer michael cohen. People are now using my words that they took from me that didnt give me any credit. Were better than this. We are so much we really are. As a country, we are so much better than this. I tell my children, i say when bad things happen to you, do not ask the question, why did it happen to me. Ask the question, why did it happen for me . I dont know why this is happening for you. But its my hope that a small part of it is for our country to be better. Those words brought me to tears. We are better than this. And theyre also now the title to the late congressmans posthumous memo. Were better than this. My fight for the future of our democracy which weaves personal stories in with the Political Drama of doing battle with the Trump Administration as the then head of the House Oversight committee. Joining us now is the late congressmans widow, Maya Rockymore cummings. Great to have you back on the show. Great to see you. So great im so glad that you worked on this project on putting together this book. Tell us about it because it does involve a lot of conversations with elijah before he passed. Hours upon hours of conversation. So the last year of his life was basically dedicated to making sure that he shared this what i call his love letter with the American People. He wanted to make sure that americans understood whats at stake in this election year. And elijah believed firmly that donald trump wasnt just the wrong person for the position. He believed that he was a direct threat to the people and to our system of government. And so his call that were better than this is to not just find Common Ground in this election season and beyond but to find Higher Ground that we actually need to come together as a nation to defeat this president because he does not have the capacity nor the will to ensure that our democracy sustains the test of time. A lot of people didnt know elijah was sick. In fact, when you and he was at our wedding. He officiated our wedding. You said he doesnt want to talk about it. Hes just so glad to be here. But there were times, especially with President Trump, where he was deeply hurt. Personally hurt by the president. And you talk about that. Can you tell us what that was like and why that mattered so much to him . You know, as compared to the actual physical pain that he was in. So elijah was a man that rose above party politics. He believed that you could get to know anyone on a personal basis, and that could serve as the opportunity to do good things on behalf of the American People. And so in 2017, despite everything that happened in the election of donald j. Trump, elijah reached out to him. We went to his inauguration. We went to a white house meeting, and he met with donald trump and asked him to work on lowering Prescription Drug costs for the American People. And donald trump basically went out of the meeting live and turned his back on him. Elijah then expected donald trump to start attacking him, and he did. You know, a year later, he was attacking baltimore and elijah because of all of the investigations that elijah had to manage that were coming out of the scandals coming out of the white house. And so it hurt elijah deeply. I think it facilitated his death. And i think that certainly i think the president understands that his words have impact and import. And he deliberately attacked elijah and the city of baltimore because he was trying to undermine elijahs effectiveness and leadership. Maya, its willie geist. I cant believe its almost a year since congressman cummings died. Our ongoing condolences to you and your family. Thank you willie. I was thinking about jon meacham who said john lewis last words to him were keep the faith. He remained hopeful until the end about the country. What was elijahs message to you and the country in the final moments. How did he feel about where we were as a country and where we could go . Its this book. And thats why i encourage everyone to pick it up. Its on how weve been better in the past. How weve risen to as a nation. How weve unified to overcome all kinds of obstacles, and that we can do it again. We can overcome this administration. Its mendacity and its corruption. And so with that, this message, this book is elijahs final message to me and the American People about where we need to go. And i certainly want to emphasize that its up to the American People. He wanted the American People to be the heros in the story because they have the power through the power of the ballot to change this narrative and preserve our democracy and our republic for future generations. Maya, thank you so much for bringing this to us and for being on today. Congressman Elijah Cummings posthumous memoir is titled were better than this my fight for the future of our democracy. Thank you so much. And that does it for us this morning. Stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage after this final 90second break. Smooth driving pays off with allstate the safer you drive the more you save youve never been in better hands allstate click or call for a quote today hi there. Im stephanie ruhle. Its tuesday, september 22nd. Lets get smarter. Election day. Are you ready for this . It is just six weeks away. And the president of the United States says he fully expects a new Supreme Court justice to be seated by then. It would be his third pick in just four years. If so, it means the final weeks of the campaign may be focused on Senate Hearings and vote counting, potentially pushing issues like the coronavirus pandemic to the back burner. The president and republicans think that is good news for them. And right now the head of the judiciary committee, Lindsey Graham, says they do have the votes to confirm the