Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20190812

Contributor mike barnicle. White house reporter for the Associated Press jonathan lemire. Professor at princeton university, eddie glaude jr. Nbc news correspondent stephanie gosk. And washington anchor for bbc world news america, katty kay. One sign that anyone could see something coming is if i saw something coming and i saw something coming. Joes captain obvious. If he saw this coming, anybody should have seen this coming. So mike, why didnt the bureau of prisons see this coming . Why didnt the Justice Department see this coming . Why didnt the white house see this coming . How did this happen . Well, joe, if the official story right now is if the facility is understaffed we have known that its been understaffed for quite some time theres really no clear answer on electronic monitoring. I dont think there was electronic monitoring in his cell. He was alone in a cell which is against doj department of Justice Policy which is a key question that has to be answered. The bottom line, joe, is that we the public, the American Public is going to need answers as quickly as they can be provided to sort of put a blanket on all of these speculative theories and conspiracy theories that are abounded and being given great length of life on twitter and we need answers as soon as today. And unfortunately, doj has been very, very slow getting off the mark here in providing the American Public with answers. This is both outrageous, unbelievable. And it tempts people to thinking that the worst has happened, that government is never on the level. And this is a full blown conspiracy cloud that needs to be put to rest immediately. Well, thats what the wall street journal editorial page this morning wrote. That this is one more reason why americans dont trust their government. Right. Jonathan lemire, you have to give the president credit. He did jump right into the issue immediately and took to twitter and got involved. What did he do . Well, the president has long trafficked in conspiracy theories. He of course was at the forefront of the Birtherism Movement saying that obama was not born in the u. S. Which is a lie. And he talked about ted cruzs father perhaps being involved in the Jfk Assassination and others and he was quick to do so here as well. Within just hours after epsteins death was reported he took to twitter and retweeted a couple of conspiracy theories that suggested his predecessor, bill clinton, perhaps was involved with this death. You know, the president himself didnt say these things. Hes quick to hide behind the idea that its just a retweet. Hes done that in the past when hes put up inflammatory things but i think this really needs to be focused on here. This is a moment where the nation is obviously very upset at learning whatever epstein has done over the last decades of his life and more and more has come out in the last few weeks when this is a front page story again. You know, we know that donald trump knew him. We know that bill clinton knew him. We dont know the extent of the relationships, we dont know what happened but this is the president is using a moment of National Confusion when a lot of people are upset and certainly epsteins victims are being denied that justice. He used that moment to try to score political points against a predecessor, but also seemingly implicating them in a crime and including the woman he ran against two years ago who the president would preside over chants of lock her up repeatedly and has threatened to use the Justice Department to exact political retribution and even arrest her going forward. So its another sort of galling moment from the president in this moment and certainly there are lots of questions about the death. The guards were also supposed to check every 30 minutes and didnt and yesterday the new york city medical examiner put out a report saying that the cause of death was simply pending. Thats standard. More tests are coming but its not going to put to ease all the questions that we have. Well, katty kay, the president almost does Anthony Scaramuccis work for him when scaramucci suggests that the president is getting worse. Something Jeffrey Goldberg wrote in the atlantic last week which is fairly remarkable when you look at how bad things have gotten. How chaotic things have gotten, how you look at jonathan lemires article from a few weeks ago talking with the Associated Press about how many people around the president who say his management style is becoming outrageously unmoored and then he caps that off by accusing the clintons of murder. It does just seem to keep getting worse and the president seems to become more and more unbalanced. The president has 63 million twitter followers so when he retweets conspiracy theories that is reaching a very wide audience. He knows exactly what hes doing and sometimes in the past hes even suggested his retweets are problematic. But he carries on doing it. He carries on doing it in this case. Hes done in the case of attack around the world when we didnt know what the cause was immediately saying it was islamic terrorism. Lets get the latest on this. This morning there are still more questions than answers following the apparent suicide of wealthy sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. Guards doing rounds on saturday morning found him dead in his jail cell in lower manhattan, that was at 6 30 a. M. Multiple people said that checks on inmates are supposed to take place every 30 minutes or so. According to nbc news, epstein was not on suicide watch at the time of his death even though he was found unconscious in his cell with marks around his neck just three weeks ago. Sources tell nbc that epstein underwent a psychiatric evaluation and they cleared him on or about july 29th. Because of the incident three weeks ago, epstein was supposed to have another inmate in his cell but the jail had recently transferred his cell mate and allowed epstein to be housed alone. A decision that actually violates the jails procedures. Meanwhile, the president for the local union for staffers told the Washington Post that the two Corrections Officers assigned to watch the special unit in the Detention Center where epstein was being housed were working overtime. One forced to do so by management. The other for his fourth or fifth consecutive day. Joe, it looks like there are issues in the jail as well, but of course a lot of questions about why there were so many coincidences that led to him being left alone. So many coincidences and stephanie gosk, theyre acting as if when they talk about oh, well, were understaffed and, well, theyre supposed to see him every 30 minutes, theyre acting as if the this prisoner is just one of many prisoners and not somebody who has information on president s, on princes, on governors, on senators, on harvard law professors. I mean, there are so many powerful people who may have done just extraordinarily terrible things but it seems that the Justice Department had a special need a special interest in keeping this man safe so we could so finally, justice delayed could be justice served. But thats of course not going to happen. So tell us what you have learned about exactly how this came about. Sure, joe. I mean, its not an exaggeration to say that Jeffrey Epstein was the most high profile inmate in federal custody at the time and its important to drill down on that time line. If you consider the fact that he was found in his jail cell injured on july 25th, and that he was according to our sources put on suicide watch. Were then told by july 29th, he was taken off of suicide watch. And because of conversations that i have had with particularly one former federal warden and a at a number of prisons including the sister facility in brooklyn the only way that happens to be taken off of suicide watch is if a psychologist or psychiatrist determined and spoke with a Program Coordinator at the facility and they decided that he should come off that watch. It would have been had to have been a decision made by executives there at the prison. This former official that i spoke to said obviously with an inmate like Jeffrey Epstein you are going to proceed with the utmost caution in everything that you do. Now, on suicide watch, he would have been in a special jumpsuit that would have prevented suicide. He would have been watched 24 7. That would be eyes on him 24 7. He was taken off, he was then put back in general population. And our understanding is that those half hour checks are theyre not specific times. Theyre arbitrary. So conceivably he could have been checked at the beginning of the hour, at the end of the hour and it would have given him time to take his own life. Even if the guards were doing what they were supposed to be doing which remains a question, there still was plenty of time for him to they say hang himself in his cell. Joe . Lets bring in right now state attorney for Palm Beach County dave aronberg. How does this happen . 30 minute rotations, one hour rotations. Heres a guy first of all that a lot of people wanted dead. Heres a guy who obviously you would think understood that he had nothing to live for so he had reason to commit suicide. But others had reason to try to get to him and have him killed as well. Isnt this a prisoner that you as a state attorney would make sure that prison officials had their eyes on 24 hours a day, seven days a week . Especially if youre going to get from him evidence involving possibly president s, past and current. U. S. Senators. Governors. Harvard law professors. I mean billionaires. This is outrageous. What would you do in this situation . Would you say, you know what, check him every hour or so . It is pretty shocking that the most high profile inmate in the entire world who had apparently tried to commit suicide three weeks prior was allowed to do so this past saturday. Now, theres supposed to be cameras in place at the special housing unit was epstein was housed and hopefully they can tell us a lot. Even if theyre not, i would succumb to the theories of outside influence but as a prosecutor, i deal with facts not conspiracies. I think its a suicide by multiple layers of human error, where you had overworked individuals guarding him because one had five overtime workdays in a row so that may explain why they didnt check on him every 30 minutes but doesnt explain why the facility would have taken his cell mate away. Thats a guard against suicide. So to me, there are a lot of Unanswered Questions but until we get more facts until we see the autopsy results and the video, then im going to still subscribe to the suicide theory by multiple layers of human error. Why would they take him off suicide watch, four days after he tried to commit suicide . Why would any prison take him off suicide watch . I think thats a great question. You can say that possibly that epstein and his lawyers wanted off suicide watch because at that facility, suicide watch can be punitive. Where youre not allowed to leave your cell very much. Youre forced to wear that suicide smock so you dont hang yourself on your clothes. You dont get eating utensils. You dont get bed sheets so you dont hang yourself so that may explain why they were eager to get out of suicide watch. But it only happened six days after the attempt. This has got to be reviewed but unfortunately the investigation is going to be led by attorney general barr who doesnt have that much credibility left with the American Public. And so anything that they come up with will be viewed skeptically and so these conspiracy theories will continue to thrive well into the future. So eddie glaude, you listen to the young women who were abused by this man, who were raped by this man. For 30 years they have not been able to have their day in court as charges were brought against this man and they were not able to have their day in court, confronting him, talking about president s, talking about princes, talking about senators. Talking about governors. I keep repeating all of this. Talking about harvard law professors, i keep repeating all of this because it just sends a very clear message that if youre rich and youre powerful in the United States of america in this case and you have connections, youre going to be able to avoid having a jury of your own peers. Youre going to have, you know, federal officials do a sweetheart deal for you. Then after a newspaper does an extraordinary job youre finally brought back to justice. And then youre left alone to kill yourself to avoid trial and again, once again, having to hear like we saw in the gymnastics case hear people tell you what you do to them. Im sorry, this is this is about two different americas. The rich have their own Justice System and everybody else has a completely different system of justice. Youre right in that regard. It seems not unreasonable for everyday ordinary people to jump to a version of a Conspiracy Theory. Not some wild Conspiracy Theory but to draw some inference from the fact if youre rich, if youre powerful you can somehow escape the law. That youre not treated like everyone else. Just to echo what mike said earlier it is important that this process is transparent. Its quick, that people let folk know what happened because it makes sense that people think that foul play has happened. So the first thing, we need to be transparent. The second thing is what you open with, joe, at least with me. That there needs to be justice for the victims. That somehow, some keep pursuing this on the civil side. That they need to be able to sue the estate. They need to be able to tell their story. So because theres still some folk out there who are caught up in this investigation. So i think transparency and we need to continue to pursue justice for those young guys, those now women, who were victims of what i take to be the monstrous behavior. And despite epsteins death, this criminal investigation that led to the sex trafficking charges are going to continue. Right . Right. According to the fbi agents theyll turn their attention that the accusers said participated in the scheme and involved the Sexual Exploitation of dozens of underaged girls and that could include a circle of Close Associates who accusers said helped to train, coerce into catering to epstein. No one has been named as cospiriter, but a non prosecution agreement said that prosecutors would not charge four women it identified as potential coconspirators. The chief federal prosecutor in manhattan has maintained its not bound by the florida agreement. Lawyers say many of epsteins accusers can still pursue civil claims against his vast estate, which is said still to be worth more than 500 million, joe. So thats kind of the legal situation but you said there that the investigation can continue. So maybe still possibly some justice for people involved . Perhaps. I mean, stephanie, some answers that need to be some questions that need to be answered about some high profile people on in both parties, and even people outside of politics who whether billionaires or famed law professors that we need to get the answers to. So tell us, stephanie, what have you heard is next in this aspect of the case . Where do these investigators go now . Well, the sdny has been incredibly tight lipped in the investigation. When you consider that Jeffrey Epstein was arrested and it took everyone by surprise. So theyre certainly not giving any real cues on where its going, but were taking our cues from the other legal things that have been going on. The day before he took his own life, there was a trove of documents released, nearly 2,000 pages in a civil case and this was Virginia Roberts giuffre. She took out a Defamation Case against a woman, maxwell. The reason she sued for deaf nation is because maxwell is denying that she recruited girls for sex with Jeffrey Epstein. But as a result of this Legal Process this case which was settled in 2017 we got to see some of the documents. Not all of them and some of them are out of context but it gives you some insight, some new names popped up out of these documents. Two in particular that struck our attention former u. S. Senator george mitchell, as well as the former governor of new mexico, bill richardson. Now both of those men the day that the documents were released very, very quickly denied any of the allegations. There were some names in the documents that we had seen before. Prince andrew in the uk who has also since denied any of the allegations. And what you see here is the potential, whether its maxwell, whether its other associates of Jeffrey Epstein, potentially facing criminal charges. Which would give these victims an opportunity to come forward. When we were talking about this incredible nonprosecution agreement that was struck in 2008, one of the extraordinary parts of it was the fact that not only was it a nonprosecution agreement for Jeffrey Epstein, but it was a nonprosecution agreement for his coconspirators. And that made a lot of people sit up and pay attention. You have to wonder whether the sdny is looking to potentially correct that. Yeah. Dave aronberg, let me ask you as a prosecutor, whats your next step in a case like this and can you can these young women still have justice served . It wont get complete justice because hell never be held accountable in a court of law and some of his secrets will die with him. But you will see more civil suits against him. Youre going to see probably the sdny name more individuals as coconspirators and maybe bring charges against them criminally and you have noncriminal investigations that are pending such as the inspector generals investigation of the controversial 2007 plea deal. All of these things will bring out more facts, all these things will reveal more secrets so this whole thing is far from over. And if youre one of these coconspirators who think that you just got away with it because of epsteins death, well, you just lost your leverage with federal prosecutors because epsteins not around to flip on anyone. Epstein is not around to cut a deal on. If youre looking around for a bigger fish to flip on, then generally, the big fish is you. Because theres no one else around. Wow. Okay. So still a lot of questions about what happened, still a lot of questions about what happens next. Coming up on morning joe how the el paso killer echoed the words of stars and the striking degree of overlap in language like invasion, and replacement of americans. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Joe. Well be right back. If you have moderate to thsevere rheumatoid arthritis, month after month, the clock is ticking on irreversible joint damage. Ongoing pain and stiffness are signs of joint erosion. Humira can help stop the clock. Prescribed for 15 years, humira targets and blocks a source of inflammation that contributes to joint pain and irreversible damage. Humira can lower your ability to fight infections. Serious and sometimes fatal infections including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. 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And so can you only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. How you watch it does too. Tv just keeps getting better. This is xfinity x1. Featuring the Emmy Awardwinning voice remote. Streaming Services Without changing passwords and input. Live sports with realtime stats and scores. Access to the most 4k content. And your movies and shows to go. The best tv experience is the best tv value. Xfinity x1. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Xfinity. The future of awesome. Were being invaded. The invasion of illegal immigrants. The fact of the matter is that this is an attempted invasion of our country. We have all of these minors from Central America flooding the border. Multiculturalism isnt real. This is destroying one culture and replacing it with a new, a foreign culture. This is not migrants coming in to the country. This is nothing short of an invasion. Democrats who want to replace you, the american voters, with newly amnestied citizens. This is a government sanctioned invasion of our country. An invasion. The New York Times is taking a deep dive into the conservative media world and found that the confessed shooter echoed many of the words of its most prominent stars. The times found striking overlap to transcripts from several shows on the right. For example, the confessed el paso shooter complained about the hispanic invasion of texas. That echoes the language of Tucker Carlson, Laura Ingraham and Jeanine Pirros show saying you can shoot invaders. It appeared on more than 300 different fox news broadcasts. Joining us now one of the New York Times reporters on that story jeremy peters. Jeremy, its striking the language referenced on the front page of the New York Times and the link to the el paso shooter. There is also a very short time line in many instances between the number of times that these words have been used on fox. We just saw a few instances of them. And sometimes a very short time line between that language, that type of language and tweets from the president of the United States directly reflecting the language. Yeah. Exactly, mike. Its not a oneway street here. Sometimes the president s words and form, the fox news hosts words inform the president and he repeats them. The result is this really toxic political discourse we have where its now become normal to refer to immigrants, migrants, as invaders, as some type of hostile enemy force that needs to be taken out and stopped at the border or in the words of one pundit maybe even shot. And how routine this has become. How common this has become was really striking to us when we reviewed five years of transcripts from several News Networks and radio programs, talk radio on the right, where its not only a regular occurrence to refer to them as an invading force but also that the motivation behind their coming here is not out to escape the horrible conditions in their homeland, but its to replace white americans. And thats where this intersects with the el paso killers manifesto. When you look at this talk of replacement which is also startlingly common in right wing media and has great overlap with this manifesto. Hey, jeremy, this is jonathan lemire. Obviously the president s twitter account and fox news is pushing forward this language but talk about where else you can find this. Certainly places whether its breitbart or sinclair, sort of the rising audiences that has a lot of people online where this alleged shooter in el paso clearly spent a lot of time and posted his manifesto in the hours before opening fire. Thats exactly right, jonathan. This is not exclusive to any one particular right wing outlet. This was broad. This was almost across everywhere we looked on the right in media whether its from sinclair, whether its talk shows like rush limbaughs. Websites like the gateway pundit has appeared on the drudge report. You are talking about websites, shows, talk shows on the radio, on television that have the potential to reach tens of millions of people a week. Jeremy, this is eddie. This i found the article fascinating. Talk to me more about the ecosystem of hate. Youre using the language of people on the right but we know that is a kind of spectrum. But what were seeing is its collapsing with this language, right . So the altright or White Nationalist who use replacement language and then you have fox news using replacement language. So this in some ways peeling the curtain back of the echo system of hate. Not the loud ones, but the folks who are also mainstream. So talk a little bit more about what this means in terms of the nature of the languages of hate and fear that circulate in the country today. Thats exactly right, eddie, because its migrated from the fringe to the mainstream in conservative rhetoric. And the idea of this replacement i think is the best example of this. Because thats something that originated with a white supremacist book about this supposed White Genocide that could occur if migrants keep flowing into places like europe and what the el paso killer did, what the killer who shot up the synagogue in pittsburgh did, you know, they referred to this invasion and explicitly in the el paso killers case referred to this idea of replacement several times. That the hispanic race was going to replace people like him, a white guy, and, you know, theres its difficult to draw a cause and effect, but i think you look at the language, the parallels, its pretty striking. You know, whats also striking, katty, is i mean, there are so many things that just dont make sense. Just factually when you talk about this issue and the rhetoric. Look for instance at the fact that illegal crossings were at a 50year low when donald trump like before donald trump became president of the United States. A half century low. And yet, he talks about an invasion. He talks about carnage. He has an entire campaign talking about this invasion that actually wasnt happening that under barack obama let me repeat it again, there were fewer illegal border crossings than any time over the past 50 years and yet the usa today did a study that showed that the president has used words like invasion and killer to discuss immigrants at rallies over 500 times. This has nothing to do with facts. The situation has gotten worse, far worse since donald trump got elected president and made it worse. But thats what might suggest that this is all about racism and it has very little to do with facts. If you look at government statistics that the Trump Administration itself keeps. Right. We got a hint of that when he came down the escalator in 2015 and the kind of language when he cut the aid and you make the situation potentially start and you wonder why there are more and more people coming to the border right now and thats a direct result of the policies of this white house. Jeremy peters, thank you so much for your reporting and well be reading more in the New York Times of course and coming up on the program, joe biden is doubling down on his push for background checks and the renewed ban on assault weapons. Well run through the latest polling on that issue. Its not even close. Morning joe is back in a moment. 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Im a 63yearold imagining i was imagining i was one of them that got shot and the other im so sorry. That was president ial candidate andrew yang on saturday night while overcome with emotion. After he heard one victims personal experience with gun violence. Meanwhile, democratic frontrunner joe biden is out with a new oped calling for the assault weapons ban to be reinstated and arguing it worked and joe pointed out there was polling that showed that 70 of americans support the ban on military style weapons which was enacted in 1994. But allowed to expire ten years later. The Vice President wrote in the New York Times, when you have that kind of broad public support for legislation that will make everyone safer and it still cant get through the senate, the problem is with weakwilled leaders who care more about their Campaign Coffers than children in coffins. He continued, theres so much we can do. Practical, sensible steps that draw broad support among the American People. But we will see only more and deadlier shootings if we can continue to dodge the core issue of unregulated assault weapons and high capacity magazines in our communities. Mike, its a powerful, powerful oped. But it happens to be backed up by overwhelming polling. We have seen since newtown a complete transformation in the polling and the politicians have been slow. The republican politicians especially have been slow catching up to the public. But the publics moving so far ahead of them right now. I dont know that theyre going to have any choice but to start passing sensible gun safety legislation to stop the next killing in a church or a synagogue or a walmart, a school or a Country Music festival. Well, joe, youre right. Youre right. But i mean, how long have we been talking about these items . How long . I mean, joe bidens oped page piece in the times is correct. The establishment of the assault weapons ban you can prove it has an effect and he suggested amendments to the law that could be enforced now, implemented now. Smart gun technology. Things like that. But again, i revert back to the question i just posed, how long have we been talking about these things . We have had children killed, babies killed in classrooms in connecticut. We have had church shootings, multiple church shootings, synagogue shootings, el paso, dayton. We talk and we talk and we talk and the United States senate sits there looking at overwhelming evidence in the polls you just referenced. People favor the establishment of new, tougher laws and nothing ever gets done. People getting shot up in movie theaters, on College Campuses and Elementary Schools right before christmas. Country Music Festivals in nevada. The accumulation of all these events have gotten americans to say, enough is enough. And lets revisit those poll numbers, by the way. Quinnipiac poll in march shows that 93 of voters support background checks for all gun buyers. Support, get this republicans, is 89 among people who are members of the Republican Party and 87 among gun owners that means nine out of ten republicans and about nine out of ten gun owners like me support an expanded background check. Doesnt mean they dont value the Second Amendment like me. I value the Second Amendment. But i have been calling on this for some time and been viciously attacked by nra tv ads when in fact what i have said all along is that republicans and gun owners agree with me and not the nra. Not their three lobbyists in washington, d. C. That are getting trying to get 6 million mansions and trying you know, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on italian suits. Theres a recent politico consult poll that found that 70 of all voters would back a ban on military style weapons and that includes a majority of republicans. So jonathan lemire, this is an issue whose time has come. Certainly on background checks, but even on military style assault weapons that are used in the majority of these mass shootings. Even a majority of republicans now want there to be a ban on those type of weapons. But those any sort of ban on those type of weapons doesnt seem to be in the discussion right now. The democrats in the house have passed some gun control measures certainly. The weight is on the Republican Party senate and Mitch Mcconnell who has refused to act on any of it. The president as he was leaving for the start of his Summer Vacation in bedminster, new jersey, he spoke on the south lawn and he said he spoke about supporting something. He threw some Political Capital behind passing something, likely background checks. He spoke to Senate Leader Mitch Mcconnell and granted, mcconnell himself hasnt said that and he the president is an unreliable narrator and he spoke to Wayne Lapierre. Now the nra is in a weakened position right now. Wh lapierre is engulfed by scandals and if the president wanted to go to bat, he could provide cover for republicans because we know the president has overwhelmingly positive poll numbers within his own party. He could he could do this. The question is will he . Will his Attention Span remain on this. Remember he made promises after the parkland shooting to do the same and never followed through. Made promises after parkland and did absolutely nothing. He made promises after well, when the immigration debate was going. That he would do whatever congress came up with. Whatever comprehensive immigration plan they came up with. He broke his word there too. So right now, a lot of skeptical americans that 90 that background checks, 94 , im sure theyre wondering whether the president and congress will actually do what over nine out of ten americans are demanding that they do. Still ahead, president ial candidate andrew yang is going to be our guest this morning. Plus, cal perry is just back from the border, not the u. S. Border with mexico, but the Mexican Border with guatemala. He has fascinating reporting of the border there. Well bring it to you next on morning joe. G it to you next morning joe. Thats the only circumstance to which you would separate. Cant imagine doing it any other way. This is Caitlin Dickerson from the New York Times. This isnt the only case. Very little documentation. Lo que yo quiero estar con mi hijo. I know thats not true. And the shelters really dont know what to do with them. I just got another person at d. H. S. To confirm this. I have this number. Were going to publish the story. Would shakespeare have chosen just some pens . Methinks tul pens would serve mlady well. Thanks. And a unicorn notebook get everything on your list. This weeks doorbuster 1inch binders for 1; 1 in store or online from the advisors at Office Depot Officemax. This administration has directed dhs to conduct these raids as part of what i believe is this administrations campaign of terror. Which is to make whole populations of people afraid to go to work. We say every person matters. We count. We make decisions based on whos here and what they need. And you and i will both suffer if that census count is flawed and im telling you that given the policies of this administration that is going to be a flawed census. That was senator Kamala Harris over the weekend on the recent raids targeting undocumented workers. With us now nbc news correspondent cal perry. Cal, you just returned from the Mexican Border with guatemala where you gained exclusive access to the Mexican National guard on assignment there to slow down the flow of undocumented immigrants. Tell us about it. This is all a Pressure Campaign from President Trump and you heard it from senate harris, they changed immigration in america, theyve changed what it means to be an immigrant in america, but now the trump miller doctrine its having ripple effects to the mexico guatemala border. In tapachula, mexico, most people are from somewhere else. Did you think about going to the u. S. . No. Why not . Because i got deported already. What is it like here . [ bleep ], its its not good. Right now, the situation in america is very difficult for illegal immigrants. President trump isnt just affecting the lives of migrants. He is shifting policy inside mexico. His tune on the country has recently not so subtly shifted. I want to thank, by the way, the country of mexico. They have got 21,000 soldiers on the border right now. Im starting to like mexico a lot. This is the new reality for the Mexican Government ever since President Trump threatened this country with tariffs, 11,000 new National Guardsmen have been stood up on the border with guatemala. For the commander here and his personnel, the mission is as tenuous as the politics. For security reasons the military insisted we conceal his identity. Whats the stated mission of the soldiers who have been stood up here on the border . Traveling back and forth between mexico and guatemala has been a part of daily life and commerce for censures. It is only in the era of President Trump that you now need an i. D. When reaching a mexican side of the river. That show of force along the border with guatemala some half the story. The Mexican Government is setting up centers like this one in an attempt to get migrants to register. It is their way of trying to bring some semblance of order in what is a chaotic situation. People from all over the world queue up and jockey for position by the gates that seem to swing open at random. Authorities both eager to get people into the system and at the same time are and meanwhile, people are stuck here. Many after a treacherous journey, afraid still to show their faces. Fearing it will hurt their chances of eventually making it to the United States. As night falls on this border town, we meet ishmael. His parents brought him to california when he was only 3 years old. Recently deported, hes trying to get back to the only life and family he knows. Are you trying to get back . I am. I am trying to get back. How are you either legally or if possible illegal. So youd cross back illegally if you have to . Yes. Definitely. Just to be back with my family. Now, look the policies are advertised as a deterrent and they probably are. But the cost of that is just human suffering. People in detention on either side of the border. Separated families or in this case people piling up at these border crossings unable to move in any either direction. So we see trumps draconian policies and how its affecting the way that mexico governs. How will the mexican president survive this because he seems to be puppet of donald trump. I dont know that he will. You look at the election that happened in guatemala last night, the effect of these policies are governments are moving to the right in this hemisphere. We have seen this story before where the u. S. Puts pressure on certain governments and it ends up changing policy. Mexico is in an untenable position. When you add to that a shooting in el paso by a gunman who said im going to kill as many mexicans as i can, you now have the Mexican Government having to go out of its way to change the relationship with the u. S. Cal perry, thank you so much. Another great report. We really appreciate it. Thank you. Coming up next, well discuss what happens with Jeffrey Epsteins case now that hes dead and whether his victims will ever get justice. Morning joe is coming right back. Im a migraine sufferer and im an emt. When i get a migraine at work, its debilitating. If i call out with a migraine, thats one less ambulance to serve a community. I just dont want to let these people down. Excedrin migraine. Relief that works as hard as you do. The way you triumph over adversity. And live your lives. Thats why we redesigned humira. We wanted to make the experience better for you. Now theres less pain immediately following injection. Weve reduced the size of the needle and removed the citrate buffers. And it has the same effectiveness you know and trust. Humira citratefree is here. A little change can make a big difference. Humira can lower your ability to fight infections. Serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. Tell your doctor if youve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if youve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. Dont start humira if you have an infection. Ask your doctor about humira citratefree. Heres to you. But were also a company that controls hiv, fights cancer, repairs shattered bones, relieves depression, restores heart rhythms, helps you back from strokes, and keeps you healthy your whole life. From the day youre born we never stop taking care of you. Liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, from thehmm. Exactly. Orn so you only pay for what you need. Nice. But, uh. Whats up with your. Partner . Not again. Limu thats your reflection. Only pay for what you need. Liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty were going all in thion strawberries. Ra, at their reddest, ripest, they make everything better. Like our strawberry poppyseed salad and new strawberry summer caprese salad. Order online for delivery. Panera. Food as it should be i would like to see an investigation to understand how this was permitted to happen when he was incarcerated. The system broke down here. He should have been held for trial. And his victims should have had a chance to testify against him. There should have been a public airing of what happened, who helped him, who was involved in it and now all of that has been cut off. That was senator Elizabeth Warren over the weekend. Talking about the apparent suicide of Jeffrey Epstein. Welcome back to morning joe. Its monday, august 12. With us we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle. White house reporter for the Associated Press, jonathan lemire. Eddie glaude jr. Katty kay and joining the conversation, author, columnist, Jeff Greenfield, investigator reporter for the Washington Post, Carol Leonnig and from the New York Times, peter baker. Katty, there certainly is a damning time line on justice or injustice as it pertains to Jeffrey Epstein. Lets go through that right now. Yeah, justice not served at least so far. Lets go back to march 2005 when a 14yearold girl claimed that Jeffrey Epstein molested her. In august of 2007, the u. S. Attorney in Miami Alex Acosta entered into direct discussions about a plea agreement and in 2008 after reaching the nonprosecution agreement, epstein pled guilty to state charges involving soliciting prostitution and a minor for prostitution. He received an 18 month sentence, but served about 13 months in a work release program. He was allowed to spend most of his days at his West Palm Beach office. In july of 2008, epsteins victims learned about his plea after the fact. And a month later, epsteins victims tried to have his plea agreement unsealed but federal prosecutors argued against it. In november of 2018, the miami herald published an investigation that shed light on the epstein deal. Reporter Julie Kay Brown found about 60 women who say they had been abused by epstein from 2001 to 2006 and a federal judge ruled that the 2008 plea deal was illegal because the victims were not told about it. Epstein was then arrested on july the 6th, on july the 12th, labor secretary acosta stepped down. On july 24th, nbc news reported that epstein has been found semiconscious in his cell with marks around his neck. As we have been discussing on saturday he was found dead of an apparent suicide. A lot has happened very fast in the last few weeks. And mike barnicle, justice delayed not justice served for Jeffrey Epstein. It is remarkable how this guy has escaped justice for as long as he has. Of course, cynics would say its not really that remarkable. Hes a very wealthy man. He was a very wealthy man with a lot of connections with the most powerful people in the United States over the past several decades. And this guy got away with raping young girls time and time again. Joe, one of the key ingredients in this massive screwup by the department of justice and the federal bureau of prisons, just look at the bail hearing held a few weeks ago. He offered his lawyers offered everything. His homes, his all of his properties. His plane. All of his wealth, his passport in order to get him released on bail to his home here in manhattan where he would wear an ankle bracelet. That was turned down. He is not a stupid man. He was not a stupid man. He realized then probably for first time that he was indeed going to spend the rest of his life in prison. And then you had what is alleged to have been one Suicide Attempt a couple of weeks ago and then finally the deed is done over the weekend right in front of the federal bureau of prisons, right in front of the guards at the manhattan correctional institute. Carol leonnig, this story is just beginning. Absolutely it is. It is really amazing that this happened. I think its most amazing because obviously Jeffrey Epstein is one of the most high profile residents of a federal prison at the moment or was and the second piece, mike, its happened on july 23rd, either he attempted to kill himself then or he was attacked as he claimed to authorities in the prison. And that is how much more of a red flag do you need than that . Now over the weekend since he was found dead early on saturday morning, the attorney general has, you know, disrupted his weekend to say, wow, this is pretty serious. Im livid, im appalled, we have to get to the bottom of this but thats a little too late. How is it that a federal prison would have allowed this to happen . My colleagues at the the post over the weekend reported that there were severe staffing shortages at this prison, but thats also kind of thin in my view. Because really hes the highest profile guy. If you cant have guards on him who do you not have guards on . Yeah. Peter baker, that is i saw that excuse and talk about thin. You have a guy here that if you believe the reports and if you believe the victims and the depositions some guy weve got a guy in epstein, a witness who can testify against past president s, against princes, against senators, against governors, against college professors. You can go down the list. The Justice Department had every reason as it entertained to justice to keep this as it pertained to justice to keep this guy alive and he was one of thousands of prisoners and they couldnt make the rounds quickly enough because of Staff Shortages that does seem thin. How did the Justice Department, how did the attorney general allow this to happen . Its a great question and it sounds like a thin excuse and one they have to answer for, both for the attorney general and the president of the United States. Hes expressed interest in this over the weekend. He does it in a way that naturally fans the flames of conspiracy theories. But, you know, in this case there is reason for suspicion and theres reason for doubt and thats the kind of thing that puts this administration in an awkward position. This is a president who had been at one point friends with Jeffrey Epstein. He said they broke off their friendship 15 years ago. Of course, Jeffrey Epstein had been, you know, acquainted or friends with bill clinton as you pointed out. Hes got powerful friends, powerful acquaintances over the years and you can weave all sorts of incredible fanciful and yet somehow potentially gripping conspiracy theories out of this. Its one thing to see what this investigation will come up with. My guess is even once we have it, some sort of a defintive report it may not be enough to satisfy people. Because there are so many you know, tangled webs here. Picking up on peters points, certainly the president himself fueled some of the conspiracy theories with his pair of retweets over the weekend but talk about why this moment is so ripe for this. You have obviously a lot of big, powerful names involved. Terrible accusations of crimes involved. We live in the era where thanks to social media the conspiracy theories can bounce from one side of the globe in nanoseconds and we have a president fanning the flames. Tell us why you think this moment is raising so many questions and what could be done about it . Will the American People ever be satisfied with what we learned . First of all, over the last couple of years the buildup of the me too movement has focused on powerful men who abused women. This is on steroids. If you were shaping the case, very rich person, privileged, he knew everybody, he gets the best lawyers to cut a deal that shuts the victims out and then proposes well, heres how you treat me now, let me live in the multimillion dollar mansion theres nothing on this that feeds the conspiracy. Nonconspiracy people were saying hold it, wait a minute. This makes no sense. Theres a very famous new york case, a mobster who was about to testify against the murder incorporate, he was stashed in the hotel in coney island and he was guarded by police, he jumped out the window. You dont have to be a new york historian to say im not buying it. I dont think this is beginning to be over. Not to mention one more thing, the fact that the president of the United States is retweeting the most ridiculous Conspiracy Theory and you think that the establishment on his side has said nothing about it. So amid all of those conspiracy theories, leaders from both sides of the aisle in congress are now demanding answers as to how Jeffrey Epstein was apparently allowed to kill himself while in federal custody. We have heard from Elizabeth Warren and in a furious letter to the Justice Department, republican senator ben sasse blasted the doj for the circumstances, writing in part, the department of justice failed and Jeffrey Epstein coconspirators think they must have gotten one last sweetheart deal. Every Single Person in the Justice Department knew that this man was a suicide risk. And that his dark secrets couldnt be allowed to die with him. Given epsteins previous attempted suicide he should have been locked in a padded room under unbroken, 24 7 hour constant surveillance. Obviously, heads must roll. Carol, what discussion is there from the congressional side of trying to get to the bottom of this and hold people accountable if indeed heads do need to roll over this . Well, there was a lot over the weekend about how concerned members of congress are about it. In part because it looks so horrible that victims, you know, basically shut out of the process in 2008 caught unawares that that Jeffrey Epstein had gotten this incredible sweetheart deal. Now they have one more chance to face their accuser and thats gone. Its just amazing really when you think about how this could have happened. I have never seen an attorney general, by the way, issue a statement about a dead prisoner before. It tells you just how serious this is politically. Notwithstanding the president s own interest in it. There are conspiracies on both sides, but the real i like what jeff said its so serious because even serious people are going, thats convenient hes dead. Its just too odd. It is too odd, mike barnicle. You know, i glibly said that i glibly said this weekend, you know, very rich and powerful man who has powerful connections with president s and billionaires and princes, et cetera, et cetera, whos going to testify against them ends up dead in his jail cell and i said it sounds how russian i could have said following on what Jeff Greenfield said, this is what we see in mob cases. This is what we saw the godfather obviously based on a lot of mob cases as well. It makes no sense. Theres no way that the Justice Department should have left this man sitting in that jail cell by himself and there is no explanation that the attorney general, theres no explanation the bureau of prisons with give. Theres no explanation that anyone can give to explain why he was and whether that launches a million conspiracy theories or not. This attorney general and this president have a lot to answer for. Joe, im kind of Old Fashioned and im proud like jonathan and peter baker and carol who are here this morning with us. I used to prefer to wait for a few of the facts of the story to come out before you make a judgment but boy, this is a real test. This is a real test. And the idea and carol referenced this right away that the undermanned and overtired staff at the manhattan correctional institute, they have been forced to work overtime. Joe, this is a small, confined space we are talking about. Theyre not being asked to run a marathon. They could have checked on that prisoner, you know, a couple of times an hour and they didnt. By the way, mike barnicle, if youre the attorney general of the United States and theyre holding the most important prisoner in the world as far as testimony goes, youre going to say, keep your eyes on him 24 7. Its pretty interesting that Khalid Sheikh mohammed is still alive today. The United States government managed to keep Khalid Sheikh mohammed alive. They managed to keep alive terrorists or terror suspects that they needed to testify or they needed information for the september 11th attacks alive. Yeah. That wasnt that difficult and here, again, youre talking about a man who had information on some of the most powerful people in this country over the past quarter century and you cant keep him alive . I mean, the attorney general should have bent over backwards given Donald Trumps own past with Jeffrey Epstein, his own relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. If the president had nothing to do worry about, then the president then the president should have bent over backwards and the attorney general should have done the same to make sure this man stayed alive. And guess what, joe, even with the psychiatric release you know, we can take him off of suicide watch now. You have a psychiatrist talk to him a couple of times a day. The warden of the institution can could say im could say i dont care about that, im going to keep him on suicide watches and once they hear the clang of the doors behind him they know their freedom is gone and theyre incapable of handling it, lets watch him. And the conspiracy theories blowing up over the weekend where donald trump was blaming the clintons and other people were blaming donald trump. There is so much mud on both sides. I mean, be careful what mud you toss at you know, if youre living in a glass house. It seems to me that both sides have been implicated in this. And theres no clean, clear Conspiracy Theory that you can posit on the internet that might not boomerang around and hit somebody on your own side. Yeah, it makes you wonder if in fact one reason that the president tweeted those things is to make sure that his version of the Conspiracy Theory is the more prominent one until someone came around to him or Something Like that. You had the fascinating exchange rather extraordinary exchange of course where you have a sitting president in effect suggesting that a former president was somehow complicit in the death of an inmate and then the former president s own office suggests that the sitting president was mentally unfit because of the statement they put out suggested that the 25th amendment should apply, that includes the removal provision because in case of incapacity. Thats not the main story, but a sub story. Its a story about the rich and the power, and the wealthy and those who stand outside the system in some ways. Jeff, you made an important point about the cultural moments. In some ways were overrun by reality tv and this needs to be resolved quickly and transparently not to deepen distrust among everyday working people in the way that the system works. As a general point, the belief across the spectrum that the system is rigged whether donald trump asserts it or Elizabeth Warren has been simmering for quite a while. You cant find a case that more perfectly illustrates that than this person with bipartisan friends and the money to hire the you know, the best lawyers and the whole thing about this weekend punctuated by the president s tweet i felt poleaxed. I felt this was so far beyond the norm that its almost to the president s benefit that youre paralyzed by just sheer shock that this could be going on. The last thing ill say is the next time the Supreme Court justice comes before the Senate Committee and they intone no one is above the law, i think one senator should read you the themes of the people who have been above the law because until the last few months Jeffrey Epstein was clearly beyond the law. I think its only going to deepen cynicism. Well, hes beyond the law now. His accusers are never going to be able to file in and open in open court during a criminal case and tell him or during sentencing and tell him, explain to him exactly how they destroyed their lives. So i think eddie brought up a great point. All the conspiracy theories out there, this is not about red state america, this is not about blue state america. Its not about red or blue. Its about green. This guy had enough money to buy people off in both parties, to buy friends in high places. And because of it, he escaped justice for years and will never ever have to face his accusers in open court. In the end its about the girls, its about the girls who hes alleged to have abused over the course of a period of years who wont get justice in this case. You just hope that the prosecution will carry on going after the people, some of whom are in the uk like ghislaine maxwell, if she was procuring the girls and they were just girls for him for his sexual gratification, hopefully this case does not stop and the investigation goes after those people forcefully as well. Thank you all for the great conversation. Still ahead on morning joe as a president ial candidate, andrew yang is perhaps best known for his economic ideas but after this weekend he may be known for something else. He fought back tears after he heard about a woman whose 4yearold daughter dodged gunshots. Youll hear from him, next. Heat applebees handcrafted burgers now with endless fries starting at 7. 99. Now thats eatin good in the neighborhood. Its how we care for our patients like job. His team at ctca treated his cancer and side effects. So job can stay strong for his family. Cancer Treatment Centers of america. Appointments available now. 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Plus, with twohour appointment windows, its all on your schedule. Awesome. Now all you have to do is move. That thing. [ sigh ] introducing an easier way to move with xfinity. Its just another way were working to make your life simple, easy, awesome. Go to xfinity. Com moving to get started. I have a 6 and 3yearold boy. I was imagining i was imagining it was one of them that got shot and the other saw it. Im so sorry. That was andrew yang overwhelmed with emotion while hearing one victims personal story of being impacted by gun violence and the democratic president ial candidate joining us now. Andrew, obviously a very moving moment for you. Talk about being out on the campaign trail and getting to meet so many people who were having so many challenges and obviously that the greatest of them all. Talk about how thats changed you and how its impacting you in the campaign trail. Well, that moment was just a very human moment as a parent listening to this mothers story about how one of her children was shot in front of the other and just thinking about what that would mean for the family and that footage is only two days old. So that moment is still fresh. I was just with my kids and i hugged them a little extra tight yesterday. Just its just a human response and this sort of phenomenon cannot be allowed to be possible in this country. Yeah. So how has this campaign moments like that talking to other americans who were struggling to get by every day, to if they have a Small Business to make payroll every two weeks, if they have got kids that they want to get to college but they cant afford that or if theyre young kids Young Students that are worried about paying off their debt, how has that impacted you as a person and as a candidate . Well, its an incredible journey running for president because you meet thousands of americans across the country and all sorts of circumstances. And many of them bring to you their stories of loss, their stories of struggle and if youre any kind of frankly any kind of decent human being you cant help but grow through that process. I knew there were deep problems in our country, but the deeper you go unfortunately the more serious the problems become. We have to start to focus on solutions and how to improve the lives of so many americans. It was interesting on the small level when i knocked on doors running for Congress Years and years ago it didnt take knocking on too many doors to figure out what issues were the most important to people after four or five doors and four or five four of the five people saying the same thing. I knew pretty quickly, i didnt need to take a poll to figure out what mattered to working class americans. What is that one issue that you keep hearing coming up when youre meeting voters . When youre meeting american citizens, what is the top issue on their mind in the summer of 2019 . Well, i think the issue on their minds is why does it feel like their working harder and harder and theyre never getting ahead. Why does it feel like the future theyre giving to their kids is not as bright as the future they had experienced when they were growing up in this country. That to me is a central issue that got donald trump elected and its still with us. Unfortunately, we need to start getting into the roots of these problems because even if the democrats successfully defeat donald trump in 2020 which were going to do, the problems will still be with us. We have to focus on the solutions that were going to improve the peoples lives on the ground, because they dont feel like their work is getting them where they want to go. Jeffrey greenfield is with us. And he has a question for you. Jeffrey . Okay. So you were anyone who saw what you saw and heard what you heard would be affected and you have seen over and over again when its personal, theres a massive response. But the conditions that you describe it seems to me are a result of many, many years of macro policies. Ranging from the unions to the technological changes you have been a big part. So when you move from the dramatic moments to Public Policy it seems that both parties bear a huge responsibility because its happened under both parties and its easier to say focus on the macro changes than think of what happened to that poor young girl. There are solutions that are macro and, you know, i agree with you completely. Both parties share responsibility and that the issues have been decades in the making. I mean, if you look at the share of wealth and income thats accrued to the top of our society and its gone on through the democratic and the republican administrations and americans do mistrust now that the system is working for them. Thats very, very hard to get back. Like you cant magically reconstitute trust. So this is going to be a massive set of challenges for us for years to come regardless of whos in the white house. So you spoke obviously very emotionally about the aftermath of gun violence. What are some policies you want to see . I want to to control guns an i want to zero in on one in particular. You want to upgrade to have gun owners personalize their weapons. Explain what that means and how possibly youll get it done and pay for it. Im in line with democrats in terms of the big legislative goals. We need to have universal background checks and ban automatic weapons but the reality is we have over 300 million firearms in this country, one for every man, woman and child and if we pass a law the guns are still out there. We should have a perpetual buy back that anyone who wants to sell their gun gets the money and you can start reducing supply but the other thing you can do in this personalization of guns you can make a grip thats essentially knows its the owner, based on the size of the hand, the pressure, its not a fingerprint thing, but the dimensions of your hand. Then if someone tries to fire that gun then it doesnt work. This sounds very james bondish, but the technology is very much available its just the gun manufacturers havent felt like it was good for their businesses to have this. Would it be required to do that . Would gun owners have to submit their guns for that personalization . No, it would be optional, but a lot of gun owners would love that. A lot of people have children and they know if their children get ahold of the guns it can be disastrous. It can be much safer. You know, mike barnicle, for statistics only 3 or 4 of the crimes that are committed are actually committed with people who purchased the gun used in that crime. And its so fascinating that here we are in 2019 talking about how youve got a president and a majority leader who wont do what havent done what 90 of americans wanted to do on background checks. Go back 19 years. George w. Bush considered to be a pretty conservative guy, a popular republican, he supported that finger print technology in 2000. He supported expanded back ground checks. He supported a ban on military style semiautomatic, assault style weapons. You look at what three lobbyists in washington, d. C. Working for gun makers and hedge fund owners who own the Gun Companies have been able to do to twist and distort the debate. They have taken it in a direction that has obviously been to the benefit of a lot of people who wanted to walk in, buy the deadliest weapon they could buy and kill as many people as they could. Sure, joe. Well be talking about this issue for several days and the senate and house wouldnt be back until after labor day and then there will be an entirely new issue on the table and this will receded to the back burner thats the way its gone for 50, 60, 70 years. Andrew, i have a story and a question for you and the story is old. Probably 30 years ago this summer in a hot saturday night in the roxbury section of boston, massachusetts, a 7yearold boy is shot on the stoop of his home. The homicide detective sergeant in that case i remember it clearly because it was so vivid to me, his name was herby spellman, when this happens, people say the kid was in the wrong place at the right time. He was in the right place at the wrong time. This happens in every big city in america and often the victim is a young kid. The stories appear in agate type in the newspapers, the people dont read about them. Theyre often almost always members of a minority. We dont understand it. We dont hear about it. We dont read about it. What can be done about the culture of homicide in this country, when we dont notice things unless its children being shot in schools of connecticut or el paso, people being shot simply because theyre mexican. But theres a culture in this country where we dont understand comprehensive the viciousness of whats going on. I was just with a gun activist in baltimore Antonio Moore and he said in baltimore often the shooter is a victim too. Thats whats happening in so many of the communities where the communities have lost their way forward and so many young people have been falling into the culture of gun violence that affects kids sitting on their stoop. Its unacceptable. We have to go in and build the communities from the ground up. We know what we need to do, but we have to have the resources to put it to work. Andrew yang, thank you for coming on the show. Thank you so much for coming on the show, andrew, and we hope youll come back some time very soon. Thank you. Coming up beto orourke continues to hammer the president in the wake of the el paso shooting. More from the campaign trail next on morning joe. Trail next on morning joe. Most people think a button is just a button. That a speaker is just a speaker. Or that the journey cant be the destination. Most people havent driven a lincoln. Discover the lincoln approach to craftsmanship at the lincoln summer invitation. Right now, get 0 apr on all 2019 lincoln vehicles plus no payments for up to 90 days. Only at your lincoln dealer. The way you triumph over adversity. And live your lives. Thats why we redesigned humira. We wanted to make the experience better for you. 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So i asked my doctor what else i could do, and i said yesss to linzess. Linzess treats adults with ibs with constipation or chronic constipation. Linzess is not a laxative, it works differently. It helps relieve belly pain and lets you have more frequent and complete bowel movements. Do not give linzess to children less than 6, and it should not be given to children 6 to less than 18, it may harm them. Do not take linzess if you have a bowel blockage. Get immediate help if you develop unusual or severe stomach pain, especially with bloody or black stools. The most common side effect is diarrhea, sometimes severe. If its severe, stop taking linzess and call your doctor right away. Other side effects include gas, stomach area pain, and swelling. Im still doing it all. The water. The exercise. The fiber. And i said yesss to linzess for help with belly pain and recurring constipation. Ask your doctor. From the 5am wakers, to the 6am sleepers. 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It shows the president smiling with a thumbs up while the first lady holds an infant whose parents were both killed in the el paso massacre. Its compared to one that trump tweeted on Cinco De Mayo three years ago with a taco bowl, also smiling with a thumbs up. The president s caption reading in part i love hispanics. And in the case of the taco bowl, graham notes that the thumbs up was to signal approval, but questions what it meant in the photo with the baby. Graham writes, quote, i do not imagine that trump is applauding the slaughter, but few gestures are appropriate for both a taco bowl and the death of a babys parents. Jonathan lemire, whos running point on this . Who is it in the white house . That sees a photograph that allows it to be put out there, is there control going on . The president of the United States. First of all, the thumbs up is his default for every picture. But it conveys a couple things here. First of all, hes always struggled to say the least conveying empathy in times of disasters like in the hurricanes or in the aftermath of shootings. Lets flash back to wednesday, he was standing among the victims and made himself the victim. Complaining about the media coverage, taking to twitter on air force one and whether talking joe biden or congressman castro, and he was upset about the coverage. He chewed out aides on the plane. Upset that they were there were some critical things said about his visit, you know that senator brown from ohio gave a mild criticism of how things went in ohio even though he said that most there who he meant with were happy to see but hes extraordinarily sensitive about the media coverage. He lashes out. It was the white houses decision again to prevent the press pool from accompanying him inside the rooms when they met the victims. Thats a photo later on. We didnt see the exchanges and thats the picture that the white house wanted out there. Initially tweeted by the first ladys account herself. What do you hear from Staff Members . What do you hear from people close to donald trump and his orbit about for instance that picture. Again, it seems to me there seems nob whto be no malicious there. There was that scene inside the white house where a woman was telling the president about i believe the loss of her child and the president sat had a glazed over look behind his desk inside the white house. And this has happened several times when you know, also when he sort of rambled on to Tucker Carlson that cities that trash just came to cities three years ago. Which news to new york city which is on a 50 year gentrification program. But what are the theories about especially lets say that picture or the theory about him sitting behind his desk and just being out of it while somebody is talking about the loss of their child. Is he tired . Is it hes not listening to them . Is his mind somewhere else . What do his staffers tell you . His advisers both inside and outside the white house in particular talk about how its two things. Sort of the inability to make an emotional connection. Feelings dont resonate with him all that well even in moments of tragedy. And you hit upon it, its an attention issue. Hes focused on the next thing and thats the next tweet or what the next cable news segment might be or you know sometimes an important meeting. But hes not always there in the moment. Aides have had to digest, you know, make the information when they try to brief him into the easily digestible thing whether its a chart, graphic or photos in order for him to intake that information. They know if its a lengthy meeting hes doing to tune out. Hes going to move on to the next thing. I think you see that both with internal meetings at the white house and also far more public moments where hes unable to really show a connection with a family thats in real grief here and his instinct is to simply flash a thumbs up because what he always does. Katty, this was a selfinflicted pr mistake. The press was kept out, and they released this themselves which suggests a complete lack of understanding about the situation that they were in. Yeah. And raises questions about empathy in that photo clearly. Still ahead massive immigration raids in mississippi left many children separated from their parents on the first day of school. Well talk to an expert who works with families who are impacted by separation. Morning joe is back in just a moment. Who got an awful skin condition. With uncontrolled moderatetosevere eczema, or atopic dermatitis, you feel like youre itching all the time. And you never know how your skin will look. 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With the xfi gateway, devices connected to your homes wifi are protected. Which helps keep people outside from accessing your passwords, credit cards and cameras. And people inside from accidentally visiting sites that arent secure. And if someone trys well let you know. Xfi advanced security. If its connected, its protected. Call, click, or visit a store today. President trump says hes being tough on sending a message. Young children are just wondering where their parents are. Joining us now director of Pediatric Behavioral Health center, miguelina german. And also with us the Vice President for advocacy at forward. Us, alida garcia. Thank you for joining us. What impact, dr. Garcia, does this have on these children . Some of them have had their parents returned to them now. But im assuming the trauma of having been separated that lasts a lot longer. Yes, well, thank you for having me. I think that what we have seen in mississippi is that this trauma impacts not only the children, the teachers who are having to triage in the classrooms, the children of parents who werent raided, who did not have classmates show up the next day, its a Lasting Impact that goes on for with toxic stress and other challenges that the children face. Doctor, i dont know whether you can answer this question or not, but it occurred to me almost immediately, when i heard of this ridiculous obscene story, actually uhhuh. Why arent any of the owners of these plans also arrested . That is an excellent question. And i think for the bulk of the consequences to fall on children who were coming home from school and experiencing panic and shock and terror. That they didnt know, when they would see their parents is going to cause both shortterm and longterm Mental Health challenges for these children. Let me ask you this, theres a way in which the country has produced enemies by way of its poses. By leaving people behind. By, in some ways, policies that are cruel, the purpose of the policy is cruel. To have children to have experienced what they experience, im a native of mississippi so this is hitting it me in a particularly hard way. How is this impacting their daily lives . Know theres the trauma experienced in the moment. Correct. And then the effect of having lived under a certain condition. Talk a little bit about the effects of this. Absolutely. This is happening in mississippi but its also happening in the bronx. So my team at montefiore has experienced this, and the consequence is this daily anxiety. Right. This chronic fear, every single day, that you are not sure if your mom and dad are going to come back home. And if you think about that, its really hard to learn how to do math or learn how to write an essay, if youre in school. And your brain is constantly exerting resources toward worry. And fear. And so that chronic toll is what ultimately, we believe, causes that longterm damage to children. And thats what you will often hear referred to as toxic stress. Its this type of fight or flighttype mechanism that we all have, when were in danger. But it doesnt turn off. So, if you think about a race car thats designed to go 200 miles an hour, a car can do that, for some time. But if its every day, every week, every month, and it goes on for years, eventually, the engine is going to start to break down. So, let me ask the question about power. The people affected are powerless. Years ago a black writer wrote a play called days of absence. The economy just collapses. Would that be a message to this country in the parents of the children that youre talking about just stay home. And nothing gets done. That is work, that is produced by undocumented illegal immigrants. Is there any way the parents can exert their power to keep this from happening again, do you think . Well, quite frankly, i think its up to the American People to exert their power. These families are marginalized family working in chicken processing plants in rural, mississippi. They need to make their wages in order to support their families. Its not only impacting them its impacting store owners in mississippi who recently said that their customer bases significantly dropped off because theyre too scared to go outside. We want the families to fight for themselves. But we need the rest of the American Public to believe its thought okay for these workplace raids to happen at all. That we dont want children abandoned sleeping in gyms. Dr. Herman, a facility in mississippi posted theyre having a job fair today to fill the slots of the people taken during the raids. The acting secretary of dhs expressed regret of the timing of it, it came at the same time that the president was going to be in el paso. Those in the white house have not backed away, saying there will be other raids like this. What sort of chilling effects does have this not just in mississippi but workers who were undocumented and send their children to school every day. They might not have to worry that another day they might not be reunited . Well, i can tell me you that the repercussions are happening everywhere. Ive had parents and my team has had parents come to us and say, my child is not sleeping. Daddy doesnt come home until third shift, and so, theyre staying up because theyre worried if they go to sleep somehow, their dad wont be coming through the door, because thats how children think. They have magical thinking. And in essence, children are across the country, if their families have a member who is undocumented. By suffering the effects of anxiety, potential diagnoses of posttraumatic stress disorder. I think the widespread impact cannot be underestimated. And it does mean you have kids who are not going to school, people feeling like they cant go to their work. Stress levels incredibly high with people texting each other saying, watch out theres a raid at that station. And rumors spreading. Its a hard time. Dr. Alina herman and copy dr. Garcia, thank you. Still ahead, while Jeffrey Epsteins victims seek justice, the president used the convicted sex offenders suicide to score points. Well discuss that. Its coming up on morning joe. Its meningitis b. And youre not there to help. While meningitis b is uncommon. Once symptoms appear, they can progress quickly and can be fatal. Sometimes within 24 hours. Before you send your teen to college. Make sure you help protect them. Talk to your teens doctor. About meningitis b vaccination. I went straight to ctca. After my mastectomy, i felt like part of my identity was being taken away. My team made me feel whole again. Cancer Treatment Centers of america. Appointments available now. 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But were also a company that controls hiv, fights cancer, repairs shattered bones, relieves depression, restores heart rhythms, helps you back from strokes, and keeps you healthy your whole life. From the day youre born we never stop taking care of you. And i dont add from thtrup the years. S. But what i do count on. Is boost® delicious boost® high protein nutritional drink has 20 grams of protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals. Boost® high protein. Be up for life. Semi conscious with marks on his neck. In his cell, at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in manhattan. Sometime in the last two days, according to two sources. He is now on suicide watch. Why wouldntly be on suicide watch before that . Yeah. That is the reaction nearly three weeks ago, the last time Jeffrey Epstein was found with marks on his necks or behind bars. Yet, over the weekend, he still wasnt being properly monitored and apparently, he took his own life. Will his victims ever get the justice they deserve . Good morning, welcome to montgomery montgomer morning joe. Its monday, august 12th. We have jonathan lemire. Professor at princeton university, nbc news correspondent stephanie gosk, and washington anchor for bbc america katty kay. One sure sign if someone could see something coming, if i saw something coming. As you can see from that clip, i saw something going. If joes captain obvious, if he saw this coming, anybody should have saw this coming. Mike, why didnt the Justice Department see this coming . Why didnt the white house see this coming . How did this happeny. Well, joe, the official story is the facility is understaffed. And weve known that its been understaffed for quite some time. Theres really no clear answer on monitoring, electronic monitoring. I dont think theres electronic monitoring in his control. He was alone in his cell which is against doj department of Justice Policy which is kind of a key question and has to be answered. The bottom line is, joe, the public, the American Public, is going to need answers as quickly as they can be provided to sort of put a blanket on all of these speculative theories and conspiracy theories that are abounding. And being given, you know, great length of life on twitter and other social media. We need answers. We need answers as soon as today. And unfortunately, doj has been very, very slow getting off the mark here, in providing the American Public with answers. This is both outrageous, unbelievable, and it tempts people to thinking that the worst has happened. That government has never run the level. And this is a fullblown conspiracy cloud that needs to be put to rest immediately. On the wall street journal editorial page wrote, this is one more reason why americans dont trust their government. Right. Jonathan lemire, youve got to give the president credit. He did jump into the issue immediately and took to twitter and got involved. What did he do . Well, the president has long trafficked in conspiracy theories. Hes of course at the forefront of the Birther Movement which he claim claimed barack obama is not from the United States which is a racist lie. And even before the incident, he talked about ted cruzs father being involved in the kennedy assassination. And he took to twitter and retweeted a couple of Conspiracy Theorys that suggested that his predecessor, bill clinton, perhaps, was involved with this death. The president himself didnt say these things. Hes quick to hide behind the idea its just a retweet. Hes done that in the past when hes put up inflammatory things. But i think this really needs to be focused on here. This is a moment in which the nation is very upset learning what epstein has done in decades of his live. And its come out which is a front page story again. We knew that donald trump knew him and bill clinton knew him. We dont know the extent of those relationships, we dont know what happened. But the president is using a moment of National Confusion. A lot of people, certainly, epsteins victims are being denied that justice. And he used that point to try to score political points against a predecessor and seemingly implicating him in a crime, including the woman who ran against him two years ago. And has threatened to use the Justice Department to exact political retribution. And perhaps even arrest her going forward. Its another sort of gulling moment from the president. Certainly, there are lots of questions about the death. The guards are supposed to check every 30 minutes and didnt. And yesterday, the examiner put out a report saying the cause is pending. Thats standard. But theres more tests coming, but its not going to put to ease all of the questions that we have. And katty kay, the president does Anthony Scaramuccis work for him when scaramucci suggests that the president is getting worse. Something that Jeffrey Goldberg wrote in the atlantic last week. You look at jonathan lemires article on the Associated Press with people talking about how the president s management style has become even more outrageous unmoored. And then the president caps all of that off by accusing the clintons of murder. It does just seem to keep getting worse. And the president seems to have become more and more unbalanced. The president has 63 million twitter followers, so when he retweets conspiracy theories that is reaching a very wide audience. He knows exactly what hes doing. Sometimes, in the past, hes suggested that his he tweets as he calls it are problematic. But he carries on doing it. He carries on doing it in this case with taxi around the world initially saying it was terrorism. Its just not helpful, hes fuelling the flames of conspiracy. This morning, there are more question than answers following the apparent suicide of Jeffrey Epstein. Guards doing rounds found him dead within his cell in manhattan at 6 30 a. M. Multiple sources briefed told nbc news the checks on inmates are supposed to take place every 30 minutes or so. But there are questions if there was a delay the night epstein died. According to nbc news, epstein was not on suicide watch at the time of his death, even though he was found unconscious in his cell with marks around his neck just three weeks ago. Sources tell nbc that epstein underwent a psychiatric investigation and they cleared him of a suicide watch on are around july 29th. Epstein was supposed to have another inmate in the cell but the jail had recently transferred his krel macell ma allowed epstein to be housed alone. The local president for union staffers told the Washington Post the two directions officers a siassigned to watch the Detention Center were working overtime, one forced to do by management. The other for his fourth or fifth consecutive day. Joe, looks like there were issues in the jail but, of course, so many questions about why there were so many incide e coincidences for him being left left. So many coincidences. And stephanie gosk, theyre acting as if, saying, oh, well, were overstaffed, theyre acting as if this prison is just one of many prisoners. And not somebody who actually has information on president s, on princes, on governors, on senators, on harvard law professors. I mean, there are so many powerful people who may have gone just extraordinarily terrible things. But it seems that the Justice Department had a special need, a special interest in keeping this man safe, so we could so finally, justice delayed could be justice served. But, thats, of course, not going to happen. So, tell us what youve learned about exactly how this came about. Sure, joe. I mean, its not an exaggeration to say that Jeffrey Epstein was the most highprofile inmate in federal custody at the time. And its important to drill down on that time line. If you consider the fact that he was found in his jail cell injured on july 25th. And that he was, according to our sources, put on suicide watch. Were then told by july 29th, he was taken off of suicide watch. And because of conversations that ive had with particularly one former federal warden at a number of prisons including the sister facility in brooklyn, the only way that happens, to be taken off of suicide watch, would be if a psychologist or psychiatrist determined and spoke with a Program Coordinator at the facility. And they decided that he should come off that watch. It would have had to have been a decision made by executives there at the prison. And this former official that i spoke to said, obviously, with an inmate like Jeffrey Epstein, you are going to proceed with the utmost caution. In everything that you do. Now, on suicide watch, he would have been in a special jumpsuit that would have prevented suicide. He also would have been watched 24 7. That would be eyes on him 24 7. Hes taken off. He was then put back in general population. And our understanding is those half hour checks are theyre not specific times. Theyre arbitrary. So, conceivably, within an hour, he could have been checked at the beginning of the hour, or perhaps checked at the end of the hour. It still would have given him plenty of time to take his own life. Even talking whether the guards were there or not. Even if they were doing what they were supposed to be doing which remains a question, there still was plenty of time to, they say, hang himself in his cell, joe. Lets bring in state attorney for Palm Beach County, dave vandberg. Dave, how does Something Like this happen . 30minute rotations . Onehour rotations. Heres a guy, first of all, that a lot of people wanted dead. Heres a guy who, obviously, would you think, understaood tht he had nothing to live for. He had actually reason to commit suicide. But others had reason to try to get to him and have him killed as well. Isnt this a prisoner, that you, as a state attorney, would make sure that prison officials had their eyes on 24 hours a day, seven days a week . Especially if youre going to get from him evidence involving possibly president s, past and current, a prince . U. S. Senators. Governors. Harvard law professors and billionaires. This is outrageous. What would you do in this situation . Would you say, oh, you know what, check him every hour or so . It is pretty shocking that the most highprofile inmate in the entire world who apparently tried to commit suicide three weeks ago was allowed to do so. There are supposedly cameras in place and hope flip those cameras are operational and will tell us a lot. If they are not, even i would succumb to the theory of outside influences. As a prosecute, i deal with facts. And i think its suicide amid multiple layers of human error, where you have overworked individuals guarding him. One of them had five overtime work days in a row so that might explain why they didnt check on him every 30 minutes. But it doesnt explain why the facility would have taken his cell mate away. And thats a guard against suicide. To me, there are a lot of Unanswered Questions. Until we get more facts and autopsy results and the video, im going to subscribe to the suicide theory by multiple layers of human errors. Still to come on morning joe, how the el paso gunman echoed the words of some of the Trump Supporters biggest stars in the media. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. The weathers perfect. 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From the day youre born we never stop taking care of you. Can the past help you write the future . From the day youre born can you feel calm in the eye of a storm . Can you do more with less . Can you raise the bar while reducing your footprint . For our 100 years weve been answering the questions of today to meet the energy needs of tomorrow. Southern company this is not migrants coming into the country. This is nothing short of an invasion. Democrats who want to replace you, the american voters, with newly amnestied citizens. This is a governmentsanctioned invasion of our country. An invasion. The New York Times is taking a deep dive into the conservative media world and found that the confessed shooter echoed many of the words of its most prominent stars. The times found striking overlap when comparing his 2300word diatribe to transcripts on the right. For example, the confessed el paso shooter complained about the hispanic invasion of texas. That echoes the language of fox news host Tucker Carlson, Laura Ingraham, and rush preliminary baugh and ann coulter saying, quote, you can shoot invaders. According to the times, references to an immigrant invasion appeared on more than 300 different fox news broadcasts. Joining us now, one of the New York Times reporters on that story. Jeremy peters. Jeremy, its striking, the language referenced on the front page of the New York Times today. And the link to the el paso shooter. The results, though, are a very shorttime line, in many instances from the number of times that these words have been used on fox. We just heard a few instances of them. And sometimes, a very short time line, between that language, that type of language, and tweets from the president of the United States, directly reflecting the language. Yeah. Exactly, mike. Its not a oneway street here. Sometimes, the president s words inform fox news hosts. Sometimes, the fox news hosts informs the president and he goes out and repeats them. The result is this toxic discourse which its now become normal to refer to migrants as invaders as some Hostile Force that need to be taken out and stop teped at the border. And in the words of one pundit, maybe even shot. And how timing this has become, is viking when we reviewed five years of transcripts from several News Networks and radio programs. Talk radio on the right. Where its not only a regular occurrence to refer to them as an invading force. But also that the motivation behind their coming here is not apt to escape the horrible conditions in their homeland. But its to replace white americans. And thats where this intersects with the el paso killers manifesto. When you look at this talk of replacement, which is also startling common in right wing media and has great overlap with the manifesto. Hey, jeremy, obviously, the president s twitter account and fox news and the words the biggest platforms for pushing the language. Talk more about where else you can find this . Certainly places like breitbart or sinclair, in audiences particularly only where someone like the shooter in el paso clearly spent a lot of time and posted his manifesto in the hours before opening fire. Thats right, jonathan, this is not exclusive to any one particular right wing outlet. This was broad. This was across almost everywhere we looked on the right from the media. Whether sinclair, fatalk shows like rush limbaughs, and the drudge report, youre talking about websites, shows, talk shows, on the radio, on television that have the potential to reach tens of millions of people a week. Coming up on morning joe, the president says theres no political appetite to ban militarystyle assault weapons. This morning, joe biden is out with a new oped explaining whys that simply not true. 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Democratic frontrunner joe biden is out with a new oped calling for the assault weapons ban to be reinstated, arguing that it worked. Joe also pointed out that there was polling showing that 70 of americans support the ban on militarystyle weapons which was enacted in 1994, but allowed to expire ten years later. The Vice President wrote in the New York Times, when you have that kind of broad public support for legislation that will make everyone safer, and it still cant get through the senate, the problem is with weakwilled leaders who care more about their Campaign Coffers than children in coffins. He continued, theres so much we can do. Practical, sensible steps to draw broad support among the American People. But we will see only more and deadlier shootings if we continue to dodge the core issue of unregulated assault weapons and highcavity magazines in our communities. And, mike, its a powerful oped, that happens to be backed up by overwhelming polling. Weve seen since newtown, a complete transformation in the polling. And in the politicians have been slow, the republican politicians, especially have been slow, catching up to the public. But the public is moving so far ahead of them right now, i dont know that theyre going to have any choice but to start passing sensible gun safety legislation. And whether in a church or a synagogue or a walmart, a school or a Country Music festival. Well, joe, youre right, youre right. But how long have we been talking about these items . How long . Joe bidens oped piece in the times is absolutely correct from the establishment of the crime bill in 94 with the assault weapons, it can prove it made an impact. He also suggesting amendments to that law that can be enforced now, implemented now, smart gun technology, things like that. But, again, i revert back to the question ive just posed, how long have we been talking about these things . Weve had children killed babies killed in classrooms in connecticut. Weve had church shootings. Multiple church shootings. Synagogue shootings. El paso, dayton, we talk and we talk and we talk. And the United States senate sits there looking at overwhelming evidence in the polls you just referenced, people favor the establishment of new tougher laws. And nothing ever gets done. People getting shot up in movie theaters, on College Campuses, in Elementary Schools right before christmas. At Country Music fefe iic festi nevada. The accumulation of all of these events have gotten americans to say enough is enough. And lets revisit those poll numbers, by the way. Quinnipiac poll from march shows that 93 of voters support requiring background checks for all gun buyers. Support, get this, republicans, is 89 . Among people who are members of the Republican Party. And 87 among gun owners. That means 9 out of 10 republicans and about 9 out of 10 gun owners, like me, support an expanded background check. Doesnt mean they dont value the Second Amendment, like me. I value the Second Amendment. But have been called for this for some time. And been viciously attacked by nra tv ads, when, in fact, what ive said all along is that republicans and gun owners agree with me and not the nra not their three lobbyists in washington, d. C. That are giving trying to get 6 million mansions and trying you know, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on italian suits. Now, theres also a reason for the Morning Consult poll, found that 70 of all voters would back a ban on militarystyle weapons. And that includes a majority of republicans. So, jonathan lemire, this is an issue whose time has come, certainly on background checks. But even on militarystyle assault weapons that are used in the majority of these mass shootings. Even a majority of republicans now want there to be a ban on those type of weapons. A ban on those type of weapons doesnt even seem to be in discussion right now. The democrats in the past have passed gun control measures, certainly. The wait is son the republican senate. In particular the Senate Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell who has close ties to the nra and has refused to act on it. Ed president leaving for his vacation on the south lawn did want to talk about it. He spoke in vague terms. He seemed to be throwing something behind passing background checks. He made two claims. Mcconnell has support. Granted, mcconnell himself hasnt said that. The president , shall we say, is sometimes an unreliable narrator, when it comes to other members of his Republican Party and he said he spoke to Wayne Lapierre at nra. The nra is willing to get on board, but again, according to the president , the nra has not said that. Certainly, joe, as you just suggested, the nra is in a weakened position right now. Wayne lapierre is engulfed in a number of scandals. This would seem to be the moment, if the president really wanted to go to bat for this, he could push forward. He could provide cover for republicans because we know the president has overwhelmingly positive poll numbers within his own party, he could do this. The question is, will he . Will his Attention Span remain on this . Remember, he made promises after the parkland shooting to do the same and never followed through. Coming up, hes the only president ial candidate who has won statewide in the trump state. Our team hit the campaign trail with governor steve bullock. And that interview is coming up when morning joe returns. Depend® fitflex underwear for all day fun. Features maximum absorbency, ultra soft fabric and new beautiful designs for your best comfort and protection guaranteed. Lifes better when youre in it. Be there with depend®. 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With us now staff writer at the atlantic van newkirk, he writes an article entitled this land is our land. Katty, its a pass naturesing story. Yeah, in part, van writes, unlike their counterparts two or three generations ago, black people working and living in the mississippi delta today have been almost completely uprooted from their soil. Owners of black farms, black and white alike have been buffeted by larger economic forces. What happened to landowners in the south and particularly in the delta is distinct. It was propelled not only by economic change but also white racism and local white power. The history of the delta suggests that any conversation about reparations might need to be more qualitative and intangible than it is. And it must consider the land. That is such an interesting take. What youre talking about i think a lot of people might think about as ancient history. But actually, is this much more recent what happened to black people in the delta. Right, i focus on a time period that begins pretty much in 1950 when the theft of black land occurs. Especially in the deep south, we have lots of gains, voting rights, signature rights. In the 1950s, black folks lose millions of acres of land. What your conclusion is this is active racism and white power . Right. So one of the main mechanisms by which people lost that land was through federal loans that they were denied. Or through active discrimination through tax asassessors who gav him high tax assessments on their land. It drove almost the entirety of black folks into farming out of it. And took 12 million acres, somewhere north, hundreds of billions, perhaps trillions of dollars from those folks. Hi there, thank you for such a wonderful piece. Let me ask you this question, weve talked i lot about the history of the country and in some way the way american innocence works. What is the significance of writing this piece at this moment . To shed light until this moment. Talk about that for me. Well, theres a personal reason for me, my family is from the mississippi delta. So im blessed to be able to ask questions about their history for a living but also were talking about reparations right now. We are talking about the larger genesis of this racial wealth gap. We are critical in ways we were not critical before, in how the social economic outcomes of black once formed. And were being more honest about where they came from. And i dont think we have been necessarily honest or as investigative on the genesis of those things in the south. T on the reason black people left to go on the great migration and wound up in cities like baltimore were redlined. I dont know if we have had the same cultivation as the Civil Rights Movement of the counter of the Civil Rights Movement which was based on stealing land. I think what ive been able to do, people working on this problem, with black farmers in the last several months, what this line of inquiry is doing, it is, i believe, giving a deeper and truer history of that racial wealth gap. And also providing more space for conversation about reparations, about figuring out exactly what policy needs to happen right now. Right. I think its important, too, in terms of offering kind of a story that accounts for, as you rightly say, a current situation. Its not the case that the wealth gap is a result of some cultural pathology. Its not the result of something inherently wrong with black people as such. But this is the effect of policy choices. Of people doing certain things in order to accrue certain gains. So it seems to me its a crucial intervention where were talking about race at this level. Experiencing it at this level of intensity. So, it seems to me, its important to ask this question, vann, how will it help us move forward . Right . So it offers us information to dispel the innocence, but how does it open up space for to us move into a way of being otherwise as a country . Well, two things. I believe, number one, right now, as candidates are putting together policy agendas, as more and more folks have an appetite for thinking about policy solutions to these, as you mentioned land, an idea of perhaps land reform. Of creating a Community Land trust. Of all these ways not just for home ownership, but food over which they eat. And part of the bias for mee, a lot of this conversation misses out on the black folks who still live in the south. And the reason why i picked the mississippi delta is because thats a place that often its a carcaricature, right. Its people take this and say, its a terrible place to live. Its the bottom. And they do not make the correlation. These are the place where is you had black folks lose their land, their livelihoods, at the highest rahigh est rates, and i want to bring the conversation back to that. Vann, you and eddie and i have something in common. We all spent our childhoods or some of our childhoods in mississippi. And obviously, the situation for black americans there has been extraordinarily challenging through the years. But eddie talked about us being in this country moment, certainly, weve had a lot of discussions about race. And it seems that the president and the president s defenders, even over the past several weeks, have said, well, the president cant be a racist because right now, black unemployment is at its lowest rate ever. And black americans have more Economic Opportunity in 2019 than they ever have. What would you say to donald trump and his supporters when that was their retort to the race imthat maism that many of some of the words that the president says everyday . I say, take a trip to the delta. Go to greenwood, mississippi. Go tell the black folks living there, who even in red line communities, go there, and tell them exactly what you believe to be true, what youre talking about, opportunity being the highest for black people ever. Go to those neighborhoods. See what its like. Be honest, tell the folks to their faces exactly what youre saying on tv and see what the reactions you get youre going to be. I guarantee, its not going to be people who are, oh, yeah, were doing all right. Things are great. People are living and trying to make the most out of their lives right now. And i can tell you, its not just this white house, to be honest, they have not seen an ally in the white house for quite some time. And that includes barack obama . I believe lots of people are looking at barack obama as part of this larger legacy of the federal government being unable to not necessarily not have the will in all cases. I think obama did have a will. He did preside over the big black farmers lawsuit. But you look at how inadequate those responses have been over time. And people struggled through obama, they struggled through trump. All right. Well be reading your piece in the new issue of the atlantic. Vann newkirk, thank you. We appreciate it. Coming up, our latest candidate checkup takes us to montana and the latest president ial candidate steve bullock. Keep it here on morning joe. Most people think a button is just a button. That a speaker is just a speaker. Or that the journey cant be the destination. Most people havent driven a lincoln. Discover the lincoln approach to craftsmanship at the lincoln summer invitation. Right now, get 0 apr on all 2019 lincoln vehicles plus no payments for up to 90 days. Only at your lincoln dealer. Can the past help you write the future . Plus no payments for up to 90 days. Can you feel calm in the eye of a storm . Can you do more with less . 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Morning joe medical contributor dr. Dave campbell paid a visit to montana governor and democratic president ial hopeful steve bullock. We flew to governor steve bullocks home state of montana him on his morning run. I wanted to learn more about how this 53yearold married father of three recharges his batteries on the campaign trail. Having run over 12 marathons so far, running, hunting, and fishing in the state he was born in is his happy place. Its something that is kind of all for me. Its not just about fitness, like this is the time that i can be alone. I can think big thoughts. You know, maybe speeches have kind of been written on a run kind of in the sub conscious along the way. Reporter youre thin, fit, 53. How long are you going to run . Hopefully reporter your whole life. Hopefully all the way until im no longer vertical. It is not only physical health but really for Mental Health. Even my coworkers can tell the days i take a run or i dont. So to be a better governor, a better father, and husband reporter your family can tell. This is part of what keeps me who i am. Reporter this president ial candidate is a Columbia Law School graduate and former attorney general of montana. He was electd governor as a democrat in a red state. He expanded medicaid with a Republican Legislature and is passionate about getting dark money out of politics focusing on building off of the Affordable Care act his health care goals for america have been deeply shaped by his personal experience with his son and his father. Our son, who is now 12, within 24 hours of his birth he had a heart attack. We had great Health Insurance. This 600,000 that went into his first month of his life, we call him our miracle baby, no family should have to struggle with those things or what could be on the back end when youre just helping your son stay alive. My father had passed away from lung cancer. You think of Home Health Care providers. Were all becoming care givers as our parents age and weve got to figure out that support system effectively from cradle to grave that assists along the way. Reporter trying to strike a balance right now between being a very busy governor, running for president , youve got a family to take care of. How do you strike the balance there . You try to be a hundred percent as governor, a hundred percent as a candidate, hundred percent as a husband, and a hundred percent as a father. And you dont want to let any of those balls drop because the impact reporter what is your favorite thing to do on the weekend with your family . The down time with just my family where im not governor. Im not a president ial candidate. Reporter youre anything but that. Im just that dorky dad. Reporter yeah. And that time is sort of both what keeps me balanced and recharges me for the next week. Reporter and these next weeks, coming off of the most recent debates they will be plenty intense for the governor. He is determined to bring what worked in montana to washington. We sat down with him at his Favorite Local brewery. Thank you. Thank you very much. Cheers. Cheers. Governor hey there. How are you . Reporter what do you love about this state . I love were surrounded by mountains. You can get out and run in those hills. The public lands, streams. I also love the people. I mean, folks here would do anything for the neighbor. So were very caring people that hold me accountable certainly but, also, you know, care about our communities. Reporter how can a president in todays climate pass a Health Care Plan that both sides of the aisle agree on and all americans benefit from . I mean, by making it not about the politics but more about peoples lives i think we share more in common than would divide us. If you make your case not just in d. C. But out to america or the people, i think its possible. Because ive seen it done here. Reporter what would you say to the nearly 160 million americans maybe 180 million americans that are getting their Health Insurance through their employer . At times you might have some frustration because your deductibles are too high. Your out of pocket is too high. Lets improve that. Lets not completely tear apart the whole system and think we can start brand new. I think thats what a lot of folks are talking about. First of all, at times i think d. C. Is a place where you give speeches. I dont have that luxury. Ill have people come up when i have my son at a grocery store, somebody will tell me their personal story. Were a lot closer to the ground as governors. What ill tell those folks is, im not going to completely disrupt your lives and take your Health Insurance away. Lets figure out ways to make it more accessible and affordable. Reporter those diseases of despair, whether overdose, addiction, suicide, how, as president , can you rein in that epidemic thats devastating the country . Im commanderinchief of the national guard. At times ive felt so helpless seeing an epidemic of suicide. But i think there are things that you can do. First to get rid of the stigma. You never leave when your fellow soldier is on the battle field so if you see one of your fellow soldiers struggling, say something. You know, we make folks that join the military make a commitment to us and we got to make a commitment to take care of their physical and Mental Health. Reporter how are you going to beat donald trump . I have no doubt i could beat donald trump. I do well not only on the coasts but in a lot of this country that often feels left behind. I think you beat him by making it less about him and more about americans. Reporter what is his nickname for you going to be . I dont know. Maybe small state steve. Maybe the guy from the mountains. Reporter how can you take what you have learned and are doing here in this state and help translate it across the country . What ive learned as governor is i got to work with people. Sometimes even people i dont always agree with. Ive got to make it more than about the political food fight of the day. And ive got to figure out ways to not just give speeches but impact peoples lives. And i think what ive been able to do here i can d. C. Could learn a lot from montana. Yes, they could. I tell you what, that was fascinating. Dave always seems to get the best out of these president ial candidates and they relax and just a great, compelling interview. You can read it on our site joe. Msnbc. Com. Time for final thoughts. Mike barnicle let me begin with you. Steve bullock. What an impressive candidate he seems to be like a throwback to a different age. A guy who could actually appeal to people in red state america and blue state america but i dont know if i could ever trust anybody thats run that many marathons. That bothered me, too, joe. You know, this health kick. Its calm down. Pump the brakes. Stay home. Watch tv more. You know, one of the reasons is he talks about america and americans and he is a governor. He is used to making decisions every day and he knows americans. My final thought, joe, is people we know, all of us here know, good people i guess, many of them, some of them, attended these million dollar, 12 million fundraisers over the weekend. And i get the tax cuts. I get the regulations. I understand that. Im not of that school but i understand it. But at some point, these people writing 250,000 checks for donald trump should maybe pause and think about the soul of america and what is happening to this country and stop writing those checks. Jonathan lamire, final thoughts . Joe, the president is on vacation in bedminister, new jersey this week. He wont appear before any cameras. We dont expect to see him this week. He hasnt tweeted yet this morning but im sure he will at some point. Aides are always nervous when he leaves the white house and heads to maralago or in this case bedminister when he has more access to his friends and less to his staff. It has led to rather dramatic moments, not just of course his response to charlottesville but his improvised fire and fury comments about north korea two summers ago. I know white house aides are certainly concerned as to what the week ahead may bring. Joe, the through line of our show today from epstein to the black farmers in mississippi has been the negative effects of selfishness on our democracy. It is eroding the core of who we are. Greed and selfishness is destroying this country and we need to understand that is not a red or a bluish unite but an issue that cuts to the heart of who we take ourselves to be. It certainly does. Katty kay final thoughts . I spent way too many years in the middle east growing up, a cult bed of conspiracy theories but even i have questions about what happened in that cell and how Jeffrey Epstein was allowed to commit suicide when he should have been on the permanent watch. Will those girls who have been waiting for over a decade for some kind of justice, will the prosecution still push ahead and try and find some of that justice for them . Let us hope so. There does seem to be bipartisan outrage. From democrats and republicans alike that the Justice Department allowed Jeffrey Epstein to be alone and possibly, we say possibly kill himself. The coroner still hasnt drawn any final conclusions. We will wait for that before determining exactly what happened in that jail cell. It has democrats and republicans alike very upset. That does it for us this morning. Thank you so much for watching. We really appreciate it. Stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. Thanks much. Hi there. It is monday, august 12th. Heres whats happening now. Multiple investigations now under way to figure out how Jeffrey Epstein, an accused sex trafficker, and a registered sex offender, ended up dead after apparently taking his own life inside a jail cell over the weekend. The new York City Medical Examiners Office said sunday they do not have an official cause of death but havent found any signs of foul play. Meanwhile, there are a ton of questions about how exactly all of