Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20190522

And author of the playbook, and contributor jake sherman. Nancy pelosis trip to the white house today isnt her only high stakes meeting today. Shes set to meet with her rank and file as some president ial candidates are calling for impeachment proceedings against the president. Heres part of what the House Speaker told me on monday. This isnt about politics. Its not about passion, not about prejudice, not about polit politics. It is about patriotism and the presentation of the facts. So the American People can see why were going down a certain path. And it is i dont know. I feel very confident that the American People know that they deserve to know the truth. Thats what we want to present to them, in a way that they dont perceive to be without the presentation of the facts. So were going to get to the impeachment debate just ahead. Theres so much with that. Plus, were joined by congresswoman katie porter, who had this exchange on capitol hill with trump cabinet secretary, dr. Ben carson. Keep in mind as youre listening to this, hes the secretary of housing and urban development. Id also like you to get back to me, if you dont mind, to explain the disparity in re orchestrates. Do you know what an reo . . Oreo. Not an oreo. Reo. Real estate. Whats the o stand for . Organization . Real estate owned. Thats what happens when a property goes to foreclosure. We call it an reo. Oh, my god. Willie, help me out here. He didnt know one of the key terms that is used in his department. This is that trump pick for secretary of housing and urban development. I know we have so much other news to get to, but i just want to put a frame around that. Help me understand what happened in that exchange. I but, wait, theres more. Go ahead. On the one hand, it was funny and absurd, and it went viral because he thought she was talkingcookies. But the other hand, he is the secretary of urban housing and development. This is what you get when the standard for appointments in an administration is how many nice things you say about the president. This is has nice as he can get. It was funny but also really disturbing. Yup. He did put a person into this into hud, one of the most important agencies, especially for low income folks, and had no experience doing it, mika. Absolutely none. He didnt know anything about housing, and he didnt know anything about running a large organization. Yet, to willies point, there he was, praising the president , so he became hud secretary. Its incredible. Were going to be talking to the congresswoman later. Also, the question was pertaining to the number of foreclosures, people suffering, losing their homes. He thinks that shes talking about an oreo cookie. Thats where we are. We are going to begin with a draft of a confidential Internal Revenue Service Legal memo, revealing President Trumps tax returns must be given to Congress Unless he claims executive privilege. The memo contradicts the white houses reason for denying the request for President Trumps tax returns. Trump has refused to turn over six years of returns but has not evoked executive privilege. Mnuchin denied the request, arguing legislators have no legislative purpose for requesting them. According to the tenpage irs memo, the disclosure of tax returns to the committee is mandatory, requiring the secretary to disclose returns and return information requested by the tax writing chairs. It also directly rejects the reason mnuchin cites for withholding the returns for lawmakers. Adding, that only the only basis the agencys refusal to comply with the subpoena would be the invocation of the doctrine of executive privilege. The irs told the post the memo was prepared last fall, when democrats had made it clear they would seek copies of trumps tax returns under a 1924 law requiring the treasury secretary to provide them to congress. However, it is unclear who wrote and reviewed the document. The agency says the memo was never forwarded to the Treasury Department. Willie, again, a more back and forth about trumps tax returns. I guess the big question here will be, what happens next . Does this memo mean something actually has to happen . Right. Does Steve Mnuchin have to respond to this in some way . Lets bring in one of the reporters behind posting this document. Policy reporter for the Washington Post, jeff stein. Lets talk through this a little bit. This memo was written, you report, in the fall at irs by a lawyer, but never made it to Treasury Department. Is it fair to say treasury secretary Steve Mnuchin was not aware of the memo and didnt know about this policy . That is what the Treasury Department told us in a statement, that mnuchin never reviewed the memo. Well try to get to the bottom of that. Mnuchin is testifying on the hill today, and i am very confident that lawmakers will try to press him and ask that very question that you just posed, which is a good one. So is this, jeff, binding in any way . Is this an opinion written by a lawyer, or is this an irs policy that will have implications for, say, treasury secretary mnuchin responding to a subpoena from a Congressional Committee to get these tax returns out . No. Mnuchin is not bound by this decision or this memo at all. He is free to make his own opinion, and he canov overrule e judgment of subordinates at the irs. Some have conferred with his decision, not to give the tax returns. The document we obtained is certain to be used by democrats in their lawsuit in federal court, seeking to compel the release of trumps tax returns to them. Hey, jake sherman, how worried do you figure Steve Mnuchin is about this memo, considering the administrations policy clearly is delay and deny on every aspect of congressional requests . Yeah, jeff and joshs story is terrific because it gives a peek inside an agency thats holding onto documents, despite what appears to be a clear language in the statue. I will say this, all of these things, and this plays into what mika said at the top about impeachment, all these document requests are going to be settled in court. Thats becoming more and more evident. That is the backbone of Nancy Pelosis strategy when it comes to impeachment, as she talked about with mika in that interview. All these issues will be resolved by a judge. We saw it last week. Pelosi this morning is going behind closed doors with her lawmakers to discuss all the successes they anticipate that theyll have, and that they have already had in court. I think everything, until possibly, by the way, the Supreme Court. This could go pretty high. As we know, trump likes to put things off and take things to the highest Authority Court wise. Will procedural lodge complai complaints, ask for appeals, and all those things. I think this will be decided by somebody high than the irs or Steve Mnuchin. Well, this administration brings stonewalling to a whole new level because they just say no, no, and no to everything. So if this goes to the courts, the question is going to be, what will be the timeline, especially if there are so many efforts to try and stop the process along the way . Could this drag out so long that the American People dont get a realtime sense of whats really going on. Lets bring in professor of practice and distinguished scholar at residence at New York University school of law, bob bauer. He served as white House Counsel to president obama. Thanks for being on the show. The memo says the only basis the agencys refusal to comply with the committees subpoena would be the invocation of the doctrine of executive privilege. What would be the grounds for that and, again, can the white house do that and say no . I would think the answer would be yes. In truth, im not sure at all what it means to say that the administration could or the president could invoke executive privilege to prevent the release of the returns. The statute, which as you pointed out earlier, has been on the books for some time, amended again in 1976, speaks in mandatory terms. The secretary shall furnish the requested information. There are designated Congressional Committees, including the chief of staff of the joint Tax Committee, that has the authority under this statute to request the returns. Congress has made a judgment there. It isnt clear in what context or what way the president could defeat this mandatory requirement with a claim of privilege. Maybe there are some circumstances around some aspects of the returns that perhaps the irs has in mind that the president could use the privilege to defeat the request. Im not sure what it would be. It looks to me like there could be so many caveats. This is an administration that will look for them and seize upon them and stop the process. Well one thing i would add is the hold on. Hold on, jeff. Bob, thats for you first, then, jeff, ill go to you. Bob, what do you make about the fact that i moan, the pattern of this administration is to stymie, to say no, to find a way out. So youve just mentioned that theres so many potential caveats that you dont even know, in terms of looking at this process and the law, how the law applies here. Are we looking at months and years before we get anything out of this administration in terms of tax returns or any type of information . Yes. I mean, i cant speak to each and every instance, how easy itd be for the administration to hold out, but without a doubt, if this all goes to litigation, absolutely, given the various stages of the appellate process it could go through, this could consume a significant amount of time, well into next year and beyond. There you go. Jeff, what happens next then . Its a big question and i dont know. I wanted to make a quick point that, you know, the doctrine of executive privilege is about internal Administration Policies and deliberations. Some of the returns that democrats are seeking are from before trump was even president. Perhaps thats why treasury secretary mnuchin has not, so far, cited executive privilege and invoked it. He has not turned to that yet. Perhaps thats part of the reason why. All right. Washington post jeff stein, thank you for your reporting. The tension between House Democrats and the Trump Administration is escalating after former white House Counsel don mcgahn defied a congressional subpoena to testify before congress yesterday. There was that empty chair. The House Judiciary Committee subpoenaed former White House Communications director hope hicks, along with annie donaldson, mcgahns former chief of staff. Mcgahn had been scheduled to appear before the committee yesterday morning, but he skipped the hearing after being directed by President Trump to ignore the subpoena. President took it upon himself to intimidate a witness who has a legal obligation to be here today. This conduct is not remotely acceptable. Let me be clear, this committee will hear mr. Mcgahns testimony, even if we have to go to court to secure it. We will not allow the president to prevent the American People from hearing from this witness. Bob bauer, id like to get back to tax law for a second. I realize tax law can be very arcane, and every lobbyist in washington has a semicolon or clause in tax law that has been written over the past 20 years. What if this subpoena to the Treasury Department, to the secretary treasurer, for six years of Donald Trumps taxes, what if it were to end in the year 2016, when he was not an elected official, he was not president of the United States . How could he ever invoke executive privilege when the request was for tax returns from when he was a private citizen . Again, im not sure in what context with respect to what considerations on what record the executive privilege would be invoked. Im not clear about that at all. Im not saying it cant be done. There are lawyers who devote Significant Energy to devising arguments on how it applies to particular circumstances. Those arguments have to be evaluated on a case by case basis. That underscores the point mika made earlier, this could be a protracted legal food fight. Susan, going back to don mcgahn, the sound we set up there with mika, we had the chairman jerry nadler saying moc began wi mcgahn will testify one way or the other. Theyre saying, were not going to answer subpoenas. Well instruct people not to testify. Well invoke executive privilege. Well put up the stone wall. What r you going to do about it . If you were a democrat in a leadership position, nancy pelosi has been careful about the question of impeachment, saying lets slow down and review the facts, but democrats are getting restless in the caucus now. They should be. Its been over a month since the Mueller Report became public. At this point, i think it falls upon the democrats to do something about it. If they feel that there are reasons to impeach the president , if theres things, especially in the second part of that report that are impeachable offenses, go do it. I say this as a republican who called on other republicans in the senate to do the right thing and vote against the president and not authorize the Emergency Action for the Border Security about a month ago. They have to go do their job, and they are frustrated. Just this week, we heard it could take months or years. They should be acting now. Theres got to be a mechanism for more real time oversight and accountability. As the Trump Administration continues to stonewall investigations, a growing number of democrats are pushing for impeachment. I believe that we have come to the time of impeachment. I think that, at a certain point, this is no longer about politics, but this is about upholding the rule of law. Over 30 of the president s associates were indicted by the mueller probe. His Campaign Chairman is in prison right now. Dont tell me theres not enough to discuss and debate impeachment. Yes, there was an impeachment inquiry, id support it. The president of the United States of America Needs to be impeached. Where do we end up if we do that . Thats the question. Im still mowing it over. Ill talk to my colleagues on the floor in a few minutes. Im getting there. Wow. The mounting pressure to impeach is underscoring divisions within the democratic party. According to the New York Times, a sign pelosi senses her caucus is growing restless, shes called a wednesday morning meeting to update lawmakers on the status and the strategy behind the houses investigation. That will happen today. People involved in the investigations tell the times that Speaker Pelosi is also approved an escalation of tactics, sort of impeachment, to try and turn the tables. Jake sherman, i guess i ask you what elijah asked in his sound bite, which is, you know, where do we go from there, if we get there . Thats probably what nancy pelosi is considering, as well. Obviously, this would make much more sense if there were republicans on board, more than just amash. Yeah, and if there were republicans. Theres not one republican in the senate who is interested in impeachment and who is even showing any openness to impeachment. Thats another reality. At the top of playbook, we lay out pelosis strategy, which is to highlight all of the documents she is in court trying to get, all of the steps shes taken. Shes concerned, and her allies are concerned, the people that work for her are concerned, that a quick impeachment right now would undermine their ability to get documents. Remember, impeachment isnt just a magical key that will open a box of documents that are otherwise unavailable to congress. I mean, impeachment is just another step forward, and it is going to continue this fight. Now, they believe that theres just 25 democrats who have publicly said they should impeach the president. Thats still like 10 of the democratic caucus. This isnt widespread right now. Yes, some of her leadership have said they want to impeach the president , but hoyer, clyburn, the top leaders dont want to do it at this point. Take this with a grain of salt, but allies believe if democrats impeach the president , theyll lose the house in 2020 and lose the white house in 2020. Thats what they believe, i think. Yeah. Thats the issue. Willie, the minute they start impeachment proceedings, can you see President Trump, what he will do on the National Stage with that, in front of rallies . I mean, he will make this his chaos road show. Well, weve been that is something to keep in mind. Yeah, weve been talking about this for a long time. Although the facts may lead democrats to impeachment, it is a fight donald trump and the white house would love to have. Remember it is a dead end in the republicancontrolled senate, where he would not be convicted. Obviously, weve seen how republicans have fallen in line behind President Trump. Jake, you anticipated my question to you, which is, really, it is still a small minority of democrats supporting impeachment. Something like two dozen coming out publicly. Nancy pelosi, jeffries, others in leadership saying, lets pump the brakes a little bit on this question. Are they considering the idea that impeachment, also though, again, the facts may warrant that inquiry, is a good thing, potentially, for donald trump to use out on the campaign trail and, perhaps, to get reelected on . What would they say if we put them on truth serum . If you put pelosi on an imagined truth serum, yes, shed say, the president is going to use this on the campaign trail and wallop democrats on it. Hell say, democrats just rehashed investigations. Hes already going to do this, by the way. Hell say, they went after my Business Records from 2010. Right. They just wanted to harass me. Democrats are worried about that. Listen, its not as if they arent investigating him. Theyre in Court Getting documents. By the way, they just secured a crucial victory days ago to get his Accounting Firm to turn over Business Records. It is not as if theyre sitting on their hands, but they do think just a couple months into this majority, four, five months into the majority, itd be a step too far. I will say this, the angst is absolutely growing. As an observer of congress, who has been doing this for a decade, i dont know im not saying she cant, but i dont know how she holds this position for the next 18 months. I mean, this congress is far from over. There is a growing group of people, although not a majority or even close, that want to take that step. Bob bauer, ill end with you. Take it where you want to go in terms of what happens next. What is the most significant move we could see coming . Will we see the tax returns . Eventually, yes. Under what circumstances, on what timetable, thats very difficult to say because the administration appears to be dug in. On the question of impeachment, Speaker Pelosi referred to other tactics to escalate. The house does have other vehicles by which they can put pressure on the executive branch, the appropriations and other processes. They control many sand into the administrative gears. There is also some talk about theyre using their inherent contempt power to assess fines. Not necessarily, though they may have the authority to do that, to detain witnesses, but to assess fines. It isnt cloer ear they will re to that, but they may threaten it and try to put pressure on witnesses that are, so far, unwilling to defy the president s directive they not testify, like don mcgahn. We may see a range of potential responses or the threat as part of the escalation the speaker has referred to. Id say one other point about an impeachment inquiry. Impeachment inquiry, i think, whatever one believes about the merits of it, strengthens congresss hands over the court battle over the obtaining of the information it is looking for here. It is at the apex of Congress Constitutional authority, that it relays a demand to the exercise of its impeachment authority. That is an important step in the constitutional sense, in addition to the member patience in the Trump Administration. Real quickly, are you saying if impeachment proceedings begin, congress will have more power to actually get access information in this inquiry . It strengthens their constitutional position. One of the fights theyre having with the administration is whether they have a legitimate purpose in seeking certain information. At the moment, they are formally inquiring into the grounds of impeachment. That legitimate need intensifies significantly. Its raised to a different and more compelling level in any subsequent judicial contest. Lot to consider. Thank you for being on this morning. Ahead on morning joe, well run through some of the new polling today, including suggestions that the president is trailing joe biden in some of the key states. Speaking of the former vp, new numbers show him dropping a few points, as Bernie Sanders gains ground. Well get to all of that ahead. First, lets go to bill karins with a check on the forecast. Good morning to you, mika. Over 50 tornadoes in the last two days. We had significant snow with the same storm system in colorado yesterday. Even denver got covered up by snow. Yeah, some areas got up to 20 inches in the mountains of colorado. Theres coors field. Were getting to the end of may, folks. It is snowing in western nebraska. Wyoming, casper it is snowing, and south carolina, we have a little snow. Big storm from the last couple days is slowly pushing out. For today, well see a little rare area of Severe Weather possibility. Joplin, missouri, eastern and western oklahoma, areas of concern today. Tomorrow, i think we could have another Severe Weather outbreak tomorrow with tornadoes. Possibly north texas once again, up into western kansas. As far as travel impacts go, look out in the northeast. This is our first really big Severe Weather day of the season. Areas here from State College to hagerstown, maryland, scranton, into philadelphia, new york city late in the day. We have 47 Million People at risk of severe storms. Again, this is tomorrow afternoon and evening. Maybe isolated tornadoes in areas of the northeast. Then well talk about this as we go throughout the holiday weekend. We could see temperatures at record highs in the southeast. Right through saturday and sunday and into memorial day. Active weather pattern continues across the country. At least today, we get a little bit of a break from our tornado outbreak. New york city saw one of the best days of the entire year yesterday. It is a pretty gorgeous morning, too. Heres new york city. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Limu emu doug what do all these people have in common, limu . [ paper rustling ] exactly, nothing. 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Hand what over . Video games, whatever you got. Lets go. You can watch videos of people playing video games in the morning. Is that everything . I can see whos online. Im gonna sweep the sofa fort. Well, look what i found. Take control of your wifi with xfinity xfi. Lets roll now thats simple, easy, awesome. Xfinity xfi gives you the speed, coverage and control you need. Manage your wifi network from anywhere when you download the xfi app today. Welcome back. The Trump Administration gave classified briefings to congress yesterday on the situation with iran. It comes amid quickly escalating tensions with tehran, which the administration originally said was due to, quote, indications of a credible threat by the Iranian Regime forces. Although President Trump said on monday that there arent actually any indications iran is up to anything nefarious. Prior to heading to the hill, secretary of state mike pompeo appeared to confirm the president s assertion. Tweeting that the briefings were about, quote, 40 years of unprovoked aggression from the Iranian Regime. Pompeo and acting defense secretary Patrick Shanahan talked about the situation before and after briefing congress. Our steps were very prudent. You put on hold the potential of tax for americans. What do you mean, the potential for a tax no longer exists . Id say were in a period where the threat remains high. There havent been any attacks on america. I would consider that as a whole. It doesnt mean the threats that have been previously identified have gone away. Our biggest focus at this point is to prevent iranian mezc miscalculati miscalculation. We do not want the situation to escalate. This is about deterrence, not about war. Were not about going to war. We shared with both the house and the senate our strategic campaign, the effort to push back against irans malign activity. 40 years of terrorist activity. We talked about that and tried to place that, or place the recent intelligence in context of that 40 years of history. All right. Couple of things. First of all, translating for the president is always difficult. These guys couldnt even hide it. If you look at shanahans face in that second sound bite, he is disgusted, it appears. Just from his facial expressions, about what the heck is going on here, while they try and translate the stupidity that has shot out on tweets because of the president s irrational inability to even try and translate what exactly our relationship is with iran and tanking it at the same time, whatever the reality is. So that was just painful to watch. It must have been a painful experience for those two men. Jake sherman, what are we looking ahead today on on capitol hill, as it pertains to iran . Listen, i think members of congress, over the last couple weeks, weve seen the military move in pretty significant resources to the region. Members of congress were not kept abreast at all. So members of congress had no idea what the threats were. By the way, forget the public, which has no idea whats going on, and just is relying on the president s tweet and news reports to cipher what appears to be a significant escalation in tensions between the u. S. And iran, but members of congress were saying, we need to understand whats going on here. We have no idea. Again, they are translating the president s tweets. I think pompeo and shanahan had to go up there and assuage concerns to members of congress about the escalation, and kind of lay out whats going on. Congress has been kept in the dark, unlike a more conventional administration, which calls up i remember barack obama calling up the speaker, minority leader, majority leader, before he did Something Like this. Those calls dont exist in this congress in this era. The people are relying on the president s twitter feed. Thankfully, members of congress had shanahan and pompeo on capitol hill explain ting this. Were preparing for irans potential missteps. Really . Thats a reason to move things around. Coming up, new polling shows Bernie Sanders catching up to joe biden just a bit. New york city mayor bill de blasio has taken a top spot he might not be too proud of. Morning joe is back in a moment. Nothing says summer like a beach trip, so lets promote our Summer Travel deal on choicehotels. Com like this surfs up. Earn a fiftydollar gift card when you stay just twice this summer. Or. Badda book. Badda boom. Book now at choicehotels. Com hey allergy muddlers. Achoo . Do your sneezes turn heads . Try zyrtec. Zyrtec starts working hard at hour one. And works twice as hard when you take it again the next day. Zyrtec muddle no more. And try childrens zyrtec for consistently powerful relief of your kids allergies. It is a beautiful morning here in new york city. Joining us now, former treasury official, morning joe economic analyst, steve ratner. Steve has knowledge of the economy in the 2020 election. B joe bidens lead over sanders has narrowed, but hes Still Holding a 19 point lead over the senator. Biden is down three points within the margin of error. Sanders is up five points. According to the poll, new york city mayor bill de blasio leads in the unfavorability rating. 35 of voters say they have an unfavorable opinion of the mayor. 14 in the poll say they like him, susan. Theres another poll that shows 8 favorability. Wait until they get to know him. Itll go down. Oh, thats cold. Where everybody stands, Elizabeth Warren seems to be climbing, as well. What do you see . I see good news for the folks lower down, fifth to eighth place. Mayor Pete Buttigieg took a hit in the poll. Theyre probably saying maybe his star is fading just a little bit and theres room for them to grow. Mike, what are you seeing . I see us doing a story a year from now, pointing out this poll and saying, wow, can you believe how things change sd . Lets look at the charts, steve, talking about the economy and how donald trump can capitalize on it in 2020. Yeah, the economy is obviously near or at the top of everybodys list of what matters in an election. Not surprisingly, economists have tried to study the relationship between the economy and the outcome of political elections. Theres a guy who has the best model. Ill show historical examples for where donald trump is. Back in 2008, you can see that the model predicted 53. 1 for president obama. It ended up at 53. 7 . Thats pretty darn close. If you look at 2012, he predicted 51. 8 . It came out at 52. 0 . Also pretty darn close. I should say, in addition to things like Economic Growth and inflation, key ingredient in this model is incoupkucumbent c incumbancy, it is easier, which factors into trumps favor, as well. Now, the 2016 election and what was predicted for donald trump. What was predicted for donald trump, and this is the popular vote, was hed get 54. 1 because of the fact that we had an eightyear democratic president and because the economy still wasnt doing that great. He would get 48. 8 . If you look at the next chart, you can see what actually happened. Which is that mr. Trump was estimated at 51. 6 sorry. This is for 2020. This is looking ahead. I apologize. 2020, he is looking at 56. 1 . Then you contrast that with the polls, which show joe biden at 48. 7 . You show trump at 40. 6 . What you come away with is this disconnect between how trump should be doing, based on the economy and based on the fact that he is an incumbent, and almost every incumbent gets reelected, versus the fact he is polling so badly. This is the ying and the yang against his personality. In this economy, he should be leading the 54 of the popular vote share. If a president had this economy right now, with these unemployment numbers, wages rising, if moderately, he should be doing better than he is doing right now, youre suggesting . Yeah. I think youd find that every president or candidate who has run against these kinds of results from this model, whether it be a Strong Economy and the fact that he is an incumbent. Four years ago, he was an insurgent, which helped him then. It all suggests donald trump should win the election. If you look today, he should win 56 of the popular vote. To simplify the numbers, the charts, you have the i made them as simple as i could. Color coded and everything. You have the real economy out there, then you have the real donald trump out there, who is literally talking himself out of reelection. That simplified what i tried to say, mike. Thank you. Seriously, that is exactly the point. You can see it every day, right . You have this reasonably good economy, and donald trump is walking around, you know, giving tweets about adam schiff, sleepy joe, this and that, instead of touting his economic accomplish immaterials. It it is against what any adviser would tell him to do. Under president obama, they were cautious, saying, yes, theyre good, but you didnt want to take too much credit because there could be a hiccup under way. The only time donald trump seems to talk about the economy is when he is doing something to mess it up, like about tariffs. I mean, he just doesnt use it as a tool in any shape or form. I would think that there are some things he could say that even he knew at a basic level to kind of present to the public. He talks about the tax cuts that people didnt feel. What can people feel from the economy right now . Well, what they are first of all, there are people being left behind. You talked about that yesterday in the story, something democrats should be exploiting. Beyond the headline numbers, things arent that great. But the headline numbers you know, there is a saying, it is the three, three, three economy. 3 wage growth. 3 unemployment. 3 gpd growth. Those are really pretty strong numbers in the context of whats gone on before. Trump doesnt seem to be able to capitalize on that. The democrats should be talking, as you said yesterday, about all the people who are left behind, because below the headline numbers, there are people left behind. From trumps point of view, the great advantage is that right now, the newspaper headlines are all saying good economy, good economy, good economy. For many people, that does resonate. So joe bidens 2020 president ial campaign experienced a fundraising boom after his official kickoff last saturday. According to the campaign, during his philadelphia rally, biden raised more than 1,000 per minute. The campaigns largest hour of grassroots fundraising since it launched. Meanwhile, biden hit back after President Trump accused him of abandoning pennsylvania voters. Biden responded in a series of tweets, writing in part, yesterday, trump tried to attack me at his Campaign Rally by saying i abandoned pennsylvania. Ive never forgotten where i came from. Adding, trump doesnt understand the struggles working folks go through. He doesnt understand what its like to worry you will lose the roof over your head. He doesnt understand what it is like to wonder if youll be able to put food on the table. Bidens family had to leave pennsylvania when he was 10 years old, when his father got a job in delaware, so he could provide for the family. Mike barnicle, joe biden here, what i see as formidable for biden 2020 versus trump, is that biden is getting turnout at these events. Hes getting crowds. He has a following. People listen to what he has to say. Half of this is duking it out at events with people and getting them to listen to you, and showing trump that they are there for him. Trump, im going to tell you, every time he does a rally, i think democrats should be unc d uncredibly nervous about how many people he stirs up. We need a candidate on the democratic side who has the ability to stir people, dont we . Sure, absolutely, mika. Youre right about Donald Trumps rallies. I mean, they are, in essence, a show. Theyre an entertainment factor. Theyre pep rallies. But i think a little bitrall. He is a great entertainer. On that stage, it is all about him and the show that he puts on. It is a powerful tool he employs. The former Vice President , joe biden, he and a handful of the other candidates, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren to some extent, theyre talking about things that steve was just talking about with the charts. They are talking about the fact that a huge percentage of people in this country are living on a paycheck to paycheck economy. Week to week. Theyre trying to play catchup week to week. Theyre not often talked about. Theyre not often addressed, the trivials of raising a family, planning for a family, College Tuitions, trade School Tuitions, whatever youre talking about is a real chore for them. It is not the stock market. Its not the soaring numbers in different stocks and everybody says, wow, a big day on the street. A big day on the street for a lot of families is the fact they got enough money to pay the oil bill or buy a pair of sneakers or have their kids be able to go to the movies this weekend. Those are the issues the candidates, like joe biden, have to address Going Forward. Up next, don mcgahn failed to show up to a congressional hearing yesterday. Now, House Democrats are turning up the heat on other folks in trumps orbit. Emily gene fox joins us to talk about the new subpoena for hope hicks, next on morning joe. Run with us. On a john deere z500 series mower. Built to mow better, faster. Because sometimes. When you take a look around. You notice. Your grass is long. Your time is short. And theres no turning back. Nothing runs like a deere™. Run with us. Visit your john deere dealer today, to test drive a z500 or z700 series ztrak™ mower. With a leesa hybrid mattress. Bedtime is no longer simply the time you go to sleep. Its time to switch off and catch up. Time for a deeper rest from a better mattress. Experience the leesa hybrid mattress. Combining Pocket Spring responsiveness with premium foam comfort. Leesas hybrid design makes it the experts mattress of choice. American made. Built to last. And right now its on sale. Get 15 off and two free pillows. Go to leesa. Com today two more wealthy parents embroiled in the College Admissions scandal pleaded guilty in court today. High powered lawyer Gordon Kaplan and the owner of napa valley Wine Vineyards took separate plea deals for the charges of conspiracy to commit mail fraud and Honest Service mail fraud. Hun huneaus paid 50,000 to get his daughter into the university of Southern California on a phony water polo scholarship. You really cant write this stuff. It is unbelievable. Meanwhile, caplan allegedly spent 75,000 for a test proctor to correct his own daughters a. C. T. Exam. The two men are the sixth and seventh parents to plead guilty in the wideranging admissions scheme. We will continue to follow this story. It is the gift that keeps on giving when it comes to the worst scandal weve seen on many levels during this trump time that were going through. Coming up, the democratic calls for impeachment are growing. Kasie hunt spoke to a number of lawmakers on capitol hill yesterday. Shell join the conversation. And the vice chair of the House Judiciary Committee, mary gay scanlon, who supports an impeachment inquiry, will also be our guest. Plus, hud secretary ben carson confused a common real estate term for an oreo cookie during a congressional hearing yesterday. Yes, he got that confused. Well talk to the lawmaker doing the questioning, who was trying so hard just to get an answer. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Whats going on up here . Cant see what it is yet. What is that . Thats a blazer . Thats a chevy blazer . Aww, this is dope. This thing is beautiful. I love the lights. Oh man, its got a mean face on it. It looks like a piece of candy. Look at the interior. This is nice. This is my sexy mom car. I would feel like a cool dad. Its just really chic. I love this thing. Its gorgeous. I would pull up in this in a heartbeat. I want one of these. That is sharp. The allnew chevy blazer. Speaks for itself. 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As we told you earlier, the House Judiciary Committee has subpoenaed former White House Communications director hope hicks, along with annie donaldson, former white House Counsel for don mcgahn. Former chief of staff with mcgahn himself defying a congressional subpoena to testify before congress yesterday. Wow. Joining us now, Senior Reporter at vanity fair and msnbc contributor, emily gene fox, who has been covering hope hicks for years. Also with it, capitol hill correspondent and host of kacie d. C. , katie hunt. Also, msnbc contributor Mike Barnicle is still with us. Republican strategist and msnbc political analyst susan del p c percio, as well. Steve rattner still with us. Along with willie and me. Joe is off on book deadlines. We have a lot to talk this hour and this drum beat toward impeachment. Ill start off with kasie hunt. What are you hearing on capitol hill . Nancy pelosi is holding strong, but the calls to move forward on this presidency, on many levels, and get answers in real time, theyre growing strong, arent they . They are getting stronger, mika. Were going to get a chance to take the temperature more broadly this morning when nancy pelosi meets with her rank and file caucus to talk about this. Essentially, whats really changed in the last 48 hours is some members of her leadership team, theyre kind of on the lower level of her leadership team, but there was a contentious meeting on monday where they said, you know what, this isnt working. We have to send a stronger message. We have to use every tool we have twaavailable to us. We have to start an impeachment proceeding to force this president to cooperate in some way. The reality though is the broader dam is Still Holding. Whats different is this push, which is from leadership but also leaders from the judiciary committee, who are in the trenches on this every day, their frustration level is really growing. The question is going to be whether that broadens out to, you know, the dozens of other new freshmen faces, for example, people who are, you know, potentially are at risk coming up in 2020 of losing their seats. Whether or not that sort of additional set of agitators broadens into a ground swell. You know, nancy pelosi, you know this, mika, and it was great to see your interview with her on monday, she has a great sense of where her caucus is. She also knows what she believes about impeachment. If her caucus is in a broadly different spot from her, i think youll see her adjust. So far, thats not happened. Her top leaders are with her. The sense is this would be a political nightmare for democrats. Theyd likely lose the house, potentially the president ial race against the president if they undertake this, because itd just divide the country so, so deeply. I dont think that we are quite yet at a point where this is inevitable, but we may be moving in that direction. Youve kind of anticipated any next question which is, yes, i mean, Speaker Pelosi is hearing from some democrats, a couple dozen of them anyway, that it is time to move forward can with impeachment. I suspect viewers of the show say, we read the Mueller Report. You have to go forward with impeachment on this. As a political question, i get why Speaker Pelosi may not want to push this because of what you laid out, perhaps losing the 2020 election on it. Just as a matter of congress and congressional oversight, isnt there some obligation to move on with this . I miean, thats the argument willie. If they were to move forward on this, thats the argument youd hear. They simply cant advocate this fundamental responsibility that they feel toward making sure our system of checks and balances and norms is all maintained. It seemed, you know, relatively clear that Robert Muellers intention was for congress to grapple with many of these Big Questions around obstruction of justice. Right. You know, so far, pelosis argument has been that they are taking the steps that are mandated, that are necessary to hold this president accountable. Shes been doing it in a methodical process. Checking every box, doing everything right, so when they have to turn to the Judicial Branch for help, theyll win these cases. In our column is the fact that, so far, that project is actually going relatively well. Theyve gotten a couple key rules in the last week in their favor, you know, against this administration. Theres also a line of thinking that says we have to continue what could be an effective strategy to get this information out, whereas, impeachment proceedings could potentially interfere with some of that playing out. The problem is, you know, the politics gets in the way with the timing. How do you get all of this out of the court system before 2020, when, frankly, none of it matters anymore . We heard a name yesterday in hope hicks, emily, who youve covered closely but, by and large, hasnt been a part of this discussion, talking about the russia investigation the last few years. She was the White House Communications director for a time before he left to go to a private career. She was subpoenaed yesterday for testimony and documents. Is she now going to be pulled into this as a centerpiece of the investigation, given her proximity to the president for so long . There are very few people who were at the center of the action from day one of the campaign through the first year of the administration. What hope hicks knows, what she saw, who she knows, who he is incredibly close to is i cant understate the value of what her testimony might bring. I think it would be important. I think it would be illuminating. I think, at times, it could be explosive. I mean, this is someone who went to capitol hill before and said she told white lies on behalf of President Trump. I think it is important to get to the bottom of why she was telling white lies and what the lies were about. This is where the tension of hope hicks comes in. For me, someone who has written about her and covered her, she is incredibly close with the president and his family, with members of the administration still, though she left quite some time ago now. She is in a very big private sector role now for a new public company. There is going to be a tension between what serves her best in her new life now and her loyalty to the trump family, to the Trump Administration. I dont know which way this is going to go. Shes one of those people who never fully gets away from President Trump. Some people cut it off and walk away, but he so likes her and so trusts her, that it seems to me theyre still in some level of communication. As you say, we can talk about a series of instances, including the drafting of the memo on air force one after the trump tower meeting, where they said, the president dictated the memo and lets lie and say it was set up to talk about adoption. She was there for this. She was helping craft that. There are plenty of instances where we know she was in the room, helping things that we know investigators are looking into. Im sure there are a number of things we dont even know she was involved in. Thats why it is so valuable. Of course, i wrote a story for our hollywood issue of the magazine coming out in february, and she was regularly talking to the president. There was one anecdote in the story where someone in the administration told me that they were on air force one with the president , and they were discussing an issue and how to handle it. The president said, call up hope. This is when she was in her new job, settled in los angeles, across the country, and he was still calling her for advice on how to handle situations. Her testimony is incredibly valuable. I hope, for the sake of this investigation, we get to hear it. Yeah. Were going to talk more in just a moment with dave about what the legal steps are for hope hicks, the legal challenges, and why this gets under trumps skin, perhaps more than the other folks. First, joining us now, vice chair of the House Judiciary Committee, democratic congresswoman mary gay scanlon of pennsylvania. Great to have you on. I just checked your dms, and i see an exchange between you and your son about impeachment. Im going to ask you to bring that to light. Because nancy pelosi is probably very concerned at this point about passions and politics overruling whats best for the American People truly understanding what is going on. One thing she said to me is it is important to get all the facts out. You say impeachment, potentially, might noeed to happen. Explain to me why. Yesterday, along with a couple dozen of my colleagues, i did say that im in favor of an impeachment inquiry. It is for exactly the reasons that Speaker Pelosi said. We need to get the facts out. Weve had the Mueller Report released to the Attorney Generals Office two months ago. Weve had this monthlong discussion of what is actually in it. Now, people are starting to get to read it. So the back and forth text with my son what information can you get and i want to hear about that. Sorry to cut you off. What information can you get in impeachment if you dont have republican support in the senate . Like, is it going to bring forth more information . Then talk about the text with your son. Well, the big challenge here has been, without having the full Mueller Report, the underlying evidence, so we can start having hearings,merican p that report, its been very difficult for people to really dig into it. We held covered a cover reading of the Mueller Report last week, as one of our efforts to try to keep the facts, keep the evidence in front of people. Thats where, i think, it comes down to. We need people to focus on whats in the report and the evidence underlying the report. Dont you think the focus would then be on the fact that donald trump will be making a circus out of being impeached . I mean, i understand that you would like to use the impeachment process to get more answers, going to happen, especially with this president and the tactics he uses. It is going to become chaos, political chaos, dont you think . You mean as opposed to what we have now . I mean, it is already a circus. You know, we have been doing our job as we go along. Yesterday, we passed a series of bills involving veterans. We have passed bills involving immigration and womens rights and criminal justice reform. Were going to keep doing that job, but i think willie was right earlier when he said, yes, there are political considerations, but weve reached a point where theres serious constitutional considerations. Thats what is really driving a lot of this conversation. Congresswoman Mike Barnicle . A simple question here. How do you proceed with an impeachment inquiry when you can get no witnesses to appear before your panel . Well, i mean, clearly, were going to have to go to the courts with an impeachment inquiry or without one. Because the president has put forward a number of ridiculous legal arguments as to why he shouldnt have to produce evidence, why the Justice Department shouldnt have to produce evidence, why witnesses shouldnt appear. Their groundless. You dont get to exert a blanket exertion of executive privilege, particularly for things where you werent an executive yet. Theres a lot of things where, i think, the preference is to have the courts weigh in on this, and weve been successful there in a couple cases. All right. Vice chair of the House Judiciary Committee, congresswoman mary gay scanlon, thank you very much. Thank you. I want to get back to the subpoena of hope hicks, among others. Dave aaronburg joins us for this, among other things. Dave, first of all, what could happen legally here . Is she, too, going to be directed by the president not to show up . Im sure that the president will invoke executive privilege, as he has with the others, to keep her from showing up or producing documents. You know, this subpoena has got to especially irk the president because he and hope hicks, as emily said, are extremely close. They have like a father daughter type of relationship. You know, i keep thinking about that crazy anecdote in Corey Lewandowskis book, where during the campaign, one of hope hicks jobs was to steam the president s suit jacket and pants while he was still wearing them. Yeah. You have to be a close confidant to do that. So the legal ramifications are to help develop a case of obstruction of justice against the president , whether for articles of impeachment or for potential prosecution after the president leaves office. You know, throughout the Mueller Report, it describes how hope hicks testified to the fact that she was there for a lot of the meetings and conversations and, in particular, in the Infamous Trump tower meeting in june 2016, that she advised the president and his son to get ahead of the story and answer honestly. You know then the president and his son took a different approach. That grew up in their face. We know now the meeting wasnt about just russian adoptions but getting dirt on hillary clinton. To add more color there, hope hicks, corey lewandowski, and keith, they were trumps body people on top of being in the jobs they had. She carried around hair spray. She was always with him. I didnt know about the pants steaming. Im not sure thats that sounds almost a little dangerous but okay. She was there for these key moments. So question for you about how people like hope hicks, who are receiving these subpoenas while theyre trying to go on with their the next phase of their lives, i mean, shes got to lawyer up. I mean, this is not just like, you know, something that they can just handle on the phone themselves. Isnt this sort of making it a real cross to bear for people who have worked for trump, because the legal ramifications, and id think the legal costs, of all these different calls to testify would have for them. It is a fair point. You know, if you are going to work for this administration, you have to be prepared to hire your own lawyer in case youre subpoenaed. Thats got to dissuade people from wanting to work for this white house. This is going to continue. It is not going away soon. It looks like the president and the white house are taking the long game to push this out past 2020. Thats why you see all the stalling, all these invocations of executive privilege, when the law in the area isnt very clear. I can say this, it is unlikely that executive privilege would apply here because shes already testified before bob mueller. Right. That waives executive privilege. This is about the long game and delaying. Whats the long game for someone like hope hicks . If the president tells her not to testify, would it be better for her to testify and get it behind her . That would be up to her lawyers to advise her. Emily says she works for a Major Company now, and it may be in her best interest to put it behind her and testify. The president is going to invoke executive privilege, as he did with don mcgahn. You saw what happened when don mcgahn still could have testified yesterday before the house and did not do so. I expect that this thing will be delayed. I dont expect to see her before congress or producing documents before congress any time soon. So executive privilege, to tell someone not to testify, does that mean they cant testify, or can they say, no, mr. President , im testifying . They can say, no, im testifying. Okay. Been waived when she testified before bob mueller and his team of investigators. Right. In addition, you know, the president s invocation of executive privilege is specious here. It is unprecedented. It is so broad, to keep anyone from testifying or producing documents. I think the courts will not recognize it. But that may take months for the courts to rule. I think thats what the president is planning on. Emily, do you think hope hicks will do the right thing and just be transparent with the American People about what happened . She was in there. Does she listen to trump if he says, i executive privilege tell you not to testify, or does she step up and know her value and get in there and tell everybody what happened, end of story . This is a tricky question. Ive been thinking about it since yesterday, when this came out. The right thing for you and me and everyone around this table, and probably most people watching, would be to get out there and tell the truth. Just do the right thing. She was someone who worked for us. She was a member of the administration. A person who worked in government, who served the American People. The tricky thing is, her loyalty to the trump family. As weve seen from a number of people who get caught up in this orbit, they sort of lose sight of what the right thing is. Theyre sucked into this universe where the right thing for her, in her mind, may be to be loyal to the president and to his family still. I truly dont know where this is going to land. I hope that she understands that for her new job and for her new life, that it is better to probably just rip off the band aid and get this over with. At some point, shell likely have to answer these questions and answer to the American People and answer to investigators and congress. I hope, for her sake, in getting her life back on track, she gets this over with. This loyalty to this family, as weve seen time and time again from a number of people, is a very tricky thing and a very difficult thing for people to get out of. You know, emily, you mentioned this earlier, and i think, just from your point of view in explaining it, it is a critical element of hope hicks and what she does and what she will be doing. She now works for a public company. Listed on the stock exchange. Prior to accepting this job, she interviewed with several other Public Companies. She was wellliked in the interview process. People thought highly of her. But each of the Public Companies that she interviewed with were afraid of the trump taint. What happens to her Going Forward with that in the background . It is interesting. She took this new job at new fox, which is a murdochowned company. Someone who i spoke to for the story explained to me, it is sort of trump light, right . This is a company that would accept someone who worked in the Trump Administration. It is not like going to a new company that had its reservations and hesitations about someone who worked in the Trump Administration. At the end of the day, they have shareholders. Someone who is in a big, prominent position within the company, being dragged back and forth for months on end over a legal battle is not good for the company. It is not good for investors. I think that the idea of her getting this out of the way and ripping the bandaid and stopping the bleeding really fast is definitely better for the company. What is best for hope hicks personally, in her own personal calculation may not be the same. Think thats where were going to see the tension play out here. Mika, well see if hope hicks shows up to testify, but she may make the case the Trump Administration made broadly, which is, i spoke to the special counsel, i spoke to the special counsel twice, and i answered every question they askedcovere twoyear administration with an arbiter, bob mueller. Im not testifying again for a circus. She was looking for jobs outside of the trump orbit and couldnt find one. Shes still in this maelstrom of trump, murdoch, whatever, this whole thing. She may be too squeezed by it, too weak to really step up for herself. It would be incredible. It would be remarkable if this young, strong woman stepped up for america and maybe showed the world that she knows her value, and shes going to tell the truth and get out of being stuck from under trump, who called her ho hopster all the time, and treated her like a toy that followed him around. She should know her value and get this behind her, no matter what the cost. Emily, thank you very much. Emily has a new piece out on the epic fall of Stormy Daniels exlawyer, Michael Avenatti. Well be reading that in vanity fair. Dave, thank you, as well, for being on with us. Still ahead on morning joe, well talk to congresswoman katie porter, whose questioning of ben carson yesterday took a remarkable turn. She wasnt the only lawmaker taking the cabinet secretary to task. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Do you believe the substandard Public Housing conditions pose a risk to tenants physical, mental, and Emotional Health . You already know the answer to that. Yes or no . You know the answer. Yes or no . I know the answer. Do you know the answer . Yes or no . Reclaiming my time. You dont get to do that. The time belongs to the gentlelady. Gentlelady we see two travelers so at a comfort innal with a glow around them, so people watching will be like, wow, maybe ill glow too if i book direct at choicehotels. Com. Who glows . Just say, badda book. Badda boom. 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[narrator] at Symetra Life Insurance Company were cutting through it, to help you choose the Retirement Benefits and Life Products that work best for you. The Retirement Benefits and Life Products heresshow me making it. Like. Oh i got one. The best of amy poehler. Amy, maybe we could use the voice remote to search for something that youre not in. Show me parks and rec. From netflix to prime video to live tv, xfinity lets you find your favorites with the Emmy Awardwinning x1 voice remote. Show me the best of amy poehler, again. This time around. Now thats simple, easy, awesome. Experience the entertainment you love on x1. Access netflix, prime video, youtube and more, all with the sound of your voice. Click, call or visit a store today. Welcome back to morning joe. Joining us, chief legal analyst for abc news, dan abrams, the coauthor of Theodore Roosevelt for the defense, the courtroom battle to save his legacy. Great to see you. Great to be back with you. You found this lane, where youre uncovering historys mysteries, and stories that we didnt know about it. Well get to it in a second because it is fascinating. Want to get to the news on the day. The white house approach here to the House Judiciary Committee, to congress generally speaking, is to put up the stone wall. Dont answer subpoenas. Block people from testifying. Theyre within their rights. Whats the recourse for congress in this case, if somebody doesnt show up to testify . Theyre in their rights to argue it. Look, congress has to go to court. People are talking about this ideas that an impeachment inquiry, which im not certain how that is different from what were talking about, in terms of hearings before, but you call it an impeachment inquiry. You argue in court it is an official proceeding, then you, i guess, enhance your argument a little bit. The truth is, congress has a strong legal argument anyway. If theyre to go to court today without the impeachment inquiry, they have a strong argument on most of these instances. Because, you know, ranging from tax returns to people showing up, et cetera, you know, the claim now that theres immunity. Remember, it is not just executive privilege theyre claiming. You hear people say, executive privilege. No. With regard to mcgahn, theyre saying hes literally immune. We dont even need to get into exactly where should he be testifying about, what shouldnt he be testifying about . Hes simply saying, no go. Cant testify. Youll see the same sort of argument across the board, it sounds like, with all his inner circle. I think that when focusing on the next step here, when people say, well, the impeachment inquiry would up the legal argument that congress could make, it ups it a little. But it is the political weight that you really have to factor. Out in the real world, if you dont answer a subpoena to testify or provide documents, a Law Enforcement officer says, youre in trouble. Come with me. If were going to go i think that the argument the Trump Administration is making, or the bet theyre making at least, is that we can drag this through the courts, through the 2020 election, and survive this thing and get the president reelected. I they thats right. Theyre definitely trying to run out the clock. Lets be fair here, people who are subpoenaed fight subpoenas. Right. This isnt the only subpoena fight weve ever seen, right . People dont get dragged into jail when they challenge a subpoena. Right. There is a court process. It has to move forward. The question is going to be, how fast . This goes back to your point, right . If it gets expedited, the way some of these proceedings seem to be happening, that could be bad news for the Trump Administration. The problem is once you get into the appellate court, it gets slower and slower and slower. Thats right. While the District Courts may move it quickly, theres always going to be this inherent slowing of it down once you get to the appellate court. I dont think it is any question that thats what theyre betting on. Do you worry, or are you concerned at all, you know, talking about the subpoena element of this story, but at its root, it is really, what powers does congress have . What powers does congress have historically, and what do they have today, and are they being stripped of the power . Look, the problem is that it is not crystal clear, right . We can talk prod lbroadly about powers, talk about oversight, checks and balances. Defining exactly what that means in this context is tricky. Thats why you need the courts. You know, for example, this thing about immunity, its only been tested in a court one time, in a district court, and the argument was rejected. It hasnt worked its way up through the appellate courts, et cetera. The answer to your question, unfortunately, is some of this is unanswered as of right now. As to exactly what that power is. Yeah, but dont you think that congress has the better of the argument . Theres an argument that executive privilege was waived when mcgahn spent 30 hours in front of congress. This immunity argument is new to me. Im not sure where that exactly depose. Fundamentally, as willie said, when youre subpoenaed by congress, sooner or later, you have to show up. Isnt this a delaying game, and at the end of the day, congress should prevail on getting some or all of these people in front of them to actually testify . I think congress will likely prevail on most of the arguments. Look, some of the executive privilege arguments are not frivolous. I mean, the idea there is the question of whether they waived them by testifying. Im not saying it is an easy question. You cant immediately say, oh for example, on executive privilege, the likely answer is that it was waived on the specific things that he discussed with mueller but not on anything else. Meaning, so if they were to actually get mcgahn in, in theo theory, they could only ask about what was in the Mueller Report. After 30 hours of testimony, you think mcgahn covered a lot of territory. No question about it. My point is, it is not as easy as were making it out to be, i think, on the legal questions. It is the delay really. The delay. Congress on the whole has the better argument. Dan, lets turn to the book. Theodore roosevelt for the defense, the courtroom battle to save his legacy. Talking about 1915, a couple years after hes left office. Former president of the United States sitting on the stand in his own defense. Sued for libel. Crossexamined by a lawyer who doesnt like him personally or politically. Tries to embarrass him and shame him and harm his legacy. Basically say that Teddy Roosevelt was a fraud. Its a fascinating trial. Franklin roosevelt testifies in Teddy Roosevelts defense. Weve taken the transcript of 3,000 plus pages, which we had to go to syracuse, new york, to get because no one asked for it in a hundred years, and we were able to tell the story around this fascinating trial, which really res nate resonates toda. The key questions related to corruption in politics. It relates to money in politics. I mean, these are the same issues we talk about today. Theodore roosevelt accused a party boss of being corrupt. As a result, the party boss sued him. He landed him in court. Sued him for 50,000. Where do you dig for these stories . Your previous book was about the lincoln transcripts. Yeah. Where do you find the stories that, as you say, was Headline News a hundred years ago, but doesnt show up in history books. My coauthor has been mining for great stories. Hes the one who initially came to me with the lincoln story. He said, you know, there is this transcript, the only one that exists of any trial lincoln argued. It was discovered in a garage in 1989. No one has written about it. I said, come on. The only transcript that has been in a garage and no one has written about it . He was right, no one had written about it. That led to lincolns last trial. This was wasnt in a garage, but it was syracuse, new york, and it was 3,000 plus pages, but the amazing thing, lawyers today would absolutely recognize exactly what was happening inside this courtroom. A lot of similarities. One of the fascinating elements of this story is the plaintiff in this story, bill barns, is sort of a news publisher in albany, sort of a local version of murdoch today. He was a very powerful publisher and party boss. They had to move the trial out of albany, new york, the capital of new york, because the concern was he was too influential in albany. Considering a lawsuit against the former president of the United States. They had to move it to syracuse, new york. Barns also had his own aspirations. For those history buffs, he was also the grandson of weed, one of the pioneers of the republican party. So barns ends up suing roosevelt, in part because he had his own hopes for running for office for the first time. Everyone had a lot at stake in this case that lasted six weeks and was on the front page of every newspaper in america. Dan abrams digging through history again to find these gems. The book is Theodore Roosevelt for the defense, the courtroom battle to save his legacy. Great to see you. Congrats. Good to be here. Up next on morning joe, democrats calling for a review of a russian companys investment in a kentucky aluminum plant. All eyes are on Mitch Mcconnell. Thats next on morning joe. G. Applebees new loaded fajitas. Now thats eatin good in the neighborhood. Applebees new loaded fajitas. 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Dont take mavyret with atazanavir or rifampin, or if youve had certain liver problems. Common side effects include headache and tiredness. With hep c behind me, i feel free. Fearless. And theres no looking back, because i am cured. Talk to your doctor about mavyret. Its not small. But its not just big either. Its the kind of big where youll never have to ask, should i scooch up . Its big that looks at a sunroof and wonders why it cant just be most of the roof. Its big thats better because we built it that way. The spacious, 121 cubic feet of cargo space ford expedition. Democrats are asking the Trump Administration to review an investment in kentucky by a russian aluminum company. They say its raised concerns about russian influence on the u. S. Economy and national security. Follow this. The New York Times reports the Company Announced last month that its board approved a 200 Million Investment in a planned aluminum plant in ashland, kentucky. This is four months after the Trump Administration lifted sanctions on the company, which had banned it from doing business in the u. S. And prevented the kentucky deal. The sanctions were originally imposed because the company, along with the parent company, are owned and controlled by russian oligarcoligarch, deripa with close ties to the kremlin. The paper notes the sanctions were lifted after a, quote, sophisticated legal and lobbying campaign by the companies. Democratic lawmakers sent a letter to treasury secretary Steve Mnuchin, saying they were, quote, deeply alarmed by the planned investment and asked that the committee on Foreign Investment immediately review the matter. The Companies Expect the deal to close before the end of june, and the plant is expected to be operational by 2021. The times also notes that just last january, Senate Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell, Mitch Mcconnell of kentucky, helped defeat a bipartisan effort to block the sanctions relief deal for rthe company. He was working to help the company, making sure thsanction didnt hurt them. Before the april announcement, david vitter, a former republican senator, being paid to lobby for the parent company, reached out to give mcconnell a heads up about the announcement. Last night on the Rachel Maddow show, ohio senator Sherrod Brown weighed in on the deal. When trump and mcconnell are on the same side, and when trump is protecting mcconnell, and mcconnell is protecting trump, which looks to be both ways here, most of the republicans went with them. We know that the russians and trump and mcconnell are quite, i guess to use the russian word, quite a threeway, i guess, sleigh, that ultimately takes us in a bad ka call this dirty politics. Why would mcconnell want russian money to fund aluminum plants in his state . Why . Cant he go somewhere else . Whats the deal . They say in politics that if theres a turtle on a fence post, it probably didnt get there by itself. This would be one of those things. Itd be an incredible coincidence. Mitch mcconnells team argues they didnt know about this when they were talking about lifting these sanctions back in january. You know, as you pointed out, they were given a heads up about this announcement. You know, what democrats are asking for here is for them to take a look. There is an entity inside the Treasury Department that kind of reviews these deals and says, hey, is this something thats okay for u. S. National security . Consider what this is. This is an aluminum plant. Under this deal, the russians would invest in this plant, and also help provide the raw aluminum to then be, you know, turned into cars and airplanes. Thats the kind of thing where, you know, democrats are kind of looking sideways and saying, hey, you know, that may not be considering, you know, the russian interference in our election, and many other concerns over many decades with russia, that may not be in the United States best interest. Both mcconnell and rand paul are, again, claiming they had nothing to do with this, they didnt know anything about it. They had everything to do with it. We have laid out all the facts. Everything to do with it. I think it is very easy to kind of, you know, put the points together here. Mika . Lets bring in White House Correspondent for pbs news hour. I dont know how Mitch Mcconnell can separate himself with this. I believe vitters wife played a role in this or got something, as well. This doesnt look good at all. You know, as we look at whats happening on capitol hill and how money is moved around, and dirty russian money. Can i call russian money dirty . We dont want it at this point. What is key, one of the people with a controlling interest in the company is someone tied to vladimir putin. The democrats are saying, look, we know this is a country that meddled in our elections. The Mueller Report, the first line i think spoke to the issues that the American Public should be looking at, which is that russia mettled in the election in a sweeping and systematic fashion. What you have is, i think, democrats wanting to sound the alarm. On the republican side, theyre saying they didnt know about this. On the ground, you have people saying, really, this is going to bring jobs to the area. People want to be able to feel like theyre making a living. In some ways, people on the ground are probably wondering, is this going to be in the best interest for us, even if it is a foreign country . It is definitely something democrats are probably going to be pushing on, but there is the, i think, tension there, with the idea that there are people in kentucky who are saying, we just want something to be able to work with here. You know, steve, when the history of this administration is recorded, trump obviously will play a key role. With the passage of time, do you think it is possible that the focus on the most important and dominant figure in this period of history will be Mitch Mcconnell . Well, Mitch Mcconnell is the longest serving majority leader in the history of the senate. He is incredibly powerful. He has played it beautifully in terms of things like changing the rules so that you get judges approved at for three hours of debate instead of 30 hours of debate. Master tactician. Not particularly wellliked, from everything to his appearance to his personality to whatever. But i dont i cant recall an example of where Mitch Mcconnell has actually been accused of doing something that isnt kosh kosher, so to speak. He has a reputation of playing by the rules. His rules. Well, his rules, but i think on the ethical side, hes been honest, to be fair, pretty clean and pretty powerful. Yes, he is an unbelievably powerful figure. When the history is written, Mitch Mcconnell will have been the enabler of much of what trump has been able to get done. Steve rattner, thank you so much. Still ahead on morning joe,. Id like to know why were having more foreclosures that end in people losing their homes, with stains to their credit, and disruption to their communities and neighborhoods at fha, than we are at the gses. I would be extremely happy if youd like, to have you work with the people who do that. Mr. Carson, respectfully, that was my day job before i came to congress. Wow. Wow. She was good. Well talk to democratic congresswoman katie porter, who appeared to be teaching hud secretary ben carson a thing or two about his job. Its an incredible exchange. Well have more of that for you, and well talk to her about it. Were back in a moment. We call it the mother standard of care. Its how we care for our patients like job. His team at ctca treated his cancer and side effects. So job can stay strong for his family. Cancer Treatment Centers of america. Appointments available now. Cancer Treatment Centers of america. We see two travelers so at a comfort innal with a glow around them, so people watching will be like, wow, maybe ill glow too if i book direct at choicehotels. Com. Who glows . Just say, badda book. Badda boom. Book now at choicehotels. Com do any of you know captand here we go. [ good to be alive by andy grammer ] its snowtime baby. [ screaming ] oh, snowball. Uh, is he ok . Not in any way no. Take that ok. You were just beaten by a rabbit. You dont even know it. [ ding ] oh, my pizza rolls. If youve ever worried youre not good at your job, you can rest assured that theres someone even worse at his. Ben carson has been accused of being not qualified to lead the department of housing and urban development. Today, he didnt help his cause. He confused a real estate term with a cookie. Id also like you to get back to me, if you dont mind, to explain the disparreos. Or oreo. Reo. Real estate. Whats the o stand for . Organization. Real estate owned. Thats what happens when a property goes to foreclosure. We call it an reo. Oreos. I like how he wasnt confident, as well. He minded me of us in school. What is the o . After you get over how funny it is, and it is funny that he said oreo, its hard not to be really sad, given what the topic was there. Joining us now is the member of the House Committee on Financial Services who had that, apparently, tough questioning of hud secretary ben carson. Democratic congresswoman katie porter of california. Katie, thank you for being on the show. I thought you did a great job, trying to get answers yesterday. You had questions about the numbers of foreclosures and the numbers of people who are being left homeless with terrible credit, their credit practically insurmountably ruined. And is it fair to say the man who heads the department in charge of these issues has no idea what hes doing . It appeared to be that way. My questions were serious ones. They werent designed to be gaudy. I work the for years helping families who faced foreclosures for more than a decade. Its been a wellknown problem at the fha, the section of the government designed to help firsttime buyers, part of hud, has promises how it services mortgages and helps families in foreclosure. Mr. Carson did not only not know anything about this but he told me it was my job to explain to him and come to hud and teach his staff and to me that shows a real disrespect for the importance of the his job to the American People. How much does this problem have to do with hud then . If they dont know what theyre talking about, how can they fix these problems . Are they, like many in the Trump Administration, induced by this administration . What is going on with foreclosures in america and people having stains on your credit to take your words . We used to have the Consumer Financial protection bureau, we used to have people in the white house who were concerned about american citizens taking advantage of by the system, or left homeless or left with impossible credit and being taken advantage of by the banks. So what can you do at this point if the people in hud are clueless and what is their responsibility with this problem . Its 100 their responsibilities, specifically because i was asking about fha loans. That department is entirely housed within hud. One of the things mr. Carson did over and over yesterday is say this is not my problem, this is congresss problem. He did that at every opportunity. But the questions i asked him are squarely on him, theyre squarely on hud. They are longstanding problems to be fair to mr. Carson, existed before he got in the position, but hes clearly done absolutely nothing to even learn about this problem, much less address it. The result is not only are families being put in foreclosure when we could have avoided it, taxpayers are paying higher costs and funds misused and denying the cost of credit to lowincome homeowners. Thats a problem that should concern every american who wants to see this economy growing. Congresswoman, its willie geist. As you saw people had fun with that clip and got a laugh out of it. But i gather watching you this morning, you were not amused watching secretary carson. That was such an infur righting piece to watch that someone with such a fundamentally important job doesnt have the elements of his job. Are there people you can look over and past a guy in his position because he was flattering to the president of the United States over the last couple of years, are there serious people there you can talk to and negotiate with . I think the most serious person that we saw in hud has already left the department. Pam didnt last very long. She was a real housing scholar and could have been very, very helpful on this issue. Were certainly going to ask for the acting director of fha to provide some answers here. Mr. Carson yesterday when i got back to my office, he had a package of oreos delivered to me but what i want from mr. Carson is answers for the American People. He seemed to be reveling in this, tweeting the package of oreos like it was a light, fun moment and not revealing a complete lack of understanding of his job. Do you think secretary carson should be in that position . Let me just put it to you flatly. No, i do not. Do you believe hes there because his treatment of President Trump and flattery of President Trump . I cant speak to President Trumps motives but i can speak to the outcome to American Families and businesses which we are all losing by not having competent, strong, effective, intelligent leadership at hud. Congresswoman, yamiche has a question for you. Good morning, congresswoman. There are statistics that show under the leadership of ben carson there have been more housing failings health and inspections. Do you think Public Housing and hud housing has gotten more dangerous under ben carson . The evidence certainly suggests that. I think what we saw yesterday from his responses or i should say his lack of responses to a number of important questions is that this is somebody who doesnt take these problems seriously, who isnt well versed in the challenges facing this agency. One of my colleagues in alaska asked him how many families were waiting to get help with housing payments, he said oh, a couple hundred thousand. The correct answer is 4. 4 million. This is somebody who simply isnt aware of the challenge his agency is facing. And if you dont know what the problems are, you certainly are not interested in solving them. Congresswoman, its kasie hunt. Nice to see you this morning. This is not the first time put an official on the spot with direct questions. You will hear from treasury secretary Steve Mnuchin today. What will your focus be with him . My focus to secretary mnuchin will be to ask him questions about his job. Thats really what i was doing yesterday with secretary carson. These oreo thing has gone viral and im getting packages of oreos delivered to my off the but what i tried to do with mr. Carson is the same thing i will try to do with mr. Mnuchin, which is understand what these people are doing that are supposed to be monitoring the risk to the American Economy and working to solve the problems the American People are facing. There are real questions about the longerterm health of our economy and i want to make sure he is doing his job, and also overseeing the irs and Treasury Department. This is a real serious job. It has fundamental implications for the economy, job opportunities. None of this to me is a joke. These are real people with real responsibilities to americans on the ground. I came to congress to fight for those americans. Congresswoman katie porter, wed love to have you back tomorrow to talk more about this but also to hear how that hearing went. Thank you very much for coming on this morning and thank you for your service. Yamiche, kasie hunt, thank you both very much. Still ahead, speaking of the irs, the irs is siding with congress. When it comes to President Trumps tax returns. An internal memo reportedly says the agency is required to turn over the documents unless the president invokes executive privilege. Well talk to one of those reporters for that new piece coming up. Plus, joe biden hits back after President Trump told rally goers in pennsylvania that the former Vice President abandoned them. He responds. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. I switched to liberty mutual, because they let me customize my insurance. And as a fitness junkie, i customize everything, like my bike, and my calves. Liberty mutual customizes your Car Insurance, so you only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. I also think were being played by the democrats a little bit. They want me to say well raise taxes and do this and this and this and then have a press conference and say see, trump wants to raise taxes. Its a little bit of a game. Trump is concerned democrats are, quote, setting a trap for him on their facetoface meeting on infrastructure today. Wonder why hes worried about getting paid . 20 times you called for i will shut down the government if i dont get my wall. You know what i will say you said it. You know what i say, yes, you will get what you want, if we dont get a wall, i will shut down the government. I am proud to shut down the government for Border Security, chuck. People in this country dont want criminals and people with lots of problems and drugs pouring into our country. So i will take the mantel. I will be the one to shut it down. Im not going to blame you for it. Wow. Good morning and welcome to morning joe. It is wednesday, may 22. Joe is off on book deadline this morning but along with willie and me, we have msnbc contributor Mike Barnicle, republican strategist and msnbc political analyst susan del percio and Senior Writer at politico and coauthor of the playbook on msnbc, political contributor jake sherman. Nancy pelosis trip to the white house isnt her only highstakes meeting she also is meeting with her rank and file as more and more democrats are, including some president ial candidates, are calling for impeachment poedinpoe proceedings of the president. Heres what the House Speaker told me monday. This is not about politics, passion or prejudice. Its not about politics. Its about patriotism and presentation of the facts so the American People can see why were going down a certain path. It is i dont know, i feel very confident that the American People know that they deserve to know the truth, and thats what we want to present to them in a way that they dont perceive to be without the presentation of the facts. Were going to begin this morning with a draft of a confidential Internal Revenue Service Legal memo that reveals President Trumps tax returns must be given to Congress Unless he excerpts executive privilege. The memo obtained by the Washington Post contradicts the Trump Administrations justification for denying House Democrats request for the president s tax returns. Trump has refused to turn over six years of returns but has not invoked executive privilege, and treasury secretary Steve Mnuchin has denied the request, arguing that lawmakers have no legislative purpose for demanding that. However, according to the tenpage irs memo, the disclosure of tax returns to the committee is mandatory, requiring the secretary to disclose returns and return information requested by the tax writing chairs. It also directly rejects the reason mnuchin cites for withholding the returns from lawmakers adding the only basis of agencys refusal to comply with a city subpoena would be invocation of the doctrine of executive privilege. The irs told the post the memo was prepared last fall when democrats had made it clear they would seek copy of trumps tax returns under a 1924 law requiring the treasury secretary to provide them to congress. However, it is unclear who wrote and reviewed the document. The agency says the memo was never forwarded to the Treasury Department. So, willie, again more back and forth about trumps tax returns. I guess the big question here will be what happens next . Does this memo mean something actually has to happen . Right. Does Steve Mnuchin have to respond to this in some way . Lets bring in one of the reporters behind posting this document, policy economic reporter from the Washington Post jeff stein. Lets talk through this a little bit. This memo you report in the fall by the irs by a lawyer that never made it to Treasury Department. Is it fair to say treasury secretary Steve Mnuchin was not aware of the memo and didnt know about this policy . Thats what the Treasury Department told us in a statement, mnuchin never reviewed the memo. We will try to get to the bottom of that. Mnuchin is testifying on the hill today. Im confident the lawmakers will pose that very question, which is a good one. Is this binding in any way . In other words, is this just an opinion written by a lawyer . Is this an irs policy that will have implications for, say, treasury secretary mnuchin responding to a subpoena from a Congressional Committee to get these tax returns out . No, mnuchin is not bound by this decision or memo at all. Hes free to make his on opinion. He can overrule the judgment of subordinates at the irs. To that point the irs commission ircharl ircharl ircharl ircharles red ig said he can overturn the tax returns. Jake, how worried do you figure Steve Mnuchin is about this memo . Considering the administrations policy clearly is delayed and denied on every aspect of congressional reques story is terrific because it gives a peek inside an agency thats holding on to documents despite what appears to be clear language in the statute. But i will say this, all of these things and this plays into what mika said at the top about impeachment, all of these document requests or requests for testimony, are going to be settled in court. And thats becoming more and more evident. Thats the backbone of Nancy Pelosis strategy when it comes to impeachment when she talked about with mika in that interview. All of these issues are going to be resolved by a judge. We saw that last week and pelosi this morning is going behind closed doors with her lawmakers to discuss all of the successes that they anticipate they will have and that they have already had in court. So i think everything so possibly, by the way, the Supreme Court. This could go pretty high. As we know trump likes to put things off and likes to take things to the highest Authority Court wise, and will probably Lodge Complaints and ask for appeals and all of those things. So i think this is going to be ultimately decided by somebody higher than the irs or Steve Mnuchin. Well, this administration brings stonewalling to a whole new level because they just say no, no, and no to everything. So if this does go to the courts, the question is going to be, what will be the time line . Especially if there are so many efforts to try and stop the process along the way . Could this drag out so long that the American People dont get a real time sense of whats really going on . Lets bring in professor of practice and distinguished scholar and residence at New York University school of law, bob bauer. He served as white House Counsel to president obama. Bob, thank you for being on the show. The memo says the only basis for agencies refusal to comply with a committees subpoena would be the invocation of the doctrine of executive privilege. What would be the grounds for that . And, again, can the white house do that and say no . I would think the answer would be yes. In truth, im not sure at all what it means to say that the administration could or the president could invoke executive privilege to prevent the release of returns under the statute, which as you pointed out earlier has been on the books for some time, amended in 1976, speaks in mandatory terms the secretary shall furnish the requested information. There have been designated Congressional Committees including chief of staff for the joint Tax Committee which has the authority under this statute to request returns. Congress made a judgment there. It isnt clear in what context or what way the president could defeat this mandatory requirement with a claim of privilege. Maybe there are some circumstances around some aspects of the returns that perhaps the irs has in mind that the president can use the privilege to defeat the disclosure of. Im certainly not clear at the moment what that would be. What do you make about the fact that the pattern of this administration is to stymie, is to say no, to find a way out. So youve just mentioned that theres so many potential caveats that you dont even know in terms of looking at this process and the law, how the law applies here. Are we looking at months and years before we get anything out of this administration in terms of tax returns or any type of information . Yes. I mean, i cant speak to each and every instance and how easy it would be for the administration to hold out, but without a doubt, if this goes to litigation, absolutely, given the various stages of the appellate process it could go through, this could consume a significant amount of time, well into the next year and beyond. There you go. Jeff, what happens next then . Thats a big question and i dont know. I just wanted to make a quick point. The doctrine of executive privilege is about internal Administration Policies and deliberations. And some of returns that democrats are seeking are from before trump was even president. Perhaps thats why treasury secretary Steve Mnuchin is not invoking executive privilege, hes not turned to that yet, and perhaps thats part of the reason why. The Washington Posts jeff stein. Thank you very much for your reporting. The tension between House Democrats and the Trump Administration is escalating after former white House Counsel don mcgahn defied a congressional subpoena to testify before congress yesterday. There was that empty chair. The House Judiciary Committee subpoenaed former White House Communications director hope hicks along with annie donaldson, mcghans former chief of staff. Mcghan had been scheduled to appear before the committee yesterday morning but he skipped the hearing after being directed by President Trump to ignore the subpoena. The president took it upon himself to intimidate a witness who has a legal obligation to be here today. This conduct is not remotely acceptable. Let me be clear, this committee will hear mr. Mcghans testimony, even if we have to go to court to secure it. We will not allow the president to prevent the American People from hearing from this witness. Susan, the white house is daring democrats to commence impeachment, an inquiry into it. Theyre saying were not going to answer subpoenas. Were going to instruct people not to testify. Were going to invoke executive privilege. Were going to put up that stonewall. What are you going to do about it . If youre a democrat in the leadership position, Nancy Pelosis been very careful about the questions of impeachment saying slow down, follow the facts, but some democrats are getting reckless in that caucus now. They are getting reckless and they should be. Its been over a month since the Mueller Report became public. At this point i think it falls upon the democrats to do something about it. If they feel that are there are reasons to impeach the president , if there are things in the second part of that report that are impeachable offenses, go and do it. I say this as a republican who called on other republicans in the senate to do the right thing and vote against the president and not authorize the Emergency Action for the Border Security about a month ago. They have to go do their job and they are frustrated. Just as we heard, we can take months or years. They should be acting now. Still ahead on morning joe it took just a few words on the president s twitter page to ratchet up tensions with iran. Dialing back that rhetoric isnt quite so effortless. We will show you what the acting pentagon chief is now saying about the threat of war. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Nothing says summer like a beach trip, so lets promote our Summer Travel deal on choicehotels. Com like this surfs up. Earn a fiftydollar gift card when you stay just twice this summer. Or. Badda book. Badda boom. Book now at choicehotels. Com so, i started with the stats regarding my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. Like how humira has been prescribed to over 300,000 patients. And how many patients saw clear or almost clear skin in just 4 months the kind of clearance that can last. 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The Trump Administration gave classified briefings to congress yesterday on the situation with iran. It comes amid quickly escalating tensions tensions with tehran, which the administration said was due to credible information of a threat by the Iranian Regime forces. Although President Trump said on monday there are actually no indications that iran is up to anything nefarious. Prior to heading to the hill, secretary of state mike pompeo appeared to confirm the president s assertions. Pompeo and acting defense secretary Patrick Shanahan talked about the situation before and after briefing congress. The precedents are very prudent and would put on hold a potential tax on americans. What do you mean put on hold the potential for a tax . You mean the potential for a tax no longer exists . I would say were in a period where threatening begins. There have been no threats that we previously identified. Our biggest focus at this point is to prevent iranian miscalculation. We do not want the situation to escalate. This is about deterrence, not about war. Were not about going to war. We shared with both the house and the senate our strategic campaign, effort to push back against iran activity, 40 years of terrorist activity. We talked about that and tried to place that or place the recent intelligence in context of that 40 years of history. All right. Couple of things, first of all, translating for the president is always difficult. And these guys couldnt even hide it. If you look at shanahans face and th in that second sound bite hes discussed discussed it, it appears hes disgusted as they try to translate the stupidity that was shout out on tweets because of the president s inability to try to translate what exactly our relationship is with iran and tanking it at the same time whatever the reality is. So that was just painful to watch. It must have been a painful experience for those two men. Jake sherman, what are we looking ahead today on, on capitol hill as it pertains to iran . Listen, i think members of congress over the last couple of weeks weve seen the military moving pretty significant resources to the region. And members of congress were not kept abreast at all. So members of congress had no idea what the threats were and, by the way, forget the public, which has no idea whats going on and just relying on the president s tweet and news reports to decipher what appears to be a significant escalation in tensions between the u. S. And iran, but members of congress say they need to understand whats going on, they had no idea. Again, theyre translating the president s tweets and i think pompeo and shanahan had to go up there and assuage concerns members of con escalation and lay out whats going on. Again, congress has been kept in the dark and unlike a more conventional administration, which calls up i remember barack obama calling up the speaker, minority leader, majority leader, before he did Something Like this. Those calls dont exist in this congress, in this era. So people are relying on the president s twitter feed and now thankfully for members of congress, they had pompeo and shanahan up on capitol hill explaining this. Coming up on morning Joe Joe Biden uses an attack from the president to pivot to jobs. We will talk about the former vps strategy on the campaign trail next on morning joe. Everyones got to listen to mom. When it comes to reducing the sugar in your familys diet, coke, dr pepper and pepsi hear you. Were working together to do just that. Bringing you more great tasting beverages with less sugar or no sugar at all. Smaller portion sizes, clear calorie labels and reminders to think balance. Because we know mom wants whats best. 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In 24 hours, youll send him off thinking youve done everything for his well being. But meningitis b progresses quickly and can be fatal, sometimes within 24 hours. While meningitis b is uncommon, about 1 in 10 infected will die. Like millions of others, your teen may not be vaccinated against meningitis b. Meningitis b strikes quickly. Be quick to talk to your teens doctor about a meningitis b vaccine. Joe bidens 2020 president ial campaign experienced a fundraising boom after his official kickoff last saturday. According to the campaign, during his philadelphia rally biden raised more than 1,000 per minute. The campaigns largest hour of grass roots fundraising since it launched. Meanwhile, biden hit back after President Trump accused him of abandoning pennsylvania voters. Biden responded in a series of tweets, writing in part, yesterday trump tried to attack me at his Campaign Rally by saying i abandoned pennsylvania. I have never forgotten where i came from, adding, trump doesnt understand the struggles working folks go through. He doesnt understand what its like to worry you will lose the roof over your head. He doesnt understand what its like to wonder if youll be able to put food on the table. Bidens family had to leave pennsylvania when he was 10 years old when his father got a job in delaware so he could. For the family. Mike barnicle, joe biden here what i see as formidable for biden 2020 versus trump is biden is getting turnout at these events. Hes getting crowds. He has a following. People listen to what he has to say and half of this is duking it out at events with people and getting them to listen to you and showing trump that they are there for him. Trump, im going to tell you, every time he does a rally, i think democrats should be incredibly nervous about how many people show up and how hes able to divisively stir up that crowd. And we do need a candidate on the democratic side who has the ability to stir people, dont we . Yes, sure, absolutely. And youre right about Donald Trumps rallies. They are in essence a show, an entertainment factor. Pep rallies. But i think a little bit more than pep rallies. Hes a great entertainer. On that stage its all about him and the show that he puts on. And its a tool he employs. The former Vice President in joe biden, he and a handful of other candidates, Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren to some extent, theyre talking about the fact a huge percentage of people in this country are living on a paychecktopaycheck economy, week to week. And theyre trying to play catchup week to week. And theyre not often talked about, theyre not often addressed, the travails of raising a family and planning for a family, College Tuitions or trade School Tuitions or whatever youre talking about is a real chore for them. Its not the stock market or soaring numbers in different stocks and everybody says wow, good day on the street. Big day on the street for a lot of families is the fact they got enough money to pay the oil bill or buy a pair of sneakers or have their kids being able to go to the movies this weekend. Those are the issues that the candidates like joe biden have to address Going Forward. Coming up on morning joe an abortion rights rally in washington had a very different look to it than the alabama lawmakers whose new laws restricting the procedure helped spark backlash nationwide. That conversation is next on morning joe. Theyre americas biopharmaceutical researchers. Pursuing lifechanging cures in a country that fosters innovation here, they find breakthroughs. Like a way to fight cancer by arming a patients own tcells. Because its not just about the next breakthrough. Its all the ones after that. With peak season berries, uniqcreamy avocado. And a dressing fit for a goddess. Come taste what a salad should be. And with panera catering, theres more to go around. Panera. Food as it should be. Thanks to priceline working with top airlines to turn their unsold seats into amazing deals, Family Reunion attendance is up. Were all related yeah, i see it. And because priceline offers great deals by comparing thousands of prices in real time, sports fans are seeing more away games. Various yeahhh is that safe . Oh, y. Ahh not at all. No, maam. Nope. And more people than ever are enjoying romantic getaways. romantic music thats gross priceline. Every trip is a big deal. Welcome back. Lawmakers and abortion rights activists gathered in cities across the country yesterday to protest the wave of state laws aimed at restricting abortion access. Tens of thousands gathered at more than 400 events in state capitals, the steps at the Supreme Court and major cities coast to coast marching, chanting, waving signs against state laws designed to challenge roe v. Wade. The demonstrations come as Louisiana State senators approved a state constitutional amendment specifically denying the constitutional right to an abortion, which would, if passed, be up to eye ratification vote this fall. As democrat governor John Bell Edwards signaled his report for a sixweek abortion ban currently working its way through the statehouse. Joining us now, president of planned parenthood, dr. Lena wynn. Also with us the cohost of morning joe first look, yasmine u suven. Thank you for being on the show with us. First of all, review what happened yesterday. How did the protests and support go to protect womens right to choose. Thank you for having me on. Im a doctor and my job is to take care of women in this country. And im deeply concerned about these devastating attacks all across the country on Womens Health and rights. Yesterday we saw people all over the country rise up to stand up and speak out that abortion care is health care. That were not going to go back in a time to a time before roe where thousands of women died every year because they didnt have access to essential health care. Were not going to stand for politicians taking away our bodily autonomy. I want to be clear that abortion is still legal in all 50 states, and planned parenthood will be doing everything we can to fight to keep it that way and the American People are standing with us in that fight. Yasmine . Dr. Wen, talk about the misconception surrounding lateterm abortions . Conservatives and the president have used lateterm abortion to defend their stance on being antiabortion. Talk about the percentage of women that receive lateterm abortion and why. First, we have to use the right terminology. We should be talking about abortions later in pregnancy and being very clear what the president has been lying about, the president han bes been spreg misinformati misinformation comparing infanticide and abortion later in pregnancy. About 99 of abortions occur before 21 weeks and those that occur later in pregnancy, which is after 24 weeks, are extremely rare. Those that occur are because of very challenging, devastating circumstances. In addition to taking care of women and families who have been in these circumstances when theyve already picked out a name, theyve had a baby shower, and then they found out that something in the pregnancy has gone very wrong, that the pregnancy is not viable, that there are severe fetal diagnoses. And this is the most devastating situation that my patients have in their lives. They need our support and compassion, certainly not politicians who are trying to exploit their pain for political gain. And what about danger to women, dr. Wen, when abortion is actually illegal . I know you tell an anecdote about a mentor that you had before roe v. Wade was passed and they talked about an area which women were being seen in the hospital and they called it the sepsis ward. Thousands of women died before roe because they didnt have access to safe, legal abortions. We know that banning abortion will not stop abortion. It will stop safe, legal abortion. And thats what its about for me and for us in medicine that politicians have no role dictating medical practice. The laws that are being passed in georgia and alabama are so extreme that it would allow the state to investigate women for having miscarriages. Imagine these states, the government looking at our personal medical records and looking to see whether we should be in prison for that and then locking doctors in jail for up to 99 years as in the case of alabama for trying to save our patients lives. Thats what is happening around the country and we as planned parenthood and the American People just will not stand for that. Doctor, one thing that weve seen or one thing that should be noted at this point is that theres a generation out there that has no idea what it means for there not to be legalized abortion in this country. We actually saw a little bit in the 2016 election when people were talking about judges and the importance of the Supreme Court. And how its potential to overturn roe v. Wade. A lot of young people, especially millenniums, just dont know how to exist without it. It seems there needs to be more outreach and explaining the importance of whats at stake right now when we talk about the upcoming election, when we talk about judges, not just the extreme cases but the important of just having legalized abortion. Thats exactly right. We need to be clear that abortion care is health care. Theres no other medical procedure that is regulated in this way, the way there have been 420 bills passed in the last seven years. Can you imagine if there are 420 bills passed in the last seven years to directly restrict mastectomies or anything else . And thats what planned parenthood are going to be focused on. The action fund will be focused on mobilizing our 13 million supporters and growing to educate and organize and make clear this is a time when everything, all of our rights are on the line. And we will be Holding Accountable all of those people who try to take away our bodily autonomy. Dr. Leen wen, we appreciate you coming on the show you today. We will have a much deeper conversation on what women can do and whats at stake at knowyourvolume. Com. Thank you very much for being on morning joe. Willie . Back in new york, Senior Reporter at vanity fair and msnbc news contributor emily jane fox. I want to get to her new reporting and incredible piece in vanity fair about Michael Avenatti. Theres so much here. I hardly know where to begin. But a pretty good place to begin is with Michael Avenatti talking about Stormy Daniels. This is why we know who Michael Avenatti is, and the country was introduced with him because he represented the porn star with whom the president of the United States had an affair. He said this, and this is not coming from an anonymous source or interpretation of what he said,i said, this is a quote, when i met with stormy i saw an avenue to do damage to donald trump and those around him for what appeared to be illegal conduct and rigging the president ial election. I saw an opportunity to do something that was just right and basically goes all in. He admits explicitly he used Stormy Daniels. Sure. I tried repeatedly to get Stormy Daniels to talk on record for this story, and she would not. Seems to me like perhaps theres something brewing or something to come. Michael avenatti did do Collateral Damage on behalf of his client to the people in the president s orbit, so far not to the president but potentially down the road. I think the important part to emphasis is on behalf of his client. She seems to have gotten lost in the avenatti show and it was not about necessarily to serve the best interest of his client. His client is on the hook to put President Trumps lawyers fees in a civil case that they filed against the president and against michael cohen. So its interesting to me Michael Avenatti has gotten all of this attention and claimed to be this incredible attorney, but his client i dont believe is any better off for her representation. What is your impression of what avenatti wanted out of all of this . What was he setting out to do by going on tv constantly and having his face and name out there . He said to me in our interview he wanted a chance to do Collateral Damage to the president in his orbit. I think he was getting notoriety, receiving and essentially launched a selfbid for the presidency of the United States. What i could not square, and i asked him a dozen ways a dozen different times is, knowing what was happening in his private life we now know hes been indicted on 36 counts in jafl. Theres potentially another indictment to come in new york. Knowing what was happening in his private life with financials and business dealings and what he was doing allegedly to clients and their Settlement Funds is getting into the public eye the way he did. Its not that he just took on a case. He took on a case against the president of the United States and proceeded to do a media tour for essentially six months, living out of television green rooms on tv, on twitter, and so i just couldnt square the two of those things. When i asked hix him repeatedly, he finally said to me, i didnt think it would be as big as it was. I came to new york planning to stay three days and ended up saying months on end and doing all of these things on tv. But its really hard to square away psychologically you could have been doing something so devious in your private life and desire to get into the private life like that. As willie indicated, the most devastating aspect of this incredibly fascinating piece, is that its in his own words. Theres no interpretation needed. Ever every once in a while in the course of his business were all in, you get an interview like this, and i assume that at some point during the interview you had to be thinking, i cant believe hes just talking like this. But a couple of phrases that he uses when he says im incredibly fearless, live by the sword, die by the sword, it just barks out that this person, Michael Avenatti, who weve come to know through this instrument, television, is badly in need of counseling. Its interesting, we sat down the day after the 36count indictment dropped. I was 100 sure he was going to cancel the icnterview. I flew to los angeles and said theres no way this is happening. I checked in friday morning to see if we were still on and hes like come over in the afternoon, the time that works for you. As i sat across from him and he began the interview saying his lawyers strongly advised against him doing an interview, and coming from an attorney to me, that struck me. I think that he really wanted to get his side of the story across, and that is who Michael Avenatti has been for the last year in the public eye. Someone who wants to shape his own narrative. Sort of like our president , he believes hes the best messenger and manipulator of the media. But what hes facing now is incredibly grave, its incredibly serious. Theres real legal implications for speaking about these kinds of things to a reporter and so the stunning interview and something that i think will potentially be relevant down the road. And you talk about the things you cant square, he lambasted the president the same day he was arrested, which you actually beautifully wrote about in this piece. You also talk about avenattis exgirlfriend, a 23 kweryearo woman who you sat down with for two hours who knows his history quite well. I met with her on two occasions and we spent a couple hours each time. I will say Michael Avenatti was not charged in a Domestic Violence case, even though the police were called they decided to not press charges so they left the window open. But she painted the picture to me of a yearlong relationship where she was physically, emotionally and psychologically abused. The relationship was volatile and tumultuous. One thing she said that really stuck out to me was she never knew which michael she would wake up next to. Some days she would wake up to a man who was incredibly sweet and some days wake up to a man who was completely psychologically abusive to her. Michael avenatti to me denied any allegation of abuse, certainly never laying a hand on a woman, i want to make sure i state that. But her story, shes a 23yearold young woman and one who was very clearly jostled and upset with the year she faced, saying i dont really know who he is. You wrote a piece saying she will make money being a waitress and he said you cant be a waitress dating a president of the United States in the white house. I read where he said jokingly, dont you want to be the next president of the United States of america . Jokingly, maybe. Likely. As with all of your pieces, its a stunning piece in vanity fair. Thank you. Still ahead, from home depot to walmart, more and more companies are sounding the alarm about the president s trade war. What it means for the american pocketbook. As we go to break this week at knowyourvolume. Com, were looking at mentoring and resilience. I share the same four main mentors that changed my life in a big way and how they did it. Also the five mistakes women make in the pitch room. Dont do these things. All of our pieces on the website this week help women build professional resilience, which we often struggle with in the challenge to catch up with our male counterparts who are paid more from the gitgo. We talk about that a lot with younger women just starting out in the newly released book earn it, a guidebook for women in the first phase of what will be a long and successful career. Were already getting grave stories from women all over the country who have read the book and theyre using the book to help them earn it. We share those in our know your value social channels and would love to hear from you. Can you find out everything at knowyourvolume. Com. Keep it right here on morning joe. Joe. With a terrain Management System for. This. A bash plate for. That. An electronic locking Rear Differential for. Yeah. This. Heading to the supermarket . Get any truck. Heading out here . Get the ford ranger. 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Brilinta reduced the chance of having another heart attack. Or dying from one. Dont stop taking brilinta without talking to your doctor, since stopping it too soon increases your risk of clots in your stent, heart attack, stroke, and even death. Brilinta may cause bruising or bleeding more easily, or serious, sometimes fatal bleeding. Dont take brilinta if you have bleeding, like stomach ulcers, a history of bleeding in the brain, or severe liver problems. Slow heart rhythm has been reported. Tell your doctor about bleeding new or unexpected shortness of breath any planned surgery, and all medicines you take. If you recently had a heart attack, ask your doctor if brilinta is right for you. My heart is worth brilinta. If you cant afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. I want it that way. I cant believe it. That karl brought his karaoke machine . Aint nothing but a heartache. No, i cant believe how easy it was to save hundreds of dollars on my Car Insurance with geico. I never wanna hear you say. No, kevin. No, kevin believe it geico could save you fifteen percent or more on Car Insurance. President trumps trade war with china continues to have adverse effects on americas economy and farming industry. Yesterday republican iowa senator joni ernest said she hears from constituents about the impact every day, and, quote, our farmers are feeling the pinch. While also saying that trump is, quote, doing the right thing. Bloomberg reports that the Trump Administration is set to unveil another assistance package for u. S. Farmers impacted by the president s trade war, which could exceed 15 billion. Meanwhile, retailer khols said trump tariffs have forced it to lower its earnings forecast. Deere and company said its scathing back production at north american plants and significantly cut its fouryear profit forecast. Walmart said its increasing prices to for u. S. Shoppers due to the tariffs and jcpenneys, macies and home depot say if trump goes through applying tariffs on the u. S. Imports which he has vowed to do, it will have a major impact on their bottom lines. Home depot also says trumps tariffs have resulted in, quote, roughly a billion dollar impact on its business. Lastly, more than 170 shoe retailers, including nike, under armour and adidas, sent a letter to trump warning of the, quote, catastrophic effect of his tariffs, which could lead to a massive 100 duty on shoes. Hello. This is affecting the American Economy. Were going to continue to follow this story, of course. Willie . Joining us now actress kate mull groove, best known for her roles on star trek and, of course, orange is the new black. A few years ago she decided to step away from her career to care for her aging parents. Shes here with a new book. Thank you for being here. Wonderful to be here. Vuch. To give a background your father is diagnosed with aggressive lung cancer. Your mother diagnosed with a typical for of alzheimers. You decided to do what with that news . My father was easy, fast and furious, three weeks from soup to nuts if you pardon that expression. He had never been to a doctor and when elected to go because his glasses had broken and fallen down he was diagnosed with a tumor on his brain stem, given three, four weeks to live. Decided against chemo and radiation, not a lot of laughs left, pal . I wont be seeing you again. And the second part of my book is the last night i spent with my father and we drank an entire bottle of vodka and i asked him questions i had held in all of my life and i shared secrets with my father that night and he with me, and when he was dead two weeks later, he thanked me for everything i had done for the family when he was out of the picture. The second part was my mother who was any idolized and great love and she was diagnosed with atypical alzheimers, which im sure affected or touched all of us in one way or another since it would hit half of our population by 2050. That was a walk through an everdarkening ticket for which she did not emerge. A more prer nishs or insidious disease does not exist and less sexy one does not exist because its about aging, its about madness, its about death. Nobody in our culture wants to talk about mortality because were scared. But the fact is thats the way its going to go. We have to raise funds for more research, conduct successful Clinical Trials regarding a cure for alzheimers but its a hope an aleej ak, i hope a miracle, for two people who shaped me and i love so very much. So in carrying out the advantage surrounding family histories, theres a lot of baggage in families, your family as well, so what role did fear of writing this play in writing this . Spoken like someone whos read a great deal and lived a lot. Significant. You never want to hurt the people you love, whether theyre living or dead. I have six surviving siblings. There were eight once upon a time. Two of my sisters died. It was a hillbilly family as a child. Please remove it. Thats a brick call. It is bricks and mortars, yes. But that night with dad i knew would be liberating because i knew it would be the last shot. So everything was free. And he was nothing, if not philosophical, very stoic and brave at the end. But in the wake of having written this, and i must say i have had much trepidation about my siblings, i wouldnt hurt them for the world, but i suppose thats inevitable. You walk a plank when you write a book about people that you love and about the memories that are particularly subjective and exclusive to me. You know your brothers and sisters are going to disagree with a great deal of it. I hope that theyre not hurt by it because i adore them. Kate, watching parents die is debi debilitating for any child. Watching two parents die is horrendous and alzheimers is just a horrible disease to watch. What do you feel like you learned most about yourself in this whole process . Isnt it a curious thing when you ask me about this, as much as i talked about this, as old as i am, im 64, you ask this question pointedly and it stirs up emotion in me immediately because the goodbye, they call it the long goodbye, is so agonizing, she was very vital, extremely, exceptional person. She was a baker, artist, mother of eight. My mother was a really magnificent human being. And then i just watched the lights go out. She was smart enough to realize she was up against something epic so she asked me to assist her to her death. She looked me straight in the eye and she said, kitten, you know how to get it. Get it. You dont have to do anything else, just find the pills and give them to me. I cannot do this. I went to the doctor, and i did find somebody and i said is it possible . He said yes, but by the time you get it, she will have forgotten what she asked you and indeed it already passed. So it was that sort of excruciating goodbye to someone who was once so remarkably vivid to you. Wow. Terrible to live in and im sure not easy to put it down on paper. Were so glad you did because there are so many families dealing with what you had to deal with. The book is how to forget a daughters memoir. Kate mulgrew, thank you very much. Kate, as we close the show, she has the most amazing voice. I pretty much want her to like Read Everything and record it. Thank you very much. Youre on and we end there. That does it for us now. Stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. Thank you very much, mika. Its 9 00 a. M. On the east coast and we have a lot to get to this morning. Our team of extraordinary nbc reporters are here with new details on the stories impacting your life today, starting with 13 Million People in the path of Severe Weather right now. Tornadoes, strong winds and floods across the south and the midwest. Now the threat is not over. In the next two hours, a lot happening in