Why there may be a 2020 challenger in the Republican Party. And just a few minutes, well talk about a new report out about the lengths the russianbacked Disinformation Campaign went to tilt the election in favor of republicans. The draft report prepared for the Senate Intelligence Committee Found that russia used every major u. S. Social media platform to try and elect President Trump. Well talk more about this new reporti ining that the washing post got their hands on in just a moment. First, the president himself is facing legal challenges on more fronts than ever before. The Washington Post writing today, quote, two years after donald trump won the presidency, nearly every organization he has led in the past decade is under investigation. Among them the trump campaign. The transition. The inauguration. The Trump Foundation. The Trump Organization. Great, great company. And according to brandnew polling, the sheer tonnage of those investigations may be taking a toll. In our nbc news wall street journal poll, 62 say the president has not been honest and truthful about the russia probe. And 50 say the investigation has given them doubts about his presidency. Meanwhile, 43 say they approve of the job the president is doing. 54 say they disapprove. That is a negative swing of 9 points since october. And for this president who is who better to blame than his former attorney general. The president tweeting today, Jeff Sessions should be ashamed of himself for allowing this total hoax to get started in the first place. Want to welcome my panel. Joining me on set, intelligence and National Security reporter ken dilanian. Shawna thomas, former spokesperson for Vice President mike pence, the National Reporter for the Washington Post, matt visor and former u. S. Attorney and msnbc contributor joyce vance. Thank you all for being here tonight. Joyce, i want to start with you. To try and put the weight of these investigations around the president into some context, theres been some conversations and quotes ive seen come up. John dean had a tweet suggesting that this was perhaps worse than what happened during watergate. Is there any scenario where, if this wasnt the president of the united states, and you were just a businessperson or somebody in maybe even in public life who is facing the sheer number of investigations that the president is facing, that there wouldnt be one somewhere that would come up with something that was a major criminal offense . You know, as a prosecutor, i always like to wait and see what the evidence says when its all in. But with that caveat, if the president was a businessman who wasnt protected from indictment by the dojs policy, his lawyers would be in the process of negotiating some kind of a global settlement, global plea deal for him. Just based on the publicly known information. Theres good reason to believe that there are criminal charges against the president ranging from Campaign Finance to obstruction. We havent seen all of the information about the foundation and inauguration yet but that looks problematic as well. And so the president s repeated cries of witch hunt or theyre out to get me. At some point that wears very thin as layer upon layer of wrongdoing and misconduct is weighted down by the president s changing stories, his constantly shifting stories, which is such a hallmark of a guilty mind. Shawna thomas, how is the president get anything work done thats not about this. There are some reports hes on key days sitting in the residence just watching television. And tweeting apparently. I dont really know how hes get anything work done especially because he has a chief of staff on the way out. Thats the kind of person who helps make sure all of these things run. Hes trying to pick a new chief of staff. Yes, Mick Mulvaney will be the acting chief of staff. He still has to pick one permanently. He still has to fill a lot of cabinet positions. Ryan zinke is on his way out. Doesnt seem like hes focused on his job that much. But he does still travel. He went to the g20 a month ago and talked to china. At least we have that. Although that was consumed with everything happening here at home. Mark lauder, how do republicans defend this . Well, i think a couple things. What weve seen from the Washington Post report and what weve seen from others is it really reinforced what many already believe is that this is an investigation of a person in search of a crime. This is not how our Justice System works. This is the entire weight of every justice agency, the acting or incoming attorney general for the state of new york and many others saying we are going to investigate donald trump until we find something that he did wrong. But as to how things get done so youre saying that the youre saying that the Justice Department is acting outside of the normal boundaries in order to pursue all of this . That all of this is simply a fraud . What we have seen is the bar keeps moving. It started off with alleged collusion, which the story keeps changing, though. The president every new fact we find out, we find out more information about what the president lied about. But every time we find something, theres another new investigation. They are finding something new to go after. We saw some reports that they are looking for his taxes going back decades. There are things they are looking and looking until they find something that they can try to pin to this man, which is also, i believe, one of the reason yes they have tightened the screws on just about everyone who knows him trying to get them to flip, trying to get them to Say Something that he did wrong. But they are apparently saying things. Michael cohen is saying that he helped commit a crime on behalf of the president of the now president of the united states. What he admitted to was not necessarily even a crime. And it has been proven by many times that this is a civil action. Giuliani said that today, but it is not necessarily a civil action. I mean, if it is found were talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars two weeks ahead of an election. Hes directing what Michael Cohen said were specifically dirty deeds. Weve also seen in the past that Campaign Finance violations have been handed civilly. President obama took millions of dollars in misreported donations. He was fined 375,000. Bernie sanders had illegal foreign assistance during his campaign in 2016. He was fined 14,500. I would just point out none of that was deliberate. It was discovered. But what we also know, and this was brought up in a very good piece this week on the hill is that to knowingly and willfully violate the law, you actually have to know that its against the law. You have the fec commissioners and many Campaign Finance lawyers say because of the john edwards case and many postfec rulings that this was not even against the rule. If this was any of us normal americans, the Justice Department would be going after all of this. Lets walk through the timeline. The president was first asked about the Stormy Daniels hush money payment ahead of air force one in april and denied having any knowledge of it whatsoever. Did you know about the 130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels . No. Then why did Michael Cohen make it, if there was no truth to the allegations . You have to ask Michael Cohen . Michael is my attorney. And youll have to ask michael. This week, somebody did ask Michael Cohen. He directed me to make the payments. He directed me to become involved in these matters. Including the one with mcdougal. And he knew it was wrong . Of course. And he was doing that to help his election . He you have to remember at what point in time that this matter came about. Two weeks or so before the election. Post the billy bush comments. So, yes, he was very concerned about how this would affect the election. This morning, the president s lawyer Rudy Giuliani called cohen a liar repeatedly and insisted the hush money payments were not illegal. Its not a crime. Its not a crime, george. Paying 130,000 to stormy whatever and paying 130,000 to the is not a crime. The edwards case determined that. The edwards case is the precedent. Its the only time theyve ever prosecuted Campaign Finance under this theory and john edwards was acquitted, but the judge did rule this is a crime, can be a crime, and the fact they just said he didnt commit it. The jury said he didnt commit it. The facts in this case were stronger. In the edwards case, there were no witnesses who said we paid this money to influence the election. In the trump case we had two witnesses now saying that. Michael cohen and david pecker. Marks got a point. If donald trump wasnt the president , if he was just donald trump the businessman, he wouldnt be under all this scrutiny and theres a relentless momentum when you have a special counsel who has one case and one target essentially. Hes also the president of the united states. We hold him to a higher standard. And he hasnt released his tax return. The first president in modern history to have a lack of transparency. He has massive conflicts of interest, a giant business he hasnt divested from. The American People expect these will be investigated and if hes committing crimes, hell be held to account. Matt, is there a point at which our poll is showing movement on this. What people believe about what the president is saying about this. Given how marc is talking tonight, i think youre seeing an example of how republicans may dig in and refuse to say that they are going to change their opinions. I mean, i cant imagine scenarios where republicans peel away en masse from donald trump. I mean, hes proven again and again that this is his party more than any other. In the midterms, that proves that. But i do think the wider electorate. There is signs of people, you know, sort of having enough. Of sort of the obfusication and the lies that he has. And so i think there is room to maneuver for mueller as he continues the investigation. And i think thats the question. Its about the lies. Everyone keeps showing that clip of President Trump on air force one talking about Michael Cohen because, it is one of the clearest versions of, okay, this is a story that changed. So does the American Public get to the point they dont like being lied to . Maybe this particular thing isnt the important thing the American Public cares about being lied to. Whether he paid on Stormy Daniels or whatever. But what is the thing that gets more people there . And i think its a good question. Like shouldnt be expect their president not to lie in public . And you even see it with this argument where its gone from he didnt do it to, if he did it its not breaking the law. So even the terms of argument from trump on air force one to trump now is different. Now hes conseeding, yeah, so i paid her, but so what. So i think that having truth from the white house is an important on this one. I get the sense to the point about republicans that the shift may come if there is actually a shoe in the russia collusion question. Thats when they may start to lose senators. I want to get your take on something Rudy Giuliani said this morning. Take a look. Did donald trump know that Michael Cohen was pursuing the trump tower in moscow into the summer of 2016 . According to the answer that he gave, it would have covered all the way up to november of november 2016. He said he had conversations about them earlier they said those conversations stopped in january 2016. The date until you actually sit down and answer the questions and you go back and look at the papers and the youre not going to know what happened. Did giuliani make a mistake there or did he indicate that, in fact, like the president knew more about this until a later date because before wed not known this happened all the way up to the election. You never know with giuliani but my read is he knew what he was saying. November 2016, which is news, by the way. And this goes to the lies shawna was talking about. We know from the Michael Cohen plea that he lied to congress about the timing of this trump tower moscow deal which means that donald trump lied when he said during the campaign and then became president , i had no deals with russia, no investments in russia. If they were negotiating this not only through the primaries but the general election and they did hide it from the public, trecontrary to what giuliani said. This was a business deal that needed Vladimir Putins approval, by the way. In the cohen Court Documents they describe a meeting between donald trump and Michael Cohen about approaching the russian government. So that clearly contradicts what trump is saying about, i didnt have any dealings with russia. Joyce vance, can you weigh in on the significance of this from a legal perspective, if we do know the president lied about this during the election . I think ken makes a really important point when he talks about the john edwards case and reminds us it was a jury that ultimately decided john edwards hadnt violated Campaign Finance law. Here the jury is maybe not a jury inside of a courtroom. Trump and giuliani, they are playing to the American People because their jury is folks who will talk with their congressional officials about whether or not impeachment should take place. And thats why we repeatedly see giuliani as the guy who fronts out bad evidence before it can come to light some place else. Thats why i think were learning from giuliani today that the relationship with moscow went on up into november. So that the public is desensitized to it. They are numb to it. Theres no outrage calling for senators to take action. And that, i think, has been the legal strategy that trump has played to all along knowing that its very unlikely that there will be an indictment. That mueller will seek a formal grand jury indictment against him because of the longstanding doj policy that weve talked about. So this notion that its the American People sitting as a jury and that the mounting lies, the question becomes whether at some point theres a Tipping Point where people understand if you are lied to repeatedly, and if you have to lie about all of your contacts with russia, and if you have to lie about the contacts of so many people in your campaign with russia, that theres an underlying problem that needs to be addressed. We havent reached that point yet, but i think the American People are a very savvy jury, and theyll get there. Its certainly a political strategy that theyre running. Some people are starting to have conversations about whether the founders intended for, if, in fact, the crime was committed in the course of winning the election that the precedent should stand. Weve got more to come. Republicans run for cover as the president s legal challenges mount. And later, senator bob corker says the intelligence is so clear, it would take a jury just 30 minutes to convict the crown prince of saudi arabia for his role in the death jof Jamal Khashoggi. Kasie dc back after this. Thats why i switched to Liberty Mutual. They customized my Car Insurance, so i only pay for what i need. And as a man. Uh. Or a woman. With very specific needs that i cant tell you about say cheese. Mr. Landry . Oh no. Hi mr. Landry Liberty Mutual customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Opportunity is everywhere. Like here. Where you can explore the world knowing you can always find your way home. This is moving day with the best inhome wifi experience and millions of wifi hotspots to help you stay connected. And this is moving day with Reliable Service appointments in a twohour window so youre up and running in no time. Show me decorating shows. This is staying connected with xfinity to make moving. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Stay connected while you move with the best wifi experience and twohour appointment windows. Click, call or visit a store today. A new report out tonight is shedding new light on how extensive russias Disinformation Campaign was during the 2016 president ial cycle. The Washington Post obtained a draft for the Senate Intelligence committee that analyzed millions of posts provided by the major tech companies. It found the operation used most every major social media platform to deliver message s tailored specifically to voters interests in order to help gete. Ken, were still working on obtaining this report but what stuck out to me in the posts reporting is this idea that it was all aimed at helping republicans and then donald trump specifically, and it was over quite a period of time. Because the intelligence assessment on the entire russian effort which included the hacking of social media stuff was a little more equivocal. It said, yes, the russians took longer to come up with this is very definitive, this report by a unit of oxford university. This is one of two prepared for the senate. And the other one is even more damning and elaborate. And they analyzed millions of social media posts across twitter, facebook and google and readit and saw a Massive Campaign in favor of trump that continued after he was elected president and is continuing for all we know to this day. I want to talk also about republicans, though, in all these investigations because theres an excellent piece in the Washington Post about the awkward position that rank and file republicans continue to find themselves in when it comes to these investigations into the president. Oh, i dont do interviews on any of that stuff, senator james risch said when questioned about trumps shifting explanations on efforts to silence womens claims of affairs with him. I dont know anything about that, shelby shed. Stop, senator grassley said. I have not heard what you told me. Until i read what the president said, i wont comment on it. Honestly, i dont think thats a fair question senator kennedy said when asked if he believes trumps explanation. Heres orrin hatch earlier this week. I think the democrats will do anything to hurt this president , anything. This is the Southern District of new york, the u. S. Attorney thats making this allegation. You think hes a republican, do you . Hes employed by the president. Employed by this president. Okay, but i i dont care. All i can say is hes doing a good job as president. He later said in a statement in part, i made comments about allegations against the president that were irresponsible and a poor reflection on my lengthy record of dedication to the rule of law. He said hes confident in bob muellers investigation. This goes back to the question we were discussing earlier which is, at what point i mean, its like patently absurd on its face. You walk around to talk to these republicans. Paul ryan has become the champion of this. The president tweeted today. The president has legal troubles . Im sorry. I havent seen that tweet. To be fair if youll look at this from a political standpoint, what do they gain in what do those republican senators gain or paul ryan gain by calling out the president or calling out an investigation or talking about something they dont totally know whats going on. As all of us have some issues in knowing what mueller is doing because we dont have all the information. From a pr perspective, you dont want to end up in the orrin hatch clip so you say nothing. Is that fair to the American Public or to the media . Does anyone care if its fair to the media . Probably not. Its selfpreg preservation to an extent. Mark pences Vice President pences top aide in the white house, someone we all at this table, i think know, decided he didnt want to be a white house chief of staff. Theres been a lot of suggestion thats because nobody wants to be at the helm of a sinking ship as its going down into the ocean. Do you agree with that assessment . Absolutely disagree. I talk to nick on a regular basis. Hes one of my closest friends and a colleague. I worked with him through the campaign, even when Vice President pence was running for reelection as governor of indiana. It was widely known in the Vice President s circles that nick was planning to leave at the end of the year and go back to georgia. Hed been chief of staff for about 18 months to the Vice President. Its a long job that takes you away from 6yearold triplets, and he wanted to go home. The opportunity, he was honored to be considered for it and gave it a lot of thought. Why was the president under such an assumption he was going to take it . Im sure he was giving it serious consideration. He was probably very close. When it came to signing on the dotted line and the thought of not looking into those 3yearold kids for the next two years, into their faces, waking them up or tucking them into bed, i know nick. Hes very successful, but at the center of his life is his faith and his family. It always has been. Im not going to question his family man credentials. However, he has historically been an ambitious operative. I would agree with that. I dont think he could do that for two years. Joyce vance, im curious for you, i mean one of the Big Questions weve always been asking and there was some pressure over the summer. Republicans started saying, hey, its time for Robert Mueller to wrap it up. Im wondering, from your perspective as somebody who has seen at least im not sure weve seen anything like this, but for someone who has worked in this arena, are there any signs that tell you this investigation is on its way to coming to a close or should we expect this to drag out for six months, a year . People forget how incredibly quick the Mueller Investigation has been. A typical public corruption case, just a domestic one, can take years. Theres a lot of information you have to go through and assess. But i think in many ways, mueller spoiled the country by indicting so quickly. He also, i think, understood how important it was for the country to get closure. If this was any other investigation, i would say that were not close. Theres a lot left to be done. But mueller has worked at a fast pace, and its also increasingly apparent that marks comments, not to the contrary, that the goal posts keep moving in this investigation. Whats happened is that mueller has followed the jurisdiction that Rod Rosenstein gave him very carefully. Hes clearly looking at whether or not theres collusion with the russians, whether or not theres obstruction, and anything else that arises from that investigation, he seems to be sending to other u. S. Attorneys offices to handle. Thats why cohen is in the Southern District of new york. I suspect thats why were seeing other cases in the district of columbia. So muellers been efficient. Whether he can wind this up in six months seems improbable to my prosecutor sensibility, but maybe hes getting close. Joyce vance, ken dilanian, thanks for being here. When we come back he has called you little bob corker. Youve earned a nickname from this president. Does that get under your skin . No. I mean, i am little. Im only 57. So, no. Im short. Once mentioned as a running mate or even secretary of state, he leaves the senate as one of the president s most outspoken critics. Just ahead, my interview with Senate Foreign relations chairman bob corker. Dont go anywhere. You ok there, kurt . Were about to move. Karate helps. Relieve some of the housebuying. Stress. At least you dont have to worry about homeowners insurance. Call geico. Geico. Helps with. Homeowners insurance . Been doing it for years. 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Senator bob corker is among the most prominent republicans who have openly criticized the president. Its an open question now whether corker or other republicans like jeff flake might challenge the president as a candidate in 2020. I sat down with the chair of the Foreign Relations committee to talk about whether a run for the white house is in his future and whether the current president is in serious jeopardy. The Michael Cohen sentencing memo that was laid out last week. It outlined payments that were made to women right before the 2016 election that were designed to help the president get elected, to cover up his affairs. And those memos indicate the president was involved in directing Michael Cohen to do that. Potentially directing him to commit a felly. Do you think theres an Impeachable Offense . So, impeachable, thats a big step. I think the first part, the first time we talked about it, is it illegal, improper . I dont know. I mean, i truly do not know. Im not im not a judiciary person. Thats something that i think will obviously be litigated, but i just dont know. And i can see on one hand somebody coming into a campaign and feeling like theyre being extorted, potentially, you know, wanting something to go away. On the other hand, i understand if it was done to influence a campaign, i can understand the argument on the other side. So i dont really feel qualified to weigh in. I just dont. Should donald trump junior be prosecuted if he lied to congress . Look, i dont want to again, you know, i have no real knowledge of whats happening inside these committees. Let me Say Something much more broad. And that is anybody thats lied to congress should be prosecuted. Anybody. On khashoggi, do you think that saudi arabia has been punished enough for what happened in the killing of Jamal Khashoggi . No. And so we have a difficult situation here. We have a relationship with a country. I think blow out of proportion its important, but it say relationship that weve had for decades. Weve got a crown prince thats out of control. I was in the most recent intelligence briefing, the most crisp and clear intelligence briefing ive been a part of in 12 years, by far. If he was before a jury, the crown prince, he would be convicted in my opinion in 30 minutes. Okay. Ive never seen such compelling evidence in an intelligence briefing. Never. So you cannot have a crown prince who is 33 years old feeling that hes able to get away with murdering a journalist inside a consulate. You cannot let that stand. Now theres also a legislation that menendez is working on. Hes going to bring it up this next year. I support the thrust of it. Some of it operationally. Needs to be worked on, in my opinion. I think then making the country, yes, pay a price for his behavior is the appropriate thing to happen. And i hope that in my absence that the house and senate next year will move toward that end. A lot has changed over the course of the last couple of years in your Republican Party. You, during the campaign, were out with the president , considered for his secretary of state. Now youre leaving washington as one of his most vocal critics. What happened over that arc . I donts know. Ive served with three difference president s and worked in different ways with each. Certainly when things have happened that i felt like needed to be spoken out against, ive done so but weve also worked very closely with him on so many other things. I came here as a very independent person. I was a business guy in a rough and tumble world, and ive always been that way. Ive always been independent. I challenged president bush. I challenged president obama. In fairness, you never said either of them were in an adult day care center. Well, i was trying to be funny and, as it turned out, maybe it was. But i received an incoming tweet over something. And i just responded in my normal way. So yeah. He has called you little bob corker. You are somebody who has earned a nickname from this president. Does that get under your skin . No. I am little. Im only 57. So, no, thats i mean, if thats you ought to see our social feed from people elsewhere. So, no, it doesnt bother me in the least. What do you say to people who are concerned that youre leaving washington at a time when critics of the president are important to have in the Republican Party. Look, i do think its important for people to come here with significant independence. I think there will probably be fewer voices after this last race. There still will be some, but, look, its very important that our politics not be about tribalism but about what is good for our country. And to strongly support those things that are, but to strongly oppose those things that arent. And ive cherished my role here. You know, you build up a lot of Political Capital in these jobs, and to me, the important thing to do is to use it in a manner that enhances our nation. And i have tried to do that every single day that ive been here. What are your plans to keep trying to do that after you leave office in the senate . I have absolutely no idea what im going to do january 3rd. I will walk my successor down the aisle at about noon on january 3rd. Ill catch a flight back to tennessee, and i have no idea what the future holds. I was fortunate to have two really good runs in business, and so, you know, i dont have any economic pressures. I love business and may well likely throw myself into that. What kind of job would you need to have if you wanted to have a bigger impact than the one you hold right now in the senate . This is a very important job, and im glad to have done it. For me, to do it the way i wanted to do it was to serve two terms. As far as other jobs, i dont know. Obviously, the most important job, theres one that changes the whole context of our country and just its amazing how each president comes in and how things change so dramatically based on that persons views and personality and conduct. You know, the same time, doing Something Like that, you know, is a huge step and very few people take that step. Are you actively thinking about running for president . You know, i im not one of those people. I never have been. You know, the old adage is theres 100 senators who wake up every morning and when they look in the mirror, they feel theyre looking at the next president. Ive never been that way. Im not obsessed with it. I do understand the role it plays, the magnificent role it plays in our country. So sometimes i think about it. Obviously, the question comes up, whenever im going home from here or coming up here, going through the airports, it never fails that someone asks about that. But thats not something that this moment, as you and i are talking, that im focused on. At some point, maybe. Do you think that President Trump should be primaried . I do think that weve got to remember what the Republican Party is. Thats not a yes or no answer. So i dont know that i want to get away from here and think about it. This isnt an everyday in the hallway question. I want to get away from here and think about that. What is happening right now is not the standard republicanism that weve had in our country for many, many years. And its very different. So is it important for someone to get out there and at least remind people in the republican primary what republicans generally speaking have been about for generations . Which i think is important to remind people that were going through an anomaly right now as it relates to much of the standard republican focus thats been around for a long time. At the same time, a lot of good things are happening. As a republican, i love the fact that we have so many judges that are being confirmed. I love the fact that the animal spirits are being even more so released in the economy. I do. I love all that. Animal spirits . Ive had those animal spirits and perspiration on the upper lip when something is getting ready to happen. Its exciting to be in business when things are happening. So i love all those things. The tariffs just willy nilly throwing tariffs around the world. Destroying institutions that have served or trying to destroy institutions that have served our country so well, thats a little different. Is there a world in which you think a democratic president would be better for the country than a reelected President Trump . I dont think the democrats yet are capable of electing a centrist. It just feels like theyre being pulled to the side. But i think, for some, you know, someone like that might be appealing. But i dont know. I dont want to speak to that yet. Lets see what happens a year from now. Lets look at it a year from now. Refusing to totally rule out voting for a democrat over President Trump in 2020. My thanks to senator bob corker. Listen to the entire interview on the kasie dc podcast. Subscribe wherever you download your favorite podcasts. Still to come im going to talk live with Michael Cohens spokesman lanny davis. But first, in the midterms, health care was the top issue according to voters in texas. Now a federal judge there has struck down obamacare. Well talk about what could be a very consequential ruling up next. burke parking splat. And we covered it. Talk to farmers. We know a thing or two because weve seen a thing or two. We are farmers. Bumpadum, bumbumbumbum. To give you the protein you need with less of the sugar you dont. [grunting noise] ill take that. 30 grams of protein and 1 gram of sugar. Ensure max protein. In two great flavors. Ensure max protein. Who doesni do. Ve a deal . 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A federal judge in texas ruled the Affordable Care act unconstitutional in what is just the latest blow to obamacare. The Health Care Law has been systematically chipped away since the president took office and the ruling came on the eve of the open enrollment deadline. The white house anticipates the decision will be taken up eventually by the Supreme Court which voted to uphold obamacare in 2012. After the confirmation of 12 trump appointees, the court looks much different now than it did then. Joining the conversation now, chief White House Correspondent for Kaiser Health news, julie. She helped me when i first how long ago did we start covering this . Ten years ago at least. And our conversation off camera has already been pretty spirited. What do we think this is going to mean for people who are worried about making sure if they dont have fulltime employment that their kids will get covered if they have a Health Care Problem . Immediately it should mean nothing. The judge didnt actually issue an injunction to the law. The law goes pop well on. Well be watching the Trump Administration. They said theyd continue to enforce the law as it stands, and a lot of things the Trump Administration is doing on drug prices, on medicare and other things all come from authority from the Affordable Care act. So theyd basically blow up their own Health Agenda if they agreed with this ruling that the entire law had to be eliminated. So we know that congress, at least democrats in congress, plan to try to intervene in this case. Can you explain why thats possible based on how this ruling was crafted . Its a very strange case. 18 republican attorneys general and two republican governors. And suing the Trump Administration because they are in charge. And the Trump Administration said last summer that they didnt agree with the suit but they didnt want to defend the law because they thought maybe just the preexisting condition provision should be struck down now that the tax is gone. Its not so much the mandate is gone but the tax penalty for not having insurance was taken out by last years tax bill. Because the Trump Administration was not defending the case, we had 16 democratic attorneys general step up, and they are defending the law in the case. They are interveners. Congress could also intervene and thats its an important question in this lawsuit because the question is what was Congress Intent last year when in the tax bill they got rid of the tax penalty. Did they mean to leave the rest of the law intact which is what most lawyers said because thats what they did . This judge is reading it that without that tax, the whole rest of the law has to fall. If congress were to actually vote to say, no, this is what we meant, that would have some sway with an appeals court. Interesting. Marc lotter, i cant find a republican on capitol hill who will say that they want to take away coverage for people with preexisting conditions. Its part of why they couldnt get their Obamacare Repeal across the finish line. We heard it over and over again in the campaign. Scott walker in wisconsin was out there running ads about members of his family, even though he was on this lawsuit. How do republicans defend this . Well, very easily. We want to protect people with preexisting conditions. We want to be able to protect children who are 26 years old to stay on there, but you dont need to create governmentrun health care to do that. If you strike all of this down in this lawsuit, where does that leave the American People . Hopefully it will allow us to start over again and go back to the free market principles and put in the Guidelines Health care legislation is like impossible to pass on capitol hill. Unfortunately it is and its not going to get any easier with democrats taking control of the house and republicans even the senate. We can craft ideas and come together and do this. There are areas. I believe we saw vermont that had a high risk pool that protected people who had preexisting conditions that was eliminated when obamacare went into effect. We saw how businesses used to pool their resources together to be able to provide more coverage to people that got eliminated if you had a preexisting condition you paid way more money in Health Care Premium costs. Often times uninsurable. That went away. Im unclear how youd propose to put it back if you had states already taking the lead on that. I believe it was vermont. There were actually florida had a high risk pool closed for 13 years to new entrants. They said well give you insurance but wont cover you for the thing you need it for. I did a story about a woman who had Breast Cancer and was a high risk pool. Well take you but wont cover your Breast Cancer. We can Work Together to find ways to do it. I know republicans have wanted to do this. They will continue to do it. Theyll want to protect people with preexisting conditions. Lets keep the best part of the law and get rid of the bad parts of the law and get rid of the basic fundamental concept that the government is going to tell the citizens you must buy a Consumer Product or else. I just go back to the reality that you cant have both of those things. The reality is, after the Affordable Care act was passed there are certain things that probably needed to be done to the law. There are still things that need to be done. They didnt have the votes and no one wanted to make a deal on that until they tried to help people. You had republicans trying to repeal and replace for the last two years. And they didnt have a good enough replacement to get enough votes to even peel off a couple of democratic votes to get that through. So i dont know how, especially, if we have 2020 coming up, an election cycle, you are going to get these disparate parts to come together to do something thats incredibly complicated. But this is an opportunity, and we know congress prefers to have deadlines. We are going to have a deadline. It would be a major crisis. We should note that ones coverage that deadline might not be until 2020. And its important to know that if the entire law went down, it wouldnt just be the things in the law, the whole rest of the Health Care System is intertwined with this law. It would actually take down a whole lot of the whole Health Care System beyond just the government stuff well let julie have the last word on this one. Thank you so much, julie, mark lauder, Shauna Thomas all being here. When we come back, undercover. How two of the biggest scandals of the midterms involving the florida and georgia midterm races actually ended. Thats why i switched to Liberty Mutual. They customized my insurance, so i only pay for what i need. I insured my car, and my bike. My calves are custom too, but i cant insure those. Which is a crying shame. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Hi susan hs honey . I respect that. But that cough looks pretty bad. Try this new robitussin honey. The real honey you love. Plus the powerful cough relief you need. Mind if i root through your trash . New robitussin honey. Because its never just a cough. [narrator] meet sharks newest robot vacuum. It powerfully cleans from floors to carpets, even pet hair, with ease, and now for cleaning surfaces above the floor, it comes with a built in shark handheld. One dock, two sharks. The shark ion robot cleaning system. Hi. Maria ramirez mom maria Maria Ramirez. Mcdonalds is committing 150 Million Dollars in tuition assistance, education, and career advising programs. Prof Maria Ramirez mom and dad Maria Ramirez to help more employees achieve their dreams. Mom and dad Maria Ramirez our because of smoking. Ital. But we still had to have a cigarette. Had to. But then, we were like. What are we doing . The nicodermcq patch helps prevent your urge to smoke all day. Nicodermcq. You know why, we know how. We want to update you on a pair of stories that could have played a role in two of the most closely watched governors races in the country. First, remember this looming question about andrew gillum, the democratic candidate for governor in florida . So the gillum race seems interesting, especially interesting, because theres this edition of apparently an fbi corruption investigation in the middle of it, what is that, exactly . Well, based on a newly released fbi indictment, we now know that the probe implicates another former tallahassee mayor, not gillum. In fact, gillums name doesnt appear once in all 66 pages of that indictment. You may recall that gillums republican opponent, ron desantis, who went on to win that race, repeatedly tied gillum to the probe. And republicans spent at least 7 million on tv ads that did the same. And then, of course, there was the claim by georges governorelect, brian kemp, that the state Democratic Party tried to hack into the states voter database. That charge came just days before he faced off against democrat stacey abrams. The Atlanta Journalconstitution reports that the claim stemmed from a tip by a georgia voter who found two significant security flaws on the secretary of states website. That voter then reportedly sent an email to the Democratic Party in georgia and apparently that was the extent of the democrats involvement. More than a month later, state democratic Officials Say they still havent heard anything from Law Enforcement about the alleged crime. When we come back, sam stein, clint watts, kimberly watkins, and Julia Ainsley joins me live. Plus, my conversation with lany davis. His client, Michael Cohen, says he feels like he has his freedom back. A quick programming note, at 9 00 tonight right after kc dc, the years most. Our dad was in the hospital. Because of smoking. But we still had to have a cigarette. Had to. But then, we were like. What are we doing . The nicodermcq patch helps prevent your urge to smoke all day. Nicodermcq. You know why, we know how. So shark invented duo clean. While deep cleaning carpets, the added soft brush roll picks up large particles, gives floors a polished look, and fearlessly devours piles. Duo clean technology, corded and cordfree. And if you get lost, just hit me on the old horn. Man toms my best friend, but ever since he bought a new house. Tom its a 10 cover . Oh, okay. Didnt see that on the website. Hes been acting more and more like his dad. Come on, guys jump in the waters fine tom pritchard. How we doin . Hi, there. Tom pritchard. Can we get a round of jalapeno poppers for me and the boys, please . Ive been saving a lot of money with progressive lately, so. Progressive cant protect you from becoming your parents. But we can protect your home and auto when you bundle with us. A federal judge strikes down obamacare. Striking down the whole law, creating uncertainty for millions. The ruling was absurd. Its an awful ruling. An awful, awful, awful, awful decision. Lets make no mistake about it. It has no immediate impact. Theres no change immediately in obamacare. Were going fight this tooth and nail. And we havent even mentioned the chances of a government shutdown. The president says he wants to see 5 billion in funding for his border wall. Are americans going to see a shutdown over christmas . I would certainly hope not. Theres absolutely no excuse to shut down government. Were going to do whatever is necessary to build the border wall and stop this ongoing crisis of illegal immigration. This is a very does that mean a shutdown . If it comes to it, absolutely. He is not going to get the wall in any form. Cohen told me that the Campaign Finance violations he committed were ordered by donald trump. Clearly, this was not a good week for President Trump. The evidence is certainly piling up. You see what were talking about . Its not a crime. Its not a crime, george. Even if it were true, its not a crime. Paying 130,000 to stormy whatever and whatever to the other one is not a crime. This is a witch hunt. Im telling you, george, theyll go try to look for unpaid parking tickets. Theyre a joke over my undead body, but you know, i could be dead. Stormy whatever. Not stormy whatever. Welcome back to kc d. C. Joining me, kimberly atkins, politics editor for the daily beast, sam stein, nbc news National Security and justice reporter, Julia Ainsley. And with me from new york, former fbi special agent and msnbc National Security analyst, clint watts. Sam stein, can we talk about Rudy Giuliani for a second . Because weve gone a few a little while without a performance like todays. Yeah. What did you kind of take away from, hes essentially gone from saying, no, the president didnt know anything about this, like, nothing to see here, to saying, well, if something did happen here, it was definitely not illegal. Well, what i took away from it is that the president needs a better legal team, honestly. Of course, rudy is not a traditional lawyer. Hes more of a pr strategist. Hes a pr strategist whos winging it and seeing what happens. And sometimes, i guess it works, but sometimes you end up with flailing appearances on cable news shows. And from the beginning, he has been hurt by the fact that donald trump has told different stories and different iterations of this process. So we started where he had no filler, they were lying, there was no payment, he had nothing to do with it. And then it was, well, if something happened, cohen was involved, had no knowledge of it. And now, you know, maybe i paid it, but it certainly wasnt illegal, certainly by Campaign Finance laws. And you know, thats a really hard fact set to work, when you have a client whos constantly changing his story, you, too, then have to constantly change your story. So part of me feels a little bit bad for rudy, but part of me recognizes that these are the clients hes chosen. And lets think about the timing, too, here. Lets think about the week he has chosen to come out and start making these comments after he had been quiet for a little while. You had three Court Hearings this week, all people who could be key cooperators against the president in the russia probe, starting with paul manafort, who has not been cooperating well. So the judge and prosecutors are dropping the handle on him. You have the cohen sentencing and you have maria butina, who isnt even being charged by mueller, but her cooperation could be key in all of this. So i think the heat its wherever that heat kind of turns up a little bit that giuliani has his moments where he kind of snaps, and sometimes ends up sharing a little news with us, like he did today about how far into 2016 there were actually conversations with the russians. Right, about a moscow trump tower. And its always difficult to know if theyre just sort of winging it and saying things that theyll then retract and how much is a factbased conversation. He seemed to be saying that that was exactly what they put and the president told raobert mueller in those filings. So as we were taught during the funeral of president george h. W. Bush, humility is not a common affliction here in the nations capital. Those who travel the high road of humility in washington, d. C. Are not bothered by heavy traffic. This week and next, we are witnessing an unusual effect. The humbling of the once proud. Uh, Michael Cohen, you told me day one, hes going to win. I did. Day one. You never had a doubt. Because i know mr. Trump. Ive stood by him, shoulder to shoulder, for the past decade. Ive seen him in action. I know when donald trump wants something. Theres nothing thats going to stop him from achieving his goal. Their goal is to malign a very good man. A man who i truly believe will go down in history, if they leave him alone as the best president michael, theyre not going to leave him alone. Well, im going to do whatever it is that i can do to ensure that they leave him alone. Ill do anything to protect mr. Trump. This week, Michael Cohen asked for leniency in court, saying that he has been living in a, quote, personal and mental incarceration ever since he went to work for donald trump. And then, theres maria butina. After 18 months, they appear to have one picture of her with a russian, whos head of the russian cultural center, who shows russian movies to russian who is live in washington. So, to me, i think its an overblown case. That was her lawyer. This week, she pleaded guilty to conspireing to act as a foreign agent. Next week, it will be onetime National Security adviser, mike flynns turn. The very last thing that john podesta just said is, no individual too big to jail, that should include people like Hillary Clinton. I mean, five people around her have been given immunity, to include her former chief of staff, when you are given immunity, that means that youve probably committed a crime. So whos going to find that winter chill of humility next . The Trump Organization is being investigated. The Trump Foundation is being investigated. The trump campaign, the trump transition, the trump inaugural committee, and of course, the Trump Administration, they are all being investigated. So, kimberly atkins, it seems like, possibly, the next place this all goes may be donald trump jr. Something that we know is causing quite a bit of consternation among, you know, for the president and those closest to him. How does he, the president navigate that . Its going to be difficult. Because its going to weve seen in the past, the president , when someone who is close to his orbit, while theyre in his orbit, he defends them. And, you know, tries his best to denounce the investigation and the minute they get caught up, they plead guilty, they start cooperating, then hes never heard of them before, right . They played minor roles in his campaign. They were just a coffee boy. Michael who . You cant really do that. Stormy who . Don jr. Was just a great point. You cant really do that with a family member. So thats where this investigation gets close to donald trump jr. , who obviously was at that crucial trump tower meeting. So he has always been a central figure in this investigation. Two other areas of investigation with the inaugural committee for example, might implicate vaccine trump or jared kushner. These were his family members. So hes going to have to take an approach. He cant say, these people werent involved. We know what his approach is. Hes said, hes just a boy and hes never been in politics before. And this was all foreign to him. And of course hed make mistakes. Thats why he agreed to the meeting. But hes just a boy. Of course, this is the same person that he let run his business right, he was a Top Executive in the Trump Organization. There is some contradiction there, yes. The other really tricky thing about it being his son is, i was thinking about this this week with manafort, who got in trouble for talking with white house officials. It would have been okay if manaforts lawyer had, but not manafort himself. What happens if thats your son. You cant cut off that line of communication like you would with someone else whos going out and cooperating and youre no longer legally allowed to talk to them. Its pretty tough to put up that wall between a father and son. Indeed. Clint watts, can i get you to weigh in on something sam was mentioning. We were just talking about Rudy Giuliani, suddenly acknowledging, it seems, that there were conversations about this trump tower in moscow, all the way up to november of 2016. So that means all of those times the president said he had no business dealings with russia, no interests in russia, that perhaps that was actually not true for a much longer period of time than we had potentially originally known. What kind of impact does having a relationship like that make on a person, particularly someone who, frankly, who would have need Vladimir Putin to get that done . Yeah, its pretty funny. We went from no contact at all to just the entire time, right . We went from none to all, very quickly. And so, yeah, this is how it works. Trump was a target for the russians and whether it was online, them supporting him or behind the tables, trying to wo work out some business deals, of course, they knew about all of these levers. Which is frightening, because in the last two years, theyve really had the president in a position of compromise, which has always been the question. Did the russians know more than the rest of the American Government and American People know about what that relationship was . And whats really going to be frightening as it continues to unravel is when will or whether not the republicans kind of come to grips with the fact that this was going on the entire time. I would imagine the president didnt think he was going to win. And because he likes money, he kept trying to keep those relationships maybe in play, so that after the election, he could exploit them. So hes put himself into a terrible trap here. And its nothing the Mueller Investigation has done to him. Hes done it to himself, by playing both sides, trying to be both a profiteer and a competitive politician, hes, you know, had the worstcase scenario. He won the presidency and maybe didnt want to do it. And has all of these business ties that have left him exposed. Its a great point. Clint, i also want to talk with you about this new report out tonight. It shows just how extensive russias Disinformation Campaign was during the 2016 president ial cycle. The Washington Post obtained a draft of a report prepared for the Senate Intelligence committee. It analyzed millions of posts provided by the major tech companies. And it found that the operation used most every major social media platform to deliver messages that were tailored specifically to voters interests and specifically to get donald trump elected. Clint, you actually testified before that very same senate panel back in march of 2017, and stressed then how this russian influence back earlier than we previously thought, potentially dashing the chances of candidates during the primary season. The end of 2016 and start of 2016, the russian influence system started pushing themes and messages, seeking to influence the outcome of the u. S. President ial election. They were in full swing during both the democratic and republican primary season and may have helped to sink the hopes of candidates long before the field narrowed. Senator rubio, in my opinion, you anecdotae tallal senator rubio, in my opinion, you anecdotae tallaly suffered these efforts. How much credit should we give the russians for Donald Trumps position in the white house . You know, i think there are a couple of things to look at. When i was writing my book, there were two states that i thought just if i had my own estimate of it, wisconsin and michigan, were two states that i thought the russians probably had a heavy impact in. Overall, its very hafrd to tak away the comey letter in that last week and dismiss it from the russian social media influence effort. But i can also say there were certain narratives that were completely driven by the russians. The hacking of the d. C. , that led to the sort of narrative Bernie Sanders got a raw deal was entirely driven by them. Without the russian play, you dont have that. And when you look at the social media manipulation, it was a twoplus year effort. And the third year. This report, what will be interesting about it is it wont really touch on those accounts that have been shut down since the election. If you remember, just in the last succession months, facebook and instagram have done large shutdowns again. Weve seen twitter come through with more account closures. And this has continued on. That was the troll farm accountant that you heard about that came out in a separate criminal complaint early on. This effort has continued. Its broad scale and across every platform. And theres no reason to believe that its been completely stocked, even at this point. So it will continue on. Im really interested, not just to see this report come out, but what the Senate Committee recommends done in response to this. So for the table, the political implications here of what clint just laid out. I mean, is there a point where the people who have been trumps staunchest supporters become concerned that he had all of this help from russia . Or do we just simply never get there . I dont think we ever get there. I think they would dismiss the idea that they were manipulated. Its inherently human to think that some outside influence had that effect on how you voted. I think the bigger question is, what do we do Going Forward . Full disclosure, wife works for facebook, yada yada yada. Which has been get mrg and more fun for you as the stories keep on oh, a joy. Obviously, the social Media Companies have a heavy load to lift. Part of the reason is pause the government hasnt stepped in in a heavy way. But part of its their platforms. So now that theyre on notice, im curious to see how aggressive they will act in the 2020 elections. The other thing i want to see, the nrfc and dnccc tried to create a compact. It didnt go well. The reason they never found an agreement is the republican side, what are we supposed to do if a publication writes a story on stolen materials . Should we just ignore it . How could we possibly ignore it . I think therell be a renewed pressure on the committees to try to come to some sort of agreement. I dont think theyll get there, but thats the kind of thing im looking for. And its something with news organizations have to reckon, too. I remember having these conversations around the hacks in 2016 by a previous news organization. And a lot of this, too, i was what struck by clints testimony back in march, him talking about how they were trying to figure out who was on their side. Russians clearly were going to go against even republicans who had antirussian platforms and were seeing that in this report. I understand my colleague, ken dilanian, therell be one thats even more detailed coming soon. But when i was sitting in Court Hearing the statement of offense against maria butina, thats exactly what she was doing. She would meet with these republicans at these friendship dinners and she would gauge their level of support for russia and report that back. She was a pretty lowlevel player, but it shows that that was the she did manage to get in, akds to some access to some of the highest levels for sure. Clint watt, thank you so much, sir. Clint is the author of messing with the enemy. Still to come, Stephen Miller says the president is willing to shut down the government over the border wall. Plus, congressman adam smith about to become the chairman of the House Armed Services committee. Well talk to him about whether there will be ramifications for sending american troops down to the border. But first, lanny davis, the spokesman and former lawyer for Michael Cohen joins me live about his clients case and future, especially after the president called his former fixer a rat. K cdc back of this. [narrator] the typical vacuum head has its limitations, so shark invented duo clean. While deep cleaning carpets, the added soft brush roll picks up large particles, gives floors a polished look, and fearlessly devours piles. Duo clean technology, corded and cordfree. And fearlessly devours piles. Opportunity is everywhere. Like here. Where you can explore the world knowing you can always find your way home. Our because of smoking. Ital. But we still had to have a cigarette. Had to. But then, we were like. What are we doing . The nicodermcq patch helps prevent your urge to smoke all day. Nicodermcq. You know why, we know how. Welcome back to kasie dc. Joining me now is adviser and former attorney for Michael Cohen, lanny davis. Sir, its great to have you on the show. Nice to be here, kasie. Lets start with Michael Cohens decision to sit down and tell his side soof the story on camera, something thats pretty unusual for someone whos just been sentenced to prison. Whyd he do it . President trump decided to attack his family, on top of all the other personal attacks on michael by the president of the united states. He gets that. But to attack his wife, her father, his uncle, whatever else mr. Trump does, michael thought that he had to defend his family. Does Michael Cohen think that the president is a bully . Yes. And partly, the transformation that hes undergone, some of those clips that ive saw are cringing, knowing him the way i know him now, that he evolved once he became president and saw somebody that he thought was dangerous to the country, and thats the process that he went through that i actually call a transformation that led him to this moment, to tell the truth about donald trump. And you believe that thats genuine . Its not out of convenience . Yes. Because the president called him a rat. The president called him a rat. I did put my own message up on twitter today that, lets get this straight, the president is the top Law Enforcement officer in the country. He calls somebody who tells the truth to the prosecutors a rat and someone who stonewalls prosecutors sympathetic. That sounds more like the rule of the mob than it does the rule of law under a president. So, going back to your question, michael, over a long period of time, convinced me that it was real. Ive seen other transformations in peoples lives. But his willingness to publicly stand up to the president of the united states, be attacked personally, have his life virtually destroyed at this point, going to prison for three years, refuses to accept a pardon, told me to say that publicly, all other ways of testing sincerity, i think to me, hes met, but the ultimate test is what he says. Is it corroborated and mr. Mueller, i can assure you, has corroborated everything that michael has told him over 70 hours. Lets talk about that for a second. I want to play a little bit of Michael Cohens interview, where he talks about whether hes still cooperating with Robert Mueller. Take a look. Are you still cooperating . If they want me, im here. And im willing to answer whatever additional questions that they may have for me. Right. So youre saying there are certain areas that you cant get into, because youre still cooperating with them . Correct. And out of respect for process. Who are the issues that the special counsels office still needs Michael Cohens help with . So im in the same ground rules that we have such respect for mr. Mueller. And ive known mr. Mueller off and on through the years, that to interfere or be in front of him on any issue is just inappropriate. And michael, from the very beginning, said, even the Southern District of new york were much more hostile to him. Would you describe his cooperation with the special counsel as without limit . Yes. Okay. Now, in the beginning, he had a stutterstep or a mistaken answer that was ambiguous and they werent sure that he was telling them the truth. He went back, cleared it up, and from that point on, you read what will mueller said about him. And read the issue, core issues. Mr. Mueller said that Michael Cohen has provided information that addresses the core issues of im paraphrasing, of this investigation. And you can be sure that those core issues does involve the issue of russia and the issue of influencing our election by russians. And you address what that issue was, where there was some ambiguity, or not . I cant. Even if i knew, and im not sure i knew everything myself, i cant, because weve both agreed, im no longer his lawyer, im just a friend or an adviser, whatever you want to call me, that doing anything in front of mr. Mueller would be inappropriate. Okay, i also want to play for you that Rudy Giuliani was on this morning talking a little bit about exactly how long the communication around the trump tower moscow continued. Take a look. Did donald trump know that Michael Cohen was pursuing the trump tower in moscow into the summer in 2016 . According to the answer that he gave, it would have covered all the way up to november of covered up to november 2016. Said he had conversations about this. Earlier, they said those conversations stopped in january 2016. I mean the date, i mean, until you actually sit down and answer the questions, and you go back and look at the papers and look at the, youre not going to know what happened. So, setting aside some of the confusion and factual errors in that statement, lets focus in on the fact that he said in the president s answers, the president said that communication around trump tower moscow continued to november of 2016. Thats different from what your former client has said. Are you aware, is Rudy Giuliani correct that those conversation continued longer . So i dont know i know that michael has said june 16 that he had conversations. Giuliani may be referring to other facts that are beyond michaels. But i dont if you noticed, when you mentioned giuliani, i halffrowned. Yes, as you are now. I know he has a tough job as a lawyer, but this is the man who caused me to go on a rival network called cnn with a tape and mr. Giuliani said, it was Michael Cohen who used the word cash, who brought up the mcdougal hush money payoffs. And i listened to the tape. And i said to my colleagues, wait a minute, this is the opposite of what giuliani is saying. He must have listened to the same tapes. Does he think hes going to get away with it . Lets play the tape pip had such fun that night, dont believe, im a Hillary Clinton biased democrat. Believe your own ears, mr. Giuliani. The tape contradicts what youre saying. And giuliani has had problems with the facts, because his client has had problem with the facts. And in a funny way, i have sympathy for mr. Giuliani, even though he knows hes not telling the truth, but hes reflecting his client who doesnt tell the truth. I also want to ask you about one kind of key fact in the steele dossier or perhaps not a fact but one key assertion. And they say that cohen traveled to prague to arrange secret payments to russian hackers. Did that trip ever happen . No. No. Everybody, america, we all love kasies show. No, no prague, ever, never. He posted it on the internet when his lawyers from mcdermott, will, and emory answered that question and he actually instructed me when i was serving as his lawyer, dont answer it anymore, because its one of these silly things that constantly gets repeated. So the answer is, no, hes never been to prague, and a reporter asked me, what about the suburbs of prague, no. Anywhere nearby. Okay. Well, thank you for putting that on the record here on kasie dc. And also, one other detail here. In february of 2017, the New York Times reports that cohen and felix sater are pushing a proposal to relieve u. S. Sanctions on russia. They reported that cohen handdelivered this proposal to Michael Flynns office, the week before flynn resigned. And of course, that resignation to do with conversations with the russian ambassador, sergey kislyak. Has the special counsels office asked cohen about this at all . Is this a line of thinking or discussion that youve been involved in with Michael Cohen . I hate to come on your show and constantly say, i cant answer your question, but i actually cant answer your question and dont know the answer to your question, so sorry to disappoint you. Youre not disappointing at all, sir. Thank you so much for coming on today. Lanny davis, really appreciate it. We will be right back after this. Liberty mutual customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. Great news for anyone wh uh uh im the one who delivers the news around here. Liberty mutual has Just Announced that they can customize your Car Insurance so that you only pay for what you need. This is phoebe buckley, on location. Uh. Thanks, phoebe. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Do i use a toothpaste that whitens my teeth, or one thats good for my teeth . Now i dont have to choose. 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Originally, customs and Border Patrol said the family hadnt provided the little girl with food or water in several days. The father is pushing back through lawyers, saying to the news nororganizations that ther was water, there was food available on that journey. The bigger question is in the aftermath of this tragedy, how is the u. S. Government handling it. Dhs put out a statement in which they talked about parents not bringing their children through the desert, really laying the blame on parents. I had a chance to talk to congressman beto orourke. It is his district nearby in el paso. Take a listen to what he had to say. A 7yearold girl died yesterday and dhs said as part of their statement, look, parents shouldnt be doing this. What is your reaction to that . You do not travel 2,000 miles with your 7yearold child for kicks, to take advantage of another country. You do it because youre desperate. What would cause you to take your child and make that journey, unless it was the only thing you could do to save your childs life. So our responsibility, once those parents arrive here with their children is to make sure that those kids are okay and that they fully survive that journey. And that we follow our own asylum laws, and the best traditions and promise of this country. So you have there congressman beto orourke, of course, emotionally reacting to that statement from the department of Homeland Security. He was visiting a Migrant Center in juarez. This is where a number of migrants are now waiting before they go to the border, to apply for asylum. Its a bit of a new development down there. Usually, people can present themselves with asylum at the border, but recently, its been worked out with local groups on the ground that theyll wait here in that center. Its worth noting that these numbers on the arms, theres been a lot of attention paid there. The u. S. Government asked mexican authorities to sign numbers to people. The u. S. Government did not say, necessarily, to write them on the arms. Thats being done in large parts by grassroots groups in mexico who, of course, are trying to bring more attention to this issue, kasie. Julia ainsley, you cover the department of Homeland Security regularly. I mean, this seems like a pretty, i mean, astonishing thing for them to say, you know, she hadnt eaten or consumed water, its your fault, compared to what weve learning from the other side of the story. The conversation that we want to have out of this is that somehow these parents arent like parents we see here. These are parents who are doing things to their children that dont make them good parents. And really the conversation that we should be having is the fact that we should actually be talking about this with the wall. If trump builds a border wall and puts up more barriers, more parents will be forced to go around the regular places where they normally would and make more dangerous journeys. We saw that when you built barriers in san diego, under the clinton administration. There were more deaths in the desert. A lot of times, there are ngos that go out and try to provide hydration, theyll provide water, theyll try to provide something, some kind of medical help, but sometimes its useless. And weve even seen videos of Border Patrol agents kicking over this water bottle. So its hard to get beyond those images and to take them at their word, this narrative, especially when we find out that a big part of its false. And the main thing is that not only could this happen again, as we put up more barriers, it could happen again because the Border Patrol allowed her to go on an hour and a half bus ride before they eventually airlifted her and gave her medical attention. Her father said, she has symptoms, shes throwing up, and they still had to ride on a bus for an hour and a half before something was done. And eventually he said, shes not breathing. At the end of breathing. Incredibly tragic story. Joining me, adam smith, currently the Ranking Member on the House Armed Services committee and will become its chairman in january. Sir, thank you so much for coming on the show tonight. Good to see you. Thank you, appreciate the chance. Lets start where we were just talking about what is going on the border and this 7yearold girl who died in Border Patrol custody. What is your reaction to this . Do you think what the department of Homeland Security said about this is acceptable . Absolutely not. I mean, this is a preventable death. And it comes from a very clear policy mistake that i think the administration is making. President trump is basically trying to, in his mind, discourage people to try to come to the border, by making it as difficult as possible. You referenced the Border Patrol agents pouring out water that was put out for migrants. And that is just an inhumane, a terrible way to treat this problem. Look, this is a huge challenge with the number of people seeking asylum. But the solution isnt that hard. We need to get more Administrative Law judges down there and more people down there to process the asylum requests quickly. Because keep in mind, this 7yearold, they werent trying to sneak into our country. This isnt the invasion that donald trump describes. They turned themselves in to the Border Patrol, to seek asylum. We should treat it that way, and we should take a responsibility to protect the health of these migrants, to the extent we can. And as congressman orourke said, theyre not making this journey, just because theyre bad parents. Theyre making this journey, because they dont think they can survive where they are. They dont think their child can survive. And u. S. , i think, could have a much better policy in terms of how we handle this crisis. Im not denying its difficult. But to look at it and say, look, we just need to put up as much block as possible. If they die, they die, that will discourage them . Thats not the values our country should have. I want to ask you also about the ongoing fight about money to build the border wall. Julia ainsley referenced that these kinds of barriers can frankly contribute sometimes to an kpaexacerbation of these tra events. Heres Stephen Miller, the president s adviser, on these types of issues, talking on cbs face the nation this morning. Take a look. What is the president s plan and will he shut it down to get this 5 billion in border wall funding . Were going to do whatever is necessary to build the border wall, to stop the ongoing crisis of illegal immigration. And that means a shutdown . If it comes to it, absolutely. This is a very fundamental issue. The Democrat Party has a simple choice. They can either choose to fight for americas working class or to promote illegal immigration. You cant do both. Your response, sir . Those statements idiotic and they totally misrepresent whats going on at the border. And look, im all for border security. As a country, we should have a right to control who comes into our country and when. And we have spent an enormous amount of money on border security. In fact, weve had zero net migration from mexico in the last five years, for a variety of different reasons. We have, you know, quadrupled the number of border agents. Weve brought in drones. Weve brought in the national guard. If youre talking about people trying to sneak across the border, we have more than put the money up to try to stop that. And this is the fundamental misunderstanding, or i dont know if its a misunderstanding or if theyre simply trying to demagogue the issue for xenophobic and racist reasons. These people coming to the border now, theyre seeking asylum. You dont need to build a wall. Theyre turning themselves in. The question is, how do we process this increase in asylum seekers, because of the violence and poverty that exists in central america. So, to say that building a wall is going to protect us is just unbelievably ignorant of what is happening down there. Now, weve had a significant increase in asylum seekers. And a policy response is needed. Theres no question about that. But instead, they want to demagogue the issue and make it about illegal immigration. Thats not what its about. You could build a wall, theyll still show up and turn themselves in, and well still have to deal with that problem. Quickly, sir, before i let you go, while this fight plays out and we worry about whether theres going to be a christmas shutdown, there have been some conversations behind the scenes, from the administration weve seen reporting about, that perhaps they could repurpose money thats been allocated to the department of defense to do some of the border wall building. The president has vowed in tweets that hell have the military do it if Congress Wont pay fittor it. Youll be in charge next year of allocating that funding for the department of defense. Whats your reaction to the president s suggestions that they can do that. There was strong opposition to spending this out of the department of defense dollars. We have many needs in National Security. We cant steal money from there. Number one. Number two, he cant do it without a reprogramming request to congress. So he cannot do it on his own, legally. And congress, both prrepublican and democrats, do not think the dod money should go towards building a wall on the border. We have many other National Security priorities that are vastly more important. All right. Congressman and future chairman, adam smith. Thank you so much for being here. Cal perry, Julia Ainsley, thank you both for your reporting, as well. When we come back, the curtain rises on 2020. More kasie dc in just a moment. I wanted more from my copd medicine. Thats why ive got the power of 123 medicines with trelegy. The only fdaapproved 3in1 copd treatment. Trelegy. The power of 123 trelegy 123 trelegy with trelegy and the power of 123, im breathing better. Trelegy works 3 ways to. Open airways,. Keep them open. And reduce inflammation. For 24 hours of better breathing. Trelegy wont replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. Trelegy is not for asthma. Tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high Blood Pressure before taking it. Do not take trelegy more than prescribed. Trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. Call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling,. Problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. Think your copd medicine is doing enough . Maybe you should think again. Ask your doctor about oncedaily trelegy and the power of 123. Trelegy 123 save at trelegy. Com. Every Insurance Company tells you they can save you money. Save up to 10 when you bundle with esurance. Including me, esurance spokesperson dennis quaid. Hes a pretty good spokesperson. Ehhh. So when i say, drivers who switched from geico to esurance saved an average of 412, you probably wont believe me. Hey, actor lady whose scene was cut. Hi. But you can believe this esurance employee, nancy abraham. Seriously, send her an email and ask her yourself. No emails. No emails. When insurance is affordable, its surprisingly painless. Its almost 2019. Which means, its 2020. At least, if you work in politics. This week, two texans addressed 2020 rumors. Well, three texans. And over in iowa, the Des Moines Register has a new poll out on democrats, who might run in 2020. Former Vice President joe biden leads among iowans, with 32 , followed closely by i guess, not so closely senator Bernie Sanders with 19 and beto orourke with 11 . All right, guys, are we ready for this . No, were not. This is obviously very early, to the point of potentially being meaningless, in terms of polls of iowa. Someone was saying that, you know, many of the contender who is actually won in iowa were not even listed in some of these early polls. What can we take from this, sam . Nothing. No, fine. I think to a certain degree, obviously, a million things will happen between now and then. And we dont even know if any of these people are actually running. I think theres two things you can take from it. One is that biden starts well, we expected him to start, which is strength, but not great strength. Someone who 35 of the Democratic Party would support. You can moua thve that ball up little bit, but you know, he has his problems, too. And the second thing that i noticed with respect to beto orourke is sort of fundamentally, hes in the position that obama was in 2008. Obviously, theres huge differences. But its that sort of third place, under the radar, room to grow position. The difference, of course, is obama was an historic once in a generation figure. We dont know that about beto. He lost his senatorial race. Can we talk for a second, too, act the fact that Kirsten Gillibrand was on fox news and she was asked whether it was a good idea to have the person that was most exciting the progressive base be a white dude. And she essentially said, no, i dont believe that, because this has been the year of the woman and minority voters have been, you know, obviously the president says repeatedly offensive things constantly. Whats your take . Yeah, shes not the only democrat saying that. Look, there are a lot of people saying that democrats have to take a look walk and chew gum o too in this election. Its not about talking about the economy or talking about racial injustice. They have to do both. They have to connect and bring people together across the political spectrum to be a really qualified candidate. I think thats one reason that people thats something that people do think that joe biden will be able to do, although i think a lot of his popularity is name recognition, frankly. But i think people have a different vision for what they want the Democratic Party to be, especially given trump policies and things that have been done, that have been seen as racist, frankly. And thats one check that the democratic nominee has to be able to do and is a white male the right harbinger for that message . I think a lot of people are worried that its not. And theres already a concern about making sure that for these potential candidates, that they are getting square with many key voting constituencies, including africanamerican voters. Here was Elizabeth Warren speaking at historically black college. As a country, we need to stop pretending that the same doors open for everyone, because they dont. Im not a person of color and i havent lived your life or experienced anything like the subtle prejudice or more overt harm that you may have experienced just because of the color of your skin. But, rules matter. So thats some cleanup on aisle 6 for what she did with the dna testing. Yeah, definitely thats the context, although i will offer the fact that i think that basically every white candidate who is running in the democratic primary will give a version of that speech. And they have to and they should. I think one of the prevailing lessons from 2016, and this is no fault of bernies. I mean, this is who he was, but bernie did not connect those dots that you were talking about. He presented the racial elements of his policy through a strictly economic lens. Everything was about economic justice. Even though he actually had a personal story around civil rights, he almost refused to tell it. Of course. He was arrested, of course, as a demonstrator in the civil rights movement. And for some reason, he never used that biographical detail to the fullest extent that he could. I will add one other component here, that i think that we shouldnt fall into an iowacentric view of things. The poll was obviously done in iowa. But in this cycle, californians will be voting around the same times as iowans through early mail vote. And there happens to be a senator from california who seems to be thinking of running and is already compiling a big email list and its not dianne feinstein. And its a woman of color. For sure. All right, coming up, a problem that has plagued capitol hill for decades finally gets some bipartisan attention. Legs of lur and arms of steel he eats a bowl of hammers at every meal he holds your house in the palm of his hand hes your home and auto man big jim, hes got you covered great big jim, there aint no other so, this is covered, right . Yes, maam. Take care of it for you right now. Giddyup hi this is jamie. We need some help. Discover. O. I like your card, but im absolutely not paying an annual fee. Discover has no annual fees. Really . Yeah. We just dont believe in them. Oh nice. You would not believe how long ive been rehearsing that. No annual fee on any card. Only from discover. Why didnt you book your on a travel site . On at hilton. Com, i get the price match guarantee. And i can choose from their 14 Different Hotel brands, so i get the right hotel for every member of my family. Like a doubletree for my cousins who love their warm chocolate chip cookies. A homewood suites for my uncle who likes a long stay. A hampton for my sister and her kids. Thats a lot of syrup and the waldorf astoria Beverly Hills for me. But i thought your Family Vacation was in miami . It is. I hear theyre having a great time. Book at hilton. Com and get the hilton price match guarantee. If you find a lower rate, we match it and give you 25 off that stay. Lets do the thing that you do. Lets clear a path. Lets put down roots. Lets build something. Lets do the thing that you do. Lets do the thing that changes the shape of everything. That pushes us forward and keeps us going. Lets do the work. Women have been allowed to enter the workplace in numbers that are unprecedented in this decade. But having entered the workplace, they suffer enormous inequities, and the most egregious inequity is Sexual Harassment. When i was working in congress in the 90s for congressman wolf, just a few years after dorina, there were members like Goodtime Charlie wilson, who is hearty heaarhar who openly bragged about hiring women based on their looks and breast size. 13 months after the me too movement came to capitol hill, new legislation on Sexual Harassment in congress is now heading to President Trumps desk. It holds members of congress, not taxpayers, personally liable to pay Sexual Harassment settlements pinpoint requires a public report of any settlements and the members of congress involved. It offers advocates and legal representation to victims of sexual misconduct. And it removes the mandatory cooling off and counseling periods, those were forced, and they often dissuaded people from coming forward with their claims. It also expands protections to interns and to fellows, who previously had no recourse, if they were harassed. We have covered about a half dozen members of congress who resigned, following a variety of sexualrelated allegations. And we will continue to follow all of these stories, hold members accountable, and cover any of these developments, as they come. When we return, what to watch for in the week ahead. Ke. Liberty mutual customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Havi is not always easy. Plaque psoriasis its a longdistance journey, and you have the determination to keep going. Humira has a proven track record of being prescribed for over 10 years. Humira works inside the body to target and help block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to symptoms. 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Duo clean technology, corded and cordfree. Uh uh i deliverberty andthe news around here. Iles. Sources say Liberty Mutual customizes your Car Insurance, so you only pay for what you need. Over to you, logo. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Welcome back. After kasie dc tonight, Brian Williams and Nicole Wallace take a look back at this roller coaster year in the years ten most. Join them for an indepth look at the years top ten people and movements that have dominated the news and people and culture in 2018. I want to take this opportunity to do a little selfpromotion. We have two stories coming out that im really proud of. The lowbrow one is written by will summer and he interviewed witches about what they feel about trump constantly talking about a witch hunt. Surprisingly, theyre a little upset. Surprising. The highbrow one, which is, you know, and it dpets togets t conversation we were having earlier, about a Community Pediatrician and looks at what happened at the border, but looks at it through a medical lens and what shock and dehydration does to the system. Its horrifying. His conclusion is, one of the big problems is we didnt have medical professionals on site. Kimberly . Sam has taken all your time. Well see what happens with the shutdown. Shutdowns have become common in washington, but this time it seems like a, its really going to happen, b, its really going to happen right before christmas, making people lose their paychecks, and c, its going to happen over immigration. Thats going to be the last fight that the president has before he flies off to maralago. Merry christmas, happy holida holidays. That does it for us tonight on kasie dc. Well be back on december 30th at 7 00 p. M. Eastern. For now, good night from washington. This is an msnbc special presentation. Very consistent. Im a very stable genius. Touchdown confirmed so [ bleep ] proud of you guys 2018 has been a wild ride. Bipartisan. Irrational. Obstruction. The whole thing is ridiculous. Paul manafort Michael Cohen rick gates. All the president s men are guilty everybody gets a vote this is the fight of our lives. Were going to wash
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