Transcripts For MSNBCW Hardball With Chris Matthews 20180702

Replacements. Ill be meeting with two or three more, and well make a decision on the United States Supreme Court, the new justice. Thatll be made over the next few days. And well be announcing it on monday. And i look forward to that. I think the person that is chosen will be outstanding. Talking to fox news over the weekend, trump expressed confidence that he can install his pick before the midterm elections. I think we will go very quickly. I actually believe that. A lot of people think its going to be a very its probably going to be vicious because the other side all they can do is obstruct and resist. You know their whole thing is resist. But its not just the other side the president may have to worry about. This weekend a key moderate senator, maine republican Susan Collins, said she would not support a candidate who expressed what she sees as hostility to roe versus wade. A candidate for this important position who would overturn roe v. Wade would not be acceptable to me because that would indicate an activist agenda that i dont want to see a judge have. President trump will announce his pick a week from today on july 9th. Nbc news has learned that trump is said to be leaning toward a nominee who went to harvard or yale according to individuals familiar with his thinking. So far at least five names, all of them federal Appeals Court judges, have emerged from the president s short list. For more im joined by robert costa, National Political reporter for the washington post. Zurlina maxwell, director of progressive programming for sirius xm. And susan del perezio, a republican strategist. All are nbc political analysts. Robert, let me start with you. We got reporting the president wants harvard or yale perhaps. But theres a number of names that are out there. What is your sense of this . Is this a pick where the white house kind of knows where it wants to go . How much of this is potential for a surprise here . Theres still potential for surprise. The process is fluid. Talking to white house officials and Senior Republicans all day, its evidence that at this point, end of day monday, that judge kavanaugh and judge kony barrett are widely seen in the president s circle as probably the top two candidates. But judge keflidge and judge steppar and several others are still in the mix. The president wants to meet them, see if they have a rapport and also see the publics response to these reported meetings. You mentioned brett kavanaugh, amy kony barrett. Those are the two robert costa suggesting may be getting most conversation. Susan, let me ask you. If this were going to go down a republican would have to vote against this. Susan collins has stepped forward and suggested she could be that republican and the issue in that case would be roe versus wade. If somebody suggests hostility she could be a no vote. Im looking at i senator thats voted for sam alito. She voted for john roberts. And she voted for neil gorsuch. So if thats the standard of who shes willing to find acceptable, are any of these names were talking about now going to plausibly be unacceptable to her . Probably not. Because if its party line votes she doesnt want her legacy to be that of something she cares about the woman who led to the overturn of roe v. Wade. That being said, however, i dont think its going to fall strictly on party lines. Think well see a couple of democrats probably go over like joe manchin or odonnell or donnelley. Excuse me. Sorry about that. And maybe even jones from alabama. Sure. Those are the democrats from the democratic standpoint that will end up giving her cov cover. Just to follow up on what robert said i think its completely opossible to see a wild card that we never saw coming. Trump has really been out there kind of running his own shop lately and the idea he would look for someone who would be a loyalist to him knowing that muellers coming down the pike i think is very much in the realm of possibility. Zurlina, from the standpoint of democrats looking to stop this thing and looking to find a republican vote there, how much hope do you think they can or should take from what Susan Collins is saying . I dont think weve got to pin our hopes on hope. Just for lack of a better expression. Because i think in this particular moment with so many things on the line, voting rights, womens rights, workers rights, affirmative action, you have to fight even if you know you ultimately will lose. Its not just about getting that one republican. Its about calling those democrats. Theyre in moderate states like doug jones and joe manchin. And also make sure to call Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski and ensure they are going to vote against this particular person or at least delay it until after the midterm elections going based on the Mitch Mcconnell rule. And not just because Mitch Mcconnell set this precedent but also because there are two additional arguments that i think are pretty persuasive. One, you are replacing kennedy, who is the swing vote. Its not Antonin Scalia like previously when you had Merrick Garland sitting there and Mitch Mcconnell not even having a hearing. Youre not replacing a conservative with a conservative. Youre replacing a swing vote who is conservative with potentially a very extreme or conservative person. His list is all people who we have an understanding or an opposition to row. Amy barnett went to notre dame. She is very catholic. She had a famous moment with former senator al franken during her hearings about how she spoke essentially to a hate Group Without really understanding the full context there. But additionally as robert said the president is under investigation. So this particular judge that he is nominating to have a hearing in the senate is someone thats going to determine his fate in the legal context. And so i think democrats are not just fighting about all the different rights. Workers rights, gay rights, womens rights, they also need focus on the fact this is replacing the swing vote and the president is under investigation and this person is going to determine his fate. Well, in terms of the emerging democratic opposition or the strategy at least, in an oped in todays New York Times chuck schumer, the minority leader in the senate, made the democratic case against a potential trump nominee. If you do not want a Supreme Court justice who will overturn roe versus wade and undot Affordable Care act, tell your senators they should not vote for a candidate from mr. Trumps preordained list. Meanwhile, on sunday senator Maria Cantwell of Washington State warned her colleagues about the stakes of the Supreme Court vote. I think that my colleagues on both sides of the aisle know that this vote could be one of the key votes of their entire career, and they know that no matter what spin comes out of the white house if they vote for somebody whos going to change precedent it could be a careerending move. Susan, im trying to figure out how the Democratic Base weve heard in the clips there, we heard zerlina go through the issues that most animate the Democratic Base now, and i think its logical to assume are going to lead the vast majority of Senate Democrats to vote against this. But then youve got that group of democrats, and you were mentioning them before. Joe manchin in west virginia. Donnalley in indiana. Heitkamp in north dakota. The incentives, the political incentives for them might work differently. Well, thats true. And they may also realize its an interesting problem for those democrats. Because yes, they want to keep their jobs. But theyre also supposed to represent their constituency. Many of the ones you just mentioned are red states that donald trump won. So that will be thats also something to take into consideration and any chance the democrats have of taking the senate relies on those three getting reelected. So it depends really how the democrats kind of treat each other. Theyre going to have to duke this out. Robert costa, what is your sense of in terms of what the white house is ultimately looking here, the consideration driving this . Ive seen suggestions, you know, that trump thinks of the evangelical christian base that stuck with him in 2016, thinks of this as an issue of particular importance to them, wants to deliver to them. Weve talked about the possibility of some kind of wild card. Where is his mind . Is it on how easy it would be to confirm the person and make sure you get Susan Collins in line for this . Where do you think the priority falls there . Youre looking at someone with an extensive judicial record because they want to make sure that this nominee could be confirmed before the midterm elections. Important news today to Pay Attention to, the white house announced its going to set up a war room. Don mcgahn, the white house counsel. Raj shah, a spokesman. Theyre starting to already assemble the coming political war over this confirmation. And you have don mcgahn reaching out to people like senator mike lee on capitol hill whos another possible wild card pick. But really when you look at kavanaugh, coney barrett, those federal judges are the kind of people the white house believes could both excite the base because of their judicial positions but also be able to sail through relatively easy. But as i was reporting today, steve, senator rand paul of kentucky has expressed concerns to his associates privately and his advisers that kavanaugh may not win his support. He hasnt taken a public position. But because of kavanaughs writings on the Affordable Care act, these kinds of issues are already coming up beyond just the issue with senator collins. Senator Mitch Mcconnell, meanwhile, the republican leader in the senate, he is calling for a vote on trumps yet unnamed pick by this fall. Last week politico reported the senates number 2 republican, john cornyn, was calling for a vote after labor day. The article noted that the Supreme Court nominees since the Ford Administration spent an average of 67 days between their nomination and final confirmation. And i think it was somewhere in the 60s for gorsuch last year. Republicans ended up killing off the filibuster to get him through. But zerlino, in terms of an outcome, if republicans have the votes on paper and theyve got the democrats in those trump state seats who voted for gorsuch, we already saw three of them vote for gorsuch last year, is the best case in your mind for democrats here if theyre not going to get republicans to flip over, is the best case that it fires up their base enough to help them in november to somehow flip the senate after that . Yes, absolutely. And i think that thats the calculation. I think you fight even if you dont win. And the base is with you. What we saw eefr the weekend its not getting as much attention as i thought it would but there were massive protests over the weekend. The base keeps coming out into the streets, and theyre going to continue to do that. I think its a good predictor in terms of them going out and voting. If youre willing to whatever is going on in your life, your kids, your job, but youre taking the time on a saturday, a sunday to go outside and express your opposition to this administration, then youre very likely to also go outside and vote in november. Just one thing to add is millennials have never seen this as an issue in their lifetime, especially roe v. Wade. We dont know what theyre going to do. We know theyre definitely going to have a horrible view of the Republican Party. So if theres a way of tapping into that. And actually, if they are as motivated as we think they are, that could prove what about the conservative base that we talk so much about the Enthusiasm Gap or weve seen democrats coming out in these elections, weve seen democrats protesting, we know the administration was actually hoping democrats would Start Talking about impeachment, why, to get that conservative base mobilized. If youve got a court fight here, could it have that same mobilizing effect . Heres the problem when you look at that argument. The Republican Base turns out. They know what the numbers are. Republicans have been focused on this is the number i need to win. On the democratic side, and we saw this in new york in the primaries, more than one seat, when you dont know whos showing up to vote, it doesnt poll the same and you can get a much wider diverse turnout than you can ever expect. Weve seen it in 2017. Weve seen numbers 30 , 40 in districts. Counting exec. Races here in new york. Increase on the democratic side. So thats whats the unpredictable part. The republican side is very predictable. Theyre not going to appeal to anybody else. All right. Thank you, robert costa, zerlina maxwell, susan del percio. Coming up, the president s longterm fixer Michael Cohen speaks out saying family and country come first, not trump. Cohen used to say he would take a bullet for the president. Not necessarily looking that way anymore. Plus just two weeks ago President Trump was bragging that we could all sleep well at night because the north korea situation no longer posed a Nuclear Threat. Bay stunning new report shows that kim jong un may be defying trump and ramping up his countrys nuclear program. And trump tries to rewrite history when it comes to immigration reform. The hardball round table is going to weigh in on that. Plus National Security adviser john boltons attempt at explaining the president s foreign policy. A very interesting piece of tape. And finally, the round table is going otell us three things we might not know. This is hardball, where the action is. The chili pepper sweatout. Not cool. Freezing away fat cells with coolsculpting . Now thats cool coolsculpting safely freezes and removes fat cells with little or no downtime. And no surgery. Results and Patient Experience may vary. Some common side effects include temporary numbness, discomfort,and swelling. Ask your doctor if coolsculpting is right for you and visit coolsculpting. Com today for your chance to win a free treatment. burke so we know how to seen cover almost anything. Even a cactus calamity. man 1 i read that the saguaro can live to be two hundred years old. woman how old do you think that one is . man 1 my guess would be, about. man 2 id say about two hundred. man 1 yeah. burke gives houseplant a whole new meaning. And we covered it. Talk to farmers. We know a thing or two because weve seen a thing or two. We are farmers. Bumpadum, bumbumbumbum this wifi is fast. I know i know i know i know when did brian move back in . Brians back . He doesnt get my room. Hes only going to be here for like a week. Like a month, tops. Oh boy. Wifi fast enough for the whole family is simple, easy, awesome. In many cultures, young men would stay with their families until their 40s. Welcome back to hardball. Donald trumps longtime personal lawyer and selfdescribed fixer is sounding less inclined to fix things these days. Michael cohen, who famously told a reporter he would take a bullet for trump, told Abcs George Stephanopoulos this weekend, my wife, my daughter, and my son have my first loyalty and always will. I put family and country first. This is quite an aboutface for a man who has spent years defending President Trump. According to vanity fair, cohen has been feeling frustrated. He reportedly told a friend, nobody is watching my back. Cohen was asked by abc how he would respond to an attack by the president or his legal team. He told stephanopoulos, i will not be a punching bag as part of anyones defense strategy. I am not a villain of this toir and i will not allow others to try to depict me that way. Cohen has not been charged with any crime, but he is under criminal investigation related to the 130,000 hush money payment to adult film star stormy daniels. For more im joined by ken vogel, political reporter for the New York Times, and caroline polici, a federal and whitecollar criminal defense attorney. Ken, let me start with you. When youre in the legal situation Michael Cohen is in, you dont just randomly give sitdown interviews to National Television networks. There had to be a purpose here. What do we think that was . Well, there are a couple possibilities. Number one is he is signaling his willingness to strike a deal with prosecutors. Possibly to cooperate, to give them something on trump. This would be an unusual way to do that. Typically those types of deals are reached in private and prosecutors dont like you going out and talking a lot when youre either cooperating with them or you are in the process of reaching a deal under which you would cooperate with them. That leads us to the second possibility that he might be sending a signal to none other than his former boss donald trump suggesting either that as we said, more than suggesting that he would not sort of sit idly by if the trump folks tried to roll on him and throw him under the bus either in the media or through legal proceedings. Or the possibility that he may be signaling that he wants donald trump to pay more, foot for of the bill, the burden for his legal bills. We know from our reporting that he is unhappy with the president s lack of effort on that front. The campaign did pay for some of his legal bills but that was only in the russia investigation. This of course is a separate investigation by the Southern District of new york. And then possibly the furthest reaches of this might be sending a signal to the president , hey, if i do get indicted and convicted i might be interested in a pardon from you. We have a criminal defense attorney here. Caroline, youre the perfect one to ask this. If you had a client who has been through what Michael Cohen has been through, under what circumstances or for what purpose would you say good idea to do this interview . In no circumstances would i say its a good idea to do this interview, which is why i think the pardon theory has gained more steam on the twittersphere as of late. Because the question is why, if you really were interested in the cooperation agreement, kens right, that would be something that his lawyer would pick up the phone and call the Southern District prosecutors. I tend to think that the pardon theory gives Michael Cohen a little bit too much credit. I dont think hes overthinking this. The distinction between the courtroom and the media has been blurred from day one in this case. I dont think Michael Cohen knows where the distinction is at this point. Look, this is a 180. As you said, he said he was willing to take a bullet for President Trump. But its one thing to say youll take a bullet. Its another thing when the gun is locked and loaded. And here the ammunition is clearly the threat of a criminal indictment from the Southern District. Attorneys were finishing up in the sdny case, in the privilege review of those materials. Thats coming to a close. Theres a deadline looming this thursday, which means this case is moving apace. And if theres a time at which Michael Cohen wants to be thinking about his strategy at this point now is the time. Now is the time he needs to be entering into proffer agreements with multiple potentially jurisdictions, with special counsel Robert Muellers office, with Southern District prosecutors. So i think its more of an indication that he wants a deal as opposed to a pardon. And along those lines Michael Cohen recently retained attorney guy petrillo would to replace his current lawyer. Petrillo is a federal prosecutor with significant experience in the Southern District of new york. Thats the office thats investigate Michael Cohen. Abc news is also reporting that petrillo once petrillo takes over a joint Defense Agreement cohen shared with the president which allowed their lawyers to share information in documents with each other will come to an end. What does that mean . This is a huge deal. The reason you enter into a joint Defense Agreement with a codefendant usually is because you want to share attorneyclient privileged material because youre presenting a combined defense. Your interests are aligned. Once your interests are no longer aligned and you have antagonistic defenses as we call, it which is just legal jargon for you want to throw the other guy under the bus, thats when you break a joint Defense Agreement. Heretofore the defense has been nothing to see here, we did nothing wrong. Now it looks like the defense is going to be that guy did it. And thats exactly when you stop abiding by the terms of this agreement. I think thats more of an indicator hes going to cooperate as opposed to this interview. Also of note here, this interview with abc cohen made a point to distance himself from the president. Told george stephanopoulos, i dont agree with those who demonize or vilify the fbi. I respect the fbi as an institution as well as their agents. He also said, as an american i repudiate russias or any other foreign governments attempt to interfere or med until our democratic process and i would call on all americans to do the same. Simply accepting the denial of mr. Putin is unsustainable. Cohen also said he doesnt like the term witch hunt. Last week President Trump, who likes to call the Mueller Investigation a witch hunt, tweeted russia continues to say they had nothing to do with meddling in our election. So ken, on multiple fronts here, clearly creating some distance, Michael Cohen is, between himself and the president. Do we have any sense how donald trump is interpreting this, how he sees, this how hes reacting to this . Well, it cant be well, steve. And lets not forget this comes after Michael Cohen stepped down from his post at the Republican National committee. I believe it was last month. Because he said he disagreed with the administrations policy on separating children from their parents, Migrant Children from their parents at the border. Now, it sort of begs the question, why was he still in this leadership post at the Republican National committee when he was under criminal investigation . Nonetheless, its part of a pattern of him distancing himself from the president. It may just be part of this signaling were talking about where hes saying hey, boss, or former boss, you cant necessarily take for granted that im on your team, you need to show me a little something, a little more of that loyalty that ive shown you for so long. In reciprocity. Thus far we havent seen that, but we also havent seen the patented trump sort of distancing stiffarming, you know, stiffarming former allies who played an integral role as he has done repeatedly with other folks who have come under fire or have come under scrutiny or even indictment in the Mueller Investigation such as paul manafort, who the white house famously said had played a limited role for a limited period of time. That sort of defied credulity. This is a guy whos integral to the campaign. It would really defy credulity if they tried to dot same thing with Michael Cohen, who played an integral role not just in the campaign but in President Trumps Business Affairs for more than a decade before the campaign. And caroline, how would mueller, how would the special prosecutor watching all of this, seeing this interview, seeing it, how would he read this . How would he react to this . Remember, its very important to remember that this was actually a referral by the special counsels office to the Southern District of new york, which the indication there is that mueller didnt see this as part of his ambit to begin with. Likely its my opinion, we dont know this for sure, but its that 130,000 hush money payment which raised eyebrows about Campaign Finance violations, potentially that raised eyebrows here. Mueller said look, this really doesnt fall within my mandate to prosecute potential russian meddling. But now we know hes gotten a little bit farther down the line in his investigation and now were hearing reports that, well, Michael Cohen actually was involved in some of this russia stuff. You know, he dangled the possibility of President Trumps knowledge about that fateful trump tower meeting in summer of 2016 saying that he wasnt going to answer that on advice of counsel. It sounds like he knows a lot about potentially russia collusion. I think bob muellers going to be less nice. Caroline polisi, ken vogel, thanks to both of you. Up next trump says theres no longer a Nuclear Threat from north korea thanks to his selfproclaimed Great Success with kim jong un. This of course flies in the face of new evidence that north korea may be trying to ramp up its Nuclear Capability and not surrender it. This is hardball, where the action is. vo this is not a video game. This is not a screensaver. 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Check your blood sugar. Low blood sugar can be serious and may be lifethreatening. Injection site reactions may occur. Tell your prescriber about all medicines you take and all your medical conditions. Taking tzds with insulins, like tresiba®, may cause serious side effects like heart failure. Your insulin dose shouldnt be changed without asking your prescriber. Get medical help right away if you have trouble breathing, fast heartbeat, extreme drowsiness, swelling of your face, tongue or throat, dizziness, or confusion. Ask your Health Care Provider if youre tresiba® ready. Covered by most insurance and medicare plans. Tresiba® ready welcome back to hardball. Secretary of state mike pompeo is heading to pyongyang this week to resume negotiations. But new reports suggest north korea may be trying to deceive the u. S. About its nuclear efforts. According to nbc, u. S. Intelligence agencies believe the north Korean Leader kim jong un may be trying to hide multiple Nuclear Facilities and has stepped up production of fuel for Nuclear Weapons at multiple secret sites. One u. S. Official said, there is no evidence that they are decreasing stockpiles or that they have stopped their production and there is absolutely unequivocal evidence that they are trying to deceive the u. S. Meanwhile, according to the wall street journal, north korea has moved forward with a major expansion of a key missile manufacturing plant. Reports come just three weeks after President Trump returned from his singapore summit with kim jong un and boasted, there is no longer a Nuclear Threat from north korea and we can all sleep well tonight. As recently as this weekend the president was showing the utmost confidence in the north Korean Leader. Lets watch. I got along really well with chairman kim. We had a great chemistry. We really had. But do we believe him, mr. President . I made a deal with him. I shook hands with him. I really believe he means it. Joining me now, nbc news intelligence and National Security reporter ken delaney. Ken, what is the scope of what youre learning north korea is doing here . Well, steve, these latest u. S. Intelligence assessments tell the American Government that north korea is secretly enriching uranium and other nuclear fuel at multiple secret undeclared sites. One of which the u. S. May have only found out about recently. And even more importantly than that, steve, is that the u. S. Intelligence community has picked up evidence that the north intends to deceive the Trump Administration and the United States about this. In other words, its not prepared to come clean about its nuclear program. And not only the enrichment, about the number of missiles, number of warheads and other key factors it would have to declare as part of any denuclearization effort. This kind of cat and mouse game is not uncommon in nuclear negotiations. We saw it with the iran deal. The u. S. Intelligence community tries to catch the adversary country. The adversary country tries to hide stuff. Whats interesting here is donald trump does not appear to acknowledge any of this. And even today when White House Press secretary Sarah Sanders was asked about our reporting and other reporting she just basically blew it off and said look, theres possible momentum for change and were moving forward. John bolton yesterday on television, the National Security adviser, said yes, we understand north korea plays cat and mouse games but he suggested that they were on track to denuclearize within a year, which no expert thinks is possible. So its really hard to understand what the Trump Administrations strategy is here, steve. In terms of where this stands, too when they left that, when trump and kim jong un left that summit in singapore, there was no formal agreement with specific terms. This would be a violation of goodwill for a future more comprehensive agreement, is that right . Thats absolutely right. And thats the confusing thing about this because donald trump essentially told the American Public that there was a deal. But there is no deal. North korea has not agreed to denuclearize. Theyve agreed to less than theyve agreed to in the past. They essentially agreed to get on a path toward denuclearization without defining what that term means. And so its absolutely true that none of this that the u. S. Has found they are doing vielths any deal. But analysts have looked at it and said this does not look like a country that is even moving in the direction of denuclearizing. They are still working on their nuclear program, their missile program. Theyre still expanding facilities both in open source reporting and in u. S. Intelligence reporting, steve. As ken alluded to a minute ago, despite these reports of deception by north korea there are those in the white house who are remaining publicly optimistic about the negotiations. According to axios, some white house officials hope a round two with President Trump can be held in new york in september when World Leaders pour into trumps home town for the u. N. General assembly. And before that, ken, secretary of state mike pompeo is supposed to sit down with north korean officials much more much closer to right now. What is the sense, though, in terms of how forthcoming north koreas going to be in that sitdown with pompeo . Well, that is exactly what u. S. Officials for, steve. They know things. They would rather this hadnt leaked out. But there are still some things that they know that the north koreans dont know they know. And so theyre going to look at this if mike pompeo gets a declaration from the north korea about heres our nuclear program, here are the facilities, heres how many weapons we have, they will look to see whether that matches what they understand about the program. That will be the first indication of good faith. And look, this is a negotiation and its a much better situation than threatening war, but at the same time analysts are concerned that donald trump is being duped, is being played and at some point hes going to realize that and then become angered, walk away and then were in a worse situation than when we began these talks, steve. All right. Ken dilanian, thank you for that. And up next, protests around the country this weekend. Some called to abolish the immigration and Customs Enforcement agency. Trumps response that without i. C. E. , people will be afraid to walk out of their house. The hardball round table digds into the debate over immigration and more after the break. 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And i am a senior Public Safety my namspecialist for pg e. My job is to help educate our First Responders on how to deal with natural gas and electric emergencies. Everyday when we go to work we want everyone to work safely and come home safely. I live right here in auburn, i absolutely love this community. Once i moved here i didnt want to live anywhere else. I love that people in this community are willing to come together to make a difference for other peoples lives. Together, were building a better california. Welcome back to hardball. After multiple attempts by House Republicans to pass an immigration bill, with the latest failing by a whopping 121301 margin, President Trump this weekend claimed that he never pushed the republicans in the house to vote for the immigration bill. That is probably clearly revisionist history on trumps part. Just three days earlier on the day of the immigration vote he tweeted, House Republicans should pass the strong but fair immigration bill. Politicos rachel bay points out that trump may enjoy campaigning on immigration but its far from what Republican Leaders want to highlight as they battle to keep their majorities this fall. Gop lawmakers have repeatedly shown an inability to unite behind any sort of immigration plan, and trump has failed to lead on the matter as well, creating a constant whiplash as he changes his position from day to day. Lets bring in tonights hardball round table. Beth fu is a Senior Editor for nbc news. Laura bass is a sirn politicalor reporter for the Huffington Post and emily bay is a political reporter for news day. The president has been all over the map. He was saying republicans shouldnt do thinking anything, then he was saying they shouldnt pass this bill then he said he wasnt advocating for any bill. Heading into the midterms a Republican Party that had the white house and the congress for the last two years that has not passed anything on immigration, is there a political price for that in the midterm . I see two things going on here. Specifically with trump. Number one, the policy of separating kids from their parents was a complete debacle. It failed. He knows it. It was a black eye for the president. Second is he believes there are plenty of people out there who are still very uncomfortable with ilLegal Immigration and hes going to go all in on that topic. Its certainly one of the many things that helped him win in 2016. So hes just made a decision, lets go with fear. He really likes to set people up as an enemy or an adversary. In this case its immigrants who are causing crime even though theres no evidence they cause crime. In fact, they cause less crime than native born americans. That they bring drugs, they threaten neighborhoods. All of those things he reinforces beliefs that perhaps other people have and strengthens the view of the people already right there around him. Hes not reaching out to anybody else but lets face it hes always been the president of his base. Hes not the president of the broader community. And it is, laura, striking that the Republican Party two years into the trump era you look at what was happening in the house there last week, you cannot find, you cannot appar t apparently craft a piece of legislation that youre going to get 218 republicans to say yes, this is what im for. I think thats true. And i think the reason is because this debate is not actually about enforcing the border. Its not actually about ilLegal Immigration. I think what its about is for republicans this sort of white anxiety about changing demographics in this country. I think its actually more about Legal Immigration than ilLegal Immigration. I think one of the reasons if you look at what obama he was extremely tough on immigration at the border. And the democrats still lost to the republicans. And so i think republicans, there is no actual legislative fix that can accomplish what theyre trying to accomplish, which is to stop the flow of foreign nationals into this country. They cant do it. It seems you do have this sort of divide in the Republican Party. You look at the front line, the most vulnerable republicans this november are in districts Hillary Clinton won in 2016. You have voters who didnt like trump necessarily, didnt like his message, didnt like his tone on immigration, and republicans trying to hold on to their seats, unwilling to play ball with steve king and that side on immigration. The debate when it comes to elections over immigration reminds me much of the debate over trump, people are scrambling to be on the right side of the message, scrambling to be on the right side of the issue, on the right side of history. Its all over the map. And theyre trying to avoid answering the questions, the hard questions, including whether they support abolishing i. C. E. Until they really have to because they dont know what the chips are growing to fall. Speaking of that issue, this w50ekd hundreds of marches took place across the country calling on the Trump Administration to reunite families separated at the border. It comes also as that movement to abolish i. C. E. Has suddenly built. Just over the past week or so. With Many Democrats including possible president ial candidates voicing support for that initiative. No one seems happier about the democratic messaging than President Trump. Lets watch. You get rid of i. C. E. , youre going to have a country that youre going to be afraid to walk out of your house. I love that issue if theyre going to actually do that. Theyre seriously talking about that . I do wonder about this, laura. We looked at the polling on family separation, and just poisonously unpopular. 31 even among republicans you werent seeing a groundswell of support there. But when you start polling broader attitudes about immigration, illegal border crossings and what do you do you see folks, and this cuts across party lines, you see folks siding with the idea of hey, if you detain folks, you detain Families Together and you send them back together, you dont bring people in, wait for correlate dates, that sort of thing, you see folks, their instinct on this seems to be to take Border Security, to take the idea of having i. C. E. Pretty seriously. Is there a risk there for democrats, that hey, the politics of family separation were overwhelmingly favorable to them but the broader politics of immigration were dicier . I do think it is a Political Risk for democrats. Actually, at huff post we did some polling today that showed that a lot of people in the country dont really havent heard of this abolish ice hashtag campaign, they dont know what it means, and a majority of people arent actually in favor of it. And i think a lot of the reason for that is because when you have with hashtag politics in general you cant really get into the nuanced conversation about what it really means to abolish i. C. E. People think it just means chaos on the border, and trump is seizing on that and saying they want open borders, she want ms13 to just flood into this country when in fact the democrats need to talk about an actual solution, either a way to repair i. C. E. Or to talk about whats going to happen when i. C. E. Is gone, what are we going to replace it with . I. C. E. Is relatively young. Before 9 11 we didnt have it around. It is possible to enforce the Border Security without it. But i think the democrats have not done a great job of explaining what they mean. The flip side of it i guess, beth, would be you could make the argument democrats are walking into a political trap on this if they were to sort of accelerate their rhetoric and accelerate the move to that position, maybe that would be the case we would see. But the flip side would be was the coverage, were the emotions around, were the pictures around this issue of family separation so uniquely strong that if youre assessing political fallout thats where it is . Thats where it is. I very much ago with you that theres a huge risk for democrats to take it into being the abolishment of i. C. E. Most havent heardar i. C. E. Of i. C. E. , they dont know what it is. It allows trump and the republicans to define it. Those are the people that are keeping you safe and democrats want to get rid of those folks. So it sets up a trap. And number two, why not keep the focus on family separation . Saying instead of abolish i. C. E. , abolish putting babies in cages. Abolish baby jails. Theres much stronger messages the democrats could go on, which has widespread approval as you pointed out from all of this polling. Theyre on the right side of that issue in this case. They go down the rabbit hole of abolishing i. C. E. I dont see where that goes. Emily, it is interesting. This is an issue that was getting basically zero traction among major sort of mainstream figures in the democratic party. And then suddenly in the last week youve had potential president ial candidates endorsing this move. Is this something where by the end of the summer were going to see a bunch of democrats out there behind it or does it lose steam . It does feel like its losing steam. There are a number of Senate Democrats who havent exactly signed on to that call. Im sthig of richard blumenthal, tammy duckworth. Not Everyone Wants to be part of that message. And even those who are calling for the abolishment of i. C. E. Are trying to add that nuance. Its difficult after a hashtag where theyre trying to say we dont want to get rid of u. S. Poureder patrol, we want to replace it with something more humane, were not trying to leave a void. Its difficult its a difficult message to project properly. Round table is staying with us. Up next, in the wake of that red hen controversy, President Trump has a warning for democrats. Well get to that next. Youre watching hardball. Hes got legs of lumber and arms of steel he eats a bowl of hammers at every meal he holds your house in the palm of his hand hes your home and auto man big jim, hes got you covered great big jim, there aint no other so, this is covered, right . Yes, maam. Take care of it for you right now. Giddyup hi this is jamie. We need some help. But prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered. In jellyfish. In clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve shortterm memory. Prevagen. The name to remember. Your hair is so soft did you use head and shoulders two in one . I did mom. Wanna try it . Yes. It intensely moisturizes your hair and scalp and keeps you flake free. Manolo . Look at my soft hair. I should be in the shot now too. Try head and shoulders two in one. My response was were going to have to agree to disagree. But thats not up for negotiation . Thats not the position of the United States. Right. But saying well see suggests it might be. Well, well see. Well be right back. Welcome back to hardball. In an interview with fox news President Trump warned his critics to, quote, take it easy. Asked about celebrities like Robert De Niro who publicly attacked trump and the owner of that virginia restaurant who kicked out press secretary Sarah Huckabee sanders, trump had this to say. I hope the other side realizes that they better just take it easy. They better just take it easy. Because some of the language used, some of the words, even some of the radical ideas i really think theyre very bad for the country. I think theyre actually very dangerous for the country. Were back with our hardball round table. Beth, laura, emily. Emily, based on Donald Trumps political style, i kind of think he doesnt want his opponents to take it easy. It could be perceived as a veiled threat. But everything that representative could also be perceived as a veiled threat and i think theres ramped up rhetoric all around. It doesnt help the general National Discourse but it certainly helps say the president and the congresswoman with their bases because it fires up their supporters. What do you make of it, laura . Fully think its really rich for trump to encourage civility on either side. He has a history of encouraging violence at his own rallies, and hes been the least civil president weve ever had. On twitter and in speeches and elsewhere. Hes called women horrible things, talked about peoples bleeding faces. I mean, i dont think that this is a veiled threat from trump. I think its a threat from trump. And i think the fact that he kind of cozies up to these authoritarian dictators who do suppress anyone their countries who oppose them i think we should be alarmed at trump starting to talk this way. It seems, beth, his political model, and i dont know if he set out with a premeditated view of this or it just sort of evolved this way but it relies on tension. It relies on tribalism. We look at the polling numbers on this. Theres never been a president whos been elected with more of the people who voted for him having a lower opinion of him. And to get that many people to do that they need to have an even lower opinion of the other side. It just seems like that is the model here. Right. And he also wants to be a tough guy. He actually doesnt go around doing physical violence to people but he certainly threatens it all the time. I just did a little quick search when we were discussing the segment. I found him threatening be careful, maxine waters, john mccain, Bernie Sanders and to ted cruz he said i may spill the beans on your wife. So this is what he does. He likes to threaten. He likes to stand up. He likes to look like the tough guy. His folks really like to see him looking tough. They dont necessarily want to see him physically go after anybody. But he says im not going to take any guff from anybody. Im the guy whos going to be standing up. If theres a fight to be had ill be the one standing at the end. Clearly thats worked for him on some level with a lot of voters. And we know the trump side has certainly encouraged democrats, for instance, to go forward with the impeachment talk. So there certainly does seem to be some political calculation there, hey, can we ratchet up the rhetoric on the other side in the interest of motivating on this side, that whole polarization, tribalism thing weve been talking about for so long . The round tables staying with us. Up next these three are going to tell me something i dont know. Youre watching hardball. Metastatic Breast Cancer is relentless, but im relentless too. Mbc doesnt take a day off, and neither will i. And i treat my mbc with new everyday verzenio the only one of its kind that can be taken every day. In fact, verzenio is a cdk4 6 inhibitor for postmenopausal women with hr , her2 mbc, approved, with hormonal therapy, as an everyday treatment for a relentless disease. 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Common side effects include nausea, infections, low red and white blood cells and platelets, decreased appetite, headache, abdominal pain, tiredness, vomiting, and hair thinning or loss. Im relentless. And my doctor and i choose to treat my mbc with verzenio. Be relentless. Ask your doctor about everyday verzenio. And were back with the hardball round table. Beth, tell me something i dont know. The hottest place to be on july 4th, steve, is going to be the eastport, maine parade. The biggest parade in maine. And thats where Susan Collins is going to be marching and thats where shes going to hear from constituents from across the state who are going to be flocking into maine, into that little town, eastport, to know Susan Collins know what they think you how she should vote on trumps Supreme Court nominee. I think the sunrises in eastport, maine. Most easterly place in the United States. Added inducement to go there. Laura. Theres a 33point gender gap leading into the midterms, which is the biggest gender gap weve ever seen leading into a midterm. Women are favoring democrats by 25 points. Men favoring republicans by eight points. So well see how that shakes out in november. It is a huge swing. And emily. Trying to replicate the success of alexandria ocasio courtez is a woman named julia salazar. Shes a democratic socialist. Similar profiles, similar districts. Sxheez rung against a longterm incumbent. Today she was endorsed by Cynthia Nixon just as Ocasio Cortez was endorsed by singtsia nixon zblup try to figure out what the indreents were in that new york 14th district and where could they be replicated. Theres one up in massachusetts im keeping an eye on. Congressional primary mike capuano is the incumbent. The district has changed a little bit. Hes got a challenger whos endorsed by Ocasio Cortez. Well see if that develops into anything this summer. Beth fouhy, laura basset, emily ngo. Hardball. All in with chris hayes starts right now. Tonight on all in is the president worried after his comments this morning that Michael Cohen is going to flip . Trumps fixer flips his priority. Ill do anything to protect mr. Trump. I put family and country first. Tonight, why Michael Cohen is publicly breaking with the president. And just how worried should donald trump be . The substance of what he told abc if its true should cause the president sleepless nights. Then yea Top Republican fundraiser suddenly ended hush payments to a playboy model. Plus, as the president meets with potential nominees would the president like to see roe v. Wade overturned . Why republicans keep hiding from the abortion question. And in the wake of massive