Greater vezability into the investigation and its details. There will be more than 20 dedicated agents working on the investigation. They will brief comey on a weekly basis. Meanwhile, nbc news has confirmed that bombshell Washington Post report that the United Arab Emirates arranged a secret meeting in january, a week before the inauguration between blackwater founder eric prince and a russian close to president Vladimir Putin as part of an apparent effort to establish a back channel line of communication between moscow and president elect donald trump. The post noted that prince presented himself as an unofficial ann vey for trump. The blackwater founder gave a quarter of a Million Dollars to the trump campaign, and protrump super pacs last year and hes been sitting in the trumps transition offices in december. A spokesperson for prince rejected the story and the white house called the suggestion of a back water charge ridiculous. Meanwhile as the investigation moves forward, trump pushes stories that distract attention from the investigation. Yesterday, for example, bloombergs eli lake reported, white house lawyers last month learned that the former National Security adviser susan rice requested the identities of u. S. Persons in raw intelligence reports on dozens of occasions that connect to the trump tran skpigs and campaign according to u. S. Officials fanl with the matter. Today, President Trump retweeted a drudge report headline abouthat story. In an exclusive interview wh andrea mitchell, susan rice explained there is a big difference between requesting information about sources in intelligence reports and surveilling political opponents as President Trump has alleged. Lets watch her. The allegation that somehow Obama Administration officials utilized intelligence for political purposes. Thats absolutely false. There were occasions when i would receive a report in which a u. S. Person was referred to. Name not provided. Just u. S. Person. And sometimes in that context, in order to understand the importance of the report and assess its significance, it was necessary to find out or request the information as to who that u. S. Official was. Well, congressman adam schiff, the Ranking Member of the House Intelligence Committee said the white house is trying to change the focus and divert the investigation into his campaigns ties to russia. Lets watch this. If anyone in the white house had a concern about any of these materials, they should have been shared and not gone through this charade that we saw over the last two weeks. What prompted that . What was the urgency there when weve already asked for materials about incidental collection . And i have to think the urgency was created at that monday hearing when james comey said not only there was no truth to the president s claim that he was surveilled or wiretapped or what have you, but also when the fbi director said that the trump campaigneam was under an fbi investigation. I think this was the response to th rather breathtaking hearing. Congressman denny heck is a member of the House Intelligence Committee. Simon marks, and david cornish, Washington Bureau chief. Congressman, let me ask you about this. What do you make of this investigation and the fact that comey, the fbi director, is really kind of focusing attention, creating a special section to go into what happened between russia and the trump people . So one former fbi agent indicated that this represents a surge in resources. Anybody associated with the trump orbit that was involved in russia final entanglements probably was calling their lawyer today, chris. Thats what i make of it. Let me ask you about this other later bombshell story, that there was a meeting nine days before inauguration between the blackwater founder, the brother of the person betsy devos, of course who was named by trump to be secretary of education, her brother. The guy over in the seychelles with the putin guy. What is a huge backer of a president ial candidate who has already become a president elect doing fishing out there, putting together relations with russia . I dont know whether its illegal, but it certainly suggests more entanglement between the trump folks and the putin folks. Chris, theres so much smoke here. Every smoke alarm in the house is going off. Theres so much smoke here you cant see a foot in front of your face. Listen, this thing is taking on a life of its own. Its gathering speed. Its the senate. Its the fbi with new resources and by the way i have it by word tonight that the house is going to get its investigation back on track. The chair and the Ranking Member, i believe, are near agreement on a witness list so we can enter the auction. And as i have said all along, i wouldnt be the slightest bit surprised if there arent also some local prosecutors looking into some things like this. Is the chairman of your committee his own man . Well, chris, i am going to give him the benefit of the doubt of an opportunity to get this back on track. Okay. Let me put it this way. I asked him to recuse himself. I think that was the right thing to do. But right now lets focus on getting it back on track. The reason i asked that is obvious. But i also know from a former member of the house who is now in the senate once told me that when you go into markup and you actually have to write bills, you can sometimes realize that one of your colleagues is in the tank with some corporation. They begin to behave like theyre not really their own person. Weve seen pretty adequate evidence that mr. Nunes is not his own person. Whats he doing hanging around picking up the laundry from the white house and taking it back to the white house after hes cleaned it by saying hes an investigator . He wasnt an investigator. He was a delivery boy, bringing this stuff back that they gave him and saying it was news, alarming news. If that isnt show boating for the president , i dont know what is. What do you think it was . I think the best thing that can be said about it is that its ham handed. Ive said all along i feel like im watching a 3d movie, deception, deflection, and distraction. Thats what hes trying to do. But its not going to work. One of your colleagues on the committee, another democrat on the tension Committee Said on cnn just day he thinks some of President Trumps associates could end up in prison or in jail, he said. Lets watch. I guess i would say this, that my impression i wouldnt be surprised after all of this is said and done that some people end up in jail. Really . And how high does that go in your suspicion . Thats all we could call it right now. Well, thats yet to be determined. Youre confident that at least some Trump Associates will wind up in jail . If i was betting, i would say yes. Including some who are working in the new administration or people who worked or advised the president during the campaign and maybe during the transition . As you can imagine, wolf, ill have to comment on that later. But, again, if somebody asked me my impression, i would my impression is that people will probably be charged, and i think people will probably go to jail. Congressman, last question. What do you make of Michael Flynn, the general who was head of National Security, asking for immunity . Immunity means immunity from prison basically. He must think somethings coming his way. I can only quote general flynn, who said nobody asks for immunity that hasnt committed a crime. I want to respectfully disagree with my dear friend joaquin castro, next to whom i sit on the intelligence committee. He said he would not be surprised if people ended up going to jail. I will be surprised if people dont end up going to jail. Okay. Thank you very much, congressman denny heck of washington state, right . Yes, sir. Thank you so much. Lets go back to these other folks. Simon first and then david. This thing is getting coherent. Comey is taking it seriously by outward effect. What do you make of it all . People are talking about immunity. Were getting more information about the seychellesseychelles. You dont mean the seychelles if you want the people to know about it. Look, im old enough to remember when sean isiser was standing behind that lectern assuring everybody theres nothing to see here, time to stop digging. Now youve got the fbi surging resources, according to the financial times. That is a very, very clear indication that they think theres something there to dig into and to get their teeth into. And trump gets more and more for a man that you would think well, i dont think hes totally innocent of any of these relations. Theres no reason to believe he doesnt have russian connections. Every time this gets tighter around his neck, ebb starts getting crazy with the tweets over the weekend. Look at this. He keeps calling this a hoax. Thats his word. Its a hoax. Its a hoax. Fake news, fake news. You have the director of the fbi, that he oversees as president , saying actually this is not a hoax, and this is getting more intense. It shows me comey is not dismissing it. Hes finding more to focus on. You have republicans who lead the intelligence committees, even nunes, saying this is real. You have nikki haley saling this is real. What does itean tha all these nikki hal has said that as well. All these republicans, people in his own cabinet say its real, and he keeps saying its a hoke. I think nikki haley sees herself having a future. Thats why shes keeping herself clean. You notice the opera aspect of this. First he goes after donna br braziel. Passed apparently some questions from a debate to hillary. That shouldnt have been done. Why is he going back after that . Why is he going after hillarys performance in the debate . Why is he going after susan rice . Hes like an old deejay. He pulls out the old records from 20 years ago and plays them again. Well, hes like the magician whos saying dont look over here. Look over here. Hes desperate to get everybody tody swrert their attention today. I do think susan rice lets watch that. As soon as reports about susan rices roll in unmasking the names of Trump Associates emerge the, many republicans pounced. I believe susan rice abused the system, and she did it for political purposes. She needs to be brought in and questioned under oath. She did an interview 12 days ago. Was she forthcoming in that interview, senator . I have no idea. But when it comes to susan rice, you flood to verify, not trust. Susan rice is the typhoid mary of the Obama Administration foreign policy. Every time something went wrong, she seemed to turn up in the middle of it. Okay. Bates motel. Mike huckabee tweeted yesterday, donald trump will await apology from the media now ha he has revealed susan rice unmasked names. Orange jump p suit in issight. I do think notice its always a female . Just a thought. Thats also true. But i do think she slightly played into that hand. Typhoid mar pri . Clearly not. But the best things susan rices job is to watch narc security. As she told andrea today, she made it very clear what she was doing was when she saw an american name show up in a surveillance of a foreign perhaps agent, she went into who that was. Whats wrong with that . I dont think theres necessarily anything wrong with it. I think unfortunately for susan rice, shes given two contradictory interviews, an interview to pbs a couple weeks ago where she said nothing to see here. She said there was no surveillance. She wasnt saying she didnt pick up some names by asking through Proper Authority whos are they talking about. By the way, this is all after the election. This wasnt politics. At the end of the day, we need some element of decency. When rand paul gets out there and says shes abused this right, there is not an iota of evidence that shes abused anything. Calling her typhoid mary, all we know now is that she did her job. Did she do something wrong . There is no information indicating that. So they are making her, you know, basically theyre defaming her without any reason to do so because shes a woman. Maybe because shes a black woman. Maybe because they didnt like her during benghazi. This is all about the a little british commentary from me right now. Remember that scene in man for all seasons where henry the 8th steps ento the muddy water and all the kurt yeas jump into the water with him, led by huckabee. We have some breaking news right now to report. The south Korean Military has confirmed that north korea has just fired a ball isz tick missile into the sea of japan. It comes days before President Trump is set to meet with the chinese president. Lester holt is at the air base in south korea where these are tracked. What can you tell us about this disturbing news . Reporter chris, were getting confirmation now not only from south korean officials but also u. S. Pacific command, this missile was launched on the east coast of north korea. This would be the seventh in the last two months, a Ballistic Missile that traveled about 37 miles before going down in the east sea, also known as the sea of japan. This comes just on the heels of the North Koreans issuing more stipends against the joint u. S. South korea military exercises going on here. We were on some of those exercises yesterday. Theyontinue torain together for eventualities here including a lot of what we saw was dealing with the possibility of weapons of mass destruction. Now, we can tell you that that missile would have been tracked at the air Operations Center at Osan Air Base. Its about a 10, 15minute walk from where we are. It is underground. It is very secure. We had rare access there a couple of days ago. U. S. South korean operators have just moments to react when these things happen. Theyve got to identify the launch point and do the math or the computers do the math very quickly to figure out where its going to come down. In other words, is it an attack, or is it going to be a harmless test as this turned out to be . But it is a time of rising tensions, certainly on this peninsula. Weve spent the last four days with various military units. They continue to train to the standard they always do, and their slogan is ready to fight tonight. In other words, things could flip, they know, on this peninsula at any moment, and their posture is to be ready to go at any moment. Chris . Thank you so much, lester holt at Osan Air Base in south korea. Lester, of course, is an anchor of the nightly news for nbc news. Coming up, should President Trumps former National Security director Michael Flynn get immunity . He says he has a story to tell to pay for that immunity. But would that story net the bigger fish . Well, donald trump perhaps . Thats the question everyone is asking. John deans joins us in just a minute. Plus todays equal pay day, the day that symbolizes how far into a new year women must earn to catch up with men from the previous air. Ivanka trump says we need to close that pay gap, but her dad lled back an obama regulation last month that ensures federal contractors pay women the same as their male counterparts. And the hardball round table is here to talk about how can trump continue to talk to russia. Finally let me finish tonight with the same story with history actually. Past and present tied to the Top College Basketball team in the country, unc. This is hardball, where the action is. President trump is blaming his pretty sesors policies after a suspected chemical attack in syria killed at least 83 people including 25 children. The pictures are horrible. We want to warn viewers that the pictures from that attack are very graphic in nature to put it lightly. Syrian activists say the attack happened in a northern rebel held region and a Field Hospital in the area was also hit. Eyewitnesses say the attack was launched by an air strike from syrian and russian warplanes. Activists say it bears all the hallmarks of assad government. Both damascus and moscow deny responsibility. In a statement today, President Trump condemned the attack, calling it a consequence of the Obama Administrations weakness that was his word on the war in syria back in 2012 when president obama said chemical weapons used in syria would cross a red line. A year later the assad regime used chemical weapons against civilians, and president obama didnt act. At the time trump repeatedly urged obama not to use force. Will he agree with obama not to use force at that time. White house Secretary Sean Spicer says bashir is a political reality, but mccain says trump needs to take a more forceful stand against the syrian president. I want to hear him say wee going arm the free syrian army. Were going to dedicate ourselves to the removal of bashir assad, and we will not sit by and watch chemical weapons being used to slaughter innocent women and children. Thats not the trump view. Well get much more on what trump may do about the war in syria, especially given moscows support for assad later with our round table tonight. Well be rath back. Wanna get away . Now you can with southwest fares as low as 59 dollars oneway. Yes to low fares with nothing to hide. Thats transfarency. What bad back . Gels work so fast youll ask what pulled hammy . Advil liqui gels make pain a distant memory nothing works faster stronger or longer what pain . Advil. E trades powerful trading tools, give you access to indepth analysis, and a team of experienced traders ready to help if you need it. Its like having the power of a trading floor, wherever you are. Its your trade. E trade you only give immunity if youre going to get the big fish, and the big fish here is the president of the United States. Welcome back to hardball. The big question about Michael Flynn and his request for immunity is whether his testimony can bring down the president of course. In his Statement Last week, flynns attorney suggested his client might possess information that could be useful to investigators, saying general flynn certainly has a story to tell, and he very much wants to tell it should the circumstances permit. Thats how he put it. Well, does the story have to tell have to do with trumps dealings with russia . Flynns lawyer is certainly no friend of the president. According to buzzfeed, he once describes donald trump as a man churian candidate, questioned his ties to Vladimir Putin. Flynn also had good reason to trade what he may have on trump to save himself from a potential prison term. If its found he lied to the fbi, for example, that could otherwise mean a felony charge. Well, back in 1973, former white House Counsel john dean there he is the key witness who exposed president nixons watergate covered up was granted use immunity. What he said to the committee could not be use the against him in a criminal action. Deans testimony was corroborated by the white house tapes. He proved to be very good at his testimony in terms of accuracy and honesty. Theres nixon heading to the helicopter. Im joined by former white House Counselor to president nixon john dean himself and cynthia objecti oxny. Mr. Dean, thank you for joining us. When i hear immunity, i hear food chain. I immediately think who above him would the public and the prosecutor like to get their hands on to have for dinner that night . In this case, its trump. How do you read it . When you first heard he was asking for immunity, what do you think he was fishing for . You certainly have to have something to trade. As they said back in the nixon days, and its on the tapes, immunity was traded for the big enchilada, and thats pretty accurate. What did you think at the time about the motivation behind . Well, your motivation was pretty clear because they basically hung you out to dry. They were going to kill you, the nixon people from what i know. You were not going to escape their clutches, so you didnt have much choice. I think this guy might be afraid of prison because im looking at these disclosure forms he may not have filled out accurately. He never explained the russian money he got for example. I would think that might be felonious. Your thinking how exposed hes lawyers like to say . Well, with use immunity, chris, they can collect evidence before he testifies and have that evidence in their possession and still prosecutor him even if he testifies about it before the hill. So its a very limited statute. Suppose he gets an immunity bath. Well, thats different. Transactional immunity, thats going to have to be granted by the prosecutors. The congress doesnt have that power. I see. Let me go to cynthia. You know all this from every side. What do you think is in the works here just inside whats going on the committee . What are they really fishing back and forth for . Well, its way too early for them to give anybody immunity, and i dont think they will. The more information he has, the less likely they are to give him immunity because it messes up a federal case down the road. But who cares about flynn . Everybody cares about winning and about knowing exactly what their case is, and they are not going to throw it away. Would a prosecutor give up a chance to get somebody bigger like the president in order to nail somebody lower down . Yeah, but theres no reason to do it now. And youre more likely to mess up the whole case. What happened after ollie north was prosecuted was that because he had gotten immunity in the congress, it messed up the federal case, and it changed the law. Now everybody is gun shy. So no one is going to give him immunity and agree that he should have immunity at the congressional level. My hunch is whats happening is his lawyer would love for him to get immunity so he can mess up the federal case, and thats the game hes playing. Its just not going to work this time. Go ahead, john. Your thinking. I agree with that a hundred percent that the lawyer is trying to mess up a federal case. We dont know if there is or is not a grand jury at this point. But getting immunity at this stage would certainly make it harder for the feds and rely on the precedent in the district of columbia that ollie north set where you really wont let the government get two bites out of the same apple. So clearly thats what the lawyers doing. Shortly before you were fired by Richard Nixon as his counsel, president nixon was heard on the white house taping machine fretting over whether you would turn on him and whether you possessed any damaging information. This is an unusual case. We have it all on tape as you know, john. Lets listen to history. I dont think that kicking deans ass out here is gonna do it. Im not ruling out kicking his ass out, but i think you got to figure what the hell does he know that he could do . The taping system, john, is always better on the telephone as you know. There it is kind of a rackety sound in a big hall, but its just the oval office. He thought you might hurt him because you were in on the meetings. You knew his m. O. Initially he said he had no meetings with me, but then it turned out hed had 37 on the subject of watergate. So suddenly there was much more there than he thought. Of course my conversations arent the worst. What do you make of nixon and trump . How would you compare them . Well, theyre different and similar. Theyre very similar personalities. Nixon, of course, was behind closed doors where trump is right out there in their hostility towards the media, their collection of enemies, their desire for revenge. So they have that similarity. But as i say, trumps out front about it whereas nixon was rather a shy public person in many regards. Yeah. Who do you think had more fun, trump or nixon . I get the feeling trump enjoys it to an extent until the sun comes down and then hes totally alone after 6 00. Then by 6 00 in the morning, hes just nuts to communicate with somebody. He gets on the twitter machine. One of the differences, of course, nixon drank, and he was pretty pretty well gone in the early evening, and that increased as watergate got more serious. Trump doesnt drink, so maybe the tweets will increase. When youre calm by the way, in newweek, you describe how dold tmp has broken all the norms. Heres your words. His behavior is so outrageous it appears unamerican. Its certainly beyond simply being unorthodox because ignorance at this level is neither tolerable or excusable. I can see trump, john, making all the mistakes he could possibly make because he doesnt know they were all made before. Nixon knew everything that happened before. Nixon was knowledgeable. Anyway, i want to go to cynthia on this. What would you recommend mr. Trump to do right now, come clean on all his relations with russia or fight it out . Oh, he wont do that. Hes going to fight it out and stonewall. Thats exactly whats going to happen. The interesting thing is but its not all necessarily criminal if you look at it from a certain perspective. You could argue hes just trying to save the country by bringing peace to the middle east through russias hands and joining us in helping us end the fight in syria. I mean he can argue that. It will be interesting to see how the Prosecution Team eventually actually deals with flynn. I dont really agree with you that hes worried about his exposure in terms of jail time. Flynn . Flynn. I think hes motivated by revenge. You know, he treated the obama people that way when they fired him, and now hes been hung out to dry by the trump people. I think as a prosecutor, i would be appealing to that desire of his to get his reputation back. Hes been destroyed. Hes discredited. He has no way to make money. Hes a liar in the public eye. I think theres a way to get him to come along. Could be both. Do you think its both motives, selfpreservation, keep yourself out of prison . I mean if your Attorney Says to you, you could face two or you could face 20, we got to be careful here, or heres your chance to get even with trump. I think it could be some of both. Certainly he doesnt want no one wants to go to prison. Federal, white collar criminals, its not the same as a lot of state hell holes that people get put in. But not a pleasant place. And i think cynthia makes a good point about his reaction to his former firings. Hes a man that seeks revenge, you know, on those who have done him, he feels, wrong. I can imagine someone like mike flynn thinking more about those staterun hell holes, minimum and heavy security prisons. You dont want to end up there. Maybe going to louisberg or allen wood may be imaginable, but not that. Thank you, john dean. Thank you, cynthia. Up next, today marks equal pay day for 2017, actually its the day when women need to work up until just to make up for what they lost last year in 2016. Ivanka trump is out there saying we need to close that pay gap between men and women, but the president is quietly rolling back protections for women in the workplace. Were going to talk about the fatherdaughter relationship. Thats next. This is hardball, where the action is. Everyone deserves attention, whether youve saved a lot or just a little. At pnc investments, we believe youre more than just a number. So we provide personal Financial Advice for every retirement investor. Hidden in every swing, every chip, and every putt, is data that can make the difference between winning and losing. 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When i first got on ancestry i was really surprised that i wasnt finding all of these germans in my tree. I decided to have my dna tested through ancestry dna. The big surprise was were not german at all. 52 of my dna comes from scotland and ireland. So, i traded in my lederhosen for a kilt. Ancestry has many paths to discovering your story. Get started for free at ancestry. Com. Im melissa ray berker. Heres whats happening. North korea has fired a Ballistic Missile into the east china sea. The launch comes ahead of the u. S. Visit by chinas president. An arizona sheriff is shutting down tent city. That is the controversial complex of jails created by former Schiff Joe Arpaio to ease overcrowding. Lgbt workers are protected from discrimination in the workplace under the Civil Rights Act of 1964. The decision was made by the seventh Circuit Court of appeals. Now back to hardball. Welcome back to hardball. Last month President Trump rolled back the fair pay and safe workplaces order, a regulation that ensured federal contractors were paying women equal to their male counterparts. Well, fast forward to today. Equal pay day. When first daughter and assistant to the president ivanka trump tweeted equal pay day is a reminder that Women Deserve equal pay for equal work. We must work to close the gender pay gap. Well said. But during a Business Leaders town hall today, ivanka wasnt clear on how her own proposed workforce initiatives would empower women. My father wants to create 25 million jobs in this country, and women need to fully participate for that to be realized and for that goal to be realized. Well, the question put to her is where she stands and where does the president stand on getting equal pay for women. She talked about a number of issues related to women, but weve yet to see any action. Im joined by stephanie roth. Stephanie, this is an unusual situation. She is a well placed white house official with an office and a recei receipt i knew and all the perks that go with it. The question is does he had have power to use for women . Theres one more thing that goes with it and thats accountability. Ivanka trump has an extraordinary message. To wake up today and say it is time to address this gender pay gap and do something about it. Now shes got to walk the walk and she can no longer be part of this fine line, well, im just my fathers daughter. Remember when President Trump sent the tweet out attacking nordstrom for pulling her cloethding line, he said, this is just my daughter. Shes not part of the administration. Now she truly is one of the most powerful women in the world. So while planned parenthood is being defunded, so while policies that obama put in place to protect women in the workforce are being rolled back, the u. N. Health fund, which helps women and girls is no longer being funded, the question is, ivanka trump, when are you going to support your message with some actual action . When is she . You act like shes an independentprinciple, or is she a staffer for her father . She sounds like shes a staffer, which means you do what the boss wants, not a person with an individual voice and point of view. You suggest she should have a point of view. She does have a point of view. Just today i did a panel with a senior white house adviser, and he said ivanka and jared are the two people to bet on. On the sunday show, Sarah Huckabee sanders said we should be celebrating that ivanka and jared are there. So lets have an open mind and an open heart. Ivanka, to gayle king, said if being complicit is being a force for good, then im complicit. Well, guess what, theres a huge lane to do good. Giddyup. Ivanka trump sat down with cbs news. She addressed criticisms that she is complicit with her father in his decisions. I hope to make a positive impact. I dont know what it means to be complicit, but, you know, i hope time will prove that i have done a good job and, much more importantly, that my fathers administration is the success that i know it will be. You know, history shows that nepotism doesnt work. It works for the sovereign, but it doesnt work for the people. Thats why over time, no matter how many door this guy smashes through, that has been the practice. There have been exceptions like Bobby Kennedy who spent three years while he ran his brothers president ial campaign, his senate campaign. He was chief council to the Rackets Investigating Committee for three years. He knew what he was doing in washington politics. Shes a newbie. Her husband is a soninlaw. It is like the romanoffs. He is distributing the wealth among his family members power. Its an unusual, unamerican thing to be doing. What doesnt line up is the messaging and the policy. If you think about Jared Kushner for a moment, hes now charged with leading innovation. Whats tied to innovation . Science, technology, research. Ni no funding there. Research, no funding there. How are you going to do it . This is a broader attack. Its not an attack. Were saying, listen, if ivanka and jared want to choose a lane and that lane is to be senior white house advisers, thats a fast lane, and youre going to be held accountable. Do you think they should be independent in their voice or sub servient to the president . Up next, trump and the russian connection. The hardball round table puts together what we know tonight and how it relates to the horror in syria. Can trump cut a deal with putin that keeps the assad family doing what their doing perhaps with poison chemicals on kids. Wait till you see these pictures. Youre watching hardball where the action is. Will your business be ready when growth presents itself . 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It appears everything President Trump has done over the course of his campaign and since hes assumed the office has been, in effect, to win a u. S. Russian alliance to bring peace to war torn syria. This efforts clear from the Washington Post report that a secret meeting was arranged in january, actually nine days before trumps inauguration, between blackwater founder erik prince and a russian ally of putin. Its a major trump donor and a brother of betsy devos meeting with the putin guy. The post describes the meeting, which took place in the Seychelles Islands out in the indian ocean as an apparent effort to establish a back channel line of communication between moscow and the president elect and to explore whether russia could be persuaded to curtail its relationship with iran, including in syria. Well, today were witnessing the brutality of syrias government under assad. The pictures were about to show as i said before are very graphic. Assads regime is now the primary suspect of a chemical attack killing at least 83 people, including 25 children. These pictures ive seen them in closeup. Theyre something else. These are people washing people off of chemical weapons, trying to reduce the damage. Many of them are not going to make it as we see in these pictures. Everybody is doing their best here to save the lives of these people that have been hit by a chemical attack. If confirmed t would be the deadliest chemical attack since assads strike in 2013 which killed over a thousand and nearly pushed the United States to retaliate at that point. Lets bring in the hardball round table. Mark jacobs, anyway area ra hack, a state department spokesperson. This is foreign for sme to think about but the fact is how do you square this circle . How do you bring peace to syria . The horror of it not just in terms of social congestion but lives lost under assad . He doesnt seem to have that much of a heart, and yet he cant be removed. No. And if trump gets together with the russians, even less likely hell be removed. So this has been the task of u. S. Policy for years now, basically since the french bombings in paris, that we are just what, live and let die . Yeah. Its better to have assad in place because thats what the urns have said. The french uses to be the most opposed country in europe to assad, and now theyre one of the almost strongest supporters of assad. It used to be their Country First of all. Wasnt it theirs . At one point, yes. Theyre basically saying that, look, were betting that assad taking control of syria is going to mean less refugees for europe. If the war ends. But whos going to give up over there . People in the middle dont give up. Israelis will fight for all of judea and samaria. The arabs will fight for what they have. It just seems like nobody ever says, i give up. Ill let you have what you have. It just keeps going. This is what happens when you cede leadership responsibilities like the United States is doing. Look, ill hold the Current Administration responsible for not doing anything against these reprehensible acts the same way i would hold the Obama Administration responsible for how do you do that . If assad stays, what do you do . I think there are two ways of going after assad to get him to leave. I mean the one is certainly the political dimension, and trumps given up on that. Were friends with the russians. Were going to allow assad to stay. Im not sure thats the wright way to do it. The other way is coercive diplomacy. I do think the time is long past where we should be looking at strikes against assads chemical weapon facilities, stopping his aircraft from being able to take off. What happens if we shoot down a russian plane . Were going to have be to extraordinarily careful. They can be very careful ask we can reduce the likelihood that happens by what happens if we shoot down a russian plane in syria . Well, when you have a white house thats attuned to diplomacy, that speaks to the russians ahead of time, and that coordinates with them, i think you reduce theikelihood of that. But i dont think the russians are going to help us get rid of asauds. Whats e point of being friends with russia if you cant actually work with them to reach your own leadership objectives. We have a white house that is very clous. This is an opportunity for the white house, trump, secretary tillerson to actually be engaging directly with putin and talking about the human rights abuses that are going on there, to have putin put pressure on assad. Short of that, there really isnt much of an outcry in the United States for intervention. There is an outcry for human rights, horror at the images, but the same challenge that president obama had then in going to congress, you have people who are in congress and in the United States, the general public, making statements condemning the attacks. But not really an interest to go to war. This is lets talk about the reality. Were looking at these pictures of these kids, 25 kids. A lot of them dead now to put it bluntly, but a lot of them suffering obviously. These are kids that just got hit by a chemical weapon. This is going on and on and on and only one part of the world we see this, under assads regime. Should there be a red line again . Should this administration say no more . I mean trump ran on being a man of brash military action. If he was going to chide president obama for being weak or soft on power, then this is an opportunity for him to put his money where his mouth is and answer the 1 million question, which is what is the military action going to be . So youre for all attacks . All of you . Attack assad militarily right now. No, im not. Yes. Attack assad militarily . I think theres other options first. Like what . Nofly zone. Diplomacy with russia. Youre going to use military strikes against i think you use military threat to reach diplomatic goals. Okay. When those are not met, then you have the threat that you can bring to bear. Europe is always a little bit less moralistic than we are. It just is. Theyre a little older and a little more cynical. You say they want to live with this guy no matter how he behaves. Not just him. Look, the one point in the debates where trump was asked specifically and said, i disagree with my Vice President mike pence, was mike pence says assad has to go, and trump in the debate said no. Assad should stay. Assad should stay because that makes syria more stable. So theres been this kind of tacit policy, now overt policy for years that heres the contradiction. Its more complicated than he thought. Its not only more complicated but the syria we thought no longer exists. The national boundary, the population that used to be syria ten years ago is no longer there. You i think partition is probably the best thing you do like we did in ireland and all these other places. We hated it. They hated it in south asia. Everybody hates partition but in the end at least it stops the blood. The round table is sticking with us. Up next, these three will tell me something i dont know. This is hardball, where the action is. Have fun with your replaced windows. Run away [ grunts ] leave him leave him [ music continues ] brick and mortar, what . [ music continues ] [ tires screech ] [ laughs ] [ doorbell rings ] when you bundle home and Auto Insurance with progressive, you get more than a big discount. Thats what you get for bundling home and auto jamie you t sneagood covera. Thanks. Were gonna live forever you t sneagood covera. Thanks. Istart at the new carfax. Comar. 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So he became an ophthalmologist because he was afraid of blood. Rand paul and he could get together. Then he got called back to syria after his brother was killed, and his father because his trainer. Ryan crocker was asked to train Bashar Al Assad on his fathers behalf in International Relations and crocker said he was completely ignorant of International Relations at the time. Did you get a nice note from bashar after your piece . No, we did not. Mark. Everyone is exclaiming that Rex Tillerson has been able to reduce the impacts of the trump budget cuts, but im hearing the cuts impact could be upwards of 50 . That means theyre already arting to plan for closing missions in exactly the times of places we need them. To avoid war. We are in for a world of hurt. Sometimes i think the only is the peace corps okay . Think the peace corps in the end will be okay. The politics behind that are way too strong for trump to hurt. Billionaire china branding. Its actually not trump. It is Warren Buffett has for the month of march, he is the biggest investor in cocacola, his face has been appearing on cherry coke cans all throughout china. Interesting considering that the United States government has been having meetings with china this week. They like rich. Thank you very much. When we return, let me tell you with some history, past and present, tied to the Top College Basketball team in the country. You know it. Its unc. Youre watching hardball, where the action is. You cant predict the market. But through good times and bad. At t. Rowe price. Weve helped our investors stay confident for over 75 years. Call us or your advisor. T. Rowe price. Invest with confidence. Theres nothing more than my vacation. Me so when i need to book a hotel room, i want someone that makes it easy to find what i want. Booking. Com gets it. They offer free cancellation if my plans change. Visit booking. Com. Booking. Yeah. So we know how to cover almost alanything. Ything, even a coupe soup. [woman] so beautiful. [man] beautiful just like you. [woman] oh, why thank you. [burke] and we covered it, november sixth, twothousandnine. Talk to farmers. We know a thing or two because weve seen a thing or two. We are farmers. Bumpadum, bumbumbumbum a car that can seeltima. What you cant. And the new 2017 nissan rogue. A car that could help stop for you. Take on the unexpected. Nissan rogue and altima, with available intelligent safety shield technologies. Let me finish tonight with the university of North Carolina tar heels who last night became for the sixth time the Top College Basketball in the country. Theres some history here. That name tar heel came from soldiers trudging through the North Carolina pine forest. The same could be said for the tar heels season this year. They trudged all the way back from last years loss in the last split seconds of the final game to villanova. They came back to beat another great team, gonzaga with an 80 run in the last nights final 100 seconds. Ed the play at the end, especially by joel berry, the point guard for carolina, who scored as i said, not just all night, just at the very times it mattered. Thats what championships are all about. As a grad student, i spent a good year of my life in chap pa hill, that southern part of heavy, and unc is one of the countrys great universities, an institution that has helped bring North Carolina into the 21st century. Thank god, by the way, for dean smith, the coach to whom roy williams, last nights winning coach paid tribute to as his mentor. To North Carolina, dean smith was so much more, as the state itself can surely be so much more. I hold personally to the faith that the tar heel state will give up to that great example of that great man of tolerance and generosity. Thats all it needs to be perfect. Thats hardball for now. Thanks for being with us. All in with chris hayes starts right now. Tonight on all in. I was a National Security adviser. Susan rice strikes back. My job is to protect the American People and the security of our country. As the cloud hanging over the trump campaigns ties to russia grows darker. People will probably be charged, and i think people will probably go to jail. Tonight, my exclusive interview with the ranking democrat on how intelligence,