Transcripts For MSNBCW Hardball With Chris Matthews 20161210

I decided, i guess it was, about ten days ago, november 29th, that the whole thing was becoming kind of very confusing and very difficult for the president elect and my desire to be in the cabinet was great, but it wasnt that great. And he had a lot of terrific candidates. Well, giuliani said the one name he does not think should fill a cabinet post is mitt romney. Lets get that. Lets listen. I probably agree with newt and be Mike Huckabee and a group of other very loyal supporters of president elect trump. I thought mitt went over the line in the things that he said about donald trump. You can make friends and make up, but i would not see him as a candidate for the cabinet. Well, thats for sure. Anyway, the state Department Post is one of the last cabinet posts that remains unfilled. An announcement is expected next week on that. Meanwhile, were watching a stage in grand rapids, michigan, where donald trump is set to address supporters at another thank you rally this hour. Well monitor his speech and bring you any major news out of it. We begin tonight with giulianis desire or decision to take his name off the list from secretary of state. What does it mean for the transition . Nbcs Kristen Welker is in grand rapids, tonight. Kristen, i get the feeling that Rudy Giuliani really, really, really wanted to be secretary of state. He campaigned for it. It would have been a hell of a decision, but what happened . Reporter look, i think a couple of things happened, chris. I think, one, trump world was divided. Weve been reporting on this for weeks. You had a lot of people who thought that mitt romney would be Rudy Giuliani would be great. Hes a longtime loyalist. And then you have people who have been campaigning against mitt romney. On the other hand, you have people who were expressing concerns about Rudy Giuliani, that he was too much of a hardliner, that he wasnt enough of a counterpoint to someone like a michael flynn. And then, of course, you had his background. The fact that there were questions regarding his past business dealings. Now, Reince Priebus has been very clear, all of that checked out. Still, chris, i think it left a shadow over Rudy Giuliani. And the bottom line is, and you heard Rudy Giuliani refer to it himself, the fact that it was becoming complicated for the president elect. That there were these two factions within trump world. Some who were fighting for romney, some fighting for Rudy Giuliani, and i think ultimately, he felt as though it was getting too complicated. Just as he said. And i think the president elect felt as much, as well. I also think other names have emerged, as top contenders, including Rex Tillerson. He is, of course, the ceo of exxonmobil. Hes someone who has done business deals in russia, in the middle east. And i am told that president elect donald trump and his top advisers are increasingly impressed by Rex Tillerson, and of course, he met with mr. Tillerson several days ago. So i think the fact that you have the president elect expanding his search, and you have all of these complicating factors around Rudy Giuliani, ultimately, Rudy Giuliani and the president elect felt as though this was the best decision and that it wasnt going to be Rudy Giuliani. But youre absolutely right, it is a stunning moment. Because for quite some time, a lot of people thought that it could be Rudy Giuliani. And now, tonight, a very different outcome, chris. Ive got one more thought. Youve watched trump, and i think theres sympathetic goiomn here. He doesnt mind being accused of too conservative or right wing. But i do think he wants to avoid any distraction in the first hundred days. The president only gets a little bit of time to get something done, as we all know, even from reagan and people like that, successful president s. Only get a few months. He doesnt want to have that tainted by some wild goose chase scandal problem, whether its giuliani. Hes in the same business in a rougher way, to chris christie. Goodbye, chris christie. In fact, goodbye to all your people. I dont want any problem you on the bridge. Is that whats going on . He just doesnt want any scandal story, true or not, to distract him from his oomph right up front, when he gets when hes inaugurated. Reporter i think youre absolutely right. And look, we saw that with Michael Flynns son, right . He was putting all of these conspiracy theories out on social media and he was fired, effectively, from advising his father. And so i think youre right. That was a real concern for the president elect. And just to play a little bit of chess here, chris, tonight, president elect trump is going to appear with the state party chair, rhonda mcdaniels. She is president elect trumps leading candidate to be rnc chair. If she, in fact, does become the rnc chair, would he have would he want two romneys in key positions . By all accounts, the answer to that would be no. And again, tt underscores that were increasingly looking at candidates like a Rex Tillerson to fulfill that allimportant position of secretary of state. The transition is very insistent upon the fact that hes not going to rush through this decision, because it is so vitally important and that they are expecting a decision some time next week, but it might not come next week. Hes going to make the decision, when he feels as though he has made the right one, chris. Okay, denying romney the secretary of state job, but giving his daughterinlaw the rnc job is like not giving you your big present for christmas, but giving you a Stocking Stuffer in with the animals. Great analogy. Well, last night, donald trump praised the men and women hes chosen for his cabinet. I believe were in the process of putting together one of the great cabinets that has ever been assembled in the history of our nation. Do you like it so far, everybody . What a crowd pleaser. Anyway, Anthony Scaramucci is executive board member of the trump transition, itself. Hes the guy. And usa todays senior political reporter, heidi przybyla, also joins us. Heidi, thank you for this. Lets listen to what anthony has to say and if theres any factual corrections you want to get into, we will make sure the reporting is available to our audience. Anthony, this guy, trump, and ive known him for 20 years, i dont dislike him or anything. Some of the things he says, i make clear i dont. But lets talk about some things. Generals somebody said this was going to be like seven days in may. Youve got the general running the defense department, running the National Defense department, why all the brass . We have a civilian government. First of all, i think these guys are terrific guys and lets just call them for what they are. Theyre civilians now. A few years out. Theyre civilians that have valorously served the country. Lets make that clear to everybody. And one of the great things about these guys, you think about the guys hes put in place, they get along with each other. And youre going to need support on that border. And general kelly is probably going to help the Mexican Government with the drug and gun cartels, which will reduce crime in the United States and drug trafficking. So to me, i think its a harmony of a lot of great things, chris. And this is something about mr. Trump that i think everyone knows. Hes absolutely fearless about finding the people that have the highest aptitude, that can go into the specific jobs and be the most efficacious at them. But cabinet ministers arent supposed to be yes, sir types the. Have you met im just saying. Generals dont just go, yes, sir, snap to. Theyre supposed to be collegial, challenging the president. So theres a Real Community there of thought. Well, first of all do you think generals are going to be first of all, theyre not generals anymore. Secondly, have you met these three guys . Because no, i havent. Because i sit right next to general flynn all day. And i wouldnt describe him as someone who isnt a challenging sort of a guy. Moreover, john kelly and i know each other from benz, another terrific person. General mattis, i dont know personally. Mad dog what do you think of that nickname . He likes warrior monk. Lets go with warrior monk. Hes one of the most well read generals in the history of the United States and hes a brilliant leader. And ill tell you something, you cant find anybody in any of the Armed Services that dislike so youre not worried about civilian control. Youre not worried this is going to be too many generals . Im not worried and i can give some Historical Context here from general washington through Andrew Jackson through eisenhower, you get less casualties when you put these guys in charge. Im not against one or two, but this is a lot. And Andrew Puzder is the ceo of several major fast food chains and earlier this week he spoke about using machines to replace some functions of human workers. Here he goes. Machines are always polite, they always upsell, they never take a vacation, they never show up late. Theres never a slip and fall. Or an age, sex, or race discrimination case. Well, with of course thats true but hes the labor secretary. Isnt the Labor Department wasnt it created to look out for the interests of actual human being workers . Of course it is. Hes just not for robots but, you know, youre trying to present him as sort of callous, right . But hes not really a callous guy. I know the guy personally. He loves the working class community. One of the reasons why he was given this job is that were not talking about a 15 an hour job. Were trying to get 60anhour jobs. One of the big problems here talking about robots, theres no robot manufacturing in the United States, chris. How about paying people 60 an hour to make these robots . The robots are coming no matter who you put so it doesnt bother you when you go to laguardia and see nothing but computer basically, laptops, a whole bunch of laptops where you order your donuts, hamburgers, coffee . Theres no human beings working there, or hardly any. We can look through history at the Industrial Transformation and see a Brighter Future for the people who used to be doing that at laguardia. But whos going to fight for minimum wage in this administration . Nobody. The Labor Department wont do it. The secretary he named is opposed to minimum wage. I think the biggest advocate will be the president elect. But hes against it. Hes really not against it. He says he wants to make it a statebystate decision. Hes told people the minimum wage . Yes. Hes told people on this network and other networks that it should be higher than it is now. But what he doesnt want to do is have a onesizefitsall for all 50 states. What about this guy, pruitt, the ag down in oklahoma for the oil patch. This is the Environmental Protection agency. Its the one agency of government whose job it is to protect the environment. And this guy defends the oil patch. Hes against all this regulation. He wants to defend the oil industry. Hes obviously got to get confirmed and in the confirmation process, well learn he wants to strike a balance between the two things. Heidi, give me a portrait of how you would describe the competition of this new administration. Generals, billionaires, as i said in bernie accent. They all seem to fit a pattern. Rich guys or generals. I think anthony is right about the general aspect of it. I went back and looked and obama had also appointed about three generals at or about this time. And mattis and kelly get great reviews. But i think the broader issue is whether we are seeing kind of a cabinet version of what we saw with the tea party in congress, which is where you have a whole flank of people coming in Whose Mission is unclear as to whether build up these agencies and fulfill their Current Mission or to basically claw them back and kind of claw back the government itself. Like with the Environmental Protection agency. The word the name of it is to protect the environment. And you have a Climate Change denier in charge of that. Betsy devos is very much against public education. So, i think there is a question just about the broader mandate. And what trump sold on the campaign trail. There is a pattern here. The Environmental Protection agency, you get a guy whos basically an oil patch guy and doesnt believe in all of this regulation. You put a head in charge of the education department, devos is a fine person, but not a big advocate for public education. Okay, so, actually, i think, again, youll have to go to these confirmation hearings and what youll find with her, shes an advocate for students. Shes trying to look for the best solution for students across a broad Cross Section of the country. Im the product of a public school, so i can tell you about betsy. She wants very robust public schooling. Do me a favor . Yeah. Promise me john bolten will not be in charge of the United States foreign policy. Because donald trump ran against these stupid wars. And to put bolten in there in any capacity, youre putting the biggest war hawk in the country in charge of war and foreign policy. Would he do that . Is that possible . Bolten . Well, listen, i dont want to rule anybody out, but i think the process has been fascinating for me to observe from my seat. You know what im talking about, dont you . I do. Trump ran against these stupid wars. Youre suggesting hes a neocon. He is one what i will tell you about the president elect, hes trying to find people that are not subscribed to any anchored ideology. Well, look beyond john bolten. Im allowed to editorialize here. Scaramucci, great to have you on. And heidi, thank you, as always. When we come back, well continue to wait for the beginning of dronald trumps bi rally out tonight in grand rapids. Were watching it live. Plus, president obama orders a full review of electionrelated hacking. This is big news. What effect did it have on the election . Were the russians involved . And lets check out what the intelligence agencies have to say about russias role here and whether they are to blame for these hacks. This is something donald trump has repeatedly ignore ordinary denied. Thats a big story, coming up next. The russian role. And another addition of vintage trump coming up tonight. Youll hear from him tonight in michigan, but its his past interviews where hes been the most revealing about the kind of president hes going to be. Finally, let me finish with something that needs to be said about the American Hero we lost this week, with john glenn. This is hardball, the place for politics. [burke] at farmers, weve seen almost everything, so we know how to cover almost anything. Even a rodent ridealong. [dad] alright, buddy, dont forget anything [kid] i wont, dad. [captain rod] happy Tuesday Morning captain rod here. Its pretty hairy out on the interstate. Traffic is literally crawling, but there is some movement on the eastside overpass. Getting word of another collision. [burke] it happened. December 14th, 2015. And we covered it. Talk to farmers. We know a thing or two because weve seen a thing or two. We are farmers. Bumpadum, bumbumbumbum hashtag stuffy nose. Hashtag no sleep. Hashtag mouthbreather. Just put on a breathe right strip. It instantly opens your nose up to 38 more than Cold Medicine alone. Shut your mouth and say goodnight mouthbreathers. Breathe right. Well, we continue to watch that podium there in grand rapids, michigan. The latest stop on Donald Trumps thank you tour. Well be monitoring what trump says tonight at that rally, and keeping an eye out for any news he might make. Well be right back. Why pause a spontaneous moment . Cialis for daily use treats ed and the urinary symptoms of bph. Tell your doctor about your medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. Do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, or adempas® for pulmonary hypertension, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. Do not drink alcohol in excess. To avoid longterm injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. If you have a sudden decrease or loss of hearing or vision, or an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. Ask your doctor about cialis. He wears his army hat, he gets awalks aroundliments. With his army shirt looking all nice. And then people just say, thank you for serving our country and im like, thats my dad. Male vo no one deserves a warmer welcome home. Thats why were hiring 10,000 members of the military community by the end of 2017. Im very proud of him. Male vo comcast. Welcome back to hardball, where were continuing to keep an eye on that donald trump rally in grand rapids, tonight. Well be monitoring, as we often do, to find out if theres any news in. In the meantime, president obama has offered a full review of the cyberattacks carried out against the Democratic National committee and other political entities during the 2016 campaign. Wow, this is necessary. The u. S. Intelligence community has already blamed russia for the hacking, but the review will compile a more complete dossier of evidence for the president before the end of his term. This is a quick win. He wants to get it done before he leaves office. Heres how lisa monaco described it at a breakfast with reporters this morning. This is consistent with the work that we did over the summer, to engage both the congress on the threats that we were seeing and state and local stake holders that i just spoke to in terms of providing them both information and tools to defend themselves, and help them confront the risk. We may be in have crossed into a new there shareshold. Meanwhile, president elect donald trump may continue to cast doubt on the u. S. Intelligence community that russia was, indeed responsible. On tuesday, he told time magazine, quote, i dont believe they interfered. It could be russian, china, or some guy at home in new jersey. This comes as a group of republicans prepare to lead their own investigation. Heres what graham told cnn yesterday. Im going after russia in every way you can go after russia. I think theyre one of the most destabilizing influences on the world stage. I think they did interfere with our elections. And i want putin personally to pay a price. Should trump take a tougher tone with russia . I think trump should take a real tough tone with russia. Because if he doesnt, youre going to allow russia to begin to break apart alliances. Im joined right now by captain ram pell, opinion columnist at the Washington Post as well as msnbc political analyst, the great jonathan capehart, opinion writer at the Washington Post, as well. I want to start with you, jo jonathan. I want a point of view and some attitude. Suppose it came out that the russkis, the russians of old, our old cold war enemies, if you will, we thought we were going to blow up the world, one way or another, were involved with secretly putting out Bad Information and it embarrassed the republican candid and imagine that word got out that the election went in the direction the russkis apparently wanted it to go. I would expect millions of rightwingers would be pounding the streets of washington for the last several weeks. They wouldnt have had a swla come reaction of the democrats and progressives. Yeah, lets have an investigation. Your thoughts . The russians, we all know, by 17 agencies got involved with digging up the stuff and hacking the stuff from the dnc, expose all of John Podestas stuff. Bringing in all this email. Your thoughts . The fact that there isnt screaming from the rooftops by conservatives shows you just how other worldly a state the United States is in right now. Every american, democrats and republicans, should be concerned at the highest levels that the russians have possibly done something, done something bad or nefarious with our elections. And the fact that republicans, who used to own the flag, used to own, you know, strength in the face of russia, used to own, you know, Strong Military preparedness and all of that, that they are quiet in all of this, is astounding. Imagine if it were the other way around. Thats what im saying, brother. Im telling you, its unbelievable how this has become let me go right now to katherine, because what jonathan noted there, the fact that republicans, like lynds grahlynm and john corker, they want to know if the russians did, in fact, get involved with our election. Of course, they do. Of course why do you think theyre motivated . Well, the charitable explanation is that they care about our national security. They care about intervention within our democratic process, our political process. If you want to talk about the more selfinterested reason, its that today its the democrats, tomorrow it could be the republicans. They dont really like trump very much either. Theres that, too. But my point is that russians are playing the long gape here. In the shortterm, they care about getting trump into office. You think they did that on purpose . They wanted him in the office or wanted to mess it up . I think its both. Thats where i was going with this. In the shortterm, they definitely prefer donald trump. In the longterm, their goal is to destabilize the worlds number one superpower. What i like about this, jonathan, only a moment for you to get back on. Its not one of these nineyear Lawrence Welch investigations. Obama wants this capped off, concluded by the time he leaves off on the 20th of january. Right, so that everyone knows that what was what with this election and the russians involved, the russians involvement and how extensive it is, so that the Incoming Administration will have no choice but to do something about it if there is something to do. And for the American People to know the extent to which the russians were involved and if everything is aokay, then that for the American People, i think, should put a lid on whatever conspiracy theories that might be out there, that the election was sorry, katherine, is there going to be a reaction from russia if we conclude we do it. We put out an official paper by january 19th of 2017. You guys do did it. You russkis did it. We know you did it . Im sure theyll declare that they had nothing to do with it. That they did not intercede. Meanwhile, saying, oh, yeah, notice how vulnerable our, you know, our frenemy is. Our frenemy. Our frenemy. And how we might have potentially affected them. Catherine rampell, always nice to have you. And jonathan capehart, have a nice weekend. We continue to monitor Donald Trumps rally out in grand rapids, michigan. By the way, thats rowna Romney Mcdaniel on the stage, the leading candidate to be the next leader of the Republican National convention. And up next, the chief strategist to Hillary Clintons campaign, the great joel benson, the grownup in that race will join us. This is hardball, the place for politics. Style lets you stand out from the herd. Whats inside sets you apart. The cadillac escalade. Enjoy our best offers of the year. Mcould be great on the outside,k ofnot so great on the inside. Her advice . Strengthen both. Go pro with crest prohealth advanced. Its uniquely formulated to strengthen teeth inside. And is better at strengthening the outside. Than colgate total. My checkup was great. My hygienist told me to try. A mouthwash. So i tried crest. It does so much more than give me fresh breath. Crest prohealth mouthwash provides all. Of these benefits to help you get better dental checkups. Go pro with crest prohealth mouthwash. Checkup . Nailed it. But i keep it growing by making every dollar count. Thats why i have the spark cash card from capital one. With it, i earn unlimited 2 cash back on all of my purchasing. And that unlimited 2 cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business. Which adds fuel to my bottom line. Whats in your wallet . Hi, im richard lui in the msnbc newsroom. Jurors in the dylann roof trial were shown a videotaped confession from the gunman. It began by roof telling authorities, i went to that church in charleston and i did it. It looks as though there will be no government shutdown. The senate is expected to pass a temporary funding bill. Parts of upstate new york are being pummeled by lakeeffect snow, which at some points have been falling at a rate of 2 inches per hour. Now back to hardball. Its now clear that socalled fake news can have realworld consequences. This isnt about politics or partisanship. Lives are at risk. Its a danger that must be addressed and addressed quickly. Its imperative that leaders in both the private sector and the Public Sector step up to protect our democracy and innocent lives. Welcome back to hardball. That was Hillary Clinton yesterday, at the United States capitol, in just her second highprofile public appearance since losing the president ial election last month. Well, secretary clinton addressed fake news and urged congress to tackle the issue, which at times challenged her president ial bid and ultimately lead to a shooting innocent at a washington, d. C. Pizzeria earlier this week by a man who believed bogus conspiracy theorieses about clintons campaign. Im joined right now by the chief strategist to Hillary Clintons campaign, joel benens benenson. I dont want to rehash, but some things that came out of that campaign weve got to worry about. Fake news. When you and i grew up, when Walter Cronkite told us something, that was about it. The major newspapers. Now people are getting information from god knows where, including alex jones and people like that, and theyre acting on it. And i think the problem for mainstream media, journalists, print, television, theyre having to make decisions in realtime. Were in the midst of this revolution. Its not completed. Every day were dealing with new things. When this campaign started, no one was talking about fake news. Six months ago, no one was talking about fake news. Today, president obama asked his intelligence agencies to report to him about what happened in terms of russias interference, potentially in this election. Things happened here in the last six or seven months that are unprecedented. I think it puts everybody in a tough spot. I think it puts guys like you in a tough spot. You can get punked, too. People call in with somebody. A younger person, somebody not smart enough to know this is bs. They get it right to the person on the air, reading it on the air, and they look like an idiot. And somebody tweets it and it goes viral. Goes to a million or 2 Million People like that. Trumps Campaign Manager that Hillary Clinton did not have a message. Thats why this other stuff worked. Lets watch her. The fact is that this campaign ran a race where we reached into those working class voters. They were the base of our support. And chris, all they needed to do was have a compelling, sticky, persuadable, aspirational message to the American People. If you can sit here right now and tell me as a brilliant political mind what Hillary Clintons message was, im listening. What was it . All i heard was, were not donald trump. Thats not a message. Thats a screed. Well, theres kellyanne. And i have to tell you, shes a part skpan has a point of view, it seems to me you need a very powerful message to drive the crazy fake news. Did you have a message . Secondly, why do people believe the worst about politicians . Did some politician or some political friend of a candidate is running some sort of sex slavery operation out of the basement of a pizzeria. Why would anybody believe that . Which part do you want me to take . The second or the first. Look, obviously we had a message. Hillary clinton was running a campaign all the way through about building an economy that works for everyone, not just corporations and the very wealthy and those at the top. That the Economic System has been working for those who had gotten 99 to have the gains. She was a true populist in this race. I think the voters that kellyanne was talking about are in for a rude awakening when donald trump proposes and sk as for the biggest tax cuts in history for those corporations. Now were all going there. I think no, with i think thats a real problem. Did you make mistake in talking about too much redistribution, talking too much dividing up the pie and not talking enough about baking more pies, making more jobs. Did you talk Economic Growth . Absolutely, we talked about strong growth and fair growth. We talked about investing in the jobs of the future. Yeah, because fair growth is strong growth. You cant have strong Growth Without wages rising. Look, the reality in the country, whether you want to accept it or not, or kellyanne or donald trump wants to accept it is we have had record corporate profits and wages are stagnant. So theres a massive disconnect thats why they voted for somebody to change the whole thing. Well, they voted for somebody who i think will shake up washington. That is their biggest pain point. I believe that they think washingtons broken. Hes a bomb thrower. Ho shell shake it up. Im watching this campaign really close, and i was over in ireland before the election and said, dont worry. Pennsylvanias the firewall. I know that state. Theyre never going to go for pa republican. When did it strike you, and then the night before, i get a call from kellyanne, hows pennsylvania looking . And i said, it looks like three points you lose. I just talked to rendell and looks like a threepoint loss. What happened in your head over that 24 hours. Did something happen at the end . I think things were tightening up at the end. And i think that we saw in a couple of states, in a lot of those pennsylvania, wisconsin, michigan, by the way, at the end, those three together whyd they move . There are about 80,000 votes separating us across three states. Whyd it happen . I could look back at probably six to ten different things, chris, and any one of them i could say had some truth in it, probably. I think at the end, i think the comey thing was a factor. The fbi thing, the other thing we had in this race was a variable of third party voters. We always had trump defectors and hillary dont you hate people who come up to you and say, i voted for gary johnson im sure theyre feeling great today. I hope they get the message. The problem when you have that, its something you cant control, totally. Theyre a small group of people, and if they decide to go one way later. And i think his voters solidified his third Party Defectors and ours didnt, particularly when fbi director comey did what he did 11 days out. We saw momentum break. And their fabritsio did a podcast and said he saw that as well. Hillary won debates, hillary won money, hillary ran ground and had the best tv ads. Was traveling around, the old vaudeville style of politics, five or six stops a day, was that the smart move in the end . I think it probably helped him. He looked people were seeing is him every day. We were out there every day, too. We just may have missed a few spots we should have been in. I was outside looking in, but people come up to me and they say reasonable things p. Would bernie have won . Uld bernie have beaten him . I dont think so. Are you sure or not sure . Tell me if youre not sure. I cant be sure, because he wasnt in the race. Can you imagine him beating him, trump . Can i imagine him . Look, i dont know. There are things you cant imagine about trump beating him. What about joe biden. Could he have beaten him . I dont know. Hes got to carry obamas third term. It doesnt do any good everybody does it no, youre doing it. People come up to me all the time. They say, bernie or bust, would he have won . I dont know. He would say over and over again, im a democratic socialist. You tell me you know pennsylvania. Do you think people in pennsylvania will vote for a socialist. I think its easy to say what you think would have happened when the person isnt in the race and doesnt have the spotlight on him. I get up and call my brothers. The best thing to do. One of my family members doesnt like hillary, really bad. I was surprised, because i never knew about that. Number two, righttolife thing really popped up out in the burbs, my brother said, he never saw so many older people with walkers showing up. It was the Supreme Court issue. Trump, i dont know if he believes a word of it, but he played it. But the turnout numbers dont show that. The turnout numbers do show that the third party voters were all over the age of 45 opinion only 2 to 3 of those voted third party. The younger ones, probably some leftover from our primary. Im sorry, i have to go. Everybody loves nate silver. But these numbers guys have really gotten to me. Im not me too. You should be. Anyway, the grownup in the campaign, joel benenson. Great watching you and great having you on. Up next, all week long, were taking a look back at some of the more revealing things donald trump has said in interviews over the years, including with me. Were calling it vintage trump and we have that coming up next. Youre watching hardball, the place for politics. Hello, im joy reid in new york. Well get right back to hardball in a minute, but donald trump is now on stage at his rally in michigan. Lets listen in. [ cheers and applause ] p [ cheers and applause ] im here tonight for one main reason. To say thank you to the incredible people of michigan. [ cheers and applause ] you went out and pounded the pavement, organized your fellow citizens, and propelled to victory a grassroots movement, the likes of which actually, actually the world, well just have to say the country the world has never seen. And now were going to bring back your jobs, were going to bring back new jobs. I also want to give a very special thank you to our veterans, who have been so incredible. Our Service Members and our military members. Boy, dide get their votes, thank you. Big numbers. Americas men and women in yump are the finest and bravest the world has ever known. So to all who have worn the uniform, i say right now on behalf of all of us, thank. Thank you very much. We will never, ever let you down, believe me. Youll see that with the vets, because were going to take care of our vets. Were boing to honor your service and sacrifice and that begins with respecting the american flag. We will respect the american flag. Thats the flag that our soldiers fought and died for and were going to protect it. Youll see, were going to protect it. One man who understands the meaning of service is general mad dog mattis. Earlier this week, i formally announced my plans to nominate him as your new secretary of defense. Even the democrats are loving him. Isnt that nice . What can you say . Hes got some record. Let me tell you. Hes got a record of winning. Thats what we want. We want to win. When he had to do battle, whether he agreed with it or not, but when he had to do battle, he won and he won fast. And there was no games. No games. So hes going to be great. Secretary of defense. I believe were in the process of putting together one of the great cabinets that has ever, assembled in our nations history this evening. Thats donald trump at his latest rally in grand rapids, michigan. Well continue to monitor what he says if he makes any. Right now lets go back to hardball with chris matthews. I just know that i follow my instinct and my instinct, if i follow that instinct, and if i go with my original instinct, as opposed to waiting, procrastinating, and just seeing what happens over a period of time, i have historically done better. Ill do spur of the moment things, and they are the things that tend to work out the best. Welcome back to hardball. That was donald trump discussing what he called his good instincts in a 1985 interview. Well, his instincts did ultimately help him reach the white house. His offthecuff rhetoric often provoked backlash on the campaign trail. In tonights edition of vintage trump, well look at his stance on issues of diversity and culture. Speaking about africanamericans, trump said that a welleducated africanamerican is afforded greater opportunity in this country than educated white counterparts. Lets hear trump on that. A welleducated black has a tremendous advantage over a welleducated white, in terms of the job market. And i think sometimes a black may think that they dont really have the advantage or this or that, but in actuality, today, currently, its a great ive said on occasion, even about myself, if i were starting off today, i would love to be a welleducated black, because i really do believe they have an actual advantage. Author of the book, the true american murder and mercy in texas, nbcs katy tur has covered the Trump Campaign since day one in the campaign, and adam chandler, Senior Associate Editor at the atlantic. I dont know who to start with. Katy, ill start with you. You know, sometimes people have conversations, different backgrounds, different ethnic groups. Ive never heard anybody say that an africanamerican has a better chance than a white person in this country. In fact, ive heard from people who i respect immensely say that their experience has been that the bar gets raised just as theyre about to go through it. Just as theyre about to meet the usual standard, the standard gets changed. Wellheeled circles of privileged people will often say or sometimes say, ive heard it say, that i dont feel like i got into harvard because my place was taken by somebody through affirmative action. That was something that people used to say, maybe a little bit more a decade or two ago, than they are today, at least from what i have heard in just my life. So this was you could say that it was more of a product of the time. 1989. But at the same time, you know, donald trump is donald trump. And this is vintage donald trump. Youre thinking about this. I dont think people believe this who are people of color. I dont think i hear it from them. So lets just im a writer and i spend a lot of time looking at language in a close way. So i look at that clip and i think its very revealing. The substance, but also how he speaks. First of all, the a black. A black, right . People who use the phrase, a black, its already telling you what road were going down. How so . Its dehumanizing. Its usually a pretty good clue to racist beliefs, as a kind of whats the correct way . An africanamerican, a black person. And im just saying, if you go out into society, its a pretty good by the way, i know the answer, but i wanted to have you say it. But i think more deeply in that clip, its the you know, this phrase that has now kind of gained ground of white explaining. A rich white man explasplaining. I rich, white man. And he says at some point, so the black people may think, just based on life experiences. And he is explaining to them that their experience or lack of opportunity, donny knows better. Anyway, in an interview after the release of his book, the art of the comeback, trump spoke about how he views women. Lets catch this. I love women. I think theyre the most beautiful things that you can imagine. I think women are just magnificent. I think women are not the weaker sex at all, in many respects. I think theyre the stronger sex. I think that and i mentioned this strongly in the book that women are more aggressive sexually than men in my opinion. The fact is that these very aggressive folks. Unbelievable. And i say far more aggressive than men. Physical lly aggressive with you . Physically aggressive. Sexually aggressive. Women are more aggressive than men. Cant keep their hands off you . Im not saying me. Im not even really saying me. Im just saying that sexually, women are more aggressive than men. And i think men are pretty aggressive. I know i am. Well, he covered all the bases with that, didnt he. Didnt that all seem pretty narcissistic, im just asking. Its all about his experience with women, hes obviously advertising here, which hes suggesting is quite grand, to put it lightly. And therefore he knows all about women in that way. And hes basically saying that they just love him, they cant keep their hands off him. Although he cant keep his hands off them, too. Its outrageous, you might say, and its narcissistic. But hes not running for office back then. Hes not running for office, and hes also hes also just kind of being this brash person we know him to be. The tape shows him over and over again being this huge person. And this is part of it. This is part of the conversation with him. And it doesnt sound all that different from what we see throughout the years. Katy . Things. Most beautiful things. A black. Things. Same vein. Yeah, i did notice, without casting grand judgment, that all the women hes named to major positions and some of them are obviously very credible people, like governor haly and people like that and devos, people like that, who are very big on charter schools, theyre all very attractive people. He seems to like that idea. Am i the only one whos noticed, this is the way he sort of casts. Im not into the donald trump women cabinet rating business. But in that clip, theres things youll leave me all alone on that one . Totally leave you hanging. Even though its friday. And the second part, where he says, you know, women are magnificent. And women are the better i just want to say, one of the defining features ive had the chance to travel to a lot of developing countries, traditional societies where women are much more oppressed than here. One of the telltale signs of very signs that are very bad to women is that people are constantly putting them on a pedestal. Oh, theyre our sacred treasures yeah, look at saudi arabia, women cant drive, because we dont want them to potentially hurt their ovaries. Seriously yeah, theres all sorts of, we need to protect you, because you need to be kept pure and you feed to be kept as beautiful as you are, you need to be kept as a thing. Okay, we have our own version of that. Sort of the george w. , we all married up and all of this, women are smarter than we are. All that barlderdash. This was language that was used in the United States, were talking about not giving women the vote a hundred years ago, that women were too pure for the dirty pool of politics. Too delicate. Exactly. Speaking of women, heres a prominent one, long before mike pence, trump revealed to me in 1999, if he decided to run for 2000 in president , he had another running mate in mind. Here he is on her. Would you consider a woman for your running mate . And if so, who . Well, i would consider it, and as chris can tell you, i threw out the name of a friend of mine, who i think the world of, shes great. And some people thought it was an incredible idea, some didnt. But, oprah. I said, oprah winfrey. Whos really great. And i think we would be a very formidable team. Another name drop. The two of them together would be formidable. A friend of mine, oprah winfrey. Good name drop. Go ahead. I think its safe to say this is probably not one of oprahs favorite things. The claim that he wanted her . Right. Thank you. The roundtable is sticking with us. Up and next, the three will tell us something i dont know. This is hardball, the place for politics. Santa i want a chevy for christmas. This holiday season, people have a lot to say about the chevy red tag sales event. Dream truck right here. A tv. Great. Wow please santa. Please, please, please, please, please santa i want to go fast. Woooo that snds like christmas. Its the chevy red tag sales event. Now through december 12th, get 0 financing for 72 months on remaining 2016 chevy models. Find new roads at your local chevy dealer. Gaviscon is a proven heartburn remedy that gives you fastacting, longlasting relief. It immediately neutralizes acid and only gaviscon helps keep acid down for hours. For fastacting, longlasting relief, try doctorrecommended gaviscon. toilet flush if you need an opioid to manage your chronic pain, you may be sooo constipated it feels like everyone can go. Except you. Tried many things . Still struggling to find relief . You may have opioidinduced constipation, oic. Its different and may need a different approach. Opioids block pain signals, but can also block activity in the bowel. Which is why it can feel like your opioid pain med is slowing your insides to a crawl. Longing for a change . Have the conversation with your doctor about oic, and ask about prescription treatment options. Made on behalf of those living with chronic pain and struggling with oic. Were back with the hardball roundtable. Tell me something i dont know. A lot of people that i know who hate donald trump but are trying to figure out how to live the next four years are really on the fence about courage and are thinking about do we speak out or do we do the open mind kumbaya thing. Whats courageous, to have an open mind or to slam him . To take this man at his word, to understand that many of the signs of autocracy are things that hes said and starting to do and to not think foolishly that this country and this system is somehow exceptional in its imperviousness to going dark ways. Im more optimistic. Im looking for the pony in the crap pile myself. Its not that deep. I was just going to tell you dark, its not deep. Sources say that the rnc is very close to announcing that romney will take over as chairperson. Carrier and the deal and across the river in brooklyn carrier was host of the first serious air conditioner, theres a printin factory that printed judge magazine which is a forerunner to the onion that had humidity and the illustrations would leak and they had to throw out all the work. So Willis Carrier created a system to make it cold enough and less humid and thats a long way of saying you can thank modern journalism for air conditioning. Thank you. Air conditioning changed the entire map of the United States geopolitically. It created the south. Places like houston, you can live there now. When we return, let me finish with something that needs to be said about the hero we lost yesterday, john glenn. Youre watching hardball, the place for politics. [burke] at farmers, weve seen almost everything, so we know how to cover almost anything. Even a rodent ridealong. [dad] alright, buddy, dont forget anything [kid] i wont, dad. [captain rod] happy Tuesday Morning captain rod here. Its pretty hairy out on the interstate. Traffic is literally crawling, but there is some movement on the eastside overpass. Getting word of another collision. [burke] it happened. December 14th, 2015. And we covered it. Talk to farmers. We know a thing or two because weve seen a thing or two. We are farmers. Bumpadum, bumbumbumbum what bad knee . Ull ask what throbbing head . Advil makes pain a distant memory nothing works faster stronger or longer what pain . Advil. My swthis scarf all thatsara. Left to remem. What she washed this like a month ago the long lasting scent of gain flings tand the alzheimersf association is going to make it happen. But we wont get there without you. Visit alz. Org to join the fight. Keeping the power lines clear,my job to protect public safety, while also protecting the environment. The Natural World is a beautiful thing, the work that we do helps us protect it. Public education is definitely a big part of our job, to teach our customers about the best type of trees to plant around the power lines. We want to keep the power on for our customers. We want to keep our community safe. This is our community, this is where we live. We need to make sure that we have a beautiful place for our children to live. Together, were building a better california. Let me finish tonight with something that needs being said about the American Hero we lost yesterday. John glenn proved his patriotism years before and many, many times before he circled the planet and brought america strongly back into the space race. As a Fighter Pilot in world war ii, he flew 59 missions according to todays Washington Post and in the korean war flew 90 missions returning from one battle with 200 holes in his plane. Here he is speaking to me in 2005 about his combat experience. When you go into this, you dont go into it separately as one person. You go into it as a unit and you fight as a unit. Youre responsible for the people with you whether youre on the ground or in the air and thats just the way it work. Marine training is absolutely the best in the world, and you just stick with that training when you get into combat. And that was ed mcmahon with him in that picture. If it werent enough he set the transcontinental speed record flying coast to coast in less than 3 1 2 hours. In an interview i did with colonel glenn early this year he spoke about his role as the First American to orbit the globe. We were sort of at a low ebb in this country at this time and the soviets at ta time were claiming they were technically superior to the United States and they were using that to invite students into the soviet union by the thousands to get training and head back to their third world country. We were determined to overtake this. On the russian side they would claim their superiority. They had stuff going into orbit while we were still blowing up on the launchpad. Project mercury was mainly to catch up. Mine was the first to do the orbit for this country and that evened things out with the soviet union in some ways. We were completely open with our program where the soviets were completely secret. They didnt let the press in. And we had the press in by the thousands. I think the world responded favorably to that kind of treatment. Thats john glenn on why the world looked up to us in so many ways in february 1962. And thats hardball for now. Thanks for being with us. All in with chris hayes starts right now. Tonight on all in youre not forgotten anymore. The selfproclaimed champion of Blue Collar Workers taps another white collar banker for his cabinet. Believe me, nobodys forgotten. Senator jeff merkley joins me on the bait and switch and how the carrier deal keeps getting worse. Were going to make a 16 Million Investment in that factory in indianapolis to automate. What that ultimately means is there will be fewer jobs. Then hate in america. My interview with the nfl Football Player whose home was vandalized with racist slurs and the president elects name. Plus president obama orders a report on the alleged russian