0 wealth. and people are frustrated. and we appreciate that. >> have you looked out the window and seen the poverty driving through north philly, it's not all rich up there. >> it's not. but you get my point. there's a sense of the populism out there. but they have to channel it. and being against everybody is no way to govern. >> to you see nihilistic? >> i say nihilistic. >> let's talk about this. you have been writing for the president. he's looking out for the white house right now and sees the other party, they're not in disarray. the republicans are an organized group of people. but there's an unusual division going on where you can see across the mason-dixson line. the south is insurgent right now. >> i said this in my column. i think we have to be on the side of the moderates. i think the president wants to be working with john boehner, he has to make sure when he makes a deal with john boehner he's going to have some republicans come along with him. >> have you seen him do a good job of that? is he doing a good job of sitting down with john boehner in private and working? >> i think the two men get along well. >> how come every time something is said like i can't stand working with you, it leaks within hours? >> because that's washington. >> i might and in all due respect to john, i think the president would like to see the republicans go over the edge. and i think he eggs them on because he wants the democrats to take over control of the house and have the whole run of the thing in the last two years of his presidency. >> you think he's thinking that far ahead. >> i do. >> anyway, the republican party's conflicted about how much focus it should place on social issues. abortion, gay marriage, opposition to both. after the election the rnc put out an autopsy as we know. arguing it needs to be more welcoming and inexclusive on issues like marriage equality. but a new report out today from a social conservative group blame the party's losses last year on the fact that too many republicans called a truce on those issues. quote, we believe the conventional explanation emerging from the rnc's autopsy report get the core issues wrong. social issues especially the life issues do not hurt gop candidates. they help them win elections. in other words, business leaders not regular people who have to get a job. you agree with that? which is right? >> there was a lot of good stuff in that report. >> the new report. >> the new report. we are the pro-life party. i think in economics we can't be the boss party. we've got to be the worker party. there's a lot more worker bees than boss. >> so you're with rick santorum. >> i think -- >> that's the rick santorum argument. >> there is an economic populism and we have to understand it and come up with philosophies that's not just let the rich be richer. that we have to understand that there is a place for helping people. and i think santorum rwas right on that. >> they'll say on fiscal issues i'm conservative. you're saying the real angle is looking out for the working class guy like santorum and being concerned on issues like abortion and same-sex marriage. where's the action? whe where's the emerging of the country? >> i agree with john. they're not going to run away from their position on -- >> how about other social issues? do they stick to their guns? >> i think they can't run away. i think they have to run away from candidates like todd akin talking about legitimate rape. on economic issues, there are legitimate concerns about income inequality and wage differential and job security. one of the things in the report, $5,000 scholarship. >> can the republicans win the election next time. forget the names. if they run on the platform of hostility to legal abortion, hostility to same-sex marriage. >> not national. >> you said they can't run away from positions. get it straight. do you believe they've got to keep it in their platform? >> it depends on the economic issue. >> no their platform. >> they're going to. >> you said they can't win if they keep it in. >> i think they can't run away from the issues. i think voters will decide. >> so it doesn't matter if they keep them. >> it doesn't matter. >> george bush won on that platform. the fact of the matter is you cannot run away on the pro-life thing but you also can't scare people. like cuccinelli on contraception. we have to have a thing -- and there's a -- >> you mean those what do you call them? unmarried women in northern virginia came to work might be scared off by someone who wants to outlaw birth control? >> you need to focus on the issue at hand. >> i'm teasing because of of absurdity. latourette of ohio is defending main street trying to take on the tea party and promote republican candidates next year. he said quote, hopefully we'll go into eight to ten races and beat the snot out of them. when you say they're going to knock the snot out of them, you're already pulling punches. we don't usually talk like that in speech writing. >> stay away from that. >> do you think that's going to work from your view? >> i hope for the sake of the country it works. because we can't afford to see what we did the last couple weeks. >> what you need to have are republicans who believe in governance. i don't believe having the big business sector coming in saying this is our candidate. but you need the candidates that believe in rational governance. these ron paul candidates, i like rand paul but ron paul is going through this libertarianism that is not republicanism. we need to find the candidates that can make the race. >> here's one guy that will be hard to take on the hard right. rob jezner. he's saying, quote, this conflict could be the new nor l normal. until we have a nominee in 2016, biel in the wilderness for awhile. i think he's senator, this guy. i don't know him, but he's a staff guy like we used to be. he says basically until the republican party goes head to head in their day of reckoning when they pick the candidate to run against hillary, that's when we'll know if it's a party of the hard right a la ted cruz or back to the center right. >> there is no single dominant strain of conservatism. it's all regional and based on your own beliefs. until there's a presidential candidates that sorts it all out, we're going to have this conflict. >> don't you fear that as a republican that you might go into the field in 2016 in election, you ought to be competitive in. because no party holds the white house more than eight years easily. it's always a struggle. and you find yourself with the middle taken away because hillary clinton has moved to the senator where she already sort of is on foreign policy. and you're stuck with a hard right candidate like rand paul or ted cruz. >> i think we're going to have a governor. i think it's going to be someone who has actually made hard decisions and can understand how this all works together. and i think -- >> is that walker you're talking about? >> i'm thinking john kasich. >> really? >> i like john kasich. >> i do too. >> this debate is not unhealthy. there is this shift in the country. >> here's another moderate republican, the former republican governor of pennsylvania addressed the log cabin republicans last night. he had a stark warning for his party. for many observers, the gop has become intolerant, judgmental, and self-righteous. perhaps worthy of the pilgrims in 1620. but hardly attractive qualities for hundreds of years later. is the democratic party lucky, fortunate in having as its opposite a party which is basically out-moded in terms of social issues? >> i think out-moded in social issues makes them lucky. but we're talking about the economic movement. >> the 47% thing. >> yeah. the 47% and the idea of job creators. >> look at mitt romney. that guy's face said i made money. and you'll never make as much. >> mitt romney was the richest candidate we've ever put forward in history. and rich people are actually very unpopular. so it was not good. >> that was odd for your party. the democratic party has always been the party of the very high, the roosevelts and kennedys and people like that. and your party -- that's your party. your party has been the middle. >> this is why i think john's right. that's why we lost. people didn't necessarily trust romney on social issues. the hard core conservatives didn't like romney. he was equivocal on abortion. >> how's the president doing? >> he's great. >> is he happy? >> he is. >> is he happy? >> he's realistic. >> what's the biggest thing he wants to do before leaving office? >> i think immigration reform. and bipartisan bill across the senate. >> will he get immigration reform through? >> i think there's a good chance. >> the less he talks about immigration reform, the better to get it passed. >> i think it's going to be a congressional fight and closely run. and they better be in mood to enforce. i'm not for another joke. we passed a law, we got to believe in it and be proud to enforce it. or don't put your name on it and don't vote for it. thank you. coming up, republicans in texas are shifting hard to the right to copy their new idol ted cruz. they're calling for impeachment, no direct elections of senators anymore. and even expulsion of blue states from the union. you can be sure cruz doesn't want what happens in texas to stay in texas. plus want to know why republicans are voting so hard to kill the affordable care act? they were wrong on social security, medicare, if they're wrong on the president's plan and it succeeds where are they going to be? and jay leno takes a shot at secretary sebelius. finally, let me finish how i got here from the peace corps. and this is "hardball," the place for politics. the most free research reports, customizable charts, powerful screening tools, and guaranteed 1-second trades. and at the center of it all is a surprisingly low price -- just $7.95. in fact, fidelity gives you lower trade commissions than schwab, td ameritrade, and etrade. i'm monica santiago of fidelity investments, and low fees and commissions are another reason serious investors are choosing fidelity. now get 200 free trades when you open an account. well, the plot thickens about the unnamed republican house leader that told president obama quote, i cannot even stand to look at you. "the huffington post" is reporting it was pete sessions. but the white house says it never happened. and the episode was a misunderstanding. the story first came to light when senator dick durbin of illinois cited a house leader who insulted the president at a white house meeting. "the huffington post" says now harry reid revealed it was sessions. the chairman of the rules committee in a private meeting last week with democratic senators. well, sessions denies having said it. wouldn't he? and the white house today released the statement today saying the president, the quote's not accurate and there was a miscommunication about that meeting. well, we'll see. as i said, the plot thickens. we'll be right back. baron of the build-out. you need a permit... to be this awesome. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. (aaron) purrrfect. 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