Transcripts For MSNBCW Dateline 20190819

Guard dogs are now selling for 5,000. Good. You may think you know the manson story but not like this. Hes a very evil sophisticated con man that knows exactly what hes doing. Its all play, isnt it . Keith morrison takes you inside the murders of manson. April 14th, 2016. A clear blustery day in the high desert outside los angeles. Inside the walls of the California Institution for women, a grayhaired 66yearold inmate appears before the parole board, as she has done many times before. But this time something remarkable. A clear blustery day in the high desert outside los angeles. Inside the walls of the California Institution for women, a grayhaired 66yearold inmate appears before the parole board, as she has done many times before. But this time something remarkable. A Parole Board Panel is recommending the release of former Charles Manson follower Leslie Van Houten. Leslie van houten, a name on the list forever linked with one of the most famous crimes and criminals of the 20th century, Charles Manson. You dont understand me, thats your trouble. Not my fault because you dont understand me. I dont understand you either the story of Charles Manson, his family and all the horror they wrought is buried in archives, memorialized in media long obsolete, and yet somehow it feels present. That hot summer night that caught the world utterly unprepared. When los angeles became suddenly a very scary place. It was august 9th, 1969, around 8 00 a. M. Officer jerry derosa was a young cop with the lapd working the day shift. The first call i got was to go out to ciela drive coming out as a drunk in a car. The officer cruised up the canyon and found the deadend street. A neighbor flagged him down. Suddenly the drunk in a car call became something else. He had told me that the maid came running back out, yelling blood and bodies. Derosa, all alone, nosed his squad car up a gated driveway. He could see right away things werent right. The telephone wires that had been cut were hanging over the gate. We go through the gate and theres a car parked in the driveway. In the car he found not a drunk but a body. He had been shot. I walked around the front of the location and there were two more bodies on the lawn. Then backup arrived and they went into the house and found a scene horrible in a way that would go down in history. There was a young woman. There were multiple stab wounds on her and then there was a thick rope that was wrapped around her neck. Something else, the young woman was pregnant, eight months pregnant and stabbed repeatedly. Next to her, a man with a bloody towel over his head. He had been shot at close range and also stabbed. It was a bloodbath. Had you ever seen such a thing before . No. It was horrendous. He could see down the hall out the back door, saw a guesthouse near a swimming pool. He and a second officer went to check it out. Inside, they found a young man alive. I thought, this guy knows something. 19yearold William Garretson said he was the caretaker. He told derosa, he knew nothing, had seen nothing and heard nothing. With all the screaming and gunshots and fighting. How could he not hear it . You would think so. I handcuffed him and walked him through the property. They walked past the bodies on the front lawn. He didnt seem shocked by it . No, not at all. He was the first and most likely suspect. Derosa took him to the station house to book him. Then the detectives arrived and the coroners and, of course, the press. Rolling . At 8 30 this morning. An employee came to work at 10050 cielo and found several bodies in the house. The lapd didnt share right away the awful details or that the phone wires had been cut so no one could call for help or that an American Flag had been draped over the couch or that someone had written in blood on the front door, one word, pig. Do you have any kind of apbs out, any suspects at all . No. The only person we have at this time is mr. Garretson, whom we are questioning. The lapd didnt know much or say much. Were the bodies badly mutilated . This, i would rather not discuss. Who would know that fear would spread so fast, choke what was left of innocence and choke us. The main thing is what no one knew was what started on cielo drive wasnt over. Coming up, there was still another big shock to come. The identities of the victims. My boyfriend called my mother and he had heard five people were dead and it was rumored to be the house of sharon tate. Downtherecare with cottonelle. 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Now im a director at a Security Software firm. Wow, youve been at it a long time. Thing is, i like working. What if my Retirement Plan is i dont want to retire . Then lets not create a Retirement Plan. Lets create a plan for whats next. I like that. Get a plan thats right for you. Td ameritrade. It was media frenzy 1969 style, recorded on 16 millimeter film. We have a weird homicide with two bodies inside and two bodies outside. Word of mouth had skewed the awful truth, by the time 16yearold debra tate heard it. My boyfriend called my mother and he had heard there was a fire in Benedict Canyon and five people were dead and it was rumored to be the house of sharon tate. Sharon tate, debras big sister. Claude, please stop it ive hated this. Go find yourself another girl. Sharon tates biggest film, valley of the dolls, was two years behind her. Now 26, she was known less for her acting than her beauty and style and her husband. Director Roman Polanski had recently shot to fame with rosemarys baby, in which a woman discovers she may be carrying the child of the devil. In real life, sharon tate and Roman Polanski were expecting, too. She was so excited, like a new mom to be, creating the nice home nest for the family, to welcome the new life. And now debra, frantic to learn what happened to her sister, pressed her panic stricken mother. Mother, what . What . Tell me what. She must have she was out of her mind crazy, grief like you could not imagine. But it was no mistake. The murders already gruesome, now took on the trappings of celebrity. This was at the home of movie director, Roman Polanski, and it was his wife, sharon tate, who was one of the victims. With sharon tate, 25yearold coffee heiress, abigail folger, she had been working with poor kids and it was her body officers saw on the front yard. Beside her was her boyfriend, 32, a sometime actor and old friend of romans. Inside the house, next to sharon, the man with the towel over his head was 35yearold jay sebring. Famous hair dresser to the stars who had been sharon tates boyfriend. Jeff guin wrote the 2013 book, manson. They remained friends. Sharon tate invited sebring over that evening. Jay sebrings nephew. One of the sad ironies was jay was not supposed to be there that night. He was supposed to be in las vegas and for whatever reason he decided to stay. The body in the car took longer to identify, turned out to be 19yearold steve parent who was visiting the propertys caretaker. Parent went out to his car at just the wrong moment and never got out of the driveway. L. A. Struggled to understand why would any kill all these people and why in such a sadistic manner . The lapd searched for clues in the surrounding brush, among the neighbors, as of course, the ever growing army of reporters. The lights werent on. Usually the gate light is on at least. Why would you take note of that . Its always been on. Strange, despite all the carnage, no real clues, though there was this one thing. It was revealed that a small amount of narcotics was found in the foreign sports car of sebring. Some pot and hash were found in the house, too. Now, press began to wonder could the murders have something to do with the lifestyles sharon and her fabulous friends lived . In mourning, in shock, director Roman Polanski found himself in front of a camera defending his dead wife. Sharon not only didnt use drugs, she didnt touch alcohol, she didnt smoke cigarettes. All sharon was thinking about was her baby, he added, their baby who died with her. A lot of blood all over the place. Baby clothes. Then another rumor hit the press, that the killings were somehow connected to polanskis horror movie, rosemarys baby. This time a representative spoke for polanski. Sharon and all other Three Friends were rational people with no interest in mysticism or any cult. The news liked to try to pin on sharon and her friends, you know, the drug, sex, rockn roll devil worshipping. Horrific, yes, all those ugly theories. There was this kind of gossip subtext that these people brought this on themselves. These were people engage ing drugs or some sort of orgy. Tragically, for the victims especially, that they were played off as a form of morality tale. Drugs, orgies . There was no stopping the gossip. If anyone believed it, what happened next made no sense at all. Coming up. Everybody in los angeles is petrified. Where are they going to strike next . Then, someone does. I felt there was an immediate connection. When dateline continues. Feel the clarity of nondrowsy claritin and relief from symptoms caused by over 200 indoor and outdoor allergens. Like those from buddy. Because stuffed animals are clearly no substitute for real ones. Feel the clarity. And live claritin clear. This is jamie. Youre going to be seeing a lot more of him now. Im not calling him dad. Oh, nno. Look, [sighs] i get it. Some new guy comes in helping your mom bundle and save with progressive, but hey, were all in this together. Right, champ . Im getting more nuggets. How about some carrots . You dont want to ruin your dinner. Youre not my dad thats fair. Overstepped. 3 days is really fast. Sensitivity, sensodyne rapid relief is a game changer. Its going to let the dentist offer their patient sensitivity relief in 3 days. Say over the course of a weekend youre going to start feeling significant results. Nearly 24 hours after this truly horrific crime with l. A. In deep shock, the police were baffled. Anything id tell you at this point would be mere speculation. And then it happened again. The bodies of a man and his wife, found in their home, both been stabbed to death, repeated stab wounds. Did you know the people in this home . God, ive known these people for 30 years. Whats their name . Labianca. Rosemary and leno, her husband. They found them tied, rosemary had large cord around her neck. Leno stabbed 26 times, rosemary, 41. Overkill would be an understatement. And again, just as it was at sharon tates house, the murder scene seemed almost art directed, to elicit fear. A fork was jammed into leno la biancas abdomen and was sticking there. Paint on one wall was death to pigs. And the refrigerator, helterskelter, like the song from the beatles album. On his body the words war had been carved in the chest. These are brutal killings. Elaine has written about the case for people magazine. In the middle of the night, showing up with knives, stabbing people multiple times, even when they were dead, things the police had never seen before. The killers seemed to have no conscience. They killed a husband and wife, took a shower in their home, calmly ate some food and left. Over two successive nights, seven people and an unborn baby had been ruthlessly slaughtered. L. A. Braced itself after the next wave especially after the initial suspect, William Garretson was released. Theres a crazed killer in los angeles and an immediate citywide panic. Even though it was a hot august, angelinans closed their doors and windows. Guns sell out and guard dogs going for 200 apiece are now selling for 5,000. Everybody in los angeles is petrified, where are they going to strike next. Hollywood was even scared. Its my understanding Roman Polanski started getting paranoid thinking it was someone among his peers. Warren beatty said it was like a Small Nuclear device had gone off in hollywood. People were really scared and they needed to make sense and try to make sure they were somehow insulated and not involved in this. People all over town knew it in their guts, the murders had to be related. I felt there was an immediate connection. So did everybody in my family. Why did you think there was a connection . Because of the writing on the wall. That was the main thing. Officer jerry derosa, who was working the tape crime scene, thought so, too. I had heard about some conditions at the location at the labianca house. I thought to myself, i wonder if this is connected in some way, writing the blood on the wall and the stabbing. Your mind went there pretty well right away . Yeah. But it did not seem that way to the brass at the lapd. The department assigned a team of detectives to investigate the tate murders and another team of detectives to labianca. The two teams worked out of the same squad room. The problem was they didnt work together. They didnt like each other, they didnt get along very well and they didnt Exchange Information for months. So each of those murders was pursued separately. Detectives acknowledged the crime scenes looked similar but the labianca were middle class folks who owned Grocery Stores and didnt hang out with movie stars and coffee heiresses. But they think it was the same crime. Police believe they may have used the same technique as to throw officers off the track. The media said, hey, these two crimes look similar. The police were quick to say, no, its copycat. What would one have to do with the other . It didnt make sense on the surface. The labianca cops looked at the usual . A workplace dispute, love triangle and a violent turn even as the tate cops looked for drug dealers. And both cases stayed open and it lingered in late 69 for weeks like the smog in l. A. Was there a time you thought this would never be solved early on . Yeah. It seemed to have gone on forever. Never find out. Never find out. Thats its own kind of hell. All the while, the cops failed to realize the killers were hiding in plain sight. All it would take was a chance encounter between two unlikely characters and an l. A. Jail to crack the case wide open. Coming up, a jailhouse chat with a killer. She proceeded on to tell me how sharon tate begged her, please dont kill me, please dont kill me. A dark obsession with the beetles. They really did listen to the white album over and over. A migfrom aimovig. To be there for the good. And not so good. For the mundane. The aweinspiring. The heartracing. The heartbreaking. Thats what life is all about. Showing up. Unless migraine steals your chance to say. I am here. We aim to change that. With aimovig. A preventive treatment for migraine in adults. One dose, once a month. Aimovig is proven to reduce the number of monthly migraine days. For some, that number can be cut in half or more. Dont take aimovig if youre allergic to it. Allergic reactions like rash or swelling can happen hours to days after use. Common side effects include injection site reactions and constipation. It doesnt matter what each day brings. So long as you can say. I am here. Aim to be there more. Talk to your doctor about aimovig. The no added hormones in land o frost premium sliced meats have moms buying in. In bulk. Boom what a beefsteak. Gotta love it. Land o frost premium. A slice above. Autumn of 69, it was still hot in l. A. But the Police Investigation of the grizzly Tate Labianca murders was ice cold. Not a lead, a clue or suspect in sight. Then in october, a woman widely known on the Hollywood Party circuit found herself in the jail. She knew people, once even dated frank sinatra. This wasnt her first fling with the law. I was there for a violation of probation. Thats where virginia was when she met a young woman who was not like the other inmates. She was very pretty, very friendly, always happy, singing, doing cartwheels in fact, up and down the aisle. The womans name was susan atkins. Virginia was intrigued. I casually asked her one day what she was there for. This is when she said, murder. Susan told virginia she had been accused of killing a guy out of the suburbs months earlier. But then she went on bragging that the cops didnt know a fraction of what she had really done. She said, you know those murders in Benedict Canyon. Of course, everyone knew about that. She said, you know who did it, dont you . I looked at her and said, no, i dont. Her words to me, well, youre looking at her. Just that casually, susan atkins confessed to the crime the whole nation was talking about, enthusiastically, described the killings in all their bloodcurdling detail. Sharon tate begged her, please dont kill me, please dont kill me, and she said she looked at her eyetoeye and said, bitch, i dont care if youre going to have a baby or not, im going to kill you. Then atkins told her she was part of a group and they killed lots more people, celebrities, like frank sinatra. The very fact there were going to be other murders of other people i could never ever be able to live with that. Virginia got through to the police and told the whole story. So now lapd detectives zeroed in on susan atkins and learned she belonged to a commune called the family. The leader was a short scruffy guy habitual criminal called manson. Charles manson. The cops, to their surprise, discovered manson and several of his followers were already in custody. Not for murder, but for car theft. Manson was a lifelong criminal who never could go more than a day or two of his free life without breaking some law. And the people with him young, mostly women, were barely more than half his age. Theyre easily influenced. They came from broken homes or they were bullied at school, they didnt fit in. And he was able to tap into all of that. Police began to interview these women. One was 18yearold barbara hoyt, who spoke about life inside the family and what attracted her to Charles Manson. He was very loving. He was very much a father figure. How did it make you feel when he was nice to you like that . Made me feel special. Felt like we were all fingers on one hand, like we were the digits and charlie was the hand. Police spoke with other manson women, too. And learned that in the fall of 67, manson moved to los angeles, where he sent his girls out to find someone, anyone who could make him a rock star. They encountered dennis wilson, of the beach boys who took manson to the beach boys studio, where he recorded this. Restless as the wind it never went anywhere. Manson didnt measure up as a singer songwriter. He and his family about 20 of them settled in the rugged foothills of l. A. A place called spahn ranch, a movie place for old westerns. One of the best places about the ranch was they would stay there and do chores. When they werent working they went dumpster diving for food and panhandle for money and sometimes stole cars. There was a lot of drugs and plenty of sex, all directed by manson. He told people who to sleep with, what to eat, where to, you know, do their bodily functions. Barbara hoyt told the detectives that charlie preached to his flock constantly. He would quote from the book of revelation. Which he knew pretty well. Not pretty well, were talking wordforword. Then detectives found out about charlies other source of inspiration. They really did listen to the white album over and over. The beatles double album released a few months before the murders. One song in particular captivated charlie. Helterskelter. Helterskelter lyrics the beatles said were inspired by an Amusement Park ride, harmless fun. But the people who heard them tell the cops, for him, helterskelter meant something apocalyptic. What in the world did a beetles song have to do with the brutal murders of the tate home in los angeles . It all made perfect sense to charlie manson. Coming up, mansons unshakable hold on his family. He dances, he sings, he looks beautiful, he looks happy, and this draws a lot of people. And the possible motive behind the murders. Charlie would be king of the world. Thats crazy talk. It wasnt to us. When dateline continues. Thanks to move free ultra i keep up with this little one. See the world with this guy. And hit the town with these girls. In a clinical study, 4 out of 5 users felt better joint comfort. Move free ultra. Movement keeps us connected. With this one little nexgard chew comes the confidence, youre doing whats right, to protect your dog from fleas and ticks for a full month. And its the only chew, fda approved to prevent infections that cause lyme disease. Nexgard. What one little chew can do. October 1969, after two months of false leads in the tate and labianca murders, suddenly there was news. Police apparently got their break in the tate case when this girl, susan atkins, a member of mansons family, was arrested in another los angeles murder and talked to a cellmate about the tate killings. That information led investigators and the media to a hippie cult called the family and their leader, Charles Manson. He dances, he sings, he looks beautiful. He looks happy and this draws a lot of people, just like people are drawn to little babies. They looked like all the other hippies hanging around l. A. Hippies up to this point were associated with peace, love, sharing. But prosecutor vincent interviewed them extensively and soon found out, he told us in 2008, these hippies were different, especially their leader, manson, excon and want to be rock star, obsessed with the book of revelation and the beatles. He thought they were prophets speaking to him and other tuned in people subliminally beneath the lyrics of their songs. In particular, that cut called helterskelter, mansons followers were well aware of the racial tension that flared up around the country including riots in l. A. And now he told them the song, helterskelter was the prophet of a race war between blacks and whites and armageddon manson spoke to his followers, both bizarre and deeply racist. There would be an all out war. During this war, he would lead his family into death valley, where there is a Bottomless Pit and city underneath the surface. They will go down there and be safe. When the war is over, the blacks will have won but they will not have the intellectual capacity to govern themselves. Then, charlie told him, the family would take over. In other words, charlie would be king of the world. But then again, manson was feeding them a steady diet of lsd. He was serious about this . Yeah. Thats crazy talk. It wasnt to us. The world was crazy to us. Investigators learned from mansons followers that he was not content to wait for helterskelter, he wanted to start it, by murdering wealthy white people, whom he called in homage to another beetle song, piggies. But manson didnt plan to kill the piggies himself, he wanted his socalled family to do that. By that point, they were willing to do anything for him. Because they loved him . Because they feared him . Because they were under his spell . What . They say that at that time they were brainwashed. It hardly seemed possible, yet as the prosecutor was able to piece it together, manson sent susan atkins, tex watson, Linda Kasabian and patricia to kill a group of friends tate did not even know and did know the producer who he tried and failed to get a record contract and knew the producer moved out. He now knew this. Whoever lived there now must be rich and famous. Nobody else could afford a house like that. The house is picked because of its location. Then manson sent the same group, plus Leslie Van Houten to the labianca home the following night. Seven savage murders allinone mans twisted fantasy. He knew exactly what he was doing. Hes evil, a very evil sophisticated con man but not insane at all. Susan atkins was the star witness at a grand jury and she revealed all the gruesome details how she and everyone slashed and shot everyone at the tate and labianca home and crawled in blood the words Charles Manson shot them. When Charles Mansons name was scribbled on the murder scene, that was the equivalent of his signature. Five members of a socalled religious cult, Charles Manson, a guru or high priest have been indicted along with six others. They brought Charles Manson in to los angeles, to the police station. Theyre expecting, my god, this must be some kind of monster. Instead of some big beast barely restrained, theres this little tiny guy with long hair. Are you sane . Sane . Its relevant. Now, the turbulent 60s came to a close and with the whole world watching, Charles Manson would go on trial. He was the mastermind. These murders would never have taken place had it not been for Charles Manson. If look back the case against charlie seems obvious, it was not then. Not for the prosecutor. Manson didnt personally commit the murders, no physical evidence to show he manipulated this group and turned them into what the prosecutor called blood thirsty robots. I had to bring them in by way of circumstantial evidence. The prosecutor decided to use helter skelter. It played well on the white album. But how would it play with a jury . Coming up, before o. J. , this was the trial of the century. Charlie always wanted to be famous and by god if this was how it was going to happen he was going to do it right . Its all a play, isnt it . Then, does one of the killers have a chance at freedom . Pay your lips some attention. The chapstick total hydration collection. Exfoliate nourish naturally enhance your lips. Chapstick. Put your lips first. The way you triumph over adversity. And live your lives. Thats why we redesigned humira. We wanted to make the experience better for you. 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All the elements are present for one of the most sensational murder trials in history. That summer, Charles Manson, life magazine cover boy and three of his followers went on trial for the tate murders. I think mr. Manson feels hes a product of our society. Prosecutor bugliosis task is daunting and a defendant like no others that the prosecutor had ever encountered. He had to prove that Charles Manson, this weird little guy, could have some control over these other followers to make them commit murder but not to the extent the followers were mentally incompetent to be tried either. Thats a tricky business. It is tricky. And the trickiest part is to get the murder to stick to manson himself. Its a little more difficult because he did not physically participated in these murders. Bugliosi had a two part problem, to show the control over his followers and the motive. That motive was helterskelter of blacks and whites. He was he that introduced helterskelter and talked about it all the time. He had a star witness lined up, susan atkins, the woman that confessed the whole story to a woman in jail. Now that you have had a chance to get it off your chest, would you tell me how you feel . Then atkins recanted and said she made up the whole thing. So bugliosi had other former family members. Like barbara who left the family. I decided could live with this when i became old . That would be a deciding factor. Barbara knew she would take the stand in full view of her former manson followers. What was it like to testify, seeing them out there . They were really kissing up to me when i was in the back of the courtroom, blowing me kisses and smiling at me and all that. Of course that changed when i started opening my mouth on the witness stand. Day after day, members of the manson family demonstrated at the courthouse, Performance Art with a sinister gloss. The system wants destruction. Thats what its going to get. Inside, charlies codefendants, Leslie Van Houten, Patricia Krenwinkel and susan atkins played to the cameras. It was a circus of weird. Manson in the center ring. Are you guilty of plotting any murders . I killed a chicken once. You guilty of these . No. Youre absolutely innocent of committing murder or telling any to commit murder or planning it . Ill plead guilty to the indians. One day manson appeared with an x scratched on his forehead and the others followed suit. It was theater. Charlie always wanted to be famous and he was going to do it right. How are you doing this morning, charlie . Sharons little sister seethed as she watched the antics on tv. They were mocking our very foundation. Everyone seemed to have an opinion, even the president of the United States. Heres man who is guilty directly or indirectly of eight murders without reason. Next day headline l. A. Times, manson guilty nixon declares, threw the trial into a turmoil. All the while, manson basked in the media talking to any anywhere. The judge questioned my sanity. I question his. At the end of the 22 week trial, bugliosi told the jurors Charles Mansons family preached love and literally practiced coldblooded murder. They literally slaughtered the victims in an orgy of murder. The verdict came after nine days of deliberations. The jury found all four defendants guilty of first degree murder. In my verdict, i wanted to protect society. After all, this is the United States of america and we have a heritage and this is something we must protect. They were all sentenced to death. Is he prepared to die . Has he talked to you about death . Hes already dead. Hes already dead. He has no thoughts, he has no opinions. Hes just an empty hole, hes infinite. Tex watson, who did most of the actual killing, was convicted and sentenced to die in a separate trial. But in 1972, the California Supreme Court ruled the Death Penalty unconstitutional. The sentences were reduced to life in prison. There would be no gas chamber for any of the manson family. Which meant that all of them, even Charles Manson himself, would have a chance at freedom after serving their sentences. Over the last four decade, manson, tex watson, Patricia Krenwinkel and susan atkins all had parole hearings and each time they were denied. In 2009, atkins died in prison. But Leslie Van Houten does have a chance at freedom. It doesnt matter whether i wielded the fatal blows or not, i feel responsible for both of their deaths. Two months ago the parole board recommended releasing van houten. But she is still waiting. The final decision is up to governor jerry brown. No question what sharon tates younger sister, debra briefs, believes, the governor should say no. I dont think she deserves it. These people were brutally butchered. There has to be some kind of accountability in this world. Convincing the jury of this very esoteric sophisticated murder of Charles Manson prosecutor bugliosi died in 2015. Helterskelter led to mansons enduring legend. Why do you need to call me a murderer . I never killed anyone. Charlie manson is a man of 82, a symbol of evil. He will remain behind bars, whats left of his life there admitting to no regret or remorse. Remorse for what . You people have done everything in the world to me. Doesnt that give me equal right . I can do anything i want to you people at any time i want to because thats what youve done to me. Nearly 50 years have passed since he orchestrated those but Charles Manson remains forever seared into the public conscienceness, evil personified, the man some say brought down the curtain on the 60s and the age of innocence, who ultimately in his own twisted way, finally gained the fame he had been seeking all along. President trump and his aides are pushing back against recession fears after a volatile week on wall street. The president is offering up an optimistic outlook for the economy. New polling shows the majority of americans support certain gun control measures like suspended background checks. The president put the focus on mental health. More protests expected in hong kong after hundreds of thousands of demonstrators braved heavy rain to rally peacefully yesterday. Good morning, everyone, its monday, august 19th. Im Ayman Mohyeldin alongside yasmin vossoughian