Transcripts For MSNBCW AM Joy 20180505

Rudy knows its a witch hunt. He started yesterday. Ah hell get his facts straight. Hes a great guy. But what he does is he feels its a bad thing for our country and he happens to be right. Ill tell you this. I will tell you this. When rudy make the statement rudys great and he had just started and he wasnt totally familiar with everything. And rudy we love rudy. Hes a special guy. What he really understands, this is a witch hunt. Good morning and welcome to am joy. Donald trump declared it Small Business week and ended the week about a payoff to a porn star. Ten days into his new job as trumps attorney Rudy Giuliani made a surprising claim about Michael Cohens 130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels. That money was not campaign money. Sorry. Im giving you a fact now you dont know. Its not campaign money. No Campaign Finance violation. So they funneled it through the law firm . Funneled through a law firm and the president repaid it. Oh. I didnt know he did . Yep. No Campaign Finance law . Zero. He reimbursed. That directly contradicts the president s claim just weeks ago that he didnt know about the stormy payment. The next day giuliani went even further. However, imagine if that came out on october 15th, 2016, in the middle of the last debate with Hillary Clinton. To make it go away they made this cohen didnt even ask. Cohen he made it go away. He did his job. Okay. Over twitter on thursday, trump declibed the payments part of a retainer. By friday, trump was trying to turn back time. Were not changing any story. See excuse me. Excuse me. No, but you have to excuse me. You take a look at what i said. You go back and take a look. Youll see what i said. You said when i asked you excuse me. Take a look at what we said. Which is it . He deor did he not know his lawyer paid for a porns silence about the alleged affair . Citing two statements, he knew about the money for a few months before he denied it to the press in april. Looks Like National Small Business week was a hit. Joining me now maya wiley and danny savalis, Nick Ackerman and lisa blum. Lets start with the giulianis walked back and tried to correct the record on the things he said. The first part is theres no Campaign Violation. The payment was made to resolve a personal and false allegation in order to protect the president s family. It would have been done in any event whether he was a candidate or not. Saying it was personal. My reference is to timing not described in the understanding of the president s knowledge but instead my understanding of these matters. Okay. You worked with Rudy Giuliani as a u. S. Attorney here in new york. When you read his statements and then his counter statements, was he a good lawyer . What are we looking at bad lawyering . What is going on here . Whats going on here is chief lawyer is donald j. Trump. Hes taking the queues from donald trump. He is basically just an shill for donald trump and hes also taking on the entire rule of law and undermining our system of justice and attacking the fbi, attacking the u. S. Attorneys office. I mean, he actually referred to the fbi agents who executed a valid search warrant on the office of Michael Cohen as a bunch of storm troopers. Now, as part of that u. S. Attorney sort of alumni, this has raised Major Concerns of us communicating with each other over the last few days and helpful to read an email i got that i think really sums it up. And it says i wont name the person that did it. I havent talked to him about saying this on national tv but he said for those who regard the United States Attorneys Office in the southern dris ticket of new york of a model of Prosecutors Office should be, it was distressing to see the former leader of that office, rudolph giuliani, telling sean hannity that fbi agents acting under the supervision of that office, quote, storm troopers. Closed quote. Didnt he hire jim comey . Hired him. Never called him. Now calling him a pathological liar. If theres one thing to say about jim comey he is not a liar. He may have bad judgment and doesnt lie. Yeah. Also attacking Rod Rosenstein now for this fisa warpt whether the fact of the matter is that fisa parent initiated because of the Trump Campaigns own person who mouthed off to somebody in london over drinks about the fact he was aware that the russians had broken into the Democratic National committee and had hacked all of the emails. Theres a lot. Michael daly was on with me last night and giuliani is incredibly close to the fbi, New York Branch of the fbi and so much so that comey was having him investigated for whether he was getting advance knowledge of the clinton investigation from his friends in the fbi. Thats how close he is. I want to come to you on this because the information last night, the wall street journal a scoop and then the New York Times. Start with the wall street journal and this is now about the lines of credit. We knew that there was 130,000 loan taken against his house by Michael Cohen and now over 700,000 in loans between him and his wife. According to the journal, in february 2016 as mr. Trumps fortunes an a candidate rose mr. Cohen nearly doubled the amount to use on a Bank Credit Line on the manhattan apartment. Three months earlier gained potential access to another 529,000 through a new mortgage he and his wife cosigned on a condo owned by her parents in trump world tower. The New York Times added to that saying a person close to the organization said the people at the Company Aware he was doing legal work for the president in 2017. Another person said that the person was running the Trump Organization at the time didnt know it because donald trump apparently reimbursing and what giulianis trying to say, he takes out the personal lines of credit, 729,000 or so. Slush fund. Protect protect donald trump fund. Slush fund. He gets paid back in 35,000 a month increments for quote unquote legal work. Is any of that legal . Well, first of all, a lot of facts we have to get before we say whether or not its legal. Right. Certainly, certainly suggests that there is plenty reason to be concerned that there are very serious violations here. Both of federal election laws, obviously, because if there are if there are payments being made to protect the election of the president and remember that we also have wall street journal has reported that there are emails that suggest Michael Cohen complaining of not being repaid for the loans. Right. For this loan transaction for making the Stormy Daniels payment. Go away. Go away. That certainly suggests willfulness on the part of the president meaning theres knowledge and doesnt have to have knowledge of every single transaction because the reality is he can be charged with being part of the conspiracy. So if he set up a campaign slush fund with promises to Michael Cohen to repay the loan right. That puts him in a conspiracy. Yeah. Actually that would be a violation of federal danny, i also wonder if Michael Cohen goes to the bank twice and says i need 200,000 to remodel my kitchen and really wants it part of a slush fund and then he and his wife say we need 500,000 in the bathroom in the mansion or whatever. And then they use the money as part of a slush fund. In and of itself is that illegal . Money creates a trail. It has to wake up somewhere and end up somewhere and these transactions raise all kinds of problems not the least of which is marching into a bank or apply for a mortgage you put down certain statements and those statements have to be true so you have to wonder what is on that statement . Is it i need the loan to pay off adult film star . What do i need the loan for . Any of these transactions raise an entire new layer of regulation and i would add that when you call this a retainer, you add yet another layer, the rules of professional responsibility that apply to attorneys. If you really wanted to come out and just say, you know what this is . Not a slush fund. This is a gigantic petty cash account because when i need to buy highlighters, gio to petty cash. I dont need to tell the boss. Paying off adult film stars, i dont need to tell the boss. That would have been safer than calling it a retainer because once you call it a retainer there are so many rules and nick can talk about this, too. When we get a payment, we need to be care about a fat fee, going in the Client Trust Account and if it does, what is the paper work on that . Because one of the surest ways to discipline for attorneys is monkeying around or creating a gray area of the Client Trust Account, operating account and then a petty cash account, whatever that is. Meaning in that money that you have as a retainer some of it is the pay for you and some of it done for the client. You cant mix them . Well, the Client Trust Account and the operating account you mix those and then you get the tickets. Very quickly. Lets bring in lisa. The other sort of obvious place the mind goes knowing that its not just 130,000 hes taking out but more like 700,000 begs the question, well, was he paying off multiple people as alleged that there were quote hundreds of women to be taken care. I want to play for you michael avenatti. Take a listen. There were Extensive Communications between Michael Cohen and Keith Davidson in october of 2016 relating to the timing of this payment and the need for the payment to be made prior to the election. Extensive communications. Relating to the need for the payment to be made, when it was made and as it related to potential influence on the election. Period. So, lisa, we know that Keith Davidson was the attorney of Karen Mcdougall and Stormy Daniels. If you have the lawyer whos setting up the agreement with the women acting supposedly as the lawyer, the lawyer for donald trump operating with his own money to have this sort of slush fund to pay women off, even if donald trump isnt knowledgeable about the each individual payments, do you have the possibility of a conspiracy . Do you go to the does your mind go to the fact of how many other women were involved in the payoffs . Yes. Now up to 700,000 plus there have to be other women. Why would there be a slush fund . Attorneys dont get to have slush funds. Period. The end. I have a 14lawyer law firm. I have to review the finances every month and if a client give mess a bunch of money its very clearly accounted for. So why as Michael Cohen taking out home equity loans to protect donald trump . Only two explanations. Trying to hide the money doing something illegal. Number two, donald trump is actually broke just like my a Michelle Wolf said last week. I want to come the other point because the please stop helping category for Rudy Giuliani, he told the Washington Post that the repayments to cohen from trump took place over a period of time. Probably all paid back by the end of 2017. That and probably a few other situations that might be considered campaign expenses. So, hes given away a few things. Wanted to establish in this series of interviews that cohen was paid back an not look like an unreimbursed expense. Check. Now he himself is offering that these payments had to do with the campaign. Has he hurt his client . Totally. I mean, look at the overall picture herement its not just taking out little pieces here. You have an admission by all of them that they funneled money through a law firm using an llc that was set up with phony names just for the purpose of doing that with aliases under agreements with the president of the United States going under the name of David Dennison and the other part peggy something or other and theyre giving 130,000 just prior to the election. I mean, the whole thing wreaks of criminality. But, but the irony here is thats not what theyre really looking at cohen for. What theyre really looking at him for is russian investigation. Right. He is the pivotal guy on trump tower moscow. He is the person that went to prague to take over from manafort after manafort had to leave because of all of the information that came out on him. There is no i mean, theres this whole false story created that the whole search warrant relates to this whole business with Stormy Daniels. Right. I cant believe for a second that the department of justice would have ever approved search warrant based solely on that. This is russia. Right. That means that when the judge says youre just going after this guy because you want trump, thats kind of true. Right . It might be true but i really caution everybody to read too much into what a federal judge says from the bench. Many oral arguments have involved a lot of back and forth and remember, federal judges serve with life tenure. You can imagine how frank all of us would be if we had life tenure in our jobs. What he says at oral argue his honor will have a written opinion and often not nearly as dramatic as maybe the back and forth, colloquy, at oral argument and dont read too much into that. Two things. One, i think it was actually fairly astonishing that a sitting actual judge notwithstanding the fact life tenure to make such polite sized statements. The Washington Post is reporting Rudy Giuliani could be interviewed with his own issues but this question of whether or not any number of women who may come forward to say i, too, part of the slush fund and got some of that 700,000, should we be considering that a completely separate irssue as a Campaign Violation issue totally separate from the Mueller Probe writ large . Well, thats a good question. I mean, i think the issues are somewhat separate. Theyre all centered around lying by donald trump. There have to be more women. I encourage other women to come forward. Look at Stormy Daniels. She is very brave and Still Standing an doing just fine and people out there and theyre in fear but this is the time to come forward and i suspect there to be more payments and probably in october of 2016. Yeah. You would think if he took out 700,000 and spent 130,000, what happened to the rest . Maya, nick and danny are sticking around. Lisa, have a great rest of the sunday. Thank you. Up next, he hired him. Trump fired him. The saga of rudy and comey is next. The sun is shining so why binge in here, when you can do it out there. With this clever little app called audible. You can listen to the stories you love while doing the things you love, outside. Everyones doing it shes binging. Theyre binging. And. So is he. So put on your headphones, turn on audible and binge better. My time is thin, but so is my lawn. Now theres new scotts thick r lawn 3in1 solution. With a soil improver seed and fertilizer to feed now yard time is our time. This is a scotts yard. He fired comey because comey would not among other things say that he wasnt a target of the investigation. Hes entitled to that. Hillary clinton got that. And he couldnt get that. So he fired him and he said im free of this guy. I know james comey. I know the president. Sorry, jim. Youre a liar. A disgraceful liar. Wow. On wednesday, newly minted trump counsel Rudy Giuliani offered a rationale why former fbi director james comey was fired last may boiling down to comey failing to do trumps bidding only to walk back those comments friday in a statement saying, quote, it is undisputed that the president s dismissal of former director comey and inferior was within his power and confirmed the wisdom of the president s decision which was plainly the best interest of our nation. Back with me are my guests. Lets start with the contention that the comey firing was just within his power and in giulianis case and somehow comey was dishonest. Take ourselves back to may 9th, 2017. This is a reporter asking then press secretary sean spicer, remember spicy . About the comey firing. Take a listen. Seems so abrupt where james comey even found out about it by television. I think the president was given a recommendation by the Deputy Attorney general who the fbi director reports to. The attorney general concurred with that. That the fbi director lost the confidence to lead the fbi and the president took the recommendation and agreed with it. Not two days later, literally two days later on may 11th, this was donald trump explaining the firing to our own lester holt. What i did was i was going to fire comey. My decision. You had made the decision before they came in the room. I was going to fire comey. When i decided to just do it, i said to myself, i said, you know, this russia thing with trump and russia is a madeup story. Okay. Cant be both okay . First, spicer whos his spokesperson says, nope, nope, a pure recommendation of the attorney general Rod Rosenstein and then trump says, nah, i was going to do it anyway. He was in the clear. He was in the clear with the ags letter, with the rosensteins letter, with the conclusion that the Hillary Clinton email scandal was mishandled. He was in the clear and then he gives that interview which is completely devastating. And now, mueller wants to ask among the questions apparently leaked by trumps other lawyer jay sekulow and regarding the decision of firing mr. Comey. Were talking that the president said the Washington Post had 2,400 false or misleading statements, number one. Yeah. Secondly, remember there was the background around the discussions that happened in trumps request for the memo in the first place. Right. From Rod Rosenstein. And jeff sessions. And thirdly, the fact that trump himself had been making statements about how great it was, of course, and how inadequate the fbis investigation of Hillary Clintons emails to then turn around and say the problem is going after Hillary Clinton and the emails. Even if the memo had stood and not made the inconsistent statement the next day, he still would have had a problem in terms of obstruction of justice. Two issues really. The first one is consciousness of guilt and relates to why trying to stop the fbi investigation into mike flynn. Yeah. Its because mike flynn knows about the quid pro quo for sanctions in the campaign. Why is he doing this . Second part to the obstruction of justice which goes to trumps intent. Did he have corrupt intent . Thats nothing more than an intent to impede, obstruct or delay the investigation. We have got that right across the board here. Back to nixon. You can obstruct justice even if theres no underlying crime. No . Right. Correct. Absolutely. I mean, most of the people that wound up being convicted in the watergate trial didnt werent involved in the actual breakin. They were involved in the obstruction. So but here i think its really is going to be the underlying crime opposed to obstruction and the consciousness of guilt is going to be critical in proving that obstruction in terms of the underlying crime and why trump fired comey, why he asked comey to stop the investigation, why his admission to lester holt and the admission to the Russian Ambassador you take all of them. Look at them together. Put it altogether and you have a clear obstruction of justice. Reminder, obstruction of justice asking him to stop investigating Michael Flynn who he had to fire. Go to Rudy Giulianis other contention here about comey and leaks. Lets play that on fox. Comey should be prosecuted for leaking confidential fbi information. I have the indignity of having hired him for his first big job and embarrassed i hired him. Sorry, but, you know, Rudy Giulianis the guy that leaked patrick dorsmans record when this innocent man approached by an undercover cop and then shot. Waiting for a taxi. Security guard waiting for a taxi cab unarmed, shot by a Police Officer. Apparently accidentally. Just to you know, be clear. But nonetheless, giuliani actually went on the defensive for the Police Officer suggested this guy is no angel and leaked by the way, one of those records was for disorderly conduct, something that we already have social science tell us black people are disproportion at natalie charged with. And said he was not an altar boy and he was an altar boy. Refused the talk to black leaders, express any remorse or sensitivity to the family. The black Community Remembers Rudy Giuliani in new york and not favorably. Danny, this charge that comey is leaking, is it a crime to release your own memos, especially since when he was in the position the memos were classified and released them and wrote about them in the book. He created them at home personally. Right . Provided a copy to the bureau. Yeah. I think comeys has a very, very strong argument and in the book for not having leaked information. This is something that he created not wasnt a fbi 302. Wasnt what their standard memo is and as the director he is not going to be creating a lot of 302s. So this is not a typical fbi memorandum that we might see in a criminal discovery case. A memorandum at home and delivered a copy to other folks. Not like he took classified information and cherry picked it and put in it a memo. Thats nunes. Coming up, trump took the show on the road to the Nra Convention and it was something to behold. vo what if this didnt have to happen . I didnt see it. vo what if we could go back . What if our car. Could stop itself . In iihs frontend crash prevention testing, nobody beats the subaru impreza. Not toyota. Not honda. Not ford. The subaru impreza. More than a car, its a subaru. So, my portfolio did pretthats great. Year. But the market was up nearly twice as much. Thats a tough pill to swallow. Exactly. So i started trading. But with everything out there, how do you know what to buy . Well, i think my friend victor has just the thing for you. 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For the sales team, it and the warehouse crew. Give us the data we need. In one place, anywhere we need it. Help us do our jobs better. With domo we can run this place together. Well thats thats your job i guess. Because Antonio Villaraigosa millions got it done. Healthcare he defended womens healthcare, banned militarystyle assault weapons, banned workplace discrimination, and more. Antonio for governor. Only one candidate for governor when students were stuck in failing schools, led the fight to turn them around. As mayor of l. A. , Antonio Villaraigosa invested in classrooms and security. Graduation rates soared. Antonio for governor. As an nra meeting for annual convention in dallas, a former president of the organization is under scrutiny. This is sandra froman, served as president of thenra 2005 to 2007 and now an nra board member, also on the board for gun maker sturm ruger and xen and theyre threatening to boot her from the board unless the Company Agrees to support gun safety measures. That vote is expected to happen next week. And also under fire for stories like this. Mother jones reports she once helped a professor promoting the theory that africanamericans were genetically inferior to whites. She said that she worked as a secretary of shockly and not involved in the racist theories. Up next, donald trump trots out his campaigns greatest hits at the Nra Convention. You wouldnt accept an incomplete job from any one else. Why accept it from your allergy pills . Flonase relieves your worst symptoms including nasal congestion, which most pills dont. Flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. Most pills only block one. Flonase. Put our hands on our hearts for the pledge of allegiance and we all proudly stand for the national anthem. We proudly stand. Electoral college. Theres no way to do for me. There is no way to 270. They were right. But 306 was, right . IlLegal Immigration must end. Donald trump struck out the greatest hits before briefly talking about guns and the mass shooting in parkland, florida coming as Parkland Students still dealing with the loss of class mates prepare for prom tonight. Trump briefly flirted with a tougher stance with the nra after the shooting only to back pedal again. On friday he backed the plan to arm teachers while speaking to a crowd in a gun free zone. We strongly believe in allowing highly trained teachers to carry concealed weapons. Highly trained. 98 of mass public shootings have occurred in places where guns are banned. Just so you understand. Tragically as we have seen there is no sign more inviting to a mass killer than a sign that declares this school is a gun free zone. Come in and take us. All righty then. Joining me now is Senior Adviser of moveon. Org, junior alea eastman and sandra deutsch. Thank you all for being here. I have to come to you first. Today is, of course, senior prom. When i was a kid we called junior prom morp. I dont know if they have that at your school. No. You guys, this is a day that should be a happy day for students at parkland and it is, of course, a tough day remembering your friends but i wonder what you make of Donald Trumps change of heart. This was donald trump after a meeting with lawmakers and when he had a meeting with lawmakers at the white house to get tough with the nra. Take a listen. Just curious as to what you did in your bill in order to we didnt address it, mr. President. Youre afraid of the nra. They have great power over you people. They have less power over me. I dont need what do i need . As a student, how do you feel about Donald Trumps change of heart . Its nice but i would prefer if he would be a little tougher in actually stand with us and helping us rather than Say Something and not do the work after. Yeah. And did you expect after he talked so tough back then, back in february, did you expect were you surprised to see him go right back to the nras lean of arm the teachers, et cetera . No. Because he always says the same things over and over so i wasnt surprised. Yeah. Representative, ill ask you the same question. Theres a new nbc news the wall street journal poll showing First Time Since 1999 in polling the nra is underwater in terms of publics view of them. 37 view them positively. A lot of this is because of the msd students and determined advocacy and allies around the country. Do you think that those negative poll numbers, notwithstanding the fact standing and cheering donald trump in dallas, does that end up changing the way lawmakers behave toward the nra . Well, ultimately it will. I do believe that. But look at what the president did yesterday at the nra. That the hypocrisy of the president of the United States is stunning and it is infuriating. I sat a few seats down from the white house at the white house after the horrific shooting when he told my colleagues that theyre scared an petrified of the nra. He was right then but then he turned around and showed that he is every bit as afraid as they are and shouldnt be because so many people now realize, the majority of people understand, that the nra doesnt represent they dont represent active gun enthusiasts. They represent the Gun Companies. They represent the special interest corporations whose sole driving purpose generating more profits by the sale of guns and oppose every single common sense step. So many of which have the support of 60, 70 in the case of background checks 90 of the American People. They oppose all of them because all they stand for are the Gun Companies. People are on to the game. Theyre on to the distractions and the lies that come from the nra. Thats why the American People now understand that. We simply now need to push back hard against them so that my colleagues in the congress can understand, as well. Or understand that theyre going to lose elections because they stand with the Gun Companies instead of standing with every day americans who believe we should take action on gun safety. That brings me to the nra stands for a lot of money pouring into politics. 60 million on mitt romney. 30 million to help elect donald trump. Youve seen within their membership, you know, theres a story, i believe in Rolling Stone when smith wesson i think in 2001 tried to cooperate with the Clinton Administration and voluntarily do gun control measure it is attacks, they are about selling guns and not deterred from the message and the president with them. How to counter message against that . I think we follow the Parkland Students. They have done an excellent job on counter messaging on the nra and why theyre underwater right now. They have talked about because theyre victims themselves, and lost friends and loved ones, they have used social media in a clear way that and pushing elected officials both d and r and saying well be you when they turn 18 and donald trump two months ago hes calling insinuating republican senators cowards and here yesterday crawling on his knees literally and begging and trying to get their approval. Yeah. And it is i mean, it is typical donald trump. This is what he does. He is they have him in the pocket. Mike pence was there with him. Oh gosh. And then the arpaio thing. So much on him. So much, so much. Shannon, one of the things that the Parkland Students are doing thats different is theyre using economic targeting. I mentioned that back in 2000 you had people who were on the have more guns side targeting any company to dare cooperate in gun reform. Now you have a tweet from david hogg a Parkland Student and he said he tweeted this. Florida retirement system pension plan holds shares valued at 528,000 in American Outdoor brands known as smith wesson, manufacturer of the ar15, the company that make manages frs is eynews. What do you make of this tactic going to Pension Funds and trying to get them them divest . Its an important tactic and i think effective and broad all over the country. But, you know, that is something moms demand action is doing actually since we started. I mean, just six months into our organization we were able to get starbucks ceo schultz to come out on National Television to say guns are no longer welcome in our stores because people dont realize open carry is legal in 45 states so the bottom line is that it is up to companies to protect their customers when lawmakers arent protecting their constituents and they play a very Important Role in helping us to make the nra leaders agenda toxic and it should be. Every lawmaker, every business should be afraid to work with the nra on anything. And thats the goal going into the midterms to make sure that a a rating of the nra is a scarlet letter. Yeah. Speaking of companies and theyre sort of connection to the nra and dealing with them, the nra has a receipt of ellens restaurant in dallas telling people to avoid ellens saying this weeks proceeds from the restaurant donated to organizations of reasonable and effective gun regulations and the nra is like boycott ellens. I want students released a music video of the song shine written by two students of your school in response to the shooting and the proceeds go to the nonprofit shine msd so they provide healing through arts to support programs so lets play a little bit of that. But youre not going to knock us down well get back up again you may have hurt us but i promise well be stronger and were not going to let you in were putting up a fight note you may have brought the dark but together we will shine the light and whoa we will be Something Special shes got a great voice. You guys have been so creative in the ways and different ways that you guys have responded to the kri sis. Where do these ideas come from . A main group and different branchs . How are you coming up with this stuff . Everyone doing their own thing with their groups or alone and we come together and work on it together. Yeah. Well, its very smart. Representative deutsch, can this work on democrats . Democrats have been afraid of the nra and do you think thats changing . Yeah. When i came back to washington after the shooting, we refiled the assault weapons ban and first its more cosponsored than ever before and colleagues came up to me and tell me they had wavered in the past and before the polling that now shows that the majority of the clear majority of men people think that we need to get weapons and war off our streets and came up to me saying i wavered but this is the right thing to do. Joy, i just listening to that song highlights the incredible work that the students are doing. I cant help but think of the young woman who came up to me in the vigil that took place, the day after the shooting, who came up to me and described the most horrific scene she had seen and she said, congressman, you cant allow it to keep happening. You have to do something. I think that the i know that the overwhelming majority of my colleagues and the Democratic Caucus feel that way and there are republicans who understand that things are changing and that they have to act, as well. Yeah. We are out of time. Shannon, very quickly, do you see a sea change . You have been at this for a long time. Seeing a huge change. Just since parkland, four republican governors with a ratings of the nra have signed new, strong, gun reform legislation. We need every single american to vote on this issue. Thank you to the panel. God bless you and your fellow students. You guys are doing tremendous work. Ted and shannon, same to you, shannon. Thank you. Really appreciate it. Next hour, special Counsel Robert Mueller has so many questions for donald trump. Plus, the West Virginia senate race goes completely off the rails. More after the break. Oh. Hey mom. Now that we have your attention. Capri sun has four updated drinks. Now with only the good stuff. Do you know how to use those . Nope. Get those kids some capri sun nope. Anncr as you grow older, your brain naturally begins to change which may cause trouble with recall. Learning from him is great. When i can keep up anncr thankfully, prevagen helps your brain and improves memory. Dads got all the answers. Anncr prevagen is now the numberoneselling brain Health Supplement in drug stores nationwide. She outsmarts me every single time. Checkmate you wanna play again . Anncr prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. I could say in minnesota people will decide who they want to have represent them in minnesota, not so much based on whether how they feel about the president and more about whether they feel that the person they are electing, who i hope will be me, is listening to them. This week minnesota senator tina smith got a new challenger in the race for al frankens old senate seat, richard painter, frequent a. M. Joy guest and long time republican to announced he will be running a as democrat. Richard painter joins me now. Richard, we are familiar with you defending the Republican Party that you are a member of for 30 some odd years. Youve now left the party. Why . Well, ive defended the traditional values of the Republican Party which have eroded over several decades. The Republican Party is supposedly the party of small government, but wants to tell women whether or not to have an abortion. That makes no sense. The Republican Party under Teddy Roosevelt and Richard Nixon supported environmental protection, nixon founded they started the epa under nixon, now the Republican Party is backing scott pruitt in his effort to destroy the environment. The Republican Party used to respect fiscal responsibility and try to have balanced budgets, now theyre spending money like drunken sailors. Now of course we have a president who is a complete disaster who really wants to take our country to an authoritarian rule. If the Republican Party is going to back him and back these absurd policies that have nothing to do with the traditional values of the party, then millions of people are going to jump ship. Im only one of them. And in minnesota were going to focus not just on president trump, but on real issues. We have a multinational mining conglomerate, some of them tied to the russians that want to move into minnesota and pollute our Boundary Waters and one of those senator smith supports. I strongly oppose that. We need to protect our environment in minnesota. We also dont need any more pork barrel spending like the stadium deal where nfl owners soak up, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayer money. This should be spent on schools and roads and public projects. Most important, with he need money out of politics. Im not going to take any pac money. No pac money. Thats whats corrupting our government is all the outside money, pacs and the dirty you know, the dark money organizations and all of that. Right. Lets talk about this, its a very Democratic State for the purposes of elections like this. Amy klobuchar is running for reelection, tina smith, yourself, nick leonard who is running on the extra the tick side. Minnesota went democratic in the 92, 96, 2008 and 2012 elections and in all the midterms around them. If you look at Hillary Clinton she won minnesota by two points, barack obama won it by eight points. You have been a republican for a really long side so why should democrats elect somebody who is a long time republican and who has defended the core values of the other people. Well, i just spoke of the core values that were important to me and i dont think those are core values that democrats disagree with. The right of individuals to make their own decisions, including about abortion and protection of the environment, and fiscal responsibility. Those are the values that i defend. I do not defend some of the a lot of the policies of the more contemporary Republican Party and particularly of donald trump. I want this campaign to focus on the issues and once again, the Democratic Party is not going to endear itself to minnesota if it continues to support these Mining Operations that are coming into our state, want to mine copper and nickel, pollute the environment, they are on loan by foreign billionaires and we need to draw the line. How much of your run is about al franken and his being essentially forced out . Well, this election wouldnt be happening if he hadnt been forced out. Your own feelings about t youve been vocal on twitter opposing the fact that he was pushed to resign. How much of you reason something about that . Many minnesotans think there should have been an investigation and we should have found out the facts, but al franken decided to do what he did and now we have this election. Its unfortunate. We are going to have millions of dollars of outside super pac money coming into our state, once again i reject all of the pacs and super pacs, i dont want to have anything to do with them, but we are going to have a special election we didnt need to have. At least lets have a debate, i want to debate senator smith and senator housely the republican candidate and thats have a Fair Election so minnesota can choose another senator. Richard painter, friend of the show. We would love to have tina smith on the show, richard painter, thank you very much for your time. Thank you. Thank you very much. It is saturday, not sunday. So and senator, senator smith. More a. M. Joy after the break. Its saturday, not sunday. Kyle, we talked about this. Theres no monsters. But you said theyd be watching us all the time. No, no. No, honey, we meant that progressive would be protecting us 24 7. We just bundled home and auto and saved money. Thats nothing to be afraid of. But good night, kyle. [ switch clicks, door closes ] i told you i was just checking the wiring in here, kyle. Hes never like this. I think somethings going on at school. [ sighs ] hes not engaging. I and its also a story gmail aabout people and while we make more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget. That your business is our business the United States postal service. Priority you Olay Regenerist shatters the competition. Hydrating skin better than prestige creams costing over 100, 200, and even 400. For skin that looks younger than it should. Fact check this ad in good housekeeping. Olay regenerist. Ageless. Woman i stay active by staying in rhythm. And to keep up this pace, i drink boost optimum. Boost optimum with 5 in 1 advanced nutrition helps support muscle, energy, bone, normal immune function, and vision. Boost optimum. Be up for life. I would love to speak. I would love to. Nobody wants to speak more than me. In fact, against my lawyers because most lawyers say, never speak on anything. I would love to speak. Because weve done nothing wrong. If i thought it was fair, i would override my lawyers. Welcome back to a. M. Joy. This week dozens of the questions special Counsel Robert Mueller presumably wants to Ask Donald Trump were leaked to the New York Times. Meaning the white house has its own question to grapple with, will trump comply if mueller asks to interview him or not . As of friday trump insisted he was open to it. Remarks come as he is now being advised by former new york city mayor Rudy Giuliani who has warned trump against sitting down for a mueller interview answer as mueller considers using a subpoena to force trump to testify before his grand jury. Now, if team trump plans to fight a potential subpoena, that fight could take months and go all the way to the Supreme Court. Three president s have been subpoenaed in the past, Thomas Jefferson for documents, rich and nixon for tapes and bill clinton for testimony in a civil dispute. Jefferson partially complied with his subpoena and bill clintons was dismissed when he volunteered to testify in a Sexual Harassment lawsuit filed against him by paula jones. But as for nixon, he refused to comply for the subpoena with the subpoena until the Supreme Court in a unanimous decision forced him to obey. By releasing taped white house conversations, including the smoking gun tape about watergate that led to his resignation. So if mueller subpoenas trump and trump refuses, the Supreme Court could find itself deciding whether a sitting american president could be forced to cooperate in a criminal investigation involving his own conduct. Joining me now is john conison, maya wylie and matthew miller, justice and security analyst for msnbc. This is an all star panel. Joe, you are one of the very people i would want to talk to about this. In the clinton case you wrote the book the hunting of the president that talked about the lengthy get clinton kind of campaign, but in the end it was this civil deposition in which he was forced to do, right, by the court. Thats right. But we dont know whether or not that would apply in a criminal court, right . At the time was there any distinction being made that this is only unanimous because its a civil case where there is no criminal penalty . I think just the opposite, joy. The fact that it was a unanimous decision by the court that you could bring a civil case against a sitting president meant that if there were a criminal investigation by a sitting president , certainly you would be able to subpoena the president for that. Right. Not only that, but, you know, clinton was actually subpoenaed by ken star later in the Monica Lewinsky case. After resisting invitations to come in for several months, star finally dropped a subpoena on the white house and they negotiated his appearance. Yeah. They withdrew the subpoena after his appearance was negotiated because clintons lawyers knew that the court would rule that the president had to answer that subpoena in a criminal case. Maya, im going to read from the court filing in Clinton V Jones on may 27, 1997. It said, the president , like other officials is subject to the same laws that apply to all citizens. That no case had been found in which an official was granted immunity from suit for his unofficial acts. So can you square this for us . You can subpoena a president s documents, thats jefferson, you can subpoena a president s tapes, thats nixon, and you can subpoena his presence in a civil trial. What we dont know is whether all that means you can subpoena a sitting president when its a criminal case. It will be astounding to me if a president could argue that he is above the law when it comes to potential crimes when because of his executive privilege or because it would distract him from his job or any of the things that we heard, for instance, Rudy Giuliani saying in the hannity interview. Right. If he can be if he can be forced to either provide documents or be forced to testify in a civil case, theres simply no logical reason for distinguishing those, but there is no case directly on point, which is why we see so many people coming out of the woodwork saying over and over and over again, the president , executive privilege, this is kind of the Public Relations drum beat, this sort of trying to muddy the waters about the actual law. Right. But, i mean, the logical reason for them on the side of the trump side, jill i will come to you is in this case you are not talking about civil damages for a Sexual Harassment lawsuit, you are talking about potential crimes for which someone could in theory be jailed and you are talking about the president of the United States. One could see the partisan logic on the court to say its a little different. There is a court order this is july 24, 1974, you will be familiar with this from the courts opinion. The president s generalized assertion of privilege must yield to the demonstrated specific need for evidence in a pending criminal trial and the fundamental demands of due process of law in the Fair Administration of criminal justice. Now, lets quickly play 15 seconds of the tapes that they released that literally zeroed in on the obstruction, potential criminal case that nixon was facing. Telly, talking about your [ inaudible ]. Okay. So, jill, hes talking about blackmail an obstruction of justice. The court says he cannot withhold information that could potentially be relevant in a criminal trial. In your view having gone through the whole watergate thing could donald trump assert that he cannot be forced to testify before that grand jury because this involved potential crimes . The simple answer is no, he cannot avoid it. I think that all logic and all legal precedent say that he will have to comply. Whether his testimony is necessary is a different story. His intent has already been made quite clear in his public statements, in his tweets, in his interview with lester holt. So i dont think we need his evidence to go forward with any kind of obstruction case, and i think he will find it irresistible to want to testify for a couple of reasons. One, because he is arrogant and he thinks he can persuade the grand jury that hes innocent. He will go ahead because he believes that. And he doesnt know, though, what documents and what testimony mueller already has that will contradict him. So he will be stepping into dangerous territory if he lies. If he tells the truth, he may also be in dangerous territory because that may involve admitting things that he has previously denied, the same is true with the 130,000. Did he or didnt he know about it . He said he didnt, then he said he did, now hes walking that back. He cant do that in a grand jury. He will be pinned down in a grand jury. And, matthew, one thing that donald trump does know or at least his lawyers know is that there is a Justice Department finding that you cannot indict a sitting president , right . Right. In a sense the Justice Department has already pre decided that even if crimes are found by the mueller grand jury, they cant indict him, at least according to those findings. In that case, then, could the Justice Department essentially say there is no indictment on the table, so you have to go and testify . Yeah, that may be the Justice Departments argument and youve seen the president s lawyers out trying to make the argument for some time if you cant be indicted you cant be subpoenaed which is a little bit absurd. Im going to take the inn advisable step of disagreeing with something Jill Winebanks said. I dont think the president wants to testify, i dont think he is going to willingly testify, if he does it will be under compulsion. I think he is like the cowardly lion here, you hear bluster about how much he wants to do this but i bet he is terrified to come down and talk to bob mueller knowing the potential liability he has not just for making false statements but if he does tell the truth and has to talk about why he asked the fbi to back off of mike flynn, why he fired jim comey, maybe even some of his actions during the campaign, i think there is a great deal of criminal jeopardy for them. If he really wanted to the interview they would be already arranging it. They wouldnt be coming out making excuses publicly all the time. I dont know if bob mueller will eventually subpoena him or not but one thing i feel strongly about is that the president will never willingly sit down and cooperate. I want to let Jill Winebanks respond. We dont know whats in his head. Jill winebanks, i wonder if his lawyers should be vigorously fighting him going in and testifying to mueller. You made the case that either way he could be in legal jeopardy, whether he tells them the truth or not. I think his lawyers should not be advising him to do it. I dont think there is an option if there was a subpoena. He could claim the fifth amendment, he could claim executive privilege. The executive privilege will fail. I do not believe that there is any chance that that hasnt already been decided by the Supreme Court, that you have a fraud and crime exception, so that theres not going to be any chance that that will succeed. And i sort of agree with matt that theres he keeps saying, oh, i would do it if my lawyers wouldnt you know, or if mueller would be fair, if i could be sure of that. Right. Well, mueller is being fair. The subjects that he wants to ask about are well within his scope of authority and the questions that were drafted by his lawyer as possible questions he would have to answer are all very fair questions. So he is using excuses. I agree with matt on that. And he could if he wanted to, he ultimately makes the decision. I wonder just really quickly, maya, if there is a precedent that one shouldnt proceed with whether there is an indictment or a final report without an interview. That maybe mueller actually needs to interview him first. He doesnt need to interview him first, that really is a question that depends on the evidence that he has already amassed. Remember, these questions came before the raid on Michael Cohens office. Right. So theres also a lot of additional evidence, we dont know what that evidence says. Certainly any prosecutor would want to have the benefit of the interview for a couple of reasons, one, to assess credibility, although i think we already know from the Public Record trump has a very large credibility problem, but also that they want to be able to test some of what theyve heard and see what the other side of the story is going to be. And you would never want your client to be interviewed by a prosecutor without yourself going through all the documents, all of the evidence you think that prosecutor might have. Thats a lot of information to go through with a client. Theres no way you would want your client to do that. Matt, Rod Rosenstein has been put in a position here. He has said were not going to be bullied. Hes being bullied by the white house. Has donald trump in a sense worked himself into a position where the one person who really could throw a wrench into the Mueller Investigation absolutely is now his adversary and that would be Rod Rosenstein. Thats exactly right. I think everyone read those remarks as being pointed at the people in the house that have been criticizing Rod Rosenstein. I think he was directly sending a signal to the president of the United States who has publicly and privately been pushing the Justice Department to back off this investigation. Yeah. And, you know, i think rosenstein is making it pretty clear its not going to work. One other thing i want to say about this question of will he or wont he sit down, im sure his lawyers will advise him against sitting down but the American People didnt elect Donald Trumps lawyer president of the United States they elected donald trump president of the United States. If he wants to take the fifth amendment every american has the right to do that but we expect Something Different of federal employees. If i had refused to cooperate with a lawful investigation when i worked at the Justice Department, they can do that as a private citizen but theyre fired. They have to leave the federal government. We should not expect anything less. We shouldnt set a lower standard for the person who sits atop the government and is charged with the constitution with faithfully executing all laws. We are out of time, but, joe, lets say this goes to the Supreme Court, why should the American People expect a court, not the same makeup, but a course that did bush v. Gore, that seems to have been a partisan decision to choose the president the majority preferred. Why should we expect that this court would not simply protect donald trump regardless of precedent . Well, this he swore an oath. They swore an oath to uphold the constitution, joy. Thats what theyre supposed to do, whether theyre republicans or democrats. And its very clear that the constitution requires that the president be subjected to the same laws as the rest of us. So any Supreme Court justice who votes to quash a subpoena after, by the way, mueller has been entirely fair about this, he has conducted this the same way star did, which was to invite a negotiation about how the president would appear, so a justice who ruled in favor of trump under those circumstances to allow him to escape accountability for all of these alleged and suspected crimes would go down in history as somebody who had supported des poe tichl and violated their oath in the most egregious way. Sobering words from joe who will be back. Maya, jill. Jill, whats your pin . Its a constitution, so joe just made it extremely relevant to this discussion. So appropriate. Thank you very much. Thank you. My tie. Oh, the constitution is on the tie next. Remember joe arpaio, he may be coming to a u. S. Senate seat near you. True story. Dont go away. Nythingo. But ive got an idea sir. Get domo. Itll connect us to everything thats going on in the company. Get it for jean whos always cold. 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Citi was the only one that was able to ensure that this was done seamlessly. And today, at the touch of a button, all the farmers are able to get their money, Pay School Fees and improve their standard of living. With citi, we see a Bright Future for our farmers and their families. Sure. Mom,whats up son . Alk . I cant be your it guy anymore. What . You guys have xfinity. You can do this. Whats a good wifi password, mom . You still have to visit us. I will. No. Make that the password you stillohave toovisit us. Thats a good one. [ chuckles ] download the xfinity my account app and set a password you can easily remember. One more way comcast is working to fit into your life, not the other way around. Walking through the door that we are also going to be joined today by another favorite, a great friend of this president , a tireless champion of strong borders and the rule of law who spent a lifetime in law enforcement. Sheriff joe arpaio. Im honored to have you here. In a move sure to please Donald Trumps most ardent supporters Vice President mike pence praised joe arpaio. The former arizona sheriff known for his departments relentless persecution and profiling of people who appeared to be latino. Arpaio became the recipient of trumps first president ial pardon after being convicted of criminal contempt in 2016. He is currently running for a u. S. Senate seat in arizona. Of course he is. Joining me now to discuss maria kumar and maria elena. Thank you both for being here. I just want to remind people of what sheriff arpaio was actually charged with and convicted of criminal contempt of court for dis i obeying a 2011 court order to stop racially profiling latinos in his Maricopa County office. What does it say to you that he was, a, Donald Trumps first pardon and that, b, mike pence is now praising him on the campaign trail . Its really unconscionable. Were talking about mike pence just talked about him having an upstanding and supporting the rule of law when, in fact, its the complete opposite. The fact that you have a sheriff that is supposed to be enforcing the rule of law being found in criminal contempt for engaging in racial profiling, basically arresting people without any reasonable suspicion of them committing a crime except for the soul purpose of detaining people who looked brown or black, who looked in his mind to be undocumented. You have now donald trump not just supporting and pardoning joe arpaio but acting like him. Nbc news reporting that the Trump Administration is not going to build shelters at the border for migrants who are seeking asylum. They want them to wait and they want the American Public to see how many people are trying to exploit the loophole in the asylum system. Its a different strategy from years past according to a republican congressman aide. Literally leaving them out in the sun. So when you say that hes following the playbook of joe arpaio, lets not forget that joe arpaio did exactly that, he had what they called tent cities that was likened to concentration camps by joe arpaio himself. So when he said that he was done for criminal contempt, that he was actually found to be guilty of racial profiling, that was the least of his i have his errors. Whats very sad that this idea that donald trump is going to force individuals that are already fleeing violence, theyre fleeing unusual circumstances and leaving them out in the cold, thats not what america is about. We have a nation of laws, so legally these individuals once they get into a port of entry they are allowed by law to seek asylum. We should be providing them shelter, providing them recognizing their hardship and recognizing at the end of the day these are the values we claim to tout as americans and we really want to make sure when these individuals get here that they are processed properly. The majority of these individuals right now in the caravan that many people are talking about they are disproportionately children and mothers. And we should note that u. S. Officials are going to let them seek asylum despite what trump has said, the Washington Post reported that this week, they will be allowed to seek asylum. What the Trump Campaign is doing in response to that, rather than just say, okay, our own government has said theyre going to keep doing this, trump is now campaigning on this caravan, its become a campaign issue. I dont know if everybody can see that on the screen, but ive ordered the department of Homeland Security to stop all cap the caravan of Illegal Immigrants trying to cross our wide open border. He is president now. We need a strong impenetrable all caps wall. I want every liberal obstructionist senator to see the names of every patriot demanding we build the wall. Its actually become an issue hes whipping up his base on. Absolutely. This is part and parcel of this administration, the heat contribution, the exploitation of people who are coming here as maria said to seek safety, to seek freedom because they are fleeing persecution and they are afraid they will be killed. This isnt new. Central american mothers and children have been coming for the last few years. I had the honor and deep despair of interviewing some of these mothers and teenage girls myself. The genderbased violence in the northern triangle of Central America is of horrific epidemic levels and we are talking about every 16 hours in honduras a woman is killed. This is a president who is also looking at actually ending potentially Domestic Violence as one of the bases for which a Domestic Violence survivor could seek asylum in our country. I do believe the tps was also withdrawn for people from he will salvador or honduras maybe. Thats 57,000 people that have basically lived in this country for over 20 years that all of a sudden yesterday found out that they are no longer eligible, they are undocumented. And the trajectory of this administration by 2020 the president s directive are going to make close to half a Million People that were here documented undocumented overnight. So i think what we really need to do is start drilling down and recognizing who is benefiting, profiting out of these individuals that are once documented, legally here, all of a sudden becoming undocumented. That is the private detention system who literally a week after the president was elected they started rallying their stock prices because they were making a lot of money. Thats unconscionable. The other beneficiary may be republicans running for election and reelection. Donald trump is clearly intending to use the caravan and the immigration issue for politics. This was donald trump yesterday at the Nra Convention, which is supposed to be about guns, he veered into this conversation about immigration. Democrats and liberals in Congress Want to disarm law abiding americans, at the same time they are releasing dangerous criminal aliens, and savage gang members on to our streets. These countries send up their worst. Do you remember in my opening speech i got criticized for it. Remember . Well, guess what, they are not sending their finest. He is doubling down on mexicans sending their worst, sending the criminals. Characterizing everyone thats coming over the border as a dangerous criminal alien. I mean, unfortunately that electoral strategy can be very effective, you know. Yeah, this is the fear mongering that this president is so good at doing and exploiting and, in fact, what we have in this country right now is that the Republican Party has sent us their worst. The president of the United States who at this moment is basically attacking all of our communities and radically changing the direction of our country. I mean, as Maria Theresa was saying he is not only attacking undocumented im grants he is radically trying to change our Legal Immigration system, restricting family immigration. Over the next days, weeks, we are expecting yet another proposed rule from this administration that would basically radically change the way that families could be reunited, who is eligible for a green card, if a u. S. Citizen child receives any kind of state or local or federal public benefit, healthcare, et cetera, safety net programs, that could be used basically to separate them from their mother. Lastly, last word to you, Maria Theresa, you have seven states led by texas suing to end daca all together, we know these state gambits can be effective politics, it was done against obamacare. What do you make of that . Its another political employee and i think its going to be a rallying cry come the midterm elections not just for the la the know vote but also americans who recognize what is happening is unjust and unfair. Texas should bear caution because right now when you look at the polls for the very first time orourke a democrat is actually within shooting range of beating dted cruz. If you want to know what is rallying the base its basically unjust laws, discriminatory purposes of dividing americans and the American People are not going to take it. Thank you both. Coming up in the senate the senate race in West Virginia is getting all kinds of weird. More on that next. Wemost familiar companies,s but we make more than our name suggests. Were an organic tea company. A premium juice company. A Coconut Water company. Weve got drinks for long days. For birthdays. For turning over new leaves. And we make them for every moment in every corner of the country. 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You were going to bring props and we had to kind of take them away from you and you had these hats that said ditch mitch. You wanted to wear one of these hats and it was against the rules so we said no to that, but you have called the Senate Majority leader a host of different names, including most recently cocaine mitch. Yeah, thats a real thing. More on cocaine mitch after the break. Stay with us. baby crying dont juggle your home life and work life without it. And dont forget who youre really working for without it. Funding to help grow your business. Another way we have your back. The powerful backing of american express. Dont do business without it. The powerful backing of american express. A hilton getaway means you get more because. You get another day in paradise. Get a sunset on a sunday. Get more stories to share. Get more from your Summer Getaway with exclusive hilton offers. Book yours, only at hilton. Com is the fact that its very, very tough on bacteria, yet its very gentle on the denture itself. Polident consists of 4 powerful ingredients that Work Together to deep clean your denture in hard to reach places. Swamp captain Mitch Mcconnell has created millions of jobs for china people. While doing so mitch has gotten rich. In fact, his china family has given him tens of millions of dollars. Mitchs swamp people are now running false negative ads against me. They are also childishly calling me despicable and mentally ill. The war to drain the swamp and create jobs for West Virginia people has come. I will beat joe manchin and ditch cocaine mitch for the sake of the kids. After serving prison time for his role in a mine disaster that killed 29 people, if youre don blank ship you run for u. S. Senate and do it by attacking your own party leader by accusing of getting rich by helping his china family, a reference to elaine chow who is chinese american. That cocaine mitch is a time a coring goe ship owned by chows family was reportedly caught transporting 90 pounds of cocaine but there is no evidence of any connection between that incident and mcconnell for his wife. Mcconnell has refused to comment directly but his office pointed nbc to us to a comment by his former chief of state, quote, this unclown is a walking talking case for the study of the limitations of prisons ability to rehabilitate. He is a walking talking case study for prisons inability to rehabilitation. We always like to give cayden the challenging cases to talk about. Let me play the china person thing was weird and its one of those things where he could have maybe just misspoken and he just said it and it tumbled out wrong but he has doubled down on it. Ali vitali asked him about china person and here is what he said. The phrase china person, people are offended still. Well, they shouldnt be. I mean, im a West Virginia person, you are an nbc person. You know, in order to have a racist statement you have to mention a race or derogatory comment about a race. And then he tells roll call this is his quote to roll call where, were confused on our staff as to how it can be racist when there is no mention of a race. Theres no race. Races are negro, white caucasian, it sounds like double, hispanic, asian, theres no mention of a race, ive never used a race word. I dont understand this candidacy, cayden, i dont understand any of that. Why is he still viable . Hes viable because he has a lot of money. Yeah. This is a guy this is a guy who funded 40 candidates, republican candidates, trying to win state house seats in West Virginia. So its a little reminiscent of the alabama spectacle. What i will tell you is, i mean, wheth where the guy has made a tactical mistake is first getting in the race, second is Mitch Mcconnell who probably has 2 name id in the primary in West Virginia and second of all anybody that wants to punch Mitch Mcconnell in the gut is making a mistake. That guy is tactically smart, good at what he does and understands how to take somebody down out of a race the best he can. So i have all the respect for majority leader mcconnell and at the end of the day i looked at called into West Virginia yesterday, joy, and got a sense of the race and joe manchin has been in the state house, the state senate, has been the secretary of state, has been governor, most of those all won by double digits is one of the last of a dying breed of what i would call a moderate to conservative democrat in washington. So thinking that thats a race where we are going to spend a lot of money is probably not tactically smart. This is a guy that worries me if he decides to run on the democratic ticket for president. Thats how serious i take joe manchin. Cayden would know, he understands these races a lot. Its interesting to me, this is a poll from a few weeks ago that showed evan jenkins, a congressman from West Virginia and Patrick Morrissy who is the current attorney general is sort of neck and neck within the margin of error, four points apart and joe manchin behind. This might be cynical of me to ask this question but all the china person stuff and all that, despite the fact that he was he owned the mine where those 29 men died. Its awful. I dont know that im not convinced i hate to say this, but this gambit doesnt bring him up in the polls. Is that too cynical. I dont think thats cynical at all. I mean, we have donald trump, that tells you everything that you need to know. The reason why blank ship exists is because we have donald trump. Donald trump has changed the political spectrum on who can run and not run and in the folks that we thought could not run is not running. The reason why you have a roy moore, the reason why you have a trump is because of trumps comments and policies and what hes turned the Republican Party into. So now they feel really comfortable to come out, these racist bigoted people and be like, yeah, i want to run for the nomination for the gop because, look at donald trump. And one more thing. It is very difficult to make Mitch Mcconnell into a sympathetic figure and blankenship is clearly making that happen. That is insane. Hes going after the mans wife. Joe, and youve studied southern politics, you studied bill clinton, there are tactics that work, you know, whether we like it or not. Donald trump just doubled down today on mexicans and rapists and these countries are not sending their best. Its a limbic brain. And it kind of works. The other thing that works is it used to be clinton now its obama. Don blankenship put out an ad literally saying that president obama is who put him in prison. Lets take a listen. Did you know Don Blankenships trial is was not about the mine explosion. Really . Are you sure. Oh, yeah. The obama judge wouldnt each let don mention the explosion and the obama prosecutors knew don had nothing to do with the explosion. Obama prosecutors tried to put blankenship in jail for life. The obama team couldnt get one West Virginia juror to find don guilty of any of the felony charges, 36 votes for don, zero for baum. Put up this manifesto, its a pamphlet, 25 pages of Don Blankenship calling himself an american political prisoner. Basically he is a political prisoner. I dont i mean, it must work on some level because hes doing t right . Its really hard to know what to say about this, joy. Listen, the its absolutely correct that trump has lowered the bar for republican candidates so far in terms of the ability to express bigotry. What they say as well, we are politically incorrect, were speaking our minds. There is a reason why in this country we spent decades making it difficult for people to say the worst things they could possibly say about each other and making them pay a political price for that. The fact that now somebody like Don Blankenship a convicted criminal who was responsible for those mine deaths thinks that he can use an antiasian slur and that that will get him votes is a very bad thing. Go on, Maria Theresa. I think that he i know that he is a low energy trump but from just listening to the panel and witnessing what he just said not only about Chinese Americans but also what hes talking about our government and court institutions, he is actually really going in and taking a page from the trump playbook. He is talking about trade for these folks, hes talking about coal, talking about trade. And that is what people are hearing when they say when he hears china man theyre saying these are people that basically want to come in and take away my jobs. When he starts talking about obama and government and courts, he is feeding into the altright idea that you cant get a fair day in court, that all of a sudden our Court Systems are prosecuting systems are completely tainted we hen it cos to a fair trial. That is slippery but dangerous and there is a section of americans that are increasingly believing in that because they are in an echo chamber, a Media Echo Chamber where that is all theyre hearing and hes reinforcing that. The narrative that hes playing is actually something that we have to be very cautious about because were going to start seeing it more and more. I have to say i agree with that. I think that democrats who are highfiving and hoping that Don Blankenship is the nominee, while i agree with you, kate, i think that joe manchin is one of the strongest incumbents the democrats have in terms of he knows that state and he knows his voters and he knows how to win, but Don Blankenship in a sense, i mean, this is i want to play you a mash up of some voters and these are voters talking about Don Blankenship. One of them is related to one of the coal miners who died in that mine disaster for which blankenship ultimately wound up spending some jail time. One of the 29 coal miners that died in the explosion was my brother and im one of quite a few family members that support him. The other, the fake news that we dont support him, that is not true. Im definitely supporting Don Blankenship right now. Okay. One of the major reasons is his coal background, you know, this is coal country. He knows the coal industry. This state is coal. Explain this to us, please, cayden, because you have people, even people who are related to some of those miners who died in that tragic accident saying, do you know what, Don Blankenship is a coal man, thats all we care about. It makes sense to me. About when they are talking about i see the interview and your heart goes out to the lady whose brother died. If youve ever worked in West Virginia its a beautiful state, its coal driven, the economies especially in rural West Virginia are coal. And blank shenship is one of th largest Cole Companies and ceos and he has also been a tremendous supporter of the Republican Party in West Virginia so they know him. That in person he hadnt been on the ballot, youve got the attorney general who is pretty popular, youre going to come up against another guy who is 100 for coal, joe manchin. That will inoculate that. I understand some of that. Remember in republican primaries and democratic primaries 11 to 14 of the available voters is who is going to pick your nominees. That is a small universe and a low turn out season that were going to have because there is no president ial contest on the ballot. So anything can happen. But im going to lay my odds on the attorney general winning that primary. Im going to also lay odds on a lot of money between now and election day is going to be spent trying to help Don Blankenship win because that is another gift to the Democratic Party in november, but, again, im going to lay my odds the representative is well liked in his district so well see. Stranger things have happened, say, alabama, and there we go again. Strange things just keep happening. This he just keep happening. Make it stop. Joe, careen, maria, cayden, great panel, thank you very much. Up next, trumps former doctor finally admits what we all suspected. You wouldnt accept an incomplete job from any one else. Why accept it from your allergy pills . Flonase relieves your worst symptoms including nasal congestion, which most pills dont. Flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. Most pills only block one. Flonase. Anncr as you grow older, your brain naturally begins to change which may cause trouble with recall. Learning from him is great. When i can keep up anncr thankfully, prevagen helps your brain and improves memory. Dads got all the answers. Anncr prevagen is now the numberoneselling brain Health Supplement in drug stores nationwide. She outsmarts me every single time. Checkmate you wanna play again . Anncr prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. What exactly were they looking for . All of the medical records. Pictures anything i could find. They must have been here for 25 or 30 minutes. They created a lot of chaos. This week Donald Trumps personal physician harold borinstein Keith Schiller a trump employee along with another man stormed into his office and seized all of trumps medical records. You may remember borestein claiming trump would be the healthiest individual ever elected to the presidency. End quote. Now he admits what others have suspected . I also will tell you that let that showed up in the times, he wrote it himself. You know that . Yeah. He wrote it himself. Joining me now is dr. Corey aber. We call him dr. Common sense around these parts. Dr. , what do you make of this . Bornstein, bornstein admitting that donald trump dictated the medical sort of clearance letter that he released. Your thoughts . Well, joy, i hate to be this guy and say, america, i told you so, but guess what, i told you so. I mean, lets just start from the top. We know what trump did and bornstein did. It was unethical. It was morally reprehensible. It flies in the face of democracy. This is about two things deceit and hubris. And mental instability. What they basically did was allow someone to write their own medical record. Think about that, who does that, and then use superlative language like youre the healthiest person that ever delivered. We all knew that was donald trump. The fact that he put this albeit weird doctor, doctor, in that place, constitutes fraud it really does. It might just not been one doctor. Dr. Ronny jackson from the obama administration, they loved him. They thought he was great. Then he come out in january and talks about donald trump ace physical presence. Anyone who has followed over the decades knows he has about on session with great genes with his having great genes. This is dr. Ronny jackson in january. Some people have just great genes. I told the president that he got healthier over the last 20 years, he might live to 200 years old. I dont know. He has incredible genes. I just assume. Zblch what whats the code of ethics of doctors adopting the patient ace view of themselves, rather than the actual view . I mean, this is something that really could be brought up on charges through your state medical board. And this is the new york state board. You got to think about this. What i think trump and his group has done and what theyre trying to do is systematically degrade anything that could put a check on trumps power. And they wanted to grade that, any institution that has been impartial, they want to corrupt it to the core. Thats what theyve been doing. Johnny jackson, bornstein. And youve got this and now theyre stepping on my toes if you really want to think about this, too, theres really two issues. And im going to say it quickly. You want to think about the hipaa issues. We exchange with doctors all the rhyme. But it has to be in the right format. I have to get a form to clear a person and allow that form to go to another doctor. The form has to be right. Also, a new york state doctor has to keep a medical record in his office for six years after the patient leaves. So when they seized those records that means they took the originals, not the copies. Dr. Bornstein is actually in trouble. Once again, trumps friends may be in trouble as well. And lets list ten to dr. Bornstein. I wouldnt believe anybody was making a big deal about a drug to grow his hair which seemed so important. And its certainly not a breach of medical trust to tell somebody to take propecia to grow their hair. Whats the matter with that . Why would donald trump be upset about being known to take propecia . Well, a couple things there. First of all, you really cant tell anyone that someone else takes a medicine. That is unethical. So, thats wrong. Number two, propecia is to grow hair and benign prostate which is something that happened to old guyguys. You went someone to know that, he thinks hes 45, but hes not, in more ways than one. Dr. Corey hebert, i want to say thank you and guide bye. More am joy after this break. Have you smelled this new litter . No. Nobody has its unscented vo new tidy cats free clean unscented. Powerful odor control with activated charcoal. Free of dyes. Free of fragrances. Tidy cats free clean. When no scents makes sense. We use our phones the same way these days. So why do we pay to have a phone connected when were already paying for internet . Shouldnt it all just be one thing . Thats why Xfinity Mobile comes with your internet. You can get up to 5 lines of talk and text included at no extra cost. So all you pay for is data. Choose by the gig or unlimited. And see how you could save 400 or more a year. Xfinity mobile. Its a new kind of network designed to save you money. Click, call, or visit an xfinity store today. That is our show for today. Am joy will be back tomorrow at 10 00 a. M. Eastern. Up next, my friend alex witt has the latest. Happy cinco de mayo. We can be margaritas after the show. Good day, im alex witt. 9 00 a. 12 00 p. M. In the east, 9 00 a. M. In the west. And what did trump know about the payment to Stormy Daniels befo months before the denial . Did you know ab