Take a moment right now, just look at the scene in hour nations capitol. Americas capitol. This is what is happening. Military tanks rolling in. The kind of equipment you see in war zones to fight wars, to fight battles against enemies. Armed men around the city who will not say who they are with. They have been allowed, according to that one reporter, to say theyre with the federal government. These armed men, not saying who theyre with, who theyre accountable to. You have american soldiers in full combat gear lined up shoulder to shoulder on the Lincoln Memorial. How would we cover it if it happened in another country . Its been a thought experiment throughout the trump years. How would it look if it were happening somewhere else . The fanning of the flames, the claims of insane authority, the jokes about a third and fourth and fifth term. Right now we dont have to imagine what this incredibly perilous moment in American History looked like to another country, because other countries are watching. Here is what live coverage of the protests outside the white house looked like in australia. We just had to run a block. Weve been fired at by rubber bullets. My cameraman has been hit. Weve also had tear gassing here. This is exactly what it looks like. Exactly what it looks like. Whoa amelia, can you hear us . Amelia, are you okay . Or your cameraman . Hello, amelia. And the police just charged amelia and our 7 news cameraman there. They chased us down that street and firing these rubber bullets. Theyre using tear gas now. Theyre surrounded by the police, and you really saw the way they dealt with my cameraman, quite violent. And they do not care who theyre targeting at the moment. Footage once foreign and recognizable. That could have been one of our correspondents in a foreign capital amidst a Police Crackdown there. Its the kind of thing we, as americans, tell us is a scene that happens somewhere else. Not here. And that scene was bad enough from the past 24 hours, weve gotten more reporting and context about what happened that led to that. It is far, farce worse that it could have appeared at the moment. The president of the United States, or someone under his authority, ordered that Peaceful Protesters be cleared, which meant they were fired upon, they were punched and assaulted, and hit with pepper balls, spray. Also that donald trump had a pathetically awkward photoop holding a bible at st. Johns episcopal church. He even went so far as to tear gas the priest of that actual church, and the actual clergy that preside over that house of worship, and they were irate. Here is one priest caught in the middle of it, i am shaken, not so much by the taste of tear gas, but the fact the show of force was for a photo opportunity. The show of force, facilitated by the president s security forces, against peaceful citizens peacefully assembled, so the president could have a brief image of propaganda. Heres what the person running against President Trump said about his stunt at the church. When Peaceful Protesters dispersed in order for a president , a president from the doorstep of the peoples house, the white house, using tear gas and flash grenades, in order to stage a photoop, a photoop in one of the most Historic Churches in the country, or at least in washington, d. C. , we can be forgiven for believing the president is more interested in power than in principle. More interested in serving the passions of his base than the needs of the people in his care. The sheer authoritarian violation that took place is clear, even to these uncomfortable allies who pretended not to see any of it yesterday. They, of course, are not watching the news. And heres the thing, that was not even the worst of it. The United States is supposed to have a hard and fast line mean domestic Law Enforcement and the armed forces, right . The its a line from the founding of the country the way we think of our severalks not be trespassed, and yesterday we saw the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff in full fatigues, walking behind the president , surveying the scene as if hes a commanding general in a foreign theater. Today, senator Tammy Duckworth of illinois described the president s field trip. As he was walking there, he was followed behind him by the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff in military fatigues. And the secretary of defense, walking along like lap dogs behind a draft dodging, want to be tin pot dictator. Later last night this happened. The United States military la cota helicopter hovering 40 feet over Peaceful Protesters in a show of force. It was flying so law, the tree branches were snapping off as people were running for cover. This is a maneuver conducted in combat zones to scare away insurgents. And yesterday, it was conducted against americans exercising their First Amendment right by a president who is threatening to send the army to use its weapons against us. The American People, the people hes tasked to protecting. In the middle of a pandemic, that has already killed over 100 sth ,000 people in no small part due to his lack of leadership. American citizens are being intimidated by their own military helicopters. This is not how a democratic leader acts. This is how a bumbling autocrat acts. Joining me now is chris jansing, live in new york city where the second night of curfew went into effect just moments ago. What do you see there, chris . Reporter thats right. I dont know if you can see all of these police who are on bicycles. But theyve been yelling curfew in effect, curfew in effect. Some people were trying to signal them to go down another street. Well, maybe they know exactly where theyre going. So there was a crowd that had broken off from a large protest that i was with for about four hours today. Absolutely peaceful. People marching. But at one point it got very intense, because a group of the protesters surrounded some police, and were shouting take a knee, take a knee, take a knee, and they just stood there. Well, ultimately, one of the officers took the hand of one of the leaders and took a knee. Everybody cheered, but there was a lot of back and forth, and it probably went on for about half an hour to 40 minutes. So the point where we were wondering if the police were going to call for backup. They didnt, and ultimately, this group started to march. I would say about 20 minutes or so ago, some peoples phones went off. I live in new york city, my phone did not go off. I was told from other folks in the crowd the curfew was going in effect in 15 minutes. I stalked to other people who said, we ignored curfew last night. I dont know if you can see the group thats gone down that far. We broke off from them for security concerns. They were getting on top of these cars, jumping up and down. There was some intensity about it. So the decision was made that we would stay back there this group, which, again, had broken off from the main crowd. But its going to be now the question of how the Police Respond after last night, 700 arrests, 8,000 police on the ground. You know that back and forth between Governor Cuomo and mayor de blasio. The governor said you should have had the entire police force, 38,000 people out. But tonight, we have seen at least down here, an area where there was a lot of looting on sunday. We have seen no Police Presence until that line of police that you saw just telling people to please mind the curfew. Chris . All right. Chris jansing, thank you. Joining me now, msnbc correspondent Garrett Haake live in washington, d. C. , where curfew has been in effect for just over an hour. You were there last night, youre outside the white house. What is the scene there like . Reporter chris, this has been an allday peaceful protest. The numbers have been growing by the hour. I got here about 1 00 this afternoon. And in talking to protesters all day, i discovered a bit of a trend here. By doing what he did yesterday to clear protesters forcefully from this park, from making a scene of it, the president has galvanized parts of d. C. That didnt think this was their fight or their protest necessarily. I talked to quite a number of protesters who came out today for the very first time to show support for the rest of their city. They wanted to be out here at curfew to show that they werent going to get pushed around and taken off their street. You see all of that behind me. This crowd was much larger about 30 minutes ago, it broke off and said they were going to march to the capitol. Its loosely organized, it is peaceful, and they want to stay out. They want to prove a point. Protest is part of the culture here. And thats what were seeing all around us tonight here, chris. Looking at a little footage there to your right. I didnt know where that was from, but i did want to ask that was footage from monday. This is footage from monday when those park police pushed everybody back so the president could have that photoop at st. Johns there. There are all kinds of military vehicles that have driven through the streets. Theres armed forces posted at the Lincoln Memorial. What do you see in terms of the sort of authority that is showing in Lafayette Park right now . Who are the people there and from what divisions of our government are they . Reporter umm, the whole alphabet soup of the federal Law Enforcement is represented in some capacity. In the park, its been u. S. Park police, uniformed secret service, National Guard. Around the edges, from dhs, to customs and border patrol, to u. S. Marshals have been deployed in d. C. Driving home last night, the presence of the National Guard was particularly apparent with National Guard vehicles posted up at a lot of the intersections here. The full federal Law Enforcement mechanism, i guess, is available, to washington, d. C. And spread out in washington, d. C. And thats part of the struggle we have thats unique to washington, d. C. Where we also have our own perfectly capable city, who appear to be taking the lead tonight and how theyre choosing to handle these protests. Very interesting. Garrett haake, well check back in with you, if need be. Thank you very much. Im joined by colonel lawrence wilkerson, secretary of state to colin powell. I wonder from your eyes in your many years serving and in government, what you made of what the president did last night . Chris, i want to thank you first for letting me see the opening scenes and hear the opening commentary. If i were watching beijing in Tiananmen Square or watching nurnburg in hitlers time, i wouldnt have seen two different scenes except there was no killing yet. And i have to say that, colin powell and i used to talk about periodically, with some passion, was the Civil Military relationship in our country. And we both admitted that the 200 plus years of republican democracy that we have enjoyed has been assured largely because of that relationship. And now i see these scenes like you showed and like i have seen in the past 96 hours or so, and i see that relationship fraying and eroding in front of my eyes. And it really concerns me. Because we were right, it is the essence of our democracy. Its the reason were still here. And now i see it disappearing before my eyes. I want to ask about that lakota helicopter and the show of force, which to me, the park police were the agents that cleared Lafayette Park. But some set of orders were communicated down some kind of chain of command to have a u. S. Military helicopter fly low over a civilian population, assembled to protest as a show of force. Are you troubled by the fact that that chain of command, that set of orders, wherever they came from, ultimately succeeded in being carried out . I am. And im concerned because i know general miley, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, however he says that name, is not in the chain of command. He is an advisor to the secretary of defense and to the president and to the National Security council. He is not a member of the chain of command. Powell used to say, i dont even command my secretary here. And he was right. He didnt command a single soldier. So what is that guy doing . What is he doing stage crafting his appearance there in battle fatigues with the president of the United States . And who, question, who did order that . Was it the d. C. Guard commander . Was it the military district of washington commander . Who ordered that . And who told him to do that . If it was the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, hes out of order completely. If it was the military district of washington commander who decided to do that, under whose orders did he decide to do it . Under President Trumps . Under secretary espers . These are questions that are going to royal around for a long time. Its not like we havent done similar things before. Indeed, we had a segment of the country you may recall in 1861 that tried to destroy the United States of america and formed its own confederacy to do so. So we have had quote unquote american soldiers shooting at American People all over the country. This is not something we want to happen again. I thought we had pushed that dog away, and we were, in a sense, in a Civil Military relationship that was sack rrosanct. You have to point a finger, although i would admit it started majorly after 9 11 with my own administration, george w. Bushs administration, but it has been given an incredible, catalytic effect by this president. This president is something that i never thought i would see in the white house, despite lincolns prophecy that some day we would get the guy we deserved. You were, i believe, serving in the armed forces in 1992. During the actual invocation of the insurrection act which the legislation the president has threatened to invoke but had not, yet the strange legal limbo of that helicopter over d. C. Last night. During the rodney king protests and riots. What is your experience with that . What is your feeling about the last time that happened and what its effects were and what the debate was at the time about taking that step . Well, that was a tortured discussion in the pentagon, as you might imagine, when powell was the chairman and h. W. Bush was the president and cheney as the secretary of defense and all the lawyers trying to figure out what to do. We all knew it was a vague act, and although it had been enacted many times, and indeed amended, the last time in 1871, and ironically enough, in 1871, it was to help with battles against the klu klux klan. How ironic is that . But we had the request from the governor of california, and fortunately, nothing untoward happened that would have caused the real problem afterwards if someone wanted to sue, someone wanted to bring a case, someone wanted to spend time debating that law. Its not a very good law. Its not a very good law at all. Even though it has been used, it was used mostly during the beginning, jackson used it several times. But its not a very good law. And if youve got a democracy and that democracy is working towards a more perfect union, which is our intent and our constitutional preface, and indeed in the document itself, you want to get better, you dont want to get worse. You dont want your armed forces shooting americans. Colonel lawrence wilkerson, always great to hear your perspective on all this. Thank you for making a little bit of time with us tonight. Thanks for having me, chris. Chicago is a city thats seen tremendous amount of protests, its had a troubled history. A huge number of protests in recent days particularly, calling for an end to Police Brutality and justice for george floyd. Joining me now is the mayor of chicago, Lori Lightfoot. Mayor, let me ask you how your city is doing this evening . Well, i think we remain heart broken. Heart broken over what we saw in the loss of our brother, george floyd. The way which his life and future was taken from him and his family. I think we remain heart broken over our history of Police Violence in our city. But really, the core of it is, racial injustice. But i think we also are heart broken over what we have seen over the last couple of days with looters and criminal elements destroying our neighborhoods and stealing peoples lives and dreaming. But well a resilient city. Even as i toured neighborhoods that have been ravaged by looters and criminal enterprises, what i heard from shopkeepers and Business People universally is, mayor, we need to open our city, and we need to get back to work. Our employees need to get back to work. Our customers need to see us. And we need to feel like were taking our destiny into our own hands again. So were resilient here in chicago. When you talk about getting back to work, obviously were at the confluence of two seismic events, the Global Pandemic that has hit the country extremely hard, has particularly hit black and latino communities, indigenous communities particularly hard. Youre going to be loosening restrictions on wednesday as planned. And i wonder, what is the state i mean, one cannot help but think about this virus lurking in the background, as you look at the protesters, as you look at the groups of people and plolice officers, sometimes firing tear gas that affects the respiratory system and people close to each other, what this all means and the status of the pandemic in your city. Do you have your arms around it . Listen, i think we do. But a lot of it is going to be dependant upon what individual chicagoans do. We have got on the this point where we feel like we can cautiously reopen, and thats what were calling it, only because people have made the sacrifice over ten weeks while socially distancing, not coming out while theyre sick. But covid is not gone. It didnt disappear. And weve been talking about that every single day, even with the protesters to say look, youve been out, youve been close to folks. Even if youre wearing a face covering, you cannot fool yourself into thinking that you are immune from catching this deadly, ruthless virus. And so were telling people, if youve been out in the streets, for whatever reason, selfquarantine. Check in with yourself about how youre feeling. Because we are worried about a surge that comes ironically from people expressing their First Amendment rights. Were very much concerned about that. Obviously, we spoke about the president earlier in the program at the top, and i want to be clear, i want to talk about some specific things with chicago to you and be clear whats happening in america is not all about donald trump. That said, hes inescapable. And you had some strong words for the president. You said the words f and u. What has it meant to your city to see the president conduct himself the way he has, to see military vehicles on the streets of our Nations Capital tonight . Well, unfortunately, were kind of used to the bluster and the racism and the xenophobia. It doesnt make it any easier. Hes huffed and puffed many times before and his latestle is slow about the insurrection act. Hes said that before, that he was going to bring in the feds, whatever that meant. But we have to take that seriously. Im not certain he would follow through, but what i do know, i dont believe hes got the right to do it. What we will do if he tries to do it in a city like chicago and usurp the authority of the governor and mine as the mayor, we will see him in court. We will stop this from happening. This man, and why i made such strong words last week, hes fomenting, not just a vision, but fomenting violence. The president of the United States has just if there is looting, there will be shooting. Its hard for me to be astounded by anything that donald trump says after four plus years of hearing him. But that really made me angry. And it made me resolved to stand up and lift my voice. Im not going to take the bait every day as some do. But there are times when we cant be ssilent, when the president says something that is going to foment violence in our city, particularly as we feel like were on top of a tenderbox. So ill fight him. Final we for you, mayor. You and i first met, i was reporting on the aftermath of a young man shot and killed by cpd, and that murder was covered up by the administration, by the cpd. You were chair of an oversight word for the Chicago Police department. Youve been very critical. You were at a town hall back in 2017 on precisely this topic. Someone that the police union was willing to do from stop becoming the mayor of the city. And yet, i have seen complaints, ive heard complaints from people in chicago about Police Treatment in the last few nights that nothing has changed, the police have been aggressive towards protesters and provocative. So i guess the question, if someone like Lori Lightfoot can be elected mayor of chicago against the opposition of the cpd, and people on the ground feel that the cpds behavior hasnt changed, what hope is there for genuine change and reform . Let me push back on the assumption. I was witnessing firsthand realtime what our officers were facing. And im not going to say we were perfect, and there were people who did cross the line and they will absolutely be held accountable, because thats what i stand for. But i will say, in the face of supposedly Peaceful Protesters, and now let me just back up and say, the vast majority of people who have been out on our streets the last few days are exactly that, Peaceful Protesters. But theres an element that has embedded themselves amongst the protesters who came for a fight. They came with a claw hammer, a shovel, a bat, metal pipe, incendiary devices, tools to a peaceful protest. You dont bring bottles of urine and hurl those at the police. So yes, we have a long way to go on the journey to Police Reform and accountability, and im more committed now than ever. But our police have shown incredible restraint. They have not only been sworn at and had projectiles thrown at them, theyve been shot at and run over by cars. And they have shown restraint, even in the face of that kind of provocation. So its not perfect. Nothing ever will be. But i know that our Police Department has done its best under very difficult circumstances. And i support them. Chicago mayor Lori Lightfoot. Thank you so much, mayor, for taking some time for us tonight. My pleasure. And i know you care about our city. So thank you, chris. Tremendous amount. Still ahead, yet another night of protests in cities across the country. Our coverage of those and the president s failing and flailing response, thats next. Dear freshpet, tank was overweight and had no energy. Until freshpet. Put the puppy back in my dog. We all know customers can save big. [ cellphone chimes ] um, so, were talking 24 7 protection. As it [ cellphone chimes ] [ clears throat ] mara, hello. [ cellphone clicking ] yeah . We can see you on your phone. Oh, my bad. You can continue. [ clicking continues ] [ cellphone chimes ] i think shes still on the phone. [ cellphone chimes ] you say that customers maklets talk data. S. Only Xfinity Mobile lets you switch up your wireless data whenever. I accept 5g everybodys talking about it. How do i get it . Everyone gets 5g with our new data options at no extra cost. Thats good. Next item corner offices for everyone. Just have to make more corners in this building. Chad . Your wireless your rules. Only with Xfinity Mobile. Now thats simple easy awesome. Switch and save up to 400 a year on your wireless bill. Plus get 200 off a new Samsung Galaxy s20 ultra. The president seems to think he can win the reelection by reoning the nixon play book from 1968 when nixon campaigned on law and order against the backdrop of social unrest. Yesterday, against back grop of social unrest, trump ordered the tear gassing of Peaceful Protesters for a photoop. Today, he laid claim to the silent majority of americans, of course, another famous nixon phrase. But its worth reshing in 1968, rixon was the challenger. He was not the one overseeing the disorder, he was not the incumbent the way donald trump is. And more importantly, a lot has changed sense 1968. Right now, the public is not with this president. His Approval Rating continues to be terrible, 54 disapproval. The highest ever for a president at this point in his term. Voters think hes doing a terrible job handling the protest. Only 32 give him positive remarks. Theres widespread disapproval of his handling of the protest amongst women, noncollege educated white voters, voters over the age of 65. To pick just a few weeks. Even evangelicals, who are supposed to be a corner st eer f his base are basically split. Im joined now by assistant professor at harvard university. Omar, when this started, when the protest against the killing of george floyd started, and there were nights which fires were being sent and unrest, i had a lot of conversations with very nervous liberals invoking 68. There was a lot of fear that white backlash against these images, desire for law and order is a powerful force in american politics, particularly among certain parts of the electorate and this would be rocket fuel for the president. What do you think about that and worry about the come faparisons 1968 in this moment . I think there are some legitimate reasons to be concerned. We do see evidence in 68 that there are white moderates who both supported a candidate who backed civil rights and also defected to the Republican Party when they became concerned about order and were attracted to the law and order position. I think theres still voters like that out there. But we also have evidence of strong liberalizing trend, broadly on issues of racial equality, particularly among white liberals. And we see evidence that the media is being more thoughtful about how it represents these protests. And so i think that theres both reason to think there 345i may elements, particularly in how these images get presented, are protesters standing up for rights in a rights narrative, a rights frame. Or is it presented you know, this is not civil disobedience, in is a riot, this is a crime in more of a crime frame. So those underlying narratives drive Public Opinion and ultimately things like voting behavior. Its fascinating you say that, because the complex truth is theres a lot of things happening, right . I mean, there are people with hammers smashing store windows and taking things. Theyre doing that in midtown. They did it in the bronx yesterday. And i saw videos of store owners who are bereft at what happened last night. Theres a real true thing happens. There are also tens of thousands of nonviolent protesters standing up for someone who was killed by the state with no or little accountability. The complexity is what makes the moment so unattorney i think. What do you think . I think thats right. One other powerful difference between then and now is the role of cell phone video. I was thinking about the medias role. But in some ways, the first media in this entire sort of kind of chain of events is george floyd, you know, fighting for his life. His voice is in some ways the very first media we encounter. Then theres a second media, which is an active resistance to the status quo, of somebody shooting the video of him being killed. Those two media have had a very profound effect in a way weve never seen before. Other Police Organizations criticizing what they observed. People, prominent figures on the right criticizing this act. So those two acts of media, speaking up for himself, fighting for his life and that cell phone footage have shaped the debate in a way thats very different from 68. Yeah. One little data point, july 2016, when asked are police more likely to use Excessive Force against black america, 46 said yes. Its 57 now. Thank you for making time tonight, omar. Thank you for having me. Next, the president continues his march towards authoritarianism, where exactly are the republicans . Democratic leader Chuck Schumer, next. Thats why theres otezla. Otezla is not a cream. Its a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. With otezla, 75 clearer skin is achievable. Dont use if youre allergic to otezla. It may cause severe diarrhea, nausea or vomiting. Otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. Tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. Some people taking otezla reported weight loss. Your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. Upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. Tell your doctor about your medicines, and if youre pregnant or planning to be. Otezla. Show more of you. That gives me cash back onesome new aeverything. Akuten thats ebates. I get cash back on electronics, travel, clothes. 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Every day the quebecons, what would it take for republicans to draw a line with President Trump . And each day brings a new thing theyre willing to tolerate. Last night it was the president ordering the dispersal of american protesters, and an American Military helicopter menacing protesters. Today, ted cruz defended the president and others had to rush to get to lunch. Was it an abuse of power what we saw last night outside the white house . By the protesters, yes. It was dprgrateful to see President Trumps leadership. I think it was important for the president to go to the church of president s. Was that the right thing to do . I didnt really see it. I wasnt there, so i didnt see exactly what happened. Look, im not going to critique other peoples performances. No, Mitch Mcconnell doesnt like to critique other peoples performances. Hes famous for that. Today, republican senators in their own cowardly way announced through words or silence what they truly believe in. Here with me now, senator Chuck Schumer, democratic leader, who has been critical of the use of force against Peaceful Protesters. What do you make of what happened last night and the porting we had in the last 24 hours indicating it was william barr who ordered it . New reporting tonight indicating the president himself, not the department of defense, is responsible for the military vehicles that are driving through the streets of our Nations Capital right now. You know, it seems like it would be the president. You know, hes a fundamentally very weak man, who tries to show hes strong in ways that prove just how weak he is. Theres a report that he didnt like being taken down to the basement of the white house, so he had to show how strong he was. Well, to show youre strong by ordering rubber bullets and tear gas on families, including children, who are peacefully assembling their right to protest, who want to change america and make it for the better, thank god they do. And then to do what they did and then have helicopters overhead, to have the head of the joint chief s strutting around in military fatigues, that seems just like a dictatorship. You pointed it out, chris. What is even just as appalling is how our republican friends enable him. We had a simple resolution on the floor of the senate tonight that we thought everyone would go along with. It had three points. One, we applaud the right for a peaceful protest as a means to changing america. Two, we abhor violence. And three, we condemn the president for what he did. It is, in my opinion, it is certainly unconstitutional, violating rights of free speech. Its probably illegal. And Mitch Mcconnell came to the floor and blocked it. Why, why, why . Even in this most extreme instance, with just about anyone regardless of their idealogical blinders, can see what an awful act this is. How this is how unlike our democracy, how the president , in a time when america is crying for unity and bringing together, seems to take delight in ripping us further, and our republican friends cant make a peep about it . We didnt put any rhetoric in. We just stated the facts, just the facts. And they opposed it. And this is not this is not the you know, when Richard Nixon broke the law, republicans spoke out. Donald trump certainly did something unconstitutional. It may well have been illegal, as well. And we dont hear a peep out of them. They are just not doing their job in a democracy. And they are enabling trump to make things worse and worse and worse. We all know he has authoritarian instincts. The best check upon him would frankly be the whole Republican Senate caucusing dont do it. You did the wrong thing. Theyre afraid of donald trump. And that leads to donald trump getting worse and worse and worse. Its appalling. James m. Miller, on one of the boards at the pentagon, he was appointed to that position, he used to serve as undersecretary. He resigned tonight. I want to read you a little bit of his resignation, addressed to mark esper. President trumps actions monday night violated his oath to take care of the laws he faithfully executed, as well as the First Amendment of the right peaceably to assemble. You may not have been able to stop President Trump of direct thing use of force, but you could have opposed it. Instead, you visibly supported it. Anyone w secretary esper, you have served honorably for many years. You must have thought long and hard about where that line should be drawn. I must ask if last nights blatant violations do not cross the line for you, what will . And you know that question seems to hang over the whole government. Yeah. Our military, i mean, when you talk to them privately, many of them, they know that this man has autocratic instincts. They know what hes doing. They should tell him no, were not doing it. Let me tell you something, to have the head of the joint chiefs, to have what happened, hurts the military itself in the eyes of america. Because theyve always tried in the past to stay nonpolitical, nondemocrat, nonrepublican, not to be used by a president for a photo opportunity, clear the ground so he can do a photoop, hold the bible upside down, not go into the church, doesnt even say if its his bible. Its appalling. On the one hand, its childish. On the other hand, its destructive of our democracy. Here and the way the rest of the world looks at us. Donald trump just does more damage to this country every single day. Every single day. And the question you asked at the beginning of the show, when, oh when, are the people around him going to say no, enough i dont think thats forthcoming, senator, do you . Well, no, thats why we have to fight. And we have to we have to do a lot of things here. We need strong action to deal with Police Reform and racial justice. Ive put Kamala Harris and cory booker in charge of coming one a strong plan. And today, another thing we did, we asked Mitch Mcconnell, promise that in june, youll put this strong piece of legislation on the floor so we get action. So we get real action. I think the house will do something, were working in concert as is corey and kamela, and were going to keep pushing and pushing. And i hope your listeners will call every republican senator and say, especially if they live in states that have republican senators, how can you tolerate this . Youre not doing your job. Senator Chuck Schumer of the state of new york, and a resident of my current home borough brooklyn, thank you very much, senator. I appreciate it. Thanks. Dont go anywhere, lawyer Brian Stevenson joins me next. Aleve is proven stronger and longer on pain than tylenol. When pain happens, aleve it. All day strong. 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So ridiculous. With paycom, employees enter and manage their own data in a single, easy to use software. Visit paycom. Com, and schedule your demo today. In an unprecedented crisis. A more than 10 billion cut to Public Education couldnt be worse for our schools and kids. Laying off 57,000 educators, making class sizes bigger . Cmon. Schools must reopen safely with resources for protective equipment, sanitizing classrooms, and ensuring social distancing. Tell lawmakers and Governor Newsom dont cut our students future. Pass a state budget that protects our Public Schools. Civil rights lawyer author Brian Stevenson has understood centuries for presuming black men dangerous and guilty. Hes done extraordinary work to counter that pulse. Hes the founder of the organization that challenges convictions and racial injustice, fights to get people out of jail and the creator of the National Memorial for peace and justice which is dedicated to the victim of lynching and other forms of racial terror. Brian, its wonderful to have you. Ive been wanting to talk to you throughout this. I want to start tonight with an image that i would like you to respond to and reflect upon given how much youve spoken about this countrys history. This is at the Lincoln Memorial in the Nations Capital, the Lincoln Memorial, Abraham Lincoln who oversaw the bloody fight to end slavery in this nation, assassinated before reconstruction. And these are american soldiers there to protect that memorial from people that might come chant black lives matter. I wonder what you think when you see that . Well, its deeply disturbing, but its also evidence that we havent really reckoned with the history of our country. Im a product of brown versus board of education. I grew up in a community we couldnt go to Public Schools when i was born. There were no high schools with black kid when is my dad was a teenager. When racial integration came, many of us believed that this nation would change. None of us thought that 50 years la later, black people would still be menaced and targeted and marginalized. What i realized is that we have to reckon with this long history. And that image speaks to our failure to deal with the great equal that we are facing in america is this legacy created during slavery, this myth that black people are not as good as white people. To the enslaver who is justified slavery had to create a narrative to make that institution which was so barbaric acceptable. They said black people are less deserving. Black people are less human. Black people are less evolved, less worthy. That ideology of White Supremacy continued past 1865. Its why ive argued that slavery doesnt end in 1865, it just evolves. And Law Enforcement and these institutions of militarized power became the tools that sustain that. It was Law Enforcement that allowed black people to be ravaged and massacred and killed during reconstruction. White southerners overthrew governments because there was no protection. That ideology is greater than the constitution because the 14 amendment should have protected black and brown people, should have allowed black and brown people to vote. Throughout the first half of the 20th century, Law Enforcement stood back and allowed black people to be pulled out of jails and lynched on the Courthouse Lawn and terrorized and menaced until millions fled to the north and west where they were once again targeted and menaced by the police in cleveland and detroit and los angeles and oakland where they went to those communities as refugees. And in my lifetime, that narrative of hierarchy has persisted. So, even though ive been practicing law, have a degree from Harvard Law School and argued cases with the supreme court, i know places where i have to navigate this presumption of danger and guilt and i have to prove my worthfulness. Ive been in courtrooms where ive been told to leave because the presumption was i was the defendant. Ive been pulled out of the car and had the Police Officers point a gun at my head threatening to blow my brain out. I think what youre seeing now is the accumulation of the exhaustion and anger and fatigue. When you have to constantly navigate these presumptions, you have to constantly deal with this idea that youre not worthy of protection, you get tired. And people are tired, and thats whats being expressed. And that image just suggests how resistant our nation is to changing, to commitment to truth and justice. Thats why i have taken time from my legal career to start working on these cultural sites, building the memorial, building the museum. Its in part because i dont think we would win brown versus board of education today. I think we have retreated from equality where we are now seeing new manifestations of sustaining racial hierarchy in White Supremacy and that picture captures it. And what the Police Officers and our military has to confront is that those images are really damaging. I mean, it was the police who met black folks at the bridge who were literally on their knees praying and they bloodied and beat and battered them. It was the police that were the forces of opposition to racial integration in the 1950s and 60s. Its the police that have been a presence in black communities that has been so oppressive. Thats why to really change the problem we have, Police Officers and the military and others are going to have to recognize that we need a culture change. And thats what a lot of our work is about now. Well, let me ask you this in the two minutes we have left. You worked on this for so long and youve reckoned with the history. Lets say the protests were successful, or lets say that Brian Stevenson, through some remarkable act of magic was allowed to change it, was allowed to make things better. What does antiracist policing, equitable policing, equitable law and injustice in this country look like . Is that possible in your mind . It is possible. We would change the culture of policing. There would be data. We cant tell you how often police kill or hurt someone because theres no federal requirement for data to be collected. That would change things, so we would understand the nature of the problem. We would change the training. We train our Police Officers in this country like theyre soldiers. We teach them how to shoot and how to fight and how to arm themselves to combat Peaceful Protesters. Thats the wrong orientation. We dont need Police Officers who are soldiers. We need Police Officers who are guardians. We need Police Officers who see their obligation to protect and to serve, even the people who are suspected of crimes. We would create a different legal infrastructure. If i went out on the street, threw somebody down and put my knee on their neck and killed them, theres no question i would be arrested and charged with a crime. That kind of behavior has to be illegal. We would get rid of these immunities that block accountability. But beyond that, we would also engage in this process of truth and justice. What happened in south africa, what happened in rwanda, what happened in germany was critical to those countries taking a step away from the abuse of these human rights violations. We havent done that in this country, and that has to happen at the same time we change the culture of policing. Brian stevenson is author of the bestselling memoir just mercy, a story of justice and redemption. Its always a great honor to get to talk to you. Thank you so much for making time to talk to us tonight. Happy to be with you. That is all in for this evening. Good evening rachel. Good evening, chris. Thanks my friend. Much appreciated. Thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. It is 9 00 on the east coast and a mandatory curfew has been in effect for about one hour now in americas largest city. This is live in new york right now. There have been thousands of people in the streets of new york city all day today. Large crowds today in new york city peacefully protesting the Police Killing of george floyd in minneapolis. This is interesting, something you should see as a true marker of the dual
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