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Transcripts For MSNBCW All In With Chris Hayes 20191219 01:00:00

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Ever seen and one that once again will work with the president to get things done for you and your family, then join with us in rejecting this baseless impeachment. Thats whats wonderful about this system of ours. We are a government of, by and for the people. Always remember we work for you not the other way around. Now, i will say this stronger and with more conviction than i have ever said it before. In this time of great trial and tribulation may god bless america. I yield back. Gentleman from california is recognized. House will be in order. Gentleman from california. Madam speaker, i recognize myself for the remanlder inder time. Gentleman is recognized. Madam speaker, my colleagues, after 8 hours let us return to where we began with the articles themselves. Article i charges the president of the United States with abusing the power of his office by coercing an ally into cheating in a u. S. Election on his behalf. It charges the president of the United States it charges the the house will be in order. The gentleman has a right to be heard. It charges the president the gentleman shall suspend. Gentleman may resume. It charges the president of the United States with abusing his power by withholding official acts, by withholding a white house meeting that the president of ukraine desperately sought to establish the support of his most important benefactor, the United States. By Withholding Hundreds of millions of dollars of military aid to a nation at war in order to get that nation to intervene in our election by smearing his opponent. That is the gravamen of the charge in article i. And what is the defense from my colleagues . And ive listened carefully to my colleagues for the last 8 hours, and i have to say its been hard for me to follow. But it amounts, i think, when you cut through it all, when you cut through all the Sound And Fury signifying nothing, what it really amounts to is this, why should we care . Why should we care about what the president did to ukraine . Well, first of all, we should care about our allies. You should care about ukraine. We should care about a country struggling to be free in a democracy. We used to care about democracy. We used to care about our allies. We used to stand up to putin and russia. We used to. I know the party of Ronald Reagan used to. Of course its more than about ukraine. Its about us, our National Security. Their fight is our fight. Their defense is our defense. When russia remakes the map of europe for the First Time Since world war ii by dent of Military Force and ukraine fights back, it is our fight, too. And when the president sacrifices our interests, our National Security for his election, he is sacrificing our country for his personal gain. That is the gravamen of article i. Article ii article ii charges the president of the United States with obstructing the congress, with denying the congress any witness, any document, by telling all of his Administration People you will not appear, you will ignore a coequal branch of government. And what is the defense to this from my colleagues again . It is why should we care . He is the president of our party, why should we care if he ignores this congress . Well, i remind my friends that he will not be the last president. There will be another president , and you may be one day although you do not act like it, you may one day be in the majority. And you will want to hold a president accountable. And what will you say when that president says you are a paper tiger, you have no oversight, i can ignore your subpoenas . What will you say . What will you argue . Well, no, no, that was different . Then then we were in the minority, then it was a republican president. Will that be your argument . Is that how little faith you have in our democracy, in our constitution . Is that how poorly you defend and uphold that constitution . But finally let me ask you this question that overrides it all. Why should we care about any of this . And i shall bring you to one conversation that came to light because its not the most important conversation, but in many ways it is the most revealing. It took place on september 14th in ukraine when ambassador volker sat down with Andrey Yermak the top advisor to zelensky and he supported the rule of law. He said you, president , you should not investigate the last president , poroshenko for political reasons and you know what yermak said . You like you want us to do with the bidens and the clintons . And in that abrupt brutal retort we see why we should care because what he was saying is you, america, have forgotten what it means to uphold the rule of law. You have frauorgotten what it ms to say no one is above the law. We are a struggling democracy, but even we know better than that. What is at risk here what is at risk here is the very yooiidf america. That idea holds that we are a nation of laws, not of men. We are a nation that believes in a rule of law. When we say we uphold the constitution we are not talking about a piece of parchment. We are talking about a beautiful architecture in which ambition is set against ambition and in which no branch of government can dominate another. That is what it means to uphold the constitution. If you ignore it, if you say the president may refuse to comply, may refuse lawful process, may coerce an ally, may cheat in an election because hes the president of our party, you do not uphold our constitution. You do not uphold your oath of office. Well, i will tell you this. I will uphold mine. I will vote to impeach donald trump. I yield back. Our time for general debate has expired. Pursuant to house pursuant to House Resolution 767 the previous question is ordered on the resolution as amended. The question of adoption of the resolution as amenlded shaded s divided between the two articles. The question now occurs on article i. All in favor say aye. Opposed no. The ayes have it. Speaker madam speaker, i think the ayes and nays have a vote. The yays and nays are requested. As sufficient number having risen, the yays and nays are ordered. Members will record their votes by electronic device. This will be a 15minute vote. There you have it at 8 09 eastern time the History Making Vote on the impeachment of donald j. Trump is now under way in the House Of Representatives. Brian williams with you here in new york after more than eight hours of debate on the house floor, exceeding even more than the 6hour marathon we were anticipating and planning for all day now the vote on the first article of impeachment over abuse of power, it will be followed by a vote on the second article, which remember is obstruction of congress. Both are expected to pass along party lines, which means we are now likely moments away from this president becoming only the third in our history to be impeached. Nicolle wallace has been here in this studio all day long for this debate. Did you count any minds changed . What did you learn from today . You know whats so interesting is the moment in time which both sides were playing for. Nancy pelosi set the tone this morning by placing this moment in a frame of history, by going back to what the framers intended. She is known publicly and privately to be very reluctant about taking this vote right now. But she framed this and the democrats all day long laid out inconvenient truths, evidencebased arguments for impeaching donald trump, for doing what donald trump says he did which was to ask for investigations into burisma and a debunked Conspiracy Theory of 2016. The republicans on the other hand, they were playing for This Nano Second, for this political nano second. It is a known unknown What Happens Next election day. We didnt get 16 right. Its hard to predict what 2020 will bring. And the republicans spent the last, you know, ten hours or so playing it for This Nano Second in american politics. All of us would normally be tuning in to hear chris hayes as luck would have it is part of our family at this hour. I think what was most striking today is there were certain members of our caucuses respectively you see a lot on tv. These are people either chairs or ranking members of committees or like to go on television, that are on our shows. You got to see everyone today which is remarkable for or better or worst. Well, what it showed me is there was not just this difference in approach, this is what our president did, this is our moment in history as opposed to this pugilistic populism that we saw from the Republican Party but drove home this is trumps party. Not just in affect but in style. In per cecept of persecution, a of the sort of tropes of trumpism has been fully and totally transmuted into the Republican Party. And you saw it today from back bentures you never hear from, people who most americans outside their districts probably dont know and hear from. And you also saw it and this is so stark, and its stark every time we see this congress. And i was there in washington and sworn in. There are two coalitions in american life, theres two political coalitions and one coalition has 90 white men representing them on the floor of House Of Representatives, and the other coalition represents the entire diversity of the rest of the american electorate. And that feels like the core of the thing at some level. Even if you turn the sound off and you look at the television about what exactly has brought us to this moment and the fight thats happening between these two parties. Other members of our family here tonight eugene robinson, Claire Mccaskill and chris matthews. Because we are watching the vote, we are watching the red voting cards get held aloft, tell us first how voting differs in the senate and house. And secondly, why this looks like a highly social mosh pit in the front. Yeah, it is much different in the house you could vote electronically. In the senate you have to catch the clerks eye and you have to see her or him and say aye or nay and you have to obviously be on the floor of the senate. So it is not a quick process in the senate if there is a roll call because people wander in and out to this and beam have to register individually what their vote is without benefit of electronic device. The thing i would take away from today is if you hadnt been following this closely, if you hadnt listened to the evidence that was presented at the hearings, if you didnt understand who the people were that were referred to from time to time, what you would come from this day is you would come with one overriding feeling and that is, you know, republicans and democrats see this much differently. And they say the same things over and oever again. I dont think this was effective in terms of communicating to the American People what the evidence was and what the defense was other than you dont like donald trump and this was preordained, and clearly theyve taken a poll and decided on the republican side its smarter to say over and over again the democrats hate the president and they just decided to do this when he got elected. Like an hour and three i wrote down is what the democrats are saying and hes admitted hes on no clothes and hes said not only am i not wearing clothes but i want to get ukraine to hurt biden. And the republicans are saying whose fault is it he has on no clothes, its the democrats fault. No one says, yes, he does. Not one republican said the facts were not as the democrats depicted them. Can we quit using this thing because its like its making a picture its very disturbing. Eugene and then chris matthews. Two sides. Chris is absolutely right you saw visually and you heard orally the difference in tone and in character and, you know, angry white guys basically on one side and a very different coalition and a different tone on the other side. And there was also a different intent. It seemed to me that the message that democrats were trying to get out there was they were attempting a unification. They were attempting to bring the rest of the country along. Republicans were trying to divide. Theyre trying to draw a very hard line saying those people over there, they hate us. They hate you. They think youre smelly. Theyre trying to take away your vote and unelect your president , your donald trump. So it was a very different tactic in all the rhetoric that we heard today. Just one bit of news. The two democrats we expected, peterson and van drew in fact have both voted no. Chris matthews, i know for a fact youve been listening for one thing today from the republican side and you never heard it. Ive been here since 9 00 this morning in that chair and ive been listening and ive been watching, and i heard something that wasnt said all day. And heres a president , a human being being accused of horrible things, of selling out his office, of trading his public trust for personal gain, a terrible assault on who he was. And yet all day long with all the republican speakers and they were able to say anything they wanted all day long, not one republican member of the house stood in that well and defended this president s character. Not one person said hes an honest man. Not one person said hes a good man. Not one person said he couldnt have done Something Like this, and that is powerful stuff that a party felt they could play all the games today, they could talk about tactic and style and talk about everyone elses situation but they never defended the man, the person in the white house, his character. This is extraordinary. They dont have any different opinion of Donald Trumps character than any one of his critics and nobody defended him. Think of the change since the bush years. Well, i mean but the from george bush. I know its a bad image, but the point is the central accusation, the central reason for which democrats have built a case of abuse of power is not a dispute. So i agree the tone was galling, the makeup of each side should be a horrendous embarrassment for every republican elected or not, but what youre saying is right. No one had a debate today about whether donald trump did it, whether he would do it or whether hed do it again. If hes the kind of person would do this and no one defended on those grounds. And no republican said it wouldnt happen in 2020. And the common room in my dorm as this was happening 20 years ago around the same time, its really striking the dichbts in tone. There were two things that happened and one was contrition. President clinton apologized and people in his party said he shouldnt have done that. The Grass Roots Movement started the petition to censure the president and move on. Try to think of a moment in which grass roots supporters of this president recommended this president be censured . That the grass roots would say this was wrong what the president did. Its not just they boent defend his character, they actually wont call the thing he did by its name which is that it was wrong. And both of those are entirely missing from the 9 hours we had today. And if you go back to the partisan rancor of that clinton impeachment, that was a striking difference is that people are not defending the behavior, and they were saying that something had to be noted about how wrong it was. That was entirely absent from the republican side today. But where i think the mindbending element of trumpism comes into play in the political dynamic because youre right if you turned on the tv one side was screaming and they were all white and the other was really faithful to the case they built, the evidencebased case. But i think if youre at home watching, it wasnt always clear that the crime isnt in dispute, Abuse Of Power Isnt Being debated. The republican argument was that they were going to impeach him anyway, this was an impeachment looking for a crime, but they didnt take the second step and say there wasnt one. They simply articulated a couple of democrats had been proimpeachment as the crime committed. They never said the crime didnt happen. Neal katyal has joined us from los angeles, a veteran of the department of justice. Neal, what do you make of today with 3 minutes, 22 left in the vote . Well, i mean, i was struck by im thinking about this more historically, brian, as a Constitutional Law Professor and i was struck by something chris said, which was there was no defense of the president s character or really his conduct. They attack the process and things like that. But as we think about Moving Beyond The Nano Second of 2020 and ask what is Donald Trumps legacy going to be, i think even this party even with all the sophistry we heard today couldnt muster up a defense of the man. And i think that will condemn him in the eyes of history regardless of what happenps in the senate, it will be the first line everyone says about President Trump for the next hundred, 200 years, President Trump who was impeached and then itll go on. And the story is yet to be written about what happens in the senate. But if theres a real trial, i think we could see some things change and the successive partisanship we saw today hopefully give way that looks at more evidence. Today ive lived in d. C. For two decades and i never saw as Must Sophistry as i saw today. Just an attack on the democrats and their motivations. And at least in the eyes of history thats not going to stand. And neal, as were talking were getting very close to the number needed to pass. A question that involves politics and procedure, how tough is it going to be for what passes for Middle Of The Road republican senators to say, no, we dont need to hear from john bolton, i think we just passed over the 214. All right, so it appears we are at the number needed. And so on article i with a minute and a half remaining, neal, youre forgive me but this is a moment the president joins the few others on the history of our country to have been impeached unofficially by the House Of Representatives as the voting continues. And i mean just to lean into the points that the republicans started with and carried throughout it day that there was something in the water on the democratic side about his impeachment, they couldnt dance alone. Donald trump had to do something impeachable, and he did. And it would appear he did it the day after the last sort of act that was under scrutiny and discussed as impeachable he did it after mueller testified about his 150 texts with russians and his ten acts obstructing that investigation. So the conduct from the president as wasnt defended, it wasnt debated. Its been an unusual presidency from the start. Oldest firstterm president in our history. First without prior military or Government Service of any kind. First president married three times. First president from the world of television. And now our third president out of 45 impeached. Notably theres been a change at the top in the well of the house, and that is the speaker is at her chair, her gavel by the side. Nancy pelosi one of many women in the house today wearing black because of the seriousness of the cause and the undertaking. There was a line in the New York Times piece about her today where she described i think for the first time a phone call about donald trump where she thought he was calling to talk about gun control legislation, and it was about this gab he had about the idea of being impeached. Hed appealed to her personally, haelz appealed to her directly, and i think tonight when he takes the stage at his rally he will make that impeachment is an asterisk and a stain on his presidency he didnt welcome and he didnt want. Chris matthews, you spent a good deal of time in and around this chamber. 40 with zero time remaining. What does that mean . I was thinking of the people who didnt speak today. Not all of them did. I think, brian, theyre not going to shut it down yet. I think they might wait a bit. Theyll keep it open. Its not an abuse to keep it open a few more seconds. But you wonder what would they do that was more important than this . Making phone calls, raising money in the call time room. We all know what the call time room is. Thats how you stay in the house. You dial for dollars, but its extraordinary. I have to tell you theres a couple of people today that impressed me with their performances, and this will surprise people but i do listen for serious efforts on both sides. I thought scalise was pretty good. I thought Kevin Mccarthy was pretty good. I thought meadow was pretty good. I thought they made the best case they could without having to defend the character of this president. They couldnt bring themselves to defend the guy or the case. They really didnt defend the case. This was a case where we all saw the call record. We all read it, and we argued about whether it was us or mow, but it was us and still made the same point i wanted something, and i care about it more than i care about the National Security of ukraine or our National Security. I want some dirt on this guy whos then leading in the polls this summer, and he was looking directly at the polls. And by the way, biden is back and this whole jamboree of arguments has all been about biden. Its down to 27, brian. I think theyre scooting in there finally. Claire mccaskill, come on, your name has been on a ballot. You cant call in in this business. You have to walk into the chamber. There will be some republicans that will not vote. And it is not unusual for the vote to go over the time allotted. In fact, it is it more common thing that a vote stays open way beyond the number of minutes than it is allotted for, especially for the first vote of the day and this in many ways is like the first vote because its been hours since they had a previous vote, so i think theyll probably how do you explain to the voter out there whos been watching on television and you call up and say to the secretary, whoever answers the phone, how come the person whos representing me in washington isnt representing me in washington . Im willing to bet some of those people not voting are not running again. I think that may be what some of them are you know, one of the things that struck me about today was this notion they went all in that this was the democrats hating trump, and that this was planned the moment he was elected. They know that pelosi came to this reluctantly. They know she took a very strong stand that she thought this would divert the attention away from the important issues that they won the midterms on. Health care, high Prescription Drug costs. And in fact today we had a big decision on the Affordable Care act, which typically wed all be talking about around this table tonight, and frankly lets hope they talk about tomorrow night at the debate. But she only came to this because she had to because of what trump did. Trump caused this. No one else caused this. Trump caused this, and the fact he is desperate to avoid this branding, it doesnt even appear he was willing to do what might have cured it in some ways saying he was sorry and he made a terrible mistake. And its sfrieking he both sought it out and hated it. Whats so remarkable here is this sort of damocles has hung over his head. And this is someone who skirted the edge of the law for 40 or 50 years, the settlement in atlantic city, the civil suit after civil suit. Hes been associated with people who have gone to jail. Theres been a lot of sketchy transactions in his property. Hes moved through the world never having to face any kind of fundamental accountability for his actions, his ethics or his character until the vote right there went over. This is the first time in the mans life that he is facing any kind of Concrete Judgment on the nature of his behavior ever. Well, whats so interesting about that is that to your point, chris, Chris Christie and i think on your show said that with Sdny Noodling around in the trump organization, the Trump Campaign and the trump inauguration, theyre going to find something. Now you only say that if you know trump well enough to know theres something to find. People that know him say it isnt always an above board operation. People that know him say whatever happened at the end of mueller, trump will do it again. I think people might be surprised he did the very next day. Even now were talking about him, and im telling you a great line in Maltese Falcon when Humphrey Bogart says a little trouble in the mines. He didnt want to get impeached but he loved talking about it. Let me be the falcon of the garden party and do some recordkeeping. Sharpeyed viewers may have noticed something that has gone away, and that was a single republican yea vote. It was in the column for most of our conversation. It has vanished. Well try to get some reporting on that. Secondly, Tulsi Gabbard who was mysteriously missing all day is in the chamber and has voted present. Claire mccaskill, what does that mean . Its just stupid. What is the point . I dont know what this woman is accomplishing by that. Were talking about her and really we shouldnt spend any time talking about her. Its not, frankly, relevant to anything. Shes running for president as a democrat. We hasten to add that. Chris matthews, how do you take a vote off the board if youre the republican who voted yea . Where did that go . Its been done. This is dynamic process. They look up at the board and they fix it. I have to tell you when youve been thinking about this for months and you have this last second, i got it wrong in that instant you got it wrong, what changed . Tuning in what you see is whats happening. Its not been made official. Were waiting for the speaker to hit that gavel. The microphones are closed to us by the House Of Representatives. The mics will come on when we hear from the speaker. So we have to say unofficially a majority of House Members have voted to impeach the president of the United States on article i of two articles. Its unbelievable. And, you know, donald trump didnt flip a switch and suddenly make our politics as tribal and nasty and partisan as they are. I worked in a white house that was the target of a lot of ire from a lot of people, but it was never like this and i have to say it was never like this on either side. One, he was never impeached. Two, republicans didnt defend him people say this was the Republican Party the way theyve always been no, its not. They didnt blindly defend mitt romney and thats a good thing, sarah palin, george bush and especially dick cheney. So this met formsis of the Republican Party is as big a history made today when donald trump has now been impeached by the House Of Representatives for abusing his office. The coconspirators today are the republicans in the house. Theyre more than halfway down the slippery slope. But the moment is, you know, third time in American History. This is this is a very big deal for this country. Heck of a moment to be backstage for our own garret hake. Can you add any reporting to what were seeing in this static shot of the tally from the Clerks Office . I was in the chamber all day long and i remember the paul ryan days on kopt not that long ago when republicans used to at least to contort themselves to not accept the way that President Trump talked about his political allies if not condemn it outright. On the floor of the house today you heard one republican member compare the impeachment to the trial of christ, you heard another compared to pearl harbor and another compared to mccarthyism ive got to cut you off for the speaker. Article i is adopted. The question is on adoption of article ii. The question is on the adoption of article ii. Those in favor say aye. Those opposed nay. The ayes have it. For what purpose does the gentleman from new york city madam speaker, i ask for a vote for what purpose does the gentleman from new york seek recognition . I ask for a roll call vote. A recorded vote is requested. Those favoring the recorded vote will rise. Members will record their votes by electronic device. Is a five minute vote. The microphones have been killed again by the house. An unmistakable look to her caucus when she feared there was going to be celebration not unlike when schumer did that physically after the famous john mccain thumbs down on health care. I mean to garrets point, its the tale of two parties. She is running her caucus with decorum. She is as said at the beginning, this was a day about history, this was a day about the history donald trump made by being the third president in our countrys history to abuse his office. This is the third Time Congress has taken this step, and the contrast is just so stunning. You had the other side resembled a bar brawl watching a rugby match. It could not be more striking the difference between the two. And theres something to that in the politics of this moment. Were talking and started out with the question of where minds change, right . The Republican Party has been able since 2016 to govern from 42 to 43 of the country. They have directed all of their rhetorical energies at their 42 to 43 of the country. They have lashed themselves to that 42 to 43 of the country and because of the structure of the american constitution, the Electoral College and the senate which you know well, they have been able to retain a tremendous amount of governmental power. They feel no need to speak to people in the next 10 of the country. You saw it on display today. One side feels the need to cheer and yell as if they were at a trump rally because they view themselves as in the stadium together in the minority of the country that currently yields governmental power, and the other side is laser focused on the median voter, laser focused on the outside of that 43 in the majority of the country that doesnt approve of the president of the United States. All of the restraint nancy pelosi showed in not wanting to get pulled in for impeachment was with a mind to how this would appear to the median voter and one side has given up caring about that because so far with the exception of the defeat in 2018 in the house, it has worked out reasonably well from the perspective of wielding political power. That is the question on the table in some ways in both the senate trial in 2020 is how long can you govern from a minority of the country speaking to minority of the country . I want to say i worked for a speaker for six years every morning with them and ive never seen anything like this. Her ability to read the house, understanding that National Security would work in those communities, if people read the paper, they think big theyre very educated i should say, very aware of these issues and it wasnt about the emoluments clause, it Wasnt About Ethics or the cheap stuff trump has done, its about the grand macro issues of whos going to look out for this country and hes not looking out for this country. And she knew that would sell. She knew that the people on the front line as you said are going to fight this fight. And its fascinating i look at the number its almost the 232 they started with and its 229. Its almost the number they got calling for the investigation, which is almost an a plus in terms of organization. But i think machiavelli said you must be feared but not hated, and thats her. Shes not hated, shes feared and that is genius. And you know who agrees with you . Donald trump agrees. Hes on the record with his admiration for her. And when she ended the Government Shutdown for the good of all the government workers who were suffering she he seemed in some ways relieved. That was a colossal failure for him as was this. The way she orchestrated like an Orchestra Conductor she just goes like this like dont cheer and responded there wasnt any cheering on the progressive side. And by the way the critics are right, there are a lot of people who wanted to impeach this guy from the time they heard about him. But that wasnt going to get him impeached. What was going to get him impeached for folks watching were waiting for 214, knowing itll be unofficial. Go ahead, jack. Sorry, somebody was talking to me. Knowing itll be unofficial, waiting for the gavel. This is a fast vote, five minutes. Were about to run out of time. If we can lower our banner to see the clock and well know when. Okay, so were under 10 seconds. And she just extended the last one, so obviously well go into golden time here. Im thinking too you had rick wilson on your show last night. I had him on mine. Playing for history and making the historic argument about donald trump isnt something that you think about doing in a general election. It wasnt essential to Hillary Clintons message. It is this moment, though, that nancy pelosi was patient enough to wait for. She had to with tand stand a lot of pressure after the Mueller Report came out from her left, but she waited for trump to do something that really did jeopardize not just our National Security in the moment he did it but our National Security in the next president ial election. And youve got chris wray, the sitting fbi director, Admiral Rogers his now retired nsa director, and countless other National Security officials who testified that know we are not doing nearly enough to protect our election from russia. The results in the room. By the way, i have to interrupt. We have again for those watching at home and looking at these numbers theres a notable number top line and that is three democratic nays. We know so far that one of them is a member of congress that announced that was his intention, and thats congressman golden of maine. Tulsi gabbard on the board again with her second straight present vote. Neither here nor there on impeachment. With that she will walk away from this. And Claire Mccaskill, the democratic nays allow them to be able to say on article i they voted with the majority. Yeah, the one member, you know, split it and said yes on one and no on the other. And so thats why you get the three here. And you only had the two on the first article of impeachment. The question is how many of those votes will be there in the senate. Yep. How many witnesses if any will appear the witness is a problem for mcconnell. The issue of witnesses appearing because if individual votes are taken, it would be very difficult for many of the senators to vote against calling key fact witnesses which 71 or Something Like that 62 of republicans. What are collins and mcsally going to say when theyre asked do you want to hear from bolton or not . Thats a problem for mcconnell. I think hes going to negotiate something with schumer in that regard. But the question is who will vote to remove the president and the Republican Party in the senate . Guess what . Ill tell you a secret. The majority of them think hes terrible, and they think hes a problem for our country, and they are embarrassed about how he behaves, and they know his conduct is reprehensible. How many of them will actually vote what they will say to me and many others in private that, yeah, he is a terrible man theres a few. The system is designed theres a much heavier lift than impeachment. Its supposed to be a trial. Its supposed to be difficult to remove a president. Thats why it hasnt been done. One is probably cause one of the voices thats been raised today against that congressman Jerry Goldman up in maine who says hes going to split his vote between 1 and 2 is stephen king, the novelist. He will stay under your stairs forever. The problem with history is that it doesnt always feel like it in realtime, but this moment make no mistake is historic because, again, all numbers unofficial. Weve crossed the threshold making for two articles of impeachment. Ari melber, you are watching and listening along with us. Your thoughts having crossed this clethreshold. Great to be you. Because the country is seeing this. The president stands credibly accused of on extortion plot to try to cheat an election and an obstruction plot to cover it up. And now with these votes coming in it looks like the congress impeaching him for both of those things. In law, brian, we would call what the president has done a voluntary confession. And you saw this in the floor statements today, thats what brings to the floor the lawlessness and brazenness because it is rare to see someone confess and then obstruct. He walks out onto the white house lawn and says forget the corruption defense. I want an investigation of my rival. I wanted the bidens taken out. Thats what he says. He confesses and he goes onto obstruct the congress openly, defiantly, wantonly. Its a bad day for the president in his first tum. Hes the first elected president ever to be impeached in his first term. Ari, keeping in mind i am watching the speaker and her movements like a dog with a tennis ball. If she reaches for that gavel we will gently quiet everyone and listen in. We have a lot of no votes still outstanding at 33. Give me the short version, ari, of how you intellectually get to a yes on one article and a no on the next . I suppose one way you would do it is to look at different types of problems. All right, i promise this, were watching the gavel. She has picked it up. She is toying with it, and with it our attention span. 26 no votes, nicolle, still outstanding. You know whats amazing and just to sort of hit pause again or freeze frame this moment, hes being impeached right now, the second she gavels in for obstructing congress. Hes been obstructing Congress Since the day he got there. Today is about the way he rolls day after day after day, the way he thumbs his nose at the rule of law, at the legal Constitutional Authority of congress day after day. And as adam shif sachiff said h finally got caught and he admitted it. And he added his own Exclamation Points and hes on stage in battle creek, michigan. Where else would he be . As you said he has just been held accountable twice in the most serious way a president can be held accountable short of removal in the senate. But hes been impeached by the House Of Representatives. That is part of American History that will never be erased, and that will always tell people a lot about the donald trump era. And the reason for the import of that at this moment, the reason for the urgency and in the ways a little bit of despair and some people have been following this as theyve realized the Spur Situation as met its end is precisely because it feels like weve drilled down pretty close to the bedrock of whats holding this whole thing together. Can you get other people to manufacture investigations and author investigations into an american citizen into your rival . Can you reach into the process by which we do the electing of our representatives and start to toy with it, start to exert a Gravitational Force on it, to push it in One Direction or the other . If you can do that, you can get away with it, and it feels like were moving towards a place thats a pretty tough place to reconcile at least what we espouse as the basic fundamentals of the way the system works. And thats why all this feels quite dire, honestly, because the behavior is still there and Rudy Giuliani is still running around ukraine, and the president clearly feels not just contriction for it, he feels a weird kind of pride, he feels a weird kind of braggadociousness about what hes done, he wants people to investigate his enemies, he wants to do whats possible whatever dirty tricks he can get up to win the next election. It is it most important point. As you said we drilled down congress, the House Intelligence Committee investigation drilled down to the bedrock of who he is. Hes a cheater. I had a guy who wrote a book about how he cheats at golf and cheats at campaigns. And now as president hes using his powers as the american president who other countries depend onto help him cheat in the 2020 election, an election that hasnt happened yet. This a slide down and the way you stop it is saying no. And now the House Of Representatives is saying no. 11 no votes. Were watching the speaker. To the control room can you invert the big little boxes and can we see the full chamber just for a hot second here, just because its interesting and instructive to see where the democrats are caucusing there, thats the upper side of the picture where formally tip oneils neighborhood and the republicans closer to the bottom of the frame. Democrats appear to have a Festival Seating going on, chris. Theyre not leaving. I think a lot of the republicans have left the chamber. Im going to be watching trumps behavior now because hes been sowing his brand since he got on, he has a beautiful wife. He talks about womens looks, he talks about his looks. Hes a very aesthetic guy. Hes obsessed with appearance and gold and high rise golden buildings. Here he is now marked, marred. He is now ugly he used the word the other Day Impeachment is ugly, im new ugly. Hows he going to react to this . Hes now ugly in history. Is he going to break worse . But ill tell you one thing its going to do to him, he will do anything to get elected because the only way back for him is to double this, to win twice no matter what the deep state, fake media, et cetera. He has to win the next time. Here we go. On this vote the yeas are 229. The nays are 198. Present is one, article ii is adopted. Mics have been killed once again. Were waiting to see if the speaker has anything further. She is leaving which chair. Dona donald j. Trump has now been impeached. Without objection article i is laid on the table. Without objection the motion to reconsider article ii is laid on the table. Pursuant to section 7b of House Resolution 758 the house stands adjourned until 9 00 a. M. Tomorrow. Congresswoman degette from colorado who has been sitting in as speaker during much of the afternoon session, you heard the woman theyre adjourned until 9 00 a. M. Its sad. I was just watching, it is so sad that theres a president willing to be impeached over this, over cheating in another election. Not that theres a good i guess thats always what trips up a politician, this illusion of absolute power, of cutting corners. But i think theres more thats ominous than reassuring in tonights vote to impeach him in the house. The politics are ominous, the way we talk about the outcomes being certain because of our politics, it should be depressing to everybody in politics and covering politics. I think theres more unknown than we can say right now and i think its impossible to be senator gardener or collins and say im leaning towards acquittal but i cannot acquit you until i hear from people who that have appeared in testimony. Fiona hill said john bolton said it was a derog deal. If it is, ive got to pray on that or think on that. I think the senate trial has the potential to take this country on an even more dramatic roller coaster ride. John, as i said my basis as an amateur in your world, history doesnt always feel that way in realtime. Though this feels historic, take on that and the point that nicolle just made about what awaits us in the senate, please. Well, were all on trial here. Governor morris is credit would the phrase we are the people. He was on the Drafting Committee that wrote that majestic preamble to the constitution. And one of the things we have to remember is that what we just saw, what we just swent all Day Absorbbing was the peoples house considering the existential question of our time, which is the law more important or is partisanship more important . And the Democratic Party in this case did the right thing. The Republican Party remarkably, i think, decided that their partisan passion was more important than their brains or even id argue their hearts. Their appetites is what won the day for them. And a republic is the sum of its parts. So were all complicit and eugene just used the phrase, the trump era. Its not just the trump era. Its also this american era. And one of the things i have to go back is to remember that the fundamental insight of the founding, the document that really led to the majestic proceedings that unfolded today and will unfold in some way or other in the Senate Whether or not theyre majestic or not was that we were always more likely to be driven by sin and shortcoming and appetite and ambition than we would be by what lincoln would call our better angels. And so the constitution was written with this sense we were always going to fall short, so we had to decide sovereignty. We had to check and balance ourselves so that when we were headed down the wrong path or a selfish path, we could be stopped. And so far at this one stop the president who has been sort of stopped. The senate now has a solemn responsibility, and it seems to me i was thinking about edman burke all day as im sure you were. Burke said that there were two kinds of representation. There was the representation where you offer you the reflection of your constituents will, and then theres a representation where you offer your constituents your best judgment. And i think what the senate has to do is get to a point where theyre not simply reflecting what they think their constituents want in this moment but to have offer a judgment thats informed by the longterm health of a republic that has proven to be the best hope of man on earth. But theres nothing guaranteed about that. Theres nothing certain about our future, and everyone one of us now has a particular role in saying, no, we will not have the rule of law trampled by the demagogue of a moment. John, you know the republicans were talking about here. You know the ones who are going to have to answer that very weighty question. Do you think they have it . Honestly, sadly, no. I think that they are deciding that they are going to reflect what they think is coming from their states, and there are enough of them who i believe are putting selfpreservation in front of the longterm health of the republic. Easy for me to say. Ive never faced a voter, ive never run for office. But one of the things you have to ask yourself is why do you run for office . Is it simply to stay in office no matter what . Or do you do it in order to actually serve the country in a way that and im not being noble about it, but serve a country in a way that the future will look back and celebrate you . Who would you rather be, Margaret Chase smith, the senator from maine who opposed joe mccarthy in the first months after he first launched his witch hunts or do you want to be joe mccarthy . Do you want to be a byword for selfishness and selfish gain or an icon of principle and courage . I think thats a fairly easy choice if you frame it not in this cycle but in the life of this country itself. John meacham, among those we call on at moments like this one a bona fide historic moment tonight we all shared in on live television. And john, thank you as we thank everyone whos been around and part of our coverage from ari melber, chris hayes has been here with us, eugene robinson, former senator Claire Mccaskill and chris matthews. At this point we handoff to the usual occupant of this coming hour, 9 00 p. M. Eastern time. Rachel maddow is here. Brian, thank you so much. You guys have done amazing work covering this live event as it is unfolded. I want to thank you at home for being with us all through these proceedings and all through this very, very dramatic evening

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