Red exodus as another big name republican heads for the door. All in starts right now. Good evening from new york. In less than two days the house will hold public impeachment hearings against the president of the United States for just the fourth time in american history. The hearings will be televised live. And our tv obsessed president and his cronies are trying to find some sort of counter narrative or distraction. It is a freak out born out of their fundamental impa tense. It gives them the power to run those proceedings as they see fit. Democrats control the house, so there is just about nothing the president or republicans can do. Although, one thing they could do is attempt to construct arguments that might be persuasive to the general public about the president s behavior or the facts around the case. The facts are really bad. The behavior is inexcusable. So republicans are going to extremes, including trying to out the whistleblower who is protected by federal law and already receiving death threats. Trumps surrogates made the rounds who tried to argue that if you do not succeed at committing a crime then the attempt doesnt count. Do you think ultimately the president will be impeached and removed from office. No. On what . You are going to impeach a president for asking for a favor that didnt happen and giving money and it wasnt withheld . I dont know what you would impeach him on. Interesting theory. Republican congressman tried to say the bad does bad things all the time, so really how is this any different . There is not really anything that the president said in that phone call thats different than he says in public all the time. So is there some sort of abuse of power that rises to that threshold that is different than the American People have been hearing for three years . I dont hear that. You have gotten used to it, america. You cant quit now. Senator john carry went out and tries to ascribe motivation to trumps request. Here are the two possible scenarios. Number one, the president asked for an investigation of a political rival. Number two, the president asked for an investigation of possible corruption by someone who happens to be a political rival. The latter would be in the national interest. The former would be in the president s parochial interests and over the line. Give kennedy credit for at least trying a nuanced argument. But it doesnt really matter what the president s motivations were. We learned from the most recent impeachment transcript of a department of defense official released today that it was, according to multiple entities within the government itself, in the interest of u. S. National security to provide military aid to ukraine. So the president withholding that money was definitely not done in the best interest of the u. S. The testimony of that Defense Department official also noteworthy because it was delayed for five hours. That was the day that House Republicans stormed the secure room where the interview was being held and they ordered pizza and delayed the hearing, demanded to be let in, even though many of them were already allowed to be in there. Many republicans who have sat in these depositions have not taken full advantage. A Perfect Little microcosm of this appears in one of the transcripts. Mark meadows as an opportunity to substantively question a witness before him. But instead of actually question the witness, he spends several minutes complaining about not being allowed to ask questions. The acting chairman tells him he can ask questions over and over and over and over and over. That, you know, is the republican approach in a nutshell, whining about process, but not engaging on the substance. Meanwhile, the president s approach has been to tweet insane information about the transcripts and undermine the republican messages of the day. Quote, republicans, dont be l into the fools trapped saying it was not perfect, the phone call that is. It is not impeachable. No, it is much stronger than that. Nothing was done wrong. All of these are just attempts, different attempts to try to find some story, any story that will stick to keep the trump base in mind. The goal here is not to persuade people not persuadable as much as it is to give trump tv something to talk about that is not the president s completely impeachable behavior when he attempted to extort a leader. House republicans will not be in the business of making arguments to persuade the middle of the country. They will be going into this entire undertaking on a sabotage mission. One of the Congress People investigating the president of virginia. Shes a member of the House Foreign Affairs committee. Congresswoman, you were one of those freshmen reps who wrote an on ed when the whistleblower complaint first started to surface and its contents talking about how troubling it is. It was seen as a watershed moment in breaking the dam. Looking back now as you are about to go into public hearings on this, are you glad you did that or is it better or worse than you thought it might be . So i was one of the freshmen democratic members who wrote an op ed. In that capacity i worked to ensure that we were upholding u. S. National security interest and protecting our country from all threats. I think it was absolutely the right choice to assert to the American Public and most especially to my constituents that the allegations the president was facing at that time and continues to face represent truly unthinkable potential violations and if they are true, impeachable allegations. And it was necessary and continues to be necessary that the house of representatives use every Authority Available to us to get all facts in evidence related to these allegations and to discern what it is that really happened. You are someone who represents a district that was a republican district, and i think there are a lot of people in your district that voted for the president or who might be in the habit of voting for republicans, consider themselves republicans. How much do you think there is persuadable room. When you are thinking about going to your constituents and talking about the facts of the case and what is being presented, how much do you think you can persuade folks . How much do the facts matter in those interactions . Well, i think were entering a really important next phase. I am on one of the committees of jurisdiction, so i have been able to attend depositions and read testimony up until this point. But i think the next phase of this inquiry will be vitally important. This is the portion where the American Public get to participate. The American Public gets to hear the testimony, see directly from the witnesses what it is that some of us on these committees of jurisdiction have already been able to see. I think that that is vitally important. I think that the next step is ensuring that the American People not just understand the allegations of the president but understand that we have career Public Servants of backgrounds having worked under republican and democratic administrations alike making these allegations, that we have veterans and purple heart recipients that speak to deeply disturbing allegations against the president of the United States, allegations that he sought to leverage foreign aid, foreign aid that is given because it serves our best National Security priorities, foreign aid for information and for the public declaration of an investigation to benefit him in a forwardlooking future election. And i think its going to be vital that the American People be part of this next step, be able to be witnesses to the testimony thats given in these future hearings. Your colleagues, republican colleagues and the republicanaligned media seems obsessed with the whistleblower, the identity of the whistleblower. The president s son tweeted out his identity. Though, i dont know if its true or not. What do you ascribe to that and what do you make of the way in which they are talking to this individual who as far as reporting indicates was at the cia where you yourself once worked . I find it actually rather confusing. It is congress is the body that created whistleblower protections in the first place. It is some of my colleagues who were still serving who went so far as to put laws into place to protect whistleblowers so that we can ensure that people who see things that are not acceptable within our federal government can step forward and be protected from retaliation, that they can ring the bell when there is something to be concerned about. But i think most importantly what is really important for your viewers to know is while the whistleblower complaint is what got much of this investigation started, every aspect of what is outlined in that whistleblower complaint, in fact, has been discussed by witness after witness. So we have seen named witnesses, people who have come forward and testified before the impeachment inquiry hearing and committee to discuss what it is that was initially set forth in this complaint. Right. All right. Congresswoman, thank you very much for your time. Thank you. And happy veterans day. Yeah. To you. Thanks a lot. As we approach wednesdays hearing there is moving parts to the investigation. More depositions. And they have these outstanding requests, even subpoenas, that have gone out to several witnesses who declined to come before the committee. One of them was a former National Security adviser john boltons deputy who did a thing to go to a court to get a proactive ruling whether he should listen to congress or the white house. Bolton also said he would follow the lead of the court case here and both bolton and his deputy subpoenas were withdrawn by the house because House Democrats do not want a judge to swoop in and say they have no case here and take their subpoena power away effectively. Today we learned that trumps chief of staff Mick Mulvaney who also was subpoenaed tried to join that lawsuit and then gave up the effort by the end of the day. Joining me now is bob bower, former white House Counsel under president barack obama who has some experience navigating the very rocky halls of congressional and white house interactions and the law. What do you make of this situation in which there is a petition for a ruling by a court by this subpoenaed witness. Bolton joined it. The house withdrew it, trying to render it moot. And then Mick Mulvaney tried to jump in today. Yes, mulvaney wanted to piggyback on the complaint or motion, rather. And they opposed it. They said that mulvaney didnt belong with them. Their argument was many fold. One argument they made was they were hitching much of their argument to the fact they were involved in National Security conversations. And mulvaney doesnt have that behind him. He doesnt have that to draw on. And this National Security factor is one that bolton wants the court to weigh carefully in deciding what their obligation to testify might be. That was part of it. They noted mulvaney may have breached anyway because he had that disastrous White House Press conference where he announced there was a quid pro quo and the American People should get over it, that political influence was typical in foreign relations. They felt that, quite frankly, his presence would be a real ball and chain on their case and they didnt want any part of it. They opposed it in which part mulvaney withdrew and said he was going to file his own suit. We have seen assertions of absolute immunity and vague references to privilege with the white house but no specific invocations thereof. Talk about that concept, which is interesting to me. Yes. Well, the argument that of course white house officials make directed by the white house, at least that wont testify, others have, is that they cannot testify because it breaches an absolute immunity they have that rests on a claim that the president has to have the full confidential advice completely expected by exposure of senior aids. If they go to the White House Press room and discuss it, that endangers that claim. That was the point that bolton and cupperman made. They said we have never done anything like that, and we dont want mulvaney in our action. They claim theyre completely neutral. They will do what the court directed them to do. Whereas in mulvaneys case he appeared to be proexecutive. He had a position in the case, and they didnt want his position to tar their more neutral position. It is striking to me that a lot of this we have talked about this a bit before as we head into the formal part of this process. These fights between the branches who has to testify and who doesnt, there is very little jurisprudence on it and very little guidance by the courts. It is a kind of power struggle between these two branches about who has what power in what scenario, right . Yes. But there are two layers of analysis here. One is in the typical oversight area, that is nonimpeachment oversight, typically the executive and the congress try to work it out. The congress has executive privilege claims that he or she may want to make and the Congress Wants the testimony and they try to work out some accommodations so that the president can protect the privilege to some extent but the congress receives the information that it wants. But now were in impeachment. And the congress is making the case, and i think it is obviously a very strong case, that the impeachment power is when congresss demand for the information is as its apex. It is when there isnt a defense against providing that information except bolton and cupperman want to know where the conversations between the president and the senior aids implicates sensitive National Security matters. Final question for you. You have always struck me as a very careful lawyer. You were white House Counsel when one has to be quite careful in that position. Rudy giuliani, the president s lawyer, though, on the basis of that is a little unclear. Hes not getting paid for that. There is a headline today hes considering launching an impeachment podcast. Do you think thats a good idea from a legal perspective . I would have to say no. I cant imagine that the president s personal legal team or the white House Counsel would be thrilled that giuliani is podcasting his views on impeachment. He is apparently the subject, possibly the target of grand jury proceedings. His involvement in ukraine is the subject of all of this testimony. His business dealings are the subject of this testimony. He was in regular communication with donald trump. So why he would decide that hes going to have his own sort of, if you will, Public Communications channel on this subject is completely beyond me. I have never heard anything like it. Thank you so much. Certainly. Up next, new reporting that changes what we know about when the ukraine scheme all began and what were learning straight from the lawyer of rudys indicted buddy in two minutes. Is your business still settling for slow internet . Well time is money. Switch to comcast business now and get a great deal when you get fast, reliable internet. With a 30day moneyback guarantee, installation when it works for you, and 24 7 customer support. So what are you waiting for . Get this great deal when you sign up for fast, reliable internet. Call 18005016000 today. Comcast business. Beyond fast. Do you remember back in may when Rudy Giuliani announced he was going to ukraine to try to get the government to manufacture dirt on joe biden. At the time he literally said, quote, we are not meddling in an election. We are meddling in an investigation. There is nothing illegal about it. Somebody could say its improper. Adam schiff responded to him, yes, it is immoral. And two days later, giuliani canceled that trip. We are finding out that a version of that mission appears to still have happened. His associates delivered the message instead. Hes the guy on the left. He told the New York Times through his new lawyer on the record that he, quote, told a representative the incoming ukraine government it had to announce an investigation into joseph biden and his son or else Vice President mike pence would not attend the swearing in of the new president and the United States would freeze aid. He also said this message was delivered at the direction of mr. Giuliani. Now the other indicted guy and giuliani deny his announce of that may meeting. Giuliani saying categorically i did not tell him to say that. Neither of these guys actually dispute that the meeting actually occurred. So if what he is saying is true, this could be the first explicit attempt to just openly extort the ukraine government in the way we have now seen in the call in the testimony. Remember, exactly a week ago that parnas broke ranks with giuliani, which strongly suggests hes cooperating. More on that, im joined by National Security reporter for the daily beast and National Security correspondent for politico. And this claim makes sense of another part of the time line, which is that we know that all the way back in may, the administration was freaked out about the fact that aid was maybe being upheld and maybe they had to investigate biden in order to get it unupheld. Yeah. Thats right. So we talked to several sources about the story we worked on. What we found out was that top ukrainian officials actually reached out to washington to current and former u. S. Officials about their concerns, inquiring, hey, listen, you know, we got the trumps personal lawyer on tv talking about how he wants to go to ukraine and talking about investigations into the bidens. How is this going to affect the military aid that were expecting and, you know, possibly a white house visit between zelinski and trump. At the time trump signed a letter and delivers it to ukraine inviting him to the white house. But even still ukrainian officials are wary about whats going on here especially because Rudy Giuliani and his associates were so active in ukraine talking to ukrainian officials at that time about the bidens. There is another story too of notable significance, which is parnas making this claim strikes me as a huge break from where he was a week ago. They said he wouldnt be cooperating with the impeachment investigation. Then they got indicted. Then parnas ditched his lawyer for a new one. What do you read as the implications . It could be that hes just trying to send a signal to the president who has of course tried to distance himself in a big way in the past couple weeks saying that he never knew them or worked with them even though they were pictured together at galas and fundraisers. Right now hes willing to cooperate with a few caveats. Its not recommended that a client speak to impeachment and house investigators when they are currently undergoing a criminal inquiry in another district. So it remains to be seen whether his lawyers will allow him to cooperate with impeachment investigators, but we have to remember why what hes saying is so significant. It blows up the argument by trump and his allies that the ukrainians did not know what the military aid was being withheld. One thing that really struck me from alexanders testimony earlier this week that was released was he said that he actually started hearing about aid being withheld as early as june which would fit with the time line of parnas telling ukraine that aid may be held and that certain ukrainian officials were concerned it may not be released. That is really the reason why the time line here is so important. Thats a key point. One of the defenses and i think its not a particularly powerful one, but it is at least sort of rooted in some engagement with the facts is the idea that, you know, they couldnt really put the squeeze on because the ukrainians were not aware this hold was being put on the aid. But if they are being told through other channels, that falls apart. Thats right. Washington according to our sources knew what ukrainians were worried about and feeling at that time. And, you know, questions that arise for me here is, you know, how is the state department handling some of these concerns. Right. By, you know, these top ukrainian officials. Most likely their jobs remain that much harder given that ukrainians were so on edge and given the lack of communication from the white house and with the state department about exactly, a, who was really involved with the ukraine portfolio and what was coming next. There is also another hold here we got today from the testimony i think of laura cooper that was released. We know there was a hold on aid at the president s direction. Thats been established. But another separate earlier hold because he was concerned russia would react negatively. And the rest of the government said we can do this. Thats striking to me, too, because thats the issue that he mentions that triggers the president to say i want you to do us a favor, though. Right. And the javelins of course are extremely important to the ukrainians because they help fend off russian aggression in the east. Apparently the reason why Mick Mulvaney was so hesitant to release these javelins was because of how the russians might respond. But another interesting thing is that this is one of two things that the president points to to show hes tough on russia, the fact they provide military aid to the ukrainians and the fact they did give the javelins to the ukrainians. It turns out the military aid was withheld and the javelins were almost not sold to the ukrainians because they were worried about how the russians might react here. Everything seems to be a calculation about how these things might affect russia, about how it will affect the president s personal political interests. We have to remember that through the ukraine story is a direct through line from russia and mueller in 2016 to whats happening now with the ukrainian scandal. They objected to those javelin sales and along similar lines, that it would be needlessly provocative to russia. But this administration said they would turn the page here. And all the agencies were onboard. Thank you both. Next, rick perry lands lucrative deals for his political donors. The reporter who broke that story joins me after this. Int. 12 hours . 20 dogs . Wheres your belly rubs . After a day of chasing dogs you shouldnt have to chase down payments. vo send invoices and accept payments to get paid twice as fast. danny its time to get yours vo quickbooks. Backing you. They use stamps. Com all the services of the post office only cheaper get a 4week trial plus postage and a digital scale go to stamps. Com tv and never go to the post office again. The amount of Student Loan Debt i have, im embarrassed to even say. We just decided we didnt want debt any longer. I didnt realize how easy investing could be. Im Picking Companies that i believe in. I think sofi money is amazing. Thank you sofi. Sofi thank you, we love you. With just a few weeks left on the job, rick perry is trying to get out the door untouched by serious scandal. But he is up to his neck in all this ukraine stuff. Do you remember when gordon somlin volunteered . We have what are called the three amigos, secretary perry, ambassador voelker and myself. We have been tasked at the highest levels. So former special envoy to ukraine, the three amigos. Two have already been imposed by investigators. Voelker even handed over those text messages. Perry is denying in the press he knows anything about all that. But as of now he isnt willing to say that under oath. What does rick perry know about the ukraine extortion plot . Another one is what was rick perry doing helping to land a lucrative deal . According to a wild new report, quote, ukraine awarded the contract to perrys supporters a little more than a month after the energy secondary attended the inauguration. The only competing bidder offered more than 60 million for the first phase of the protect compared with 53 million, that would be less from perrys supporters. How much more weight this adds to perrys role in the impeachment scandal. All right. So we know that perry goes and hes part of the official delegation in may to the inauguration and he meets with him and its established by everyone that they talk energy policy, right . Yeah. Thats right. I mean, it is a strange thing. Hes the top representative for the Trump Administration at the inauguration, but he takes the time to meet with zelinski and hand him a list of people he thinks should be american advisers on energy policy. Including people that he thinks should be on the board of their Natural Gas Company or as just advisers . I have seen it phrased both ways. Well, there is a Supervisory Board that really came from western pressure to clean up the gas company. I see. And hes he was apparently suggesting that the whole board should be replaced. Hes suggesting some people who should be on it. And at one point he apparently indicated that that, you know, there should be a representative who is good in republican circles. And these are people, some of those names, these are people that perry has known for a long time or longtime supporters of his. Well, at least one of them on the list of four for sure. List got a big contract. Identifies this hes on the list. Precise lee the thing that the republicans said is corrupt about hunter biden. But that aside, this guy is a supporter of mine, he might be good and he gets an official government contract with the Ukrainian Government . Right. And according to perrys office, he had no role in that contract. We should say that perry we know was very involved in ukrain policy. He has very much denied that he played any specific role in enunsiating the terms that weve seen. I want taplay his denial of that, take a listen. Not once was the former Vice President biden or his son evtalked bout. Always corruption in the country but a relatively vague term of theole ga oligarchs and what have you. Im extremely comfortable that not did the president of the United States or any of his administration or team ever talk about, with the intent of there was quid pro quo. That was from october 7th. But what do we know about the extensiveness of perrys communications with folks on the ukrainian side . Tatsz athats his story that he never heard that word. That he was specifically sited in no, that he was in a meeting in which it was discussed at the white house is how i read it. And perrys presence is part of a larger involvement thats are been inaccounted for by two other people with similar roles but not perry. Correct because he has not agreed to testify. Thank you so much for joining us. The exodus from congress. The latest bigname republican to call it quits. Plus the triumphant return. If you have medicare, listen up. The medicare enrollment deadline is only days away. With so many changes, do you know if your plan is still the right fit . Having the wrong plan may cost you thousands of dollars out of pocket, and thats why i love healthmarkets, your insurance marketplace. With their new fitscore, they compare thousands of plans from National Insurance companies to find the right medicare plan that fits you. Call or visit healthmarkets to find your fitscore today. In minutes, you can find out if your current plan is the right fit or if theres another one that can get you extra coverage or help save you money. Best of all, their service is completely free. Does your plan have 0 copays, 0 deductibles, and 0 premiums . If not, maybe its not the right fit. Does it include dental and vision coverage . Well, if not, maybe its not the right fit. How about hearing aid, glasses and gym memberships at no additional cost . 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Thing one tonight, the president s twitter account has been like the trump book club. Pretty much any book that flatters him gets a glowing review. Make sure you order your copy or stop by a book tour spot to say hello. He called lee smiths plot against the president a great new book and called the case for nationalism great and important. But then his son donald trump jr. s book, it is good. I just finished reading it. Im sure thats true. Donald trump jr. Is calling the book triggered. Nobody is saying the book isnt really good except for the fact when he talked about the visit to Arlington Cemetery said it reminded him of his familys sacrifices. He got heckled off the stage by his own fans. Heckled off the s his own fans donald trump jr. Has not done any interviews on msnbc but he has been making the rounds to everywhere else from laura ingram to a full hour with mark cuban. He did go on dwhaet view which turned into a legacy case battle royal and that couldnt compare to his own book events in california. So what you just saw was the author of triggered walking off the stage because of a buchb of hecklers. It was supposed to be a safe space for don jr. That was the result of rival factions of maga people beefing about whether they could ask questions. It ruined what should have been a lovely night of book club. Youre not making your parents proud by being rude and disruptive. We were happy to answer questions. Respect the people around you so they can hear. I bet you engage in Online Dating because youre impressing no one here to get a date in person. How many people have you catfished . People have you catfished . If you have medicare, listen up. The medicare enrollment deadline is only days away. With so many changes, do you know if your plan is still the right fit . 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Republicans seem to think their secret weapon is ohio congresswoman and trump tv regular, jim jordan whos been moved to the House Intelligence Committee so he can play a role in impeachment proceedings. This is who they thing is the best to run interference to President Trump he was a wrestling coach at Ohio State University in the 80s and 90s while they employed oo team doctor, richard strousz who killed himself in 2005 and found that strauss sexually abused students and that they turned a blind eye. Jim jordan vehemently denies he knew and three former wrestlers say it was Common Knowledge and one wrestler says he told jordan directly whats going on. And then a second person came forward to say he also talked to jordan. A referee saying in a lawsuit that he told jordan that doctor had performed a sex act in fronts of him in a shower. He says when he complained to jordan directly, they simply replied, yeah, thats strauss and that was it. In addition to college students, he prayed on a boy who was sexually abused while attending a wrestling camp. One of the wrestlers dismissed jordans claim he had no idea what strous was up to. He says at the end oof the day he is absolutely lying if he says he doesntb know what was going on. And part of the reason he is the Republican Point person is he has shown he will defend trump no matter what. Hes a figure head because he puts loyalty to the president basically above all else. Unless youre willing to be jim jordan, theres not much room for you in the modern gop trp congressman peter kane said he would not seek reelection next year. T seek reelection next year its time for the veterans day sale on the sleep number 360 smart bed. Can it help keep us asleep . Yes, it senses your movements and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. Save 1,000 on the new queen sleep number 360 special Edition Smart bed. Plus, 0 interest for 36 months. Ends monday. Is your business still settling for slow internet . Well time is money. Switch to comcast business now and get a great deal when you get fast, reliable internet. With a 30day moneyback guarantee, installation when it works for you, and 24 7 customer support. So what are you waiting for . Get this great deal when you sign up for fast, reliable internet. Call 18005016000 today. Comcast business. Beyond fast. Today congressman peter kane saying he wont run for reelection. Island district is the kind of district hes been recently struggling to hold. He won by just six points last year, which is the closest race hes had since he was reelected in 1992. Hes described as a rare moderate republican. He was one of the most notorious antimuslim biggets in all of congress. He said there quote too many nausk mosques in the country and called for a nation wide surveillance plan. His departure marks the 20th House Republican to decline a secret election in twept 20. Editer reports that when Trump Took Office in 2017 there were 241 republicans in the house. Since then 101 have been defeated left office or retiring in 2020. The party in general, the elected gop becoming trumpier in aev way. What does that mean . Margy, this is an interesting district because peter kings district went for obama romney, but swung big for trump plus nine over Hillary Clinton and peter king had a contested race. What do you see the Decision Making of king . Obama won this district twice. So this is a district thalts are been on the map for a while as one that could be a pick up opportunity for democrats and last time around he had a strong woman candidate who had this incredible video of a mom as young kids. She talked about being a mom in hevideo and she had this very contentious debate where he got testy with her and it was the kind of race where a lot of women won. It highlighted the opportunity for progressives and democrat to make clear contrast. What i see in the thinking of these folks are youre go having to to raise a lot of money, run a tough race. The demographics on the ground in the trump era makes it harder to win these place and you have to defend the president all the time. Like who wants it, honestly . 20 exoduses, i can understand the Decision Making. See i dont see this story what youre seeing with king and other republicans disconnected from the story you just ran about jim jordan. And you have a Republican Party thats almost cultish where youre defendic donald trump is the first and foremost priority. Defending him around things that a lot of these collegeeducated voters and wem in in tomen in t find indefensible. You keep our taxes low and keep us safe and well give you your vote. That is not that is beginning to erode, especially with the Republican Party turned first and foremost to defending trump. There is a priece to pay for suh a rural issue aculture because you did start to turn off suburban voters and nowhere is that a bigger problem than with guns in the suburbs vuses not the rural areas. If youre in the frontline for the republican, youve got to negotiate the fact that a lot of your voteers have frustrated feelings about the president , an energized opposition thats got raise money. And youve got to watch this primary piece. Kay granger basically drawing a primary challenger and going to have to run this contested race because shes insufficiently pro trump. Im not sure if thats part of the calculation for peter king but i think it is for other districts and you have lot more retirements on the republican than the democratic side. The gap is larger if youre looking at the most tossup districts. I think the next step is who is now running for those seats . And if a seats looks tough, then the folk whose have always wanted to the run are thinking this is not my year. So when you have a lot of republicans retiring because theyve decided its tough for them, theyre not necessarily going to be replaced by four, five different strong folks who run for that contested primary on the republican side. Likely 18 on the democratic side where we had lots of democrats in the trying to challenge republicans woo were excited to run for office. And i was watching the transformation of the party when you think of the 101 members. Whos going to run for a republican open seat . Whos motivated and lecture on the grass rootsz . Its going to be a very pro trump republican. Thats who is going to run in this environment and have a beat on an open republican primary. Frrms youre going to select for those kinds of candidates and legislatures. And im going to reach but i dontb think im reaching very far but this is where the chickens come home to roos around gerrymandering. Often times the only competition or competition is in the primary. So youre going to get the most radicalized, far rights trump republican is going to probably win that primary and in this age and time where the suburbs are particularly collegeeducated white voters turn, makes them harder to in facts win these competitive seats. But the gerrymandering does very much matter. Thank you both. Thank you. Before we go reminder that last stop this year is coming up. You should join me, the late kushner, there will be a conversation about story telling and spectsical in this insane moment in time. Its going to be a blast. For tickets go it to our website. Thatser a thatser all for this evening. Thatser all for this evening. The 11th hour with brian williams. Further conformation military aid was held up for political dirt on the bidens. As another story line emerges, Mick Mulvaney put a hold on the mulvaney put a hold on the aid to ukraine for fear of upsetting the russians. 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