Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. Even as more witnesses come before congress and the cast of characters grow, the central core facts of the ukraine story do not change. We know from documents the white house itself released and through statements by the president himself that the president of the United States corruptly abused the power of his office to coerce an occupied country into manufacturing dirt on his political opponent. The president of ukraine told trump he wanted to buy more american weapons. President trump responded i want to ask you a favor, though. That is what the whistleblower warned congress about, that is what led House Democrats to open an impeachment investigation into the president. What we learned from that investigation hasnt been any better for the president. The third current or former Trump Administration official testified as part of that investigation and it was another marathon session after former u. S. Ambassador to ukraine Marie Yovanovitch testified friday, fiona hill testified today for well, shes still going. Hill say fascinating figure. She was one of the foremost russia experts in the government. She was an Intelligence Officer with the National Intelligence council under president bush and president barack obama. She has written several books on russia, including a critical book on putin entitled mr. Putin. Russian and modern history from st. Andrews history in scotland. We dont know exactly what hill told congress today. She planned it say Rudy Giuliani and Eu Ambassador Gordon Sondland circumvented the National Security council for a shadow policy on ukraine. It shows again the scandal was not an offhand comment trump made on a phone call with ukraines president but a systematic strategy to use the tools of american state to gain assistance for donald trump in the 2020 election. Meanwhile we have this whole other part of this unfolding scandal. While congress is churning ahead, deposing witnesses, demanding documents and there are big deadlines and witnesses set to testify, the fbi arrested these two sovietborn american citizen businessmen last week on federal campaign corruption charges, just a few hours after those two men had lunch at a trump hotel with Rudy Giuliani, a man who essentially has taken on the role of the president s fixer. Giuliani appears to be the subject of a criminal investigation by the Southern District of new york. The office he once ran. Were learning more about giulianis links to these two sketchy businessmen, including bringing them to president george h. W. Bushs funeral last year and their own conflicts of interest immeshed. The other person fiona hill was expected to discuss today was ambassador sondland with that legend legendary, very normal text, the president has been crystal clear, no quid pro quos of any kind, trump even pointed to that text, incorrectly calling it a tweet, claiming he was innocent. When sondland testifies before house committees he will say that the content of that text message was relayed to him directly by President Trump. The president dictated his own cover story in the midst of the scandal. Big question today, what happened behind those closed doors with fiona hill . Those who attended her marathon testimony, member of the house intelligence committee. Congressman, i know you cant get into the details of what you heard today, but can you describe the testimony . In my seven years of congress i would candidly tell you, country, shes the most substantive witness ive observed before any committee and thats over the course of thousands of hours of testimony. Secondly, i believe the woman has an identic memory. If she doesnt have total recall its very close to it. Thirdly in the tenth hour, she had every bit as much energy as she had in the first hour. It sounds like she had a lot to say if shes still there. She did have an incredible amount to say. I would say about all three witnesses, chris, theyve added considerably to get to the bottom of this, the entire truth of how this happened with the president ending up doing a shakedown and a coverup of his blatant violation of federal law, asking president zelensky of ukraine to interfere in our 2020 president ial elections. Everyone has brought something new and different to the table, which has helped to bring in more clearer and stark relief what happened here, and it aint pretty. Im curious about the trajectory here. Kurt volker came and testified. He no longer worked for the state department. And Gordon Sondland, who was set to testify this week, was stopped at the last minute, in the middle of the night, white house says now. And Marie Yovanovitch coming before you. Fiona hill coming before you. Gordon sondland will come this week. Former number two to mike pompeo, Mike Mckinley is going to come. Whats happened here . Its striking to me that the white house, as much as its trying to stop people from talking to you or turn over documents, it looks like youre getting to talk to people. It feels like the dam is breaking. Right, chris . I thought the fact that mr. Mckinley agreed to come to talk with with us, the day after tomorrow, was significant. He has a career diplomat, has a depth of understanding of how diplomacy should work, has had the most significant diplomatic postings within the state department. I think well learn a lot from him. Again, i think were learning a lot from each and every one. How would you describe what youre learning . Also explain to me why are these being done as closed door depositions . Because theyre depositions, right . Were conducting this to the highest standards and the best practices of investigations. Were not in the public hearing portion of this yet. Well get there. But we what we dont want is for all of the witnesses, some of whom will be hostile, to coordinate with one another. That will impede us in our effort. I see. To get to the complete truth. I think thats what the American Public wants. Obviously theyll want to know all this information at some point. For the time being what they want us to do is get to the truth. And you feel like anything you have heard in this witness testimony has been exculpatory for the president or altered your thinking . Youre smiling but im asking because youre in there and im not. We keep getting asked the question in 923 different ways, what did she say to you . Of course, we cant answer. Ill reiterate that i think every Single Person has come before us, has added new information and given new depth to our understanding about what went on here. I think theres enough information in the Public Domain that as one member, i believe its clear that the president has committed impeachable offenses but every member is different and how it is they get to that point and whether or not they get to that point. Were not yet at the truth. As we know on an almost every 48 or 72hour basis, something new happens or some new information comes forward. Some of it in public and some of it during these depositions. And so were kind of trying to ask the question of ourselves, you know, at what point do you have everything . Yeah. Because we keep learning more. Final question, deadlines for document production this week, including, i believe, from the white house itself, which has said they will not cooperate. Do you have a plan in place for what to do if and when they do not turn over those documents . Chairman schiff has said it well. If they refuse to turn over the documents that, in and of itself, is an act of obstruction to an impeachment inquiry article i. Third article of the nixon impeachment was obstructing congress investigation. And secondly it would be a pretty clear, albeit, tacit, that theyre guilty of something, theyre hiding something. The shakedown and the coverup. And thats just part of the coverup. Congressmen denny heck, thank you very much. Youre welcome, sir. Two people who have been following this from the beginning, nick ackerman, former u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york and julie ioffe who wrote heres why ukraine pops up in so many u. S. Scandals. This is what the wall street journal says today. Federal prosecutors are investigating Rudy Giulianis business meetings. Investigators will also examined mr. Giulianis bank records. Is this as enormous a deal as it seems to be . Huge. Rudy giuliani was the u. S. Attorney in the Southern District of new york. He was my boss for six months. He was running that office. Dont forget, he was in every aspect of this ukrainian scandal. This is not something that just happened in july. This goes back to april, with the first conversation, and prior to april. Yeah. And the one person who is right in the middle of this entire program is Rudy Giuliani. Youve got to ask yourself, is he being investigated for violation of the hobbs act for extortion, is he being investigated for bribery, is he being investigated for campaign violation. Or foreign registration. Foreign registration is the least of his problems. Washington post says of Gordon Sondland key ambassador, that he will intend to testify that trump told him in the oval office that ukraine requests had to go through giuliani and that rudy wanted a written statement promising biden probe. Giuliani apparently is going to say sondland or says sondland was the one in charge. Giuliani is very clearly to me i want to hear your perspective on this, tied up in a world he doesnt understand. I think its ironic that this was the law and order mayor of new york, right . And he is now caught in unlawful and disorderly things, lets say. I think you get involved in a place like ukraine that is tremendously complicated, opaque, even people who are experts in the region have a problem. For one second ill tell folks that is fiona hill leaving her testimony, her deposition today. Its 8 11. I think she was in there about ten hours ago. Thats ten hours she stood in front of or sat in front of that committee and gave her deposition. Go ahead, julie. Fiona is a case in point. Even experts in the region have a hard time getting to the bottom of who stands behind whom. Exactly. Everybody isnt just what they appear to be. Theres a person behind a person, and then theres like a Shall Company behind that, and a Shall Company that owns that Shall Company. And by the time you figure it out its not often the person you thought you were dealing with, as f rechlt id, who designed the sanctions against russia for their you always have to know who is buying the drinks in ukraine and im not sure Rudy Giuliani did. The picture that emerges is Rudy Giuliani with a mission. We know what the mission is, right . Right. To go get dirt on hunter from the bidens from the Ukrainian Government and look into the origin of the mueller probe. Meeting with with with all sorts of people, advertising to them that the way that you can get close to the president of the United States is if you supply that to him. Exactly. Compromise. Right. And thats just when you think about the legal peril hes in there, its not that that itself is illegal. Its just that it seems to me you put yourself into some very dangerous, gray areas. Of course you do. Then you have mutt and jeff that were arrested the other day. One of them got 1 million from some russian we dont know about. Not named in the indictment. But what does that have to do with Vladimir Putin and whats putin doing in the 2020 election . This raises really serious questions. I dont want to include a cast of characters that makes people have a hard time following the story, but there are very clear links to a very russianbacked oligarch who is like one degree removed from rudy in all of this. Right but then theres the unnamed Russian National funneling money through brick and brack, or fruman and its all happening after the Mueller Investigation wrapped up and trump believed he was exonerated thanks to bill barr, who is also flying around the world, trying to gather similar dirt. Theres a lot of weird freelancing happening by people inside the government, outside the government and accountable to nobody. And doing things contrary what the u. S. Government does. An indictment charged to 12 russians for breaking into the Democratic National committee and the attorney general and former prosecutor going around, trying to get material, exculpatory information that, god forbid, they ever arrest these guys, theyll use to get out of the crime. Good point. Its outrageous. People wanted, especially on the republican side, to have somebody come in and run the country like a business. We have somebody running the company like he ran his personal business. Like he ran trump org. You go in the oval and trump is saying you have to go through rudy. This is the president of the United States. Rudy giuliani doesnt work for the american people, the taxpayer, he doesnt have a position. He is not accountable to anybody. This is run like the mafia. Thank you to you both. Spin out of control as the white house enters a brand new phase of damage control. Damage. Bleech aww awww its the easiest because its the cheesiest. Kraft for the win win. [woman] with my shark, i deep clean messes like this, this, and even this. But i dont have to clean this, because the selfcleaning brush roll removes hair while i clean. [announcer] shark, the vacuum that deep cleans now cleans itself. To the wait did frowe just winners. Prouders everyone uses their phone differently. Thats why Xfinity Mobile lets you design your own data. Now you can share it between lines. Mix with unlimited, and switch it up at anytime so you only pay for what you need. Its a different kind of Wireless Network designed to save you money. Save up to 400 a year on your wireless bill. Plus get 250 back when you buy an eligible phone. Call, click, or visit a store today. Before last sunday, the u. S. Policy in syria has been to partner with. U. S. Decided to work account kurds for a couple of reasons. Primarily they have an extraordinary fighting force that helped us push back and defeat isis territorial. Two, the kurdish presence helped to limit syrian, by extension russia and iran from getting too much influence. On the other side, nato allies with turkey. The u. S. Has tried, across multiple administrations, to manage this very complicated situation between the turks and the kurds so no one gets into a horrifying shooting war. To be clear, all of this was fraught as well help and no one knew the right way out. It was more or less, at least for the time being, working. And then came trumps phone call with turkish strongman erdogan last sunday after which trump, surprising just about everyone, suddenly announcing u. S. Troops would clear the area, home to 200 kurds, so turkey could attack, basically saying to turkey, have at it, announced a withdrawal of u. S. Troops. It was a shock to the state department, department of defense, u. S. Allies and pretty much everyone in the region, including those kurdish partners on the ground in the fight against isis who we suddenly abandoned. And the news since that decision has been well, its been horrifying. Syria escalated their operations, launching artillery rounds near a u. S. Outpost. The u. S. Will withdrawal all u. S. Troops from northern syria, 1,000 u. S. Troops moved out of the area over to iraq. Its difficult to confirm all the reports out of the region, video and photographs are circulating on social media that appear to show alleged atrocities carried out by turkish fighters. The kurds have now decided to cut a deal with syrian dictator bashir alassad for protection, extending his power throughout most of the territory. The situation with isis, Kurds Holding isis terrorists and allies in jails said clees cloes to 800 members of the camp had escaped after turkish shelling. United states had failed to transfer 5 dozen islamic detainees out of the country. Facing what is universally seen as a strategic and humanitarian disaster, trump is making noise about how hes going to get tough on turkey. Facing pressure from congress, ordering sanctions on turkish officials, Vice President mike pence out saying that trump called e. Are dogan asking him to stop the invasion, and that pence is going to turkey as soon as possible. Covering National Security in the new book shadow of the nations, isis. Youve been in this part of the region. I have, with the kurds. What does this military push mean for the stability and balance of power in the region . These were some of the most stable places in syria and where isis was the strongest. When the u. S. Came into syria and started working with the kurds, it was a disaster. Isis seemed unstoppable at the time. Through this partnership and more than 10,000 kurdish soldiers killed, they were able to stabilize. Kurds were able to control it and able to bring some semblance of order. Thats important because isis is not dead, no matter how trump says and how he defeated it. They are a threat in these areas. Theyve gone back to their roots as an insurgency. Kurds and american troops until eight days ago were working to roll up those networks and eliminate that threat. And now all of that is gone. When you say all that have is gone, first of all, it seems theres reporting today that all antiisis fighting from the coalition has essentially stopped. You mean the fighters will reconstitute again . Thats always been the risk. New york times had a report that there were still 18,000 isis fighters across iraq and seara. These are the guys fighting america during the iraq war. This is al qaeda. Their roots are insurgency. Theyve just gone back to that. You mentioned that it was a sticky situation. Everyone involved realized how sticky the situation was that, this partnership needed to continue because isis is still a major threat and needed to do counterinsurgency operations with the kurds to roll that up. Its over now, as you mentioned. Out of desperation, the kurds were part of the fighting forces against the Syrian Regime of Bashir Al Assad have turned to assad. Which means after going down to a quarter of syria with russian and iranian intervention, and now this moment, assad has reconstituted. Right. They were really clear eyed about what civil war means and they were careful not to get involved. They had an agreement with the regime from the beginning. Were going to control our areas but wont rebel against you. Because of that, isis attacked them. They control oil fields in the kurdish region. They control Oil Refineries and lots of valuable real estate. The war kind of came to them. And then partnership with the u. S. Began. And now the same soldiers that the u. S. Trained, armed, think about it this way from a counterintelligence standpoint. Soldiers who worked with the most elite United States military are now going to work with assad and russia and bring you all that knowledge with them and by force, with no other choice saying hey, please protect us. They dont have any leverage and what goes on after that. What do you think what happens now . I mean, i think the easiest thing to say, but the only certain thing we can say is chaos, right . And just this sort of put the warning out there that isis thrives in chaos. Its possible that the thousands of isis prisoners, including european foreign fighters escaped, its possible that the Syrian Regime takes them, not a trustworthy partner in counterterrorism, its possible these Turkish Forces take them, not at all trustworthy either. It was always an untenable situation. The bomb is defused as long as everyones hand is on it and eventually someone has to get up and leave the building. This is accelerating what would have been a disaster. Two things. First of all, there could have been a serious u. S. Effort to make some sort of acceptable agreement here and bring stability long term. So if the u. S. Had had any kind of diplomacy or strategy, they could have said hey, we control a force of 60,000 fighters in syria. We could be part of negotiations with the regime, turkey, to try to find some semblance for them long term and the second part of that, we didnt have to throw the bomb down right in front of ourselves. If there was going to be a u. S. Pullout, it could have been orderly. U. S. Troops are retreating. The News Headlines say retreat, turkishbacked forces, according to the u. S. Times, were firing on u. S. Troops as they were retreating. There was no planning whatsoever. Thats why all these worst Case Scenarios are playing out. Mike, thank you so much for being with me. Thanks for having me. Next, the situation continues to spiral, senator chris murphy is one of the best people to make sense of the fallout from the president s decision. He joins me after this. Decision he joins me after this i am the twisting thundercloud. I am royalty of racing, i am alfa romeo. Walkabout wednesdays are back get a sirloin or chicken on the barbie, fries, and a draft beer or cocacola all for just 10. 99. Hurry in wednesdays are for outback. Outback steakhouse. Aussie rules. Tto harrison, the wine tcollection. To craig, this rock. I leave these things to my heirs, all 39 million of you, on one condition. That you do everything to preserve and protect them. With love, california. As u. S. Turkish relations spiral downward, weapons are sitting on turk irk soil. The government is apparently trying to figure out how to get them out, according to reporting in the New York Times over the weekend state and Energy Department officials were quietly reviewing plans for evacuating roughly 50 Tactical Nuclear weapons the u. S. Had long stored under american control at Incirlik Air Base in trky, about 250 miles from the sear yab border. Those weapons are essentially now erdogans hostages. Democrat of the Foreign Relations committee, senator you and i both share some healthy skepticism of Foreign Policy consensus, particularly in the american era of endless war, but this does seem terrible whats going on. How bad is this from your point of view . I thought the most important point that mike giglio made in the prior segment was this was all avoidable. You and i do share this sense theres never been a plan from the start as to how the United States was going to unwind its intervention in syria, 2,000 troops was never permanently going to be able to stop the turks from moving in, but there absolutely was this opportunity, as mike pointed out, for a political process in which a u. S. Led effort would try to figure out which kurds the turks could live with in northeastern syria and which ones had to be moved somewhere else. We never even attempted to work that out. For long periods of time we had only one diplomat in northeastern syria. So, there was no chance to ultimately do anything than fight the turks ourselves or wave them through. Th this, to me, is so tragic, because all of it could have been avoidable, had trump decided to do the diplomatic work ahead of the american pullout. On the Nuclear Weapons point, obviously the relationship with turkey is fraught for a million Different Reasons and has been for a long time. Do you give credence to those reports . David sanger piece in the New York Times, does that worry you . It does. Listen, we do have to step back and assess what kind of Security Partnership were willing to have with the turks. This is the latest in what has been a long series of moves by the turks that suggest they dont really want to be in a longterm mutual defense relationship with the United States. Beginning of the syria conflict, we were begging the turks to shut down the border because they were actively waving through isis personnel and resources into syria so they could create problems for the Syrian Regime and the kurds frchlt the beginning of this conflict theres been real questions as to whether the turks are serious about about being in business with us and whether its the Nuclear Weapons, arms sales or nato membership we do have taupe back and have some wholesale conversation about our relationship. One of the weird things thats happening here, we saw that statement put up after the call by erdogan took everyone by surprise. Literally, i dont think anyone saw that coming. It basically said look, they have a green light. Were going to move our troops out of position so they can go in. Theres this weird overcompensation happening now where the president is like hes going to destroy their economy, hiking steel tariffs, withdrawing the remaining u. S. Troops from syria, going to he wants to sanction them. Right. Lindsey graham is working on sanctions. I dont know what sense to make of this very strange after effect anger being directed. Yeah. Its sort of the much more monstrous equivalent of telling your kid that he can stay out past curfew and then when he comes back after cure ffew, you ground him for three months. He announced the invasion before turkey announced it sunday night. He grlt green lit this invasion and now is panicking because he found out absolutely no one in the republican party, Democratic Party or foreign establishment that thinks what he did is a good idea and its turning out to be just as horrible and horrific as what we said it was going to be. Now youre going to get the worst of all worlds. Right. The kurds getting in bed with assad, humanitarian catastrophe on the ground, ad hoc sanctions that will push the turks closer to axis with iran, splintered nato. None of that is good for the United States and it all could have been avoided. Youre getting the worst of all worlds now. I want to ask you a question about ukraine. You have been, as a u. S. Senator, quite invested in the u. S. ukrainian relationship. You visited there with the late john mccain there. We talked to you after coming back from one of those trips. As you watch this, do you have moments you go oh, now i understand things that were weird to me at the time . Yeah. Listen, as you know i was the first person to raise questions about this back in the spring and we were worried from the very beginning that there was this quid pro quo relationship and we now know that it, indeed, did exist. You know, weve also wondered from the very beginning, you know, why the state department or diplomatic core basically had been left unstaffed. And i think part of the reason were figuring out is that the president wanted to do his own side deals. His own side deals that had, at its foundation, political interests. Thats harder to do if you have smart career Public Servants doing your diplomacy. If you get rid of those folks and have no acting ambassador for ukraine or european affairs, its easier for political hacks like Rudy Giuliani to be able to fill that void. That makes more sense to me now. Senator chris murphy as always, thanks for making time. Still ahead why National Polling may not be telling the whole story in the democratic race. Dark horse coming up. Plus tonights thing one, thing two starts next. One, thing two starts next. Which, every day, generate enough electricity to power over 150,000 homes. And of course, fowler. At bp, we see possibilities everywhere. And of course, fowler. Governot just the powerful and wellconnected. Thats the american promise. But big corporations and special interests are in control. Nothings happening for real people. Our democracy has been purchased. The candidates running for president have great ideas. But we cant get anything done unless we make our democracy serve the people again. Im tom steyer. I approve this message. Im running for president because its time our democracy works for people. Mmacrame obviously. Wanna go to the gym . Uh, its too expensive. Actually, our Unitedhealthcare Medicare plans come with renew active, a gym membership and more, at no extra cost. Im not a workout kinda guy. You get a personalized fitness plan. Im exercising my brain. And an online brain health program. 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We talked about Donald Trumps cozy relationship with the saddies. On his very first overseas trip as president , saudi arabia. I think everyone remembers from that visit is the orb. Trump, king salman and the egyptian president all gathered around it and kept their hands on it for nearly two minutes, like they were summoning dark forces or something. Something else happened on that trip that didnt get enough attention. Sawed a arabias really not great military band. Vladimir putin arrived in riyadh today for a state visit. Let me tell you, the band has not improved. Thats thing two. The band has not improved thats thing two the mist crept into the pivot hole beside her. Youre late. David what did you think of the book . Its a. Masterstroke of. Heartache. Brutality. And redemption. You didnt read it, did you . I didnt. But i will. The lexus nx, modern utility for modern obstacles. Lease the 2020 nx 300 for 349 month for 36 months. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. I get it all the time. Have you lost weight . Of course i have ever since i started renting from national. Because national lets me lose the wait at the counter. And choose any car in the aisle. And i dont wait when i return, thanks to drop go. At national, i can lose the wait. And keep it off. Looking good, patrick. I know. vo go national. Go like a pro. Vladimir putin in saudi arabia was greeted with pomp and circumstance. They made him walk down a mile of carpet. Putin didnt arrive empty handed, he brought along a russian falcon for the king, young female named alpha. Woopsy daisy. That will happen with live anim animals. Ceremonial playing of the Russian National anthem not at all improved Saudi National band whose motto is we never at all practice. wheels screeching clapping sound of can hitting bag and bowl clapping always there in crunch time. And i recently had hi, ia heart attack. It changed my life. But im a survivor. After my heart attack, my doctor prescribed brilinta. Its for people who have been hospitalized for a heart attack. Brilinta is taken with a lowdose aspirin. No more than 100 milligrams as it affects how well brilinta works. Brilinta helps keep platelets from sticking together and forming a clot. In a clinical study, brilinta worked better than plavix. Brilinta reduced the chance of having another heart attack. Or dying from one. Dont stop taking brilinta without talking to your doctor, since stopping it too soon increases your risk of clots in your stent, heart attack, stroke, and even death. Brilinta may cause bruising or bleeding more easily, or serious, sometimes fatal bleeding. Dont take brilinta if you have bleeding, like stomach ulcers, a history of bleeding in the brain, or severe liver problems. Slow heart rhythm has been reported. Tell your doctor about bleeding new or unexpected shortness of breath any planned surgery, and all medicines you take. If you recently had a heart attack, ask your doctor if brilinta is right for you. 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Side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyebrow, eyelid drooping, and eyelid swelling. Tell your doctor about your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications including botulinum toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. So, give that just saw a puppy look. And whatever that look is. Look like you. With fewer lines. See results at botoxcosmetic. Com over the last few weeks as impeachment has dominated the news and this show ive been watching with increasing horror and bafflement as the nba, for fear of offending the Chinese Government and basketball fans. After a single tweet in support of the hong kong supporters, the nba has scrambled to lock down any other signs of criticism of the Chinese Government, hoping to keep access to a lucrative sport. Choosing the path of least resistance, quite familiar in the news because its what so Many Republican members of congress do every day, when confronted with the bigotry, by the man who is head of their party. It is not limbed to them. Insidious force of path of least resistance is everywhere you look. I feel the tug of it myself as my own News Organization is embroiled in a very public controversy over its conduct. In his new book catch and kill, ronan farrow says that msnbc slow walked and killed his reporting on Harvey Weinsteins Sexual Harassment and assault. Farrow suggests nbc news was worried about Sexual Harassment and assault by matt lauer coming out and desperately wanted to avoid that. In farrows view he was unable to break through what was effectively a conspiracy of silence from nbc news management. Nbc news vigorously denies this account. President of nbc news called farrows book a Conspiracy Theory in a memo sent out today, citing an internal nbc news investigation, saying that the allegations against lauer were not known. Since farrows departure two years ago, the weinstein story was never broadcast because it lacked sufficient on the record sourcing even after nbc supported farrows assignment for seven months. One thing, though, is indisputable. Ronan farrow walked out and within two months published an incredible article that not only won a pulitzer but help aid social reckoning that continues to this day. Its the kind of journalism that you want to do as a journalist, that everyone who works in this business should want to facilitate. Of course theres a reason it took so long for the true story about weinstein to be told, many allegations to stay locked in a vault. Time and again the path of least resistance for those of power was not to Cross Weinstein or his army of friends and lawyers. Same goes for the many, many, many other powerful predators weve come to know about. The path of least resistance is always there. Beckoning seductively, youve got bigger fish to fry. This isnt the hill to die on. The story isnt ready. Its the very ease of that path that makes it the enemy to the kind of work we, as journalists, are supposed to do. S journalist, are supposed to do together well reduce emissions and Landfill Waste by turning garbage into jet fuel. At bp, we see possibilities everywhere. By turning garbage into jet fuel. [truck horn blares] vo the subaru forester. Dog tested. Dog approved. Subaru establishes National Make a dogs day. Do Something Special for your dog. Billions of problems. Sore gums . Bleeding gums . Painful flossing . Theres a therabreath for you. Therabreath healthy gums oral rinse fights gingivitis and plaque and prevents gum disease for 24 hours. So you can. Breathe easy, theres therabreath at walmart. alarm beeping welcome to our busy world. Where we all want more energy. But with less carbon footprint. Can we have both . At bp, were working every day to make energy thats cleaner and better. And we see possibilities everywhere. Tomorrow night, a record 12 Democratic Candidates running for president will appear on one stage in the fourth debate in this primary race. The last debate was about a month ago, and over the course of that month, the race has changed in some fundamental ways, and in some fundamental ways it has not. One fundamental way it has not changed is that Vice President joe biden hasnt really lost support. Hes basically been more or less flat over the past month. What has changed is that senator Elizabeth Warren has gained support, and the two of them, indisputely in the polling average are basically tied. Now everyone is wondering what their dynamic will be like meeting each other as essentially tied for the first time. A better thing to keep in mind is there is still a ton of movement, for changes beyond just National Polling, particularly if you logistic at, say, iowa. In a poll this weekend, iowa is a threeway dead heat with mayor Pete Buttigieg putting up a solid number in fourth place. Its easy to forget how much an early victory can alter peoples perceptions of these race, especially when youre this many months out. Well talk about the dynamics going into tomorrow nights debate, i want to bring in strategist margie omeara, and snyder. The polling seems to show one thing indisputably. Warren is growing. She has picked up support. She has enlarged her coalition. She still hases on calls. Right now can she essentially take some of those biden voters away . Is that how you see it . Youre right. There has been a trend where shes gained steam over the last few weeks and months. I think we should caution. I know you mentioned this, but i just want the caution again is you have a lot of democratic primary voters who are still making up their mind. Yep. Even those who say they have a choice, about half of them say they could change their mind. And even that may change. Even that number may change as things evolve and whether were talking about iowa polling and whats happening in iowa is different than whats happening nationally. And you have a lot of voters who are still waiting to see and learn more from the candidates and see what happens once we start voting. So i want the start with that but, yeah, as i see it, certainly the trend where warren on the move is something that weve seen now for a while, and well see if that continues over the next few weeks. Elena, there has been an interesting dynamic with this race in that sanders and Elizabeth Warren are fairly close to each other idealogically. They represent similar wings of the party, although their surrogates have been going at each other a little bit recently. There is some wonder about the degree to warrens rise is coming at sanders expense. I thought this i also having interviewed both of them and knowing both of them fairly well, they do genuinely like each other as people. They have a good relationship. I thought this quote from Bernie Sanders was fascinating. I want to get your sense how these two campaigns are thinking about each other. This is what sanders had to say sunday on abc. Elizabeth warren has been a friend of mine for some 25 years, and i think she is a very, very good senator. But there are differences between elizabeth and myself. Elizabeth i think as you know has said that she is a capitalist through her bones. Im not. This what do you make of that comment . Well, what i make of it is even though we are still four months away from iowa, were four months away from iowa, and candidates are starting to run out of time. And Bernie Sanders in particular has been through a really difficult couple of weeks. He suffered a heart attack. This debate is going to be the first time where hell be back on stage after a real Serious Health scare. And i think he is seeing his poll numbers continue to slowly chip away, slowly fall heading in a direction he does not want to see them go both nationally and in iowa, and somewhere where he feels he is leaking or bleeding some support is to Elizabeth Warren. As you noted at the top, has suddenly risen in the polls. Even though they certainly do have a very cordial relationship, that by and large those two have not actually gone up against each other, theyve been sort of a tag team in defense of progressive policies, that i think in this debate we might start to see them go after each other. My hunch is that that wont happen, at least not yet, although anything is possible. I think whats interesting about that quote from sanders is oh, she is a capitalist, which i imagine Elizabeth Warren saying oh, dont throw me in that briar patch. Dont call me capitalist running for president in 2019. There is also a fact, marjorie, when you look at that iowa polling which is a really good remind other telephone threeway races, there is a really good tie. Things in these narratives change so quickly. I remember howard dean was going win iowa and john kerry won it and ran the table. I remember how barack obama was going to win every other state and Hillary Clinton won New Hampshire in 2008 and it was an extended win. It does strike me as we focus on the National Polling for the dynamics of the race, the significance of iowa being that close i think hasnt quite set in with people about where the stand where the race actually stands. Right. The other thing is iowa is a state where people have organizations on the ground. Right. Theyre out meeting voters. Theyre on the air. Thats not the same as whats happening nationally. You have more candidates making more connections in iowa in some way than you do nationally. So its important to remember that. And weve only had a couple of polls since labor day. Thats different from the National Polling landscape outlet. And the last thing, were thinking about whos second choice is we dont have a lot of public tools that give us the ability to really look at which candidate polls from whomever, and people are looking at the overall trendlines. But when you a National Poll and a subsample of, that thats democratic primary voters nationally, then you dont have enough respondents for a lot of these candidates to see right. Who is second choice. There are a couple of places you can see that publicly. But we just are not able to have that kind of granular work from the public polling. Obviously internal polls have different ways of doing that. Also, Pete Buttigieg this week has been somewhat interesting. He had a line in an interview about fundraising where he said you cant beat republicans with chump change, talking about, i think, Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren who have raised huge amounts of money through small dollar donors. It does seem to me that buttigieg has his eyes on basically fashioning himself authentically to who he is as a nonsanders warren alternative who is also not biden. Ele elena . I think he is leaning hard into being that middle ground. Right. Somewhere between the spectrum of biden and warren and bernie. But 00 loo, i think an important point for buttigieg is not only has he really leaned into both, he has been the darling of high dollar fundraisings and donors, certainly has leaned into that element of the Democratic Party that both warren and sanders have rejected, but he also has a very robust small dollar donor network. He averaged 32 last quarter, and Elizabeth Warren averaged 26. Thats not a huge difference between the two of them. And he has been able to grow that Grassroots Network and sort of run a dual high and lowdollar program. Certainly maybe he wants to draw some contrasts between himself and sanders and warren both on the money front and on Health Care Policy of late. But look, he is sort of leaning into both in his own campaign. All right, margie omer ra. You folks looking for something fun to do on a monday night this time next week . Ill be getting ready to take the stage in downtown l. A. With adam mckomar el akkad. If youre passionate about climate change, i think youre going to love this conversation. Tickets are available now, msnbc. Com with pod tour. Rachel maddow starts right now. Good evening. Thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. So lev and igor have been freed from jail. It was a dramatic twist in the impeachment proceedings against President Trump last week on thursday morning when we learned that these two gentlemen had been indicted by a grand jury and arrested wednesday night at Dulles Airport as they attempted to board an international flight. The u. S. Attorney of new york said that the two men had oneway tickets to leave the country. That apparently sped up the process by which they were indicted. The indictment was filed by the grand jury on wednesday. They were arrested on wednesday night at dulles. Thursday morning that indictment was unsealed and soon thereafter we got these now indelibly memorable mug shots