Democrat wins in ohio, michigan, or give me a name. I like tim ryan in ohio, and i like my mayor out of palm beach out of miami in florida. Nick, katherine, harold, that will do it for hardball. Chris matthews is back here on monday. All in with chris hayes starts right now. Tonight on all in. He wanted to have dinner because he wanted to stay on. Dinner with comey. He mentioned that he had been invited to the white house to have dinner with the president and that he was uneasy with that. New reporting contradicting the president s claims. And tonight, new questions about oval office recordings. Did President Trump record his conversations with former fbi Director Comey . As the president threatens his former fbi director with tapes. Plus, as the Deputy Attorney general reportedly signals no special prosecutor should we do the pledge . Raise your hand. Who else was asked to take the donald trump pledge . Then david cay johnston. And my extended interview with senator Elizabeth Warren. The American People want us to get to the bottom of this. When all in starts right now. Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. It certainly seemed like a threat. President trump today sending a warning shot to his former fbi director, tweeting james comey better hope that there are no tapes of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press. Asked if the president had secretly recorded his conversations with comey, who was leading the fbi investigation into possible collusion between the Trump Campaign and russia until trump fired him on tuesday, White House Press secretary sean spicer today pointedly did not rule out the possibility. Did President Trump record his conversations with former fbi Director Comey . I assume youre referring to the tweet, and ive talked to the president. The president has nothing further to add on that. Why did he say that . Why did he tweet that . What should we interpret from that . As i mentioned, the president has nothing further to add on that. Are there Recording Devices in the oval office or in the residence . As i said, for the third time, there is nothing further to add on that. Does he think its appropriate to threaten someone like mr. Comey not to speak . I dont think thats thats not a threat. He simply stated a fact. The tweet speaks for itself. Im moving on. Im hoping you can answer this in a yes or no fashion. Is the president of the United States currently recording conversations take is place in the oval office . I think the point i made with respect to the tweet is the president has no further comment on this. The last time a president who fired the people investigating his conduct was revealed to have secret tape recordings, things did not end well. That got there. Mmhmm. Because i didnt ask that question. Mmhmm. What about the idea that in a tweet you said that there might be taperecordings . Well, that i cant talk about. I wont talk about that. All i want is for comey to be honest, and i hope he will be, and im sure he will, i hope. Joining me now is john dean, former white House Counsel to president richard nixon, who knew a thing about taping things in the white house. John, i cant tell if this is a distraction or a fib or a bluff, but your reaction to the pointed nondenial both from sean spicer and the president himself about taping people in the oval office . It is very hard to believe that hes actually got any kind of formal equipment to record in the oval office. The only thing that occurred to me was if hes capable and understands how to turn on his Recording Device on his smartphone, he might have had that on when they were having dinner. But i dont i just cant imagine any president commencing a taping operation in the Oval Office Given what happened to nixon. I just its so imprudent, and it was so costly, and it ultimately comes out. We should say that theres a history of donald trump dabbling in surveillance. Two great pieces in buzzfeed, inside Donald Trumps Surveillance Operations and sources donald trump listened in on phone lines at maralago. Although that said, i think the imprudence here is pretty clear. Let me ask you this. Theres also a degree to which the white house seems to be having a hard time getting their story straight in a fundamental way. What do you make of that . Well, it seems they have a president who is out of control, who moves at his own strokes. He doesnt brief his staff on what hes going to do, doesnt talk it through with them and do any kind of planning. He has no sense of really how the presidency operates and how to effectively do these things. Eventually hes going to get burned so many times, he will figure it out. But the Learning Process is just one eruption and more chaos every week and chasing down lies. Its really quite striking. Earlier today, sean spicer said that the president is very clear. He believes the notion theres collusion is a hoax. Its been reaffirmed by several people including senator grassley. Later in the day senator glassrys spokesperson says he has not spoken to President Trump but what hes learned related to investigations into interference referred to the notion of collusion as a hoax. So every time they sort of try to cite some authority outside of their sphere, it gets knocked down, it appears. Thats true. And, chris, in the end, what caught nixon was not some blatant criminal act. He was caught in a lie after he hung himself out on a position, took a Firm Position month after month on it, and then finally got caught in the lie, thats when he really had to end his presidency. What lie was that operating procedure from his business days. Im surprised he didnt ask him to sign a noncompete or a nondisclosure of some sort, to fill it out. But i think, you know, its a combination of the ignorance and arrogance as i see it. All right. John dean, thanks as always for your time. Thank you. Joining me now, matthew miller, former aide to Attorney General eric holder and Justice Department spokesperson and clint watts. Matthew, let me start with you. Something you said earlier today. You said one thing i learned at doj about comey, he leaves a protective paper trail whenever he deems something inappropriate happened. Stay tuned. What did you mean by that . There was this kind of remarkable incident that started in 2005 when the Bush Administration was debating whether to approve torture or not, waterboarding and other torture techniques. And jim comey had a meeting with the Attorney General and he, along with others, approved those techniques but apparently told the Attorney General that he thought it was a bad idea to actually use them and it would end up being embarrassing to the country and the administration. After that, he went back to his office and wrote an email to his chief of staff, which, you know, Deputy Attorneys general dont usually do that. He wrote this long email explaining the conversation. It was basically the modernday version of a memo to the file. And in 2009 when the New York Times reported that comey and others had authorized these techniques, magically they got their hands on this email, and i think what i took from that event was comey had the foresight to write that email, and then when he left the Justice Department, to print it out, put it in a file, and hold on to it until four years later when the times went to write on this and magically they got a hold of it. So i think were going to see more of that from him in this instance. That is a remarkable story. Clint, i guess the question we have this dinner, and weve got a sort of he said he said situation. The president of the United States and people close to jim comey. Who do you believe . Im going to go with track record, which is fbi Director Comey since just based on today, i have no idea if theres any truth to anything President Trump said. It doesnt make any sense to make that Loyalty Pledge. Any president that understood the relationship of the fbi, the Department Of Justice to the president and their role, which is to the public first, to serve the public first, its fidelity, bravery, integrity. Thats the motto of the fbi. Director comey is going to follow that. Hes not going to respond well to being pressured like that. Even having the invite to dinner, which you heard Director Clapper talk about, made him uncomfortable. Hes going to have issue with that, and every time trump, i think, tried to bring him under his umbrella, comey would naturally push himself away. So you dont think that he requested the dinner . You dont think thats plausible . No, not at all. The president said twice now he said it in interviews with lester hold, and he said it in the letter famously in which he fired Director Comey that the director told him three times he was not under investigation. Could you conceive of any plausible scenario in which that might have happened . No. I cant imagine why the director would say that other than his testimony where he confirmed that they had some active investigation going on with his campaign. Thats the only time he did that, and Director Comey is particularly careful, as we just heard with his words. Hes not going to make these statements which put him in a position of his own compromise. Given comeys level of skill in navigating this that you have identified, matt, and its really a remarkable thing to go back and look at his 2007 testimony when he talked about that famous night at the bed of john ashcroft. He has an ability to preserve his reputation amidst many controversial things. What do you anticipate the next chapter of this story is . Well, i mean, look what weve seen in just the last 24 hours. Weve already seen leaks about this loyalty request. Weve already seen leaks about the request for the dinner came from trump. Weve seen a number of pieces of information already. But i think given look, he does like the spotlight. Thats one thing about him that i think people in both parties agree with. I suspect that we will eventually see comey at that table in a congressional hearing with the lights on and the cameras rolling again as he did in 2007 and as he did on march 20th when he confirmed this investigation and, i think, started the chain of events that led to him eventually being fired. I think thats probably where this all ends up. Thats a great point. We know that hes declined an invitation for a closed session with the intelligence committee, i think the Senate Intelligence committee. But you also think that ultimately we will see james comey giving his side of the story under oath before congress . Yeah, and i also think for Director Comey, he would turn down a closed session because he would rather be in an open session. I mean his thats interesting. That is interesting. His pattern is to come out and talk to the american public. Sure is. Hes done this repeatedly. If i were in his position, thats exactly what i would do. No closed door. No rumors going back and forth. Right. No leaks coming out about what you said. No. Whatever i actually say is going to be coming out of my mouth, and youre going to thats why you think he turned down the invite for the closed door session . I think its both that and he wants time. He wanted to see how this is going to play out. There was reporting about that being turned down because the message was sent because he probably wouldnt get a particularly warm reception after what happened. What do you think the mood is there right now . Well, it was dumb to ever think he should go to the fbi headquarters. Thats just a very novice white house staff. Weve already tried that at the cia. We saw how that went with trump. Now to go to the fbi and try and talk to them or sway them and win them over is a disaster. I think the mood right now theyre going to be extra vigilant in their independence. Theyre going to pursue the investigation the way it should, to its logical conclusion. And i think theyre also trying to figure out how they can insulate themselves against the doj, that you cant really tell how biased they are or not. So much comes down to Rod Rosenstein right now. Matthew, you were on this show the day that comey had the Press Conference about hillary clinton, in which he opined about how careless she was. Derogatory information about a person not charged is the phrasing of Rod Rosenstein in the letter condemning comey. What do you make of people now coming around to that conclusion . Well, if everyone came around to that conclusion for legitimate means, then fine. But lets be honest. Thats not why Rod Rosenstein wrote that memo. Thats not why jim comey was fired. That was an excuse to fire him for something else. I think actually, you know, you expect this kind of thing from donald trump. You even expect it from Jeff Sessions. The person that im most disappointed in and that if you talk to anyone else that worked at the Department Of Justice, theyre more disappointed in, is Rod Rosenstein. He was suppose to be the snushlgist that would protect the department from political interference, and he completely buckled to pressure and gave donald trump the excuse he needed to fire jim comey. You feel the same way . Yeah. Its interesting that comey once had rosensteins job, and that was with the ashcroft scenario. When he did the opposite. He did the opposite. He chose country over party. It doesnt look that way this week. Matthew miller and clint watts thank you for being here tonight. Ahead, who else has been asked to take the trump Loyalty Pledge . More on President Trumps obsession with loyalty and how republicans are still in congre still falling in line after this break. Strut past that aisle for the Allergy Relief that starts working in as little as 30 minutes and contains the best oral decongestant. Live claritin clear, with claritind. Youre going to be hanging out in here. So if you need anything, text me. Do you play . Use the chase mobile app to send money in just a tap, to friends at more banks then ever before. You got next . Chase. Helping you master whats now and whats next. I need the phone thats where i happen to be. To be the one that rings. I need not to be missed phone calls. To not be missed. I need seamless handoff. Canyon software. From reception, to landline, to mobile. I need one number. Not two. Im always moving forward. Because i cant afford to get stuck in the past. Comcast business. Built for business. I read that article. I dont think its inappropriate number one. Did you ask that question . No. No, i didnt. But i dont think it would be a bad question to ask. I think loyalty to the country, loyalty to the United States is important. You know, i mean it depends on how you define loyalty, number one. Number two, i dont know how that got there. Mmhmm. Because i didnt ask that question. The president denies asking fired fbi director james comey to take a Loyalty Pledge, but that account first relayed to the New York Times by Comey Associates has a ring of truth if for no other reason than we know how much this president puts a premium on loyalty. Here was Kellyanne Conway in an interview yesterday. The president expects people who are serving in his administration to be loyal to the country and to be loyal to the administration. Dont forget the president even made his own supporters swear loyalty to him during the campaign. Raise your right hand, everybody. Do you swear that youre going to vote for donald trump tomorrow . Raise that hand. I love you. I love you. All right. You cant go back. The president has also demanded the utmost loyalty from republican lawmakers and by and large theyve submitted. We saw house intelligence chairman devin nunes scrambling to do the white houses bidding, an embarrassing episode that forced him eventually to recuse himself from the russia probe. Then theres House Oversight chairman jason chaffetz, who has largely refused to investigate the Trump Administration, for example, telling reporters in february the Flynn Situation was, quote, taking care of itself. Only a week earlier, chaffetz himself had been summoned to the white house for an intimate Oval Office Meeting with the president. Im joined now by linda chavez. Linda, do you find behavior of republicans this week surprising . I find it both surprising and disheartening because frankly the only way that this president is going to be stopped from doing the things hes doing, which are irrational, erratic, and dangerous, is for republicans to march up Pennsylvania Avenue and to say to him, stop it. You have got to stop this, mr. President. He is endangering his own agenda. He is endangering the Republican Party, and ultimately hes endangering the country. The Republican Leaders that have essentially given him cover this week and paul ryan and Mitch Mcconnell among many others, theyre reflecting the republican base. I mean so far as polling indicates. 79 of republicans approve of comeys firing. 84 give him a high approval rating. Arent they just basically listening to their voters in their base . Well, first of all, you know, everyone whos in office takes an oath of loyalty, but that oath of loyalty is to defend and protect the constitution of the United States. It is not to the office holder. It is not to the president of the United States. And all of these officials, i think, are ignoring that they cant simply look at Public Opinion polls, hold their finger up in the wind to see which way the political winds are blowing, and act accordingly. Theyve got to do whats right. And frankly, i mean, what is so mysterious about this whole event this week is that last week was a pretty good week for the president and for the republicans and their agenda. They got a Health Care Bill passed, which regardless of what you think about it, was certainly an achievement. They did get it passed, yes. They got it passed. And they were starting to take on tax reform. They were making changes in other, you know, programs, dealing with the trade issue, talking about renegotiating nafta. There was a whole lot on the president ial agenda. But this president seems to have a way of stepping on his own good news. He can never just let good news play out. He has to create a mess that then diverts attention away from what ought to be his focus. I wonder if i have a theory about republican behavior, and id like to get your feedback on it. You remember the access Hollywood Tape when which the president boasted about serially sexually assaulting women, touching them without consent. Right. And there were a lot of republicans who freaked out when that happened and said theyre not going to defend him. They said that either in private or public. Then they thought this was the end, the guy is melting down. Then he didnt and he became president of the United States. How much do you think that experience is now seared into the minds of every republican that no matter how bad it looks, dont get off the train . Well, i think thats right. I mean you remember the president famously saying he could walk down fifth avenue and shoot somebody, and he wouldnt lose support. But, again, thats whats so worrisome. Youre supposed to have courage when youre an elected official, and these guys just dent haont that kind of courage. I think its going to destroy the Republican Party. If we dont see a change, if we dont get back to having the Republican Party stand for something and not just stand for donald trump, but stand for principles, one of which is the rule of law, you know, this administration and President Trump could do himself a whole lot of favor by just saying, we believe in the rule of law. We believe in the resources of the fbi. We believe that theyre going to get to the bottom of this investigation. And were going to ignore it until theyre finished with that investigation, and were just going to move forward with our agenda. If the president were capable of doing that, the country would be a whole lot better off and certainly the Republican Party would be. I definitely agree on the latter. Linda chavez, thank you very much. Thank you. Coming up, the president presents what he think is proof that he has no russian business ties with a few exceptions. Thats a quote. David cay johnston will join me to factcheck that claim ahead. New roads and bridges. New mass transit. New business friendly environment. New lower taxes. And new University Partnerships to grow the businesses of tomorrow today. Learn more at esd. Ny. Gov brtry new Flonase Sensimists. Allergy relief instead of Allergy Pills. It delivers a gentle mist experience to help block six key inflammatory substances. Most Allergy Pills only block one. New Flonase Sensimist changes everything. Oscar mawe went back toig the drawing board. And the cutting board. We removed the added nitrates and nitrites, byproducts, and artificial preservatives in all of our meat. Every. Single. One. Why . For the love of hot dogs. Can you tell us whether you, your family, your businesses, your surrogates have accepted any investments, any loans from russian individuals . Yeah. In fact, i just sent a letter to Lindsey Graham from one of the most prestigious law firms in the country, a tremendous, highly rated law firm, that i have nothing to do with russia. And i have a certified letter just so you understand. Im not just saying that. The white house released that certified letter today from the same law firm that participated in trumps First Press Conference as President Elect when he said he was handing over leadership of his company to his sons surrounded by prop stacks of legal papers. What his certified letter does and does not say about the president s ties to russia next. Termites, feasting on homes 24 7. Were on the move. Roger. Hey rick, all good . Oh yeah, were good. Were good. Termites never stop trying to get in, we never stop working to keep them out. Terminix. Defenders of home. We rbut we are not victims. Ack. We are survivors. We are survivors. We are survivors. And now we take brilinta. For people whove been hospitalized for a heart attack. 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If you cant afford your medication, astrazeneca. May be able to help. P3 planters nuts, jerky and whaseeds. At . I like a variety in my protein. Totally, thats why i have this uh trail mix. Wow minty. P3 snacks. The more interesting way to get your protein. Working on my feet all day gave me pain here. In my knees. So i stepped on this machine and got my number, which matched my dr. Scholls custom fit orthotic inserts. So i get immediate relief from my foot pain. My knee pain. Find a machine at drscholls. Com. Itthe power of nexium 24hr protection from frequent heartburn. All day, and all night. Now packed into a pill so small, we call it mini. New clearminis from nexium 24hr. See heartburn differently. President trumps Legal Counsel has written a letter to him which attempts to sum up the president s financial ties to russia based on ten years of tax returns, the same tax returns the president refuses to make public. The letter says that with a few exceptions, the president doesnt have financial entanglements with russia. Those exceptions according to the letter, includiing the 2013 Miss Universe pageant in moscow, the sale to a russian fertilizer king. Now, there are some striking aspects to the letter. For instance, it was dated march 8th, two months ago, we dont know why. We also dont know why it was written to the president as opposed to the fbi or congress or someone else, particularly since the president then forwarded the letter to senator Lindsey Graham of the Senate Judiciary committee to show he has no financial ties to russia. Joining me now, julia yaffy, National Security and Foreign Policy reporter for the atlantic, and Pulitzer Prize winning investigative reporter, david cay johnston, author of the making of donald trump. I want to start with you, david, and read you a series of tweets from john cook that i thought perfectly illustrated the issue here. You know whose tax returns didnt show Equity Investment . Gawker medias. Of course gawker did receive a substantial investment from a new york llc called Columbus Nova, and Columbus Nova is an Investment Vehicle for a russian pollu pluto craft. Is that the number of the problem with the letter . Yeah. Clever letter, but it is entirely deceptive, and i must say i admire sheri dillon and the lawyers at morgan lewis who wrote it for their skill at deception. But this is absolute nonsense. Just as a simple example, if i set up a company tomorrow in the uk and called it chris hayes, inc. , and gave money to a british politician, i could say theres no british money. Right. Right. Thats right. So anything that would happen and, julia, youve reported a lot about russia and particularly about the sort of russian oligarchs and, you know, this is true of very wealthy people the globe over, which is that they dont move their money around in their own name. They move it through vehicles that are anonymous and localized and dont have anything to do often with the country they live in. Is that true generally of russian oligarchs . Absolutely, and its done with a very clear or very clear reasons. First of all, its to get themselves and their companies established else where in areas with fair and independent courts because they dont exist in russia, and its to get their money out of russia. So even somebody like victor vexleberg investing in gawker, in some ways its a way to get that money out of russia. Its a highly unstable place. Any day that money can be taken away from you. You just want to park it somewhere. Often the best place to park it is an expensive piece of real estate, even if youre paying double, youre still parking that money somewhere where its out of reach of putin. Also, you know, you dont technically own it. A terrific example of this was a couple years ago, the New York Times did a multipart series on Luxury Real Estate in new york city, and it took them months to find out, for example, who owns the apartments in the timewarner building on columbus circle. You cant just, you know, look up the lease records, you know, or the deeds to the apartments, to the condos, because theyre owned by a Shell Company which is owned by a Shell Company, which is owned by a Shell Company. You get the point. And a lot of that eventually led back to russian money, chinese money, saudi money. Right. So if youre you know, it would not be out of the ordinary for somebody like donald trump, who does business did Real Estate Business in new york and florida to have come in contact with and received really shady russian money. Yeah. Heres donald trump jr. Himself at a real estate conference in new york in 2008. Russians make up a pretty disproportionate Cross Section of a lot of our assets. We see a lot of money pouring in from russia. David, the thought i had today was its interesting they wrote this letter because it sort of opens the door on the tax issue once again but also made me think i wonder how much we could learn from the taxes themselves given what jewel yi is talking about, given how adept this sort of International Plutocratic Class is at hiding money to begin with. The tax returns are the starting point for audits, but tonight at dc report. Org, we break a major story by richard behar, a longtime investigative reporter at Forbes Magazine about trump kazakhs money. It goes everywhere from a strange real estate deal in cincinnati, ohio, to the largest city in kazakhstan, and its further evidence of how trump keeps carefully wording what he says to keep us from paying attention to the reality that ms. Ioffe talked about, and that is its all done through empty companies and individuals. It has nothing to do with the russian government directly, only its agents. Chris, can i say one thing . There was a fantastic report in the Financial Times last week about how money got russian money got from russia to marine le pen, the farright nationalist candidate, who ultimately Lost In France last weekend. All the money i mean after going through Shell Company through Shell Company through Shell Company, the reporters found the moscow address where that last Shell Company was registered, and it turned out hundreds of other Shell Companies registered to the same address. Fascinating. It was literally just a plaque on a wall. There was nobody there. It was like a multiapartment building on the outskirts of moscow. Nobody was there. It was just its nothing. Its nothing. Chris, thats what we show at dcreport, the same sort of thing. Only here in america, so that you understand why this letter that trump put out is just garbage. David, let me ask you a final question here. Weve had this strange thing where it occurred to us no one had asked the president if he filed his taxes this year. Everyone knows hes not going to release them. But, you know, you go the to file them. Or, for someone like him, almost certainly you file an extension. So we asked the white house. We said, have you filed or filed an extension . They referred us to sheri dil n dillon, the tax lawyer. We asked and got a no comment. Does it strike you as odd they wont answer the very simple question of whether they even filed an extension . Thats weird, isnt it . Yes, and i thunk ink it goes the utter contempt that Donald Trump Holds for the american system. This is a man who has never read the constitution. He seems to think it has 12 articles rather than 17. So in everything he does, in the way he fired comey, in the way he got rid of two other highlevel officials digging into the russian connections, he is continually showing us exactly what he promised on the campaign trail. He spoke of the presidency as a dictator, and hes doing everything he can to undermine those institutions that make our constitutional democracy and our liberty persist. All right. Julia and david, thank you both. Still to come, Attorney General Jeff Sessions unveils what could be the single most destructive move in the trump era so far. Details ahead. Plus the president talks catapults in a truly amazing thing 1, thing 2 after the break. Also in kids chewables. Is to always keep track of your employees. R micromanage them. Make sure theyre producing. Woo Employee Of The Month you really shouldnt leave their side. Vita coco coconut water, hydration comes naturally. Its not just a car, its your daily treat. Go ahead, spoil yourself. The es and es hybrid. Experience amazing. Theres nothing more than my vacation. Me so when i need to book a hotel room, i want someone that makes it easy to find what i want. Booking. Com gets it. 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The navy says it can launch heavier aircraft for efficiently. The first carrier to use it is the uss gerald r. Ford where President Trump visited in march. But it turns out the president is not a fan of the new system they spent a decade building. In fact, he told them, youre going back to, quote, god damned steam. More of the president s musings on catapult technology in 60 seconds. Connected business world. At t Network Security helps protect business, from the largest Financial Markets to the smallest transactions, by sensing cyberattacks in near real time and automatically deploying countermeasures. Keeping the world of business connected and protected. Thats the power of and. You know how painful heartburn can be. For fastacting, longlasting relief, try doctor recommended gaviscon. It quickly neutralizes stomach acid and helps keep acid down for hours. Relieve heartburn with fast acting, longlasting gaviscon. Earlier this week during a long and winding interview with time, the president recounted a conversation he claims he had with someone at the navy regarding the catapult system used to launch aircraft from the deck of carriers. He said, quote, you know the catapult is quite important. So i said, what is this . Sir, this is our digital catapult system. He said, well, were going to this because we wanted to keep up with modern technology. I said you dont use steam anymore . No, sir. I said, how is it working . Sir, not good. Not good. Doesnt have the power. The president continued, it sounded bad to me, digital. They have digital . What is digital . Its very complicated. You have to be Albert Einstein to figure it out. Now i said they want to buy more aircraft systems. What system are you going to be . Were staying with digital. I said, no, youre not. Youre going with god damn steam. The system for the record is not digital but electromagnetic. A spokesperson told the atlantic anonymous they were blindsided by the president s came. The navy has yet to release an official response, but a quote here, you can see some elements of reality in what he said, but i think he may have spoken without having all of the information in front of him. Or discomfort and diarrhea. I tried Lifestyle Changes and overthecounter treatments, but my symptoms keep coming back. It turns out i have Irritable Bowel Syndrome with diarrhea, or ibsd. A condition thats really frustrating. Thats why i talked to my doctor about viberzi. A different way to treat ibsd. Viberzi is a Prescription Medication you take every day that helps proactively manage both Abdominal Pain and diarrhea at the same time. So i can stay ahead of my symptoms. Viberzi can cause new or worsening Abdominal Pain. 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Today, Attorney General Jeff Sessions ordered the toughest possible prosecution for Drug Offenses telling federal prosecutors to, quote, charge and pursue the most serious readily provable offense. The most serious offenses are those that carry the most this step towards bringing back the heyday of the so called war on drugs rolls back policies by former Attorney General eric holder, mr. Holder responded with a statement that reads in part, the policy announced today is not tough on crime. It is dumb on crime. This absurd reversal is driven by voices who have not only been discredited but until now have been relegated to the fringes of this debate. Joining me now, the president and director of the ncaap Legal Defense fund. First lets start with what the impact of this is. Well, the impact of this is its taking us back. Trump said try something new. This has been tried. This has been tried and discredited. So now were back to something that really was pressed by Attorney General ashcroft, which is that you charge, you know, the highest, most serious offense you can charge of anyone that is violating the laws, the federal laws under the drug laws. And what thats produced is like this swelled federal Prison Population because youre sending people away for exorbitant periods of time for what are essentially minor offenses. What Attorney General holder did in 2013 when he announced the smarter on Crime Initiative was to say you dont do that. You target the most dangerous criminals engaged in the most serious offenses and thats where you put your resources. And under that, you know, new policy, the Prison Population actually was reduced. Started to come down. Absolutely, from 220,000 to 190,000 between 2004 and today. So thats thousands of people. Right. So were talking about i mean in terms of impacts on peoples lives, this is major. This is thousands of people. Also talk about how important prosecutors decisions and discretions are in terms of driving what we call mass incarceration . Well, prosecutors have the most discretion of any actor in the criminal justice system, more than police officers, more than judges. And the decisions they make really are the decisions that result in incarceration for many people and the length of incarceration for many people. And what we recognize is that we need to give prosecutors the tools, particularly reformminded prosecutors, to make smart what attorney general holder would call smart decisions about who to prosecute and what kind of sentences to seek for those individuals. The good news is that, you know, at the state level, i think thats been kind of inculcated. You might have heard today that the new President Elect of the d. A. S Association said, you know, states, were probably not going back to that. We recognize that wasnt smart. Thats a professional organization of prosecutors. Professional organization of prosecutors. So what we had hoped before was that the federal government under Attorney General holder and Attorney General lynch was going to lead and make an example for the states. Now were going to need the states to make an example for the federal government because sessions is wedded to this old way. You know, this was paul ryan last year i believe on criminal justice reform. I think we overcompensated on some of our laws. We had some many mand tory minimums. We could have had alternative means of incarceration. Jeff sessions now defends what hes doing saying its not lowlevel drug offenders. What does this mean for the politics of crime which many people thought the koch brothers and all these conservatives were coming along towards decarceration. Now youve got this . Honestly, chris, this is where it gets scary and were going to have to see because weve seen around a number of issues that the Republican Leadership has been unwilling to push back against President Trump and his administrations policies, even this when they had taken positions that demonstrated that. So i want to know. John correspond anyone from texas, chuck was a leader in the effort to get the criminal justice rofrm bill passed. Where are their voices in response to sessions announcement. Thats what i want to hear. Jeff sessions one of the people who blew up that bill. Pleasure to have you. My interview with senator Elizabeth Warren after the break. Youre going to be hanging out in here. So if you need anything, text me. Do you play . Use the chase mobile app to send money in just a tap, to friends at more banks then ever before. You got next . Chase. Helping you master whats now and whats next. Even if youre trying your best. 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Sally yates was acting Attorney General and she told the Trump Administration his inner circle Adviser Flynn was compromised by the russians. And she gets fired. Preet bharara is the u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york, hes the one who has jurisdiction over any investigation into what happened at trump tower. And after donald trump originally embraced him and said he wanted to keep him on, preet gets fired. And now it turns out that james comey who says he has an active an Ongoing Investigation will not rule out investigating donald trump directly and the connection with the trump campaign and the russians, and now james comey gets fired. Elizabeth warren joining me on tuesday night talking about the comey firing. That was actually the second time wed spoken that day. A few hours before the news broke, i interviewed the senator about her new book, the battle to save americas middle class, to the still percolating republican Health Care Bill and exactly what it will actually do. Its about knocking 24 Million People off health care coverage. Its about raising costs for middle class families. Its about opening the door to discriminating against people with preexisting conditions. And capping out treatments for things like cancer. And all put to get so that the republicans can provide a tax break to a handful of millionaires and billionnaries. I want to point out we should not refer to this as a Health Care Bill. This is a Tax Cut Package that is maneuvered through the device of Cutting Health care out for millions of people so that the top can get another delicious tax break. Theres a lot of obfuscation about what this bill does or wont do. Its rare to get little moments of honest about the ideological fundamental political and philosophy stakes are. Nobody dies because they dont have health care, he issued an apology. You and your colleagues believe that people do die because twhokt health care. They dont just believe it, we actually see it. This is what the data shows. This has ban part of my work long, long before i got involved in politics was studying families that had gone bankrupt because of medical problems. And a part of that is about what happens when you cant get health insurance. It can tehran family upside down financially, but it also means that people may deny themselves the very health care that they need because they dont want to bankrupt their families. People die without health care coverage. If thats the case, and obviously theres a moral case against kicking 24 Million People off or reducing the insurance rules by 24 million, but how is the Squoo Defenseble in that sense . It aims towards universal care, its reduced the rate but it hasnt gotten all the way there. The argument from you is theres something egregious about letting people die, the natural collusion is you need total and complete universal care. And thats very much where we need to head on the democratic side. I came from wlunch my fellow democrats. What we were talking about is how we stand ready to try to make this Health Care System better. And what does better mean . It means fuller coverage and lower cost. Weve got to aim for both of those if were going to get good outcomes. Does that mean care for all . I would negotiate it and put it all on the table on the ways you get to universal coverage. Here in massachusetts weve gotten ourselves to 97 coverage. We also need to bring down the cost. These two work together. Ill give you one example of that. Right now the democrats are ready to go on cutting the cost of prescription drugs. Weve got multiple plans on the table. Sit down with us, but the republicans are driven by trying to produce a tax cut for millionaires and billionnaries and the way they get there is knock people off their care coverage, raise the cost for middle class families and open the door to letting Insurance Companies discriminate against people with preexisting conditions. We cant get them to come to the table for the things people really need for us to do, and that is make this Health Care System work better across this country for everyone. I want to thank senator Elizabeth Warren for being so generous with her time twice on tuesday. My full interview was the senator is up on our websites. She talks about her new book this fight is our fight. Really interesting look at the trajectory of the american middle class. If youre in the detroit area, i have an event this monday for my new book adequate colony in a nation which is out now. You can find all the details on our facebook page. And another event coming up in new york that ill tell you about next week. The Rachel Maddow show starts