could assist here. >> shelly, you mentioned the refugee crisis of 2015. people left places like syria, iraq, flooding western europe. part of the result of that was this anti-immigrant rhetoric which led to the rise of far-right political movements. if we see another potentially even bigger refugee crisis in the coming months, how do you see it playing out against that backdrop? >> i think that there are some risks. first of all, right now, sentiment seems to be pretty positive. there's a lot of sympathy for ukrainians who might burst out of their countries if there is a russian invasion. but the risks are if that host communities in europe become overwhelmed with an influx of people that are hard to house, et cetera, or if there are impressions of chaos, that could sow divisions within the e.u. along the lines of what we saw in 2015 during that migrant crisis. so in the 2015 migrant crisis, those large numbers of people
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