allows if something like that gets into trouble, if a series of risky investments are made, and ultimately they can't cover the damage that they're about to do, you break it apart and get rid of. >> you're admitting that maybe everything you're trying to do to prevent these firms from getting bigger would work -- >> no, no. i'm not saying that -- i'm saying that there now is the -- understand this, chuck. before the sibt there's no legal authority to resolve by breaking apart. legally the mechanism doesn't exist. now legally the mechanism does exist. >> at yesterday's staff communications meeting, what did the deputy chief of staff say about the handling thus far of the chir see sherr-- shirley sh incident? >> i don't know what meeting you're talking about. i've seen reports of what somebodk believed jim said. i did not hear jim say that. i did not hear people say that in that article. jim didn't say that either. >> did this come up at the staff meeting yesterday? >> when you talk about the events at usda? yes. >> now, you said that there's no idea that right wing media has spooked this administration. some have come you should attack from andrew breitbart, glenn beck, bill o'reilly. none of them at this moment are members of this administration. how do you explain those three departures? do they really have nothing to do with the campaign that had been waged against them. >> i was asked a larger question about this, and my answer doesn't change. why do you do stories on all three of them? >> they will be included in the stories tomorrow, i'm sure. >> why? >> you do not see connections between the assertion that shirley sherrod was told glenn beck was going to have her on the tv that night. >> you want to answer my question about why you do those stories, too. >> i'm not sure what that question is. >> check on that and get back to me. >> is anyone in the white house freezing the agriculture department from taking question. >> how do you think this whole episode is going to affect the way the future sensitive personnel decisions are going to be handle by this administration? >> i hope in just the way i discussed it, everybody involved takes the time to learn what happened, that we make decisions based on a full set of facts, not a partial set of facts. >> what is the white house going to do to lobby for the facts? >>ç there will be an extensive rule making procedure in order to full fit the legislative intent. i think we're clear at what provisions mean and what they're trying to prevent. and how and what activities should and should not be allowed. obviously the implementation of this, the additional offices and bureaus that the legislation calls for will be an important appointment for the president to consider. >> ms. sherrod seems very convinced that the white house did place some role in this and is willing to say so publicly. it's her conviction that she's you should the impression based on repeat the conversations -- are you saying that she has a misimpression that she -- >> i will direct you to what the secretary will say yesterday and the answer i gave ben. >> the secretary talked about what he did. and she's asserting that others -- >> uh you'you're parsing the wa >> the secretary said what he did. but others might have. she's you should the impression and saying publicly she believes the white house did play a role in this. >> and as i said to ed, that's not anything based on my knowledge. >> sew you're absolutely convinced that did not happen? >> i can only answer your question three times. >> you're only answering it once. >> i gave you the same answer three times. >> fine. is there going to be any effort to talk to cheryl cook about what she did or did not say to ms. sherrod? >> i direct you to usda about speaking to -- again, i direct you to -- you ask the same question, i give you the same answer. >> i've got a couple of others. ben bernanke today said he believes the economy -- the economic outlook remains unusual ly -- >> the fed chairman says, i think it is safe to say that we have -- if you look, major, at where we were, andç where we a, we are -- we have improved our circumstances, improved our conditions but i don't think there's any doubt that it's not improved for enough people. and that's what the president and team will work on. >> is there anything the fed chairman also sees? >> again, i think, major, that we are in a -- as we have been, quite frankly since well before december 2007, we have a fralgts fragile economy. >> "the washington post" said sunday that the administration was looking forward and had every reason to anticipate a somewhat strong second quarter but g-forces he described adds greece debt situation, germany's call for debt reduction throughout europe and the gaza flotilla situation created an atmosphere of uncertainty that consumers are not spending as much, ceo's not to act as economically aggressively as they might. >> what happened in greece, to say that doesn't have an impact on our economy, i've said that on a number of occasions, of course. >> if we can get back to secretary vilsack's role in all of this. my understanding from the time line you suns suggested here was that the white house was informed but not consulted about her decision to fire her. it took pressure from the white house last night to agree to >> as we said to a number of people today. i'm not going to get into who talked directly -- >> does this not do anything to alter the president's judgment of secretary vilsack's ability to run this department and his judgment and his -- especially given this department's history on these kinds of issues? >> i think the secretary rightly has a zero tolerance policy for discrimination. i think the secretary made a decision based on the information he had and is in the process of trying to reach ms. sherrod for having to made that decision on that incomplete information. >> and nobody asked for the tape of the full speech or anything like that? >> again, based on the full information we have, he's reviewing the decision. >> we can reach her, why can't he reach her? >> maybe he's talking to you. >> when was the president told -- >> i forget the time, but probably late morning yes. >> and what was his initial reaction to what he had heard? >> again, based on what the -- again, i don't have the exact siem with me, but again, as we said yesterday, based on incomplete information and based on a decision that was based on incomplete information, the white house was supportive of that decision. obviously new information came to light. and that's why the review is being undertaken.ç >> i understand that, but who was it that first told mr. obama about this. how did he first learn of it? >> a group of staff -- again, i don't remember what time. >> do you remember when he found out about the additional information? that she actually -- >> at some point yesterday. but i don't know the exact -- >> and you weren't involved -- >> i was involved in the first discussion. >> and in questions about why this happened so quickly, you say a lot of this is frenzy that people react quickly without getting the facts. but part of the reason why people reacted so quickly, i think, at the end of the day is because this is about race. why do you think this issue of race remains so inflammatory? and what does the president say about how to handle it? does he express frustration when this sort of thing happens? >> you know this, i know this, everybody knows this. race has been a topic of discussion for a long, long time in this country. a war was fought about it. a movement to gain equal and civil rights was had to rectify injustice. and it will be something we continue to discuss for some quite some time. again, i think this just continues many of those discussions. mark? >> three other subjects. jobless benefits, what are you hearing about the timing of it? and are you ready -- >> well, i'll say this. many of you saw the statement that we released, despite the fact that the procedural hurdles that we shouldn't have had to go through, we went through and were passed, republicans have insisted on the full 30 hours of that debate. the partisan minority continues its staals effortç for the unemployment insurance that 2.5 million americans so desperately need. those are the people that have been cut off from. as soon as the senate takes this up, the white house will have to take this up. and as soon as both -- as soon as that happens, that bill will come here and the president will sign it as quickly as he can. >> public ceremony? >> i think part of that depends on -- mark, our desire to get this signed into law. >> consumer protection agency, are you able to move on that quickly? >> obviously the president, as i said earlier, will make some appointments based on the law that was signed. i do not expect an imminent announcement on that. >> i would say -- >> next week? >> not that i'm aware of, no. i think we've got highly qualified candidates. there are a number of positions the president will be looking at, and obviously the consumer bureau is one of tremendous importance. >> and does elizabeth warren's close questioning of secretary geithner rule her out? >> absolutely. i think in many ways, elizabeth warren -- this is what elizabeth warren thought should be put in place to ensure that consumers were on equal footing with big banks. i think she would be a -- she would be a terrific nominee. i have seen comments by those questioned whether she could be confirm and i don't agree with those at all. >> this all sounds a little absurd. ms. sherrod has not exactly been hiding and vilsack's office was able to reach her three times yesterday on her cell phone. she said she had the same cell phone. when did he start trying to reach her? >> sometimes today. >> apparently her phone still has not rung. the same phone -- >> if you've got a number, i would be happy to deliver it to the secretary to make sure he's calling the right one. well, don't do that here. >> since you made your statement today, she said she was most struck how this would play for her grand kids that the first black rural director in georgia was fired by the first black president. does that have some resonance. >> decisions on personnel by usda were made by usda.ç those decisions were made on a incomplete set of facts and they're being reviewed by a more complete set of facts. i would say this, the situation is, regardless of who is involved, and regardless of their race, the decisions were wrong. >> another piece of legislation that's very popular with the public, i'm wondering if all of these accomplishments, legislative successes don't seem to be changing the public's opinion, the president's job performance. and even though i know he say he is doesn't do them -- this has been around for a while. >> i don't know what instant polling has been done in the interim. >> the fact that we're getting financial reform isn't brand-new. he says he doesn't do these things because they're popular but because they're right. i wonder what you think it's going to take before all of these accomplishments -- >> we need 500,000 jobs to come back. >> and that's it? pure and simple? >> i think people have rightly so a continued frustration about the economic situation in this country. i think the rules we had in place that led to the financial collapse two years ago. contributed mighty to the 8.5 million jobs that were lost. that is not going to be something that's going to be easily to replace. if you look at the last six months of 2008 and the last six months that we had in 2010, you find a difference of losing 3 million job and gain iing 5.5 million jobs. the president is frustrated. i think -- what was the story hç said. if your lost their house, if your other neighbor didn't -- lost their life savings to send their kid to college and if you lost your job and a pollster called you and said how do you feel about the president, i don't think that it's a wild-eyed stretch to think that you think things still need to get better in this country. >> what's happening tomorrow? >> we are signing the bill on improper payments that has passed recently. improper payments by government. yes, sir? >> china expressed concern over u.s. will further err destabilize the region. does the white house accept those concerns? >> we need a smaller filter for the four cylinder -- makeup person is next, i presume. >> one tv guy cannot go after another tv guy. >> all right, go ahead. i don't know what's going on down there. a whole different set of naval exercises. >> yeah, china has said it's concerned that the u.s.-south korean naval exercises will destabilize the region even further. what political message are you trying to send to north korea. >> i think it's important that these are exercises that are defensive in nature. and defense sends a clear signal of deterrence to the aggression of the north korea and in support of the defense of south korea. i think you've heard the condemnation of those in the administration and the international community for the korea. certainly we are strongly supportive of exercises that demonstrate south korea defending itself. >> let me ask quickly, i'm sorry, i don't think this has been asked. does the president want to reach shirley sherrod himself. >> i do not believe the president has tried, but i will check. >> do you expect him to? >> i will check. >> a few questions on shirley sherrod. one, who here at the white house viewed the entire videotape? >> i think a number of us have now. >> dis the president one of those? >> i don't think he's seen the entire tape? >> but he's seen portions of it? >> yeah. >> you talked about the frenzy and the immediacy of the new cycle. this is not the fist time this administration has gotten caught uh up in the immediacy of the news cycle when it comes to issues of race. the first time we saw a press conference when president obama talked about henry lewis gates and the police sergeant in massachusetts. what say you on matters of race? some have aduz r accused this administration of not being able to embrace race with the historic nature of this presidency, but yet again you say you're embracing be but you react without getting all the facts on these two incidents of race. >> i'm not up here to make excuses for actually quite the contrary on what has happened in this case. i think many involved at all levels believe rightly that not all information was gotten. i think rectifying that is tremendously important forrern. >> do you think these issues have been hijacked? >> no. >> this is from a quote, we also believe a national dialogue on race must be held. the basis for mrs. sherrod's resignation is another example of why we should not sweep race under the rug and we should come together and recognize that while difficult we must confront these issues head on. bill clinton held a conversation on race. does this administration feel they need to hold on? >> again, we'll go back and check. as i said to kevin, i have not heard discussions about that today. >> black farmer, you brought it up with chuck. >> i don't know where the legislation -- i will check on -- and you should check with members on capitol hill that might have quite honestly better intelligence about the level of what's in different drafts of supplemental appropriations that need to go through. >> john voigt says the president doesn't want it in the war bill. the administration and the president in particular doesn't want it there. >> i don't know the latest about what's in what bill. >> officials said they were informed but not consulted on her -- what does that mean? what's the difference between those two. >> you don't understand that? >> the dichs between informed and consulted. >> decisions made on hiring or made, as i said earlier, at the u.s. department of agriculture.. >> decisions made on hiring or made, as i said earlier, at the u.s. department of agriculture.. >> decisions made on hiring or made, as i said earlier, at the u.s. department of agriculture. made, as i said earlier, at the u.s. department of agriculture. they informed the white house of decisions that had been made. >> which official was informed initially. >> i think there was interaction between a number of people. >> could someone from the white house have said, presumably after being informed that this is not acceptable? is there someone at the white house that could have red-lighted this at that time? >> well again, this is a decision the secretary made based off of incomplete information. >> we know about the secretary. he's spoken publicly on this. >> i guess it's hard to go back in terms of that hypothetical. >> it's not a hypothetical. someone was inform. who was that decision individual? >> again, this was based on -- look, i'm not here to make excuses for the decisions that were made. they were wrong. >> who was it? is someone going to be held accountable? >> let me finish. >> look, i have throughout today taken responsibility for our actions. >> so was it you? >> i'm the lucky guy that gets to go talk to you. >> i'm sorry, can't we just put a finer point on it. you talked quite significantly about this frenzy of overreaction and the way folks are responding. but who is responsible for this in the white house? >> look, i think there are a number of people who are responsible. i think there are a number of people responsible at the usda. many different levels, many different venues that will as a result of this take a look at the actions and decisions that were made. >> can you tell us who at the white house rer versed course and called the agriculture department and reviewed this. can you at least tell us that information? >> the white house. the white house. >> the president was scheduled to have lunch with members of the house today. who were they? >> i don't have a list. but i will get that. i think much like the senators that came over here, recently, i assume there were a number of topics. >> in terms of the teachable moment, is one of the lessons to be learned here the administration should not be so quick to throw its own people under the bus? >> well, bill, i don't know that i would -- i'm going toç separe out and not get into something that happened last year. i think that decisions were made based on what we knew at that time. hold on. the secretary of agriculture made that decision. i think everyone goes back and thinks what could you have done differently? and we'll all have an opportunity to do that. i think that is an important role. i think that's what makes it teachable. >> so is the lesson don't trust the internet or what? >> i think when somebody puts 2 1/2 minutes of video up and people play 2 1/2 video off a 43-minute speech it's probably important for both the news organization transmitting the 2 1/2 minutes and what they purport that it means, and for those involved making decisions about somebody's career and their life to do the same thing. i think that's true as i started out this briefing by saying those on the political playing field that are going to commentate -- i don't mean necessarily pundits, interest groups on this side or that, to do the same thing. i think that's clearly what the naacp has done over the course of the past 24 hours. i think what makes this teachable is us taking a step back and taking a look at the decisions that were made based on that incomplete information. what questions you should have asked, when you should have asked them. both as glenn asked, both here and at the department of agriculture.ç nobody berthed on monday that the 2 1/2 minutes was really 43. my guess is you heard from a lot of your editors saying go get reaction to this story. and i think that groups get involved in this. >> this whole issue of advances in technology, 24-hour news cycles, a question right now. are you saying in effect that advances in technology allow for things to be taken out of context as opposed to the old journalistic standards where you're supposed to put things in context without advancing any particular agenda, whether it's liberal or -- >> well, i don't doubt that even in some context, some people might decide -- we've always had opinion writers in this country. but in some ways that oversimplifies this. the context isn't that somehow the 2 1/2 minnesotas was not contextualized property. it wasn't a complete recitation of what she said. now, that's transmoited. you all get reaction, you transmit both the 21 hoof minute, not the 43, the reaction based off the 2 1/2 minutes, not the 43, and decisions are based on personnel based on that. i don't think there's anybody involved in that chain that wouldn't think that from start to finish this couldn't have been handled and shouldn't have been handled differently. >> the chamber of commerce ceo said if you really want to create jobs, temporary extend the tax cuts temporarily. the president is only calling for an extension of middle class tax cuts. is there a possible temporary extension? >> obviously this is an issue that's going to come to the fore based on theç expiration of th ten-year 2001 tax cuts. the president's priority as you heard in the campaign are those that affect the middle class. we instituted those at a time -- i was asked i think it was yesterday about unemployment benefits. the economic situation has changed. how can you pass an extension of unemployment insurance based on the fact that the budgetary situation has changed. i think we have to ask ourselves, given the budgetary situation, tax cuts for those as the president has said on numerous occasions that people didn't need and people weren't asking for are something that given where we are can be aff d afforded budget tarl. . >> when will you let us know if the president calls her? >>ly update you as soon as it happens. >> robert gibbs extends an also poll ji to sherrly sherrod. i'm thomas roberts. if you've been watching that, that was one very interesting white house press briefing where shirley sherrod's name took up the entire portion of that. questions about economics and also about china. now we understand where the white house stands on the question of whether or not shirley sherrod was let go fairly and the answer to that is no. we check in now with mike vi quiera, this went the way pretty much everyone expected it to go now that people have seen the 43-minute speech. >> robert gibbs was contrite and co combative. he said i'm not here to make excuses, we are not here to make excuses. it turns out that shirley sherrod was watching him on television, and the question, however, they're trying to create a distinction between being consulted and informed. yesterday they said the president was informed about what was going on. the fact that secretary vilsack over at the usda, the agriculture department was going to let her go. they were not consulted. having said all of that, no ifs, ands or buts about it. this notion, you've already seen a lot of criticism on the internet and elsewhere, that it is conservative media that is calling the tune the administration is dancing to. when you go back to van jones and other incidents. but robert gibbs, sharply disputes that. very combative, as he is almost philosophical on this question of race now that has also dogged him through the course of the administration. >> and secretary vilsack has not been able to reach out to shirley sherrod yesterday. however, robert gibbs did give an apology. let's go ahead and take a listen. >> i think without a doubt ms. sherrod is owed an apology. i would do so certainly on behalf of this administration. >> i want you to talk to chuck todd. he's inside the briefing room. was he standing on, i guess, an ice cube to keep cool you should all that fire? he was barraged with questions pertaining to shirley sherrod. we heard the same answer over and over again. >> there were a few things interesting about this. one, obviously the contrition aspect, but the second is they didn't have a lot of new information toe offer. they didn't necessarily say they were offering her her job back. clearly they were hoping that secretary vilsack would have already reach her and that would have been something they would been able to announce. the other fascinating fact is who robert gibbs did not go after. he basically lumped everybody and said everybody is at fault here. the government, the white house, the secretary, the department of agriculture, the media in general. and the second thing was this continued basically ducking of this cob ver sags on ra-- conve race. it's something the president said he would have if he would become president. he thought we were going to hear more. the infamous beer summit in response to harvard professor henry lewis gates. so that to me was sort of what he didn't say was as remarkable as what he did say today, thomas.ç i know we here would love to have both of them on. why do you think there's been such a disconnect. we know ms. sherrod is in a studio right now of another network. we know that sometimes phones get put on silent. so i have a feeling here that this is -- that maybe all of us should not jump to conclusions as to why it's being so difficult. i think it would be hard for vilsack to call someone who's actively on tv at a time he's trying to call her. >> i know you have your blackberry right now. >> it's on all the time. i hear you. >> thanks so much. good to talk to you. we want to talk more about this. joining me now in los angeles, a political analyst and author of how obama governed the year of crisis and challenge. and here with me is karen hunter, an msnbc contributor, as well as a journalist. and a publisher. i want to start with you and get your reaction to what you think we just learned from this briefing. is the biggest message here that everybody was wrong about this and that everyone didn't dot all the eyes and cross the ts properly? '. >> we also learned something else. even while there was a kind of sort of apology on behalf of the white house through bob gibbs, still two questions. number one, why is it so difficult for agriculture secretary tom vilsack not to try to reach shirley sherrod, but just simply say look, we screwed up, we messed you were, we ee e. they have to say we are going to take the initiative on this,ç we're not going to buck pass. i think the second thing, still there's still kind of a duck and a dodge. the bottom line is, the woman was wronged. bottom line, a horrible decision was made. conservative media dydek tate the flow, in this case, about how a decision was made a bad decision as it turned out, and by bob gibbs, and personally, i think by extension, the white house not exactly and not directly addressing that, i think still begs the question, the bigger question about can we have this dialogue? can we talk? can we essentially begin to confront the burning issue of the time, how race and race is still driving a lot of national agenda, both overtly and covertly. >> we were able to talk to shirley earlier today, speaking to msnbc's contessa brewer. let's play you some of that sound. >> to have the very agency, you know, that so many of us have looked to through the years, you know, be so quick to judge without getting the facts and actually coming out with something negative on someone who's -- and that someone is me, who's dedicated her life to fairness. to civil rights work. that hurt, i think probably even more than the reaction of the department of agriculture. >> let's bring in karen hunter now and talk to you about this. >> you have a different opinion about where she goes from here. do you think she should take her job back if it's offered back to her? or do you think she should stay on the forefront of this issue? because race is an ignitingish hue in this america. >> welsh it's igniting, but one that america has been very reluctant to have a conversation about it. >> i think vilsack should think about resigning since he wants to force people to resign because his judgment was really poor. >> she has devote the her life -- >> she is the rosa parks of cable news journalism perhaps and the person who could usher in thisç new wave of transparey and accountability. >> she is today, that's for sure. >> do you think secretary vilsack should be looked at to possibly resign? or someone from the naacp resign? they were ready to jump on this. >> you know what, he should be called op the parkt. maybe somebody should look at his job performance. certainly his decision making is all screwed up. i agree with karen. i think at some point in time, you might want to look at vilsack and say maybe you're the wrong person for the job. she should take her job back. >> take the money. >> if you look at her and just see the pain and suffering. this woman said i dedicated my life to this kind of work. my job. >> she said it would be difficult to go back to that position. >> that may be. >> let's go to the naacp. >> i'll get to them in a second. i don't disagree with that, it might be difficult, but talt, by her being there, that makes a statement unto itself. it's always there to rub it in their face. now the naacp. when i got the initial press release from ben jealous, the naacp president, i was appalled. you're rushing to judgment, making a bad decision based on the echo chamber on the right side of the news media, but you're reacting because you took -- made a statement, the naacp, a resolution condemning the tea party for their racism, and now you're going to the other extreme. back pedalling, reacting to them. what kind of a position is that on the part of a reputable national civil rights organization? yes, the naacp needs to be call on the carpet. >> we've got to take a break. we're going to be right back with much more on this. please don't go anywhere. 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[ male announcer ] you should not take reclast if you're on zometa, have low blood calcium, kidney problems or you're pregnant, plan to become pregnant or nursing. take calcium and vitamin d daily. tell your doctor if you develop severe muscle, bone or joint pain, of if you have dental problems, as rarely jaw problems have been reported. the most common side effects include flu like symptoms, fever, muscle or joint pain, headache, nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. share the world with the ones you love! and ask your doctor about reclast. or call 1-866-51-reclast. year-long protection for on-the-go women. i asked you right before the break about the naacp. what do you think on this? should heads roll there? >> not only should mr. jealous step down for going on network television without watching the whole 48 minute tape. they went after the tea party over race instead of going after the tea party for issues that really matter, separation of church and state. they you want to bury the n-word and do all these other thing, we have a jobless issue, we have a financial crisis in this country. we have violence going on in our neighborhoods, but you want to focus on race? that's a problem. mr. jealous in my opinion should step down. >> we do appreciate it. >> we move on to a different topic that that's a hot button topic. there's been a huge push for special interest donors to make donations from middle class voters who really count. sam waterston is a big supporter of this measure. you also know that familiar face is best known for all of us around here as jack mccoy in "law & order." he testified on capitol hill about campaign reform. we do appreciate your time. a. >> thank you for your time. >> give us an idea about how this mez shur would change about how candidates could actually collect money? >> well, they would still have to qualify before their own people. it's too complex to explain in a second on tv.ç a candidate would have to raise money if he did so successfully, he would be rewarded with matching funds 4 to 1 match from federal money. >> we know that politicians love their money and that's how they get elected. how do you know what an upbill battle you have. >> there were 56 co-sponsors of the bill in the house. and as of today, just one year later, there are 156, or maybe 157, i think. the momentum in the right direction. i think the reasons for it are pretty obvious. one of them being that we can see the recent catastrophes, the reception itself, the mess in the financial business, the oil spill. all of these things are connected in some way or another to the influence of money and our politics. and so it's not surprising there's an emor mouse amount of popular support for campaign finance reform. the essentials of this bill have been tried in states and have been shown to work. to the great pleasure of the public and of the politicians themselves because they are enormous task which keeps multiplying in unbelievable ways year after year, the amounts of money that they have to raise and the amount of time that they have to raising it. >> sam, just real quickly, yes or no. you do so much work testifying on the hill. do you have political aspirations, yes or no? >> no. >> no, okay. sam waterston. hopefully we have aspirations to see you back on tv again. do appreciate your time today so thank you, sir. >> thank you. today massachusetts and washington, d.c. school board vote on whether they will fall in line with the new national standards for schools. already 27 states are on board. that's a surprising number because there's traditionally a push to keep education control on a local level, and it all comes down to money. states are working to adopt the standards by august the 2nd to win points in the president's race to the top competition with $3.4 billion inç fund-raising that is up for grabs. secretary of education arne duncan says he's ecstatic to see this change in the third rail of education, but all the races for the cash, does a one size fit all standard to education help all the students succeed? joining us now is joyce irvin, a principal of a low-performing school in burlington, vermont, who lost her job so her school could actually qualify for stimulus money. how did you lose your job? thought you voluntarily left your job so that the school could get the money? >> what happens is one of the four turnaround models under the stimulus act requires -- well, all four sections required the principal to be replaced so in any indication i would have lost my job. i just opted to take a different position within the district and leave a school that i absolutely loved. >> well, your superintendent called you a leader among her colleagues. would you ever want to go back to being a teacher in these schools to help the low performance levels of these students that you love so much? >> you know, i would love to some day again be a principal in a school. i had 19 years of teaching before i became a principal, and would i love to end my career as a principal, but at this point in time that's not possible. >> so the burlington school district wanted to qualify for up to $3 million in fed stimulus money for its dozen schools. the options for low-performing schools. what's your take on this? is it really going to come down to these schools actually getting this money? are they going to get what they need for the kids there? >> we won't know that. i mean, we submitted a request to the state of vermont toward the stimulus money because they are the middle liaison, and we've asked for specific things to help the kids out. as you know, the school i was involved in is located in a refugee resettlement area. we have 40% of our schools who are non-english speaking. many of them from africa and east asia, and we also have a plus 90% poverty rate, and our students really have a lot of needs that they want, and so we're hoping that the state looks very finely at our application and we get some of that funding. >> joyce, we know that you and a lot of your colleagues who are teachers there, have some of the toughest jobs or did have some of the toughest jobs in our country and a lot of times it goes underappreciated so thank you for your time today, joyce. >> okay, thank you. before we leave you today. move over, superman, move over spider-man, get out of the way spider-man, e want to introduceu to a rail life hero, the mailman. an ohio postal worker has earned the reputation as a superhero after saving the life of not one person but three people in his years delivering mail. here he is. there's the gentleman right there. keith mcveigh. last week you did cpr on a man on the side of the road. what happened? how did you come across this man? >> delivering my mail, heard commotion around mere. saw his buddy shaking him, trying to revive him. got on his cell phone. needed an ambulance. his ambulance wasn't breathing so i ran across the street to see how i could help. saw he was in a bad way. got him out of the truck and i started my cpr. >> keith, how many years have you been on the same route? >> same route, probably 20 years now, sir. >> and so it was roughly 20 years ago that you were able to talk a suicidal teen down from a bridge? what made you get involved in that, because that was the first time you came across somebody that was in distress. >> yes, sir, i didn't talk him off the jump. did take the jump. hit on the snow bank and fell on a garbage truck who in turn got the ambulance to him and took him away to safety. >> the third one two years ago you pulled a drowning girl from a lake, and as i understand it, then you went back to your mail route. >> yes, i did, sir. it's pretty much done with what i was doing that day. helped her out, and didn't want to put my load back on the other guy so i finished up that day, sir. >> keith, what kind of legend are you around the postal office there? >> i've been taken a bit of a ribbing lately. i don't know about the legend, but, yeah, i get my share of jabs. >> i bet you get a lot of good christmas gifts from everybody on your mail route. if you've been doing this 20 years they have to know you all pretty well. >> i do -- i do know my people pretty well and they good care of me at christmas. >> all right. keith mcvey, thank you for your time today, and really, keep up the great work on the postal route and also out there being a hero helping everybody that's on your route. sound like a great guy so thank you. >> thank you, sir. >> that is our show for this wednesday. i'm thomas roberts. "the dylan ratigan show" is up next. he's going to have a lot to talk about during his hour. neil barofsky, the man inç chae of the t.a.r.p. bailout, joins dylan. dylan will talk about how much of taxpayer money has gone to bailing out the financial industry, and just to remind you, the breaking news this hour of the white house giving its apology to shirley sherrod. that story is going to continue here tonight on msnbc with special editions of keith olbermann. join us for that. have a great day, everybody. see you tomorrow. ♪ [ female announcer ] start your morning... hey. what are you doing up? i thought i'd take a drive before work. want to come? [ female announcer ] or make his day. yeah. 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