are bracing for high surf and rip currents. a report later from massachusetts. in the meantime in new jersey, the beach patrol in ocean city has been busy washing people about the potential for dangerous wavgs. >> if you're in the water and a wave comes in, it's going the fill up, get your feet off the ground and take you out as the tied goes out again. >> they're urging beach kboeers to stay out of the weather. todd santos is here with more. good morning. >> good morning, alec. you mentioned tropical storm warnings. that's mainly for the opportunity for we'll call it tropical storm conditions within 24 hours of massachusetts to sagamore beach. alex mentioned the greatest threat to tus east coast will be the wave action as well as the rip current. you can see the system itself. nearest bermuda i marked there on the map. still the outermost corner of the rain bands picking up some significant winds and thunderstorms. the scope of the wind field with this system is just absolutely massive, and to put it in perspective, at least the tropical storm force winds skpening out from the center as far as the scope is concerned. now, it looks very close to the u.s. coastline and that's why we're seeing some of the effects as far as the wave action, the rip current risk and especially across cape hatteras. we're going to see the waves increasing as well as pretty significant wind, especially offshore, but, again, the tropical storm force conditions could actually kind of impact some of those areas along nantucket, martha's vineyard and a few spots over the next day or so. a few things to keep in mind as the system passes the coastline is expected to basically bend along the coast, thanks to a trough there. that should keep it at least at a safe distance for the most part there. >> a lot of times people think. >> what you're going to run into there, aside from the gusty winds is the big rollers. they have to come from somewhere. so likely rollers as well. >> todd santos, we've got you all morning. thanks so much. and we're going to keep all yof you updated on the latest hurricane bill developments throughout the morning. we have a live report coming up. let's go to politics now. nbc has learned that a ca iowa report detailing mock executions can be released as early as monday. according to "news week" the report says cia officials threatened one detainee with a gun and a power drill. and they staged a fake execution in a room next to one detainee complete with a gunshot to make it seem like a prisoner had been killed. the report will be pretty explosive. >> there are passages in the report that talk about these technique, mock executions, threatening a die tanee with death that clearly seemed to go beyond the justice department legal authorizations and that's why these are so significant. >> that report will be released on monday, and the rachael maddow show air nightly at 9:00 p.m. on msnbc. >> immigrants would not be covered. that idea has never even been on the table. some are also saying coverage for abortion os would be mandated under reform. and as every credible person who looked into it has said, the there are no so-called death panels, an oh forcepsive notion to me and to the american people. e-mail joined by mike vicara. is there something happening there. >> we have lawmakers on both sides of the argument. what are they saying? they have to do with rumors and myths, right? >> it's not a good sign for the president. all this time he had a yid wroe address just two weeks ago where he knock dound what he called misleading information. they're driving the white house to distraction and they haven't gotten any better. it's unclear what the next arrow in their quiver is going to be. there's a lot of talk, of course, over the past week over abandoning that so-called public option. the senate certainly isn't in favor of it. at least there aren't enough votes in the senate to do it. but the house says they're not going to pass anything that doesn't have a public option. so there's a real quandary here and the fact that the president has to knock down these misrepresentations about fabry indications in the bill has got them very frustrated but the president says it's not only the public and those at the town halls that are persistent at keeping the rumors alive. here's tom price, a physician in the house of representatives, he had his respoens to president obama this morning. >> the president ha said hoe'd like to stamp out some of the disinformation floating around out there. the problem is the president himself playing fast and loose with the facts. the president regularly tells americans that if you like your plan, you can keep your plan. experts agree that under the house bill millions of americanses will be forced off of their pirnl private coverage and shuffled on to the government plan. >> and, of course, it's the congressional office saying some small businesses, employers, would opt to pay a fee instead of offering the service knowing that the employer could go to the so-called exchanges to get their health insurance, alex. >> clear wi we're going to continue discussing this with you and in other places this morning. thank you, mike viqueira. yoreen hatch and charles schumer. they're on tomorrow ott "meet the press." for the first time we're hearing of a night mary plane flight of passenger whose were stuck on the tarmac. after averting to rochester, they were inside the plane. on the tapes the pilot tells the dispatcher in houston the only terminal in rochester is closed. >> you're not dining too good tonight, huh? >> no, no. there's no food and they're getting really unhappy. >> well, a preliminary investigation shows that they incorrectly told the express jet they t passengers could not be allowed inside the naerm nal because of security that night. they dispute those findings. they're searching for a reality tv star. the u.s. marshal is offering a $25,000 award leading to tay rest of ryan jenkins who may be hiding in his native canada. he once appeared on a reality show. the body was stuffed in a suitcase with her fingers and teeth removed. msnbc analyst clint van zandt and clint's also the offer of "facing down evil." clipt, good morning to you. >> hi, alex. >> very, very disturbing details in this case. the police say they identified her body through the serial number on her breast implants because her teeth and her fingers were removed. how unusual is this? >> well, it's very unusual. as you know, normally we have fingerprints, we have dental records to go from. the suspected killer has seen too many csi southeast. if you get rid of the teeth and fingers and stuff the body into a suitcase and hope it goes out to a landfall and won't be identified. >> when you look at how this all went down is it your suspicion that it was methodically planned or if it was a crime of passion? what do you think? >> no. it think it was a crime of passion. i think that the individual, her ex--husband, realized that she met and married this guy in the same month earlier this year and then had the marriage annulled a couple of months later. this is a man who had such a sense of entitlement, that the idea that she would talk to anybody el, have a former boyfriend just imflamed th ed t. i think when they got back together she was still having contact with her former boyfriend. this is somebody the traditional if i can't have you, nobody's going to have you and i think he lost it. he choekd her out, killed her, then he panicked, how am i going to get rid of the body. then you do what fuj tibs do, they run the an air yachl he ee from canada. he run back to canada thinkinging that's where he can hide. it was what you would see in a social path or psycho path, total disregard for the victim, when he killed her, disposed of the body. now he's armed and dangerous. and in 2003 he talked about suicide so i think he's a candidate for suicide before he's captured also. >> clint, we'll talk to you more on this and we'll talk about the situation in canada, what may be happening there. still ahead, a live report from bermuda, how it could affect your beach plans next. also promises signs for the economy. are we coming one step closer to a recovery? and later, how twig ser helping make or break success at the box office. you're on "msnbc saturday." hey, it's me, water. did y know that when you filter me at home i'm pretty much the same as i am in a plastic bottle? except that you'll save, like, $600 bucks a year. but other than that, we're pretty much the same. pur. good, clean water. if you're using other moisturizing body washes, you might as well be. you see, their moisturizer sits on top of skin, almost as if you're wearing it. only new dove deep moisture has nutriummoisture, a breakthrough formula with natural moisturizers... that can nourish deep down. it's the most effective natural nourishment ever. new dove deep moisture with nutriummoisture. superior natural nourishment for your skin. not even the occasional staring contest. (announcer) start their school year off right with a great kellogg's breakfast at an unbeatable price. save money. live better. walmart. when people say, hey mike, why for, why now? i say brace yourself. that gas guzzler in your driveway, just might be, a clunker. but don't panic, it could be a good thing. your ford and lincoln mercury dealers are cash for clunkers specialists. they'll recycle your ride, and get you a big fat juicy rebate from uncle sam. you can get all the details, charts, graphs, etc, at ford.com. why ford, why now? why not? visit your ford or lincoln mercury dealer. at a quarter past the hour that is the coastline of massachusetts. no identifying factors that can let you know what you're seeing. it is cheerily the effects of hurricane bill and all the tumultuous activity after the eastern seaboard. it is a category 2 hurricane right now. it is making its way toward the east coast but not before doing some pretty severe wind and surf damage in hamilton, bermuda. right now. this area, a place people are watching closely. up an down the eastern sea bod we're keeping a close eye. we're going to go to politics now and health care reforp. fiction versus fact. they say obama is playing fast and loo, this as they reportedly consider pushing through a partisan plan. joining us live from the national's capitol, jon decker and a correspondent for reuters. good saturday morning to you, jon. >> good morning, alex. >> has that changes things regarding the status of the headlight care bill? do we know where it specifically is right now? >> right now it's clear it has. helped the president, despite having so many town hall meeting, three last week, despite so many youtube addresses on saturday mornings. it really hasn't helped the poll numbers. new polls indicate that the public has lost confidence in the way the president is handling health care reform. so the president certainly needs this break, this one-week vacation to recharge. the white house needs it as well. nay need to come back in september and push hard on this because right now there's a lot of dissension in the house of representatives as to whether a so-called public option, government-run insurance program should be included the house bill. >> let's look at what has been on the plate. it's been so busy passing bank bailouts, stimulus measures, auto industry bailouts. tobacco legislation, climate legislation. should it come as a surprise to the president that he's getting pushed back on his health reform plan? is he doing too much too soon? does he have a choice about all that he has in front of him? >> and let's not forget on top of all that you mention there's two ongoing wars, so the president certainly has a lot on his plate. i think the white house believes and i think they're correct in this that they need to get so much accomplished in the first year because as many political analysts will tell you that is a time when they have the most power and the president despied those public approval ratings that we just talked about right now as it relates to health care overall, husband public approval rating is very good. high 60s or so. there's a lot they think they can get. next year, 2010, will be a mid-year election year. it's going to be more difficult to get the kinds of reforms they want passed in that year. >> okay, jon. we're going to get more done with you the next hour. thanks so much. at this hour hirk bill barrelling north where it make as close approach to bermuda. right now maximum sustained winds of about 105 miles an hour. weather channel's jim can torre is joining us live from bermuda. jim, good morning to you. we were watching you all day yesterday doing your hits. it looks a little clearer or is that the shot. >> the worst of the storm has definitely gone by. we dealt with horizontal rain last night for several hours. unofficially a gust on the top hills about 90 miles an hour and also somebody saw a reported tornado trying to develop up there. so we can't get a lot of information as to exactly what's going on but i do believe there are power outages. the debris looks to be light if you will, palm prauns. the beaches, whole different animal. we lost feet of tell beau beach here. at the time of high tide the waves were crashing up the seawall poised at about 15 feet. we will lose more beach. tropical storm warnings are gonlt to continue today. that's what's going to make it difficult for planes to get in to bermuda to get people out. many visitors had to stay behind because they couldn't get seats on planes that were leaving yesterday behalf they had to shut down the airport. unofficially the airport reopening at about 2:00 this afternoon if they can declare the airport safe and get rid of all the debris. we're expecting more rain showers today. back to you. >> jim, what about the beaches up and down the eastern seaboard from mid-florida all the way up to new england. is there a concern for swimmers and boaters? should they really not be going there? >> reporter: no, they should thought be. even though we're seeing the category do down or weaken, the waves were created by the category. they're not going to stop or slow down. they're going to continue all the way up to nova scotia. you've got huge waves and rip current risks. what's nice, alex, about being on these beaches is the water is so blue -- out to sea, a sign of that rip current. so that is basically what's translating now to the east coast beaches and will continue this afternoon. >> okay. wh channel's jim can torre, always in the thick of thing. thanks very much for the latest. >> later we'll check on the storm prep rags there. an unpleasant surprise for people who wanted to use an atm in serbia. a 6.5'pay thon decided to soak up the sun on the machine. police believe it was once somebody's pet who escaped. oh, yikes. pollen. when i really liked to be outside, i did not like suffering from nasal allergy mptoms like congestion. but nasonex relief may i say... bee-utiful! prescription nasonex is proven to help relieve indoor and outdoor nasal allergy symptoms like congestion, runny and itchy nose and sneezing. 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( announcer ) blackberry runs better on america's largest 3g network. and now buy any blackberry, like the new tour, and get one free. verizon wireless. ♪ [ female announcer ] arthritis targets your body where it's vulnerable. ♪ tylenol arthritis works with your body to block the pain, without interfering with certain high blood pressure medicines like aleve sometimes can. ♪ so you don't just feel better, you feel better knowing doctors recommend tylenol more than any other brand of pain reliever. ♪ right now here on msnbc, we're taking a look at someone trying to clean the lens there in bermuda. that's the elbow beach area. they've lost a few feet of coastline according to jim can torre's last report. it does look better than yesterday and has passed by bermuda and heading toward the east coast and residents from florida all the way to the new england states are braying for bill. prep raegs very under way in eastern canada for hurricane bill as well. they're tying down their boats, buying up grocery. it's supposed to pass nova scotia sometime monday mond mondaying. new this morning an election group has carried out a gruesome preelection threat. the free and fair election found dag has cut off the ink stain finger of two afghan voters. they were required to dip their fingers in purple ink after voting in the ee lengz. richard engle is live. this is a grsome story. what can you tell us? >> it seems to have happened on a fairly small scale and it's kind of disgusting. the ink stays on your fingers for a few days. but this attack took place shortly after the ballots were cast on thursday. >> so as awful as that is, let's talk about the declaration of a winner. that's not going to happen any time soon, is it? it could take a couple of weeks, i'm told, and there could be a run-off. what about accusation of stuffing ballot boxes, all of that. do you fear this is going to lead to more up rest? >> there are fearses there could be unrest in the country and the u.s. envoy richard holbrooke has been meeting with to two leading candidates and telling them to try to calm their constituencies. we've been told by abdullah abdullah who ee the leading contender in this race that he's not going to cause any unrest, that he wants to show as much restraint as possible, although he does believe there was fraud, some ballot box stuffing, particularly in the southern provinces. the electoral provision says we should have preliminary results on tuesday but they will be released after this in daily press conferences starting on tuesday. >> okay. and any claim of victory at this point by either abdullah abdullah or karzai? >> both believe they are winning and have accumulated enough votes to have won, but they're not've declaring victory. and this is -- it sounds like you're splitting hairs here, but there's a big difference. i spoke with abdullah abdullah yesterday and i asked him do did you win? do you believe you've won? >> yes. he's not declare himself president. he's skpeging the process, he says the ballots are still being counted. he things there could be a run offand if a run offtakes place it would most likely be in october. >> thanks as always. we'll talk to you again. tomorrow david gregly on "meet the press" will meet with two men, admiral mike mullen and karl eikenberry. it's this sunday on "meet the press. " you must be looking for motorcycle insurance. you're good. thanks. so is our bike insurance. all the coverage you need at a great price. hold on, cowboy. cool. i'm not done -- for less than a dollar a month, you also get 24/7 roadside assistance. ght on. yeah, vroom-vroom! sounds like you ran a 500. more like a 900 v-twin. excuse me. well, you're excused. the right insurance for your ride. w, that's ogressive. call or click today. jo. we continue to watch hurricane bill spinning toward bermuda at this hour. that's what you see. dangerous waves are pounding the island. people are waiting out the storm inside their homes and hotels. former president bill clinton to and hillary clinton were vacationing earlier this week but they were able to cut their trip short and got out on thursday night. meantime a tropical storm warning is up for the coast of massachusetts. todd santos is here with more on bill. todd, another good morning to you. >> i at least want to mention some of those tropical storm warnings in effect. something about presidents, alec. i tonal know. if the clintons were out near bermuda and the president is heading toward ma that's vineyard. we have a tropical storm warning. tropical conditions possible within 24 hoursful all the areas in blue have high surf advisories and i would not be surprised to see those heading up to glocester, mass. the wave action starting to pick up. winds in hyannis have not started to pick up. we'll watch those throughout the daytime. but as the system pushes toward the north we generated a lot of the swells. that was a great point. the system was a category 4. really churned up the ocean. has a really good fetch. you can see the track there basically in to tomorrow morning and by tomorrow evening we'll see it dying down, especially along long island. however, still, i mean we're talking about rain showers across the area. most of those on our frontal boundary. more coming up. >> thank you for being with us. todd santos. in just a bit we'll bring you live reports from bermuda and along the east coast so make sure to log on to weather.com as well as stay tuned to "msnbc saturday." it is the president's first family's vacation. they're all heading to martha's vineyard for a ten-day vacation. the obamas set to arrive there on monday. there was last-minute prep for the first family's arrival. before we go to you, ann, how is the weather there? >> it's humid. no winds yet, but, boy, i can't remember the last time the cape was humid. you can literally cut the air. vacationers catch the ferry to go to martha's vineyard. this weekend, pride and enthusiasm over the president's upcoming vermont. the invasion of martha's vineyard is under way. marine helicopters buzz overhead. cars with tinted windows and license plates roll off the ferries as the island prepares for its close-up. the island will host president obama and his family, they hope it will be their vary own stimulus package. >> what we hope they will see is people catch on to the buzz and excitement and good economic news. >> phil mcandrews says it's been a challenging summer. he's brewing a special beer and hoping the president last seen drinking a bud u lite will approach this ale. >> if he wants something more than 12-ounce, he hopes prfr will come back. then senator obama quietly pumped ierp here. oh, i think everybody would be all over him. >> even the island's black dog know's there ooh e abu dog in town. >> it's a 28-acre property with 12 houses on i. you could stay in a different one every night. jacqueline oh nas sis, carly simon, james lee, spike lee, and other actors have hopes here. while some of it may think of it as a celebrity sandboxes, those who love the vineyard say it's place you can really relax, even if you're president of the united states. >> she has been coming to the island since she was a child. when you see the ferry, everything drops away. >> a place to forget that you'll always remember. now, despite all the excitement on the island over the prison presidential visit, there is expected to be a low-key vacation a scatcharding with the arrival which will be closed to the public's expense. >> okay. can i ask you to go through the rowers pause interest are a lo of them. that tiger woodses are set to play ball again. the other one, chelsea clinton expected to get married on martha's vineyard. do you know which is fact or fiction. they denied chelsea clinton getting married there. i asked tiger woods. it's a rumor but nobody has any proof of it. when i was talking to the reporter from "vineyard gazette," he said what celebrity hasn't been mentioned. they're talking about oprah, tiger woods. there's no confirmation of anything. it's just rumors that seem to be bubbling up on their own. and the only thing president obama said yesterday when he was asked if he would play golf with tiger woods during his vacation is that he, meaning president obama, is going to be playing some golf. >> i was just wondering if tiger would let him win. it's probably the p.c. thing to do. >> i don't think so. >> i beat tiger, whoo-hoo. if you're wondering who's picking up the tab, heres the deal. the obamas are paying for a portion of the $35,000 rental. the white house is picking up the service. two politics fighting against health care. the other side is filling people's heads with myths and mistruths. >> we've all heard the charge that reform will somehow bring about a government takeover of health care. i know that sounds scary to many folks. it sounds scary to me. here's the thing. it's not true. good morning. good morning to you. i want to get a ten nor of things on how nervous you think the white house is or should be at the point in the game. >> they're pretty nervous. a lot of the stuff he's done so far this year is stuff he felt he had to do, the stimulus package and the bailout crisis. this is one of the fing things he watt wanted to do, what he campaigned on, and it's in real trouble. the polls are going south on him and it's about file for him to take a vacation. hee needs a little bit of a break. >> do you thing the white house really can do anything at this point. does the president risk losing sup part of his own base by come promoensing? >> it's really trick ychl e he wants to have them on here so he can say this is americans coming on here to have a national plan. but at the same time, there was the hint that the president might be backing away from public option. they've got to be doing a lot of overnights at the white house counting on capitol hill, looki looking to see how they can get enough votes to pass this thing. >> i want to talk about cash for clunkers because it's been a hugely popular program. it ends 8:00 p.m. monday night. the dealers who are dealing with this have seen a huge influx of this some hiring workers to keep one the demand. who are the political winner es? >> clearly the administration think they're the winner. it's humly popular. let time the government gives away free money, that's popular. that's what's happened here. a large number approached the program. we expect a huge surge. but the winner clearly is the administration here. the question is whether the economy gets a real boost out of this or whether this is just sort of a short time sugar high for the you'd industry and we'll see those number over the next cup of mom and whether this has real lasting impact or whether it's some taxpayers asking other folks the buy new kays. >> theirs for joining u. sin city down on her luck. the unproimt hate ras hit an all-time high. many of the jobs leaving los angeles coming from a slump in convention business. yu're watching "msnbc saturday." 6 access to favorite courses chef's meal with pommes frites perhaps a night at the theater with extra special seats additional hotel night, our treat your world in perfect harmony: priceless look for world on your mastercard to get rewards and offers that matter to you. according to a study presented by better homes and gardens, definity color recapture. it corrects the look of wrinkles and discoloration. 50,000 voters. one brilliant winner. kids who don't eat breakfast aren't getting the nutrition they need to keep their bodies strong. 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(announcer) find it in the allergy aisle next to other zyrtec® products. developments on hurricane bill as we give you a live look at things going on right now. on elbow beach on the island of bermuda, things looking much better than they did yesterday, even having reports of horizontal rain sheets, if you can imagine that. on the east coast the residents of florida and new england bracing for high winds and rip currents. we'll bring you the updates. this weekend we talk about the quentin therrien tenofilm. the buzz grew with the first-ever twitter. the tweet verdict, another tarantino classic and it turns out twitter has become an increasingly popular way. before we talk tweet, a bit of brad pitt's performance in the movie. >> you probably heard we ain't in the prison-taking business. we're in the killer business. business is booming. joining me live. any reason to put on brad pitt, it's all good. let's just look at him. so let's talk about the tweeting. this is a pretty big shift because people can go see movies, walk away, and within seconds get their opinions out there. >> that's right. >> are you seeing an effect from this? >> absolutely. and hollywood is a little bit nervous about this because, of course, word of mouth has always affected it. now we're seeing a drop-off overnight, up to 40%. it's really an instantaneous rea. >> you think tweet is -- >> it's safe, you can blast your opinion out to hundreds, thousands of people. as we know it, people are obsessed with celebrities. celebrities are tweeting. you have normal people following them and all their opinions are out there, too, for good, for bad. >> let's listen to a kule of tweets we picked up from "inglorious because bass tards. here's one. how much does this build with the movie and keep the movie's momin item going? is there a way to gauge this at this point? >> you can't gauge it specifically. of course, it's all about momentum in hollywood. people want to get in on the action, they want to see it in the opening weekend. everybody's talking about it. you don't e want to miss out on the big thing everybody's talking about and the company which produced "inglorious basterds" has done a good thing. people wanted access through twitter. so that's a great way. >> that is good. now people who may not have such a celebrity name, i mean if quentin therriarantino twitter, consider the source. but other people behind the scenes, hollywood types, they can use it too. >> absolutely. if they're talking about how fantastic it is. a celebrity who's not affiliated with the movie talks about how fantastic it is, you're talking about, wow, i'med isly interested. they have no reason to say this is fantastic but yet they love it. of course, we value the celebrities' opinions in this day and age. >> we value you. can we show this really quick? can you see this, guys? we're going to do something on jon. he's a dirt bag. >> yeah. not so much. >> here's a reason to watch what you put on your facebook page. in a survey 35% employers say they look for racy comments as well as drinking or drugs. be ware, everyone. yo u're watching "msnbc saturday." i'm meteorologist todd santos. we're looking at number of spots especially along the east coast. of course hurricane bill passing along the east coast. major effect, high wave action. meanwhile into sunday looking l especially out west. southwest isolated showers. wow, is this... fiber one honey clusters? yes. it's delicious. delicious. i know. but it can't have... can't have about half a day's worth of fiber? i assure you it does. i was expecting... expecting sawdust and cardboard? i know. i can only taste... only taste the crunchy clusters, honey, and brown sugar. no madam, i don't have esp. ok. i'll take a box, but you probably already knew that. 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what's behind all of this? >> reporter: good morning, alex. is it a strange story. this is an issue that has been a part of women's sports for decades. caster's 18 years old from south africa a relatively unknown runner until this year. showed up at junior championships and shaved eight seconds off of her best time in the 800 meeters from the year before. then showed up aat world championships this berlin this week and won handedly by two seconds. raised red flags for the sports federation that monitors the races. they decided to launch this gender investigation. they say she has not been doping. so they're going to bring in a team of doctors to determine whether she's male or female. her supporters as well as south african sports officials are fearing that the way this has been handled, it should not be this public a process. it is both public and of course humiliating for this 18-year-old. alex? >> you can imagine. how long is it going to take them to figure this out? >> reporter: well, i mean, you wouldn't blame someone for thinking this should be a fairy easy thing to determine. >> right. >> reporter: but actually it requires a battery of tests. they're going to be bringing in geneticists, psychologist a team of doctors. it's not just about crow mow sewns or hormones, it's not just about physiology. the lines are fairly blurred. it is, in some respects, a doctor told me kind of an arbitrary decision. so this panel is really going to be responsible for determining sex and gender. that's a lot of power for a panel to have and of course it's not just the gold medal on the line here. >> okay. stephanie gosk, many thanks. see you later on this morning. nearing the end of the road for the popular cash for clunkers program. auto dealers bracing for a possible last-minute rush of car shops are this weekend. joining me live to break down the winners and losers, david welch, the detroit bureau chief with ""business week."" good morning to you. >> good morning. >> what do you think we're going to see think weekend? a lot of people making a big rush to trade in clunkers the final weekend of the program? >> yeah. i think you'll see a lot of people coming in. traffic for the clunkers program has been dying down, because there was a big initial rush, people thought there would be a billion dollars from the government you saw a huge flurry in the first week and a half and when the government said we'll give 2 billion more it slowed down but now that it's coming to the end people will rush out and try to get a deal, sure. >> let's look at winners and losers overall for the cash for clunkers. gm brought workers back because of the increase the demand for their vehicles. so besides these workers, besides those people that drive off the lot with a new car at reduced price, who are the big winners with this program? >> well, the interesting thing is, it did help car sales, it helps out car companies as well. but a lot of analysts are now looking at this and saying a lot of the sales, talking about 750,000 cars, most of them would have happened anyway. they're saying maybe 70 pshgs 88 70%, 80 rs%. it gives the economy a shot in the arm, helps car companies clear out inventory. the dealers did well with this, too. they make a cut on all of the sales. so they got some action in their showroom that they badly needed, as well. >> what about losers, because there are reports dealers are dropping out in the program early because they're afraid they're not going to get paid. so far only 7% have been reimbursed. could this program end up squeezing dealers too much? >> well, that's why some of them are bowing out. the way this works, if a person trades in their clunker and buys a car they get 3500 or $4,500 from the government but the dealer fronts that money, the dealer puts the cash into the deal and the dealer himself gets reimbursed later on. the government has been so slow to pay, the dealers fronted so much cash for other deals that they didn't have any more cash to front for new ones so they had to bow out of the program. some literally didn't have the money to keep doing deals, they doesn't get a bank to finance it or front the cash, so they had to back away from the program. they will most likely eventually get paid, unless the deal that they already cut didn't get -- didn't qualify. but some of them, the stuff they didn't have the money to keep going. >> david welch, detroit bureau chief of "business week," thank you. >> thank you. coming up, health care reform. why are canadians crossing the border for medical treatment? should america model its health care system after canada's? 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