in negotiating, so the real test is going to be, frankly, whether president biden can keep his arms around our allies, keep them tough, make them recognize that neither the united states or our allies can stand back and watch the ukraine being invaded by russia. if russia goes into the ukraine, it will send a terrible message to the rest of the world. >> it sure will. leon panetta, as always, sir, appreciate you coming on and sharing your experience and perspective. and thank you all forring with being with us this hour. msnbc's coverage will continue with my friend katy tur right after this quick break. quick bk