Transcripts For MSNBC Morning Joe 20110321

it's another story. >> we expected in a matter of days to be able to turn over the primary responsibility to others. we will continue to support the coalition. we'll be a member of the coalition. we will have a military role in the coalition. we will not have the preeminent role. >> good morning, top of the hour. welcome to "morning joe." a live look at capitol hill. it is monday, march 21st. with us on set, msnbc and "time" magazine senior political analyst, mark halperin. good to have you. we have adjunct senior fellow for middle east studies at the council on foreign relgsz, dan seymour, good to have you back on the show. and i think the "new york times" headlines is the big question, target clear, inten is the not. >> it says it all, really. >> what is the intent, are we at war, dan? >> we're basically at war. >> basically. that seems to be in dispute. >> in a civil war. >> for the last three weeks we said gadhafi had to go. we hadn't formally taken sides. this weekend, we've taken sides. gadhafi has to go. >> that's not the objective. >> there may be ambiguity. the world will view this as a failed intervention if this ends and goadhafi is still in power. >> he's also committed acts of terror against the united states, pan am flight 103 and will use his oil money to exact revenge on us. for all of those who are so seger to engage in a no-fly zone, like they were playing a video game, then the natural consequences that would come from that which pat buchanan warned about from the very beginning, they wake up monday morning and they've gotten exactly what they wanted and exactly what a lot of people have fear >> mark halperin, the object sieve not to get rid of gadhafi. which is confusing. if the objective is humanitarian, there's a double standard we need to address as well, is there not? >> the stated objective is not to get rid of him. the concern not only on capitol hill but the national debate. if anywhere a leader or government is doing bad things to the people, the united states will lead a coalition to interve intervene, we have a lot of work to do. what about china. >> that's what's so ridiculous. in the middle of these crises when it suits some people's agenda, they'll say we have to go and rescue a suffering people. you know what, you have about 100 countries to do that in. this is, willie geist, this is once again the united states getting engaged in yet another -- third war in a muslim country. >> third war. i was struck over the weekend by words that could come back to haunt people. president obama when he was speaking making the point we need to intervene on behalf of people who were being put down by their leaders in humanitarian crisis. yesterday, bob gates said we'll be done in a matter of days. be careful saying that. >> any liberal that beats his or her chest regarding iraq right now, that is using the moral argument we have to go in and help people. i'm sorry. you want to stack up how many people gadhafi has killed versus how many people saddam hussein has killed? it's not a close call. we have to be careful with these hypocritical statements. >> the arab league will probably back off by the next -- over the next couple of days. american military officials are claiming initial success in isolating moammar gadhafi regime after a weekend of punishing allied air attacks in libya. according to u.s. officials, coalition strikes have successfully crippled gadhafi's air defenses and a no-fly zone is effectively in place over the country. although gadhafi himself is not a target of what is being called operation odyssey dawn, one of the strikes caused extensive damage to the libyan leader's tripoli compound last night. at this hour, gadhafi's whereabouts remain unknown. he has vowed to fight a long, drawn out war with western forces. making the rounds on the sunday talk shows, admiral mike mullen stressed that the u.s. role in libya would be limited but he did not give an exact date of how long the u.s. would remain involved. >> there's no one that understands better than i that the stress and the strain that we've been under for a long time in our tenth year of war, both in iraq and in afghanistan. that said, we are within our capability and capacity to be able to execute this mission. the directions have been given to me, it is limited. it is very focused and in that regard, we're more than able, as has been shown in the last 24 hours to carry it out and carry it out very effectively. expectations are that we will continue to support the mission, particularly with unique capabilities that we have, which would include intelligence support, jamming capabilities, and focus on the continued enforcement of the no-fly zone and the mission overall. but i don't have an exact date in mind and i don't have -- i haven't been given a date by the president where u.s. military participation here would end. >> asked about the end game in libya, mullen said there was a chance gadhafi could stay in power. >> certainly the goals of this campaign right now again are limited and it isn't about seeing him go. bids supporting the united nations resolution which talked to limiting or eliminating the -- his ability to kill his own people as well as support the humanitarian efforts. >> the mission could be accomplished and gadhafi could remain in power. >> that's potentially one outcome. >> dan senor, if moammar gadhafi survives, this is the libya we have, split down the middle, eastern libya, benghazi, supported by the west and a western libya with tripoli as the capital, supported by russia and china getting all of their oil while moammar gadhafi is free to launch terror attacks against the united states for as long as he lives. and he will. he will use that oil money to kill americans. we're not at a point now, since the line has been crossed where he can survive in power, are we? >> no. what that will look like is human catastrophe, revenge killing, crackdown, refugee crisis in the region, hundreds of thousands of libyans poring over other country's borders. this will be a war that effectively the war will see as obama lost. the president said three weeks ago gadhafi must go. here's a country that -- the entire country is the size of baghdad. its military is about 50,000 people. 90% of the population is on the water, has access to the mediterranean. the middle east and north africa and iron view this as a relatively easy, quote, unquote, military operation. if america can't do this, if america leaves gadhafi in power, american will look weaker until the region. >> gadhafi must go was said many times by this president and yet this mission is not intent on bringing him down. so i guess the question is -- >> let's just break that fiction right now. that is a fiction. do they not know, mark halperin, inside the white house that they have to drive him from power now for the reasons i stated. because if he stays in power, we've got a very angry man with oil money who will use it to kill americans on u.s. soil. because all of these people that wanted to rush in and said we have to go in and start a war with a third muslim power. this is what they have set loose. >> i agree. at this point there's no other alternative or outcome that's acceptable for america's interest in the region. but it's not a sure thing that he can be driven from power or that if he is driven from power that the vacuum that's left is to american's advantage. it's a dangerous line that's been krosd but it has been crossed. >> the inten is the humanitarian, the intent is to stop these people from killing their own people. what then makes our choices different in libya from those in bahrain. >> also, though, in sudan on the same continent in the 1990s, there were 2 million sudanese that were murdered in a barbaric civil war and the united states didn't send any troops there. >> right. >> 2 million. so at the same time, we were so horrified by what was going on in the balkans, where maybe tens of thousands of people were being killed. not 2 million. that we went ahead and sent troops into the balkans. i would suggest because it felt good and because it was in europe and not africa. the double standard in u.s. foreign policy is staerging. >> what's it about? >> there has always been throughout the history of u.s. foreign policy this incredible double standard. just because america doesn't go around making the world perfect, doesn't mean we shouldn't pick our spots to make the world better. >> why are we picking this spot? the truth. >> if you look at hillary clinton, susan rice, samantha power, they are all focused on genocidal issues. clinton was obviously tied to the clinton administration. susan rice worked on africa issues during the clinton administration. what is one of their greatest regrets? turning a blind eye to rwanda. you look at samantha power who has been deeply immersed in jish iss -- issues of genocide. >> no other reason? >> we go now to china? >> no. >> is samantha powers going to suggest we go to china? >> she might suggest that. i'm not saying that's in u.s. foreign policy. >> i'm just saying, this is staggering that this is foreign policy. this is as a "financial times" article suggested, this is foreign policy based on emotion more than strategy. >> as a strategic matter, if you had human catastrophe in the heart of north africa, refugee crisis throughout -- peeling out of -- flowing out of libya, it would have enormous destabilizing effects in what's already a brittle and potentially volatile region right now in the heart of the region than america has tremendous interests. so libya imolympiading and having hundreds of thousands of people slaughtered would actually have -- be a serious strategic setback. >> you're sure that would have happened here, hundreds of thousands of people? >> joe, it is always easier to make the case against military action and talk about the costs of military action than it is the cost of military inaction. making the case -- >> not in washington. >> it's always a subjective argument. that's what we have to do here, over and over and over again. >> we always have people who have never worn uniforms before to decide it's time to go. i'm reminded of the battle between colin powell and madeleine albright. colin powell said his first instinct is the to stay out. for some reason in washington, d.c., these days, over the past 20 years, the instinct has always been, madeline al brile t albright's instinct, go in. >> this is a de facto wag the dog. this is not a popular regime in the region. that's the reason the arab league got on board with this. it is distracting us from what's going on in bahrain, syria, where repressive governments are cracking down on peaceful dissent violence. >> we're not going to act there. >> those are harder cases for the u.s. military intervention in bahrain on the side of the protesters, inconceivable. intervention on behalf of protesters in syria, inconceivable because of the power of the syrian government. this is an easy one. that's what's attractive to them. >> this is the news we need to be talking about also. over the weekend syria exploded. this has been one of the most repressive regimes. if you look at the situation on the ground there, so many parallels to egypt. >> yes. >> and now even syria is starting to explode. >> and add yemen to that list. there's beenslaughter in the streets of yes, ma' s of yemen. >> i'm sure we'll be there. >> she'll have to write another book and talk about the killing in yemen. >> i'm serious. let's talk about what this really is about. i don't like the veil of -- >> our troops are not being sent in. our troops are not on the ground. i think it's inevitable we will be on the ground in libya in some way, even if it's just intelligence and special operations forces th. >> that's good. that's good. that will be our third -- >> we're running out of names, operation enduring freedom. >> operation let's just tell the truth. we'll have the latest on the nuclear situation in japan. a lot of japan to get to. japan news. also, congressman barney frank will be on the set, republican senator john barrasso and senator robert menendez as well as al sharpton. >> is barnicle here somewhere? >> i walked into the studio and he was slumped over the desk. after the break, an exclusive first look at politico's top stories of the morning. just when you thought your bracket still had a chance. >> they have no chance. >> notre dame runs into big trouble in a late game. first, let's go to bill karins. seriously? >> seriously. >> just hide. >> dude! dude! we want spring. kill the groundhog. >> exactly. this is not going to be a pretty week for areas from d.c. up to boston. if it's not snowing, it will probably be raining. that's the case this morning. we are watching snow and rain. let's track it for you. right now we're watching the d.c. area, rain from the winchester locations to hagerstown. that's going to slide through d.c. and baltimore in about a half hour to 45 minutes from now. it will abe slow morning commute. the rainfall that's now in the new york city area is very light. this area of white, that's snow in upstate portions of pennsylvania through new york, that's going to slide through albany and boston. you'll see snow flakes in boston, not a lot of accumulations. the heavier snows will be up there in northern new england. it's a wet morning for everyone. it will be a drier afternoon. middle of the country looking just fine. nice still from texas to florida. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. 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[ male announcer ] get zyrtec®'s proven allergy relief what are you looking at? logistics. ben? the ups guy? no, you see ben, i see logistics. logistics? think--ben is new markets. ben is global access-- china and beyond. ben is a smarter supply chain. ben is higher margins. happier customers... everybody wins. logistics. exactly. see you guys tomorrow. in an interview with abc, donald trum says it's strange nobody remembers president obama from childhood. everybody remembers little trum because he was the little kid going welcome to the sand box and play area. this is the number one sand box in the world. huge sand castles. please enjoy yourself on the beautiful marvel monkey bars. this is my beautiful girlfriend, natasha, she's 2 1/2 years old. nap time, you're tired. >> wow. 20 past the hour. time now to take a look at the morning papers. "financial times," qatar became the first arab country to confirm it would saend siftance by sending fighter jets to help maintain the no-fly zone. the seattle times, the last major wireless company based in the seattle area, t-mobile is being sold to at&t. if approved your at&t phone may work. >> wow. cool. >> the $39 million deal would make at&t the nation's largest wireless carrier over verizon. the big question for t-mobile subscribers, what do you do now? and does this take care of -- maybe this takes care of the problem. >> maybe. >> t-mobile has always been a great service. "usa today," wyclef jean reportedly fine after being treated for a gunshot wound to the hand. he was shot saturday night in port-au-prince while campaigning for a fellow performer who is running for president. and the houston chronicle, the 41st president, george h.w. bush will be honored at a kennedy center gala for a lifetime of public service, including his time as a naval aviator after pearl harbor. it will be aired a week from today. let's go to willie geist. he's signature at the politico desk. >> actually he's sitting right here. >> we go down to the politico desk. >> look how adorable he is. >> if it's 1976, year of the cat, what can it be? >> it can mean only one thing. >> hey, patrick, how are you? >> hi, guys, how are you? >> all right. the joke's getting old. >> yeah, yeah. >> patrick, let's dig into the members of the house, not just republicans but democrats as well going after the white house for not consulting them on libya. dennis kucinich calling for impeachment, perhaps. what's going on? >> that's a little harsh. >> they are giving mike allen a preview of what they'll hear from house republicans in this morning's playbook. they are sort of saying it was an unclassified cattle call, saying they have not done a serious and substantive attempt to work with congress on this issue. i think you'll hear a bit more about that. and they very much are boostered by the fact that john mccain has come out and criticized obama's handling of this. you have richard lugar, normally a reliable ally of the president on foreign policy matters expressing some worry and caution on this issue. liberals as you mention, michael moore, dennis kucinich, have come out about this. you couple that with the fact that you have an american public that is very much weary of another war potentially in the middle east. i think that the obama administration certainly has its work cut out on the politics of the situation. >> willie geist, you were talking about a "wall street journal" article this weekend. >> yes. >> and explain how the day was won by using, in a sense, collective guilt from the 1990s. >> part of it is something that dan brought newspaper our last segment which in this "wall street journal" explains, quoting one arab diplomat, samantha power, national security council and susan rice, the u.n. ambassador went to them and said we cannot have another rwanda on our hands. reflecting on what happened in the 19 0s, president clinton called its his greatest regret as president, that he didn't go in and intervene there. perhaps lingering doubts of the '90s playing into policy today. >> susan rice and samantha power, accord together "wall street journal" helped win the day by, again, saying we have to go in for humanitarian reasons. >> yes, on humanitarian grounds. >> thank you, patrick. >> thank you, guys. >> i never really understood why they weren't as concerned about the 2 million people who were killed in sudan four years later if a civil war. >> right. >> they keep going back to rwanda which of course was horrific. a million people killed. >> i think samantha power would argue she's worried about what's happening -- in sudan. she's written extensively about it. many people in the community that advocate for military intervention on behalf of humanitarian causes would argue, just because we don't have the resources to fix every humanitarian problem in the world doesn't mean we shouldn't rally when there's a mission that's doable and build snashlgt support for it. >> as long as they're on the front lines, you know what, if they want to carry a gun into battle instead of using our men and women as toy soldiers, they can fight the wars. >> what you're basically arguing for is that civilian control of our military and civilian decisionmaking is somehow a flawed concept. only people in uniform have the right -- >> i'm not suggesting that. there are a lot of people who don't have anybody in the military, don't know anybody in the military that, again, as colin powell said in the 1990s, look upon our armed forces as toy soldiers that they can move strategically across a map to make themselves feel better. when we can't cure all of the world's ill, so now our troops are stretched in iraq. our troops are stretched in afghanistan. now our troops are going into libya. the rotations, the troop row takings over the past 15 years, even before bush came in, even before bush came in, have been horrific. because there are politicians in washington, d.c. whose first instinct is to always go in. always ask for sacrifice for our men and women in uniform. always do it to feel good about themselves or to forward their own political agenda. it is our soldiers who have been suffering for 15 years and people -- i don't care whether it's on the left with samantha power or the right, boys in washington, d.c. that are blogging right now in suspenders saying send them here, send them there. in the end it's much easier to say from the safety of washington, d.c., that it is when you actually have to say good-bye to your family for the fifth time in three years. >> there are plenty of people who served in uniform who support going in for humanitarian reasons. in fact, many of the former military officers have commented on the libyan operation says the complain is the not that we're going in, the complain is the that we didn't do it sooner, that the military operation will be that much harder. there are senior military officers who are frustrated when secretary gates said a few days ago that this is not doable, that a no-fly zone is not a viable action. they're like, are you kidding? what message does that send to other regimes in the region. >> u.s. foreign policy is simply unsustainable, unless we have a draft, it is unsustainable. and i don't want a draft and i don't want another 20 years of endless wars. >> i do want a way to make our society completely vest in -- >> i agree with that. >> with the operations we have abroad. right now it is -- >> the gulf between the -- >> guess what, the reason the gulf is wider than ever is the reason we send troops across the world like they're toy soldiers. every time we go to war, enact a war tax. we'll see how the debate works then. 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[ male announcer ] wells fargo. together we'll go far. got the mirrors all adjusted?st you can see everything ok? just stay off the freeways, all right? i don't want you going out on those yet. and leave your phone in your purse, i don't want you texting. >> daddy... ok! ok, here you go. be careful. >> thanks dad. >> and call me--but not while you're driving. we knew this day was coming. that's why we bought a subaru. if we don't expand the efforts we'll require heroic work done that could be, you know, quite devastating for the workers. >> what do we mean by that? >> that means they could very well use their lives. >> an official with the u.s. government told the japanese your people are going to have to die to save that plant unless you let us help you? >> yes. >> 32 past the hour, in japan, new problems at the country's crippled nuclear complex are overshadowing some success at cooling the plant's overheated reactors over the weekend. this morning, workers at the facility were evacuated after gray smoke rose from the plant's third reactor. that comes after officials said they had successfully restored water pumps to two other reactors, putting them under control in a state known as a cold shutdown. however, the crisis far from over with the discovery of radiation tainted vegetables and tap water adding to public fears about contaminated food and drink. all that as officials now predict the death toll from the country's earthquake and tsunami will exceed 18,000. energy secretary steven chu weighed in yesterday an concerns about the japanese government's handling of the crisis. >> there's no evidence that i've ever heard that the japanese were holding back. we're there giving their people and us reports of what's going on. it's sometimes hard to tell because a lot of times the sensors are out. this is say place where there's no power. so we are getting information from them. we have confidence in that information. and we've actually loaned them and are working with them on other monitoring equipment. >> and now back to the new developments out of libya. joining us now from tripoli, nbc news' jim maceda and jim, with all that's going on, let's start with this. what effects so far are the air strikes having on the fighting on the ground there? >> if you see the pictures from yesterday outside of benghazi, it's hardly recognizable, compared to the same road in the same location just two days ago. at that time, there were masses of forces of pro-gadhafi forces, artillery tanks pushing relentlessly into benghazi. now, 20 miles outside benghazi, those pictures we saw of just sheer devastation, tanks, artillery, bodies, these are all pro-gadhafi forces and that came from a combination of french and u.s. air strikes. we understand that the front line has moved from benghazi now all the way back to ajdubiya. rebel forces have not yet come to fill na in that vacuum. we're told from people like jim miklaszewski's forces, in fact there's a deal being worked out and the united states and other coalition forces are telling the rebels to hold fire, not to push, not to confront at this time. so that's one interesting development. the other is that while the cease-fire is supposed to be in effect, and there are air strikes in tripoli, around tripoli and around misrata, today as we speak, gadhafi forces have pushed their tanks and troops into misrata, the third largest city in this country and are holding it, seven people we understand have been killed there today. and now, those soldiers have changed their clothes, they look like plain clothesed civilians, armed civilians, just as the rebels do often. there are reports of masses of human shield supporters coming into the center of misrata to support the gadhafi regime. interesting things going on even while right now in tripoli it remains relatively quiet. mika? >> jim, where is moammar gadhafi at this point? he has vowed a long war. how is information from him being disseminated and what do we know about his whereabouts? >> we don't know where he is. he hasn't been seen since friday. we assume he is alive, that he is hunkered down in a bunker. he has every day since friday sent messages, recorded audio messages to -- that have been broadcast on state television and he has remained as defiant as ever, calling this a clone cal crusader war that he will not lose. mika? >> jim maceda, live in tripoli. thank you. >> who runs if gadhafi is in a situation, dan senor that saddam hussein was in? who runs his army, his country? it's not like -- >> it's a one-man show right now, which is say big problem. if you behead his regime, we don't know what's underneath there. no cohesive libyan military units have flipped over to the rebel side. no senior military officers have defected yet. folks in the pentagon are saying they are hoping by the announcement of u.s. strikes, it will create the impetus for them to come could our side. next hour, we bring in retired general barry mccaffrey. zbl also, andrea mitch. >> is barnicle ever going to get him here? seriously. [ female announcer ] sometimes you need tomorrow to finish what you started today. for the aches and sleeplessness in between, there's motrin pm. no other medicine, not even advil pm, is more effective for pain and sleeplessness. motrin pm. the u.s. has a tradition, of course of americans as we traveled the foreign soil, we don't criticize our president's foreign policy, even as friendly as soil as india is, i won't criticize what his foreign policy has been but to answer your question, certainly there would have been more decisiveness, less dithering, more decisiveness. >> wait a minute. but didn't she just -- where was that? >> india. >> okay. >> friendly soil, though. >> it's different. >> it is 41 past the hour. it's time now for our weekly segment, driving the week. >> she says she's not going to criticize him on foreign soil but she criticizes him on foreign soil. >> it's id odd iotic. >> the dixie chicks sing a song and all of us on the right freak out. >> that's a good one. >> when i'm seeing soccer matches in barcelona and someone asks me how is president barack obama doing? just fine. you have to follow through. right? >> lost her sense of irony. >> was she being ironic? >> oh! >> my bad. >> missed it. >> all right. >> irony actually has been outlawed in the republican party since 1972. >> i have so many things i could say right now. >> go ahead. don't be ironic, i won't get it. >> mark halperin gives us his best political stories to watch out for the week ahead. i take it number one is libya. >> everything going to drive this week is overseas, libya e number one. he has to say more about this. i think today he will take questions. i think we'll be driving this story all week. >> what about barack obama saying no american troops on the grounded? no boots on the ground. >> i think he believed that when he said it. you can imagine a lot of scenarios within this week where it's going to require some sort of troops on the grounded. >> look at that. look at that. all of these people, mike barnicle -- sorry to jump in on your drive, mark halperin. >> i'll park, put it in neutral. >> all of these people from samantha power on the left, the neocons on the right that want to invade all of these countries have no idea what the consequences are. or if they do, they just don't give a damn. >> the world remains a dangerous place. if we are going to intervene every place where there's a hint of trouble on the horizon, our military isn't big enough, our budget isn't big enough and our patience isn't big enough to do it. at the end of the day, if gadhafi is not dead or driven from power, this mission is say failure. >> but it's not to get him. >> we've already spent over $100 million in this libya operation with the missiles we've sent. we have spent $100 million at the same time we have to cut schools, infrastructure, we have to cut r & d, the very thing the chinese are doubling down on to beat us this century economically. $2 billion a week in afghanistan. we don't have the troops and we don't have the money. >> well, i still think they're being unclear about the intent of libya. while we go to japan, keep in mind, i'm sure the concept at least the white house is driving is that the president is keeping his eye on jobs and working on that front while he's dealing with libya and now japan. >> the president can do more than one thing at a time, no question. japan has been overshadowed by libya overt week en. but this is still a huge story for the world. we're not just looking at changes of way of life around japan but disruptions around the world. a lot of japanese products that the united states and other countries rely on will ab effected. the japanese brand internationally will ab effected in agriculture and all sorts of things. the japanese government still extraordinarily weak in dealing with this crisis hasn't figured this all out. >> what's the third story driving the week. >> it's ground zero for the double standard in our foreign policy. bahrain. >> i think this is the biggest challenge right now. even with the air war in libya, what's going on in bahrain where the saudis are participating, a repressed minority is asking for political rights. and the united states because of the strategic importance of the basis there is not engaged in an air war to try to liberate the people of bahrain to say the least. instead are quietly urging the government to not crack down. but they are and this is where all these factors come into place, stability versus freedom. the potential influence of the iranians. >> certainly we're just not going to allow that to happen. >> this has been a pretty good week for iran. >> yes. >> it's been a great week for iran. no doubt about it. you look at what happened in bahrain, as willie brought up earlier, mike, yemen, horrible demonstrations and shootings in yemen. look what's happened in libya. >> syria. >> and syria. which really is the biggest -- one of the biggest game changers that's happening up in syria. this is a remarkable week. the events just keep coming at us more quickly at any time since 1989. >> we can be optimistic where things could work in a positive direction and work out like egypt. not today. >> 52 people were shot dead in the street of yemen in the street alone by the government. 52 people shot in broad daylight. do we intervene there? >> this is say big problem. i think it would be better if our intent was gadhafi, to bring him down. >> if they come out and say what they're going to do? >> we don't like to murder foreign leaders, though. >> unlenot say murder him but h must go. i'm sorry. who am i quoting? >> barack obama. >> right. >> does anybody here think we do not have right now american troops on the ground in libya? >> no. i mean -- i think that is exactly the case. >> special ops. >> i think special ops were there a long time ago. they have the lasers pointed at the buildings and the tanks. >> those are the three stories mark has driving the week. go to joe.msnbc.com for mark halperin's full list. is he going to do it? >> get ready. >> i love this part. >> this is big. >> mark will be doing a live web chat. >> chatty kathy. >> yes. he's going to do it again. go to our website to submit a question for mark halperin. >> some of the craziest images. >> amazing. >> that webcam stuff, awkward. >> still ahead -- >> check with your local cable providers to see if it's legal to stream mark halperin's -- >> congressman barney frank will be here on set. willie, what do you have? we get into the ncaa tournament. not a good day for the big east. late last night after you went to bed, notre dame, the latest big east team to fall. the highlights of all the games when "morning joe" comes right back. ♪ i was diagnosed with copd. i could not take a deep breath i noticed i was having trouble. climbing the stairs, working in the garden, painting. my doctor suggested spiriva right then. announcer: spiriva is the only once-daily inhaled maintenance treatment for copd, which includes chronic bronchitis and emphysema. i love what it does. it opens up the airways. announcer: spiriva does not replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms. stop taking spiriva and call your doctor right away if your breathing suddenly worsens, your throat or tongue swells, you get hives, have vision changes or eye pain, or have problems passing urine. tell your doctor if you have glaucoma, problems passing urine, or an enlarged prostate, as these may worsen with spiriva. also, discuss the medicines you take, even eye drops. side effects include dry mouth, constipation, and trouble passing urine. it makes me breathe easier. i can't do everything i used to do. but there's a lot i can do that i was struggling with. announcer: ask your doctor if once-daily spiriva is right for you. lord of the carry-on. sovereign of the security line. you never take an upgrade for granted. and you rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. and go. you can even take a full-size or above. and still pay the mid-size price. i deserve this. [ male announcer ] you do, business pro. you do. go national. go like a pro. oh, yes. it's monday but it's time. >> for news you can't use. >> we're going to do sports. >> what? >> because it's so useless. >> you can't use your bracket anymore, as chris licht pointed out. let's start with the late games in college basketball. last night, big east player of the year, ben hansbrough leading notre dame. the knowles get out to a strong start here. catch and shoot three. florida state up 11 at the half. ben hansbrough tried to keep it close, burying a three here. he was 5 of 13 shooting last night. florida state runs away, blowing out the two seed notre dame who had a great season, 71-57. >> what's wrong with the big east. >> the big east does not have a good day. >> who does fsu play next? another bracket buster, bcu. a lot of people thought they shouldn't be in the tournament, taking on third seed purdue. joey rodriguez puts in a reverse layup. bcu ran away with this game, beating up purdue, 9 -78 after they beat georgetown by 20. >> wow. >> that's their third win in five days. bcu had to win a play-in game as well. >> at least syracuse is there to carry them through, the big east. chris licht, syracuse. >> he stands by his team. >> that's my dark horse. >> turn away, chris. >> battle of big east teams, three seed syracuse, 11 seed marquette. >> this will be easy for syracuse. >> with 30 seconds to go, marquette -- >> which ones are they. >> darrius johnson, left hoif handed three. >> but they still win, right? >> i'm afraid they didn't. syracuse couldn't get the job done. golden eagles moving on to the sweet 16, beating syracuse. >> what happened? >> did you see that arizona game. >> five seed arizona, four seed texas. game tied at 67 with a minute to go. brown of texas drive, hits a jumper in the lane to put texas up two. arizona didn't score, so texas got the ball back. watch what happens here, though. five-second violation. he didn't get the time out. down two. the layup and the foul. the layup ties the game. the free throw breaks the tie, giving arizona a one-point lead. brown drives, no foul called. can't get the ball to go. arizona hangs on to beat them, 70-69. >> ouch, ouch. >> a couple great games yesterday. >> duke/michigan. >> temple -- >> michigan had a chance at the end. >> he missed a short runner there, did michigan that could have tied the game. let's check out the sweet 16. starts thursday. in the west, number one seeded duke takes on arizona, uconn faces off against san diego state. >> go, uconn. >> jimmer fredette, byu taking on two seed florida and butler, how about butler? butler is back in the sweet 16. they'll play wisconsin. friday in the east, marquette, taking on the second seeded tar heels. ohio state gets kentucky. >> that will be a good one. >> southwest kansas taking on richmond. look at kansas' bracket, they get a 12 seed and play the winner of an 11 seed, 10 seed game. >> 10, 11, 12, has that ever happened before. >> no, it's not. >> thanks for teeing me up for that one. >> i'm going to win the pool, make up my bracket next sunday night. >> are we doing this thing here? this has nothing to do with anything. okay. >> ask tim how my brack set doi? >> you're in the middle some where. >> i'm in the middle. >> a lot of syracuse fans drowning their sorrows in booze last night. speaking of booze, look at this video here. this woman didn't get the prompt service she wanted. she did not get it. hold on, i'm helping another customer. >> she needs her vodka. >> she goes down the aisle and trashes the place. >> looks like fun. >> she's in court today. this happened in the niyak area here in new york. we'll see what she gets for breaking all the booze. >> oh, dear. >> do you is a story about a reporter and a car. >> funny you should ask. >> he was in tucson covering the tournament for san diego affiliate. >> yes. >> watch who comes up behind him. >> what? >> the s aztecs have never been able to say that before after a 60-58 win over the university of northern colorado. whoa. they think they have unfinished business here in tucson. i have to thank my camera operator who saved my life by running in front of the truck and making him stop. glad we're still here to report of the next game for the aztecs. >> great job on the camera. >> inspiring. >> isn't it? >> yes. >> what's next? >> congressman barney frank, next on "morning joe." 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>> we're not going to war. >> not going to war. >> welcome back to "morning joe." it's 7:00. >> what was the second? >> we're not getting rid of gadhafi. we are just launching bombs in close proximity to his home. >> joining the table, democratic congressman from massachusetts and ranking member of the house -- representative barney frank. >> mika, a great way to start the 7:00 hour would be if we rolled images of us not going to war. >> okay. >> in libya. >> pentagon officials -- >> here's some image of us not going to war. >> a week enof punishing air attacks have been, quote, very effective in scattering and isolating moammar gadhafi's forces in libya. that's where we're not at war. >> is that war? i'm not an expert. you were in vietnam as a reporter for a while. is that war? it looks like war to me. >> unfortunately in our culture today, a lot of people probably think this is a video game. >> if we spend over $100 million launching missiles over a weekend is that going to war? >> no. that's diminimus. >> you have been talking for decades about what i've been talking about for a we or two. been talking about how the united states is always one that bears the disproportionate impact in all of these conflicts of wars. and it seems you've got lindsey graham and a lot of people, samantha powers in the white house, people on the left and the right that want to send our troops everywhere all the time. it's unsustainable, is it not? >> absolutely. it also doesn't work. i'd be morally conflicted if i thought when we sent american troops in there we always did something good. but for a variety of reasons, we don't, first of all, we overreach. we try to make them into better governments were nicer societies. you can do that with guns from the outside. secondly, it winds up with a lot of anti-americanism. i'm disappointed. my initial reaction was, oh, maybe this is say good thing. for the first time, other people are taking the lead. now i see american air strikes. if it was just missiled launched from ships and we had other forces -- >> there is a difference here. there is the support of the arab league, the gulf states. >> that's helpful, though i see the head of the arab league that's running for president of egypt is now backing down. >> he's now concerned. >> that's exactly my initial reaction was, at least america is playing a more subordinate role. what i'm afraid is happening we're being pushed into a greater role. france is 100 miles from libya. italy is across germany. i am prepared to support an american minor participation in this effort. we have the ships there. we can do it first. i'm afraid i already see it happening, once again, it's america's responsibility to solve the problems of the world. it cost us enormous money and it backfires. i'm not morally conflicted because the iraq war did more harm than good. >> you know, mike, last week, we were talk here about the fact that a lot of people on the right and on the left were critical, we were excited that the european countries stepped out first. i was even more excited that the arab league stepped out. and in fact, i was complimentary of the president. i think just like barney, finally we're not leading, it doesn't fall on the taxpayers of the u.s., the soldiers, sailors and marines. that's not the situation anymore. now we're all in and everybody is turning to us. >> we can sit here and perhaps feel better about this mission, thinking that, well, french planes were the first to fly over libya. >> right. >> and we have the british now. and we have four planes from qatar. the arab league is behind this. in that part of the world, it's us. none of that matters. it's us. the interesting thing that the congressman mentioned to me about four or five years ago on a plane back from washington, sitting next to him in terms the budget, in terms of the cost of all these things, how many troops do we still have overseas in germany, japan? >> hundreds of thousands. after world war ii, the western european countries were poor and defenseless. facing a vicious, brutal dictator, joseph stalin, the second worst man in the world with a big army. america went in to defend them. two of those things have changed. europe is no longer pure and defenseless. there's no longer a savage man on the other side. the only thing that hasn't changed is the tens of billions of american dollars that go to defend them. the largest air force in the world is the u.s. air force, the second largest air force in the world, the u.s. navy. the disproportion is enormous. it does look like they are lapsing to it is america's responsibility. some of my colleagues are upset that france may be in the lead. oh, no, this is america's job, how dare you go in there and be shot at and spend all your money. >> you put it best. the french is 100 miles -- it's right across the water. i've heard conservatives, some progressives saying we should be asahamed that barack obama didnt step out there first. lindsey graham said we should, quote, seize the moment. >> just quickly, mika. we encourage independence. only america can do this, as i read a couple weeks ago. there are a lot of other wealthy nations. europe combined has a larger population, a larger gross domestic product. shame on us for enabling this situation where they can't do anything and they expect us to. >> look at afghanistan, we hear all the time that we need to take the lead in afghanistan. and we need to be there for 2020. if al qaeda reconstitutes in afghanistan it's not like they're going to just attack us. they're going to attack europe. >> in fact, the most recent argument that i think we should point out, the most recent argument my colleagues have given us, we just thwarted an attack on europe by being in afghanistan. american troops and american money thwarted an attack. europeans have all pulled out. >> that's terrific. >> mika, it bears repeating that the cia director says there are 50 al qaeda members spread all across afghanistan. n. ing in afghanistan. >> we're told our troops need to stay there and we need to spend $2 billion a week through 2020? that's insanity. >> we were told there's a humanitarian reason to stay there and that is important. that's clearly the issue in libya. that is what they're saying is a focal point of our strategy there. we did hear the president say gadhafi must go. take a listen to admiral mike mullen on "meet the press" yesterday. >> certainly the goals of this campaign right now, again, are limited. and it isn't about seeing him go. it's about supporting the united nations' resolution which talked to limiting or eliminating the -- his ability to kill his own people as well as support the humanitarian efforts. >> the mission could remain accomplished and gadhafi could remain in power. >> that's certainly one outcome. >> he didn't have the to go? >> we're so confused. >> depends on whether he goes or not. if he doesn't go, we'll have to make the best of that, unfortunately. >> okay. >> i don't think anybody in washington will volunteer to go sit next to him. you may not be targeting. but i don't think if he sold the chair next to him he'd get a lot for us. >> do you think the u.s. government should have informed more? >> i would have informed more. if it was as limited as i had hoped it would be, they clearly should have been telling everybody, you sometimes can't have consultation because you don't want to tip your hand. i don't think gadhafi was unaware this was coming. apparently, again, i was more favorable yesterday when i was asked by "the boston globe" than apparently i should have been. i assumed there was consultation, now hear that there wasn't. i just read last night in new york, i hear new jersey national guard is being mobilized. i don't understand what the new jersey national guard is going to be doing anywhere close to libya. >> let's move from libya to wall street. elizabeth warren is in the middle of a shooting match with conservatives. a lot of back and forth. what's going on there? is she being allowed to do the job that you envisioned her -- >> mostly. but i wish she would be appointed and confirmed. she's a very smart woman. she's a great believer in the free market. she believes in competition. what i founded with a lot of the business people is, they think competition is a great spectator sport. they often have reasons why in their business it would be destructive. the other thing i've learned is we're always talking about the level playing field. we don't have a level playing field. >> by the way, that's what i tell people when they say what's it like when a lobbyist comes into your office? >> i slept through most of the meetings. at the end we always say this, all we want, congressman, is a level playing field. that's all they say, which means give us tax breaks, give us federal subsidies, help us screw our opponents. >> here's an extraordinary physical phenomenon. in the history of the world, there has not been a level playing field and no one has ever been at the top of the level playing field. >> never. >> it's extraordinary. everybody is at the bottom of the playing field. you would think somebody would have been -- >> we just want a level playing field. >> she's a bright, thoughtful person. s there a ideology. here's what they say. you can't have a consumer advocate who's separate from the bank regulators because they won't -- she won't put safety and soundness in the banks first. the objection is her focus is on consumer protection and the other regulators are mostly focused on protecting the banks. you need them both. >> bloomberg study, an extensive bloomberg study came out over the weekend that shows that two big to fail has gotten even bigger, that the banks have become bigger, ten banks control 77%, 78% of the deposits in america. the situation is actually gone from bad to worse. why has that happened? and why what can we do to reverse that trend? >> part of the problem, frankly, we tried in the legislation to offset that some. in fact, the smaller banks liked the bill. we increased, for instance, the amount of deposit insurance from $100,000 to $250,000. we changed deposit insurance so the smaller banks play less per dollar asset. part of it is a public perception. people don't read the laws. sheila bear has just put out her rules. and two big to fail is no longer the case. it should be this. there are some institutions that are too big to fail without us looking at the consequences. the institution fails, we changed the law, the institution goes out of business. the shareholders lose all their money. we may have a payment of some of their debt but even that's going to come from an assessment on the other financial institutions. >> so if citibank goes down -- i just throw citibank out there. >> or any major -- >> it's not going to happen. >> or the like. >> let's say citibank collapsed, the federal government wouldn't bail them out. >> under the law -- first of all, the law the federal reserve reviews to give money to aig, for example, we've abolished that law, section 1503 of the federal reserve. if the federal officials think that the bank's debts are so voluminous, the bank is dissolved. the federal government may decide to pay some of the debts. by law, whatever it pays out has to be record by an assessment of the financial institution. it's exactly what hank pahlsson told us in 2008 he didn't have the authority to do. with lehman brothers or aig he had to pay none of the debts or all the debts. now the answer is give them out of business. >> i will give sarah palin 50% for her. there are debt panels. some of the debts will get paid but only after the institution is resolved and it gets replaced. sheila bear is in charge of it. >> what do you say to americans who -- i don't think it's just on the left. i think there are conservatives that are upset as well. what do you say to people on the left and the right who say we had this huge crisis on september 15th, 2008 and over the next two years, the banks that acted recklessly over the past decade actually got our money and made just amazing profits in 2009 and 2010. these have been two of her best years in history. >> thank you. >> is it the process, is it impossible to beat wall street? >> no. >> what's the situation? >> we had allowed a situation to come where it was so important if they collapsed they would have taken the world down to it. as to the money they got, it is the case, all the money that where the to the banks under the t.a.r.t. has been paid back with interest. >> we made money on t.a.r.p. >> on t.a.r.p. the legislation, by the way, the best pro-manufacturing thing we've done so far, we kept general motors and chrysler in business. you see this thing now, gm has to close down because of japanese manufacturers. the laws were weak. what happened will not happen again. the laws are now a lot tougher. we passed the volcker rule, which the banks hate. we passed a number of things the institutions don't like. no one can defend the ideal of what happened. i believe the law we passed in 2010 prevents a reoccurrence of that. >> it won't happen again. >> if any money is advanced by the federal government to deal with the consequences of those failures, first of institution is dissolved and secondly, the other banks have to pay it back. >> back to elizabeth warren quickly for a second. in this climate, in this congress, could she be confirmed if she were nominated? >> probably not but i want to try it. i think the president is too unwilling to make the fights that don't win. she's an enormously popular, very thoughtful woman. joe has a good point, this is not just the left and the right. the republican party is united against health care and the environment. they're not united against financial reform. the tea party people didn't send people to washington to defend derivatives. i think the fight over elizabeth warren would be worth having. joining us in a few minutes, we have the reverend al sharpton. but first, is president barack obama following in ronald reag reagan's footsteps? andrea mitchell and general barry mccaffrey will join us live to explain. first, let's go to bill karins. it's a rainy morning, it's pouring in some spots and snowing in others. let's take you on a tour. washington, d.c., thunderstorms are rolling through. lightning being reported as well. it will last a half hour to 45 minutes and the heaviest of rains be over in washington, d.c. the worst of the morning drive is now down around d.c. heavy rain will arrive in philadelphia in about a half hour from now. snow reported outside of 287. northern new jersey will pick up two to three inches of snow. interstate 88 is a little slick in the hudson valley. for the forecast today, the worst of it, this morning, the snow will arrive for boston and hartford a little later today. from the deep south, from florida to texas, you're fine, a lot better than our capital. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. ♪ sun in the sky ♪ you know how i feel i'm loving weight watchers new pointsplus program and the edge it's giving me. ♪ freedom is mine ♪ and i know how i feel i never feel deprived. you know how freeing that is? 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>> it has an eerie fieeling to it, doesn't it? it's so strange to have these events come together. when chernobyl happened, no one knew what a chernobyl was. we were thrust into a situation of being asked what was the president's response. the fact is that even today the state department issued an updated warning, a travel warning which includes distributing potassium iodide to all american employees and personnel within the 50-mile radius. they are increasingly concerned about the situation in japan. no matter what they say, mika and joe and everyone up there, we're at war. if it is not american-led in the next few days when they say it is front loaded critics are going to say we are engaged. i was quite surprised to hear congressman frank say that the new jersey national guard is being warned. >> a perfect segue to the general, mike barnicle. >> general, we've all seen the pictures over the weekend of gadhafi's military capabilities in terms of tanks and everything being destroyed from the air. we've heard the president say there were going to be no ground troops, american ground troops in libya. but how do we turn the army against gadhafi, how do we defeat the army without ground forces? how does that happen? >> well, i think the first two days of this is brilliant employment of u.s. air force and naval power. the air cap was sort of political nonsense. we do dominate the air space. they've taken down most of the radars. there are still hundreds of anti-aircraft guns all over the country and ground-to-air missiles. but the real key is whatted amight mullen explained and we're watching on video right now is going after his armored forces, artillery, tanks, armored personnel carriers. that was a hammer he was using on the reblz. temporarily we've given benghazi a reprieve and we'ver itified, i'm sure, gadhafi's his senior officers. by the way, there isn't much of a libyan army. these are tribal organizations. the two key brigades are command by gadhafi family members. so now what's he going to do? he has to get out of the desert with his tanks. they're inside misrata. they'll probably try to withdraw into urban areas and the next step is up to gadhafi. >> it's willie geist, general. what is, as you understand it, or perhaps what should be the standard for united states intervention around the world in these humanitarian and you could call them moral causes? in other words, why not -- why here and not yemen and bahrain and other countries around the world? >> that's fundamentally the political questions the president and congress should address. interesting there hasn't been much discussion of the war powers act of 1973, consultations, will the president now submit a report to congress in accordance with that law while denying its constitutionality. i think in this case, the president and second clinton and ambassador rice and others clearly were motivated primarily by humanitarian concerns. it's clearly something. i was in the jcs when rwanda happened. 800,000 murdered. it is a proposition that could warrant american military intervention. the question is up front, if you say, look, here's the things you're not doing, we're not going to but boots on the ground, we're not going to target gadhafi or go beyond the u.n. resolution, if you have tepid to nonexistent arab support, so far what we've heard is four aircraft may or may not be deploying to the mediterranean. this is say u.s. military operation command by a u.s. army four star general with uk and french participation. so politically we may be on shaky ground but militarily, the first 48 hours have been brillian. >> the mark halperin? >> there was a lost talk by you and others about some of the female members of the foreign policy team in the administration pushing for intervention here. is that overstated at all? the white house is trying to make the case that the president was really driving this. what caused those women toed avery kit intervention in this case rather than in some of the other cases in the region? >> first of all, they do say it was overstated, pushing back hard on that, saying there were plenty of men along the way pushing as well. that was a simplistic analysis, a gender analysis, according to the white house. they also are pointing out that the situation in bahrain, according to them, is different. you is a crown prince and others in that regime actively involved in political reform or what they're describing as political reform. it was secretary gates himself that said it was too timid and tepid and they wanted to see more. they say this is a u.s. ally, there are other interests there but they claim there's no analogy to what's happening with gadhafi. that's their point and how they've been briefing it. it is true that susan rice in particular was aggressively arguing this case. hillary clinton as you recall initially said the no-fly zone was under active consideration, then seemed to back off after secretary gates in his testimony, i guess about a week and a half ago, argued against it. then it all turned. she said the game changer was the arab league support. but what we saw yesterday was a wavering arab league support. the outbeginning head of the arab league voiced some concerns saying it had gone beyond the u.n. resolution. they quickly called him -- the president called king abdullah in jordan. people at the state department were calli ining aramussa getti him to say he was misquoted. you can see how the arab support is critical and also not as solid as they might like. >> people have been talking about how u.s. troops have been stretched, act as if history began in 2001 when we sent troops into afghanistan. going back to the 1990s, we had people, generals and admirals coming to the armed services committee on capitol hill, complaining about how the troops were stretched. how troop rotations were terrible, especially for men and women of the army. because 200,000 people basically taken out of the armed services in the early 1990s. we're fighting a war in afghanistan. we're fighting a war in iraq. we're now engaging in libya. how much longer can the united states continue to ask what it asks of its men and women in uniform? >> well, joe, you ask a fundamental question. you know, a strategy is a conceptual architecture matched by the resources to wary it out. and clearly right now, we've got some aspects of the military, air force lift assets. especially operations units army and marine light infantry forces that are on their fourth, fifth, sixth combat tours. we've had 48,000 killed and wounded. we spent a trillion dollars on these wars. it's tough. we got the smallest navy in our history darn near now. having said that, look, libya is not exactly taking on the veramox. what we've done so far is pretty effectively done. >> general mccaffrey on that note. thank you very much. andrea, thank you. >> andrea has a show at 1:00. >> andrea, can you stay? >> sure. >> one-year anniversary of the health care bill is coming up. we'll be joined by robert menendez and john barrasso to talk about what's next. first, reverend al sharpton is standing by in our green room. there's roger bennett. >> roger! >> keep it right here on "morning joe." ♪ [ folk pop ] [ man ] ♪ if you got worries then you're like me ♪ ♪ don't worry now i won't hurt you ♪ ♪ and if you got worries then you're like me ♪ ♪ don't worry now i won't desert you ♪ ♪ [ continues ] [ announcer ] when it comes to the things you care about, leave nothing to chance. travelers. insurance for auto and home. call or click now for an agent or quote. tough being the only girl. aw, there's the man of the house. who's this ? 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[ man ] spring is finally here. lease a 2011 legacy 2.5i for $199 a month, now through march 31. 35 past the hour. new york city for you, a look at a rainy times square. there are new troubles in the stricken fukushima nuclear plan the where workers were evacuated today after gray smoke was seen rising from one of its reactors. officials estimate the death toll from this month's earthquake and tsunami will exceed 18,000. and the world bank says japan may need five years to rebuild. in a rare story of survival, an 80-year-old japanese woman and her teenage grandson were rescued from their flattened home yesterday, nine days after the country's twin disasters. the 16-year-old boy reportedly called for help and led rescuers to his grandmother who has trouble walking. both were weak but survived on food from their refrigerator. the german news magazine "der spiegel" published two photograph photograp photographs. it's unclear how the magazine obtained the photos. in a statement, the army called the actions depicted in the photo repugnant and contrary to its val use. up next, the reverend al sharpton is on set. we'll be back with much more on "morning joe." capital one has asked yours truly to talk about the venture card "match my miles" challenge. they're so confident their miles are better, they'll match the miles you've earned on your airline credit card -- up to 100,000 -- on a new venture card. it's unbelievable. believe it. venture card miles are good on any airline, anytime. it's like an upgrade from this... to this. sign up for a venture card at capitalone.com today and get up to 100,000 miles. what's in your wallet? impressive, right? but sometimes i wonder... what's left behind? 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[ female announcer ] new purifying facial cleanser from the new line of neutrogena naturals. zblinchs understand why war is not popular but i also know this, the belief that peace is desirable is rarely enough to achieve it. peace requires responsibility. peace entails sacrifice. that's why nato continues to be indispensable. >> welcome back to "morning joe," 40 past the hour. that was president obama accepting the nobel peace prize in 2009, a controversial decision at the time. considering the united states was engaged in two wars. the libya offensive now puts u.s. armed conflicts with a muslim nation at three. we have andrea mitchell still with us in washington. and joining us now, we have the president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton. thanks very much, reverend al, for joining us. >> good morning. >> look at this comment that tavis smily posted on twitter. he said this is the problem with prematurely giving the nobel peace prize to a war president. let's pray for peace. >> i think that the issue back then was -- his strategy in afghanistan actually ramping up. the issue now libya. at the same time, what's he supposed to do? >> well, i think that if you listen to the clip of what the president said, when he was accepting the nobel prize, he said that you can't just call for peace without doing things that would establish peace. so i don't see if in fact, if the mission is to protect the citizens of libya against the attacks of the head of state there, gadhafi, then you can make an argument that he's consistent with what he said president obama, in his nobel acceptance. if it escalates beyond that and we do see, you know, ground troops and a full-fledged war, then you can raise it. i think it's premature to go beyond what he said when he made the acceptance speech. at this point i don't see where he's gone beyond that. >> andrea mitchell, there has been criticism that the president waited too long before he took action in libya and he made it clear, gadhafi must go. we have now action that's not going called war and an attempt that's not being called an attempt to bring down gadhafi. what's happening? what is our foreign policy? >> i think the end game of this mission is still unclear, according to critics, at least. it's unclear to me from talking to officials that they expect at the end gadhafi will be gone. they are hoping this take place because they have so isolated and pressured him, in this tribal culture, the inner circle will start abandoning him and take them out themselves. that is the hope, that is t is an inside game, that it does not require an outside game. there's no denying that they expect, contrary to what they say publicly, gadhafi to be gone. for him to remain after all of this would be unacceptable and intolerable. >> wa is the strategy, andrea, to saying one thing about our intent but us knowing that perhaps our intent is to bring gadhafi down? i don't understand. for example, senator kerry or admiral mike mullen on "meet the press" yesterday, we're at at war and we're not attempting to bring down moammar gadhafi. >> it depends on what your definition of is is or plausible deniability. in diplomacy you have a u.n. resolution. they say they are sticking to the letter of it. that is what has enabled them to get arab support, which is critical to this. i think what some might argue has not been thought through clearly enough is what secretary clinton was initially raising. who are these rebels? what would replace gadhafi when he is he gone? >> what do you make of the precedent that the president of the united states has now set by saying we need continuer it veen in these cases where people are being beaten down, killed in the streets by their leaders, gadhafi being the one in this case. does he now set himself up for the next time we get news flashes about people being killed in sudan, darfur, places like that, why wouldn't we have to go in there? >> i think it's a hard question that will have to be answered. and a lot of us are going to watch and see what he says today. the interesting thing is, i did go to sudan and wished the government had intervened. >> i know you d. i went to rwanda and wanted to see the government intervene. a lot of the problem is, even those that consider ourselves left of center that say we need the consistency, have wanted to reintervention in sudan and rwanda. how do you energy the same point? i remember when president obama was a senator and i was at a rally about sudan that he spoke at. i think there will have to be a definitive way we see, this is where we come in and where we don't. i'm hearing from the obama administration, they came in with allies in the arab league and other forces. this was not unilateral. >> that's the difference. mike barnicle. >> what do we do about the fact, reverend, i would submit it as a fact, if you walk around your neighborhood or my neighborhood, and ask people who are the top five concerns? it won't be libya, afghanistan, it won't be the sudan, rwanda. it will be the economy, jobs, education. and all of that, unfortunately, has been put on the back burner because of our foreign interventions. >> no question about it. when i went to our weekly neighborhood action rally saturday, i had a great speech willie helped me with on japan and the fallout and libya, people wanted to know about jobs, jobs, jobs, education, jobs. i think we have to be responsible enough to show how jobs are impacted by what goes on in terms of oil prices and what goes on in terms of the global economy and japan and the fallout now, we're hearing from japanese businesses, but you've got to make that link. people don't always take the time to make that link. they want to know what's going on immediately. i think that we have real problems that are now being overwhelmed by a lot of the global coverage of these things, not to minimize what they are but to say there's a lot of problems out here. >> reverend al, stay with us. andrea, thanks for sticking around. who do you have on your show today at 1:00. we have senator lugar and senator webb and ed markey. >> i like that. lugar, webb and markey. not bad. 1:00, msnbc, 1:00 eastern time. andrea mitchell, thank you so much. >> thank you. coming up april the top of the hour, dan senor. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. 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[ female announcer ] join by april 9th and get two weeks free. weight watchers new pointsplus. because it works. hey, welcome back to "morning joe." espn soccer analyst roger bennett -- >> across the country people want johnny rotten on the show. >> he's coming up next to talk about topics americans have no interest in. but it's your turn now. begin with a dismal match for 75 minutes but a match that ended well for joey scarborough, chelsea and man city. >> it used to be in the olden days billionaires would have a ferrari key fob to shake. for all the money on display, it was very disappointing but this is the new face. looks like side show bob. rarely has a player made such an instant impact. >> and as joey scarborough points out, he has now scored two more goals than fernando torey. >> a great move. manchester city, an absolute money pit for the city. >> if you want to impress your soccer fans just say this -- brazilians sure do know how to play soccer. and they do. the brazilians came through for chelsea yesterday. now, liverpool. >> john henry was there as the red socks continue their stroll for the english premier league. that's jay spearing, a grown man with the face of a colicky baby. referee gave him a helping hand, then called it a penalty. >> it was a bad call but this next goal, hopefully we have the goal lined up. here it is. >> you remember luis suarez, he became the most hated man during the world cup. all teeth that man. he looks a bit like a young anne hathaway. >> liverpool has gotten 19 of 24 points in there. this man has been injured for months because he fell off a barstool in a casino at 5:00 a.m. when he was drunk. >> he looked horrible yesterday. >> it happens. >> 38 million pounds, which is like 50 million american dollars. >> he's a big drinker though. >> aren't we all. >> he's a troubled man. they invest in a troubled man. wasn't he the one that did the hitler salute the first week? >> stop. >> his teammate -- he's got new influences at liverpool. >> you lost everyone. >> i can just say though, reverend al sharpton said to me beforehand my heart was broken yesterday when manchester united scored in the end. >> i can barely get through my sunday sermon. >> this is america's number one player, stuart holden was knocked out for the rest of the season, he's been the most improved player of the season. little bit of kung fu fighting here. he tweeted that he needed 26 stitches, a fracture. he'll be resting for the next six months. >> doesn't look natural to me. >> that's an american star who has been one of the players of the season. few players smoke 20 cigarettes a day and play so feverishly. manchester united win ugly, chelsea still to play at the united, to play arsenal. the title run-in is going to be very -- >> is there any chance for liverpool to get in the final four? >> well, they could possibly come back but john henry, the boston red sox analyst, was charming the english press. they think he's naive, they think he's innocent. they hammered him in the media. he turned around and said everything in liverpool happens behind closed doors. it is the english way. he threw english tradition into the face of the english press and they laughed. >> roger bennett, thank you so much. >> england playing wales, america plays argentina at the meadowlands. >> it is going to be great. willie, this has been illuminating. >> reverend sharpton's been blinking morse code at me, "get me out of here." the council on foreign relations dan senor joins us on set next. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." [ female announcer ] sometimes you need tomorrow to finish what you started today. for the aches and sleeplessness in between, there's motrin pm. no other medicine, not even advil pm, is more effective for pain and sleeplessness. motrin pm. is more effective for pain and sleeplessness. but you can still refinance to a fixed rate as low as 4.75% at lendingtree.com. plus, get the best deal or we'll pay you $1,000. call lending tree at... today. we expected in a matter of days to be able to turn over the primary responsibility to others. we will continue to support the coalition. we will be a member of the coalition, we will have a military role in the coalition but we will not have the preeminent role. >> good morning, it is 8:00 on the east coast. spring season off to a chilly start in manhattan. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set, msnbc and "time" magazine senior political analyst mark halperin. >> he's great. >> we also have once again back with us this morning, adjunct senior fellow for middle eastern studies on the council for foreign relations, dan senor. the big story of course, libya. i think "the new york times" headline is the big question -- target clear, intent is not. >> it says it all. really. >> what is the intent? are we at war, dan? >> we're basically at war. >> oh. basically. that seems to be in dispute now. >> a civil war. >> yeah, we're taking sides in a civil war. for the last three weeks we said gadhafi had to go but hadn't formally taken sides. as of this weekend we've taken sides and the objective is removing gadhafi. >> no, that's not the objective. >> there may be ambiguity but -- in how they're articulating the objective but if gadhafi is still in power and military operations end, the war will view this as a failed intervention. >> not only that, you have once again antagonized in the greatest of ways a man who has already committed acts of terror against the united states. pan am flight 103, and will use his oil money to exact revenge on us. so for all of those who are so eager to engauge in a no-fly zone, like they were playing a video game be, and then the natural consequences that would come from that which pat buchanan warned about from the very beginning, well, they wake up monday morning and they have gotten exactly what they have wanted and exactly what a lot of people have feared. >> mark halperin, the objective is not to get rid of gadhafi which is confusing because if the objective is humanitarian, then there is a double standard we need to address as well. is there not? >> the stated objective is not to get rid of him but the double standard is what's the most concerning and should be for a lot of people not just on capitol hill but hopefully in a national debate. because if anywhere a leader or government is doing bad things to the people, the united states is going to lead a coalition to intervene. we got a lot of work to do. what about china? >> that's what's so ridiculous. is in the middle of these crises when it suits some people's agenda, they will say, oh, we have to go and rescue a suffering people. you know, you got about 100 countries to do that in and this is once again, willie geist -- then we'll go to news -- we have a lot to catch people up with -- this is once again the united states getting engaged in yet another war. third war in a muslim country. >> i was struck over the weekend by words that could come back to haunt people. president obama when he was speaking making this point that we need to intervene on behalf of people who are being put down by their leaders in humanitarian crises, that opens the door to a world full of those possibilities. also yesterday bob gates saying we'll be done in a matter of days? might be careful with that. >> any liberal that beats his or her chest regarding iraq right now, that is using the moral argument we have to go in and help people -- i'm sorry, you want to stack up how many people gadhafi has killed versus how many people saddam hussein has killed? it's not a close call. so we need to be very careful with these hypocritical arguments that people are forwarding. >> the game changer though the arab league and gulf states being on-board here. >> for now. the arab league -- the arab league will probably back off by the next -- over the next couple of days. american military officials are claiming initial success in isolating moammar gadhafi's regime after a weekend of punishing allied air attacks in libya. according to u.s. officials, coalition strikes have successfully crippled gadhafi's air defenses and a no-fly zone is effectively in place over the country. although gadhafi himself is not a target of what is being called operation odyssey dawn, one of the strikes caused extensive damage to the libyan leader's tripoli compound last night. at this hour, gadhafi's whereabouts remain unknown but he has vowed to fight a long, drawn-out war with western forces. making the rounds on the sunday talk shows, admiral mike mullen stressed that the u.s. role in libya would be limited but he did not give an exact date of how long the u.s. would remain involved. >> there's no one that understands better than i the stress and the strain that we've been under for a long time in our tenth year of war, both in iraq and in afghanistan. that said, we are within our capability and capacity to be able to execute this mission. at direction's been given to me, it is limited. it is very focused. and in that regard, we're more than able -- as has been shown in the last 24 hours -- to carry it out and carry it out very effectively. expectations are that we will continue to support the mission particularly with unique capabilities that we have, which would include intelligence support, jamming capabilities, and focus on the continued enforcement of the no-fly zone and the mission overall. but i don't have an exact date in mind and i don't -- i haven't been given a date by the president where u.s. military participation here would end. >> asked about the end game in libya, mullen said there was a chance gadhafi could stay in power. >> certainly the goals of this campaign right now again are limited and it isn't about seeing him go, it's about supporting the united nations resolution which talked to limiting or eliminating the -- his ability to kill his own people, as well as support the humanitarian efforts. >> so the mission can be accomplished and gadhafi could remain in pow per. >> that's certainly potentially one outcome. >> dan senor, if moammar gadhafi survives, then this is the libya that we have, split down the middle, an eastern libya with a capital of benghazi supported by the west, and a western libya with tripoli as the capital supported by russia and china getting all of their oil, while moammar gadhafi is free to launch terror attacks against the united states for as long as he lives. and he will. he will use that oil money to kill americans. we're not at a point now since the line has been crossed where he can survive in power, are we? >> no. and what that will look like is human catastrophe, revenge killings, crackdown, refugee crisis in the region, hundreds of thousands of libyans pouring over other countries' borders. this will be a war that effectively the war will see as obama lost. right? the president said three weeks ago, gadhafi must go. and here's a country that -- the entire country is the size of baghdad. its military is about 50,000 people. 90% of the population is on the water, has access to the mediterranean. the middle east and north africa and iran view this as a relatively easy, quote, unquote, military operation. if america can't do this, if america leaves gadhafi in power, america will look weaker in the region and i assure you other countries like iran will have serious questions about our ability to do -- >> gadhafi must go was said many times by this president, yet this mission is not intent on bringing him down so i guess the question -- >> let's just break that fiction right now. that is a fiction. could they not know, mark halperin, inside the white house that they have to drive him from power now for the reasons i stated, because if he stays in power, we've got a very angry man with oil money who will use it to kill americans on u.s. soil? because all of these people that wanted to rush in and said, oh, we have to go in and start a war with a third muslim power, this is what they have set loose. >> i agree. at this point there is no other alternative. there's no outcome that's acceptable for america's interests in the region but it is not a sure thing that he can be driven from power, or that if he is driven from power that the vacuum that's left will work to america's advantage. it is a dangerous line that's been crossed, but it's been crossed. >> so the intent is humanitarian then. the intent is to stop these people from killing their own people. what then makes us different -- our choices in libya than from bahrain? or other countries? >> well, look. i want to say also though, in sudan, on the same continent, in the 1990s, there were 2 million sudanese that were murdered in a barbaric civil war and the united states didn't send any troops there. 2 million. >> right, so -- >> so at the same time we were so horrified by what was going on in the balkans, where maybe tens of thousands of people were being killed -- not 2 million -- that we went ahead and sent troops in to the balkans. i would suggest because it felt good and because it was in europe and not africa. the double standard in u.s. foreign policy is staggering. >> what's it about? >> no, no, there's always been throughout the history of u.s. foreign policy this double standard. just because america doesn't go about making the world perfect doesn't mean we shouldn't where we can pick our spots and make it better. >> why are we picking this spot? >> the politics or the official reason? >> the real reason. the truth. >> look, if you look at the people who won the intraadministration battle, hillary clinton, susan rice, samantha power, they are all focused on genocidal issues. clinton was obviously tied to the clinton administration. susan rice worked on africa issues during the clinton administration. what's one of their greatest regrets? turning a blind eye to rwanda. you look at someone like samantha power who's been deeply immersed in issues of genocide and human catastrophe -- and i think they won the day over gates, brennan who were deeply opposed to this mission. >> so we go now to china? >> no. i'm not suggesting that -- >> i'm just wondering. is samantha power suggesting we should go to china? >> she might suggest that. i'm not saying that's in u.s. foreign policy. >> i'm saying this is staggering that this is foreign policy. this is as -- as "financial times" article suggested, this is foreign policy policy based on emotion rather than strategy. >> as strategic matter, as a strategic matter, if you had human catastrophe in the heart of north africa, refugee crisis flowing out of libya, it would have enormous destabilizing effects in what's already a very brittle and potentially volatile region right now in the heart of the region that america has tremendous interests. so libya imploding and having hundreds of thousands of people slaughtered would actually be a serious strategic setback for the united states. >> are you sure that would have happened here? >> joe, listen to this. it is always easier to make the case against military action and talk about the costs of military action than it is the costs of military inaction. making the case based on the cost of military inaction is always a subjective argument and that's what we have to do here an we have to do that over and over and over again. >> yet we always have people who have never worn uniforms before deciding that it is time to go in, mark halperin. i'm reminded of the battle between colin powell and madelyn albright. madelyn albright said her first instinct is to always go in colin powell who was in vietnam and lost a lot of friends says his first instinct to stay out. for some reason in washington, d.c. these days over the past 20 years the instinct has always been, madelyn albright's instinct -- go in. and then worry later about the consequenc consequences. >> i'm not attributing motives there. there is a lot of focus on kw b libya. it is distracting us from what's going on in bahrain, what's going on in syria where repressive governments are cracking down on peaceful dissent with violence in some cases death. >> we're not going to act there. right? >> the u.s. isn't going to act there but the debate is not even being engaged. the military action in bahrain on the side of the military protesters? inconceivable. intervention on behalf of protesters in syria is inconceivable because of the power of the syrian government and popularity with some other forces in the region. this is the easy one to do military intervention. that's -- >> that's the news also we need to be talking about over the next couple hours. willie, over the weekend, syria exploded. this has been one of the most repressive regimes. boy, if you look at the situation on the ground there, so many parallels to egypt. and now even syria is starting to explode. >> add yemen to that list. the slaughter in the streets of yemen, the government shooting its own people. >> i'm sure we'll be there, right? >> does samantha powers suggest we go into yemen? >> that's important to her. >> if she is, she's going to have to write another book and talk about the killing in yemen. >> no, i'm serious. let's just talk about what this really is about. i don't like the -- >> our troops are not being sent in yet. our troops are not on the ground. i think it is inevitable that we will be on the ground but our troops will be on ground in libya in some way even if they're just intelligence and special operations forces that will need to cooperate with the opposition but this is not going to be -- >> this will be third muslim nation -- that's good. up next, two senators from the foreign relations committee will be here on set. also after years of legal experience and research, dan abrams explains why women are simply better than men on everything from driving and gambling to running a hedge fund. >> i'm not buying that. but first, here's your -- you know what? they're not good at getting paid equally, that's for sure so we're going to have to address that. >> willie, can you get the violin? >> this makes no sense. this study means nothing. of course a man's coming up with it. first here's your work week forecast with bill karins. >> good morning. just going to avoid this topic. we had the rain, the thunderstorms, you knew the delays were not far behind. ampts are starting to get backed up a little bit. one-hour delays in baltimore, 45-minute delays right now at laguardia. these will probably build a little bit. the green on the radar is the rain. thunderstorms are now pushing through the delmarva area, chesapeake bay. the white is snow. it is snowing in northern new jersey and upstate new york. d.c. you're just about done. you've only got another 15 minutes of some light rain. all the heavier stuff has pushed off to your east. further up to the north though, philadelphia still has steady rain, heavy rain in central jersey and that white is snow in northern jersey. getting some reports now it's accumulating snow, too. so welcome to spring. all of this white on the map from the hudson valley north into albany, new york, this is all snow that's falling. it is a heavy wet snow that will stick to the trees. roads hopefully won't be too bad. be careful out there for your morning drive. heaviest snows all through northern new england as we go throughout the day today. the rest of the country relatively quiet compared to this mess. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. we're with you when you're saving for your dreams. 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[ male announcer ] wells fargo. together we'll go far. there are also questions about the double standard here, why do we make a move on libya, and yet in bahrain where saudis send troops in to help a monarchy we stand back? >> well again, this mission is very focused on libya and we're paying a lot of attention to what's going on in bahrain and in the persian gulf as well. and the other thing is, each one of these countries i think is different. we've got one of our main naval bases are there and we're working hard to support that in a way to certainly see a peaceful outcome there in terms of how it evolves when the bahraini people are asking for change as well. welcome back to "morning joe." with us on the set, republican senator from wyoming, senator john barrasso and democratic senator from new jersey, senator robert menendez. the senators are both members of the senate foreign relations committee and -- >> good day to have you both in. >> senator, you're chairman. both of are you chairmen. said over the weekend, "we are not at war with libya." is that a message you take to the people in new jersey? because it looks like war to us. >> well, what we are doing is pursuing a u.n. humanitarian mission to make sure that innocents aren't slaughtered. >> now that involves military action. to the extent you have military action, one might define it as war but at the end of the day -- >> do you define it as war? are we at war with libya? >> i define it we are actually in a military action to make sure that the -- those who are seeking their freedom with the wherewithal to do so and not be slaughtered by gadhafi at the end of the day. >> so you support this mission? >> oh, yeah. i sponsored the senate resolution joined by my colleague from illinois, republican senator from illinois together and the senate supported the resolution to say let's call for a no-fly zone. >> senator, what do you say to your constituents in wyoming who see the united states's stretch in afghanistan and in iraq and now going in to libya as well? >> with regard to libya we say what's the goal, what is our role. >> what is the goal? >> good. we were trying to figure that out. >> "new york times" says target is clear, intent is not. the "times" has it right. what is our intention? >> the president has said different things. one time he said that gadhafi is not -- he has to go, can't rule. although the president said we're not going to go and try to take him out. admiral mullens said the same thing, saying he didn't know exactly how it was going to end, would they go after gadhafi, would they not, who's in charge, is this war by committee. that's what the concerns are and that's what the people of wyoming want. we have brave men and women from wyoming in afghanistan, iraq and kuwait and will be involved in this as well if asked to serve. >> do you agree with the president that gadhafi has to go? >> i certainly think that the guy who ultimately ordered the pan am 103 bombing in which hundreds of americans, including many from new jersey, died, that someone who has mustard seed gas and while we have tried to work during this period of time to reduce his weapons of mass destruction is capable of using it, someone who is using -- >> this is a "yes," right? >> what i'm saying, joe. do you want him to stay? i don't want him to stay. the difference is how one effectuates that goal. this i in this case it is about giving those -- >> when your constituents say at the next town hall meeting, hey, let's stop spending billions of dollars blowing up other countries and start rebuilding new jersey or start rebuilding wyoming. we're spending $2 billion a week in afghanistan, an untold number in iraq, and now i think we've already spent well over $100 million with missiles in libya. when do we start spending that money in new jersey? when do we start spending that money in wyoming? >> as someone who voted against the war in iraq, i can tell you i'm all for drawing down there. i'm also for changing our mission in afghanistan. i'm also taking $35 billion in tax benefits to the oil industry that is making record profits and returning it back to our own needs here in the united states. there's a lot of different -- >> tripling the number of troops in afghanistan, were you against that? were you against the president's plan to triple the number of troops? >> i am of the view that instead of a counterinsurgency effort, we need a counterterrorism effort and those are two different fine mix. >> exactly. >> senator, let me ask you, then mika, i'll turn it over to you. senator, i keep bringing up wyoming because i know wyoming constituents think a lot -- i talked to them -- they think a lot like northwest florida constituents when it comes to u.s. involvement overseas. at some point they say enough, let's focus on the united states and stop fighting wars across the globe. at what point do wyoming residents get fed up with spending all in money overseas? >> wyoming people balance our budget every year. they're concerned the president isn't leading in other areas such as balancing the budget. i was 1 of 64 members of the senate. that's enough to pass anything, 32 republicans, 32 democrats had said to the president it's time to engage, mr. president, on the budget, on the debt, on the -- what's coming up with the -- >> what about the pentagon budget? do we need to cut the pentagon budget? >> there is waste all across this government. we are spending money we don't have. so much of it is borrowed from the chinese. 41 cents of every dollar we spent last year was borrowed money. people in wyoming do not like that at all. >> are you supportive of military action in libya and would you call it war? >> it sure looks like that's what's happening. the president said no troops on the ground. we'll see what happens. i get concerned about any sort of mission creek, where are we today, it hasn't been defined. the president has said this is going to be very short. so did the secretary of defense. let's see. lots of things are supposed to be short, then they turn into weeks and months and you want to go in and say what's next? how do you get out of here? i haven't heard that answer yet from the president or from the secretary. >> what's interesting, some of the strongest republican voices, like senator john mccain, have said that we waited too long. i mean so you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. i'm sure if we had allowed the continuous slaughter of innocents many of our republican colleagues would be saying the president should have acted. so we are acting here in concert with a series of other countries under a u.n. resolution, and so far, i'm glad to see for the first time that the french, for example, and the british, are largely leading the way. and so i think. >> by the way, the arab league also stepping in last week. i think the president handled it very well up until this weekend and like barney frank i'm a little concerned about the fact that the united states may get pushed out in front again. >> and also, is what you just said, given the fact that we have the support of the arab league and the gulf states, does that then discount the double standard that some may say exists when it has to do with yemen and bahrain? i mean why aren't we -- >> i think the magnitude of what was happening in libya was compelling. now i don't condone -- actually, i condemn what's happening in the other countries that you mentioned but there is a difference in magnitude. at least at this point in time. >> so you guys came on to talk about health care. >> i didn't, but i'm happy to talk about it. >> the good doctor always wants to talk about -- the good doctor cares about my help. >> so a year later, a year later, how is health care reform going? >> more unpopular than ever. more people oppose this health care law and want it repealed than they have for the last ten months. as nancy pelosi said, first you have to pass it before you get to find out what's in it as people are finding out what's in it. >> you do agree we need to reform health care. we spend more money than any other country. >> people want the care they need from the doctor that they want at a cost they can afford and none of those things have -- >> i want to live forever. we can't do that. we can't give everybody what they want though. >> the care they need, they actually need, the doctor they want at a price they can afford and the president's promises on all three of those have been broken. >> so what is the republican plan to slow down the massive cost. >> you've got to focus on the cost, make it legal are -- one is let states opt out. lindsay graham and i have a bill called the state health care choice act. 2 1/2 million americans, almost half of those union workers have been given a waiver that they don't have to live under this health care law. giving states the right to get in there and make decisions is going to save you money. letting states decide which components to live under, to not live under is going to save money. wyoming we know -- i was in the state senate there, worked on this issue there. we know that for medicaid we pay twice for the average person to get covered under medicaid as we did if we just gave them a blue cross/blue shield card. you can save half of the money right there. >> you still love the law and you're proud of it, but it's not as popular as you think it should be based on what's in the law. >> its popularity is rising, number one. >> where? >> will it be more popular by the time the president stands for re-election and why isn't it more popular? >> i think -- look. i think that if you have a pre-existing condition, you now know that the law is on your side. you can't be denied insurance anymore. if in fact you are a senior citizen and you have that gap in your coverage for prescription drugs, that gap is closed and -- >> why isn't it more popular? >> i think the more people know about the law they ultimately will love it. look, my own governor's using millions of dollars as a result of the law to help him meet his challenges in new jersey as oar governors throughout the country, both democratic and republican. either you wanted resources, changing the fact that you can't be denied pre-existing conditions, changing the fact that seniors now can afford their prescription drug coverage, and everything -- keeping your children on to age 25 -- >> what changes the dynamic? because it's been a year. you say eventually americans are going to get it. how do you change the dynamic so -- >> every poll, they say don't abolish it. everything the doctor referenced before that you want to have the health care you need with a doctor you want, as something that's affordable, that didn't exist before the law passed. we had double-digit premium increases every year. insurance companies arbitrarily and capriciously denying people coverage even when they had the coverage and paying for it? so in fact, we're moving in a different direction and that direction people i think will increasingly appreciate as they receive the benefits. >> let's ask the good doctor. you look at some polls, they say americans don't support health care reform. but the same poll shows americans don't want it overturned. >> americans are afraid that the costs are going to go up even though the president said they'd go down. they're afraid they're going to lose the care that they have even if they like it and that even the white house statistics say that. we need something that is actually patient-centered, not government-centered, not insurance company-centered. something that people -- >> happy birthday. >> and we're not getting that right now. >> by the way, senator engages in very unhealthy activity. doctor senator, he says he wakes up at 5:30, goes down to the senate gym, and people are watching willie geist way too early. then "morning joe." >> that's awfully early. >> you need your sleep. >> why are you doing that if you don't have to? >> people in wyoming are already up at that hour. they may call the office. >> good answer. thank you very much. >> thanks you both very much for being on the show this morning. can at&t buy its way to better service? >> i doubt it. >> what its bid for t-mobile means for that. business before the bell with erin burnett is next. 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[ male announcer ] and there you go, business pro. there you go. go national. go like a pro. live look at times square. time now for business before the bell. at&t making a play for its rival, t-mobile. let's go straight to cnbc's erin burnett live at new york stock exchange. erin. >> so here's why they think this deal makes sense. they both have the same sort of technology on their network, gsm. that's the big reason why this makes sense in terms of at&t and t-mobile. but big issue is going to be antitrust that's going to be -- actually this is going to be the first big test for the obama administration in terms of big business and big deals. this deal when you combine at&t with t-mobile is -- and then you combine -- then think about that market share plus the second-biggest mobile company which is verizon, they're going to have up to 80% of the market. companies like sprint are going to fight this fiercely. the fight back from at&t will be, well hey, in the big 20 cities in this country it is a real fight and we don't have that kind of market share so it is going to be a huge test for the obama administration. >> erin? >> yep. >> mike barnicle's here and he has a question. that's happened so rarely. >> he doesn't really clue in much. >> erin, how quickly do the people from sprint call ivan seidenberg from verizon. >> the people from sprint already have a statement out all up in arms about this deal. sprint's really the only other huge player out there. but then with verizon, then you're really going to have high cell phone bills. right? what's really interesting, joe, when you look at at&t's big problem in the public eye, it is service. right? i mean the dropped call problem. "consumer reports" at the end of last year looked at every category, data, customer service, voice, text, you name it. the worst in everyone was at&t and the second-worse in everyone was -- >> t-mobile? >> that's right. >> really! >> what do you get when you take a bad thing and put it with another bad thing, you get bigger, badder -- >> that's something. that's sort of the genius behind this show. >> verizon iphone networks nicely. >> do you have the verizon iphone yet? >> it is peaceful to end calls unexpectedly. >> verizon seriously, the difference -- our family switched over. joey told me yesterday he was on his ipad going from atlanta to tuscaloosa and at&t service wasn't working. he started to yell and he goes, oh wait a second, he got out the verizon iphone and it worked. erin, at what point do our good friends at at&t just put everything they have into building new towers? i mean this is a nightmare for them. >> it is. they can put up more towers. american tower. they could do that. they could invest even more in their network. there are things they could do. it would take time. they say they're doing them and that there's been improvements and in some markets there have been to give them fair credit. but overall, yeah, the perception is not a good one. >> like europe maybe. that might be a market where at&t works. >> they do overseas i've always said that. they're better. their partners overseas are their better than their rival's partners. i want to do a quick quiz for you all. we only hear about a few big mobile companies in this country but there is a lot you haven't heard of. what was the top ranked u.s. mobile provider in the country? by far the top ranked. it was not verizon. >> when was this? >> this was in december. about right now. >> i guess at&t. >> no. top ranked. >> top ranked. >> in terms of performance. >> i would just guess verizon. >> u.s. cellular. it's in 26 states. so there are some ones you haven't heard of that are gaining market share. u.s. cellular top ranked for voice, data, text and customer service. >> interesting. >> willie, quickly, we've got ten seconds. where is oil going today? >> it's going up. the no-fly zone for now not providing any respite for prices. we're at 102.84 for light sweet. >> final estion, erin burnett, what do the kids all over the world call you? let me answer this one -- international superstar. international superstar, erin burnett! thank you so much. >> thank you. >> always great seeing you. our next guest argues that women are better drivers, gamblers and newscasters. >> well, yeah. what am i supposed to say to that? >> dan abrams, a man, next on "morning joe." >> of course a plan. [ sneezes ] allergies? you think i have allergies? you're sneezing. i'm allergic to you. doubtful, you love me. hey, you can't take allegra with fruit juice. what? yeah, it's on the label. really? here, there's nothing about juice on the zyrtec® label. what? labels are meant to be read. i'd be lost without you. i knew you weren't allergic to me. [ sneezes ] you know, you can't take allegra with orange juice. both: really? fyi. [ male announcer ] get zyrtec®'s proven allergy relief and love the air®. you married? >> i am not. >> you had you had. joining us now, the founder -- >> away we go -- >> "man down," author of the new book "man down," proof beyond a reasonable doubt that women are better cops, drivers, c gambler beer tasters, and just about everything else. >> of course it is not true but i love it. >> it is all studies in research, joe. it is not my musings. it is all research. >> make your case right now to the jury opening statement, why are women so much better than men? >> on the whole? of the studies and research show that women tend to be more deliberati deliberative, more thoughtful, men tend to wing it more, men tend to be more prone to taking risks which in some case is going to be an advantage but when you look at the sort of sew talent of a lot of important jobs, everything from investors, hedge fund managers, doctors, loan officers, et cetera, world leaders -- there is a new study out that shows female politicians from 1981 to 2009, they studied every bill that was passed in the united states. female politicians were more effective in getting bills passed, getting more money for their constituencies and more popular bills. >> i can believe that, mika. what about you? >> i'm just -- >> mika's enjoying the book. >> women are smarter, have better memories, better investors, better at faking attraction -- >> yes! mike barnicle, you know about that, as do i. >> better citizens -- yeah. >> let mike ask a question. >> i have to tell you, i have no quarrel with almost everything that's in this book having gone through it, having skimmed it. i think its -- >> women are better readers, too. >> you know, you can bring the book with you to restaurants and it is great to meet women. but in the end, this chapter 10, women get ready faster than men. >> oh, come on! that's a lie! that's a lie! men spent an average of 23 minutes in the shower? >> yeah. look. >> i don't even shower. >> exactly! >> i think this included post-sort of drying off, et cetera. i think it meant referring to the entirety of the shower experience but with that said, this is -- you've picked what is arguably the weakest study. this is 2,000 people interviewed in britain by the second biggest drug company out there. they asked the men and women how long they take to get ready, meaning everything involved in the getting ready process. men took on average four minutes longer than did women, according to the study. but even in the book i say that this is, of all the studies in the book, this is the one i'm probably least persuaded by. >> is this the book you bring when you go to a bar? "hi, i'm dan abrams." >> the only reason i would take it to a bar, this is the best picture that's ever been taken of me in my life. >> we'll have the woman ask a question since women do everything better. >> mercy! really. that's fabulous. i am just wondering, why then -- and i look into this in the book i'm looking at, writing for the spring, why then don't we get paid as much as men? what's the point? we're better at everything. that's great. i knew that. but -- >> two reasons. number one, because there are more single parents who are women and as a result they tend to take lower paying jobs because they have another full time job at home. significant disparity between the number of single parents between men and women. the other thing is sexism. the bottom line is only 3% of the hedge fund managers in the world are women, and yet you look at the studies -- studies are clear around the women are doing better than the men as hedge fund managers. yet there are only 3% of them around the world. that doesn't make a lot of sense. >> we need do better for ourselves. actually we could bring this to a few job interviews and also negotiations. >> what is a competitive eater? the nation's hot dog contest? >> they have these like contests -- >> we're not stupid enough to participate in that contest, are we? >> you're making this up. >> there is effectively the decathlon of competitive eating. not the nathan's. >> by the way, they made me stop competing because i always won. >> a woman holds the title. this is despite the fact that women are significantly less represented in the area of competitive eating. after all most women -- most people don't think of that as a particularly attract of thing. >> but if they do, they do it well. >> there are also studies that back up women are better at monitoring their competitors. >> mika, what's he doing? >> you know what he's doing -- >> i would think a weighty show like this one, that deals with the most important issues of the day, everyone always says, well, you know, "morning joe," that's the place to go for the news. >> by the way, you're selling a lot of books right now. >> well i'm hoping! i want to know why you guys are focused on the most trivial parts of the book. >> this is to tie it in to the issues of the day. it is not trivial. women are more dispassionate, more logical, more compassionate. yet over the weekend we find out that samantha powers, susan rice played an inordinate role in leaning toward active involvement bombing in libya. women. >> yep. no, look. there's no question that you can't sort of -- >> that's a stretch. >> you can't isolate -- no, people talk about world leaders. they always say there's margaret thatcher or golda meir or whoever it is. they pull out these very random important female leaders. this book looks at the totality of the numbers, meaning women are less corruptible. 93 legislatures around the world were looked at. the legislatures with with more women were less corrupt. >> why did you write the book? >> it was by accident. honestly, i had not planned on writing this book. i had not said, oh, my goodness, i'm going to do this book. i happened upon an article a while back that basically said -- i didn't believe a lot of stuff in the article. i was like, come on. i went and looked at some of the research, some was true, some wasn't. i got interested. i started looking at other studies. i said someone must have put this all together in one place and they hadn't done it. i thought this would be much more credible coming from a guy than a woman. >> here's some significant chapters. women handle failed relationships better. quickly. why is that? >> because they have more of a community of other women -- other friends. men tend to rely on their partner and they give up their friends. women keep their friends so when a break-up occurs, women can turn to their friends. >> women tolerate pain better. >> that's pretty clear. including in the military. study showed that women in the military complain less per capita about pain than do men. look, women endure main throughout their life times and as a result they deal with it better. >> fascinating. >> women are better citizens. >> that was sort of a whole they're better drivers, they wash their hands after they go to the bathroom more. three different studies showed that one. >> i like it. >> you want to hear something? men -- a sign in the bathroom that tells men to make sure they wash their hands they don't pay attention. but if it says wash it now or eat it later, the men wash their hands. the motorola xoom tablet. with the velocity of a 1-ghz dual core processor, 3-d graphics engine, gyroscope, and a widescreen hd display. grab it and it grabs you. only at verizon. ♪ you know how i feel i feel lighter than ever. i lost 52 pounds. ♪ and i'm feeling good [ janice ] weight watchers new pointsplus program gave me the edge to keep losing. ♪ it's a new day i have so much energy my kids can't keep up with me. ♪ and this old world is a new world ♪ ♪ in a bolder way i never thought i'd be a single digit size. i feel awesome. [ female announcer ] join by april 9th and get two weeks free. weight watchers new pointsplus. because it works. and get two weeks free. [ man ] ♪ trouble ♪ trouble, trouble trouble, trouble ♪ ♪ trouble been doggin' my soul ♪ since the day i was born ♪ worry ♪ oh, worry, worry worry, worry ♪ [ announcer ] when it comes to things you care about, leave nothing to chance. travelers. take the scary out of life. ♪ [ male announcer ] unrestrained. unexpected. and unlike any hybrid you have ever known. ♪ introducing the most fuel-efficient luxury car available. ♪ the radically new, 42 mile per gallon ct hybrid from lexus. ♪ welcome to the darker side of green. in an interview with abc, donald trump says it is strange nobody remembers president obama from childhood. of course, everyone remembers little trump because he was the little kid going welcome everyone to the trump sandbox and play area. this is the number one sandbox in the world. huge sand castles. please enjoy yourselves in the beautiful marble monkey bars. this is my beautiful girlfriend natasha. she's 2 1/2 years old. it's nap time, you're tired. here eyour business travel forecast. i'm meteorologist bill karins. busy start to our first day of spring. two storms, one on the west coast, one rolling through new england. now the high elevations of new england are going to get snow. we're also going to see rain moving through new york, philly and d.c., boston a wintry mix for you. on the west coast, more storms for l.a. and seattle. sovereign of the security line. you never take an upgrade for granted. and you rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. and go. you can even take a full-size or above. and still pay the mid-size price. i deserve this. [ male announcer ] you do, business pro. you do. go national. go like a pro. welcome back to "morning joe." it is time to do what we just love doing so much every day, talking about what we learned mike barnicle, what did you learn today? >> i learned that america waits for t-mobile and at&t to combine each of its operations so you have now a huge malfunctioning company. >> what did you figure out today? >> i learned that willie geist is not real ly into the final o the men's ncaa basketball tournament.

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